Jill Zarin and Lisa Wexler, Authors of SECRETS OF A JEWISH MOTHER
[0:00]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:28]I'm really excited to be here today with Jill Zaren and Lisa Wexler, two sisters who are
[0:34]the co-authors along with their mother, Gloria Cayman, of the book Secrets of a Jewish
[0:38]Mother.
[0:39]Jill Zaren is a reality TV star.
[0:41]Her breakout performance was as an original cast member of the Real Housewives of New York
[0:45]City, which she was on for the first four seasons, and by the way, which I watched probably
[0:49]all of.
[0:50]She subsequently appeared on Celebrity Wife swap and many other shows.
[0:53]An entrepreneur, Jill established the Jill Zaren brand, which she has extended to bedding, shape
[0:58]wear jewelry, and rugs.
[1:00]Over a million social media followers, Jill is a frequently sought after speaker and personality.
[1:06]Her sister, Lisa Wexler, is a talk show host, a judge, an attorney, an advocate, and a public
[1:11]speaker.
[1:12]She hosts a Gracie award-winning radio show at the Lisa Wexler Show in Westchester and
[1:16]Fairfield County, and she was nice enough to have me on her show last year, which was
[1:19]like the sweetest thing ever.
[1:21]Lisa has appeared on the Today Show, Morning Joe, and many other local and regional TV
[1:25]programs.
[1:26]She's been elected three times to the position, probate judge for the Westport, West
[1:30]and District, and Connecticut.
[1:32]These co-authors wrote Secrets of a Jewish Mother, which is now in its third printing,
[1:36]and has been translated into four languages.
[1:39]These sisters are clearly a total dynamo.
[1:41]So, ladies, I just want to know first, how did this book, Secrets of a Jewish Mother,
[1:45]come to be?
[1:46]Who had the idea?
[1:47]Who decided what to do and how much to do?
[1:50]How much to write?
[1:51]So, Jill was in her second, end of second season of Housewives, and she said, I really
[1:57]think that we ought to do a book, which I translated as, Lisa, think of a book, think
[2:02]of a book, and I was, well, Lisa, write a book.
[2:04]Write a book.
[2:05]That's true.
[2:06]And my mother had been on, I don't know how familiar you are with the Housewives, but my
[2:09]mother wasn't much.
[2:10]I watched the early, okay, I watched the early, okay, so I was like, not interested.
[2:14]Thank you.
[2:15]Well, well said.
[2:16]So, anyway, my mother was on, and she gave this spiel about how life was really
[2:20]between Russia, Shoshana, and Passover, and how the years went so quickly.
[2:24]And it really resonated, really resonated with a lot of fans, and I didn't say that.
[2:30]I still get into that.
[2:31]And I was in the shower where all good ideas come, and it just hit me like a vault of
[2:34]lightning.
[2:35]And that's our book, Secrets of a Jewish Mother.
[2:36]Yeah.
[2:37]Right, we never had another name.
[2:38]Nope, that was it.
[2:39]And then, the idea of doing the format came and discussion with some, was actually my
[2:45]friend Virginia.
[2:46]Just going back to the book, like, I thought, because I'm on a TV show.
[2:50]And I think Luann had written a book, and I just thought that there's a lot, I could
[2:55]do it by, I could do an autobiography.
[2:57]I mean, God knows I could fill up volumes on that.
[2:59]Or I could do something with my mother and my sister, because for me, it wasn't about
[3:03]the money, where, of course, if I did it by myself, it would be, or I would get 100%.
[3:07]I wanted to travel and be with my sister and my mom.
[3:09]And we also share her.
[3:10]I'm a sheriff.
[3:11]She went on book tour together.
[3:12]Well, that was part of my problem with the Housewives, and General, because I wanted to
[3:15]share with the other girls, and I wanted them to share with me, but nobody wanted to share
[3:18]with me.
[3:19]Nobody wanted to play with me.
[3:21]And hurt my feelings.
[3:23]And that's kind of what happens on the show, really, because I wanted us to all, like, be
[3:26]a team, like, friends, how they really stuck together, negotiated together, did everything
[3:30]together.
[3:31]Housewives, oh, no, it was every man for himself.
[3:33]And I learned that the hard way.
[3:34]But I see how Jennifer Annston wants the friends to get together again and make a remake
[3:38]of the Golden Girls.
[3:39]No.
[3:40]That would be adorable.
[3:41]I did not know that.
[3:42]I did not know that.
[3:43]Yeah.
[3:44]Well.
[3:45]Is it?
[3:46]Well, even or not, the Golden Girls did the Golden Girls in their 50s.
[3:49]We look at them now as if they were in their 80s.
[3:51]Oh, yes.
[3:52]They were retired living in Boca.
[3:53]Yes.
[3:54]They were supposed to be in their late 50s, isn't it?
[3:57]Wow.
[3:58]So when you did the book, did you all get along?
[4:00]Well, yeah.
[4:01]We never had one fight.
[4:02]Well, because we'd let at least do everything.
[4:04]Ah.
[4:05]And so it's hard to fight with yourself.
[4:07]So Lisa, she can tell.
[4:09]Her friend helped her format, because you have so many questions.
[4:11]We'll get to this.
[4:12]My friend helped me format her.
