Sara Bliss, Author of TAKE THE LEAP
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens and you're listening to Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:28]I'm excited to be here today with Sarah Bliss.
[0:30]Sarah is a New York Times best-selling author and a brand advisor.
[0:34]She's the author of 11 books.
[0:37]She's amazing, including her upcoming nonfiction work.
[0:40]Take the leap, change your career, change your life.
[0:43]She co-wrote three books with makeup guru Bobby Brown.
[0:45]It's like my favorite makeup person ever.
[0:48]And that's like all in there.
[0:49]A former senior writer and editor for Yahoo!
[0:52]She has written for the Wall Street Journal Esquire,
[0:54]Town and Country Oprah and Travel and Leisure as well as for many other online publications.
[0:58]She speech rights, she ghost rights for CEOs and other hypervault clients.
[1:02]She does branding work, she does everything.
[1:05]She currently lives in New York City with her two children and her husband.
[1:10]Yes.
[1:10]Where she was born and raised.
[1:11]Yes.
[1:12]So welcome, Sarah.
[1:14]Thank you.
[1:14]I'm so excited to be here.
[1:16]You are an amazingly prolific author.
[1:18]I'm totally impressed with how much you've done.
[1:21]What made you decide at this point in your career to take the leap and why now?
[1:25]And then tell the listeners a little about what it's about.
[1:28]Please.
[1:29]Well, basically I've written profiles my entire career.
[1:32]And the one thing that I found that was really fascinating is a lot of the most successful people
[1:37]it wasn't a linear path.
[1:39]It ended up they had this whole other life beforehand.
[1:42]And to me, that was fascinating and really inspiring.
[1:45]Partly because I wasn't really that happy with my own career.
[1:49]I kind of gone into nonfiction as like a little bit of a placeholder with this idea that I was
[1:54]going to be a novelist.
[1:56]And I had written a couple books and the one that was supposed to be my big breakout book,
[2:01]just wasn't.
[2:02]And so I became everybody's ghostwriter.
[2:06]But at the same time, I was doing all these profiles.
[2:09]And I just thought it was really there was a lot of takeaway from it that a lot of these stories,
[2:15]there's a lot of takeaway and people can definitely so many people want to do this themselves.
[2:20]So to hear stories of how people did it, that's really the crux of it.
[2:24]And you profiled 60 plus people.
[2:27]Some profiles, sometimes they wrote their own essays like Jill Cardman, for instance.
[2:32]How did you identify that group of people, those 60 people?
[2:35]Well, I wanted it to be that if someone is thinking of making this kind of career leap and let's
[2:40]be honest, like everybody is thinking about this at one time or another, that they would find
[2:44]somebody's whose story that they would relate with.
[2:47]So I picked kind of the big types of careers that people tend to gravitate towards a second career.
[2:53]So going into wellness, becoming an entrepreneur, like doing something creative, giving back.
[2:59]And then I found the most inspiring stories from each kind of category.
[3:04]It was a lot, a lot of research, a lot of chasing people down.
[3:07]And I'm really, really thrilled with the stories that we have.
[3:11]When I first put out in the universe that I was doing this book,
[3:14]I got a lot of people telling me that they had friends who left finance to become yoga instructors.
[3:19]And that's fine.
[3:20]And that's a friendly thing.
[3:22]Yeah, there's a lot of people.
[3:24]But I wanted the stories to really, really resonate and be really married.
[3:28]So the reasons for switching, the hurdles they had to overcome,
[3:32]like I wanted there to be a lot of takeaway for people.
[3:35]And what would you say, some of the big lessons that you got out of the book and all the research were?
[3:40]Well, the biggest is, I mean, you have to prepare.
[3:44]I mean, I think, you know, I wasn't going to start the book with a sentence basically saying,
[3:48]like, this isn't a guide to blowing up your life, because I think so many people come up with,
[3:54]you know, hear this idea and they think, all right, yeah, I want to do that.
[3:57]I want to like go into my boss's office and, you know, tell him to go to hell and,
[4:01]you know, run off to Belize and open a beach bar and, you know, never come back.
[4:05]But the people that are really successful in making these kinds of changes, you know,
[4:09]even if it involves the move to the Caribbean, like they've done their homework, they've prepared
[4:13]for it. So I think the biggest thing is every single person was prepared in some way.
