Sheryl Haft, GOODNIGHT BUBBALA
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens and you're listening
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[0:12]Moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:01]I'm excited to be here today with Cheryl Haff,
[1:03]who's the author of a good night, Boobula.
[1:06]Also, baby boo, I love you, I love blankie,
[1:09]and the upcoming Maisie's amazing machines.
[1:11]A former product designer, she's the founder
[1:14]and educator of Kids Engineer, an elementary after school
[1:16]program that teaches engineering principles
[1:19]through design and invention building.
[1:20]The program originally founded at three
[1:22]all-girls schools in New York City,
[1:24]now runs in the Jackson Hall School System.
[1:26]Cheryl currently resides in Wyoming and New York.
[1:29]So thanks Cheryl, thanks for coming on mom's
[1:31]no time to read books.
[1:32]Thank you for having me.
[1:33]I'm so thrilled.
[1:35]So good night, Boobula, discuss.
[1:38]How did you come up with the idea to write this book?
[1:41]Well, good night, Moon was written in 1947,
[1:44]and it's such a calm and beautiful book
[1:46]with a quite old lady whispering hush.
[1:49]But I couldn't help but wonder what that story
[1:51]would look like today.
[1:52]And in particular, what would it look like with my family?
[1:55]My big, not so quiet, Jewish family.
[1:59]And that's when I realized I wanted to write a book
[2:02]where they would come bursting into this bedtime
[2:05]with singing and dancing with their Yiddish words.
[2:10]And then of course with something to eat a notch.
[2:12]You have to.
[2:14]I was having my son wanted to have a sleepover
[2:17]the other night.
[2:17]And he's like, now we have to get all of our midnight snacks.
[2:20]I was like, I don't think so.
[2:22]It's like eight o'clock, but anyway.
[2:24]So you have written other children's books, too.
[2:27]How did you start doing that to begin with?
[2:30]Well, I had worked for Warner Brothers
[2:31]in product design and licensing.
[2:33]And I actually wound up heading up the children's book
[2:36]licensing division, creating books based on Batman
[2:39]and Bugs Bunny.
[2:40]So I became oriented towards children's books early
[2:43]on in my career.
[2:44]But it wasn't until I had children of my own
[2:46]that I started writing stories.
[2:48]Similar to how people write poetry,
[2:50]I just loved it as a creative outlet, creating stories.
[2:54]But it took me probably about eight years
[2:57]until I finally got a love you blankie published.
[2:59]And what was that like, did you do multiple iterations
[3:02]of the book or did you just keep sending it out
[3:04]to my publishers?
[3:05]That book got so close a few times,
[3:07]but it was such a visual book that I finally decided
[3:11]to hire an artist to do a spread and to do the cover.
[3:15]And although publishers traditionally don't like you
[3:17]to do that, they generally pair the illustrator
[3:20]with the writer somehow I think that helped this particular
[3:24]editor see what I meant about the book.
[3:26]Because it's very much about a child,
[3:28]like Harold and the Purple Crayon.
[3:30]It's very much about a child using his blankie
[3:32]and sailing the seas, flying to the moon
[3:35]and parachuting down into bed.
[3:37]And I think when she saw that,
[3:39]she realized that she wanted to publish it.
[3:41]That was a little brown.
[3:42]And did you do any of the illustrations ahead of time
[3:45]for this book for a good night, Boba?
[3:46]You know, I think as I was trained as a designer,
[3:49]I always write in a sketchbook.
[3:51]And I draw my ideas with no intentions
[3:54]of that representing the art.
[3:56]But on the very visual writer, so yes,
[3:59]I mean, I've basically drew out good night, Boba,
[4:02]with this crazy little Jewish stick figure family.
[4:05]LAUGHTER
[4:07]How did your family respond to this book?
[4:10]Were they thrilled?
[4:11]Honestly, I think my family is so touched by this book.
[4:17]My family was very touched by the Holocaust.
[4:20]We have family members that are still in Europe
[4:22]and actually are still sort of part of the diaspora
[4:25]because of World War II.
[4:27]I had family that wound up in Israel, in Australia,
[4:30]and in Germany.
[4:31]And this book has touched them all.
[4:33]It feels a little bit like we've kind of regather
[4:36]our family together and connected it back to our history.
[4:39]Where did your family come from originally?
[4:41]Did you start in Germany, all of you?
[4:43]And then, well, no, so are my family
[4:44]was originally from Poland and from Russia?
[4:47]Well, and can you talk about this?
[4:50]Is this okay exactly where any of we're hard to be
[4:52]with our family in the camps, or?
