Rachel Bertsche, THE KIDS ARE IN BED
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[0:27]We found time.com, my new online magazine.
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[0:40]All the essays on We Found Time are written by authors who have been on this podcast already.
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[1:37]I'm here today with Rachel Burched, B-E-R-T-S-C-H-E,
[1:42]who is the best-selling author of M-W-F,
[1:45]Seeking B-F-F, my year-long search for a new best friend,
[1:48]also Jennifer Gwyneth and me, the pursuit of happiness,
[1:51]one celebrity at a time, and now her latest book,
[1:54]which I am obsessed with, called The Kids Are in Bed,
[1:57]Finding Time for Yourself in the Chaos of Parenting.
[2:00]She is also a journalist and editor whose work has appeared in The New York Times,
[2:04]Parents, Marie Claire, Teen Vogue, Seventeen Self,
[2:07]Cosmopolitan Women's Health, New York, and more.
[2:09]A former producer for Oprah.com and an editor at O The Oprah Magazine,
[2:13]she lives in Chicago with her family.
[2:15]So welcome, Rachel. Thanks so much for coming on, Mom.
[2:17]So I have time to read books.
[2:19]Thank you for having me.
[2:20]I'm excited.
[2:21]I was just telling you as we started chatting over Skype.
[2:23]This book is like the perfect book for my podcast and me,
[2:28]and I feel like I almost wish I had written it myself.
[2:31]It's like the perfect, exactly what I'm trying to do with my podcast.
[2:35]It's like amazing.
[2:36]Thank you.
[2:37]Yes, I know.
[2:38]When I learned of your podcast, I sort of was like,
[2:40]oh my god, she's my far away spirit sister.
[2:44]We need to connect.
[2:46]Exactly.
[2:47]This is the best part about connecting with other authors and people.
[2:52]It's just meeting people who you might not have met who have so many similar thoughts and feelings
[2:57]and goals and how else would we have found each other?
[3:00]You're in Chicago and I'm here and it's just that.
[3:04]That's my favorite thing about writing books is like, I think most of the books that I write
[3:08]often are sort of about just the things that are on my mind that I'm like,
[3:10]I can't be the only one thinking about this.
[3:13]And when they come out and I hear from people who are like,
[3:15]oh, I thought it was crazy or oh my god, you're like totally speaking to me,
[3:18]that is very rewarding.
[3:22]I agree.
[3:23]Okay, so the kids are in bed is the title of your book, finding time for yourself and the chaos
[3:28]of parenting.
[3:29]So tell me a little more.
[3:31]Tell listeners what this book is about and then tell me how you decided to start this book.
[3:35]Yeah, so this book is about sort of how parents use our time when we aren't physically parenting
[3:40]or working.
[3:41]So it looks at sort of how our time use has changed over the years and also some of the myths
[3:45]about how we use our time or how or the time we do or don't have.
[3:49]And then it looks at the three areas of our life that kind of take the biggest hit when
[3:53]we have kids.
[3:54]So self-care, romantic relationships and friendships and tries to kind of look at ways we can
[4:00]create time, how we can use time, but also just sort of talks to parents at large about
[4:05]kind of how, why it all feels like we don't have time to do anything.
[4:10]So you, did you decide at the beginning to launch your study of time spending habits?
[4:15]Was that part of the original idea?
[4:17]No, you know, the book came actually the kind of kernel of the idea started.
[4:22]So I was working a full-time day job at a tech startup.
[4:26]So I was like working all day.
[4:27]I would rush home to relieve our nanny.
[4:30]And so instead of having my kids and put them to bed and then I would get back to work
[4:33]because my office day was meetings all day.
[4:35]So I had to do the actual work from let's say, you know, set in at that point my kids went
[4:40]to bed a little earlier to nine.
[4:42]And then I was also working on a book, not this one.
[4:45]And so I would then switch to book writing and then I was working until 11 or so.
[4:50]And then literally falling asleep at the computer sometimes.
[4:53]And I was on the phone with my best oldest friend.
[4:56]And she was like, when do you have time to watch TV when I told her this?
