EXPLICIT LANGUAGE: Jill Kargman, Creator/Writer/Producer/Star of "Odd Mom Out"
[0:00]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and this is Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:15]As a mom of four kids in New York City and a writer myself, I know all too well how short
[0:19]everyone is on time, so I'm here to help.
[0:21]I'm going to interview authors and writers of all types about their work, especially as
[0:25]it relates to parenting and family issues.
[0:28]Hopefully you can listen while doing 8 million other things, and fall in love with these
[0:31]talented scribes and their fantastic books, essays, and songs like I have.
[0:35]Plus, get some tips on surviving parenthood.
[0:37]For more about me, you can check out my essays at Zibi Owens.com.
[0:42]This episode of Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books has been brought to you by Chloe's
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[0:48]You can check them out online at Chloe'sfruit.com.
[0:51]I'm here today with Jill Kargman.
[0:54]Jill is a native New Yorker, and is an insanely prolific writer.
[0:59]She's written multiple novels, two collections of essays and a children's book.
[1:03]Her most recent essay collection was titled Sprinkle Glitter on my Grave, observations,
[1:07]rants, and other uplifting thoughts about life.
[1:09]To some, Jill is most well known as the creator, writer, producer, and star of the show Odd
[1:13]Mom Out, a show about all the craziness of raising kids in New York, especially here on
[1:18]the Upper East Side where she lives now.
[1:20]So welcome to Jill.
[1:21]Thank you, Zibi.
[1:22]This is fun.
[1:24]So Odd Mom Out was an offshoot of your hilarious novel, Mom Zillis.
[1:28]I'm a native New Yorker and Upper East Side, too.
[1:31]What were the things about the Upper East Side that you were like, I totally have to
[1:34]write about this.
[1:35]I start, I feel like the second I shout out my kids, I started collecting anecdotes of
[1:39]just crazy shit that people would say to me that you can't write, such as my kind of
[1:44]patient zero, mom Zillis person was like, oh, my kid came out and got all tens on the
[1:50]Epgar scores.
[1:51]And I was like, doesn't that mean like your heart's beating?
[1:53]It's not your SATs.
[1:55]It's vital stats, you fucking weirdo, but she was bragging like the bar was already started.
[2:00]Someone had headphones on her belly at my guy nose office playing Mozart.
[2:06]And she said apparently they, you know, become smarter if you play Mozart in the womb.
[2:11]And I was like, dude, you're fucking crazy.
[2:13]Like, why don't you squat and poop out your kid first before you start getting competitive
[2:18]about your fetus.
[2:19]It was so psychotic, but I knew that this was going to be something that was going to either
[2:24]drive me nuts or make me laugh.
[2:27]And I sort of opted for the latter.
[2:29]That's awesome.
[2:30]So what was it like to realize that in New York, it's such a unique parenting situation?
[2:35]Well, I grew up here as, you know, many people, like you in the 80s.
[2:40]And so there was a conspicuous consumption, but I feel like there was more embarrassment
[2:44]of riches like a girl in my class at Spence would have her limo dropper off two blocks
[2:49]from school.
[2:50]And now they're like rolling up with the SUV and the driver and everyone's talking
[2:54]about wheels up in their homes.
[2:56]And that really worried me because that's, even though, you know, I wasn't that Gordon
[3:01]Gecko age, it wasn't like cool to talk about your golden goose is when you have like
[3:06]a size three shoe.
[3:07]And now these kids all have the trappings and the million dollar brought mitzvah's and I
[3:12]was worried about New York versus other places because I think that's maybe with the exception
[3:17]of LA like pretty exclusive to our city, where it's just so over the top.
[3:23]And when Ivy was about two years old, we were outside school and she was staring at all
[3:28]the moms who were really nicely dressed.
[3:30]It was like a catwalk at pickup.
[3:31]And she said, how come you're the only mom at school without red bottoms on your shoes?
[3:36]And I was like, wow, you're so observant, but then I was also horrified.
[3:40]And I realized, you know, I had to kind of explain very early to my kids.
[3:44]You know, they say like, it's never too young to talk about drugs.