[4:18]they went back to school, they found a mentor, they worked for free on the side,
[4:21]they took online classes, whatever, you know, they reached out to someone via LinkedIn
[4:27]who had already done it. Whatever it was that they did, they were ultimately prepared.
[4:32]Like, they also didn't go into an interview and say, like, oh, just give me a chance I can do it.
[4:37]They were, they were ready. They said, this is, this is why, you know, this would be the right
[4:41]thing for me. Was it usually at the same age? Like, is it like the 40 year old breakdown time to
[4:48]there's a lot of people in their 40s who were doing this? Definitely. But there were definitely
[4:53]some younger people as well. I mean, a couple of the people who switched careers actually
[4:59]because they were having mental health issues with their previous careers. And that happened a
[5:04]lot in their 20s. Like, there are people who are having, you know, one guy was a gora phobic and
[5:08]other people having terrible panic attacks and depression. And they found that, you know, being outdoors
[5:14]or working with their hands or, you know, whatever it was for them was ultimately kind of healing.
[5:19]And for a lot of people being in an office, nine to five, like, just, it just doesn't work for them.
[5:25]So that to me was one of the most interesting takeaways that that was a reason, you know,
[5:29]that people changed. I just, for some reason, I thought everyone in the book was going to say,
[5:33]like, oh, I just want to be happier. Oh, I wanted to like burst in my passion, but it wasn't all
[5:38]because of that. Interesting. Were there people that you really wanted or you had in mind
[5:43]that were great examples of this, but then they said, no, no, I don't want to be in the book for
[5:47]whatever reason? Well, Scott Harrison, I don't know if he has a new book out called Thirst.
[5:52]I think it's just came out. He's a fascinating guy. He basically was a party promoter and was
[5:59]using a lot of drugs and drinking and being this kind of very different kind of life.
[6:04]And then he kind of had a spiritual weakening and ended up now he started this charity
[6:10]called Charity Water. Oh, yes. I know. And I really wanted him in the book, but he has his own
[6:16]books. So right. So just the time and didn't work out. I also, I stalked Aaron Maven.
[6:23]I really wanted him and I sent him an email and right away he said yes. And it was right at the
[6:30]time that he was getting a lot of press for those that don't know. He's a guy that was in the NFL,
[6:34]he left and he became an artist, which was something he actually had done since childhood.
[6:40]And he was teaching art in the Baltimore Public Schools and he put out this video basically showing
[6:46]his classroom full of kids who did not have heat were in coats and cold. And he basically said
[6:51]like how can kids be learning in these circumstances. So at the time that I was trying to get him
[6:57]in the book, he was getting all his national press attention and Amazon was shipping coats and
[7:02]all these people were offering to fix the heat. So he was really busy. And so he said yes and then
[7:08]I didn't hear from him for a long time. And I kept emailing him and didn't hear from him. And then
[7:13]I was on the first pass of the book. Most of it had been written and I was like I'll just try one one
[7:18]time. And he said yes. So I was thrilled. I think his story is really inspiring. And it's also
[7:24]really insightful. And this whole dream he had of the NFL and what that would be like. And when he
[7:28]got there, it just wasn't what he thought. And the reality I think of some careers versus the dream
[7:34]is something I think that also gets people to switch it out totally. I mean you don't really know
[7:38]until you do it a lot of the time. I mean you can ask people and you know, shout out people and
[7:44]right until you're doing it. I agree. I agree. And that actually was Barbara Corcoran as one of the
[7:49]experts in the book. And her advice I thought really resonated which was don't follow your passion
[7:55]this whole idea of you know, sometimes your passion doesn't make a good career. Sometimes it's
[8:00]maybe not something that's going to be financially viable. And I also think there are a lot of
[8:05]people who don't even know what their passion is. So it's so much pressure. Didn't she say she
[8:09]used to deliver flowers? Yeah, she was obsessed with flowers. And so she thought this would be the
[8:14]perfect career. And she said she was by herself. She was by herself arranging flowers. She was by
[8:18]herself delivering flowers. And she was lonely. And her skill is she's really a people person. And she
[8:26]realized that in all the careers that she had done well and she had been with people.
[8:30]I mean she was a waitress which she says was like the best preparation for being a sales person.
