Michele Filgate, WHAT MY MOTHER & I DON'T TALK ABOUT
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the webinar-nominated podcast,
[0:12]Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books. This episode of Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books
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[0:31]I'm interviewing Michelle Filgate today who's the editor of The Anthology, What My Mother,
[0:35]and I don't talk about. 15 writers break the silence, which was based on her essay on long reads,
[0:40]a contributing editor at Literary Hub. Michelle has published her work in the Los Angeles Times,
[0:45]the Boston Globe, the Paris Review, Tin House, O, the Oprah Magazine, and numerous other publications.
[0:51]A former board member of the National Book Critics Circle and a graduate of the University of
[0:55]New Hampshire, Michelle is currently an MFA student at NYU. She was named one of the 100 most
[1:00]influential people in Brooklyn culture. Welcome, Michelle, to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read
[1:04]Books. Thanks for having me. So can you please tell listeners what inspired you to write the essay
[1:11]on which the anthology you wrote was based and how it came to be a book? Yeah, so I started writing
[1:19]this essay when I was an undergraduate at the University of New Hampshire well over a decade ago.
[1:25]And when I first started writing the essay, it wasn't long after I had moved out of my mom
[1:30]and stepfather's house. And the essay really came at that point from a place of
[1:36]anger and confusion trying to write about the fact that my stepfather had abused me.
[1:42]But what it took me many years of therapy and finding my voice as a writer to realize is that
[1:48]this was an essay about my relationship with my mother and the fracture that this abuse had
[1:54]caused in our relationship. And I didn't know that when I first started. When I first started,
[2:00]it was more about trying to get the events on the page and figure out what I had just been through.
[2:05]So I have never spent so long on a single piece of writing before, but I think I needed to have
[2:11]those years to sort out what had happened and to figure out what the real story was here.
[2:18]In the end, the essay is really about a daughter longing for a stronger and better
[2:22]relationship with her mother. So the essay was published by Long Reads in October of 2017,
[2:29]right after the Weinstein story and Me Too movement took off. It wasn't originally supposed to be
[2:35]published then, actually. My editor at Long Reads, Serie Baughton, had slated it for around Thanksgiving
[2:43]since people who have to go home for Thanksgiving who might have complicated relationships with
[2:48]their family members could read it then and possibly relate. But as soon as this news story broke,
[2:53]she was like, nope, we're moving this up. And when it came out, I didn't expect it to have the
[2:59]impact that it had, but a lot of my favorite writers, like, and a lot, Rebecca Solnit, Lydia,
[3:05]you can be shared it on their social media and it went viral that way. And I heard from so many
[3:11]people who related not just to the topic of my essay, but also to the idea of the title of the
[3:19]essay alone, which was what my mother and I don't talk about. And so I'll forever be grateful to
[3:24]my editor at Long Reads, Serie, for first telling me when I first submitted this essay with the
[3:29]title, Lucuna, which I thought was a beautiful title. No one knows what that means and no one looks
[3:35]like on that. So I came up with a bunch of different titles and we ultimately went with this one
[3:41]and so many people, it became apparent right away. So many people were like, I have something,
[3:46]I don't talk about with my mom. And it just made absolute sense to turn this into an anthology
[3:52]with different writers writing about it. And it was important to me from the outset that I wanted it
[3:58]to be a diverse collection, not just of the writers themselves, but diversity and the types of
[4:03]relationships between mothers and children. So some of the people in book are really close with
[4:08]their moms. Some might be estranged or their mothers are no longer alive. But everyone, what's
[4:14]fascinating to me is that the threads that connect to all of these different stories together,
[4:19]how you see some of these stories overlapping and speaking to each other.
