Laurie Gelman, YOU'VE BEEN VOLUNTEERED: A CLASS MOM NOVEL
[0:04]Hi, this is Zivi Owens and you're listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:09]I'm excited to bring you today's episode with Laurie Gellman, which I actually did at
[0:14]a book club event that was hosted by one of the co-founders of a company and a podcast called
[0:20]the Idiomix.
[0:21]The podcast is called the Idiomix Hustle, Sumita Jayanti and Anna Cortez founded this
[0:26]and invited me to host this book club and I brought Laurie Gellman with me and it was super
[0:31]fun.
[0:33]And now her book, you've been volunteered as finally coming out.
[0:36]So I just wanted to explain where this episode came from.
[0:40]Also, I wanted to let you know that I've recently been, I don't know, accepted.
[0:44]I guess is the right word as an Amazon influencer, which means I have my own storefront
[0:48]on Amazon now through which you can enter and shop your hearts away.
[0:52]I've organized all the books into friendly sorting mechanisms like hilarious books and
[0:57]and tear jerkers, fiction, literary fiction.
[1:00]So I hope that you'll check out the Amazon store.
[1:03]It's on my website, zibbyowens.com and it's on my Instagram bios at zibbyowens and at
[1:10]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[1:17]I'm offering anyone who signs up personalized book recommendations, which hopefully will
[1:21]be a draw.
[1:23]So anyway, enough of that now, please listen to my episode of Lori Gellman, who is hilarious
[1:28]and amazing.
[1:29]Thanks.
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[2:32]So welcome, Lori.
[2:33]Thanks for coming on mom's Don't Have Time to Read books.
[2:35]Thank you.
[2:36]It's exciting to be here.
[2:37]And as you know, we're in scars y'all doing a live event today, which is an experiment
[2:42]with the podcast.
[2:43]So thanks for being willing for discipline in this.
[2:45]Not a problem.
[2:46]You keep my F-bobs to a minimum.
[2:47]And if my daughter's like, you keep saying explicit on your podcast, it's not letting
[2:52]me listen.
[2:53]And I'm like, don't eat free of me.
[2:56]So Lori Gelman is the author of Class Mom and the upcoming novel called You've Been
[3:01]Volunteers, a Class Mom, No.
[3:03]Lori is a former U.S. and Canadian television personality who started her career as a
[3:08]traffic reporter in Toronto.
[3:10]The radio ended up on the CBS Early Show and hosting The Mom Show.
[3:15]was shortlisted for the 2018 Stephen Leecock Medal for Humor and won the
[3:20]Vine Award for Canadian Jewish Literature. Who knew? Who knew? Who knew? They had
[3:24]nothing there was, but I know. She currently lives in New York City with her husband
[3:28]and two children. So welcome, Maury. Thank you very much. So can you please start by
[3:31]telling everybody what class mom is about and also you've been volunteered in
[3:35]what inspired you to write these books? Well, class mom is about the mother who
[3:39]volunteers in the classroom to help out, you know, everybody and my
[3:43]character, Jen Dixon, was a mom very early in her life. She had a crazy ride
[3:48]through Europe following the band in excess and she had two kids by two
[3:53]different band members and then she finally came back to the United States and
[3:57]she raised her kids and then she met the man of her dreams and she had another
[4:01]kid. So she has girls in college and one starting kindergarten, which is an
[4:05]unique and interesting place to be. So she gets roped into being class mom and
[4:10]she decides that this time around, you know, when her kid is, she's not going
[4:14]to take it seriously. She's going to try to have fun with it. She's going to make
[4:17]everybody else have fun too by, you know, showing a lot of humor and and with
[4:22]and not everybody loves her snarky sense of humor. I did. I did. I did. I do too.
