Jeanne McWilliams Blasberg, THE NINE
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[0:50]Jean McWilliams-Blazberg, the author of Novels the Nine and Eden, and the winner of the Beverly Hills
[0:56]Book Awards for Women's Fiction. A graduate of Smith College, Jean worked in finance and writing
[1:01]cases for Harvard Business School. I actually wrote one too in like time ago. She has a blog and
[1:06]does extensive travel writing. She's the founder of the Westerly memoir project and a board member
[1:11]of the Boston Book Festival and Grub Street. She currently splits time between Boston, Massachusetts,
[1:16]and Westerly Rhode Island. So welcome to you and thanks so much for coming on Moms. Don't have time to
[1:20]read books. Thanks for having me Zibi. I'm so delighted to be here. So tell us what the Nine is
[1:25]about and what inspired you to write it. Oh, okay. So the Nine is the story of a boy who goes off
[1:33]to a very prestigious boarding school. It was his mother's hope and dream to get him into the school.
[1:40]And she really is under the impression she's got him all set and he's headed off for a stellar future.
[1:47]But when he gets to the school, he kind of uncovers an underground world. The Nine is the name
[1:53]of the Secret Society that taps him and he uncovers a crime as he's courting around with this group
[2:01]and he becomes more obsessed with solving the crime than making his mother's hopes and dreams
[2:06]come true. So their realities need to reconcile and it's about a family's experience as this boy
[2:15]goes off and the redefinition of success for them. The second part of your question?
[2:21]What made you write this book? So I was writing a historical novel that spanned 100 years and had a
[2:27]lot of edits to do on it that I got overwhelmed with. So the Nine was the story that just started
[2:34]percolating in my brain and it was kind of the mistress I kept while I had this daunting editing
[2:39]exercise that I really needed to do. This is your procrastination. Yeah. And this is what I had
[2:44]this other idea. I said, okay, so if 100 years of a family saga with all these characters is getting
[2:50]a lot of feedback, a lot of objections, I'm going to write a fast-moving, suspenseful action-packed
[2:58]story with only three characters that last four years. So I ripped off this first draft because
[3:06]I was at a stage in my life where my kids were going off into the world and it involved a lot
[3:11]of faith. I was also hearing stories in the news about how some of the schools, similar schools
[3:18]and these schools that my kids were going to were mixed up with controversy around cover up and
[3:25]sexual misconduct over the years. And then I also, I think this was the push, but and this might sound
[3:32]kind of crazy. I do tour a study once a month with a group at my temple in Brookline, Massachusetts,
[3:38]and we were studying the Hannah and Sam Yale's story. And something about it felt, I don't know,
[3:45]I'd connected with how Hannah must have felt handing her son over to the priest who had kind of
[3:53]squirmed her and the temple when her son was weaned and I'm doing air quotes around the word weaned
[3:59]because I kind of felt like maybe at 14 my son was barely weaned and I was turning him over.
[4:05]And it was something about kind of the fleeting nature of motherhood, how fast things go,
[4:12]and how we do our best to turn our kids over prepared for what they're going to face in the world,
[4:18]but it's unclear whether you're ever prepared for what's going to happen to you. So I felt like
[4:26]there was this metaphor, like this deeper, the story of motherhood that's really like thousands
[4:31]of years old of just the hope and also the worry, but in the end there's nothing you can do,
[4:38]you've got to let go. So I wanted to write something about that moment. And in the end,
[4:44]in all the revisions, the book's really about this relationship and the intrigue and scandal
[4:49]and running around with the secret society keeps you turning the page, but I feel like it's really
[4:55]the scaffolding on which the deeper meaning has to do with how a family evolves over the process
[5:03]of a kid growing up and going off and doing stuff. I won't say what kind of stuff, but yeah,
[5:08]just any kind of stuff. Yeah. Well, it's great because you really give such a good look at sort of
[5:15]the whole dynamic of what happens when the kids away. And there was all this time, all the times
[5:21]in the book where the mother Hannah is like wondering what the son is doing, her son, and she said,
[5:25]Sam's mom, you know, she kept a list of topics in her purse so that when she actually had time to
[5:31]talk to him, she could like whip through it and of course what you found like mortifying. And then
[5:36]she insisted that Sam be on Facebook. And then in the book he wrote, his occasional posts and tags
[5:41]combined with infrequent texts and weekly phone calls became the data with which I filled in the
[5:45]narrative of his life. I pictured him waking up, going to class, eating meals, swimming, and studying
[5:50]comforted by the notion that what little else he might have time for was easy to piece together.