[4:54]My father's father came here because he was pursuing
[4:57]a career in acting and dancing.
[5:00]And in the late 1930s, when the war broke out,
[5:02]he had a newsstand on the Upper West Side.
[5:05]And even though he didn't make a lot of money,
[5:07]whatever he could, he sent over to the ghettos in Warsaw.
[5:11]And that's where my family members were.
[5:14]And three of those children survived.
[5:16]They were actually in Auschwitz.
[5:18]And the three family members survived.
[5:21]And as came out of the camps as teenagers.
[5:24]Oh my gosh.
[5:25]It's, yeah, and now we reconnected.
[5:27]We didn't actually know that until 1969
[5:30]when we got a phone call.
[5:31]And who, my father got a phone call from a man
[5:35]who had become wealthy, a builder in Germany,
[5:38]and he called and said, I'm your cousin.
[5:41]And we reconnected.
[5:42]So it's a very, very meaningful part of our family
[5:46]to connect back to the Irish language,
[5:48]and to the Jewish roots.
[5:49]And that's somewhere in this book, they're in there.
[5:52]Well, it's like a book of healing, too, right?
[5:54]It's like a, it is, I don't know, connecting and healing.
[5:58]And it is.
[5:59]I've read this book to an 86-year-old woman.
[6:02]And it made me realize that picture books
[6:04]could be so meaningful for seniors.
[6:07]I mean, she teared off.
[6:08]She said this book reminds me of my family,
[6:10]of my own grandmother.
[6:12]So it's been such a surprise to see how it evokes nostalgia
[6:16]and emotion for people.
[6:17]This is also an excellent new marketing outlet
[6:19]for picture books.
[6:21]I know.
[6:21]That's fantastic.
[6:23]I feel like I really want to go to assisted living
[6:26]and to sort of connect with the elderly.
[6:29]And it would also be nice for them
[6:30]to write books for each other,
[6:32]like give everybody a part of my purpose.
[6:34]I feel like at that stage of life, sometimes there's not.
[6:37]But if there was a whole imprint for elderly, right?
[6:40]I don't know.
[6:41]You're so right.
[6:42]I mean, we all love the little preschool books
[6:45]that our kids write and dictate.
[6:47]They're so charming.
[6:48]But I think you're right.
[6:49]I think there's something there, right?
[6:50]And they have time to read.
[6:52]Yes, right?
[6:53]It's not like, yes.
[6:54]I feel like so many books are marketed
[6:55]at the busiest people during the busiest stages.
[6:58]And then people forget, like, what about,
[7:01]what do they want to read?
[7:01]Hello, I have to say my grandmother is 96,
[7:03]and she reads like all the best sellers.
[7:05]That's true.
[7:05]Yeah.
[7:06]But she would probably, but she would love this book.
[7:08]I have to, next time I see her, I'm bringing it to her.
[7:10]Oh, yes, please do.
[7:11]Good morning.
[7:12]But the Yiddish language, let's talk a little more about that
[7:14]because you have so many of these words
[7:16]that I know I grew up with.
[7:17]And they're just like, I say without thinking.
[7:19]And yet people are like, what?
[7:21]You're like, what, you're Michigan?
[7:24]Like, what do you tell you?
[7:25]Like, what?
[7:26]So, and yet you have them all in the book or so many of them.
[7:29]Are you worried?
[7:30]Do you worry about Yiddish becoming completely obsolete?
[7:34]Like, do you think it's only now?
[7:35]I mean, it's something that has to be passed down
[7:37]in families, basically.
[7:38]There's no, you can't go to a Yiddish class
[7:40]and I'm thinking.
[7:41]I don't know, what do you think about it?
[7:42]I know you're right.
[7:43]I mean, I happen to have gone to Camp Kindering,
[7:45]which was sponsored by the Workman Circle
[7:47]when I was growing up.
[7:48]And I mean, even in what they sort of
[7:50]the version of Color War, we had Maccabean games.
[7:55]And I remember like trying to teach half the camp,
[7:58]this song in Yiddish.
[8:00]And so I learned from an early age.
[8:03]I mean, my grandmother would take my face in her hands
[8:06]and just say, you know, she ain't a punum.
[8:07]So I always associated with something expressive and warm.
[8:12]Of course, around New Yorkers, you sort of hear people
[8:15]saying what a schlap and don't fetch.
[8:18]I just think the language is so vibrant and so expressive.
[8:22]I mean, as a children's book writer,
[8:23]so many children's books have not more than 500 words.
[8:27]Goodnight, Bubba only has, I think, 141.
[8:30]And so the power that Yiddish words pack
[8:33]is just such a special language.