[3:46]It's also for us never too young to talk about logos, conspicuous consumption, bragging,
[3:54]just sort of listing all these things.
[3:56]And some of them are so innocuous, like they don't know better, like some of the kids,
[4:01]but I had a little kid come to my house and we ordered sushi from like some join on
[4:05]first Avenue or whatever.
[4:06]And the kid took a bite and she goes, it's no hero.
[4:10]And I was just like, fuck you, little shit.
[4:12]But I said to my daughter after, at least I wasn't nobody.
[4:14]I know she didn't mean it.
[4:16]We went to in kindergarten and no boo sushi making party.
[4:19]Yeah.
[4:20]So, but I said to my friend to Ivy, I know your friend didn't mean it, but you know,
[4:24]that comes off as like very spoiled to compare it wherever you go.
[4:27]You just say, thank you so much.
[4:29]It's delicious, but I'm just obsessed with my kids never inadvertently or otherwise,
[4:34]like saying anything about anything that could be perceived as bragadocious.
[4:40]But they don't, you know, we don't go to the Hamptons we don't have a country house.
[4:43]So they don't, but that's come up like, why don't we have a country house?
[4:46]And I said, well, mommy doesn't drive and she hates the country.
[4:49]So, I mean, it's just different strokes, but I think these kids have to be really aware
[4:55]you have to bend over backwards to really pound the values into their skulls.
[5:00]Because otherwise just by immersion and osmosis, they go out with these kids who are, you
[5:05]know, cities almost 15 and people are like slapping down black cards.
[5:09]And I just said, that's not how this is going to go, you know, you're going to have
[5:12]a budget and this is not how some of your friends might operate.
[5:16]And then how did you go from observing all this to figuring out how to write about it
[5:20]in the best way?
[5:21]I don't know.
[5:22]I feel like because I kind of had one foot and one foot out, I was often a loner, mom.
[5:27]And I didn't have any friends with kids at first.
[5:30]Now all my best friends have kids, but they're younger.
[5:33]So when I had Sadie, I was the only one who had kids.
[5:38]And so I had, I had to just sort of like be the nerd in the corner and a lot of the people
[5:44]that I met came up together and like Lamas or law school or whatever the fuck.
[5:49]And so they had kind of a click mentality group thing and they had baby groups and they,
[5:54]and you know, I was just like had this kid on my hip and showed up and so I was just
[5:59]automatically, I've never been a wallflower for sure, but I would just, because I wasn't
[6:04]in their group.
[6:05]I would just observe and hear how the kids spoke to each other and I was kind of taking
[6:09]mental notes pretty quickly.
[6:13]And did you ever think?
[6:14]So you started it as Momsilla's, which was more, which was a novel form and he transitioned
[6:18]it to a show.
[6:19]What was it like doing the two different formats for the same type of material?
[6:23]It's such a great question.
[6:25]I found it so liberating in the interim, I had done the essays that you mentioned.
[6:29]And once I started, I couldn't stop.
[6:32]I now don't think I will ever do fiction books again.
[6:35]I don't mind writing for TV that way, but for books I feel like I was really just me hiding
[6:41]behind the characters and it's so much easier to just be me.
[6:45]You know, I don't have to say like, oh, this is this character's way of doing this.
[6:50]I can just like breathe it out.
[6:53]It's kind of clawing its way out of me and whereas the novels felt a little bit more
[6:57]like deadline driven work and this just, the essays came so naturally that by the time
[7:02]I got to TV, I already had that voice and I felt just so much freer being myself.
[7:07]I mean, that's the cool thing about turning 40, you just don't give a shit.
[7:12]I feel like some people are like, well, is that, is the character that Jill plays on the
[7:16]show Jill or is it a different version of her?
[7:19]Like, do you feel like that's you or do you feel like it's some sort of crafted version
[7:23]that you want to portray?
[7:25]It's a craft, it's me at 28.
[7:27]So I, Jill Weber in the show is way more stressed about like doing things a certain way
[7:34]or what people think like Jill me, I don't give a rat's ass.
[7:39]I do not care.