[4:28]Anything based on a space on, I mean, I didn't obviously have two kids but two
[4:32]different band members that I know of, but I did become class mom for five
[4:36]soul-sucking years. I don't know anybody else. Class mom. Yeah. Okay. So and I
[4:41]was fired in my fifth year as class mom. Yes, fired as class mom because I wrote
[4:47]a snarky email as per usual and this one mom had never had me as class mom
[4:51]before and she was really offended and she went to the head of the PA and said,
[4:56]you know, I want her fired and then they said, they just said, okay. So they came
[4:59]to me and they said, you're fired. And I was like, from a job I didn't want that I
[5:03]volunteer for anyway. Like, okay. You know, no problem. So I wrote a book about it.
[5:08]Ha ha ha. That's pretty much the class mom. So tell me about what happened
[5:14]between being fired and this book arriving here. How did it become a book? A lot of
[5:20]tears. A lot of, you know, no, I really, I mean, it hurt. It was, it was really, you
[5:24]know, I was doing what I thought was a great job. I put my heart and soul into it.
[5:28]I would give awards at the end of the year for mothers like the mother who
[5:31]responded the fastest to my emails. You know, just any little thing that the
[5:35]most spirited mom that, you know, I give out Starbucks gift cards and I really
[5:40]wanted to make it fun. I wrote songs that, you know, in my emails that you had to
[5:44]like sing like it was an email about the Christmas concert, but you had to sing
[5:47]it to the tune of Santa Claus is coming to town if you really wanted to get it.
[5:51]You know, I put my heart and soul into it and to have somebody just like, you
[5:55]know, shut the door on me. I was really upset. But I drive my tears and then I had
[6:00]been thinking about writing a book anyway because I needed something else to do
[6:03]in my life. And I was complaining about the being fired thing to this man, my
[6:09]book agent. And he said, you know, that's your book. Forget about trying to
[6:12]write some self-help or, you know, mother parent. He goes, tell that story. So I
[6:17]did. That's great. I hadn't had you written before. We know I was a journalist for
[6:21]years. So I wrote just the fax man kind of stuff on television. But I'd never
[6:27]written fiction. So this was a real journey and it took me a long time. Yeah, tell
[6:30]me about the process. How long did it take? So did you write? Where did you write?
[6:33]I wrote at Starbucks every day. And well, here's the things. I started writing, you
[6:38]know, I wrote 20 pages in one sitting and I was like, Oh, it's got to write
[6:41]itself. And then I would, you know, go away for two weeks and come back and I
[6:46]go, I'm going to write a little more. And it wasn't getting finished. It just
[6:49]wasn't getting done. And I spoke to a writer friend of mine and he said, you
[6:52]have to treat it like a job. Like you have to show up every day and write whether
[6:56]you feel like it or not, whether you have any ideas, either rewrite or you
[6:59]write, but the two hours at least every day. So I started going to Starbucks every
[7:04]day for the same two hours, 88th and Broadway. And I wrote, and within I would
[7:09]say probably within a year of that, the book finally got, got done. So it was three
[7:15]years in the making altogether. Wow. And then what about the second book? Second
[7:19]book to less than a year. That's like, oh, I understand how to do it now. Now you
[7:24]show up and you write and you get it done. Like that's, yeah, I was really happy.
[7:28]And you said earlier when we were all chatting about how this is like your third
[7:32]act. Yeah. So how did you go from where you began to hear what caused you to shift
[7:37]gears? Well, it's kind of a funny story because I was working at CBS the early
[7:41]show and I was the pop culture correspondent. That was my lofty title. I was
[7:45]really the entertainment reporter. And I was, and just had my second child and I
[7:49]was interviewing Jude Law. And that's how I ruled back then. And I asked him
[7:55]a question. And then I was like, oh my God, did I forget to pop? And I'm
[8:00]literally in my head. Like my boobs started hurting. And I was like, wow,
[8:03]cheese. So he then I look at him and he's looking at me. He'd answer the
[8:07]question. And no idea what he said. And I realized like at that moment, I was
[8:11]like, you know what, my head is not in this game anymore. I really need to, you
[8:15]know, so I went back to the office and I said to my producer, like, is there
[8:18]anywhere I could be the parenting correspondent rather than that, you know,
[8:22]because this is what I'm really into. And he said, well, that's usually, you know,
[8:25]an expert who is, you know, you know, written books and has a PhD. And I said, I'm
[8:33]so in it. I couldn't even listen to Jude Law. Like I'm living it. Are you kidding me?