[4:23]The end result was really powerful. Although to be honest, I left wanting to know more about
[4:28]your story. I mean, I felt like it was a beautiful essay, but I was like, why is this not just a
[4:33]memoir of your story? Do you think about doing that? I did actually. And it's possible I will write
[4:39]my own memoir for sure. But for me, I felt like it was really important. The subtitle of this book
[4:46]is 15 Writers Break Silence. And for me, it felt like it's much easier to break silence as a community
[4:52]rather than alone on a stage. And so I, from the outset, I saw this as a group project because
[4:59]I think there's a power in the collective. And I wanted to represent a wide array of stories
[5:07]of people's experiences and backgrounds. And so that was always for me the vision for this particular
[5:12]book. But I definitely, I mean, it's my first book. And then I didn't picture an anthology as
[5:18]my first book, but it actually makes sense because I've been doing this kind of work for years.
[5:23]Like I ran events at indie bookstores for many years, both in Manhattan and Brooklyn and starting
[5:29]out in New Hampshire. And I was on the board of the National Book Critics Circle. I have done
[5:35]a ton of author interviews and book reviews. And I have my own literary series here in Brooklyn
[5:40]called Red Ink, where I feature different women who are writing in all different genres. And the
[5:47]whole purpose of that literary series is focusing on women writers past and present. And I
[5:52]pick a particular topic that we talk about. So it's kind of like a salon style event.
[5:57]So I've been doing like this literary community work for quite a long time now. And so it felt
[6:04]like a natural extension of what I've already been doing. But yeah, I mean, well, I would love to
[6:09]write a memoir at some point too. You are like a younger version of me. Except more accomplished.
[6:17]No, it's true. Like I love doing all that stuff too. That's so fun. Which indie bookstores do you
[6:21]work for? So I started out at River Run Bookstore in Portsmouth, New Hampshire in college.
[6:27]Actually, when I first started writing this essay, I was working there at the time. And then I
[6:32]my first job out of college was working for the CBS Evening News with Katie Kerr. And I quit that
[6:37]after a year to move back to New Hampshire and start an event series at that bookstores and focus
[6:43]on my writing career. So I did that for a while. And then I moved to New York City to run
[6:47]events at McNally Jackson in Soho. And after that, I worked at community bookstore in Park
[6:53]Slope for a while running their events. So it's really fun. I feel like once a bookseller,
[7:00]Oh, he's a bookseller. That's like where my heart is as an indie bookselling. So yeah, yeah. So
[7:06]for me, it was really fun because one of my jobs as an events coordinator was to curate and to put
[7:11]different voices together. And so I felt like I was doing that with this book as well.
[7:17]So cool. Yeah. Well, we'll have to talk after this. Maybe there's some way we can work together
[7:21]because I have lots of events and I love to bring authors together and help form a community and that
[7:25]whole thing. So yeah, maybe there's some way to collaborate or something. But anyway, I won't take
[7:30]time away from your podcast. So aside from your essay, which of the other essays do you feel like
[7:35]you developed or really close attachment to and how did you pick the 15 authors that you
[7:41]included? So it would be hard for me to choose just one essay that I formed the closest attachment
[7:48]to because that's like choosing your favorite children. I love all of these pieces in different
[7:54]ways. And for me, like that was the most interesting part of the puzzle was trying to pick
[8:02]essays that were different enough, but also spoke to each other and pick different writers who
[8:08]I admire. And also it was a challenge because certain, you know, as is the case in any anthology,
[8:15]some pieces that were assigned didn't end up working out or people weren't ready to write about
[8:21]their mothers even though they thought they were because it turns out it's actually very difficult
[8:26]to write about complicated relationships, right? And even if you're very close with your mom,
[8:31]it can be complicated. So but from the get go, I had people in mind who I wanted to reach out to.
[8:36]So Leslie James and for instance, who wrote this fantastic piece about trying to understand
[8:42]who her mother was before her mom became her mom by reading the unpublished main script by her
[8:49]mom's first husband that's based on their marriage and novel that he wrote based on their marriage.
