Caroline Maguire, WHY WILL NO ONE PLAY WITH ME?
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[1:39]I'm here today with Caroline McGuire, who's the author of Why Will No One Play With Me?
[1:43]The play better plan to help children of all ages, make friends and thrive.
[1:48]Caroline is a personal coach who works with children struggling with executive function
[1:52]weaknesses and their families.
[1:54]A former coach for the Hollowell Center in Sudbury, Massachusetts, Caroline earned her ACG
[2:00]from the ABD Coach Academy, say that 50 times really quickly, and her PCC from the International
[2:06]Coach Federation.
[2:07]She has a master's in education from Leslie University.
[2:10]Caroline currently lives in Concord, Massachusetts with her husband and two children.
[2:14]So welcome Caroline.
[2:15]Thanks for coming on momstone.
[2:17]Have time to read books.
[2:18]No problem.
[2:19]I actually listened to an audio book on my way home from New York this morning, so I
[2:24]have done well that mark.
[2:27]Can you please tell listeners what your book called Why Will No One Play With Me is
[2:31]about and tell us about this play better plan that you came up with?
[2:35]Sure.
[2:36]So I wanted to make a guide so parents could know what professionals know, but in really
[2:42]jargon free user friendly terms to coach their kids through any social situation.
[2:48]So I had to have tough conversations and actually had to build social skills because
[2:53]I felt like as a parent and as professional, there's really nothing like that out there.
[2:58]A lot of books talk about the problem, but they don't really tell you how, how do you do
[3:03]this?
[3:04]So the idea behind the book was just that it's really parent friendly.
[3:09]And then the play better plan is just what we call the plan.
[3:13]So you know, there's steps that parents can follow and you can, you know, what do you
[3:18]do?
[3:19]How do you start, you know, what environment you create?
[3:22]All those kind of steps are given to you.
[3:25]So you just sort of follow the yellow work road.
[3:27]Well, as a parent of four kids, this book, I wish I had had this book earlier in my life.
[3:33]I mean, there's no parent who hasn't had some sort of friend related issue with a child,
[3:40]you know, instigated by the child to the child, like, there's so many things.
[3:44]So I felt like this is, and you called it that some sort, you called it like the playbook
[3:48]for, you know, social issues, right?
[3:50]It's like, I thought it was, it was amazing.
[3:52]So you identified this, what you called an unmet need crippling millions of women.
[3:57]So I mean, if women were my time, billions of children, this is what happens when I don't sleep.
[4:02]Millions of children, how did you identify this problem?
[4:05]Tell me about like what happened in your practice and the kids you were seeing and when
[4:08]you realized that you were the one who had to write this book.
[4:12]So about 15 years ago when I started working with kids, you know, people often came
[4:17]to me for academics and helped their kid who's disorganized and sort of disheveled and
[4:23]really brilliant by not getting their work done.
[4:26]And the same part of the brain that makes social skills and runs them is also the same
[4:30]part of the brain that affects those kind of academic issues, fall executive function.
[4:36]And I over and over and over again had these incidents where kids willing to care about
[4:42]the academic part, they cared about the friendship part.
[4:45]And they would tell me, you know, their stories.
[4:47]And then mothers I found, if you had a kid who was sort of left out and didn't get a
[4:52]lot of play tapes, the parents didn't have a lot of socialization because no one really
[4:58]invited them anywhere.
[4:59]Because, you know, you invite, we're all guilty of this, the easy kids, the kids who
[5:03]get along at the barbecue.
[5:05]And so I had this one little boy and I asked him, you know, what would you change
[5:10]anything?
[5:11]And he said to me, you know, I want to know why no one will play with me.
[5:15]And it just started this ringing in my head.
[5:18]And as I was working, I found that, you know, anything I could get on my hands on in terms
[5:24]of guides to help develop social skills were written for professionals.
[5:30]And they were so full of jargon that the average parent couldn't understand them.
[5:35]And then I kept finding that the social skills, if you weren't someone with a pretty
[5:41]severe diagnosis, you didn't get any help anywhere.
[5:45]And that there's just so many issues going on for all of us nowadays.