[8:36]I think that many young families,
[8:39]maybe they're not interested in being religious,
[8:42]but there seems to be a sort of a retro interest in culture.
[8:46]And this idea of learning some of these words
[8:49]and being able to pass them down to your kids,
[8:52]I think is very timely.
[8:54]I think so too.
[8:55]Yeah, and then like the filter on the roof
[8:57]from Broadway and Yiddish, the fact that that's sold out
[9:00]and then shows like schtischl and then there's a YouTube
[9:04]video that's sort of viral called,
[9:06]Bead Life Crisis.
[9:07]No, that's so funny.
[9:09]Oh my gosh, I have to show that to my daughters.
[9:11]Of course, like most twins obsessed with YouTube.
[9:13]It's a moment, so maybe I could at least flame her
[9:15]in the right direction.
[9:17]Yeah, I don't know.
[9:19]I also love that you included the me and my Miss Pacha family
[9:22]journal on your website and all these other resources.
[9:25]What made you think of that?
[9:26]I printed that out for my kids too.
[9:29]Complete.
[9:30]Thanks for doing that.
[9:30]Yeah, I know, I haven't done so much.
[9:32]Well, I learned in my last two books
[9:34]that people love to be able to close the book
[9:36]and then have an activity.
[9:38]Of course, we have this recipe, which is wonderful.
[9:41]Yes, I meant to talk about that too.
[9:42]But for teachers and parents that, you know,
[9:44]aren't, don't have the time to cook.
[9:46]I was very interested in having ways
[9:48]to extend the lessons and to have fun with the book.
[9:51]So my niece is an early education teacher.
[9:54]And she talked about the materials that she wished
[9:57]that she has or she wishes for books.
[9:59]And...
[10:00]The two activities, one is for when you're reading the book,
[10:02]The Ice By Game, and kids seem to love finding something
[10:06]that's read, finding the mouse, which is a fun treat.
[10:09]And then after the book, the me and my amish pakha
[10:12]journal gives a chance for kids of any heritage
[10:15]to reflect on their family, to share their family's favorite
[10:20]activities, their favorite foods.
[10:22]And I think to honor the idea that everybody
[10:25]has families with their own, with its special idiosyncrasies.
[10:30]That's for sure.
[10:31]And tell me about how, so Eina Garten wrote,
[10:34]a lot of the recipe that you included in the book.
[10:37]How did that happen?
[10:38]Is she a friend of yours?
[10:39]How did you just have that happen?
[10:41]I know and I became friendly a couple years ago.
[10:43]We met socially.
[10:45]And I talked to her about my kids engineer program.
[10:48]And in particular, at that time, I was making solar-powered
[10:52]ovens out of shoeboxes.
[10:54]And I had just been making s'mores that week.
[10:58]And I think because Eina is, of course, a wonderful cook,
[11:02]but also part scientist, she just was so interested in the work
[11:07]that I was doing with kids engineer, that we
[11:10]just started talking and spending more time together.
[11:13]Over breakfast, one morning, I was reading her a few lines
[11:16]of the book.
[11:17]I was telling her about it.
[11:18]I think I read two little puppies,
[11:20]schlepping their cubbies, and one doesn't
[11:22]bagels on a pot of canadles.
[11:24]And she just burst out laughing.
[11:26]She thought the book was brilliant and important.
[11:30]And she said right then and there,
[11:32]I'm going to make you a locker recipe.
[11:34]And she did.
[11:34]So it was not even an existing locker recipe.
[11:37]She just crafted it for you.
[11:38]And you got to put it in.
[11:40]Well, I mean, I learned through that that Eina is part scientist.
[11:44]She made that locker.
[11:46]Even though she'd made lockers before,
[11:48]she made this particular one 12 different ways.
[11:51]In a cast iron pan, in a Teflon pan,
[11:54]she had thought about doing it in a waffle iron.
[11:56]And she got it right.
[11:59]Well, yeah.
[12:00]And then she threw that wonderful lunch party.
[12:03]Cheers, so nice to invite me to.
[12:05]It was amazing.
[12:06]Like the people were like, well, this is like this.
[12:09]I mean, she and her husband have become good friends
[12:12]of my husband and mine.
[12:14]And they are just so generous and wonderful.
[12:17]And they had offered to do that party.
[12:19]And I think she had a lot of fun deciding
[12:21]which foods to serve.
[12:22]And did a lot of research, finding the best black and white
[12:25]cookies around the city.
[12:27]And then, and she picked green very exciting.
[12:29]She had what it gave us.
[12:30]Yeah, they were amazing.