[7:41]When I was 28, it's not that I, I, you know, had come up and had this confident persona
[7:46]and I was very like strong in who I was and then I had a baby and it was like someone
[7:50]shook the etch of sketch and all of that went out the window because I felt really vulnerable
[7:55]because I had this new baby to take care of.
[7:58]I didn't, they don't come with a handbook.
[8:00]I didn't have any friends who were going through the same thing.
[8:03]I just didn't feel like, you know, if somebody did something to my kid, I would get so
[8:09]stressed.
[8:10]If one said anything about me, I didn't give a shit.
[8:12]But if like some little nose picker was rude to my kid, I wanted to like bash them.
[8:17]So it's, it's a huge recalibration in terms of being a mom and having that vulnerability
[8:22]again and having your kid judged applying a nursery school or kindergarten and just that
[8:27]whole feeling is so uneasy.
[8:30]But then as I got older, I just, I just didn't care.
[8:33]I felt like, okay, so what if they're taking meander in or they have like a sports
[8:36]coach?
[8:37]It's just not for our family.
[8:38]So we're very unconventional, you know, we do things our own way, but I don't give a shit.
[8:44]Whereas when I was 28, I definitely felt like, oh, they're all taking meander in, okay.
[8:49]Well, we're the lazy asses who aren't.
[8:52]Yeah.
[8:53]I remember when I was pregnant, everyone's like, well, are you not on the waitlist yet
[8:56]for free to be under three?
[8:58]Right.
[8:59]And the loser sensitive ponytail man.
[9:01]I'm already behind.
[9:02]I'm like behind.
[9:03]And I don't even have time.
[9:04]Someone said that to me too.
[9:05]And I thought it was like the dumbest, I didn't give a shit.
[9:07]And then I went to one of those parties and I was like, this is so stupid if I had spent
[9:11]all that money and time trying to bash into this.
[9:13]It's just like, you know, there's certain cultures where there'll be a line on the street
[9:17]and people just join the line.
[9:18]They don't know what it's for, but it must be good.
[9:21]I actually told, I do the opposite of that.
[9:24]Did you ever worry about sort of poking fun at the community that you're a part of?
[9:29]No, I feel like it's weird.
[9:31]I don't, I think of it as sort of poking fun satirizing, but it's also just kind of holding
[9:36]like a fun house mirror to it.
[9:38]And I think people, you know, when you look in a fun house mirror, you recognize yourself,
[9:42]you're warped, but you recognize yourself.
[9:44]And I think everyone has had a really good sense of humor about it.
[9:47]I've had people who give me high fives where I feel like they're kind of the worst
[9:51]defenders.
[9:52]Like their total Birk von Weber's and they're like, I love the show.
[9:55]I'm such a brook.
[9:56]Haha.
[9:57]And it's not that I was being, it's not.
[10:00]I mean, spirited show.
[10:01]I'm not trying to like do a take down of these women.
[10:03]I just, I found it kind of funny and cool
[10:05]that they had such a sense of humor about themselves.
[10:08]Or what's weird is they'll say,
[10:10]oh, I love how you portray so and so.
[10:12]And I'm like, that's not her, that's nobody.
[10:14]It's not even a composite.
[10:16]I just came up with this character,
[10:17]but it's a type that everyone recognizes
[10:20]even outside New York.
[10:21]I get emails and letters from all over the country,
[10:25]even in really small towns.
[10:27]And what's really interesting
[10:28]is that our community, you know,
[10:30]people live in these buildings.
[10:31]And so it's a little mysterious.
[10:33]You might know what a nice building is,
[10:35]but it's not the same thing as seeing
[10:36]like the huge white house with the pig of fence.
[10:39]And so in the rest of America,
[10:41]I think they're even more aware
[10:42]of those kinds of assets and trappings.
[10:45]And even worse, they have one school.
[10:48]They have one, you know, market
[10:50]and you have to see your mother-in-law every day.
[10:52]And it's just not the same anonymity
[10:54]that New York affords.
[10:56]Yeah, it's good to have the,
[10:58]I mean, does have some benefits.
[10:59]Yeah, for sure.
[11:01]How was it for you when you went
[11:02]from being a writer to being on air?
[11:05]And now you're this public persona?