[8:53]And so I had reached out to her in the very beginning and she said, you know, I'm really close
[8:59]with my mom and not sure what I'll write about, but I thought that was fascinating. And I said,
[9:04]Leslie, you can write about anything. I'm such a fan of her essays. I think she's one of our best
[9:10]essays. So I gave her the green light to to work on whatever she wanted to work on and come back
[9:16]to me. And that's what she came back to me with. And it was amazing. So right from the start,
[9:22]I knew I wanted her in the book. And you know, Alexander Chi, who you mentioned, he's one of my
[9:28]favorite writers as well. And then there were only a few essays in the book that had been previously
[9:33]published. I mostly I for the most part, I really wanted them to be original pieces that had
[9:38]not been published before. But there were two essays that I had read that I said like I need these
[9:44]in the book. And that was Brandon Taylor's all about my mother that would really have published
[9:49]where he writes about having an abusive mother. And he writes about her after she passes away
[9:56]with such tenderness, despite the...
[10:00]really difficult relationship they had.
[10:03]And it's just one of the most beautiful essays
[10:05]I've ever read.
[10:06]So I had to include that.
[10:08]And then the other one that had already been published
[10:10]was Andre Asiman, the author of Call Me by Your Name,
[10:13]which is such an amazing book.
[10:15]He wrote this beautiful essay for the New Yorker
[10:17]about growing up with a deaf mother.
[10:19]So I thought that the theme of this book as well.
[10:23]But everyone else, I reached out to writers I love
[10:25]and asked them if they wanted to write about their moms.
[10:28]And that's how this book ended up coming together.
[10:31]And I'm really, I really, it is hard.
[10:34]I can't say that I have a particular attachment
[10:36]to just one essay because I'm really
[10:39]I'm not just saying this because on the editor of the book,
[10:41]I'm just really like astonished by all of these writers
[10:45]in this collection.
[10:46]They all bring so much to the table.
[10:49]I agree.
[10:50]It was such an amazing, you did an amazing job
[10:51]of collecting different viewpoints and essays.
[10:53]And as you mentioned, yeah, Alexander choose essay,
[10:56]I mean, I keep thinking about it.
[10:58]It was so good and I mean, they're all so good.
[11:00]But yes, anyway, so now I have a question
[11:02]about anthologies in general.
[11:04]So when you decide to write, did you sell the anthology idea
[11:07]to a publisher and then go recruit the authors
[11:10]or did you have to have the other authors onboard first?
[11:13]So you have to put a proposal together.
[11:15]And what really helped me sell this book right away
[11:18]was that I did have some big names already signed up
[11:21]to contribute.
[11:22]So people like Leslie Jameson and Alexander Chi
[11:25]that really helped when you can say you already
[11:28]have a commitment from certain writers who are already in it.
[11:32]Yeah, so, but the final contributor list
[11:35]changed from the proposal to the finished book.
[11:38]So and I think that most publishers understand that.
[11:42]But yeah, I basically, it was a very short proposal.
[11:45]It was basically a letter talking about the essay itself
[11:50]and then my essay and talking about all the different writers
[11:54]I wanted to approach and those who had already
[11:56]committed to doing it.
[11:57]So, well, so let's go back to your essay a little bit,
[12:01]if you don't mind.
[12:02]Yeah, first of all, in your essay,
[12:03]you say that when you were a college
[12:05]that Joe Beard's essay collection, The Boys of My Youth,
[12:07]showed you that a personal essay can really
[12:09]be a place where a writer I'm quoting here
[12:11]can lay claim for control over her own story.
[12:14]And you say at the time, I was full of anger
[12:16]toward my abusive stepfather, haunted by memories
[12:19]that were all too recent.
[12:20]He loomed so large in my house that I wanted to disappear
[12:23]until finally I did.
[12:24]So talk to me a little bit more about all of that.
[12:27]Yeah, yeah.
[12:28]So, Joey and Beard is one of my favorite authors.
[12:32]And I actually was fortunate enough to get to study
[12:35]with her at the Tinhouse Summer workshop several years ago.
[12:38]And I actually worked shop to this essay in that workshop.
[12:42]And so she was instrumental in helping me come up
[12:44]with the final central image for my story
[12:48]because one of the things that she taught me in that workshop
[12:51]was that there's a darkness and a light
[12:54]to every person that you're writing about, to each person.
[12:57]And that really blew open the whole essay for me
[13:00]because you don't want to make someone
[13:01]into some cartoon villain, right?
