Rachel Barenbaum, A BEND IN THE STARS
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[1:00]Zibi Owens.com. I'm here via Skype with Rachel Barrenbaum, who's the debut author of
[1:04]Abandon the Stars, the historical novel. It was a New York Times summer reading selection,
[1:09]and a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers pick. It was also a Boston Globe bestseller.
[1:14]A graduate of Harvard College, Harvard Business School, and the Grubstreet Novel Incubator
[1:18]Program. Rachel was a hedge fund manager and spinning instructor before committing to full-time work
[1:22]as a writer. She is a writer and reviewer at the LA review of books and deaddarlings.com
[1:28]from the Grubstreet Incubator Program, and also Tel Aviv Review of Books. She currently lives in
[1:33]Brooklyn, Massachusetts, with her husband and three kids. Thanks Rachel for coming on mom's
[1:37]time to read books. Thanks so much for having me, Zibi. You're novel,
[1:44]abandoned the stars. So, so good. The characters were so real. I feel like I was with them,
[1:50]like in the trenches, like going down the hill, look at the boats, and like all the rest of it.
[1:55]Anyway, so good. Can you tell listeners what this novel was about and what inspired you to write it?
[2:02]Yeah, so, I mean, on the surface, it's the story of a scientist racing Einstein to prove
[2:07]relativity, and he goes on this quest and gets lost, and so his sister basically goes after him,
[2:16]and Mary, who is one of Russia's first female surgeons, saves the day. She's the hero of the book,
[2:22]and it's really about love and the history and science and survival, so it's sort of all
[2:29]thrown in together. But where the idea came from was I was reading an issue of Scientific American,
[2:36]and it said 100 years ago this month, Einstein was on the verge of proving relativity. He had
[2:42]the theory, he had equations, but he didn't have an actual photograph, which would be a picture
[2:48]of light bending around the sun, a photograph he could only take during a total solar eclipse,
[2:53]and one was coming. So he raised money, mounted an expedition, sent them up to Russia, where the
[2:59]total solar eclipse was going to be happening, only World War I broke out, so his expedition never made
[3:05]it, and relativity was not proven until much later, well, 1919. So even before I put the magazine
[3:12]down, I thought, what if somebody beat Einstein? And that is where I started the book, with my
[3:18]scientist, racing to beat Einstein, who's in Russia, who can actually get to that eclipse.
[3:23]And why were you reading this magazine to begin with? Scientific American, yes.
[3:28]I'm just like, are you a scientist? Are you, did you, are you, like, you were an English
[3:32]major, right? Were you pre-med also? Are you just like an armchair scientist, in addition to
[3:38]everything else? Yes. So I am just a lover of science, and I studied philosophy and literature in
[3:46]college, and really one of the big questions that I struggled with and still struggle with is,
[3:52]what is time? What is this notion of time? I mean, a second, an hour, a calendar, it's something
[3:58]we have invented. We've all agreed on it, and it's really important to have schedules, and I
[4:03]think, right, to organize, for example, train schedules, but it's just made up. And so what is time?
[4:09]So I really came at it and Einstein from the philosophical perspective. You know, he wasn't really
[4:14]even a very good mathematician. I mean, it was better than me, genius mathematician. He was more
[4:21]of this genius thinker, and he had genius mathematicians help him. I think I can see the headline.
[4:26]Einstein, barely smarter than Rachel Barrenbaum. The truth comes out all these years later.
[4:34]Oh my god. That would I mean. No, and I love how in the book you have all these scenes with time,
[4:42]and you have like them trying to explain this whole concept to maybe not so bright soldiers,
[4:48]and people that they meet along the way. Like, yes, it's important, but you know, in the taking
[4:52]apart, which was it a zenith lodge, or what brand did you mention, right a zenith? Anyway, it was
[4:59]very interesting, especially I think about time all the time and off too, and just had to use time
[5:04]and did it up, but maybe not from quite the scientific angle. Well, you know, Einstein was in the
[5:10]patent examiner's office working on machines to synchronize clocks. That's what got him thinking about
[5:18]time too, and that's where he came to this idea of light, because people were sending like
[5:22]pneumatic tubes, you know, blasts of air, all these other things, and so it was very much
[5:27]on, you know, on topic for that time period. I also loved how you have Mary, who's the daughter of a
[5:35]matchmaker, or sorry. Yeah, the grand daughter, grand daughter of a matchmaker, who is yet is like
[5:42]on the cutting edge of science of her time. She's the newly appointed surgeon at the hospital,
[5:47]and breaking tremendous ground, and a Jewish surgeon at that, which was like unheard of.