[11:07]What was that like in your life?
[11:08]It was weird.
[11:09]It didn't matter at all to me.
[11:10]I didn't cheat, my life didn't change at all.
[11:12]Everyone always says like it must be so different now,
[11:14]but it's the exact same that it always was.
[11:17]Like more people will come up on the street,
[11:19]but it's not, I'm like the, for me,
[11:21]the perfect level of exposed.
[11:23]Like I don't have like, you know,
[11:26]people freaking out.
[11:27]I have like normal, cool people come up,
[11:29]gay guys or moms being like, I love the show
[11:31]and they're nice.
[11:32]They're not lunatics.
[11:34]So it's always people I feel like I would probably
[11:36]be friends with if I had more time.
[11:39]You know, it was just, it's a nice group.
[11:41]Like the show attracted cerebral funny people.
[11:45]And I always enjoy talking to people,
[11:47]even if they're like, you know,
[11:49]in a restaurant sometimes if I'm with my family
[11:52]they'll be like, I'm so sorry,
[11:53]but I actually still don't lie still like it.
[11:55]They're always nice people.
[11:56]They're always just like, I don't know.
[11:59]I think the right kind of values.
[12:01]So I never have had like a lunatic.
[12:04]Maybe a couple.
[12:05]How do you feel about the writing part of life
[12:08]versus the acting part of life?
[12:09]You were just mentioning.
[12:10]Well, actually, I really am just so in awe of Lena,
[12:14]done them because what they do is they,
[12:16]with girls, they had a concurrent writer's room.
[12:19]It started and then they started shooting.
[12:21]So she was doing both at the same time.
[12:22]I could never do that.
[12:24]I don't know how she did that.
[12:25]I don't have the bandwidth.
[12:26]I think I'm just like tired and old,
[12:29]but we had our writers room first for 10 weeks.
[12:32]So we wrote everything was fully done.
[12:35]Maybe there were some tweaks and there was like
[12:37]a punch up room with other writers that we brought in
[12:39]to like just throwing some jokes.
[12:41]And then we had production.
[12:43]So, you know, I was picking out like the bed spread
[12:47]or things that I wanted to get it right.
[12:48]Like quintessential upper-side.
[12:51]Little details and then we started shooting.
[12:54]So when I was acting, I was just acting.
[12:56]Sometimes I would go to the monitor
[12:58]to just like take a peek,
[12:59]but I had a showrunner in our last spots
[13:01]who was my life and my backbone.
[13:03]And she really, I trusted her completely.
[13:05]She grew up in New York,
[13:06]she's an upper-west side,
[13:07]but she gets the world.
[13:09]And so I knew I could just kind of have her run the show
[13:12]while I focused on memorizing my lines
[13:15]and kind of being in it.
[13:17]And that worked so well for me.
[13:20]I really enjoyed both equally.
[13:22]I don't know that I could do the concurrent thing.
[13:25]I think I would lose my shit.
[13:27]And is there ever gonna be like an odd month out movie?
[13:30]A lot of people have asked me that recently.
[13:32]I hadn't thought of it.
[13:33]I would love to do it if there are any investors listening.
[13:36]Yes, I would love to do that one day.
[13:39]But, you know, Bravo really took a risk
[13:42]of doing scripted comedy.
[13:43]It wasn't gonna be their plan,
[13:45]but we really hit it off.
[13:46]We developed it together.
[13:48]A lot of people say like, why isn't comedy central
[13:50]or HBO like wanting to shop it around?
[13:52]I said, I need to shop it around
[13:53]because they came to me.
[13:54]They wanted to like work on something
[13:57]and we really developed it together.
[13:59]And people always say, oh, development hell,
[14:01]like this was development heaven.
[14:02]It was just completing each other's sentences.
[14:04]And I felt like they totally got what I was trying to do
[14:08]and they let me do it.
[14:09]And it was really the Wild Wild West.
[14:11]I'm never gonna have that kind of freedom again.
[14:14]Otherwise, it's like they're just,
[14:15]you're noted to death, they're busting your balls.
[14:18]They don't want you to insult advertisers or curse.