[8:38]I am the expert of the moment. But he didn't agree with that. So I, you know, I
[8:42]left the job. And I just went and raised my kids. And then when they turned
[8:45]teenagers, which is recent, they didn't really need me that much anymore. I was
[8:50]past my class mom days. And so I decided to write. It's awesome. So inspiring.
[8:55]Thanks. So Kelly Ripa said on her show that class mom was for every mom or
[9:00]dad who has a child in school and every parent considering being a class mom.
[9:05]You've been volunteered at the same audience. Is there anything different between
[9:08]the two books and how amazing was it to hear her say that? Oh, I mean, come on,
[9:12]nobody sells a book like Kelly Ripa. She mentions you, you know, you spike in
[9:17]your sales. It's crazy. My husband is the executive producer of Live with Kelly and Ryan.
[9:21]So that's why she would even, you know, look at my book. Yeah. And she's, she's a
[9:26]fan. She read both books. And she really liked it. The second one's a sequel.
[9:30]Yeah. In the first one, Jenna is just trying to get through being class mom. And
[9:33]there's a lot of other stuff that goes on in her life. The second one is three
[9:37]years later. And she's roped into being class mom again. But now she's also in
[9:40]charge of safety patrol, which for anybody who's ever done that is like the worst
[9:44]job ever. And hilarity ensues. Yeah, for Kelly to say that. And to mean it. And she
[9:49]said it many times that she I said yesterday, yesterday, I was on the show yesterday
[9:52]cooking. And she said it again. It was great. That's awesome. I also watched another
[9:56]clip from Live with Kelly and Rylan Kelly and Ryan.
[10:00]It doesn't, it doesn't follow up here.
[10:02]It's also where you're just like Kathy Lee did.
[10:03]Yeah, I know.
[10:04]So you had said that you had obviously drawn
[10:06]from your experiences in New York City
[10:08]to write both of these books,
[10:10]but you decided not to set your books in New York City
[10:12]because you felt like a free side mom's
[10:14]have had enough views and then on the show
[10:16]they were like before a free side mom.
[10:18]Oh, no, I know.
[10:19]They're like wiping their tears away
[10:20]and you're like the poor fleekered up for your side moms.
[10:22]So as an a free side mom, I just have to ask like,
[10:25]do you think a free side mom's get a bad rap
[10:28]and you think it's justified?
[10:29]What do you think?
[10:29]I think that the way they're portrayed in a lot of books
[10:32]is really like so outside what's really happening
[10:37]and there's so much negative sort of motivation
[10:41]in the books, these women are like they're power hungry
[10:44]or they're bored because they used to be lawyers
[10:47]and now they're housewives and they want to rule the world.
[10:50]It's kind of, I felt like everybody
[10:53]writes it so over the top and I wanted people
[10:56]outside of New York to enjoy the book.
[10:58]So I put it in Kansas City, Missouri,
[11:01]which is very, very close to the geographic center
[11:03]of the United States.
[11:04]So I figured if you start there in the middle,
[11:06]be low and sort of spread out, which and it has
[11:09]because it really is a universal FU
[11:12]to be the class mom.
[11:13]It really is.
[11:14]It's the most thankless job you'll ever do.
[11:16]And you've been volunteered.
[11:18]Jen goes out to dinner at first with a couple
[11:21]that her husband wants them to go to dinner with
[11:23]and the wife who she first thinks she's not gonna like it
[11:27]at all ends up saying that she is a SoulCycle-esque devotee
[11:33]and spinning and Jenna White.