[5:53]How did you, like, what, who was the first Jewish surgeon in Europe or in Russia? Do any idea?
[5:59]Did you totally fictionalize this too? Did you look in, was that another magazine maybe you were
[6:03]reading about like early Jewish doctors or something? Right, right. It was a bestseller. Yeah.
[6:10]No, I mean, so I knew I love reading books about women with women protagonists who are breaking
[6:18]barriers, who are really pushing, you know, pushing ahead of their time. And so I always knew that
[6:23]Mary would be the center, and that she would be one of those characters. And really,
[6:28]medicine was sort of one of the obvious options for her, because lots of women were midwives,
[6:33]and that's sort of the evolution. So I just did a lot of research, and there were two or three
[6:37]women surgeons at the time, but they had in in Russia, but they had all been trained in France
[6:42]or Switzerland. So I did completely invent her character and put her in the Jewish hospital, because
[6:50]that is where people were more breaking, more apt to break convention, more apt to take chances,
[6:55]because they weren't really being watched, like, you know, the Zars hospital.
[7:00]So you read the scientific American, you come up with this idea, and then you go into the woods,
[7:05]in New Hampshire. Did I get that right? I read that somewhere. Was that, is that true?
[7:09]It was like, did you have your kids in? Like, tell me how this whole book went down.
[7:14]Yeah, I mean, I already was a little bit different than that. I had the kids, and we had moved to
[7:22]New Hampshire for job reasons. And I just sort of sat down one day, and I said, you know, what do you,
[7:29]I used to write books every night, and I had written like five or six novels that hadn't gone
[7:34]anywhere and queried, and, you know, sort of been in the pipeline, but none of them had published
[7:38]yet. And just sat down and said to myself, like, what do you want to do with your life 10 years from now?
[7:42]Do you still want to be trading stocks? And the answer was no. I do not want to be trading stocks.
[7:49]Do not want to be dealing with investors. I want to be writing, and I want to have books published,
[7:54]and I want to be immersed in books. And so, yeah, so I just woke up and got to it. So, wow.
[8:02]And when you approached this book, did you have an outline for the whole thing?
[8:06]Did you start with your characters? Like, how did you work your way into it and then execute it?
[8:11]Yeah. So, I definitely knew the beginning and the end, and I knew my main characters,
[8:18]but I actually started with Baba as sort of the, that I made the book from her perspective
[8:23]to begin with. But then when I started writing, I just didn't make sense by about page 100.
[8:29]I was trapped. I really realized this was Mary's story and Vanya's story much more than it was
[8:35]Baba's. So, sort of switched it around at that point. And how long did it take you to write it?
[8:42]So, I started in 2015, and then I applied to Grub Street's novel incubator program.
[8:49]And they have a year-long program where 10 writers basically sit in a room once a week,
[8:54]and we read each person's book once a week, and go through it. So, spend a whole year
[8:58]revising in this amazing program. And then at the end of the program, I got my agent at WME,
[9:05]Eve Atterman. And that's when I just decided to go full-time. I was like, I'm in,
[9:10]I got an agent, I've got to make this happen. And then I worked on it for a year with her,
[9:15]and then a couple of other agents at WME should pull them in to read it, you know, and give comments.
[9:21]And then she went out and she sold it. And she did an amazing job. She sold it quickly.
[9:26]I said, I told her, I was like, I don't think I can last for like a six-month sales process.
[9:31]And luckily she sold it pretty quickly. And then it took two years though to revise once it was
[9:36]at the publishers. Wow. So, almost like four years when all told writing and editing and
[9:43]publishing. And that's a lot. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, the publishing industry is slowed
[9:48]that way. It's usually two years from the time of purchase unless it's on Amazon.