[5:50]And so I started a master's degree and I told my professors this idea and they were really
[5:55]supportive.
[5:56]And I hollow out who I worked for at the time was really supportive.
[5:59]But all the time I kept thinking someone's going to come up with this.
[6:03]So I'm working on this this whole time and someone is going to come up with this because
[6:07]how can people not see that this is a trend is need?
[6:11]And it turns out nobody did.
[6:13]And the reason is it's really a lot to produce this.
[6:16]But also I think it's almost like something so obvious that everybody realizes we need,
[6:21]but nobody can really figure out that we need it.
[6:24]So why don't you play with me?
[6:26]It's really about like these constant issues that I have seen come up.
[6:30]And I know mother.
[6:32]So I see it with my own kids and their friends where parents are constantly, you know,
[6:37]my husband has been crazy.
[6:38]Like we arrived at dinner party and I'm like, ushered into the corner and people pepper
[6:42]me with questions.
[6:43]He's like, can we just not talk about that for one night?
[6:47]And I'm like, no, you know, this is what people need.
[6:49]I'm on the board of the parenting center of Mount Sinai Hospital.
[6:53]And we were brainstorming, you know, different books that we've all loved and, you know,
[6:57]things like that.
[6:58]So I mentioned yours and everyone was like, oh my gosh, that's I need that.
[7:00]book.
[7:01]I need that book.
[7:02]And I'm like, right.
[7:03]It was so great.
[7:04]And one of the things that you said repeatedly in the book, which you say to the parents
[7:09]that you coach is if they could, they would, like if your kids could make friends easily,
[7:14]they would, like being punitive and saying, come on, just try again tomorrow, like that's
[7:18]not going to work similar to like if you don't know how to play tennis, picking up
[7:21]a racket every day.
[7:22]I mean, it's not necessarily, I mean, if no one's going to teach you, you're not going
[7:26]to necessarily learn it the right way or the best way.
[7:29]So, I mean, maybe tennis people would have judged.
[7:31]But anyway, tell me a little more about that if they could, they would.
[7:34]I think a lot of childhood pain, time kind of feels it, right?
[7:38]You know, there was a time when I thought my daughter never ride a two wheel bike.
[7:43]And then she practiced and she matured and she got it.
[7:47]And one day it was as if she'd never not ridden, you know, when they're crawling, it's
[7:53]like sometimes you're like, oh my god, all they do is scoot.
[7:55]And then all of a sudden they're crawling and they're walking.
[7:59]And so I think what happens with parents is that we get used to this sort of like time,
[8:04]moves, things forward and we just have to wait it out thing because a lot of our lessons
[8:09]think that.
[8:10]But what happens with kids is that I think every kid wants to be successful.
[8:15]I think most kids want to do well and meet our expectations.
[8:20]And when they just don't pick this stuff up naturally, it's sort of mysterious to
[8:25]us, especially because a lot of these kids are so smart about other stuff.
[8:30]And so I really want to stress the parents, like I know sometimes we worry that our kid
[8:34]is being manipulative or something, but the minute you kind of say if they could, they
[8:39]would and you stop worrying about that manipulative piece, you kind of reframe everything
[8:46]and you start to realize like, oh, they really want to do well.
[8:50]And if I give them direct instruction, they can learn.
[8:54]And tennis is a perfect analogy because you couldn't teach me tennis if you spent every
[8:58]minute of every day with me because I'm so unappletic and like you have to do something special
[9:04]for me, which tennis people everywhere listening to this are going to be like, what?
[9:08]But I can't, you know, it's not easy for me.
[9:11]So you give readers in the book a list of seven things that everyone needs to be able to
[9:15]do to be socially successful.
[9:18]My question is, what if the parents themselves don't necessarily have those skills, right?
[9:24]Like, what if you're a parent who's trying to help your child, but you're like, well,
[9:28]I don't know.
[9:29]Can I do this?
[9:30]I don't know.
[9:31]What do you do then?
[9:32]What do you do then?
[9:33]I get that question a lot.
[9:34]So we know like the 50% of people with social skills, children with social skills,
[9:37]they'll challenge and have challenges themselves.