[14:22]And I feel like I had this remarkable freedom
[14:24]that I probably will never have again.
[14:27]But yes, I would love to do a movie.
[14:29]And how do you feel about the show coming to an end?
[14:32]Devastated.
[14:32]When they said, you know, we really wanna focus on reality,
[14:35]my show's really expensive.
[14:37]So when they do like $10 million for a season
[14:40]and another $2 million to market it,
[14:42]they could make a reality show that's an hour
[14:45]instead of my half hour, that's a fifth of the price.
[14:48]So with marketing and everything.
[14:50]So it's just, it behooves them
[14:52]for their bravo business model to make more reality.
[14:55]And then for the scripted, I think the drama
[14:57]is more of an echo of the reality shows
[15:01]where it's like fights and throwing drinks on each other.
[15:03]And it's just more, I guess, like what that audience
[15:06]is trained to be into.
[15:07]They're not really known for comedy.
[15:09]We were it.
[15:10]We're the only scripted comedy.
[15:11]And I believe the plan is that they're done
[15:15]with that.
[15:16]They kind of took a risk on us.
[15:18]And they loved it.
[15:19]It got critical claim.
[15:20]It got all kinds of stars on the channel
[15:22]that would not be on there.
[15:24]But it's just not financially viable
[15:27]compared to reality shows if that's your business model.
[15:29]I get it.
[15:30]And I really honestly, everyone's like, aren't you so pissed?
[15:32]And I said, honestly, I'm just so grateful
[15:35]that I got three seasons and that they gave
[15:37]a 39 year old a show.
[15:39]So I felt really lucky.
[15:41]It's not just like, you know,
[15:43]so Cal Crystal's bullshit of like,
[15:45]I'm framing it in gratitude.
[15:46]Like, I'm actually truly, truly so lucky.
[15:49]I think it's been calling their part.
[15:51]Just for my two cents, I thought that was the best part
[15:53]of everybody.
[15:54]Thank you.
[15:55]When I'm in charge of bravo.
[15:58]So just switch gears a little bit.
[16:00]Honestly, one of my favorite children's books
[16:01]is the one that you wrote with your dog.
[16:04]Oh, thank you.
[16:05]Oh, Paris and Princesses, which I think
[16:06]was based on our joint preschool.
[16:08]Yes, exactly.
[16:09]So you've collaborated with a lot of different authors
[16:12]like Carrie at Campardon, so that's Carrie Cat.
[16:13]Carrie, Carrie, I'm Carrie, I'm Cara Siave and your daughter.
[16:16]What's it like?
[16:17]And now, obviously, all the people who you're doing
[16:19]TV writing with, what is it like collaborating
[16:21]with all these different people?
[16:23]And what was it like then collaborating with your daughter?
[16:25]Well, she actually wrote the book.
[16:27]I feel like with Carrie, it was a thorough collaboration.
[16:31]We took turns writing and then we would rewrite each other
[16:34]and it was very layered.
[16:35]There are sometimes chapters where I don't know who
[16:37]wrote what, like it's just very integrated.
[16:40]Same with the writer's room.
[16:41]We really broke all the storylines together
[16:45]as a group on a whiteboard with index cards
[16:47]and the whole thing.
[16:48]It was very brainstormy and collaborative.
[16:50]And then we would break off and I wrote half the scripts.
[16:54]And we did meet up stuff, but I couldn't write all 10.
[16:56]And then I'll kind of go and sprinkle fairy dust
[16:58]on the other scripts and little upry side jokes
[17:01]because I was the only one living.
[17:03]Everyone's in Brooklyn, or LA.
[17:04]So we brought in Angelenos, who had apartments here.
[17:07]But they knew some of the world just, you know,
[17:11]by proxy and Beverly Hills or things like that.
[17:14]But it's just, there's some New Yorkie things
[17:16]that Lara and I got more.
[17:19]But we couldn't have done it without the other writers.
[17:21]I mean, they brought so much to it.
[17:23]With Sadie, it was based on a true story in our class.
[17:26]There was kind of this gender war in her class.
[17:28]And it became, it divided the whole class.