[5:00]And people always laugh when I say that.
[5:02]But the reality is like, I love to watch TV.
[5:04]It's like the thing I do for just comfort and relaxation and refreshing.
[5:09]And so what you really meant in that moment, I think was like, when do you take care of yourself?
[5:12]When do you do anything other than work?
[5:14]And it got me thinking about that question.
[5:16]I'm like, when do I do that?
[5:17]And I talk to all these friends who all have kids, but have different lives and different jobs
[5:21]and some don't work in an office and do, but everyone feels that way.
[5:24]Like who have the time?
[5:25]That's why I wanted to dig in that way.
[5:27]And so it started more kind of in a memoir place.
[5:30]And then I backed up into like, how do we make this?
[5:33]Not just my story, but kind of everyone's story.
[5:36]And that's when I decided to do kind of the bigger research of surveying parents.
[5:39]I love how you found that 15% of parents are these role models.
[5:43]Tell me what it means to be a role model in your study.
[5:46]Yeah.
[5:46]So our study was a 500 parents nationwide.
[5:49]And we asked them all these questions about how they used their time.
[5:52]And there were 15% of parents, as you say, we call them role models because they felt great
[5:56]about how they used their free time.
[5:58]You know, the rest of the parents had all these regrets or concerns
[6:01]with why they couldn't use their time well.
[6:02]But 15% said like, not me, I feel great about it.
[6:05]And there were three things that made those people different.
[6:08]They prioritize friendship.
[6:11]They prioritize extra, or I should say they prioritize time with friends.
[6:14]They prioritize exercise and they deprioritize time online.
[6:18]So these people sort of, it's hard, it's impossible really right now for us to say
[6:23]from our study if it's because they did those things, they felt better about their time,
[6:27]or they're people who felt better about their time.
[6:28]So they were better filling those things in.
[6:31]But there's kind of the relationship is undeniable.
[6:35]If you are doing people who are doing those things feel better.
[6:38]And similarly, people who are not, you know, the first thing they do is
[6:41]and pick up their phone and start scrolling seem to feel better about their time also.
[6:45]Good advice.
[6:46]This is good an inspiration.
[6:48]But I don't know that I am a role model yet, but I admire them.
[6:52]I am not a role model either and I admire them too.
[6:56]I want to become one.
[6:57]But another thing you talked about in the study was avoiding contaminated time,
[7:01]especially guilt, which this is like one of the best parts of the book for me.
[7:05]So you cited that 71% of parents agree or strongly agree that their free time didn't feel free
[7:11]because they were still thinking about everything they could or should be doing,
[7:14]which I completely relate to.
[7:16]So how, what are we supposed to do about contaminated time?
[7:20]What do you think?
[7:21]Well, I talk about in my book something called Pockets of Indulgence.
[7:24]And to me, that's sort of my solution or my suggestion.
[7:28]Because yes, if we are, you know, I always say like, you're lying on the massage table
[7:32]and you're thinking about all the emails you need to return
[7:34]and the birthday present you need to buy and the diapers you need to order,
[7:37]then that time doesn't really feel that relaxing.
[7:39]Even if you're doing sort of the ultimate relaxing activity.
[7:42]And I think when people say like, oh, you should just take me time.
[7:45]It can feel so nebulous and endless and there's dishes in the sink waiting for you,
[7:48]and it can feel sort of intimidating so we don't do it.
[7:52]I talked with my book about what I call Pockets of Indulgence,
[7:54]which are literally pockets of time with the beginning and an end.
[7:57]I think the end part is sort of the important part where you can really lean
[8:00]into doing something for yourself.
[8:02]And that doesn't have to be two hours, it can be 20 minutes.
[8:04]But I was talking to a friend about it once and she felt she was like,
[8:07]I like that there's an end because then I'm like, okay,
[8:09]I can get back to all the things I want to be doing.
[8:11]I feel like I should be doing.
[8:13]We have all this guilt and we feel put all this pressure on ourselves as parents
[8:16]and moms to get everything done for everyone else.