[9:39]And I think that it's also that we also become really self-conscious as parents about
[9:44]our own social skills.
[9:45]Like, should I really be the one teaching them?
[9:47]But you know, the thing is that the more you work on your own stuff, what you can do
[9:52]as you work, the lessons of this book with your child, the more your child is going
[9:57]to engage in the process.
[9:59]So I-
[10:00]had a lot of parents who didn't have great social skills.
[10:03]They do the lessons with their child,
[10:05]they improve their own social skills.
[10:08]And their kid is like, okay, well,
[10:10]if you'll exit your comfort zone, I'll exit mine.
[10:14]Whereas when we don't do stuff and we kind of preach,
[10:17]that's when especially teenagers really get upset.
[10:21]She's like, hey, you're not doing it.
[10:23]And what about the fact that as a parent,
[10:26]we have to be the coach in this book?
[10:28]Like, what if I'm not a good coach?
[10:30]What if I wouldn't be like a good soccer coach?
[10:32]I keep turning this all back to sports,
[10:34]but like, you're so great in the book,
[10:35]encouraging the reader to keep, you know,
[10:37]every chapter, you're like, you've got this, you can do it.
[10:39]And I'm like, thank you.
[10:41]And you even give these like eight, you know,
[10:43]tactics for being a better coach.
[10:45]And like, as much as you can do from the other side
[10:47]of this book, you have helped people do it.
[10:49]But like, is there somebody who can't coach?
[10:52]Like, then what?
[10:53]Then what do you do?
[10:54]Or do we just send our kids to you?
[10:56]I mean, the thing is that probably already doing this,
[11:02]just not as well as you could be, right?
[11:05]We all have our kids get off the bus, come home,
[11:08]and we have these endless conversations.
[11:10]Or we watch and we try to help them with these issues, right?
[11:14]Mixed in, why did you talk that way?
[11:16]You're telling them wasn't really good there, you know?
[11:19]Even when you're hungry, you have to be polite, all that stuff.
[11:22]And so what I would say is that I literally
[11:25]had this last night, I gave a speech,
[11:27]and that a mother said to me, you know,
[11:29]I heard you last year and I did great for like 15 minutes.
[11:32]And then I completely fell apart.
[11:34]And the thing is that that was great 15 minutes.
[11:37]And tomorrow you try for 20 minutes, right?
[11:39]Like, anybody can do this.
[11:42]I've even had really, really authoritarian parents change
[11:45]their style and really become more coach-like.
[11:49]And my thing is, even if you're imperfect,
[11:52]which is fine, you're already probably having these conversations,
[11:58]but they don't go anywhere, because you don't have the tools you need.
[12:02]So your book gives so many tools.
[12:04]Like, I was sitting there thinking, did you come,
[12:06]like, did this woman come up with all these,
[12:08]did you come up with all of these things?
[12:10]I did.
[12:10]Oh my gosh, you're so creative.
[12:12]They're like amazing.
[12:13]It's like you're like a teacher meets babysitter, meets therapist,
[12:18]meets pediatrician, I don't know.
[12:21]Like, anyway.
[12:23]Well, what happens is that I like to solve problems.
[12:27]And I especially like it when people tell me
[12:29]that one thing is impossible.
[12:30]So for instance, a few years ago, someone said to me,
[12:33]you can't teach social skills by a Skype.
[12:35]You just can't do it.
[12:36]They have to be in person.
[12:37]And I was like, yeah, except there are no people to do this in Columbia.
[12:42]There are no people in part to this country.
[12:44]So I'm going to figure it out.
[12:46]And how I figured it out was that I trained a parents.
[12:48]And the parents become my arms, my legs.
[12:51]And we all work together.
[12:52]So I think that the tool came out of like specific things that came up with kids.
[12:58]Like, who were your audience?
[13:00]Was a kid who I just couldn't get to understand that like every person you
[13:04]encounter, they have a reaction to you.
[13:08]And if you melt down and they're two feet from you,
[13:12]they still think about that meltdown.
[13:14]Like, it's not like if you're behind a hidden cloak, you know?
[13:18]And so all these things came out of that.
