Elyssa Friedland, Author of "The Intermission"
[0:00]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and this is Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:15]As a mom of four kids in New York City and a writer myself, I know all too well how short
[0:19]everyone is on time, so I'm here to help.
[0:21]I'm going to interview authors and writers of all types about their work, especially as
[0:25]it relates to parenting and family issues.
[0:28]Hopefully you can listen while doing 8 million other things, and fall in love with these
[0:31]talented scribes and their fantastic books, essays, and songs like I have.
[0:35]Plus get some tips on surviving parenthood.
[0:37]For more about me, you can check out my essays at zibiowens.com.
[0:42]Today's episode of Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books is brought to you by Bobo Botanicals,
[0:47]B-A-B-O Botanicals, Organic, Skin, Sun, and Hair Care for the Whole Family.
[0:53]I'm excited to be here today with Alyssa Friedland.
[0:56]She's the author of Two Novels, her first debut novel Love and Miscommunication, and now
[1:02]the intermission out July 3rd.
[1:04]A graduate of Yale University, where she was the managing editor of the Yale Daily News,
[1:08]in Columbia Law School.
[1:09]Alyssa started her career working at a law firm before moving to writing full-time after
[1:13]the birth of her second child.
[1:15]She has contributed to many publications, including New York Magazine, Modern Bride, Real
[1:19]Simple, and most recently The Washington Post.
[1:22]She grew up in New Jersey and currently lives in New York City with her husband and three
[1:25]young children.
[1:26]Hi, Biddy.
[1:27]Hi, listen.
[1:28]How are you?
[1:29]I'm good.
[1:30]I have gone.
[1:31]Thanks for coming on Mom's End of Time to read books.
[1:33]Oh, thank you for having me.
[1:35]Of course.
[1:36]I'm excited.
[1:37]So for listeners who don't know the backstory of the intermission, could you give them
[1:42]a quick summary of what it's about?
[1:44]Yeah, so it's got a couple of cats and Jonathan's coins.
[2:17]So I heard that the idea for the intermission came to you when you were watching your
[2:21]husband methodically do the dishes, and you were sitting there thinking you could do
[2:24]it faster and better, is that right?
[2:28]That is true.
[2:29]So this was my second novel, My Fergio.
[2:30]It was about the tradition.
[3:20]And they'd be next to each other, and it was like three pieces of things on a little
[3:48]bit more of a mess.
[3:49]But I thought I was launching him, or just feeling like, oh, I agree with that.
[4:08]I love, in the book, how you alternated between cats and Jonathan's point of view, although
[4:12]I feel like I want to call him John, because I'm sort of annoyed that cats called him
[4:16]Jonathan.
[4:17]Yeah.
[4:18]So I feel like I really went through these six months with the two of them, and I
[4:22]got to know them so well.
[4:23]And I found myself really hoping for a certain outcome.
[4:27]And I won't give away the end, but I was sort of hoping for a different outcome, maybe
[4:30]than what ended up happening.
[4:32]So I was wondering, did you try to push the reader sort of to feel a certain loyalty towards
[4:38]either cats or Jonathan?
[4:39]Did you know from the beginning of the book how it was going to unfold, or did it just
[4:45]was it one of these things where the book just wrote itself as you went along?
[4:48]So I don't outline, like, not, I think, resist the book on it, and out, like, a picture
[6:13]of, you know, and having people.
[6:25]Totally.
[6:26]I finished the book, and I was sitting here, and I was like, I want to talk to somebody
[6:28]about this.
[6:29]But who can I tell you in this?
[6:31]That was definitely what I wanted, but hopefully, you know, now that the book will be out
[6:36]in the world, you know, that will be people to chat with them about it.
[6:38]That's, no, I'm sure a million people are going to be reading it.
[6:41]I just met at that particular moment, you know, at that moment, and my bedroom is, but
[6:45]most people I've talked to my early readers have, you want to, like, I'm very good
[6:56]at that.
[6:57]Not that I didn't like it.
[7:00]I mean, I love the book.
[7:01]I just got so invested in it.
[7:03]Like, I couldn't believe how much, like, I just got so into your care shoes.
[7:07]Anyway, I was just saying, that's a copy.
[7:09]That's not what I want to hear, really try my best to create, like, extremely, three-dimensional
[7:15]character.