[5:55]There was no substitute, however, for seeing him in the flesh. So tell me about how to glean
[6:01]the most from a picture on a website or a post on Facebook and that feeling like you have to
[6:07]try to extract so much meaning out of some pixels. I know. I mean, I don't think it's just
[6:13]boarding school moms who try to get glimpses of what's going on with their kids from just little
[6:20]sound bites, little pictures or posts or tags. And you might call it like stalking, but it's
[6:26]not really. I think it's just also getting pleasure out of seeing what they're doing with their
[6:31]friends. I see when my son went off to boarding school, it was kind of the early days of Facebook.
[6:38]So I think I put a lot more weight in those pictures. I'd see every once in a while. Also he was
[6:44]kind of a shy, quiet kid. And I knew if there was a picture out there, it was kind of a big deal for
[6:50]him. So it must have meant a lot. Nowadays, I think there are like just constant images and people
[6:56]don't think twice about it. But there was a time when I think I read a lot into these pictures.
[7:02]Hannah is probably similar. She wouldn't allow Sam to be on social media until he begged when he
[7:10]went away to the sporting school. But yeah, I mean, I know parents who talk to their kids every day
[7:15]when they're away or multiple times a day, lots of texts. My experience with my kids is that we
[7:22]tried to distance ourselves a little so that the letting go and the being let go could be easier.
[7:28]And it's a moment of real discipline, I think, to not be in touch, not constantly check in
[7:36]in all the ways we can now. And to wait for that weekly phone call with maybe the list by the
[7:42]phone of the things you want to remember to ask. I feel like, you know, that might not be something
[7:47]that's been written about that much. It's yeah, I don't know how to help anyone with that. But
[7:52]all I can say is that Hannah goes through it. A lot of us go through it. I tried to be authentic
[7:57]and vulnerable in writing her character. And you mentioned before we turned down the microphone
[8:02]said you, your husband had gone to boarding school, but you came from a giant public high school in
[8:07]where we each come from. And how this world just seems so different to you when you were thrown into
[8:11]it and then your kids went. So what has that been like? I mean, compare it to how you grew up.
[8:16]And yeah, so I'm really excited in a few weeks. I'm going out to Newport Beach and I'm going to do
[8:21]a talk at a bookstore, lead a village books right near where I went to high school and maybe we'll
[8:26]all have a good laugh. Although, you know, now Newport Beach is the home of the RCD Blues scandal. So
[8:32]maybe everything's changed in Newport Beach as well, which kind of makes me sad because back then
[8:37]we were so free and we were so unsupervised. And it was a wonderful place to grow up.
[8:43]When I first met my husband and he told me he went to boarding school, I was like,
[8:47]oh man, what'd you do? Like what? Yeah, why did they send you away? And he's like, no,
[8:54]no, no, it was very, you know, it was very, very huge opportunity to be able to go to the school.
[8:59]And I'm like, oh, okay. So it was an eye opener. But then when our oldest son was like 12 or 13,
[9:06]John brought him to a baseball game or an alumni event and we kind of opened Pandora's box by even
[9:13]letting him see that option. Then he really wanted it. And he had just become bar mitzvah and we'd gone
[9:18]through this whole thing about his independence and his capability. And how are you going to say, no,
[9:23]we don't think you should go away. And you know, really, it was about me. I didn't really want
[9:28]my children to go away. But when they wanted it, you have to say, okay, you know, we believe in you.
[9:34]So it then just started this trend in my family that I didn't see coming. It's not like we had
[9:40]planned on this. So even more so, I think when I'd show up at these campuses or we'd tour the campuses
[9:46]my kids were interested in attending, I was like, I've got to take notes. These places are amazing.