[13:21]And then last summer, I did the painstaking thing of writing directions for
[13:25]parents and just like hunkering down and making them all, you know,
[13:30]flow and beautiful.
[13:31]But they were all the stuff that I'd used.
[13:33]So I knew that they worked.
[13:35]So tell me about some of the strategies like the social spy and the mat
[13:40]where you literally put yourself in someone else's shoes.
[13:43]And tell me about some of the things you've invented that are particularly
[13:46]successful for you.
[13:47]So the mat to walk in someone else's shoes is like a parent's best friend.
[13:52]I'm so many levels.
[13:54]So what happened was my graphic designer is my cousin and she had all the designs
[13:59]for this book and she and I were talking about it and she's a mom.
[14:03]Like how, you know, we really wish like you could literally experience being
[14:08]in someone else's body because then you really have perspective.
[14:12]And so we just decided that we would do this crazy thing.
[14:16]And I got this being mat printed up.
[14:19]And I literally started first giving kids like actual shoes, but that was really
[14:24]hard because then you have to have all these sizes.
[14:26]And then I just have this graphic made up.
[14:28]And so when you can use it for anything, you can use it for, hey, want to think
[14:33]about how eating the last piece of pie really affected your brother.
[14:36]But you can also use it for like when I run your soccer equipment to school
[14:41]every single day to my shoes.
[14:45]What does that do to me?
[14:46]And so it's fun and they like it.
[14:49]Do you know what I mean?
[14:50]Like it's interactive and you can take a piece of craft paper and you can draw it out.
[14:55]I will eventually sell it on my website.
[14:57]I just haven't had a chance yet.
[14:59]It's like a whole other project.
[15:01]But you know, it's like the ultimate fun thing and by the way, people, I get teenagers
[15:06]to do this.
[15:07]So people always say, oh, it's just little kids.
[15:09]No.
[15:10]I also get them to sort of start thinking about that like they're not the only beings
[15:15]in the world, which is good, which is often hard to get through to them.
[15:21]And what about what about the social spy?
[15:23]So social spy, I use with kids of all ages, and the idea behind it is we've practiced
[15:29]and we rehearse sort of listening in on people and watching them without watching.
[15:33]And the reason is that kids with socials get challenged don't tend to be great notices.
[15:38]So they don't read the road.
[15:39]They don't notice other people.
[15:41]They don't notice all that social data, especially stuff like mood and context.
[15:47]And so teachers will say to me, like, I was in such a bad mood and they never really realized
[15:52]they should stop pushing me, right?
[15:54]And as a parent, I'm sure many of you are listening going, yeah, why did they push me
[15:58]to that?
[15:59]So one of the things we do is we give them missions and we have them go out into society,
[16:05]like to a box store, to a mall, and watch other people and their specific things they're
[16:11]watching for, but also they can go to school and find out what are other people talking
[16:16]about, you know, what does my teacher do when she's about to lose it?
[16:20]Like what does she say with her body and her voice?
[16:23]And now I can pay attention to that so that when my teacher is annoyed, I don't keep
[16:28]nagging at her until I end up in the principal's office.
[16:31]I like how in the book you even have diagrams, like here's a picture of somebody who's
[16:35]is like paying attention and here's a picture of somebody who's like, could care less.
[16:38]And I'm acting this out for you and nobody can see this except me, but anyway, but in
[16:43]the book it's really helpful because you can, you know, when you show a kid something
[16:48]like that, they can get it, right?
[16:50]But if you maybe explain like just be nice or just pay attention, not having a visual is
[16:55]a hindrance, really.
[16:56]Yeah.
[16:57]And I was talking about this with a group I talked to last night, you know, I said there's
[17:00]signs and signals that people are friendly and then there's signs and signals that
[17:05]they want to be your friend.
[17:07]And a lot of kids either are so paranoid about like what are those signs and signals that
[17:12]they do nothing and they end up just like inert or they mistake just being a pleasant person
[17:19]for a real overture of friendship.
[17:21]So we have you like we have lists of what are those signs and signals and then what does
[17:26]it look like and then you can act it out.
[17:29]And that way now I have a real visual representation of it, not just my mom saying like,
[17:35]hey, that person was just being nice because people sometimes just don't pause to pay
[17:40]attention to like what is just being nice look like.