[8:36]She ultimately wanted to real estate which is you know, where she you know made her money and found
[8:40]her her biggest success. But she had 23 jobs beforehand. So her advice to everyone is try as many
[8:47]jobs as possible. And that's really where you kind of see what your strengths are and go with
[8:52]what your strengths are. I think that's how to find it. I think it helps also taking some of the
[8:57]pressure off because have things you enjoy doing that like is this a passion? I don't know. Right.
[9:02]You know what I call this a passion. I worked in advertising. Like I've always loved writing. But
[9:09]I thought maybe psychology maybe advertising maybe branding. And then I had this whole thing where
[9:13]I was marketing Pepperidge Farm cookies. And it was really fun. It was great. It was like an
[9:18]an account. I wanted these like internships I had. And I was like, but is this really my passion?
[9:23]Like this this is my passion. Can I even tell people that my passion trying to sell
[9:26]her cookies? So I don't know. I mean not that there's nothing wrong with that. I really enjoyed it.
[9:30]But I think there are different things your career can do for you. I mean it doesn't have to fulfill
[9:34]like necessarily at especially at the beginning stages. What you long for is your whole being.
[9:40]Right. Right. It can be something you enjoy. Right. One part of your brain that you want to
[9:43]exercise or learn skills and somehow hopefully they come together later.
[9:47]I also think it puts like this insane amount of pressure on your career.
[9:52]Yeah. And it's a little bit like a relationship. Right. So you don't if you have a healthy
[9:56]relationship that person isn't going to be giving you all your joy. Right.
[10:00]You have to like, have it, you know,
[10:02]find happiness yourself and then you come together
[10:04]as whole people, right?
[10:05]That's, I really think that's kind of a similar analogy
[10:08]to what works best for a career.
[10:10]It's like you have to be a happy person,
[10:12]an excited person about what you're doing,
[10:15]willing to take all the bumps in the road,
[10:17]all the hurdles, all the setbacks,
[10:19]and there will be them,
[10:20]even when you kind of find your quote unquote passion
[10:23]or find what you're meant to do.
[10:25]But this idea that your career has to make you happy
[10:28]all the time is ridiculous.
[10:31]I mean, I sure, you know, you love your career.
[10:33]I love what I do.
[10:35]I am obsessed with being a writer.
[10:37]I can't imagine doing anything else.
[10:39]It's the reason why I've kind of hustled
[10:41]and, you know, done all these branding things
[10:43]and, you know, so many ghost writing things
[10:45]to kind of stay in this world.
[10:47]But there are times where it's like very humbling.
[10:50]There's a lot of rejection.
[10:52]It can be frustrating.
[10:53]I'm up, I have kids too.
[10:55]So sometimes I'm up until like two in the morning
[10:57]trying to make a deadline.
[10:59]When, you know, maybe I don't love my career so much,
[11:01]but at the same time, I would never do anything else.
[11:06]So I think when you take out this idea
[11:08]that your career has to be this like, you know, passion
[11:12]and make you happy, I think then you can be a little bit
[11:14]more realistic about what you're good at
[11:16]and what you like to do and where you're kind of,
[11:19]definitely going to be happiest, but it's not perfect.
[11:22]Right, it's so gorgeous.
[11:23]It's so, it's not, it's not entirely, it's not work.
[11:26]There's actually a really interesting woman in my book.
[11:29]Her name is Carolyn Waters.
[11:30]She's now a librarian at the New York Society Library.
[11:33]And she had been in finance forever
[11:36]and had been doing really, really well.
[11:37]She was a consultant of financial consultant.
[11:39]And she kept getting promoted and promoted.
[11:41]And she knew that she wanted to do something else,
[11:43]but she couldn't figure out what it was.
[11:45]And her work was so intense and busy
[11:48]that she never could kind of figure out
[11:51]what the next move was.
[11:52]And all of a sudden she was like, I'm 20 years into this.
[11:55]I know I want to do something different,
[11:56]but I don't know what that is.
[11:58]So she took six months off.
[12:00]She quit her job.
[12:01]She didn't tell anyone what she was doing.
[12:03]And she did a bunch of volunteer work and internships.
[12:07]And then she volunteered at a library just
[12:09]because she loved to read and loved to be around books.