[9:52]But they're also each of them a little quirky and weird, you know. They're amazing. But there's some
[10:00]There's some strange things and so then the story or just the setting because I don't think the story is about a boarding school
[10:07]But it's really like a rich setting. I just when my my kids friends would come home for holidays or we'd take
[10:14]Have dinners together. I just couldn't help registering the static notes
[10:19]They'd tell me and I just thought this has got to be the backdrop for my next book
[10:23]Yeah, and what made you decide to tell it from all the different viewpoints because it wasn't just Sam
[10:28]Yeah, that's a great question. So yeah, the original draft was really a Sam a lot of Sam
[10:36]And I told it in the close third person because I also wanted to give some
[10:41]some background about the school some editorialization about the school the narrator kind of had a a little bit of a historical perspective about the school and
[10:51]Then I you know got some feedback that you know this boys story on a campus
[10:57]And I had been inspired by a lot of campus novels. I'm really a huge admirer of Curtis sit and felled and prep
[11:03]And I thought well, you know, what's gonna be different about this book and why I really want to write it
[11:08]It's because what happens to this mother-son relationship and so the mom Hannah
[11:13]Became a very strong point of view character and I switched her perspective to the first person
[11:19]She doesn't have a lot of friends her marriage is disintegrating and she's in her head a lot
[11:24]She is thinking things through way too much and so the best way to
[11:30]Get her angst across and kind of what she's going through was to be in her head and write in the first person
[11:36]And then I included this hockey coach because as he was the member of the faculties
[11:42]He had a point of view and and insight that neither Hannah nor Sam could have and it was a big part of
[11:48]The plot points you needed to kind of see what was going on from the faculty point of view
[11:54]Also Shawn is new to the school as well
[11:57]He's a 25-year-old hockey coach who's just shown up when Sam shows up to be the dorm parent
[12:03]So I've always been intrigued with writing about an institution or like a prestigious well-known
[12:09]Established place from an outsider's point of view and Shawn the hockey coach was just as much an outsider in new to the school
[12:17]As Sam and Hannah and I saw it as kind of the three of them navigating this place one from a parent's point of view
[12:23]One from the students experience and then one from a faculties members experience and tell me about the process of writing this book
[12:31]And especially how does it compare to Eden which you yeah came out first?
[12:35]So as I alluded to this just first draft kind of ripped out of me as I was procrastinating the work on Eden
[12:42]Like give me a picture where you had a coffee shop where you and you ask where you
[12:47]wearing slippers
[12:49]What time of day? Yeah, what time of day? Okay, so
[12:53]When I started taking myself seriously as a novelist
[12:57]I decided I would use my most creative energetic hours to write and that was a real flip for me because
[13:05]mornings used to be for
[13:07]Exercise friends running around the city. I live in Boston getting stuff done
[13:12]And then I'd write in the afternoons if and when I felt like it
[13:16]But once this became my job. I flipped everything around so I wake up in the morning
[13:21]I get a few like dog walking breakfast type of few bills paid
[13:26]But then I turn off the internet and this is when I use like my hours of greatest energy being over 50
[13:32]I won't like say exactly. I'm gonna do 54 on Saturday. I get tired in the afternoon
[13:38]So I do like to write in the morning and I try to work for
[13:43]three to four solid hours and then leave the afternoons for all those other things that are important as well
[13:49]Employment and things like that. So I think I probably came home with red marks all over the Eden manuscript
[13:56]Which is a hundred years of social history. It's about four generations of women in a family and
[14:04]The changes in like reproductive rights and how that really affected each generation
[14:09]And so it's a real family story, but it's set against the backdrop of American history
[14:14]And it's set in a summer community
[14:16]And it had a whole bunch of point of views talk about my three point of views
[14:20]I had must have started out with like eight or nine
[14:22]My first novel had all these illusions to genesis in the Bible and it was this
[14:27]Big family. Anyway, people are like this is way too ambitious for your debut novel
[14:32]And the main character isn't the right character
[14:35]And it'll be good because you're a good writer and you can write a good scene and you can like
[14:41]That's this house and these people are very vivid, but I think you need to totally rewrite this whole thing. Oh my gosh
[14:46]And I was okay with that, but I'd already been at this for five years and I just like it's just seemed
[14:53]Overwhelming and then I had like I said this other story percolating
[14:57]So I'd sit at my desk, you know nine o'clock
[15:00]And I'd look at all the red marks on the Eden manuscript
[15:04]And and I said well, maybe I'll just
[15:06]Write a book that doesn't have the two timelines that doesn't have all the characters that you know