[13:03]We're all human, no matter what a person has done.
[13:07]So when I thought about that, I ended up coming up
[13:10]with the central image in my essay of a jewelry box
[13:13]that my stepfather had made for me.
[13:14]And that's where I learned how to keep secrets inside, right?
[13:18]And so, I'm so sorry, I just forgot the question.
[13:22]No, no, no, it's fine.
[13:23]I just really wanted to hear more.
[13:25]I was just quoting about one scene with your stepfather
[13:27]and how you wanted to disappear until finally I did.
[13:31]So what did you mean by that?
[13:32]Yeah, I mean, well, in that part,
[13:35]I'm talking about the effects of abuse
[13:37]and how you don't want to be in a situation like that, right?
[13:42]And I finally got out of that house
[13:44]but that was not disappearing at what cost, right?
[13:48]I feel like I kind of lost who I was for a while.
[13:53]I hid myself in that jewelry box too in many ways, you know?
[13:57]I took a long time to kind of unpack that experience
[14:02]and what had happened to me and to come to terms
[14:05]with even calling abuse because I think one of the things
[14:09]that I'm really sensitive about that it's taken many years
[14:13]to come to terms with is abuse can happen in all forms, right?
[14:17]And I think verbal abuse,
[14:19]I mean, there was some sexual abuse from my stepfather as well
[14:22]like him touching me inappropriately, grabbing me.
[14:26]But the verbal abuse was so incredibly damaging as well.
[14:30]And I don't think we talk about that as much in our society
[14:33]but this constant barrage of verbal abuse I got
[14:36]I think it took me a long time to admit that's abuse, you know?
[14:40]And I kind of lost myself for a while.
[14:44]So I think that writing this essay
[14:47]was a way to come kind of reclaim who I am.
[14:51]And like I said, with like laying claim to your own story,
[14:54]like Joey and beer does, I feel like that's what we do as writers.
[14:58]Anyone who's writing about their own life,
[15:01]it is there's a power to that.
[15:03]There is a power to writing your truth
[15:06]and to being able to articulate it
[15:08]and to stare it in the face and look at it
[15:10]instead of brushing it away or, you know, just appearing.
[15:15]I am so sorry that this happened to you in your life.
[15:18]I mean, I am just so sorry.
[15:20]It breaks my heart, it really does to you
[15:23]to many other people that's happened to you.
[15:25]It's just so unspeakably awful
[15:28]and the fact that you're brave enough to write about it
[15:30]and come forward and give voice to people
[15:32]who might otherwise not be able to articulate it
[15:35]who aren't as brilliant as you aren't as, you know,
[15:38]great at writing even.
[15:39]I mean, it's a gift that you gave so many people.
[15:43]So anyway, and I can tell it's just starting, you know,
[15:45]I can really tell, but I'm sorry.
[15:47]I mean, for what it's worth, I'm just so sorry
[15:49]to have it to you.
[15:49]I'm sorry.
[15:50]Thank you.
[15:51]Well, I teach creative nonfiction
[15:53]and I have for many years
[15:54]and one of the things I teach my students
[15:56]is to write about the things that scare them
[15:58]that they're afraid to articulate.
[16:00]And I myself was not doing that for so long.
[16:04]I was running away from writing the truth at this story.
[16:06]So I finally had to follow my own advice
[16:09]and that was what led to the finished draft of this.
[16:13]But it's hard, right?
[16:14]But I'm so glad that we are finally at a point
[16:17]where people are breaking the silence
[16:20]about this kind of thing
[16:21]because it's really scary, right?
[16:24]It's so many women in particular,
[16:28]but men too, as you know from this book,
[16:30]and deal with this.
[16:31]So at the end of your introduction,
[16:34]because I want to hear about the effects
[16:35]that this had in your own family
[16:37]and now that it's out there in the world,
[16:39]you said, sometimes I imagine what it would be like
[16:41]to give this book to my mother,
[16:42]to present it to her as a precious gift
[16:44]over a meal that I've cooked for her,
[16:45]to say, here is everything that keeps us from really talking.