[11:35]Spinning devotee tries to rope in Jen
[11:37]and at first she's like no way and then she goes
[11:39]and she loves it and then they go throughout the book
[11:41]and now they're doing doubles and blow up.
[11:42]So are you like a SoulCycle person?
[11:44]I have to ask, are you?
[11:45]I am a SoulCycle person.
[11:46]I was one of the first through the door.
[11:48]No way.
[11:49]That's 72nd Street.
[11:49]Yep.
[11:50]When nobody else was going there
[11:51]and it smelled like a vagina
[11:53]and it was like a tiny little box of a studio.
[11:57]I don't know if anybody ever remembers that,
[11:58]but it was and it's grown into this incredible
[12:02]international company.
[12:04]But if you get the right teacher
[12:06]and in the book, Jen finds the right teacher
[12:08]and they play the right music, you get very inspired.
[12:10]And I wanted to bring a bit of that to the book
[12:12]because that it's so much a part of what.
[12:14]I've had so many great ideas just being in a classroom
[12:17]and or a classroom in a spin room
[12:20]and this the instructor will say put your troubles
[12:23]on your handlebars and just like let them go.
[12:25]And I've had so many inspiring moments from that
[12:28]just like putting it here, listening to good music
[12:31]and then all of a sudden.
[12:32]I mean, once I had to jump off the bike
[12:33]because I had such a breakthrough,
[12:35]I had such a block and I had such a breakthrough.
[12:37]I was like, oh my God, I have to write this down.
[12:38]Maybe I actually jumped off the bike
[12:41]and laughed.
[12:42]I was impressed that Jen was finding all this time
[12:44]and also that you're finding the time to do it.
[12:46]I feel like working out is like the first thing to go
[12:48]for me.
[12:49]When I tell you something, it's the first thing
[12:50]you do in the morning.
[12:51]It's like any other thing.
[12:52]If you want it, you have to make an appointment,
[12:54]make it something that, you know,
[12:55]and I pay in advance so that's some motivation to go
[12:58]so I don't miss money.
[12:59]I always thought it would be cool
[13:00]to have a novel about all the different people
[13:03]because I always, when I'm in spinning,
[13:04]find myself wondering about everybody's stories,
[13:06]like what got them to that point
[13:07]where we're all together in the room like on these bikes.
[13:10]I've been ever had the coolest stories.
[13:11]I usually just find myself like crying when I go there.
[13:13]Do you have a cry?
[13:14]I have a cry like many times in this,
[13:16]but I don't think you've spun until you cry up,
[13:19]whapped or thrown up, either one.
[13:21]I love how you wrote in the book.
[13:22]You said, as I turned on the dishwasher,
[13:24]my phone rings, and I see it's a school calling.
[13:27]This is always the worst moment.
[13:28]In the time between seeing it's the school
[13:30]and picking up the phone, you die a million times
[13:32]with the fear that something has happened to your child.
[13:35]Literally, you're driving up here,
[13:35]we're assuming that like it's at her daughter's school name
[13:38]and I was like, you're school.
[13:39]You're like, it's not a horrible moment
[13:41]because you really don't know what it's gonna be.
[13:43]You know, in the preschool I went to,
[13:46]you pick up the phone, they'd say,
[13:47]hi, it's blah, blah, blah, me just fine.
[13:50]That was the first in the out of their mouth,
[13:51]which is so helpful because, you know,
[13:54]if you say, hi, it's nurse Mary Bass,
[13:55]and I'm like, yeah, what else, you know?
[13:59]I feel like sometimes they call though
[14:00]when everything's totally fine
[14:02]and it's like a false alarm.
[14:03]Well, sometimes they call just to tell you,
[14:05]you know, they're kid did something nice
[14:07]in school today.
[14:08]It's like, it's so great.
[14:09]Could you just email me that?