[7:16]You really did.
[7:17]I was like, cool.
[7:18]Yeah, I was really, I feel like I know these people now, and like, I should see them
[7:22]on the street or something.
[7:24]You put a lot of emphasis in the book on how Cass and Jonathan came from different socio-economic
[7:30]backgrounds.
[7:31]Jonathan is this traditional, then you're going wasp and Cass whose mother lives at
[7:35]a Motel 6, basically.
[7:37]So how do you think their backgrounds were so relevant to their stories?
[7:41]And do you think it's a big stumbling block in a relationship to come from different backgrounds
[7:45]like that?
[7:47]I think something odd to them that they are connecting with people different from when you
[8:43]have children is.
[8:50]Because there are subtle in the other, like, Jonathan wants to, you know, that's just
[9:09]the way.
[9:16]Like, he knows intellectually what, you know, it's a really, really rough, and she couldn't
[9:25]have birthday parties and things like other children, but it's different, like, knowing
[9:29]it, and there's some deals and it's like, you just feel.
[10:00]It's not at all that he wanted to order a comfortable family and yet, you know, she finds that much that we'd like to ignore the differences.
[10:48]So when Cass tells Jonathan about the break, she's upset originally that he doesn't think she could be requesting it because she's seeing someone else.
[11:08]And that he believes her right away when she says the break is not about another guy. And he right from Cass's viewpoint and say,
[11:14]I didn't he picture some greasy tennis instructor in white shorts, wedding her whistle, maybe he believed she was more complex than a cliche though that was optimistic.
[11:22]So what do you make of that cliche and why did Cass get so upset then?
[11:26]Sorry, he had to go there right now.
[12:34]And you continue with the tennis themes later and you say about you say they were living in a no man's land relationship wise.
[12:42]The place on the tennis court where you miss every shot.
[12:44]The purgatory seemed to be working for the time being, but only a fool would think it could continue that way indefinitely.
[12:49]So are you a big tennis fan? What's with all the tennis stuff?
[12:53]I like the sort of association with tennis and Jonathan is upbringing.
[13:03]Me too. I'm a big fan. That's why I'm asking the question.
[13:06]Yeah, no, I love that. I'm not actually good, but I love to watch.
[13:27]I married a former tennis pro, so I'm particularly invested in this.
[13:38]Oh my gosh, like a college player.
[13:43]Yeah, he was a coach. He was a coach people on the tour and it was great.
[13:48]So anyway, so I'm taking your very sexy.
[13:51]Yeah, no, I'm in the tennis player.
[13:53]I'm like, no, doll, I'm like.
[13:57]Yeah, it's Wimbledon's going on now. I gotta check him out.
[14:05]Yeah, I know.
[14:07]So I'm so welcome.
[14:09]Anyway, not too far off.
[14:11]So you got married when you were 25, which for these days is like pretty young.
[14:16]So is there any of this super young? Super young, which is I know.
[14:20]How much if any of this is sort of autobiographical?
[14:23]I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, I would have thought the amygdala or whatever part of the brain control decision.
[14:39]The brain that controlled feeling I was like, you know, but for rain working, I think, you know, when we got together.
[15:33]Right.
[15:37]And I think he must be pretty pretty laid back in part.
[15:41]The essay you wrote recently for the on parenting column in the Washington Post, which was called,
[15:46]we were drowning in diapers and scheduling sex, but then we got our groove back.
[15:51]It was a great article, by the way.
[15:52]Everybody listening.
[15:53]She definitely read it.
[15:54]It's online in the Washington Post.
[15:56]You talked about after giving away all your baby's stuff in your home now that the kids are out of the baby phase.
[16:02]You said you were so ecstatic.
[16:04]And you said it helped revive your relationship.
[16:06]Revive your relationship with your husband.
[16:08]You wrote that life still wasn't perfect.
[16:11]But you wrote, we aren't tired every minute of every day.
[16:14]We are a couple, not just parents of the same children.
[16:17]Best of all, we have sex in the morning sometimes spontaneously.
[16:20]So I'm sure, you know, many parents can relate to that feeling of being in the weeds with the kids and, you know, the bedroom being a revolving door of kids in the night and everything.