[17:44]I feel like this is when I asked my husband, I was like, you were flirting with me, right?
[17:48]Or were you just being really friendly?
[17:50]Like, like, did we just take this in the totally wrong direction by accident?
[17:55]Like, maybe this is all of us understanding because sometimes it's hard to tell.
[18:00]It's especially in like the teenage world which is super layered, super complicated, you know,
[18:07]and there's all these dynamics and some kids just don't read those dynamics easily.
[18:13]But your book is saying that this is not something you're born with and it's something
[18:17]that you can fix like this is not it's not a fixed trait, it's it's malleable, right?
[18:24]It's your theory and this is how you do it.
[18:26]Yeah, it's based on research.
[18:28]So it's not just like Caroline before I know, I'm sorry, it's not, I mean, I want
[18:32]to tell characters that like it can be fixed and we know it can be fixed and professionals
[18:37]know how to help this, but if your kids just really anxious and they don't have a diagnosis,
[18:45]their problems.
[18:48]So now you as a parent are there on the front lines with a kid who every day comes home
[18:54]from school and you know they're not going to the lunch room or you know they're not talking
[19:00]to other kids or you know they're clinging to that one friend who you know God help us
[19:05]they move away.
[19:06]Right.
[19:07]Yes.
[19:08]So that's I mean that's really it can be changed and we know how to change it and we're
[19:13]just trying to get parent that tool to change it.
[19:16]Just out of curiosity, is there a time like is there a point at which it's too late
[19:21]to teach these skills?
[19:22]No.
[19:23]I actually have a few psychiatrists who love to refer adults to me and I you know really
[19:29]love working with kids but I also believe in there's never too late and I've had adults
[19:35]as old as 60, do different iterations of these things and totally change everything and
[19:42]it all starts with that chapter about the stories where we talk about the stories, we
[19:47]tell ourselves you know smart kids don't have friends kind of stories, these 60-year-old
[19:52]adult have stories like you know I'm a smart person in the room so it's okay if I tell
[19:57]everybody or you know the adult to check.
[20:00]their own, and they check whether something you said is correct.
[20:04]Lee, this is the correct information. And what I found is a bacon change, but we start still
[20:12]with that story. And we talk about that story. And instead of the parents being involved, often
[20:19]there's spouses involved. Interesting. And telling you the real deal, you know, this is what's going on.
[20:24]So there's so much good advice in this book, but you also organize it in a really great way.
[20:30]And you have quizzes. So you can figure out like, which deficits do you really want to shore up? And
[20:36]you can pick which chapter to read based on that based on, you know, I was thinking, oh my gosh, I
[20:41]need to like take these quizzes four times for each of my kids. Like I need to get four copies of
[20:45]this book or something. But it's really, you know, all the ways that you help people get to the
[20:52]information that they themselves need. I feel like are particularly relevant in a way that you
[20:57]can't just do, you know, off the cuff, right? But in as much as you could do without seeing someone
[21:02]in front of you, I feel like, you know, I could find my kids in your book. That was a long way of
[21:07]saying that, but. Well, we spent like before we even sold the book, we spent like two years on the
[21:14]organization and the jargon piece. And like, how do you say things in a really user friendly way and
[21:21]take all of the, you know, psycho babble stuff out so that parents are like looking words up in
[21:27]the dictionary, you don't even do that. And we really spent a lot of time on like who are these kids
[21:32]so that we could make sure that you did see your kid in the book. And, you know, I'm really glad
[21:38]you like the quizzes, a group last night told me that they were like focused solely on the first
[21:43]couple chapters about communication. We're like, I don't know if I'll ever get to the quizzes. And
[21:49]I said, you know, that's okay. I would love it if you did because I think that can really make
[21:53]such a difference. But I also know that, you know, for some families, just that communication piece
[21:58]is so key and they have to start and sort of stay there for a while. I feel like every school should
[22:05]make their parents read this. Like, I want to go to my kid's school and be like, like, because every
[22:10]put every parent, like think about if everybody helps their kids get these social skills,
[22:14]how great that would be. Like a class with 60 people, all of whom are implementing the tactics
[22:20]in this book, right? It would be like a dream come true. The teachers would like hug us, right?