[12:12]And when she was there, she was like, oh my gosh,
[12:14]this is what I need to be doing.
[12:16]But she says she never would have figured it out
[12:18]while she was working.
[12:19]And she also really, really hated that pressure,
[12:23]that whole passion kind of pressure,
[12:25]because it just didn't make sense for her.
[12:27]And it's so public.
[12:28]It's the first thing that people tend to ask, right?
[12:31]What do you do?
[12:31]Yes, like, oh gosh.
[12:33]Now I have to, well, I don't know.
[12:36]You went the whole story, if you want to know what I did
[12:38]before nine in this morning.
[12:40]It's always so public.
[12:42]It's like, it is, you know,
[12:43]but they write in your marriage husband.
[12:44]And she does that it, you know?
[12:45]Like, this is so important.
[12:46]I don't know.
[12:47]Yeah, well, also it's so people really tie it
[12:50]to your identity.
[12:51]And then I think you kind of get wrapped up in this idea
[12:54]that it's easy to get wrapped up in the idea
[12:56]that it is your identity and kind of tie to yourself worth.
[12:59]And that's kind of ridiculous.
[13:00]But I think we've all been there
[13:02]because people play so much importance on it.
[13:04]But I think if you're miserable in what you're doing,
[13:07]there might be other options.
[13:08]Yeah.
[13:09]Like, if people are like, oh, but I go,
[13:11]I dread this every day.
[13:12]Oh, yeah.
[13:13]There's a tipping point where you're like, no,
[13:15]it is the job.
[13:16]It is the industry or it is something about it,
[13:19]like, life's too short.
[13:20]Like, it's just figuring out where that line is.
[13:22]Definitely, definitely.
[13:23]I mean, I don't, I don't think you should be,
[13:25]I mean, I think you should be realistic about your job,
[13:27]but I also do not think you should be unhappy
[13:29]and miserable in your job every day.
[13:31]Because that's really soul-sucking.
[13:32]And then it kind of transfers to like other areas
[13:34]of your life and you're maybe like, you know,
[13:36]graduate with your kids or your spouse or whatever it is.
[13:39]Like, it's not worth it.
[13:41]And the thing about all these stories
[13:43]and what was so inspiring is all of these people
[13:46]came out more fulfilled, happier, definitely doing,
[13:50]you know, living the lives that they kind of
[13:52]always wanted to live.
[13:54]I mean, to me, what I realized after reading the book
[13:57]was it's not so much about a career change.
[14:00]I mean, it is, but for most of these people,
[14:02]it was really about changing their lives.
[14:04]So they wanted to live like a different kind of life.
[14:07]Like they wanted to live a life where they were more adventurous
[14:10]or they wanted to live a life where they felt like
[14:12]they were helping people or doing good in the world.
[14:16]They wanted to live a life where, yeah,
[14:17]they weren't having anxiety attacks, you know,
[14:19]in their office or miserable with their co-workers.
[14:23]And they were able to do it.
[14:24]So yeah, I mean, I do think being unhappy
[14:26]is a big motivator for a lot of people.
[14:28]And it is something to listen to as long as you're not
[14:31]like pie in the sky thinking your next career
[14:34]is gonna be perfect.
[14:34]And a lot of these people, you know,
[14:36]they're doing their dream job,
[14:37]but they're working harder and longer.
[14:40]Some of them are making less money.
[14:42]There is a couple in Inguela.
[14:44]They own restaurant Koveya,
[14:46]and they are actually working less, making more money
[14:49]and living in paradise.
[14:50]Yes, yes, and yeah, but it wasn't the case for most people.
[14:55]I love Simon Dune and this really funny quote
[14:57]in your book and said,
[14:59]if writing makes you unhappy and you procrastinate
[15:01]or have to drink scot in order to get going,
[15:03]then try something else.
[15:04]Writing should make you happy.
[15:05]I agree.
[15:06]No, it is.
[15:07]And that's a good quote kind of like,
[15:09]you know, to apply to anything if you're feeling
[15:13]and need to use substances to enter the day.
[15:16]Like maybe, maybe that's a big end.
[15:18]That's a sign.
[15:20]Like warning, like he's interesting too
[15:22]because he didn't write a word until he was 46.
[15:24]And I saw that.
[15:25]I didn't even realize that.