[14:09]Yeah, exactly.
[14:10]Because when I see, when the phone rings,
[14:12]it's like, just something else.
[14:14]You also make a lot of fun of sign up genius in this book.
[14:17]No, I'm happy to get sent to you.
[14:20]You're a fan, you're not a fan.
[14:22]Not a fan, not a sign up genius.
[14:23]I know it's like great and a lot of people use it
[14:25]and they love it.
[14:26]It never worked for me for some reason.
[14:28]I was just not capable.
[14:29]Well, I say it in the book too.
[14:31]I didn't realize that the emails
[14:34]that sign up genius sends you go into your spam.
[14:36]So you have to check your spam
[14:38]to see if anybody signed up for anything.
[14:40]It's so funny in the book
[14:41]because you keep being like, hello, anybody?
[14:43]Like, is anybody out there?
[14:44]It's like, what is going on?
[14:45]Who is signing up?
[14:45]It's just like, everything that you do
[14:48]takes what we all do every day
[14:50]and it just like makes it so funny and relatable.
[14:52]And anyway, thanks.
[14:53]I really loved it.
[14:54]You also have the acknowledgements you said.
[14:56]I have no one to think.
[14:57]I did it all myself.
[14:58]I absolutely don't know.
[14:59]Which, of course, obviously it's not true.
[15:01]Are there people like, what resources did you draw on?
[15:03]Do you have like a writing group ever?
[15:05]Or like, what have you drawn on?
[15:07]What's been most helpful to you
[15:08]in your writing journey of your life?
[15:10]I need feedback.
[15:12]I don't have a writing group.
[15:13]I'm not a group writer.
[15:15]But what I do is I write a bit
[15:17]and then I'll send it to people
[15:18]that I know will tell me the truth.
[15:21]Okay.
[15:22]First of all, send it to someone who I know will love it
[15:24]so that I get that.
[15:25]Okay, that positive.
[15:26]And then you send it to someone who you think will just
[15:28]give you some good critical feedback.
[15:30]And that is the most important thing.
[15:31]And I have like four friends who I do that to.
[15:34]And actually, Saranam is my editor.
[15:36]And she's here today sitting right over there.
[15:38]And I sometimes, like, she doesn't want to see it
[15:40]until it's done.
[15:41]She's like, I have so many other books to read.
[15:43]But I'm like, can you just read these 30 pages
[15:45]and let me know?
[15:46]Am I on a track?
[15:46]Am I going?
[15:47]Did you laugh once?
[15:48]You know, I'm a little needy in that way.
[15:50]I think, I mean, everybody's a little needy, right?
[15:52]I mean, it could be such a solitary thing.
[15:54]You're working, working.
[15:55]Like, what if it's not?
[15:56]It's like, I'm going to vacuum.
[15:57]I don't know if it's funny.
[15:58]I'm cracking myself up yet, you know?
[16:00]You know, who knows?
[16:01]I literally just sent out a newsletter last night
[16:03]because I wrote this thing.
[16:04]What you should not give your mom from other say,
[16:06]the books you should not give.
[16:07]Because I found all these books like people
[16:09]you want to punch in the face.
[16:10]And like, I was cracking myself up.
[16:11]And I was like, here you go.
[16:14]I'm cracking myself up.
[16:15]Like, nobody's laughing with me.
[16:16]But that's OK.
[16:17]I mean, as long as you make yourself,
[16:18]maybe someone else will laugh like that.
[16:20]So I thought it was interesting when I got this book originally
[16:22]how you have it a class mom novel.
[16:24]And I thought, OK, we're doing like a whole series here.
[16:26]Is that the vision?
[16:27]Are you doing like a whole?
[16:28]Well, hopefully one more, anyway.
[16:30]Because the book seems to come in three's, you know,
[16:34]Twilight, I'm trying to think about the trilogy.