[12:32]But then also making, I think, well over 200 her own ruegla.
[12:36]And then, of course, the lock is.
[12:38]She's amazing.
[12:39]Oh, my gosh.
[12:40]Yeah.
[12:40]We tell me more about kids engineer and how you started that.
[12:43]You know, I was a design major.
[12:45]I was always interested in building inventions and inventing
[12:49]things.
[12:50]And I came across a curriculum called Engineering
[12:53]as Elementary, which comes out of the Museum of Science
[12:56]in Boston.
[12:57]And I thought, what a wonderful after-school program
[13:00]that would make.
[13:02]So I got trained in Boston in that program
[13:04]and then brought it to three different all-girl schools
[13:07]in the city.
[13:08]And for many years, I had an after-school program
[13:11]called Kids Engineer.
[13:12]Now, because I'm not full-time in New York,
[13:15]I still do the workshops in Jackson Hole
[13:17]in the elementary schools.
[13:18]And did you just bring this curriculum to the schools
[13:21]or did you actually teach the classes?
[13:23]No, I first brought it to the science departments.
[13:25]And they were really excited about it.
[13:28]They said, this is what kids need to be doing,
[13:30]like more sort of prototyping, trial and error,
[13:33]experimentation.
[13:35]So the science department was super excited about me doing that
[13:39]as an after-school program.
[13:39]But I taught all the classes, and I still do.
[13:42]Oh, you teach them all yourself?
[13:43]Yeah.
[13:44]That's so great.
[13:45]Another teacher that trained at Brierly.
[13:47]And because with all humility, it was so popular,
[13:50]we had to double up and had two of the same classes,
[13:54]because I think kids loved it and parents loved
[13:56]their daughters learning about engineering.
[13:59]What if somebody, what if I want my daughter to do that?
[14:02]Like, is it gone?
[14:03]Like, how does somebody get it now?
[14:04]Like, will you come back?
[14:06]Oh, yeah.
[14:07]You know, the curriculum is actually very accessible.
[14:12]Engineering is elementary.
[14:13]It's actually a binder that you can order
[14:15]from the Museum of Science.
[14:18]And you can do some of that stuff at home.
[14:19]And they have a lot of even workshops and curriculums
[14:23]that you could download.
[14:23]So I would take a look at, I think, it's mos.org.
[14:26]OK.
[14:27]And how did you end up spending part of your time
[14:29]in Jackson Hall now?
[14:31]My husband and I were ready for an adventure.
[14:34]At the same time, our last daughter was leaving for college.
[14:36]We were sort of jealous, and we thought, OK, well,
[14:38]what's our event's going to be?
[14:41]And I was able to bring kids engineering to Jackson Hall
[14:44]and also continue my writing.
[14:47]He started to have a lot of work on the West Coast.
[14:49]So it sort of made sense for us to plant a flag there.
[14:52]And we both always love the outdoors and the mountains.
[14:56]And it's been very invigorating, especially
[14:58]when there's 500 inches of snow in the winter hall,
[15:01]my gosh.
[15:01]I can't even imagine.
[15:03]Do you have plans for more children's books?
[15:06]I do.
[15:07]This is a dream come true.
[15:09]Being able to both write for children
[15:12]and then also to share my books.
[15:14]About to embark on a book tour, the Saturday
[15:18]I go to Houston, a lot of the family festivals.
[15:21]And I really make my events interactive.
[15:24]I'm always there with the musician.
[15:26]I've had two songs created for the book.
[15:29]And so we not only read the book together,
[15:31]but we dance and sing along.
[15:33]And I teach the kids a lot of the words.
[15:34]So it's such a joy to sort of see the book
[15:37]from beginning all the way through its presentation.
[15:41]My next book is actually a book that I sold in 2015
[15:45]to Nancy Paulson.
[15:46]And it's just taken a while to get the right illustrator
[15:50]and the right illustrations.
[15:52]It's called Meizie's Amazing Machines.
[15:54]And it's a little girl engineer.
[15:56]And I have to say the artwork has been worth the wait,
[15:58]because Jeremy Holmes is amazing.
[16:01]And I think we look forward to sort of having
[16:03]a brand new character on the scene
[16:05]and having a character that could help teach kids
[16:08]about engineering principles.
[16:10]Very cool.
[16:11]And are you writing anything new?
[16:13]A little weird.
[16:14]Aside from all of that stuff.
[16:15]Because that's not enough for me.
[16:16]So keep going.
[16:17]Do you like any of my ideas?
[16:18]I loved your ideas.
[16:19]Here are some of my titles.
[16:20]The little yanta that could, are you my mamala?