[15:11]Answers all these objections. I'm getting about Eden
[15:14]And then at one point a teacher I take a lot of classes at Grub Street in Boston
[15:19]A teacher who had seen both manuscripts suggested I try to get the nine published first
[15:24]But then I felt like a girl who wasn't gonna go home or they're prom day
[15:29]You just took me to the prom
[15:32]I didn't want to leave with somebody else. I felt like Eden deserved
[15:37]To get across the finish line first
[15:38]And so then I put the nine away and luckily after Eden had some success in my publicist said you need to come out with another book
[15:46]I was like I actually have a manuscript. It's pretty
[15:49]Pretty far along and so that's why I'm in this lucky position of having a novel come out two years
[15:54]After my first it did take me six years to write on the side, but it's following
[16:00]With a nice period of you know, not too long period of time
[16:03]And now you have to like get another I know I know I have another in the works
[16:07]It's not gonna be as fast. You know, it's so funny
[16:09]I feel like there's so much pressure now because I ask everybody like okay
[16:12]What's coming next and I feel like I'm adding to everybody's pressure because think about all the authors who maybe they wrote one
[16:18]Amazing book and that was it
[16:20]Today you it's like you can't do that you want to write a book
[16:22]They're like well, what are what are your next? What's gonna be like?
[16:24]I keep you like there's so much pressure to keep producing
[16:27]Sometimes I know
[16:28]I know
[16:28]I feel like you don't want it or is it just well
[16:31]I got into this hoping
[16:33]Maybe a hundred people would like Eden, you know
[16:36]And it's had a lot. It's been received really well
[16:39]And I feel like my definition of success might have been more modest than some other people's definition of success
[16:46]I have to keep reminding myself that I've already connected with people
[16:51]I've already like shown up for myself and published two books
[16:54]I mean in a lot of ways this is success and when I do feel like oh my god
[16:59]I gotta get the next one done
[17:01]I have to just say that is the most ungrateful attitude like just wind it back
[17:07]Your dreams have already come true. You get to spend every day writing. This is such a privilege like
[17:13]The commercial stuff you can get wrapped up in it
[17:16]And you know obviously you don't want to totally ignore it
[17:19]I'm not that type of person. I do want my book in people's hands
[17:23]But I already feel like I don't know the rest is just gravy
[17:27]You know the high holidays are coming up and I've referred to a few Jewish things
[17:31]But it's like the idea of die anew, right?
[17:34]Totally
[17:35]It would have been enough to just have Eden and now to have the nine die annual and like who am I
[17:40]To think I'm gonna be able to just keep giving people great stuff every two years
[17:45]I need to really make sure it's worthy worthy
[17:48]I had something similar with my husband the other night
[17:50]I was feeling like so stressed by all the emails and scheduling and whatever else and he's like you're doing this to have fun
[17:56]Remember you have a fun? You're you enjoying yourself today
[17:59]Like um, it's like cuz remember you're trying to enjoy yourself
[18:04]This is this is supposed to be fun for you. So anyway
[18:07]It's totally so tough. It's hard with like I don't know
[18:09]I feel like the inbox and that I don't know all these like external things can make what you're doing
[18:15]See no, I'm very sensitive. Then actually it needs to be a great. I agree
[18:20]We used to tell me about you're on the board of the Brooklyn book festival not Brooklyn Boston. I'm sorry
[18:26]I wish
[18:27]Sorry, I just went to the Brooklyn. Yeah, but festivals. I was on my mind
[18:31]But yeah, sorry Boston book festival. Tell me about that. I haven't been well yet
[18:36]This wonderful woman Deborah Porter started it 10 years ago
[18:39]So it's relatively new compared to other major cities book festivals
[18:43]But it's a weekend in October where the entire back bay turns into like a college campus with
[18:50]All these public spaces including the library and churches and event spaces having wonderful readings
[18:56]Just like many book festivals
[18:57]I think we've tapped in on the great literary culture in Boston and
[19:02]both non-fiction and fiction both academic and very entertaining works
[19:07]So Debbie asked me to be on the board about 18 months ago, and I think my role
[19:12]I'm actually the treasurer
[19:14]So I do have that background from Wall Street and not that it's really helped with
[19:19]Understanding the quick books of the Boston book festival, but I'm learning. I just love being involved
[19:25]I one part of this writer's journey for me was becoming part of the literary landscape and community
[19:31]in Boston and meeting these people and like finding mentors and finding new people and learning from people
[19:38]So yeah, I kind of said yes
[19:41]And I'll do whatever you need me to do because I get to go to cocktail parties and go to events and meet amazing people and pick their brains
[19:48]And hear them speak about their books. It's an amazing opportunity. There aren't that many communities you can join as adults
[19:57]That and so being able to write a book
[20:00]and enter in, or enter into this literary community in any ways.