[17:31]And we got called in the school and they said,
[17:33]she was being divisive and she's the head of the girls
[17:36]and Charlie's the head of the boys.
[17:37]It was this whole nightmare because basically,
[17:40]they said, you know, Sadie said the F word at school.
[17:43]And I said, oh, I don't know where she heard that
[17:45]when he's out there.
[17:47]And I said, what happened?
[17:48]And they said, Charlie told her her dress was hideous
[17:50]and she told him to fuck off.
[17:52]And I go, well, at least she's didn't the right context.
[17:54]And they like did.
[17:55]They were like the straight line mouth emoji.
[17:57]They were not amused.
[17:58]And I mean, of course, I came home and tell Harry's like,
[18:01]this is fucking hilarious.
[18:02]But we wrote this book to like heal her class
[18:06]because it was so divided.
[18:08]And they do parent reader.
[18:10]And Sadie said, I want to write our own book here.
[18:12]Your writer, let's write our own book.
[18:14]So she really wrote it.
[18:15]I mean, she dictated it and I typed it.
[18:18]And then we drew shitty drawings together.
[18:20]Read it to the class, they loved it.
[18:22]The class got better and better.
[18:24]And then Harry said, my husband said,
[18:26]why don't you send this to your agent?
[18:28]I feel like this is better than some of the shit
[18:30]that we read her.
[18:31]And two hours later, she called and said, you know,
[18:35]Penguin wants it.
[18:35]Oh my gosh.
[18:36]It was like so fast.
[18:37]It was so fast.
[18:38]And they had an illustrator in Paris
[18:40]who did the beautiful watercolors.
[18:42]And so it was great.
[18:44]And I did a signing two nights ago for it.
[18:46]Yeah, Park Avenue Christian is now called Park Children's
[18:49]or something.
[18:50]So and they had their book fair.
[18:51]So it's like keeps on giving
[18:52]because there's always new classes of little kids
[18:55]being born.
[18:56]So it was really fun.
[18:57]I feel like there are all these children's books
[18:59]that sound like good ideas.
[19:00]And like, I might like them that the kids
[19:02]have no interest in this one.
[19:04]I have to say that they legitimately want
[19:06]to read on their own.
[19:07]Oh, that's great.
[19:08]Just for what is worth for my crew of kids.
[19:10]Yay.
[19:12]Before we started talking here,
[19:14]you were telling me about your favorite books
[19:17]of the moment and how you haven't been able to find time
[19:19]to read as a mom.
[19:21]Tell me about what books you're reading now
[19:22]and what you really have loved.
[19:23]I am obsessed with Daniel Silva.
[19:26]He's an author based in Washington DC.
[19:28]And he has like crazy CIA sources or something
[19:33]because he knows so much.
[19:35]Basically, it follows this one character, Daniel Silva.
[19:39]Like, you know, it's his version of himself, I guess,
[19:42]called Gabrielle Alon.
[19:44]And he has, I'm like, have a crush on him.
[19:46]He's like this hot, like older guy.
[19:49]And he has bright green eyes.
[19:51]And he's this fresco restorer of Renaissance ceilings
[19:55]in Italy and is the most in demand in the world.
[19:58]But really, that's just a cover profession.
[20:00]He actually is so talented and is the best at it.
[20:03]Really, he's an Israeli spy.
[20:05]And it's sort of like the Munich plot
[20:08]where he's involved in the Operation Wrath of God
[20:12]getting killing the terrorists who executed the wrestling team.
[20:15]So he is, that character is one of the Munich people.
[20:19]And then it's where he is now
[20:21]and how he's still fighting for the state of Israel
[20:24]and finding corruption and anti-Semitic plots
[20:27]all over the world in all different countries.
[20:29]And there's a lot of art heist stuff in it
[20:33]and Holocaust restoration, reparations of,
[20:37]of, he's restoring the paintings,
[20:39]but it's reparations returning,
[20:41]looted art from Jewish families.
[20:44]It's unbelievable.
[20:46]And you're sweating, you're reading it.
[20:47]It's like the firm or something.
[20:49]You're spitsing your balls off.
[20:50]I lost three pounds like reading it.