[4:14]I wrote the book proposal.
[4:16]That did very well.
[4:17]It was unexpected.
[4:18]They were shocked that I could write.
[4:20]Remember, they wanted us to hire somebody.
[4:21]Yeah, it was something we would have a writer.
[4:22]Right, but we didn't.
[4:24]Right, we didn't.
[4:25]And so when we had the format down, which were basically
[4:29]a narrative and then stories and then
[4:31]and ask yourself section, that made it easy.
[4:34]We would collaborate.
[4:35]What are the stories we want to tell?
[4:37]I was at the time on the air between 9 and 10 p.m.
[4:40]and practicing law during the day.
[4:42]So I sat down at the computer, 10 o'clock, every single night.
[4:45]My show was on 8 to 9.
[4:46]I was on the, I was at the computer by 10
[4:49]between 10 p.m. and 3 a.m.
[4:51]I wrote the book from June 25th, which is when we had our
[4:54]formal proposal.
[4:55]I handed it on my mother's 70th birthday on October 13th.
[4:58]It had one rewrite and it was over by Christmas.
[5:01]That's insane.
[5:02]And what I would do was I would text Jill.
[5:04]Jill, do you remember when such and such happened?
[5:06]Because I don't remember anything.
[5:07]So she's in your own words.
[5:08]And then I said, I don't remember anything.
[5:09]So I said, oh yes, and then she would tell me who, where?
[5:12]And then I would write and that's why you hear her voice.
[5:14]Her voice really comes through.
[5:15]So does my mother's.
[5:16]So my sections are my words.
[5:17]Yeah.
[5:18]Exactly.
[5:19]No.
[5:20]For me.
[5:21]That's right.
[5:22]But you wrote all around me up and down left and right.
[5:23]One of the things that I like so much about this book,
[5:25]it was just so relatable.
[5:27]Like everything you said, I was like, oh my gosh, my mother said
[5:30]that, or this is really, I just, I kind of will tell you.
[5:33]I just kept like, what are some of the things that you remember?
[5:36]I mean, as you were reading it that you enjoyed, because we'd
[5:38]love to know.
[5:39]Probably have less than.
[5:40]No, I have a lot of different things.
[5:41]And I have a bunch of different quotes that I thought were amazing.
[5:45]One time when you were talking about worrying, you say, the Jewish mother
[5:49]lives to analyze and worry, the two being inexplicably intertwined.
[5:52]The Jewish mother is actually quite happy worrying.
[5:54]It's the default setting in her computer.
[5:56]I think so.
[5:57]That'll be so awesome.
[5:58]That's how I feel.
[5:59]I feel like that's my, yeah.
[6:00]I feel like it's fine.
[6:01]It is.
[6:02]It's like, this is my baseline.
[6:03]Yeah.
[6:04]I don't know.
[6:05]And I feel that way about our in-cookie, our in-cloria, our mother.
[6:08]And I think it's nowadays, if I were grinding that sense today, I was just going
[6:12]to say you just finished my today.
[6:14]I would probably say anxiety, because that's the new term of art for that feeling.
[6:19]But it's the same thing.
[6:20]It's like my grandmother keeps saying, I give you my worry, Gene.
[6:23]Right.
[6:24]I'm like, yeah.
[6:25]There actually is a gene.
[6:26]Yeah.
[6:27]There actually is a gene.
[6:28]And it's catching it.
[6:29]But don't you feel more at least.
[6:31]That's why my dog has anxiety.
[6:32]Yeah, no, given it's true.
[6:33]It's true.
[6:34]No.
[6:35]It's the disease of the age of our age, of the modern age.
[6:39]It's okay.
[6:40]You handle it well.
[6:41]Another thing that I loved when you talked about dating, I don't know which one of you
[6:44]wrote this, but you said you need to cycle through at least four seasons.
[6:47]That's true.
[6:48]With the same time.
[6:49]I know.
[6:50]I know what I said.
[6:51]That's true.
[6:52]It's a real, really compatible.
[6:53]And that's literally what my mother said to me when I started dating class.
[6:55]Really?
[6:56]I knew I wanted to marry him.
[6:57]And she's like Sivi.
[6:58]Just see him through the seasons.
[7:00]Oh, I love those.
[7:01]People change.
[7:02]And that's literally, it was like in the book.
[7:04]I couldn't believe it.
[7:05]I'm like that.
[7:06]I love it.
[7:07]I love it.
[7:08]But you have a little Jewish mother.
[7:09]I met her mom.
[7:10]Oh, yeah.
[7:11]She's a real Jewish mother.
[7:12]Oh, yeah.
[7:13]And the best way.
[7:14]And the best way.
[7:15]Another favorite was when you said your favorite fashion tip is always bring a sweater that
[7:17]Jewish mother is never with Victoria.
[7:19]That's Gloria.
[7:20]That's Gloria.
[7:21]That's Gloria.
[7:22]That's Gloria.
[7:23]That's Gloria.
[7:24]We literally grew up with that.
[7:25]And there was always one on the back seat of the car.
[7:27]Oh, yeah.
[7:28]Mommy always an extra sweater.
[7:29]Right in the jacket or something.
[7:30]Oh, you wouldn't know about cars because you grew up here.