[22:24]Anyway, I would love to have that happen because what we're doing about bullying and stuff
[22:30]right now, it doesn't work. And the conversation we're having is sort of just spinning in the same
[22:35]cycle over and over again. And, you know, the fact is that the bully, the bystander and the victim,
[22:40]they all need help. And I think that, you know, when I do work with schools and I do even just
[22:46]get the teachers to know more because the teachers are, again, like right there, face with all
[22:51]this stuff, it really does make a difference. So I am not telling people to bombard their schools,
[22:56]but if you do, I have seen it make a difference. I'll tell them. You don't have to tell them.
[23:02]Everybody get your school to get this book. Tell me a little more about the process. So you spent
[23:07]two years outlining the book and you did that with Teresa Barker. I'm just going to hear you
[23:11]co-wrote this way, I thought. Yeah. Well, what happened was I have these great literary agents
[23:16]and they are actually developmental editors. So they took the process. I had they took everything
[23:22]that I had laid out. I already had it outlined and laid out in a proposal. And then they helped me
[23:29]just work on all the wording, work on all of the, you know, there's these butt boxes and we worked
[23:35]on all these questions that parents have. And we created like lists and we pulled it all together
[23:42]of like what are all the things parents are going to say or need answers to. And then Teresa Barker
[23:48]came on board and she helped us make it beautiful and coherent. And she's written, she's
[23:55]collaborated on many books, raids and caves, spiritual child, big disconnect. And she was just brilliant
[24:01]also at like bringing this all out for me. You know, she would ask me questions and I'd be like,
[24:08]oh yeah. And also she is just a mother and a grandmother. And so she knew that you basically
[24:17]everyone involved in this process. My editor, my publicist, they're all moms. So they all know like
[24:24]why this is so important. And so it was just this great team. As you said in your acknowledgement
[24:28]section, you said throughout this journey, there were times when I wondered if I should continue
[24:32]and in each moment the universe sent me a resounding no. So I felt like that, you might have had
[24:36]some self doubt along the way of this book. Is that true? And you know, I did because it was such
[24:42]a big epic thing to take on. And, you know, there was also this part of me that was like,
[24:47]why haven't some of these, you know, famous PhDs done this yet? And I would have like these incidents,
[24:56]like at one point I was thinking of going with this smaller publisher. And it would have been just
[25:01]an easier road. And a father came up to me on July 4th at a bonfire. He had never spoken to me before
[25:08]in my life. He knew from his mother. He knew from my mother what I was doing. And he said, if you
[25:14]have a chance to spread this to millions of kids, you have to. And he said how his daughter,
[25:20]like he just started talking and he was a very shy person. He was like, my daughter has switched
[25:24]schools because she was so bullied. She's been so miserable. We struggle with our other two kids.
[25:30]And he just was like, you need to keep going. And that would happen to me. Like at the supermarket
[25:35]at the nail salon, like somebody would start talking to me. And I would realize like people really
[25:41]need this. I have to keep going. Even though, you know, it was a little bit daunting at times.
[25:46]Well, it's really great. You didn't give up. Well, I didn't give up. Next thing's like,
[25:52]oh, yeah, of course you didn't give up. But I mean, it was like all consuming. And at the time
[25:56]I started the proposal, I had a six month old. Oh, how old are your kids now? My son is five.
[26:04]And my daughter is 11. So I'm in two totally different spheres for him. It's the plating. It's the,
[26:11]you know, please don't, you know, hog this and share and remember your manners. And then with her,
[26:18]we're entering that teenage phase where, you know, people send horrible texts to a chain of
[26:25]people. And you're like, who gave these kids cell phones? So it's totally polar.
[26:31]I'm in your exact same spot. I have 12 year old twins. And then I have a six year old and a five year
[26:36]old. So I have that same divide and like, you know, the differences between, you know,
[26:42]my six year old saying, you know, this boy is so annoying because he keeps coming over and like,
[26:47]what are you talking to me? I'm like, that's not annoying. He likes you today. Like, and then,
[26:51]you know, anyway, yes, but that's what keeps parenting interesting, right? All the different issues
[26:54]of all the time. And just, you know, it's great because I am so fortunate to have such a wonderful
[27:03]experience with working with so many kids. So when things come up, I'm like, oh, I saw it.