[16:30]And how, you know, first of all, just how does your husband feel about you talking about this personal stuff with him?
[16:35]And then maybe talk a little about how your life has changed with your kids getting a little bit older.
[16:40]Well, he was completely fine with the article.
[16:45]He's a very laid-back person.
[16:49]Like, what?
[16:50]Like, because, so he's got kids obviously waiting for probably 99% it's going to be fine.
[17:14]And if the one person can't, so you're going to hear something really horrible,
[17:17]well, all I can fixate on is the one person.
[17:20]And that feeling, and so, like, I call him the doctor, blood work is fine, everything is fine.
[17:24]And all he can focus on is the 99% and just the, like, how, like, is so unlikely that something could be wrong,
[17:31]but how could you, like, he is just a very comfort and then as a massive part,
[17:38]like, what I find sexy and attractive about him.
[17:41]I'm, like, one man, you know.
[18:05]I'm just thinking that this is who.
[18:09]And he's very friend in the article, but she's not the only one.
[18:29]I have a lot of friends that really, like, quote-unquote went through a morning period when they,
[18:34]when they, you know, laughing.
[18:39]Not a baby anymore, you know.
[19:02]I just, I, of course, I love all that cuteness.
[19:06]They're saying an article.
[19:32]It's so weird to me.
[19:34]Like, him being older.
[19:45]You know, I leave them and turn my back and, and, you know, run an answer to the baby tub, you know.
[19:55]And, um.
[20:00]It's just not that breaking anymore.
[20:02]And I feel also just walking down the street,
[20:05]not pushing a stroller in front of me.
[20:07]I felt like it was like a hand-based tail
[20:10]where they were like, you know,
[20:11]where they're covered in these like,
[20:15]I found my balance with this stroller
[20:17]with like, being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen,
[20:24]you know?
[20:25]And now I'm not like that.
[20:26]I walked side-to-side my kids, we hold hands.
[20:30]People see me first before they feed the stroller.
[20:32]Yeah.
[20:33]I feel free.
[20:34]I love it.
[20:35]And a lot of people I know also love it,
[20:36]but a lot of people don't.
[20:46]I still have people in diverse, not people.
[20:47]I still have my son is still in diverse.
[20:49]I still have a little guy still, so.
[20:52]But no, I feel both ways.
[20:55]I mean, you know, I feel, you know,
[20:58]I can relate to you, I get really anxious
[21:01]about everything myself.
[21:02]I have very laid back husband
[21:03]and I'm super anxious.
[21:04]And I think I agree with you.
[21:05]That's a really good combination.
[21:07]But I think as the kids get older,
[21:10]some of that anxiety goes away
[21:11]because they seem less fragile in a way.
[21:14]like what you're saying about the bathtub.
[21:15]So I'm with you.
[21:16]I think that having sort of more sturdy older kids,
[21:19]you know, you can relax a little more in some ways,
[21:22]but I don't know.
[21:24]Anyway.
[21:26]And you said somewhere that you are like obsessed
[21:29]with sleep and you get nine hours a night of sleep
[21:32]and yet you have three kids.
[21:33]So I just want to know how is this possible?
[21:36]Like how do you get them?
[21:37]I must be.
[21:38]I'm a tremendous, because if I've got an email at night
[22:30]and now I know the chances of my...
[22:52]It's not terrible, I'm just, it's enviable
[22:55]to get yourself to bed.
[22:57]I feel like so many distractions at night and everything.
[23:00]And speaking of distractions,
[23:01]your first novel, debut novel, Love and Miscommunication,
[23:05]was about a woman, Evie Rosen,
[23:06]who decides to go phone free.
[23:08]She's just had enough.
[23:10]And you've said before in articles that the advice
[23:12]your husband and kids would probably give you
[23:14]would be to get off your phone.
[23:16]So I'm wondering, are you like a phone addict
[23:18]or are you just sort of like all the rest of us
[23:20]trying to keep up with everything all the time?
[23:39]Right.
[23:40]There's something around.
[24:02]You know, it's totally fine, whatever.
[24:33]It's so funny.
[24:34]I sometimes now feel like annoyed when I'm with my mom
[24:37]if she starts being on her phone.
[24:39]I don't know if you ever have that with your mom.
[24:40]But anyway, I'm like, mom, you're with me.