[9:52]Because you have to go through all the editing. And then, you know, all of the publicity and the
[9:55]PR and sending out advanced review copies. And all that starts a good, uh, nine.
[10:00]months before the actual publication.
[10:02]I read your dream cast.
[10:05]You had published some who you would want to star in this movie.
[10:08]You read that.
[10:09]I did.
[10:10]You bought and read.
[10:11]Oh, yeah.
[10:12]I did a deep dive into you, Rachel.
[10:14]And this is what I came up with.
[10:17]So you had said, Jesse Eisenberg for Vanya.
[10:21]And I thought it would be more like Adam Driver.
[10:24]Do you know who I think?
[10:25]I think that's much better.
[10:26]What do you think?
[10:26]Yeah.
[10:27]OK.
[10:28]You had to just be jumping to do it, too.
[10:31]You said Gal Gadot for Mary.
[10:35]And I thought maybe more like, I don't know,
[10:38]maybe mini driver and Natalie Portman.
[10:40]I'm thinking a little.
[10:41]I don't know.
[10:42]What do you think now?
[10:43]Do you have any new views on casting?
[10:47]Yeah.
[10:47]I mean, I still love Gal Gadot.
[10:50]I just think, yeah.
[10:52]I like the strike that she brings.
[10:54]But I have to admit, I don't feel like casting
[10:57]is really my strength.
[11:00]I won't hold you to it.
[11:01]I was just curious.
[11:04]But it is fun to talk about because it has not been
[11:08]optioned yet.
[11:09]And I would love to see that happen.
[11:11]Awesome.
[11:12]I also read your essay from the Jewish Book Council,
[11:15]which you called, Went to Run.
[11:16]And you discuss the advice from your great ants,
[11:19]which is that you always have to be ready to run.
[11:21]And when you asked your great ants,
[11:23]how will you know when it's time?
[11:24]And they told you you'll know.
[11:26]And then when you went to Israel and you
[11:27]were sharing the story with all of these groups of elderly
[11:30]people, everybody was nodding their heads in agreement.
[11:33]And basically, everybody was saying the same thing.
[11:36]Tell me a little more about your experience
[11:37]with some of those survivors of the period of time.
[11:41]Yeah.
[11:42]You know, it was really moving because the book launched
[11:44]while I was living in Israel.
[11:46]And so I did have a chance to do about a dozen events
[11:49]in Israel and Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and in various other places
[11:52]that were around there.
[11:53]And it was very different.
[11:56]Because the survivors really stood up
[11:58]or, you know, grandchildren of survivors
[12:00]and really saw it as a story of survival.
[12:03]And while I know when I wrote it as a story of survival,
[12:07]I spent a lot more time on character development
[12:10]and a love story and science and really dug into that
[12:13]and sort of the survival wasn't as front and center for me
[12:17]by the time we got to publication.
[12:19]And then I realized, no, this is really what started the book.
[12:21]And so they sort of brought me back to that center
[12:24]and to my great aunts who had, you know,
[12:26]always reminded me to make sure my passport is ready to go
[12:30]and that I have emergency money.
[12:31]And so it was like, it was very emotional
[12:34]and I was so struck with how open they were
[12:37]and just willing to share.
[12:39]So and it was very different from now American audiences
[12:43]where sometimes I hear those stories,
[12:44]but more often than not, I hear a lot of,
[12:47]oh, I hadn't realized that antisemitism was that bad
[12:49]in Russia at the time.
[12:51]I mean, I knew for World War II was very bad,
[12:53]but I didn't know World War I and pogroms
[12:56]or they didn't have as clear of an understanding
[12:58]of what it was like to live as a Jew in Russia.
[13:01]And so, you know, it's been, it was a very big contrast
[13:05]that was very striking to me, which is why I wrote the essay.
[13:08]Do you think that there are places that your aunts
[13:11]would tell you to run from now?
[13:14]Well, definitely Russia, if we were still there,
[13:17]we would, we would be out of Russia and our feet.
[13:20]Yeah, I mean, seriously though, it is a,
[13:22]I mean, there are millions of people every day
[13:25]who are asking this question and who are running
[13:27]and who are stuck at borders or on boats
[13:30]or, you know, in horrible, horrible positions.