[15:26]I didn't either.
[15:27]I've interviewed him over the years
[15:28]and I know him and I ran into him.
[15:30]And I asked what I was working on
[15:31]and I told him this book and he said,
[15:33]well, you have to write about me.
[15:34]And I didn't know what he was talking about.
[15:36]He said, I didn't write until I was 46
[15:38]and I was like, all right, I'm so jealous
[15:40]because he has the best voice.
[15:42]And when you read his stuff, you know it's him.
[15:45]That's something that writers like spend their careers
[15:48]chasing after is having that kind of signature voice.
[15:51]And he's so witty and so clever
[15:53]and he makes it look so effortless.
[15:55]But for him, it just happened.
[15:57]I mean, he just was working on a book project
[15:59]that was supposed to be really visual.
[16:01]And when he wrote the introduction that it
[16:02]I was like, you need to write more.
[16:04]And then it became the same where he's now,
[16:06]you know, he gets up at five in the morning
[16:08]and he does all these books.
[16:09]And he does it in tandem with this career.
[16:11]He has it parties and he loves it.
[16:14]And the whole dual career thing, I think,
[16:16]is something that's an option for some people too.
[16:18]You don't have to give up one thing for another.
[16:21]A lot of people managed to do too.
[16:23]And you said you've written three screenplays
[16:26]in a novel and that you're disappointed
[16:28]that those students sell prior to,
[16:30]so what are they about just advocacy?
[16:32]Well, even the abridged version, whatever you wanna share.
[16:36]I mean, honestly, I think the first one I wrote
[16:39]was about like three sisters
[16:40]and I have a lot of sisters
[16:42]and I don't even remember what it was about.
[16:44]It was not, it was not good.
[16:46]At the time, I took six months off
[16:48]to just write a novel and I was obsessed with it
[16:52]and it wasn't any good to be honest.
[16:56]I know for a fact writing novels, that's just not my skill.
[17:00]I do think there's something with the whole screenplay thing.
[17:02]I was working on a screenplay
[17:04]which I need to revisit and this book
[17:06]has kind of inspired me to revisit about,
[17:08]and it's a similar topic.
[17:10]It's basically about a woman who is,
[17:12]everybody's kind of ghost songwriter
[17:14]and she has three kids and she's 40
[17:17]and she's suddenly says, you know what?
[17:19]I don't wanna be behind the scenes anymore.
[17:20]I wanna be the one singing my songs.
[17:23]So it's kind of how she does that.
[17:24]So especially with this book
[17:26]and what I'm writing about, I need to go back to it
[17:29]and I will, actually, I will.
[17:30]It's not something that I'm gonna kind of keep on the shelf.
[17:33]But the novels, yeah, that's not happening.
[17:36]And I had the same thing.
[17:37]I did.
[17:38]I was like, I'm gonna be a woman of self after business school
[17:39]and wrote a novel.
[17:40]Well, first it was a memoir.
[17:41]Then I changed everything.
[17:42]We wrote it four times.
[17:43]It became this convoluted novel
[17:46]and that also didn't sell.
[17:48]Yeah.
[17:49]But I was crushed.
[17:50]Yes.
[17:50]I mean, it was like so sucking crumbs.
[17:53]Absolutely.
[17:54]Called like failure.
[17:54]Like the biggest failure of my life.
[17:56]I didn't think I ever like,
[17:57]pulled like, I don't know about you,
[18:00]but I, like, I ran the marathon once
[18:03]and one of the pieces of advice I got was tell everyone
[18:05]you're writing the marathon
[18:06]and then you all back out.
[18:08]So I kind of did the same with my novel
[18:10]and I told everyone how sorry it was a novel.
[18:12]And then when it didn't work, it was definitely humbling.
[18:14]But it's like dining.
[18:16]Like, I'm trying this.
[18:18]I already told you.
[18:18]I'm trying this keto thing.
[18:20]Let's see how it works.
[18:22]Yeah.
[18:23]Yeah.
[18:24]Yeah.
[18:25]It doesn't know.
[18:25]I don't know.
[18:26]It doesn't.
[18:27]But, you know, I do think it's good to know,
[18:31]you know, what you're good at
[18:32]and what you're not not good at at the same time.