[24:43]Why are you on your phone?
[24:44]And I can only have friends whose moms are really
[24:47]into their phones and it drives them crazy.
[24:49]I happen to have a mom who never looks at her crazy.
[25:06]So you know, I do luckily I don't have that.
[25:08]But yeah, no, I'm really upset about it.
[25:10]And I like, I got to deal with it maybe this summer.
[25:15]So it's a close girlfriend came to you and said
[25:17]she was having doubts about her marriage, similar to Cass
[25:20]and Jonathan and then her mission.
[25:21]Would you recommend she take a six month break
[25:24]like Cass and Jonathan or what would you say to her?
[25:27]Be helpful if you're getting through the day
[26:07]as hard like you don't even have the mental state.
[26:18]You said, Jonathan, Jonathan wrote this album
[26:21]for the fun of the book, Cass.
[26:25]Oh, sorry.
[26:26]Say that again?
[26:27]Yeah, sorry.
[26:29]No, no, I didn't, well, sorry.
[26:31]I didn't say anything.
[26:32]Okay, sorry.
[26:33]Sometimes with the, sometimes with Skype,
[26:35]it's not so perfect.
[26:36]Jonathan's view in the book, he said,
[26:38]life wasn't about choosing to be single on Mondays
[26:41]and married on Tuesdays or getting to be a parent
[26:43]every other week.
[26:44]It was picking a lane and committing to it.
[26:47]Is this what you believe or is this just what you wanted us
[26:49]to hear from Jonathan?
[26:51]In that moment, I feel like Jonathan is our people who are,
[26:57]you know, you're always a parent who, you know,
[27:00]don't have full custody of their kids
[27:02]and they're just as much parents as people decide
[27:10]but in many different forms.
[27:15]That was really an expression of Jonathan's exasperation
[27:18]feeling that Cass would be impulsive and childish
[27:22]in wanting to just have it all in that moment.
[27:24]That was really meant to capture his frustration
[27:26]in the moment.
[27:28]And in terms of just the process of writing
[27:30]both of your books, you had different publishers
[27:33]for the two books, is that correct?
[27:35]Yes.
[27:36]So how was that process?
[27:38]Like how did that come to be and just comparing contrast
[27:41]sort of the two experiences of writing both those novels?
[27:45]Well, I definitely.
[30:02]Yeah.
[30:03]You're dealing with contact.
[30:04]I'll talk to you on three days.
[30:05]Yeah.
[30:06]It's like a copy.
[30:07]Be good.
[30:08]Common language.
[30:09]Yeah.
[30:10]I speak that language.
[30:11]I get you.
[30:12]What's the next book about?
[30:16]The next book is a multi-generational look-of-a-go-round traffic people on the boat.
[30:44]It's like my worst nightmare.
[30:46]I know.
[30:47]I went out of cruise last year for research with my family.
[30:50]Oh my gosh.
[30:51]How was it?
[30:52]It was my work.
[30:53]Yeah.
[30:54]Yeah.
[30:55]That whole, like, being out of control feeling.
[30:56]You know?
[30:57]Nothing able to ask.
[30:58]Yeah.
[30:59]I get to.
[31:00]This is so many other people.
[31:03]Do you have any advice to aspiring novelists out there?
[31:08]Um, I think it's just a lot of, like, butt-in-chair.
[31:10]Yeah.
[32:03]My Kindle.
[32:04]So I'm reading in very short, sitting down, like, the way.
[32:37]Excellent.
[32:38]Well, great advice.
[32:39]And congratulations on the intermission.
[32:41]I really, you know, I became so attached to it, as I said, and I really recommended it.
[32:46]It was a great read and, um, congratulations.
[32:49]And I'm sure you'll have lots of success with it going forward.
[32:52]And I can't wait to follow your career and see what else happens.
[32:56]Thank you so much.
[32:57]I really appreciate that.
[33:00]No problem.
[33:01]All right.
[33:02]Take care.
[33:03]Take care.
[33:04]Bye.
[33:05]This episode of Mom's Don't Have Time to Read books was sponsored by Bobble Botanicals,
[33:08]B-A-B-O, Bobble Botanicals, Organic Skin, Sun, and Hair Care for the Whole Family.
[33:13]Thanks for listening.