[13:32]And so it is as relevant today as it was then
[13:35]for my family and for Mary and Vanya.
[13:38]And it's heartbreaking, but really, you know,
[13:41]what's at the center of this need,
[13:44]this desire to run is this hope for a better life.
[13:47]And so there's actually this underlying optimism
[13:50]that I always try to look for
[13:51]because otherwise it's just so heartbreaking
[13:54]but this idea that there is a better life to come
[13:57]and I will sacrifice this or what it takes to get there
[14:00]for my children or for my future.
[14:03]And so I, you know, I think that's just important
[14:06]to keep in mind.
[14:07]Do you feel that you connected more with your Judaism
[14:11]through the story, through the writing of it
[14:13]or do you just feel like that was a means
[14:15]to an end of telling the story you wanted to tell
[14:17]or did it affect you?
[14:18]Did it not affect you personally?
[14:20]Yeah, that was an interesting question
[14:22]because I didn't, my connection didn't change at all.
[14:29]And it didn't, I guess if anything,
[14:32]what I learned about my Judaism is that I've always grown
[14:36]up with two calendars and in one calendar
[14:39]I have the Jewish holidays and like, you know,
[14:41]when Shabbat starts.
[14:42]So Jewish time is counted differently from what we've
[14:47]heard here in America, days start at sundown
[14:49]and it's sundown, not 12 to 12.
[14:52]And so, you know, my whole life had grown up, you know,
[14:55]while Russia's Shabbat starts tonight
[14:57]and people would say, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[14:58]but really it's tomorrow because they weren't Jewish,
[15:00]they didn't understand.
[15:01]And so it more clarified that I have spent a life
[15:06]living on two calendars without explicitly explaining
[15:09]that to many people.
[15:11]And so that was maybe the only difference.
[15:13]But it was so cool how you structured the book
[15:16]by each month of the Jewish calendar
[15:18]and what that meant and everything,
[15:19]all the different timelines.
[15:22]Yeah, thank you.
[15:22]So I did that because I really wanted to highlight
[15:25]that there are different ways of counting time
[15:27]and to come back to this idea of what is time
[15:29]and how do we measure it and to show
[15:32]that there are different calendars,
[15:33]different days, different ways of understanding.
[15:37]And why were you living in Israel to begin with?
[15:39]Like, why have you been moving around so much?
[15:41]We just decided to go take a sabbatical
[15:47]and just to take a year and go live there.
[15:49]So, I feel like you don't hear that as much these days.
[15:53]I don't know.
[15:54]People just like up and checking other places out.
[15:56]It's nice or friendly.
[15:58]Yeah, right?
[15:58]I don't know.
[16:00]So your next novel is called The History of Time Travel
[16:03]coming out in 2021.
[16:04]What can you tell me about that?
[16:06]Yes.
[16:07]So again, this is an intergenerational story.
[16:10]There's three generations of women and one family
[16:12]from Russia to America.
[16:14]Again, you see the theme there.
[16:15]Yeah, thank you for the show.
[16:18]In case I missed the subtle thing that, thank you.
[16:21]Thank you, Rachel.
[16:22]I appreciate it.
[16:24]And each generation invents a piece of the time machine
[16:27]and that they use at the end of the book
[16:30]to save the family.
[16:31]Ooh.
[16:32]Yeah, so it's been really fun
[16:35]and again, going back to relativity
[16:38]and Einstein in this idea of what is time.
[16:41]Is there a difference between the past and present
[16:43]and the future?
[16:44]And would you do if you could change the past?
[16:48]And does this involve a DeLorean in any way?
[16:50]I think I'm with it.
[16:53]So neat.
[16:54]So how far along are you in that process?
[16:58]So I finished the whole draft last year and sold it.
[17:02]So now I'm just going through that editing process
[17:05]and we have to decide it will come out sometime in 21,
[17:09]but not sure when.
[17:10]And all those fun details start to wrap up.
[17:14]And do you already have ideas for your book after that?
[17:17]Or are you just like, yes.
[17:19]So I mean, the crazy thing about publishing
[17:22]is how slow it is.