[18:34]And, you know, I actually am really,
[18:36]or at different times in life.
[18:37]I mean, like, for you, I don't know how long ago it was
[18:39]for you.
[18:40]Like, I wrote that almost 15 years ago.
[18:42]I think you changed.
[18:43]Right?
[18:44]You're supposed to change.
[18:45]Yeah.
[18:46]I mean, maybe if you wrote that book again today,
[18:47]it would be a totally different.
[18:48]But not the one about the sisters.
[18:50]Maybe you'd come up with,
[18:51]well, anyway, I'm getting off track.
[18:52]But I, I don't think that I can sit straight again.
[18:56]I don't know what else to do it, actually.
[18:58]Yeah, I feel like it's, anyway.
[19:01]So you also do a lot of travel writing
[19:03]and this book you did,
[19:04]who tells she get home,
[19:06]features cool hotels all over the world
[19:07]and how you can make your home,
[19:08]feel like more of a hotel and get that vibe
[19:11]and everything, which is such a good idea.
[19:12]Because every time I leave a hotel, I'm like,
[19:14]why is this so great?
[19:15]It's one room and I just, like, don't wanna leave, you know?
[19:17]I know.
[19:18]Is it the sheets?
[19:19]Is it the company?
[19:20]Like, what is it?
[19:21]What can you do for your home to make it have that same?
[19:24]Well, I think the whole idea behind the book
[19:26]is basically I was writing travel articles
[19:28]and I kind of realized that, you know,
[19:30]hoteliers have kind of figured out
[19:32]but especially boutique hotel owners.
[19:34]I've realized in the past 20 years
[19:36]that that's a way to distinguish themselves
[19:39]from the competition is with design
[19:41]and kind of creating these like magical universes
[19:44]where you like walk in and you feel like really hip
[19:46]or really glamorous or, you know,
[19:49]really sophisticated, whatever it is.
[19:52]And so to me, it's like find that hotel
[19:54]where you kind of have that feeling
[19:57]or just a picture of it, kind of a folks
[19:58]that feeling that you wanna create.
[20:00]in your own home and then, you know,
[20:03]crimps some of the ideas.
[20:04]I mean, for me, like in my bedroom,
[20:05]there's this hotel in Paris
[20:07]and they have these, like, kind of,
[20:08]inky, dark, kind of blue, green, gray walls.
[20:12]And I did that in my own bedroom
[20:14]and I was like, oh, it was really afraid
[20:15]to, like, paint a room, a dark color.
[20:17]And I did it and I've, like, never slept better.
[20:20]Is it's, like, a cave?
[20:21]It's amazing.
[20:23]So, you know, that's, like, a super easy idea.
[20:26]I mean, I did another, kind of, like, paint,
[20:28]color blocking thing in my son's room
[20:30]when he turned 12 to, like, make it more, like,
[20:33]teenager-y and, like, cooler, and it took me an hour.
[20:35]And I totally changed the whole space.
[20:37]So I think, like, because all these hotels
[20:39]have all these, like, super bold moves
[20:41]that, like, you aren't finding
[20:42]and, like, with residential designers,
[20:45]they're, like, full of inspiration.
[20:47]I think, you know, there's just so many ideas
[20:49]and so many things that you can take away,
[20:51]whether it's, like, color or fabric
[20:52]or, you know, really cool lighting
[20:55]or what soundtrack or some cocktail that you had,
[20:58]you know, when you were traveling.
[20:59]I mean, you know, we all want to, kind of,
[21:01]bring that feeling of being a vacation back home,
[21:04]like, we're all better when we're in hotel, to be honest.
[21:09]So, too.
[21:10]As you mentioned earlier, you do a lot of profile writing.
[21:13]And I loved even reading your one
[21:14]about Bobby Brown at home and her home design.
[21:17]And obviously, like, that was so cool.
[21:18]I never thought about how her home would look
[21:20]and it would probably reflect her overall aesthetic
[21:22]and everything.
[21:22]What do you think are some of the tips
[21:24]in writing a great profile about somebody?
[21:27]Or, like, what do you think makes a really good profile
[21:29]piece?
[21:29]To me, when people really open up,
[21:31]is when you ask them kind of what the challenges have been.
[21:35]Like, what the hurdles are, what the challenges have been.