[7:32]Oh, it's just the driving.
[7:33]It's the same thing.
[7:34]Okay.
[7:35]I always have.
[7:36]I can't drive her.
[7:37]I mean, no, but whatever.
[7:38]Another thing I wanted to talk about when I want to hear more about your feelings
[7:42]and women's friendships because you did a great job in the book talking about it.
[7:45]Care about that.
[7:46]And I just loved how you called them balcony friends versus friends.
[7:49]The audience.
[7:50]That's my audience.
[7:51]I got that from Amelia.
[7:52]You remember that.
[7:53]Yes.
[7:54]So what you're referring to so that the listeners can hear is that I believe that in your life,
[7:58]your friends are like an audience.
[7:59]You have people in the front row, you have people in the mezzanine, you're people
[8:02]in the balcony.
[8:03]And I used to say in life, like that Ramona was behind in the audience, but behind the
[8:06]pole, you know, block that you can't see the stage.
[8:09]And that was like a joke.
[8:11]But people shift.
[8:12]So like my friends, the people I met when Ali was in school.
[8:16]Those moms became like my front row friends because I saw them every day.
[8:19]We planned things together.
[8:20]We took holidays together.
[8:21]But then life changes.
[8:23]And then when your kids are out of the house, those people kind of fall to the ways.
[8:26]So I didn't know you've got maybe you pick up a sport like tennis.
[8:29]And then those tennis people become your friends and they move closer.
[8:32]Yeah, I believe that.
[8:33]You move around.
[8:34]You move them around.
[8:35]Sometimes you have to put them in the back.
[8:36]But we care.
[8:37]I mean, that friendship chapter took a lot out of us.
[8:39]We told real stories from the heart because I really do believe that when you've really
[8:44]loved a friend and we're talking about women, women friendships, you know, it's a love affair.
[8:50]And when there's a breakup, it's like a breakup.
[8:51]Oh, it's like a divorce.
[8:52]It was with, you know, as everyone knows, take it really hard.
[8:55]I don't know if you've ever had that in your life, but it's, it's a lot.
[8:59]It's a loss.
[9:00]It's a deep, sort of.
[9:01]That painful.
[9:02]And then of course a little bit of you always love that person, even if you can't be with
[9:05]that person anymore.
[9:06]Right.
[9:07]The things you miss about them.
[9:08]Yeah.
[9:09]Totally.
[9:10]Yeah.
[9:11]You also, the subtitle of this chapter was finding a friend is finding the best part of
[9:14]yourself and setting it free.
[9:16]Don't you feel that way?
[9:17]Pretty.
[9:18]That was Lisa.
[9:19]Nice job.
[9:20]Thank you.
[9:21]She's a good writer.
[9:22]And the other thing throughout all the chapters, including this friendship chapters, all
[9:26]the specific tips.
[9:27]Oh, where it's like that?
[9:28]Because these aren't just like general periods.
[9:31]We're very concrete.
[9:32]We were raised with a very pragmatically concrete mother, like no osmosis whatsoever,
[9:37]no guesswork.
[9:38]And by the way, I think that comes from the anxiety gene.
[9:41]Because the way to treat anxiety is to be very specific.
[9:45]Okay.
[9:46]That's, this is amazing.
[9:48]I have, I have a son with real anxiety.
[9:52]Husband too?
[9:53]Husband for sure.
[9:54]Yeah.
[9:55]Big time.
[9:56]Yeah.
[9:57]Well, I thought of you all because a friend of mine recently had surgery in your book.
[9:58]And said, call after surgery.
[10:00]Oh, yes.
[10:00]Like, not writing a text.
[10:01]Right.
[10:02]Not anything else.
[10:03]All of you took me advice.
[10:04]And was it appreciated?
[10:05]Yes.
[10:06]It better was.
[10:07]Better was.
[10:08]And you know what, in today's world, it's even rarer.
[10:10]Right, because nobody called.
[10:11]We wrote before the iPhone.
[10:13]You got to pick up a phone.
[10:14]So I've been trying to do a better job with that thing.
[10:17]Oh, good.
[10:17]Good, good, good.
[10:18]Good, good.
[10:19]I feel like I have these little clutches.
[10:20]You do.
[10:21]And you have a sounds to be done.
[10:22]Exactly.
[10:23]Oh, I wanted to talk about you were really nice about fathers.
[10:27]So there's all this talk about Jewish mothers.
[10:30]And the whole book is in the center.
[10:31]But right at the beginning, you said
[10:33]how the importance of a great dad and how your dad
[10:36]was such a mange.
[10:37]The most walking of a father has many successful women.
[10:41]He still is.
[10:41]Come from fathers who are amazing.
[10:44]Well, they say that a girl gets her self-esteem from her father.
[10:47]Yes, I believe that.
[10:48]Self-image.
[10:48]The feeling of being able to do anything and be anyone
[10:51]and be beautiful.
[10:52]And of course, beauty is incredibly important for women.
[10:55]Women have to feel beautiful.
[10:56]I think to be successful, to some extent,
[10:59]whether we are or not, there's a part of us
[11:01]that has to feel it.
[11:02]Because femininity and women and beauty are so intertwined.
[11:06]And how does that play into the dads?
[11:08]Do you think the dad has to make them feel beautiful?