[20:03]Yeah, bless them.
[20:04]And you get it through your kids' schools, maybe,
[20:06]or if you don't have kids, you know, through work.
[20:08]Yeah, or the channel, or your kids.
[20:10]It's not the same.
[20:11]If there's another group in Boston
[20:13]that I need to give a shout-out to,
[20:15]which is called Grub Street.
[20:16]Yes, I was...
[20:17]Yeah, it's the creative writer center.
[20:19]That's an amazing community of teachers and learners
[20:23]so you can sign up as a student.
[20:24]And I think they touched thousands of people every year
[20:27]with both paid and free classes, both adult and teens.
[20:31]But that's where I found people who really helped me get eat
[20:34]and across the finish line really gave me encouragement
[20:37]on how to structure a book.
[20:38]I could write a scene, but it didn't understand
[20:41]the craft of what a novel needed to look like.
[20:44]And then people who give you advice on finding an agent,
[20:47]how to get a book published,
[20:49]and then potentially blurbing your books.
[20:51]And it's just been amazing, so many generous people.
[20:56]And it's taught me about how to be a generous artist.
[20:59]I was a competitive athlete before,
[21:01]where if somebody won the other person lost,
[21:05]and in the writing world,
[21:06]and in the world of publishing,
[21:08]I've learned that if one person wins, we all win.
[21:11]And winning doesn't mean,
[21:13]if someone else wins doesn't mean you lose,
[21:15]we can all rise up if more people read.
[21:18]And there's good books out in the world,
[21:20]and people know about them.
[21:21]So I've loved changing my outlook on life
[21:25]from one that's a zero-sum game,
[21:27]to one that's, we can all list each other up type of game.
[21:32]I interviewed Will Shwellby the author,
[21:34]and he's on a campaign to rebrand reading as radical listening,
[21:39]because you're really listening,
[21:40]but you can't talk back when you're reading
[21:42]versus everything else we do in life.
[21:43]Anyway, I love that.
[21:45]I'd say, yeah, I love that idea.
[21:46]What kind of athlete were you?
[21:47]Oh, I'm a squash player.
[21:49]I still dabble.
[21:50]I still compete and play, but yeah,
[21:54]I played in college, I really learned in college.
[21:56]I hit my stride as a master's squash athlete,
[21:59]and when I turned 51, the national championship
[22:02]in my age group.
[22:03]That's amazing.
[22:04]Yeah, so, but I got to start training for the 55, so awesome.
[22:10]Now I had this one moment when I was playing a lot of tennis,
[22:12]and I was like, maybe by the time I could be in the like,
[22:16]60 enough.
[22:18]No, you get a train for 20 years, you totally can,
[22:21]because at the stage, it's a war of attrition,
[22:23]like my news and my hips last longer than everyone else's.
[22:27]I could do it.
[22:28]I could do it again, but that's another thing
[22:30]where we're all kind of hoping we can all keep showing up
[22:34]at these tournaments and be like the old 80-year-old ladies
[22:36]playing squash.
[22:37]It's a great community of friends.
[22:39]I've made through that as well.
[22:40]No, that's awesome.
[22:41]And tell me briefly about the Westerly Memoir Project.
[22:44]So, Grump Street had something called the Boston Memoir Project,
[22:47]and it was replicated in Nantucket with a lot of people
[22:50]writing about that place, like a place that really has evokes
[22:54]a lot of love and emotion, a setting for people's lives
[22:59]and a lot of memory.