[21:38]Like, what the reality was of, of kind of getting
[21:41]to the place that they're at.
[21:43]I think that that's when people really,
[21:45]I mean, often, unless they're, like, too media trained.
[21:48]Often, they'll, they'll really open up,
[21:50]especially with this book.
[21:52]Or, you know, probably anytime when I'm writing a profile,
[21:55]you know, I always say, look, you know,
[21:56]I'm so excited to talk about your story.
[21:59]But I also really want people to get some sort of, like,
[22:03]nugget that's gonna make them think differently
[22:05]or do things differently, or that maybe that they can
[22:08]follow a similar path.
[22:10]And then when people see that telling their story
[22:13]can actually be helpful to other people,
[22:14]then I think they're often more inclined to be open.
[22:18]I also, I'm pretty, you know, I'm not a bullshitter.
[22:20]And so I try and, like, convey that to people that, you know,
[22:25]that there's something to be said about, like, being honest.
[22:28]But I'm also really, I'm not, like, a gacha journalist.
[22:31]Like, I'm, you know, even with my celebrity profiles,
[22:33]like, every once in a while, celebrities have told me things
[22:35]where I knew it was gonna make, you know, like, paid sex.
[22:38]But I also sometimes I even didn't include it
[22:42]because it was, like, I knew what the they just weren't thinking
[22:45]when they said it.
[22:46]Mm.
[22:47]That's nice of you.
[22:48]Yeah.
[22:49]Yeah.
[22:50]I mean, it's probably, you know, I probably would be a more
[22:52]successful celebrity interviewer if I wasn't so nice.
[22:55]I feel like it takes it down to yourself.
[22:58]No.
[22:59]You're sitting here, I feel like you're like this model of production.
[23:02]You've had so many books written in, like, really good.
[23:05]And this book I just finished was amazing.
[23:06]And I've never been more proud of anything than this book, honestly.
[23:10]This has been, like, I mean, I had the idea 10 years ago.
[23:13]I've had it for so long.
[23:15]And, you know, my agent at the time told me it was a magazine article.
[23:19]And, but I never gave up on it.
[23:21]And especially, you know, I was at Yahoo, writing about, you know, wellness and beauty
[23:26]and doing a ton of profiles and I kept seeing this theme over and over again.
[23:31]And so I found a new agent and I told her about it.
[23:34]She really got it.
[23:35]And we ended up having, like, a bidding war over this book.
[23:39]And the night that I sold it, I sat at a restaurant and half an hour into it.
[23:45]My former agent who I hadn't seen in 10 years was literally sitting diagonal across
[23:49]me.
[23:50]It was this crazy bit of, I don't know what it was.
[23:55]It was not an accident.
[23:56]Carmen.
[23:57]It was.
[23:58]Did you do to go a real teller would have it?
[23:59]Yeah.
[24:00]I was like, you know, I'm cheer.
[24:01]I'm celebrating.
[24:02]I'm just sold my 11th book and, you know, I'd only sold one book with her.
[24:06]So I just really enjoyed the moment.
[24:08]Yeah.
[24:09]And so what's coming up next for you, what are you going to work on next?
[24:14]So I'm all in and promoting this book.
[24:17]This is kind of...
[24:18]Well done.
[24:19]I just, you know, part of the reasons why I think I was kind of a behind the scenes
[24:23]person for a long time is I was never that comfortable promoting myself.
[24:27]I just thought it just seemed so terrifying.
[24:29]And the idea of being, you know, telling my story or being on a camera was just so scary
[24:35]to me.
[24:36]And that doesn't help you when you're writing a book.
[24:39]And I think it was almost like it had to be like hammered home for me where I realized,
[24:44]like, okay, unless you're really good at promoting your own stuff and really good out
[24:48]there and, you know, feel comfortable calling every editor, every person you ever met
[24:53]that could possibly help with a book, then you kind of shouldn't be writing books.
[24:57]We're publishing them.
[24:58]Yeah.
[24:59]It's writing.
[25:00]Yeah.
[25:01]Yeah.
[25:02]Yeah.
[25:03]Right.
[25:04]Publishing them.
[25:05]Exactly.
[25:06]Putting them out in the world.
[25:07]So that's kind of my main focus.
[25:08]I do want to get back to that screenplay.