[11:10]I think that dad does that.
[11:11]My father calls me all the time how beautiful I am
[11:14]and how smart I am and how capable I am.
[11:16]Always gives me, always the most, always the most.
[11:19]What do you think about all the latest studies
[11:22]that say, like, don't over-praise your kids?
[11:24]Well, it's what you're praising them about.
[11:26]What if they're praising them about how beautiful they are?
[11:28]It depends.
[11:30]It's a good point.
[11:31]No, no, it depends.
[11:32]So to say someone is beautiful in the way
[11:34]that we learned it with our father was always like,
[11:37]I look at your face and I see beauty,
[11:40]not that you're dressed up, not that you're wearing
[11:42]a pretty dress.
[11:43]Right, he would never comment on what I wore.
[11:44]No, it was like, I look at your face and I see beauty
[11:47]because I see you and you are beautiful.
[11:50]Shane, you can't overdo that.
[11:52]You can't overdo praising the essence.
[11:55]You can overdo praising false accomplishments.
[12:00]Well, being honest is, you know,
[12:02]you want to be honest with your kids.
[12:03]But to feel beautiful in your father's eyes
[12:05]because it's the most...
[12:06]It's the smallest time if it's different.
[12:07]It's different.
[12:08]You don't say this so smart all the time.
[12:09]Right, you know, if they get an 80,
[12:11]you don't say, oh, you're such a genius, you know?
[12:13]You're not such a genius if you got an 80.
[12:15]You might be one, but you're not working very hard.
[12:17]So it was very practical about that.
[12:19]In fact, my daughter, Joanna, who's now 25,
[12:21]says the biggest gift I ever gave her
[12:24]was never letting her win, which I never did.
[12:27]In Scrabble, in Jado, in Bagel.
[12:29]What?
[12:30]Cool.
[12:31]All the games that we play with us.
[12:33]Lisa's the intellectual house.
[12:34]They play bridge.
[12:35]Yeah, they play bridge.
[12:36]Yeah, they play bridge.
[12:37]But anyway, the point is I never let her win.
[12:39]I don't believe in letting kids win.
[12:42]I think they have to earn winning.
[12:44]Yeah.
[12:45]And eventually she's gonna beat me.
[12:45]Well, that's what's up.
[12:46]So do you think that all children,
[12:48]when they're in camp and they're five years old,
[12:51]should they all get a trophy at the end of the summer?
[12:53]Definitely not.
[12:54]Do you believe in participation trophies?
[12:56]I never got a trophy for any.
[12:57]Me neither.
[12:58]So we were never going to have a one.
[13:00]Right.
[13:00]And I still have it.
[13:01]I haven't gotten one tennis trophy.
[13:03]Kyle, you will.
[13:03]You will.
[13:04]You will, but you're on your way.
[13:05]And you will have earned it.
[13:06]And I will have earned it.
[13:07]So I don't have any.
[13:08]Well, I might have one that I do.
[13:09]What do you think, Zibi, do you like participation trophies?
[13:12]I don't love them.
[13:13]I don't.
[13:14]I have my son, my little guys, four years old, and every year.
[13:17]That's why I'm talking to you.
[13:19]We all go, and it's so nice to me.
[13:20]It's nice to participate, but you don't
[13:22]need a trophy for the school that we diggulous.
[13:25]It feels good, but what's the message?
[13:27]Like long-term, what's the message?
[13:29]Are you all the same?
[13:30]You're not all the same.
[13:31]You're not all the same.
[13:32]The kids already know who the best one is.
[13:34]I was always the last picked.
[13:36]When they used to go, you're the two captains.
[13:38]When you each got to pick, I was always picked last.
[13:42]And maybe that was a good thing in hindsight.
[13:44]Because I knew that I wasn't good at it.
[13:46]If it was where the coach did it and made everything equal,
[13:49]I might have actually thought I was good at something
[13:51]that I wasn't.
[13:52]I mean, I have to say I told Allison she could sing,
[13:54]and she was in chorus, and everything.
[13:55]And she's the worst voice you've ever heard.
[13:56]She doesn't have the worst voice.
[13:57]She is so great.
[13:59]I know.
[14:00]I like her.
[14:01]I like her voice.
[14:01]But because I kept telling her how great a singer
[14:04]she was doing that whole positive thing
[14:05]and putting her in chorus where they could drown her out,
[14:08]she was once singing in the cars and adult.
[14:10]And I said, Ali, you got to stop singing.
[14:12]Why?
[14:13]Ali, you don't hear yourself.
[14:13]You can't sing.
[14:14]What do you mean you told me I could sing?
[14:16]And she was serious.
[14:17]What do you mean you told me I could sing?
[14:18]I said Allison, I just said it because you were like in fifth grade.
[14:21]What was I going to say?
[14:22]You lied.
[14:23]I think she has a nice voice.
[14:24]How do you help the kid cope then?
[14:26]Then you have no ears.
[14:27]I have a good ear.
[14:28]All right, we'll do that again.
[14:29]OK.
[14:30]What do you do when your child is the last one picked?
[14:33]Because that's like a heartbreak.
[14:34]Nothing.
[14:34]It's a heartbreak.
[14:35]You just empathize with your kid,
[14:37]but you don't go to the school.