[16:48]Here is my heart, here are my words.
[16:51]I wrote this for you.
[16:52]Wow.
[16:53]So did you actually come to that moment
[16:55]and give it her the book?
[16:56]Like, tell me what happened.
[16:58]Yeah, so my mom, it's complicated.
[17:01]My mom was not happy with this essay or this book.
[17:05]And I did write this essay and put this collection together
[17:09]for her because ultimately my essay is about longing
[17:14]for a better relationship.
[17:16]And a lot of people have told me,
[17:19]you know, your essay doesn't come across
[17:21]as a mean spirited toward your mother or vindictive.
[17:24]There's love there on the page.
[17:26]There's a lot of love.
[17:28]And I'm really glad when I hear that from people,
[17:31]you know, even from strangers who have never met my mom,
[17:34]that makes me feel really good because I did write it
[17:37]with that in mind.
[17:39]There is, to me, this is written for my mom
[17:42]because we can't seem to have a conversation
[17:46]in real life where we can break through.
[17:48]You know, there's a lot of denial there.
[17:50]And when there's denial, it's impossible
[17:52]to have a person listen, really listen.
[17:55]So this was the only way I knew how to communicate with her.
[17:59]That said, it's been complicated and difficult.
[18:01]I always tell my students when they ask me
[18:03]about what they should do if they want to publish something
[18:06]about someone they love.
[18:07]And they're worried about hurting them
[18:08]that they really do have to think about that
[18:10]about the effect it will have for me
[18:13]in my particular in case I felt like there was more damage
[18:17]being done not telling this story than telling this story.
[18:21]And I felt like ultimately I reminded myself
[18:24]of what I would have needed to read
[18:26]when I was that girl in that house.
[18:29]And I thought about all the girls out there
[18:32]who might be in a similar situation
[18:34]and might need to read this essay.
[18:36]And that was what gave me the willpower
[18:39]to go forward with this and publish it.
[18:42]But things are really hard.
[18:43]My book is dedicated to my two grandmothers
[18:46]because they've been like mothers to me.
[18:48]And a few weeks ago, one of my grandmothers
[18:52]who really has been a mother to me passed away.
[18:56]And it's been really hard.
[19:00]I'm going to try not to cry until I'm so sorry.
[19:02]I'm still really grieving.
[19:05]But my mom came to this.
[19:06]It was actually my dad's mom
[19:08]and my parents have been divorced for many years,
[19:10]but my mom came to the funeral service.
[19:14]And so I saw her for the first time
[19:16]since the book has come out.
[19:17]And we hugged each other and told each other
[19:19]that we love each other.
[19:20]So that felt like a really powerful moment.
[19:24]And she knew how important my grandmother was to me.
[19:28]And she came to this funeral even though
[19:31]we've been having a tough time ourselves.
[19:34]So that felt like a really important moment in my life.
[19:40]I'm so sorry.
[19:41]Oh, thank you.
[19:42]I wish we were in person.
[19:44]I would be giving you a hug right now.
[19:45]I'm sorry.
[19:47]Oh, thank you.
[19:48]So much to go through in such a short amount of time.
[19:50]It's like kind of really hard year.
[19:52]Yeah, it's emotional.
[19:54]Oh my gosh.
[19:55]A really, really hard year, yeah.
[19:57]Has there been a silver lining like do you feel?
[20:00]even more support, even from people you don't know,
[20:02]having published this, like, does that provide you
[20:04]with at least some sort of,
[20:06]not that there's an antidote to grief
[20:08]and losing someone you love,
[20:09]but any of that does that provide a little solace
[20:11]in the sadness?
[20:13]It does, in fact, I've heard from strangers
[20:17]while I've traveled the country on book tour
[20:19]and also via email and some of the stories I've heard
[20:23]from people have just really made it all worth it.
[20:27]And in particular, I'm thinking of this email
[20:29]when I got from a woman who is estranged from her daughter
[20:34]and it's one of the most painful things in her life.
[20:36]And she read just the introduction of my book
[20:39]and had to send me an email as soon as she read it
[20:42]because she started crying,
[20:44]because she felt like there aren't that many books out there
[20:46]that can help her with that.