[17:25]And on the one hand, it's frustrating
[17:26]because I'll send 100 pages or 300 pages to my editor
[17:31]and then I have to sit and wait.
[17:33]And we're so used to, I'm so used to instant gratification.
[17:36]I should hear from her, 10 minutes or tomorrow,
[17:38]but actually writing and thinking, it takes a long time.
[17:42]And it's actually becomes a better book,
[17:44]the longer that it simmers and goes back and forth.
[17:47]And so they'll be like a month, six weeks before I hear back.
[17:51]And it's worth the wait because then
[17:53]they're really interesting comments and ideas coming back.
[17:56]And I can restructure and change.
[17:58]But during that time, like I'm not just going to sit here,
[18:01]I'm going to work on the next book.
[18:03]So yes, the next book is started,
[18:06]but is not formed enough to talk about yet,
[18:09]but it's out there.
[18:12]So how many hours a day do you sit and rig right?
[18:15]Like do you have a set?
[18:16]Do you always do it?
[18:17]Like when do you like to write?
[18:19]Do you do it right?
[18:20]Sure.
[18:21]Anyway, yeah, tell me.
[18:22]Yeah, so I love to ask writers this question to you
[18:25]because there's so many different ways writers work.
[18:30]For me, I'm pretty structured.
[18:32]And as soon as my kids are out the door,
[18:34]I sit down and start writing.
[18:35]And I usually work on my novels from about 7.30
[18:40]till like two, about two, my brain just sort of sputters out.
[18:46]And then I can switch over and I'll read or do some of,
[18:50]like I love to interview authors as well.
[18:53]Not on podcasts, but written interviews.
[18:56]And so I'll work on those or look through books
[18:59]for my next interview and that kind of thing.
[19:01]Yes, we shared this love of interviewing authors.
[19:04]What do you think it is?
[19:05]I mean, I was trying to analyze myself.
[19:06]Like what is it?
[19:07]I love so much about doing this.
[19:09]What do you, can you articulate what you love about doing it?
[19:11]I don't know if I can.
[19:12]Really happy.
[19:14]I was really hoping you would have a good answer.
[19:16]I know, because then I was going to use it.
[19:22]I guess, I mean, I just,
[19:25]there are like if you experience a situation
[19:27]you walk across the street,
[19:29]area of 10 authors walk across the street,
[19:30]you're going to write 10 different descriptions
[19:33]of walking on the street.
[19:34]And what they see and experience is also different.
[19:37]And I guess I just love that, right?
[19:39]10 different ways to read about.
[19:41]And also there are such different people.
[19:43]Like we're all a little bit,
[19:45]you know, we come from different backgrounds,
[19:47]different ideas.
[19:48]And guess it's always just fascinating
[19:51]and the personalities and the way people react to questions.
[19:57]Some authors are more closed off,
[19:58]some are more open,
[19:59]some are more open.
[20:00]patient. So I don't know. Maybe it's just a lot of stuff. So what do you think?
[20:06]Yeah, I just find it so interesting sort of how they how people come up with stories
[20:14]and how they bring their stories to life and then how they describe doing that and what their lives
[20:18]are like. And I always learn something from everybody. And I don't know. I just, I don't know,
[20:23]there's something about the magic of storytelling that makes me drawn to authors, I guess. And
[20:28]oftentimes they just tell their life story in such a nice literary way. I don't know.
[20:35]Do you, you said, you know, you don't have a podcast, although you just should do that,
[20:39]you have so much spare time. But when you interview them and it ends up in print, do you do it
[20:44]over the phone or do you send them questions and they type up their answers? Like, how do you conduct
[20:48]your interviews? Yeah. So my favorite part about the interviews is getting to talk to the author
[20:54]or like this, right? Yeah. Somebody a little bit better. So I will often send a couple of questions
[21:01]and then we'll schedule, you know, like a half hour block and then talk through some things.
[21:06]And it's just so interesting how different authors approach the industry to. Like some
[21:13]are really excited and just glad to be out there no matter what. And some are a little more,
[21:19]you know, picky about what is said around the book. And I get it because you work so hard and
[21:26]you want to make sure that your message is out there in the right way. And I sometimes really
[21:32]enjoy pushing back with, you know, pushing back and some of the things that authors like to think
[21:36]their story said, but maybe it said something else to me. And that's where it gets interesting.