[14:38]That's for sure.
[14:38]No.
[14:39]Don't interfere.
[14:40]Don't interfere.
[14:41]You empathize with your child.
[14:43]You empathize, right?
[14:44]You put yourself with them and say that must be a good one.
[14:45]And you try to think, and you think about why?
[14:48]Did it happen because they are being socially rejected
[14:50]because of the way they're being perceived?
[14:51]I know part of it was me.
[14:53]And I went to therapy when I was a little girl
[14:55]because there was a reason that they weren't picking me.
[14:57]There's a reason why I couldn't get along with other kids.
[14:59]I had totally DD, and I was probably following the walls.
[15:02]But I didn't get along with the kids, I guess.
[15:04]For whatever reason, they didn't like me.
[15:06]And I know why I didn't get picked.
[15:07]And I used to pray for the softball never to get to me
[15:10]because I couldn't feel it.
[15:11]In other words, I was the worst.
[15:12]I had no athletic aptitude whatsoever, so I wouldn't play tennis
[15:16]as a kid, but I couldn't do any team sport whatsoever.
[15:18]But you know what was interesting when we were growing up?
[15:20]And you're younger than us.
[15:22]So you're probably Title IX a little bit.
[15:24]We had no Title IX when we were growing up.
[15:26]Title IX, Billie Jean King, equal money for women sports.
[15:30]So when we were growing up, there was no women's tennis team.
[15:34]I started soccer for women.
[15:36]I started in junior high school.
[15:38]And I wasn't even a good tennis player,
[15:40]but I thought, we need a women's tennis team, whatever.
[15:42]We lost every year, I don't know.
[15:43]The point is that there wasn't pressure on girls
[15:47]to be graded everything in a way.
[15:50]Nowadays, girls have to be athletic and smart and everything.
[15:54]And I don't know how it's playing out.
[15:56]I think it's in general.
[15:56]I think it's good for girls.
[15:57]Because girls feel like they also need a sport now.
[16:00]Yeah, we didn't have to do that.
[16:01]That was one thing we really didn't have to do now.
[16:03]That's one of those misleading things that I've
[16:05]childhood because now is it grown up.
[16:07]You don't even know who's athletic anymore.
[16:09]You don't even know if you're friends.
[16:11]I mean, you know you're close friends if they put tennis.
[16:13]Nobody cares.
[16:14]There aren't a lot of other sports.
[16:15]We're not all picking up our lacrosse sticks.
[16:16]No, of course not.
[16:17]Workplace any of those games.
[16:18]But nobody does that.
[16:19]Jim, by the way, do they have Jim anymore?
[16:21]They have Jim.
[16:22]Well, have they cut that out of the program?
[16:23]It depends on the school.
[16:25]Not every day.
[16:26]My daughter doesn't have it every day.
[16:27]We had it every day.
[16:28]Yeah.
[16:29]They don't have it every day.
[16:30]That's how we let out our steams.
[16:31]Yeah.
[16:32]And you look at pictures of kids in the 60s and 70s
[16:33]we were thinner.
[16:34]It was a thinner generation.
[16:35]Well, yeah, because they didn't have it.
[16:37]No, because they didn't have it.
[16:38]So, and snacks in the, do you know that the public schools
[16:40]have McDonalds and brands in the state of mind?
[16:44]I mean, we, our kids like private schools
[16:47]because we live in New York City.
[16:48]But in general, around the country
[16:50]that they had these fancy food.
[16:51]I would shock the first time I saw it in my kitchen.
[16:53]I could hold those as we used to bring our lunch at the school.
[16:55]It was nothing.
[16:56]That was like 1922.
[16:57]Can I ask a little about the show?
[16:59]Yeah, of course.
[17:00]Yeah, I feel like I just wanted to know
[17:02]how you went from being an upper-side Jewish mother
[17:06]like everybody else.
[17:06]And the upper-side to then being a real housewife.
[17:09]I have no for whom I do.
[17:10]If I did, you know I did, and your daughter,
[17:13]and even you and your family.
[17:14]And I packed on everything.
[17:15]Well, I can't say that Lisa said not to do it.
[17:18]I did.
[17:18]OK.
[17:19]I did?
[17:20]And adamantly, and my mother said, don't do it.
[17:23]It could only be bad.
[17:24]We were afraid.
[17:25]Yeah, I did it.
[17:26]We were afraid.
[17:26]By the way, afraid of things like what happened to Theresa.
[17:29]And show of showing money or not that I did anything wrong,
[17:34]you know, with the IRS or anything like that.
[17:36]Thank God, because if I did,
[17:38]that would have been on me.
[17:39]I would have been all over me.
[17:41]And maybe they were.
[17:41]And I don't even know.
[17:43]You know, maybe they did look into us.
[17:44]And they didn't think we were afraid of the unknown.
[17:47]We were afraid of the exposure I thought.
[17:50]And I still feel the swaying Jill knows of Allison.
[17:53]I feel that all the children I will say that publicly,
[17:56]all the children in these reality shows
[17:58]are being exploited in their real life for their real life.
[18:01]All right, I think that until you're married,
[18:03]you have your life set, it's not a good idea
[18:05]to be on television, just in general.