[20:47]And she felt like my book can,
[20:49]so that that email alone made this whole book worth it.
[20:52]And also there's an essay in my book
[20:55]by Naomi Munavira who's an incredible novelist.
[20:58]And she wrote this essay about growing up
[21:02]in a family, a Sri Lankan immigrant family
[21:04]and having a mentally ill mother.
[21:08]And she was terrified to publish her piece
[21:11]and sent it to her parents before we even had galleys
[21:14]and her mother wrote back the most supportive,
[21:17]incredible email saying that she loves her
[21:20]and that this essay is going to help a lot of people.
[21:23]And we included that as a postscript to Naomi's essay.
[21:26]So there's already healing that's happening.
[21:30]It's because of this book.
[21:32]And that is just astounding and incredible to me.
[21:37]So, and as I said, not all of these essays deal
[21:40]with relationships where it's difficult with the mom.
[21:44]There are some that are very loving as well.
[21:46]And so again, it was very important to me.
[21:48]And my editor at Simon & Jesus really like,
[21:50]we cannot have all abuse stories in this book.
[21:54]You really want to have reflect a wide prism
[21:56]of the different kinds of mother and child relationships.
[22:00]Wow. So when you wrote about your teenage years
[22:03]and the times you were sitting on the ground
[22:05]with your back in the knobs of your dresser,
[22:08]and it was just such an image that it was just,
[22:11]it just has stayed with me.
[22:12]The thought of you just sitting there
[22:14]with your back hurting and crying and the whole thing.
[22:17]If you could go back and like walk into that room
[22:20]as you now and talk to yourself back then,
[22:22]not to do like a therapy exercise with you or anything,
[22:24]but what would you say to yourself then?
[22:27]Is there anything you could have said
[22:29]to make it any easier to get there?
[22:31]Is there any advice you'd want to give yourself back then
[22:34]or just, I would tell myself to keep writing
[22:37]because words have always been what have saved me
[22:39]both my own words but other people's words as well.
[22:42]I mean, I talk about how books were really what saved me
[22:45]during that time and they continued to be what my solace
[22:49]and what I turned to in all different times in my life
[22:52]like right now because of losing my grandmother,
[22:55]I've been reading a lot of poetry
[22:58]and I've found a lot of solace in that in the last couple
[23:01]of weeks when I haven't really known how to process my grief.
[23:06]And I know that I am going to be writing about my grandmother,
[23:10]like I feel it building up inside of me.
[23:14]And I know that that will help me navigate my grief as well.
[23:17]So I would tell that young self that what I was doing then
[23:21]is exactly what I need to be doing,
[23:23]which is to write and to try to make sense of what's happening
[23:28]around me through words.
[23:30]And that that's always going to be what grounds me
[23:34]and what gives me solace.
[23:38]What are you going to do with all of this sort of talent
[23:41]and ideas and what are you going to do next?
[23:44]What's your plan?
[23:46]So what's your day-to-day life?
[23:49]Like, so I'm currently in grad school, actually.
[23:53]And why you getting my MFA in fiction
[23:56]because I want to write both.
[23:59]So I've been working on short stories over the past year.
[24:02]And I'm really excited about that.
[24:05]So that I'm continuing to focus on my fiction,
[24:09]but I'm also working on more essays.
[24:12]And we'll see whether my first solo book
[24:15]is non-fiction or fiction.
[24:16]I want to write both.
[24:17]So the plan is to just continue writing
[24:22]and continue teaching.
[24:24]I teach for a lot of different places.
[24:25]I teach for the SAC and street writers workshop
[24:28]where I teach memoir and personal essay writing.
[24:31]I teach a class for catapult online
[24:34]called Building a Writing Career on the Internet,
[24:36]which is a class I love to teach
[24:39]because when I first started out as a writer,
[24:41]I felt like there wasn't like one place
[24:43]where I could kind of learn the tools I needed
[24:46]to navigate to learn how to be a freelance writer
[24:49]and to understand the business side of things.