[16:24]If you give a shiksa a shnacken, that's all I could come up with.
[16:29]It's funny, because in writing Good Night Bubba lot,
[16:32]I looked a lot at the choice of Yiddish, Leo Rossman's book.
[16:35]And if you read through that book,
[16:37]you just see 90% of Yiddish words are sort of negative.
[16:42]A lot of them are there are 10 different ways
[16:44]to call somebody a simpleton.
[16:46]Like, what a shmendrick.
[16:47]What a shmiel.
[16:49]So I did have in mind kind of the dark side of a book
[16:53]where you sit something like, instead of where
[16:56]the wild things are, where the michigan is are.
[16:58]Some kind of crazy book.
[17:00]But I'm always writing.
[17:01]I'm always, I have about three different manuscripts
[17:04]that I'm working on right now.
[17:06]And a couple of the characters that I'd
[17:07]love to bring out into the world.
[17:09]It's exciting.
[17:10]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[17:12]S-C-B-W-I has been a mainstay, not just for me,
[17:17]but for all the writers that I know.
[17:19]It's not society of book illustrators and a society
[17:23]of book illustrators and illustrators.
[17:28]And I mean, they have chapters all over the country.
[17:30]They have two really fabulous conferences,
[17:33]and one here in New York, generally in January or February.
[17:36]And then one in LA in August.
[17:39]And being a part of S-C-B-W-I has been empowering.
[17:42]They have wonderful professional series in New York
[17:45]where you get to hear from editors, writers, and illustrators.
[17:48]Conferences are very inspiring.
[17:51]The second thing I would really advocate for
[17:53]is getting involved with highlights foundation.
[17:56]And I've gone to workshops there at their campus in Pennsylvania.
[18:00]And you get your own little writers cabin
[18:02]and wonderful food in the barn.
[18:04]And a chance to often meet editors,
[18:06]work with other writers, and really work on your craft.
[18:10]Is that like Yato for children's books?
[18:12]Yato, like the artist colony, where you go, and is it like that?
[18:15]Is it like a retreat, like a retreat?
[18:18]I mean, you can go to one of the regularly scheduled workshops.
[18:21]You can even go and rent a cabin out for a couple of days
[18:24]on your own.
[18:25]And it's so high-latable.
[18:27]It's the highlights foundation from highlights magazine.
[18:29]Oh, yeah, that's OK.
[18:30]Yeah, it's a really, really special place.
[18:33]And actually, that's where I met Nancy Paulson.
[18:36]And she went up by my engineer girl book.
[18:39]And also my previous book, Baby Boo, I Love You.
[18:42]We have a favorite Yiddish word to end this conversation.
[18:46]I love OI and OI-V-A.
[18:48]It's so flexible.
[18:50]It can be used to show empathy.
[18:52]Like if you tell me you had a hard day, I can say, oh, I, you know, I'm so sorry.
[18:56]It could be used as like a happy form of expression.
[18:58]If you tell me your son just got into college,
[19:01]I can say, oh, congratulations.
[19:04]So it's so versatile.
[19:05]I'd have to go with OI and OI-V-A.
[19:08]I would pick the mention, I think.
[19:09]I feel like I used that word a lot.
[19:10]Oh, you beat me.
[19:11]Munch is better than all of them.
[19:13]OK.
[19:15]My husband is a producer.
[19:16]And he's been working on this movie, getting made called The Match.
[19:20]What?
[19:20]Yeah.
[19:22]I mean, the last line of my book is, you know,
[19:25]good night kisses, good night stores above,
[19:27]good night, bubble at my munch.
[19:29]Oh, my love.
[19:29]And it is the swish that when you're putting your child to sleep,
[19:32]that you're, you know, hopeful that they will be a munch.
[19:34]Sounds nice.
[19:35]Well, thanks so much for coming.
[19:36]My mom's time to read books.
[19:37]Thank you, Zibi, such a pleasure and an honor.
[19:40]Thanks.
[19:41]Thanks for listening to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books,
[19:44]the award-winning podcast.
[19:46]Today's episode of Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books
[19:48]was sponsored by pediatrician in your pocket
[19:51]by Dr. Jennifer Tractenberg, Dr. DashGen.com,
[19:55]and your code, PIP20, PIP20, for 20% off of-
[20:00]These can't miss modules that will make your parenting life so much easier.
[20:04]You can follow me on Instagram at mumsdon'thavetimetoreadbooks.
[20:08]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound for the Sound Editing.
[20:12]And thank you to Morningmoon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[20:16]Thanks for listening.
[20:17]You can always email me at Zibi at Zibi Owens.com.