[20:52]And it's so pulse pounding.
[20:53]I mean, you said you read like 20 books
[20:55]and how you read 17 books in seven months,
[20:59]which I have not done since becoming a mom 15 years ago.
[21:02]I have never read that many books.
[21:04]I was like slogging through Hamilton
[21:07]because I felt like I had to read it.
[21:08]And I read, you know, I've read, you know, a few books a year
[21:12]but not, not voraciously like when I was in my 20s.
[21:15]Now I have never, not even in my 20s
[21:18]have I read 17 books like this fast.
[21:20]And they're, they're so all encompassing.
[21:22]I think about them all the time.
[21:25]And what do you have?
[21:26]What do you want to do next on your wish list?
[21:28]I know you said you were going to take some time
[21:30]and think about it.
[21:30]Do you want to write more books?
[21:32]Do you want to write more TV stuff?
[21:33]Do you want to write a book but not now?
[21:37]I feel like when my kids, when I'm old,
[21:40]I can go back to that.
[21:41]I love writing books but it was very solitary.
[21:44]And once I had the drug of being in a writer's room,
[21:47]I really want to keep doing TV writing for now.
[21:50]But I also love acting.
[21:51]I feel like I don't want to just like go be an actress
[21:55]certain roles have come up that, you know,
[21:58]for experience quote unquote,
[21:59]but I just don't want to do stuff that's not my taste.
[22:03]Like I'd rather just not work than do like crappy things.
[22:07]But I'd love to write another show and act in it as well.
[22:11]I just don't know what's going to be as yet.
[22:13]But in the meantime, I would love to pursue other acting
[22:18]things that are cool or, you know,
[22:21]maybe like work on a movie rewrite or something like that.
[22:24]Like there are jobs that come up from time to time
[22:26]where you can just like polish a script
[22:28]and put your jokes in it and stuff like that.
[22:30]Little projects that have a short span, time span.
[22:35]But yeah, we'll see.
[22:36]I don't know what the next year we'll bring.
[22:38]I feel like I want to just sort of go with the flow
[22:41]and see what falls in my lap
[22:43]or what low hanging fruit there is that I can go for
[22:46]because with three kids, I can't really be like,
[22:49]oh, I'm picking up and moving now later,
[22:51]like pursue this job.
[22:52]Like I'm a New Yorker.
[22:54]I don't drive.
[22:55]I don't function well out there.
[22:56]I visit a lot.
[22:57]But I'm not so committed to being a screenwriter
[23:01]that I'm going to move out there
[23:03]or really like pursue it the way a hungry 25 year old would.
[23:07]I'm not that hungry, I guess, I'm lazy.
[23:09]How would your kids respond to what you put out
[23:13]in the world so far?
[23:14]They love it.
[23:15]I feel like they love it.
[23:16]They're super proud of me.
[23:17]I think Sadie was really embarrassed that I had like
[23:21]my butt out on the show and like was dancing
[23:24]with my cellulite.
[23:24]But I sort of, I saw it as like a moment to say like,
[23:28]I don't give a shit.
[23:28]I have three kids.
[23:29]That's what you get.
[23:30]You get cellulite and it's totally worth it.
[23:32]And I don't care.
[23:33]And by the way, if I saw Mom doing like an underwear
[23:36]dance party on TV and she like perfect size
[23:38]with no cellulite, I'd be like fuck you.
[23:40]That's so bullshit.
[23:41]You got lipo.
[23:42]I can't believe you guys even are critical
[23:44]of how you looked in that episode
[23:46]because I was like looked like that.
[23:48]And so I'm glad you're Sadie's not looking
[23:51]to be dancing on this all I have to say.
[23:55]What about other people out there who are dying
[23:58]to write something, be writers, be authors,
[24:00]what advice would you have?
[24:01]I always say just write it.
[24:02]I feel like this is such a new age.
[24:04]And I'm really lucky because I came up
[24:06]at the beginning of the internet.
[24:07]So I was always writing.
[24:09]I think a lot of people in the olden days,
[24:11]they have the typewriter with the stack of typed paper.
[24:14]Now you can just hit publish and have a blog.