[25:09]I have an idea for a follow up to this book that I really want to write.
[25:10]I think there's a lot more stories to be told.
[25:13]And, you know, I definitely don't want this to kind of be the end of this series.
[25:17]I'm also starting to write a lot of career pivot pieces.
[25:21]I feel like that's going to be my niche for a little bit that and travel.
[25:25]I just can't give up the travel writing.
[25:27]Great.
[25:28]I mean, I get to go to great places.
[25:31]You do.
[25:32]You do.
[25:33]And that's how I travel.
[25:34]You know, go to places that maybe we wouldn't go to otherwise.
[25:37]Do you get to bring your kids?
[25:38]I get to bring my kids.
[25:39]I'm writing now.
[25:40]I'm a contributor at Family Traveler.
[25:42]So that's been great.
[25:43]One of my editors who is a travel measure and she worked with me at Yahoo!
[25:48]Laura Beckley-blum.
[25:49]She is now heading up that magazine.
[25:51]So I'm writing for her as often as I can, which is great.
[25:54]Excellent.
[25:55]Yeah.
[25:56]And do you have any parting advice to aspiring writers in there?
[26:00]Yes.
[26:01]I think the key is to get your work out there.
[26:05]And I think now you have the ability to do it with the web.
[26:09]I mean, you, you know, whether it's your writing for, I mean, so many of these content
[26:14]shops, like, they just want content.
[26:16]They're not paying people a lot for the online stuff.
[26:19]But that gives you an opportunity.
[26:21]They're hungry.
[26:22]They need people.
[26:23]So that's part of it.
[26:24]Also, you can launch it on website and have people see what kind of writing you do.
[26:28]Like, you know, start a lot of great book deals have come out of blogs.
[26:33]So I think you have the ability to get your work out there, showcase what you want
[26:39]to do before we had to kind of wait.
[26:41]We had to wait for like an editor to like take our pitch or like give us an assignment
[26:45]that would like showcase the kind of stuff we wanted to do.
[26:48]Like, I started out in design writing, which isn't really what I wanted to do.
[26:52]And I kind of kept, you know, but I really wanted to write like humor and I want to write
[26:56]about, you know, women's issues and I kept waiting for someone to like give me that opportunity.
[27:01]And it didn't really come.
[27:03]I had to make it for myself.
[27:05]I mean, and that took, you know, a lot of time to do.
[27:08]But now the whole landscape is different.
[27:10]So just do it.
[27:11]Really?
[27:12]That's that's really the bottom line is whatever it is you want to do is I think you
[27:17]need to prepare.
[27:18]I think you need to research.
[27:19]I think you need to connect with other people who have done it.
[27:21]I think you need to buy my book.
[27:22]Take the leave.
[27:25]Change your career, change your life by Sarah Bliss.
[27:28]When's it coming out December?
[27:29]December 4th.
[27:30]December 4th.
[27:31]December 4th 2018.
[27:32]Pre-order now.
[27:33]Holiday gift giving.
[27:34]Yes.
[27:35]Yes.
[27:36]I mean, I timed it for that.
[27:37]Oh, there you go.
[27:38]I timed it for that.
[27:39]But I did have one thing to say because, you know, I know your blog is called Moms.
[27:43]Don't have time to read books, but this is actually the perfect book for a mom because
[27:48]every essay is takes about five minutes to read.
[27:51]And sometimes that's all we have.
[27:53]So.
[27:54]I agree.
[27:55]I'm a huge fan of short chapters.
[27:56]Eventually.
[27:57]And this is great.
[27:58]And you have images and very visual, not just text.
[28:01]Yes.
[28:02]It's really great.
[28:03]You can choose.
[28:04]You don't even have to go in order.
[28:05]Exactly.
[28:06]There, yeah.
[28:07]Easy, fun read.
[28:08]It is.
[28:09]With a lot of helpful life advice.
[28:10]Yes.
[28:11]So there you go.
[28:12]Yes, sir.
[28:13]Thank you.
[28:14]Thanks for coming on Moms.
[28:15]Don't have time to read books.
[28:16]So fun.
[28:17]This episode has been sponsored by Bookhampton, Bookhampton.com.
[28:21]Thanks to Ryan and Steve at Texture Sound for the audio editing and mixing.
[28:25]Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.