[18:07]Because it will affect your trajectory, for sure.
[18:10]And is there anything you feel like you can do to protect her?
[18:13]Well, I did.
[18:14]I mean, first of all, Allison protected herself.
[18:17]Are you watching Dirty John, the new series on Broadway?
[18:19]No.
[18:20]What's it about?
[18:20]Good.
[18:21]Well, it's about a woman who met a guy online dating
[18:24]and it turns out that he's a fraud and a criminal
[18:26]and all these horrible things.
[18:27]Like it's so cliche, but it's a true story
[18:28]and it really happened.
[18:30]And he married this woman and then she found out.
[18:32]But the point is that in the show, she has a daughter,
[18:35]just like Allison.
[18:37]But worse.
[18:38]Like she's more of a character, true of Allison.
[18:40]But when I said Allison, I think I found you a doppelganger.
[18:43]Watch Dirty John, and then she came back and she goes,
[18:45]oh, yeah, that's me.
[18:47]I mean, in the show, the girl's very kind of mean about it,
[18:50]but she's a protector of her mother.
[18:51]She right away didn't like the guy.
[18:53]Said to her mother, get rid of him.
[18:55]The mother, of course, was smitten.
[18:57]She hires an investigator and she hires a lawyer.
[19:00]But so what about Allison and how to protect her?
[19:03]So Allison has always had a very good head on her shoulders,
[19:07]also being an only child, being around adults probably more
[19:10]and living in New York City, all those things
[19:12]that she self-regulates.
[19:14]You know, Ali kind of didn't want to do the show.
[19:16]Yeah.
[19:17]She wasn't the first year or two.
[19:18]Well, the first year didn't count
[19:19]because nobody knew what we were doing.
[19:21]It was just like having a camera.
[19:22]The camera became a hit though.
[19:23]When the show aired it counted,
[19:25]but I'm saying when we filmed it, that doesn't count.
[19:26]And that's when she filmed the most.
[19:28]After that, and we saw the show pulled her back.
[19:31]So when was she there?
[19:32]She was there at an all cast event at a dinner.
[19:34]She was never part of story line.
[19:35]She still gives you a hard time about the detox.
[19:38]Right, but that was season one.
[19:39]Was that season one?
[19:39]Season one, episode one.
[19:42]So it was like, yeah, or episode two.
[19:43]It was the very, very, very, because we started in the summer.
[19:46]Okay.
[19:47]So it was definitely episode one or two.
[19:48]I didn't realize that that was the first time.
[19:49]So I mean, I can't take it back.
[19:51]If I could, I would.
[19:52]If you just would, I would take off that scene absolutely.
[19:55]I thought it was good at the time.
[19:56]I think there were good things that happened.
[19:57]I think that it taught people that there are,
[20:00]Things like that around.
[20:01]I think a lot of people who are cool to her
[20:02]on social media failure.
[20:03]Oh, yeah, they call 10 names in fat and horrible things.
[20:06]Oh, yeah, yeah.
[20:07]So I think for the children, and Jill and I've spoken about it.
[20:09]It wasn't about where Ali was on children or also not.
[20:11]What's the word, compensated?
[20:13]They don't get paid.
[20:13]We feel that the sag that they've been just missing
[20:16]in terms of the child actors.
[20:17]I mean, if I had my way in whatever resources I would have had,
[20:21]I would think that sag is completely asleep.
[20:23]All these kids in reality shows are not protected
[20:26]the way professional actors are, and they should be.
[20:28]That's a good point.
[20:29]Well, there's no union.
[20:30]They should be.
[20:31]But the children deserve it.
[20:32]If reality had children deserve it.
[20:33]If there was unionization and reality I've been told,
[20:36]then they wouldn't have reality.
[20:37]Like if that's right.
[20:38]Because they'd have to pay people.
[20:39]Right.
[20:40]But I would be just way too close.
[20:41]That's how they got away at you.
[20:44]But think about all the kids who had to act,
[20:46]the Jackie Cooper generations, et cetera,
[20:49]and they started these children union protections
[20:52]because they felt their life was worth.
[20:53]But at least it was a persona for these other children.
[20:56]It's not a persona.
[20:57]It's really their life.
[20:58]So when a family films a therapy session,
[21:01]and the child is there, and a child's consent
[21:04]is not able to be given because they're underage.
[21:07]So by law they can't even give their consent.
[21:09]But the camera is taking away a piece of their childhood.
[21:13]That's wrong.
[21:14]That's wrong.
[21:14]It's sort of similar when authors write these really
[21:18]invasive memoirs about their kids too.
[21:21]With four of their kids can really,
[21:22]before they hold enough to say, you know what?
[21:24]I don't know if a country will do that.
[21:25]But I don't want you to talk about that story.
[21:26]And that would be like me telling the story
[21:28]that I was talking about before, but any kind of story
[21:32]and writing it without, if she was under 21.
[21:34]Because even if she told me it was OK,
[21:36]she may not in 10 years.
[21:37]So we'd really have to be consensus in adult.
[21:39]But overall, I mean, I have to say,
[21:41]I think Allison's happy she did the show.
[21:43]She definitely benefited from it,
[21:45]whether she wants to admit it or not.
[21:47]I think she likes being famous.