[23:00]And Westerly, where I spend half the year
[23:03]is a similar type of place, it's right.
[23:05]It's South County Rhode Island, right on the ocean.
[23:07]It's the very opening of Long Island Sound.
[23:10]And there are both people who've lived there,
[23:12]well, there are people who go there for the summers
[23:14]and have a tradition, a family tradition of spending
[23:18]just the warm seasons there.
[23:20]And then there's a lot of people who, you know,
[23:22]it's an important town year round as well.
[23:25]And I created this writing program to bring people together
[23:28]from all parts of Westerly to write personal narrative
[23:34]and share their stories.
[23:35]With the idea that we would publish an anthology of essays,
[23:40]I haven't really gotten a lot of people
[23:43]wanting to work on their essays
[23:45]to the point where they're publishable.
[23:47]But we do have these amazing readings every six to 12 months
[23:51]at a bookstore there.
[23:53]And just the process of 12 people taking classes together
[23:57]and meeting each other that these are people
[23:59]that would not be hanging out together otherwise
[24:02]may not cross paths.
[24:04]But it's like building bridges
[24:05]because we all have similar stories.
[24:07]We all have the same hopes and dreams in our lives
[24:10]to be loved and connected and accepted.
[24:13]And, you know, anyway, it's been really great.
[24:16]So it's turned into like just summer months classes
[24:21]to now spring, summer and fall.
[24:23]And it's been going four years.
[24:25]And it actually has allowed me to be a teacher.
[24:28]I just taught some of the classes this past fall.
[24:31]And I'm looking forward to being a teacher as well.
[24:34]Do you have any hurting advice to aspiring authors?
[24:36]I know you've woven in a lot throughout our conversation.
[24:39]But well, I think everybody is creative.
[24:43]And if you feel like your creativity wants to come out
[24:46]with words on the page, then just start writing.
[24:50]I really did not know what I was doing
[24:52]when I started this.
[24:53]And I took a lot of classes
[24:55]and I got the help of a lot of people.
[24:57]So writing is just like up any kind of muscle
[25:00]that you want to tone or any type of craft you want to learn.
[25:03]People who are gifted writers are,
[25:06]I don't know, I'd say you couldn't learn this.
[25:08]Yes, there are people who are amazingly intelligent and gifted.
[25:12]And that might be evident in what they put out.
[25:16]But this is something you can really learn
[25:19]and work on and improve by reading and editing
[25:22]and work shopping.
[25:23]And you should, you know, so many people say,
[25:26]oh, I always wanted to write a book, but I can't do it.
[25:28]And it's the type of thing where just like one foot
[25:31]in front of the other seems daunting.
[25:33]But eventually it can get done if you put in the time.
[25:37]And also don't let people, you know,
[25:39]don't accept the negativity if people are discouraging.
[25:44]I would just move on and figure out,
[25:47]I'm kind of a story of a million rejections
[25:49]and just kind of making this happen for myself
[25:51]and figuring out how I could get this done.
[25:55]I had no MFA, no big writing credentials
[25:58]before I got my first book published.
[26:00]And, you know, it's not impossible.
[26:02]It's very hard, but it's not impossible.
[26:05]And even if you don't get your work published,
[26:09]the process of showing up for yourself every day
[26:11]and being creative and doing what, you know,
[26:13]you kind of want to do, it's really a gift to yourself.
[26:17]That's true.
[26:18]Well, thanks so much for coming on Ross.
[26:20]Don't have time to read books.
[26:21]I really appreciate it.
[26:22]Thanks.
[26:23]Moms will have time at some point.
[26:25]Yes, yeah, but maybe not at your point.
[26:27]Moms have to make time to read books.
[26:29]Right, right.
[26:31]When you are.
[26:32]Thank you so much.
[26:32]Thank you.
[26:33]Bye.
[26:34]This episode has been sponsored by Book of the Month Club.
[26:37]Book of the Month dot com.
[26:38]Enter Code Zibi to get your first book for $5.
[26:41]Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:44]You can follow me on Instagram at Moms Don't Have Time
[26:47]to Read Books.
[26:48]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[26:50]for the Sound Editing.
[26:51]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:53]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.
[26:56]Thanks for listening.
[26:57]You can always email me at zibi at zibiowans.com.