[16:37]Although I could like ride this pony till it's dead,
[16:39]like that Harry Potter woman did.
[16:41]Yeah, and I'm books just, you know, keep going.
[16:44]God, I wish I had her success.
[16:45]But yeah, probably one more for now.
[16:47]And then we'll see, are you working on any now?
[16:49]Or are you just thinking about it?
[16:50]I've got her an outline for the third book.
[16:52]She's going to be in charge of the fundraiser.
[16:54]Oh, my gosh.
[16:55]Which is, I mean, I'm hitting all the hot spots.
[16:57]You know, the favorites.
[16:59]And then we'll see what happens after that.
[17:00]And have you thought about making this like a TV series
[17:03]or I think about it every day?
[17:05]Do you know anybody?
[17:07]My husband's a producer.
[17:08]I always think that he's really...
[17:10]So fine.
[17:11]No, it doesn't help.
[17:12]You're pretty.
[17:13]My husband was saying that he just started out
[17:15]like a couple years.
[17:15]Your husband's in a different spot.
[17:17]I guess.
[17:17]But I would love, and I think it reads like it could be
[17:21]a TV show for sure.
[17:23]But, you know, I think we have to sort of get on that.
[17:26]That's something you really have to focus on.
[17:28]Yeah.
[17:29]You know, selling it and getting it out there.
[17:29]And I'm just not in that headspace right now.
[17:32]I think it's neat because it's not, you know,
[17:34]there's like the odd mom-out type show, right?
[17:36]Where it like, pokes fun at the ridiculousness.
[17:38]But it's not, nothing like gets to the heart
[17:40]of the day-to-day craziness, like these books do.
[17:44]Yeah.
[17:44]I think it would be really cool.
[17:46]I mean, I would watch.
[17:47]What do you want me to do?
[17:48]Right? What do you want?
[17:48]Has anybody read class mom by any chance?
[17:51]Not a one.
[17:52]You got it.
[17:53]You read it.
[17:54]Okay, so can you just tell everybody it's funny?
[17:57]It is fine.
[17:58]Okay.
[17:59]And then my favorite line, and I've actually been using it
[18:02]because I'm very well competing is when she says something
[18:05]up being a PT environment.
[18:07]She's like, no, no, no, no.
[18:08]Just being a PT environment, I'm just saying something.
[18:11]No, no, don't thank me.
[18:13]Yeah.
[18:14]Sure.
[18:16]You even had in this book, there is a new family
[18:19]comes to town.
[18:19]And the sun is like being kind of odd and bringing in
[18:23]different show and tell type things every day.
[18:25]And the mom is acting a little loop,
[18:27]and you don't really know what's going to happen with them.
[18:29]And then they go on a field trip together.
[18:30]And you kind of talk about this secret club that her son
[18:34]has started that she didn't know about.
[18:35]And she like leaves the field trip.
[18:36]Yeah, she left the field trip.
[18:38]Well, like it's really happened.
[18:39]Yes, she left the field trip.
[18:41]I thought it was, you know, it's so funny.
[18:43]No, it's so funny.
[18:44]Because you know what, it's always the biggest mistake,
[18:46]but you tell a mother something that their kid did.
[18:49]And they did some of them.
[18:51]I always hope it's like really did my daughter say that.
[18:53]I'm so sorry, and I will beat her senseless
[18:56]when I get home.
[18:57]But kidding, not when I win.
[18:58]But this mom, sometimes she doesn't sound like, not my kid.
[19:02]There's no way they did that.
[19:03]So the mom finds out that her son is
[19:05]like instigating this private club or a secret club
[19:08]that they're not letting this one kid into.
[19:11]And she refuses to believe that it's her kid that did it.
[19:13]So I also like, it really is funny.
[19:16]I'm not giving it my own shot in here.
[19:19]No, it is really funny.
[19:20]I hope I'm communicate.
[19:20]It's really funny.
[19:21]Let's all love this.