[21:48]I think she like, like I said, admit it or not.
[21:50]She'd be like, you know, I don't want to say pretentious
[21:52]and pretend.
[21:53]But you know, she's cool.
[21:54]She's cool.
[21:55]And she's chill.
[21:56]And she's found her way in the world of art now
[21:59]that she has a big social media following of her own.
[22:01]Yeah, she has about 100,000 people on her.
[22:02]And she does beautifully with that.
[22:04]Yeah.
[22:05]But what Allison, like I said, has always been very mature.
[22:08]And she's got to feed on the ground when it comes to you.
[22:10]Yeah.
[22:11]And the show, like, you know, what's real and what's not.
[22:13]We also, she was always better at that than me.
[22:15]I always, the blind was very blurred from me.
[22:17]Yeah.
[22:18]That's still us.
[22:19]Yeah, I know.
[22:20]So it's so crazy.
[22:22]So to get off of Allie for a sec,
[22:24]as much as I think she's amazing.
[22:26]One more thing from the book, because I know
[22:28]we're almost done with our interview.
[22:29]But when you wrote in the book that Jews like to work for themselves
[22:32]more than for other people, you said,
[22:34]we'll be perfectly honest.
[22:35]Jews prefer not to work for other people
[22:37]because we do not like being told what to do.
[22:39]Have you ever tried to tell a Jewish mother what to do?
[22:42]I'd love to.
[22:43]That was like so proud.
[22:44]I felt like you guys were just talking to me.
[22:45]Yeah.
[22:46]So what do you think about that?
[22:47]Well, look at you.
[22:48]You've got your own podcast you're working for yourself, right?
[22:50]We have a pretty high rate as a group of people of entrepreneurship.
[22:53]I don't think that will ever change.
[22:55]And in terms of, yeah, Jewish mothers,
[22:57]we now had to take command and control.
[23:00]You know, when I think of all the men that I know in my world,
[23:02]they're all onto.
[23:03]They're all either.
[23:04]They could be a die professional, a doctoral lawyer.
[23:06]It doesn't mean they don't work for someone else.
[23:07]They could work for a law firm or a hospital.
[23:09]But there's still their own boss, so to speak.
[23:12]Everybody I know, really, is an honest time.
[23:13]My son is trying.
[23:14]Yeah, he left his job without a job.
[23:17]I know.
[23:17]He's a son.
[23:18]He's a son.
[23:19]He's fun and Goldman Sachs is his living house.
[23:21]Very fancy.
[23:23]A five-step capital management.
[23:25]Yeah, very excited for him.
[23:26]Very exciting.
[23:27]It's great that you called the book Secrets of a Jewish Mother
[23:30]because it's not like some of the other books are very
[23:33]dogmatic and what you have to do as a parent.
[23:35]And you understand your audience completely, right?
[23:38]Like, we're not going to listen if somebody else is like,
[23:40]that's why it has asked yourself.
[23:42]That has it asked us a lot of it itself.
[23:44]Cards and a lot of it is to ask.
[23:47]We want to start a conversation.
[23:49]Yeah.
[23:49]I love in the book that stuff about medical, obviously,
[23:52]because Bobby was sick.
[23:53]You know, a lot of people ask me for referrals for doctors
[23:55]and things like that.
[23:56]And it's like it's right in the book.
[23:57]It is right in the book, how to find a best doctor.
[23:59]And it's really good.
[24:01]I was like, did you read it?
[24:02]Oh, my God.
[24:02]I would just laugh so hard.
[24:03]I mean, was it true?
[24:04]One of the craziest things when we got together
[24:06]is like everything I'm like, we're going to this doctor.
[24:08]Now you're going to go to that day.
[24:09]You're going to get, he's like, what's with all the doctors?
[24:12]That's just like, I was like, see?
[24:14]Yeah.
[24:15]It's not just you.
[24:16]And my mother has, what does she call it?
[24:18]A diploma?
[24:19]No, I have a diploma.
[24:21]DWD?
[24:21]I call myself a doctor without a diploma.
[24:23]DWD, DWD.
[24:24]Oh, yeah, we could pay our doctors for that point.
[24:27]Absolutely.
[24:28]Yeah.
[24:28]So what is next for you guys?
[24:31]What's coming up next?
[24:32]Well, my big thing right now is my rug line,
[24:34]which I'm really proud of.
[24:35]I've done different things, and I've loved everything
[24:38]I've done, but I love this the most.
[24:40]I may be because it's the right now.
[24:42]The rug is the most unbelievable product.
[24:44]I just have to be.
[24:45]I just have to give the kudos for it, because after Bobbi died
[24:49]and around that time, I moved into Jill's apartment
[24:52]with my dog's sugar.
[24:53]And she had chicken and ginger, so we had three dogs
[24:55]in the apartment, plus what's her name had her own dog, too.
[24:58]Yes, yes, thank you.
[24:59]Thank you.
[25:00]So anyway, there were four dogs in the apartment.
[25:02]And the dogs were doing what dogs do, right?
[25:06]And so they were also vomiting and peeing and pooping
[25:09]everywhere.
[25:10]And I thought that Jill would at one point raise her voice
[25:13]to be upset because it was a brand new redone apartment.