[21:41]Oh, that's cool. And so if people are looking for your author interviews, where can they find them?
[21:46]LA review of books. We can find everything. All the links are on my website, of course,
[21:50]Rachelbearinbaum.com. And then I do them for LA review of books. And then Grub Street has a
[21:54]blog called Dead Darklings. And starting soon, also Tel Aviv review of books. Awesome. With all of
[22:02]your experience, what is some parting advice you can give to listeners? Writing advice, aspiring
[22:09]authors, authors who are about to be interviewed. Like, you have spoken to authors. You might
[22:16]know better than me. I think, you know, people often ask me, how do I start? Is there a book
[22:23]that I can read that will help me figure out how to write fiction? And I always just like to tell
[22:28]people just sit down and write. That's where you can start because even a really crappy, you know,
[22:35]first five pages is better than no first pages. And just starting because you can always
[22:43]erase it all and go back to it or wherever, but you just have to start. And you can't be afraid
[22:48]to put words on the page. Because I can't tell you how many terrible words I've put on the page.
[22:53]And sentence is, come out of me until I get to a good one. And I think that is one common thread
[22:59]that I've seen from every author that I've ever interviewed. You just write so many terrible
[23:05]things until you get to something that's good. Unless you're Tony Morrison, every sentence
[23:11]or she wrote every sentence beautifully. And she was sort of famous for that. And what, so all the
[23:18]books that you said, like, whatever happened with those first five or six novels that you wrote,
[23:22]are they just on the shelf, so to speak? Yeah. And I don't think they're ever coming up.
[23:27]You know, when I just got out of college, I wrote this whole book with a woman who had no name
[23:36]because I was exploring this idea of identity and, you know, feminism. And if you name a woman
[23:42]or you name, you know, beauty, is it actually beautiful? Or is it, you know, something a commodity?
[23:48]Is it something you want? And I don't know, you know, steeped in all these, you know, feminist
[23:55]class and women studies classes that I took in college. And I love the idea still, but I don't
[24:01]think anyone ever actually wants to read that book. So I guess there's any, you know. Oh my gosh.
[24:10]What's the best advice you've ever heard from authors? I don't know this one. Best advice.
[24:16]So I'm trying now to finish up a novel of my own. I hate to even say that aloud because I might
[24:22]never do it, but someone came on and I have to go look through my notes to remember who said this,
[24:27]but they said, just open the document every day. Just open the document. There's something you can do.
[24:33]If you don't just, you can edit, you can reread. You can just get in the document and like
[24:39]spend maybe it was California and spend time in the document. And that will help. And I keep like
[24:45]putting it off. And in my back on my head, you know, I'm like, oh, I'll just like, you know,
[24:50]I should really read these next five books or I should do, you know, plan this gymnastics class
[24:54]for my daughter. I don't know, whatever it is that fills all my time every day. And in the back of
[24:58]my head, I just keep hearing like, just open the document. Just like, look, even if I look at it,
[25:03]it will inspire something. But I don't know. I don't really take that advice. And I'm not, I don't know.
[25:09]But I liked that advice. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway. Well, thank you for sharing
[25:16]your time and your expertise and all the rest of it. And I hope one of these days we get to
[25:21]hang out in person. And, but thanks for, thanks for all the time. Thank you so much. This is so much
[25:27]fun. I think you are building great things. I'm a huge fan. Oh, thanks. Thank you. Thank you.
[25:31]Thank you. Thanks. All right. Take care. Thanks. I'll be you too. Bye. Bye.
[25:39]Thanks for listening to Momstone Have Time to Read Books, the award-winning podcast.
[25:43]Today's episode of Momstone Have Time to Read Books was sponsored by pediatrician in your pocket
[25:48]by Dr. Jennifer Tractenberg, Dr. Dash Jen.com and your code PIP20 for 20% off of these
[25:58]can't miss modules that will make your parenting life so much easier. You can follow me on
[26:02]Instagram at momstonehavetime to read books. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[26:08]for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[26:13]intro and out trim music. Thanks for listening. You can always email me at zibiadzibiowans.com.