[27:11]Wow. So what do you have coming next? So in terms of next books or in terms of the next
[27:18]anything, like take me through the next stage of your life, you're going to make this
[27:22]Matt soon enough, right? When you get the time to put your feet on the mat is coming up.
[27:27]Yeah. And there's going to be very soon, maybe even like later today, videos going up on my
[27:33]website. So I took the real conversations I've had with kids because a new parents would be like,
[27:40]wait, I want to see this. And I had videos made. And they're the real words of real kids,
[27:48]the people doing in our actors because people weren't like, yes, please put my child all over America.
[27:55]The actual words are the real words of kids. And so it's very real. And so you can see resistant
[28:01]kids and social spy and full coaching conversation. And then also,
[28:06]we didn't. And what is your website for people who now want to look this up?
[28:09]Caroline Maguireauthor.com and it's M-H-E-U-I-R-E.
[28:13]The next phase is also the Matt as well as learn to open someone else's shoes, Matt as well as
[28:19]groups so that I'll have webinars laying all this out and allowing you to participate and sort of
[28:26]get that information live. Have you said about trying to write this for kids? Like a kid would read
[28:33]it with their parent like a workbook or something like that? One of my early plans 15 years ago
[28:42]was a little bit more like a kid would do it. But then I really realized that, you know, kids
[28:48]who lack self-awareness, they need that guidance. So I think the parent was the right way to go for
[28:56]why I won't play with me, but put down the road. I would definitely think about that. And I definitely
[29:01]want to do a book for adult. Excellent. Well, I'm really exciting. Do you have any advice to
[29:06]any aspiring authors out there? And then also anyone struggling with social skills problems
[29:12]in general? My advice for aspiring authors is that there really is a need to sort of
[29:19]be tenacious and if you think of a good idea, you know, run the search on Amazon and if it does
[29:26]the exist and you think there's need, you know, don't give up because I used to like run the search
[29:33]and realize, no, no, we've done it yet, okay, you know. And a lot of times the the best ideas are
[29:40]stuff that, you know, it's really obvious, but everybody, you know, hasn't done it. And then for
[29:47]social skills, what I would say is that I really don't think it's ever too late. And I really think
[29:53]that if we give this to our children, we're giving them the greatest gift because this affects
[29:58]the workplace and affects it.
[30:00]They're interpersonal relationships,
[30:01]you're spouse, you're partner.
[30:03]And we focus so much on academics in this country,
[30:07]but honestly, social is really what makes people happy.
[30:12]So I really hope that people will try this
[30:15]because why don't we play with me
[30:17]to really give you something pretty special with your kid.
[30:20]Amazing.
[30:21]Caroline, thank you so much.
[30:22]Thank you for not giving up.
[30:23]Thank you for putting this out there
[30:25]and giving parents just the hands-on tools
[30:28]that they need to help their kids,
[30:29]which I feel like a lot of time is all we're looking for.
[30:31]It's just someone telling us like how we can help.
[30:33]So thank you for doing that.
[30:35]Oh, I don't have no problem.
[30:36]Thank you for having me.
[30:37]Of course.
[30:38]All right, well, I'll be looking for your mat.
[30:41]I'm gonna order one.
[30:42]Oh, yeah, it will.
[30:43]We'll test out the prototype.
[30:45]That's five, you four, it's fantastic.
[30:47]Yeah.
[30:48]Extra-large mat.
[30:49]Thank you.
[30:51]Thanks for listening to Mom soon.
[30:53]I have time to read books, the award-winning podcast.
[30:56]This episode has been sponsored by Book of the Month Club.
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[31:03]You can follow me on Instagram at momstonehavetime
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[31:07]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound
[31:10]for the Sound Editing.
[31:11]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[31:13]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[31:16]Thanks for listening.
[31:17]You can always email me at zibiadzibiowens.com.