[25:15]And as it turned out, it was not a stain at the end of 10 days
[25:18]because all of these brand new rugs, you take a paper towel
[25:21]and you sit, it's gone.
[25:22]And it doesn't go through, like you can spill water on it.
[25:25]And you won't, it doesn't go to the padding.
[25:26]No, it's unbelievable.
[25:27]So I replaced all the rugs in my house.
[25:29]Thank you.
[25:29]They did.
[25:30]It did.
[25:31]They look good.
[25:31]They look great.
[25:32]Any more books?
[25:33]Whatever.
[25:34]Well, I've started a few.
[25:35]Yeah.
[25:36]Yeah.
[25:36]I've started a few.
[25:37]This is the writer.
[25:38]But I also want to write it.
[25:38]I want to write it.
[25:39]This is the writer.
[25:40]I want to write it.
[25:41]The other half of my life with your fans don't know is I've
[25:43]been a probate judge now for five years.
[25:44]I just got reelected to another four-year term.
[25:47]And I write opinions every day.
[25:49]I write decrees every day.
[25:50]This morning, I was in a mental hospital committing somebody.
[25:54]I have a very real serious life.
[25:56]The other part of my life.
[25:57]This is my creative life.
[25:58]My hospital is because it's a friend of you.
[26:01]Anyway, so this is my wonderful, I adore this part of my life.
[26:04]I would love to do another project with you.
[26:06]We've been asked to write an addendum because to keep the world
[26:10]like on iPhones.
[26:10]Like how would we deal with the digital world?
[26:12]That's not in here.
[26:13]It needs to be.
[26:14]And it needs to be.
[26:15]I'm not even sure we should know.
[26:16]I'd like to hear what mommy says.
[26:17]My mother doesn't have a cell phone.
[26:19]She's the only person left on the planet without a cell phone.
[26:21]Which means she can't be tracked.
[26:23]Which isn't bad.
[26:24]No, it's not bad, except it's annoying when I can't find her.
[26:26]Yeah, but you know what?
[26:26]She's by the bed all the time.
[26:28]She's always in bed.
[26:28]She's always in bed.
[26:29]She's been in bed.
[26:30]She's been inside an easy room.
[26:31]Actually, she's easy to reach the we are by far.
[26:33]You know what?
[26:34]That was so great growing up that I could always call home
[26:36]because we didn't have cell phones.
[26:37]And my mother was always there.
[26:40]Sit on the bed.
[26:41]You mean, we talked about sit on the bed.
[26:42]She's always in the bed.
[26:44]I have a great picture of us in the bed in my bed.
[26:46]We were bed people.
[26:47]Are you bed people?
[26:47]Not like your mom.
[26:49]Yeah.
[26:50]Kids don't all jump in the bed and they're all in all the time.
[26:52]Yeah.
[26:52]Well, yeah, in the middle of the night, unfortunately, yes.
[26:54]Put it out a little while.
[26:55]Yeah.
[26:55]So we were in the middle of the day.
[26:57]We were in the middle of the day.
[26:58]We're still in bed.
[26:59]I think we're in bed people.
[26:59]We're bed people.
[27:01]I have some great pictures of us.
[27:02]Yeah, that's what we'll go in the next book.
[27:03]Yeah, the bed.
[27:04]The bed pictures over the years in the bed.
[27:07]With me, Lisa and Joanna stayed with me for like two weeks.
[27:10]Yeah.
[27:10]And I didn't leave her side.
[27:11]I took a picture of the four of us.
[27:13]The job is not great.
[27:15]And the job is in bed.
[27:16]Yeah, that was great.
[27:17]You were great.
[27:18]I would never leave you aside.
[27:20]Ever.
[27:21]I love my sister.
[27:22]I love my sister.
[27:23]Yeah.
[27:24]Don't always like each other.
[27:25]No, just kidding.
[27:26]I know.
[27:27]Not really.
[27:28]Yeah, I do.
[27:29]OK.
[27:29]Do you have any last parting words as advice
[27:32]to aspiring writers, particularly people?
[27:34]Oh, so hard to get a book published today.
[27:38]Yeah, but it's really hard.
[27:39]The self-publishing is a problem for distribution.
[27:41]It becomes a real vanity project.
[27:43]So you're top 20 friends by it on Amazon.
[27:47]You know, I think the best advice is the JK role in advice.
[27:50]You've got to be persistent.
[27:51]You can't give up.
[27:53]And most authors do.
[27:54]Well, I always say, if you don't take no finance,
[27:56]then the answer will never be no.
[27:57]I like that.
[27:58]That's a good one.
[27:59]I have a take no for an answer.
[28:00]That was you, Julie.
[28:01]Yeah.
[28:02]Very persistent.
[28:03]Very persistent.
[28:04]That's the answer.
[28:05]I love it.
[28:05]Talk about it.
[28:07]Thank you, book so much for coming on.
[28:09]Thank you, Zippy, for asking about it.
[28:10]Congratulations on having your own party.
[28:12]Thank you.
[28:14]This episode has been sponsored by Bookhampton.
[28:16]Bookhampton.com.
[28:18]Thanks to Ryan and Steve at Texture Sound for the audio
[28:21]editing and mixing.
[28:22]Thanks for listening to Momstone.
[28:23]Have time to read books.