[24:51]So my class focuses both on the business side of things
[24:54]and on workshops and actual writing as well.
[24:58]And I've taught first Stanford's continuing studies.
[25:01]So I've taught in personal essay class for them.
[25:05]And in the fall, I'm really excited.
[25:07]I'm going to be teaching my first undergrad class at NYU.
[25:10]I'm going to be teaching intro to creative writing.
[25:12]So, you know, my grandmother who just passed away,
[25:16]Mimo, that's what we called her,
[25:18]which was actually a name she gave herself
[25:20]because it was an inversion of mommy.
[25:23]And she, she, I just love that name, Mimo.
[25:26]It's so original.
[25:28]But she was a piano teacher for most of her life.
[25:31]And she always talked about teaching being a sacred act.
[25:34]And I really agree with her.
[25:37]I feel like I'm a better writer
[25:39]because of my students of what they've taught me.
[25:43]And I just really,
[25:46]I think it's crucial to my process as a writer.
[25:49]So I feel like I'm following in her footsteps.
[25:53]And that's, that's the plan.
[25:55]And so hopefully I can have some short stories
[25:58]ready to publish sometime soon.
[26:00]It's exciting.
[26:02]I know you've given so much advice already
[26:04]over the course of this conversation.
[26:05]Do you have any last parting advice
[26:07]or aspiring authors out there?
[26:10]I know a lot of writers give this advice,
[26:12]but it's so true,
[26:14]which is the way to become a better writer
[26:17]is to be a voracious reader.
[26:19]I've met a lot of people who want to write
[26:22]but don't read that much.
[26:24]And it really depresses me because the, you know,
[26:28]when I think about why I became a writer to begin with,
[26:32]it's because I'm in conversation with all of the writers
[26:35]who have come before me or who are writing right now
[26:38]and who I feel a kinship with somehow.
[26:42]And so I feel like if you want to write,
[26:44]you need to be reading constantly
[26:47]and you need to be curious about the world
[26:48]and curious about other stories
[26:50]and stories that take you outside
[26:51]of your own perspective as well, for sure.
[26:54]So that would be my main piece of advice.
[26:58]And also, you know, support other writers too.
[27:02]I really am a big believer in being a literary citizen
[27:05]and what goes around comes around.
[27:07]So go to book independent bookstores and buy books
[27:11]by other writers, you know,
[27:13]go to attend events and go here
[27:15]writers talking about their craft
[27:16]and how they wrote what they wrote.
[27:18]You know, I feel like before I got this MFA,
[27:21]I kind of had my own MFA by running events
[27:24]at bookstores for years and sitting through
[27:27]thousands of author events and hearing authors talk again
[27:30]and again about how they did what they did.
[27:32]So I think that there's,
[27:34]that is an incredible resource
[27:36]as being able to just go to attend a free author event
[27:39]and hear the writer talking about their craft.
[27:42]Totally.
[27:43]Come to my events.
[27:44]I love you.
[27:45]I love you.
[27:47]Totally.
[27:48]Well, thank you so much.
[27:49]This has been like a super inspiring interview for me personally.
[27:53]I feel like you've given me so many ideas
[27:55]and like you're just so inspiring.
[27:57]You like make people want to do great things.
[27:59]So anyway, thank you for that from me.
[28:02]And thanks for, I'm sure you've done the same
[28:04]for anyone listening.
[28:05]So thank you.
[28:07]All right.
[28:08]Hopefully y'all be too soon in person
[28:09]and thanks so much for coming on the show.
[28:11]I would, yes, I'd love to ask, okay.
[28:13]All right.
[28:14]Okay.
[28:16]Thanks again to today's sponsor
[28:17]of momstone have time to read books,
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[28:24]Thanks for listening to momstone have time to read books.
[28:26]You can follow me on Instagram
[28:28]at momstonehavetimetoreadbooks.
[28:30]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound
[28:33]for the sound editing.
[28:34]And thank you to morning moon productions
[28:36]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[28:39]Thanks for listening.
[28:40]You could always email me at zibiatzibiowans.com.