[19:23]I feel bad.
[19:24]No, no, I should have read some funnier parts.
[19:26]And sorry, you also intersperse a lot of emails
[19:29]within the text of the book, which I think is great.
[19:32]And that it breaks it up.
[19:33]And it makes you keep reading.
[19:34]And we all read a million emails a day.
[19:36]But it also, it moves the plot a lot.
[19:38]Yes, it happens.
[19:39]There's no plot.
[19:40]I just say there's reason.
[19:40]How did you come up with that idea?
[19:42]Those are the emails that I wrote.
[19:44]Literally the same one.
[19:45]Well, you know, I had to change it for the plot of the book.
[19:47]But the first one in the first class mom book
[19:50]is verbatim, what I sent to my kindergarten class.
[19:53]And when I tell people that, they're usually pretty shocked
[19:56]because it's a very assertive, maybe when we're done,
[19:59]I'll read an email or two.
[20:00]Because maybe I was fired for a reason.
[20:02]You know, they're pretty shocking.
[20:04]Like I start when, hello losers.
[20:06]And I say, and I'm calling you losers because I'm the winner.
[20:10]I get to be head of safety patrol this year.
[20:12]So, but you have to sort of move on from being called losers
[20:16]before you're having read all the emails in the book.
[20:18]I'm now like shocked that those were actually good.
[20:20]Those were actual emails.
[20:22]And if you didn't think about this being fired thing,
[20:23]like, let me just say, I would I wanted
[20:27]more than anything else when I was a class mom,
[20:29]was for people to participate.
[20:31]You know, I see something from the class mom.
[20:32]I'm like, oh, it's probably cut and pasted from the PTA website.
[20:36]And it's just, you know, information.
[20:37]I wanted people to want to read them.
[20:38]So I started making it appointment.
[20:42]I don't say a program at television appointment reading.
[20:44]Like if you saw, it was from class mom.
[20:46]Oh my God, we got, let's see what she says now.
[20:48]And I had dads emailing me back.
[20:50]I've never read a class mom email before.
[20:52]I love yours there hilarious.
[20:53]I paid for years.
[20:54]That's why the firing was so, was such a knife in my heart.
[20:58]because after four years of doing this, you know,
[21:00]and everybody loving it and telling me how funny they were,
[21:03]the fifth year, you know, just piss off the run person.
[21:06]And you're done.
[21:09]So having gone through these two books
[21:11]and now I'm barking on your third,
[21:13]what advice would you have to someone else
[21:15]who's aspiring to write a novel?
[21:17]Well, make that appointment with yourself two hours.
[21:19]Go to Starbucks, go wherever, go wherever other things aren't.
[21:23]You have to be away from the things that distract you.
[21:25]I can never write in my house
[21:27]because all I see are the things I still need to do.
[21:29]That and write, I don't want to say, everyone says write,
[21:32]which, you know, write what makes you sing.
[21:35]Well, I write pisses you off.
[21:36]Write something that really you're passionate about
[21:38]because that's what's going to get you back to the table again.
[21:41]And again, on days when you really don't feel like it,
[21:43]just, you know, just keep it honest and fresh
[21:47]and just something that you really want to talk about.
[21:50]Well, thank you for coming on mom's turn attention to my show.
[21:52]It was mine, thank you.
[21:54]Thanks so much for listening to mom's and have time to read books.
[21:56]I hope that you enjoyed my episode with Laurie Gelman,
[21:59]the author of You've Been Volunteers,
[22:01]so go and purchase it now.
[22:03]Thanks again to my sponsor, Libro FM audio books.
[22:07]Thanks for listening to mom's don't have time to read books.
[22:09]You can follow me on Instagram at mom's don't have time
[22:12]to read books.
[22:13]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound
[22:16]for the sound editing.
[22:17]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[22:19]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[22:22]Thanks for listening.
[22:23]You could always email me at zibiadzibiowans.com.