[24:16]You can get a following.
[24:17]You can make a YouTube movie.
[24:19]People make shorts.
[24:21]I mean, I just was posting a guy in my crew
[24:23]from on mom out wanting to be a director.
[24:25]He made a short.
[24:26]He now has a million views.
[24:28]Anyone can just create their own stuff now with iMovie.
[24:31]And I feel like do it, write it.
[24:35]The way you hone your voices just by doing more and more
[24:38]and more and more.
[24:39]And I feel like you have to be uninhibited.
[24:41]My other piece of advice is never
[24:44]right for the marketplace.
[24:45]I had so much bad advice throughout my career
[24:49]of people saying, no, no, moms, that's boring.
[24:52]Don't write about moms.
[24:53]You want to write about this.
[24:54]Or New York is over.
[24:55]You want to write about the suburbs suburbs are hot.
[24:57]Because when I was starting, momzilla's desperate housewives
[25:00]was the number one show.
[25:02]And they were like, you want to write about a cul-de-sac
[25:05]and all the affairs.
[25:05]And I said, no, I don't.
[25:07]I want to do a New York dark comedy.
[25:09]And I remember hearing that there's just not New York
[25:15]like I can't have every book that I ever do in New York.
[25:19]And I was like, why the fuck not?
[25:20]Woody Allen did it.
[25:22]There's so much in the city.
[25:23]And I'm a die-hard New Yorker.
[25:24]And I think you should write what you know.
[25:26]And I always feel like in the same way
[25:28]that it feels forced when someone comes here
[25:31]and in a movie you see people pay through the outside cab
[25:34]window.
[25:34]And you're like, no, no, no, that's not how that happens.
[25:38]I would never appropriate another culture
[25:40]and presume that I could go in and write a great suburban
[25:44]comedy because I don't live it.
[25:46]I don't know.
[25:46]It's just not for me.
[25:47]Not that you can't have an imagination and do it.
[25:50]I just think a lot of its research
[25:51]intensive, maybe I'm just lazy.
[25:54]So what would you say is your main goal
[25:56]and the things that you write?
[25:58]Are you trying to make people laugh?
[25:59]Are you trying to make people feel less alone?
[26:01]Are you trying to just create this fun-house mirror
[26:05]sensation that you were talking about?
[26:06]It's a good question.
[26:08]I would say just not, I hate the word authentic,
[26:11]but just like the honesty of writing something that's
[26:15]clawing its way out of you.
[26:16]I think if you do anything other than that,
[26:19]it just feels like work.
[26:20]For me, it's always felt like work.
[26:22]If I'm doing a magazine article or whatever,
[26:24]and it's a job, and it's fun, but it feels like a job.
[26:27]I'm trying to really from now on just write things
[26:32]that are tearing out of me that I have to get out,
[26:34]like some kind of catharsis.
[26:36]Because when I do that, I notice that it
[26:39]does all the things that you said.
[26:41]People feel less alone.
[26:42]They laugh.
[26:43]Those are the things that people talk to me about,
[26:46]that they react to.
[26:49]They might say, I saw your article in this.
[26:51]Big fucking deal, I don't need attention for writing
[26:56]an interview with somebody.
[26:57]I like someone reading something and saying, yes, that's me.
[27:01]And having that moment, and that happens the most
[27:05]when it's something that's like breathing, and it should
[27:08]it out.
[27:10]Lovely.
[27:11]Thank you for that visual.
[27:13]Here's some diapers.
[27:14]Here's some depends for you.
[27:16]Don't have diapers in my house, I knew that would.
[27:18]No, I'm kidding.
[27:19]Well, thank you so much.
[27:20]Thank you, Sivi.
[27:21]So much fun hearing about all your work,
[27:24]and I cannot wait to hear what you decide to do next.
[27:26]Yay.
[27:27]Thank you.
[27:29]Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mom's Don't Have
[27:32]Time to Read Books.
[27:33]Please subscribe.
[27:34]And this episode has been sponsored by Chloe's Fruit,
[27:38]the cool way to eat fruit.
[27:39]You can check them out at Chloe'sfruit.com.
[27:42]Thanks again.