[8:19]And so it feels selfish, unfortunately, to kind of take time for ourselves.
[8:23]And it shouldn't, but you know, that's the reality.
[8:26]So I like the idea of Pockets of Indulgence because then I say, you know,
[8:29]the dishes will be there.
[8:30]You can get back to it in 20 minutes.
[8:32]You can tell yourself like, I'm going to do that.
[8:33]So you can really give yourself permission to like lean into the time
[8:36]that you are giving yourself to wash a show or read a book or do a crossword puzzle.
[8:41]Those are my, my things.
[8:43]And then you know, in the best case scenario, I say, you might kind of lose yourself
[8:46]in that activity and maybe you go over your window and then like the dishes will still be there.
[8:50]Everything's going to be fine.
[8:52]But I think if you kind of understand that you're not ignoring all the,
[8:56]the must-dos and just really kind of taking the time that you're whatever amount of time
[9:00]that you can allow yourself and enjoy it, perhaps you can get rid of a little bit of that
[9:04]contamination.
[9:05]And I like that it's 20 minutes because it's not even that long.
[9:10]And I've been trying to since I read your book and before this podcast, I've been trying in
[9:14]like little bits and bitsy pieces of my life to do that.
[9:18]So the other day I met a girlfriend for coffee and it wasn't even 30 minutes we were together.
[9:22]And it probably took us longer to plan it, but both of us were really busy
[9:25]and we just had a chance to like sit down and give each other a hug and remind each other
[9:29]that we love each other.
[9:30]And that no matter what was going on, like we just had that like connection that moment.
[9:35]And I didn't need, you know, in my head, I'm like, oh coffee with a friend,
[9:38]so we like an hour and a half.
[9:39]Right.
[9:40]Like how can I treat myself to that right now?
[9:42]Right.
[9:42]Yeah, exactly.
[9:43]I think 20 minutes is something of a magic number.
[9:45]You can get a lot of refreshment.
[9:47]I mean, you know, exercise experts say you can get a grade workout in 20 minutes.
[9:51]You can take a power and have in 20 minutes.
[9:52]You can get a lot of, you know, good work done in 20 minutes.
[9:55]So one of the things we weren't, we heard from parents and the survey was that sort of the big
[10:00]Yes, challenge, using a free time in a way that felt good,
[10:02]was that their chunks of free time were too short.
[10:04]And so I think reframing your kind of idea
[10:07]of what free time looks like,
[10:08]because if we wait for two hours or eight in an hour,
[10:10]sometimes that just doesn't come up.
[10:12]But 20 minutes, if you're kind of ready for it,
[10:15]can pop up unexpectedly also.
[10:16]And I think, as you say, kind of grabbing that time
[10:19]when suddenly you've dropped some one kid at a birthday party,
[10:21]but the other one doesn't need to be picked up from dance.
[10:23]And you're like, oh my God, I have 20 minutes.
[10:25]If you're not sort of quote unquote prepared for that time,
[10:28]it can be really easy to feel like you wasted it.
[10:31]I know, personally, I often think of the phone
[10:34]and just kind of scroll social media,
[10:36]which is great if you enjoy doing math,
[10:38]but if you feel like it's a waste of time,
[10:39]then you're going to feel regretful about your time.
[10:42]Or I spend that time staring at a wall thinking,
[10:44]but I bet I could be doing something good with this time.
[10:47]And I can't think of what to do.
[10:49]So I even have a little list on my phone
[10:51]of here are things I can do in 30, or 20 minutes,
[10:54]so that the decision for T, I don't
[10:57]waste the time thinking about what to do with the time.
[10:59]One time I was on a plane, and I like by myself
[11:02]the first time that I didn't have my kids
[11:04]and like forever, this was years ago.
[11:06]And I remember sitting there being like,
[11:07]I don't even know what to do.
[11:08]Like, should I watch a movie?
[11:10]Should I read?
[11:10]Should I, like, I don't know how am I going to use these
[11:12]like three hours to the best of my,
[11:14]but what should I do?
[11:14]And I just like sat there, I guess I was like,
[11:17]how can I squeeze all this in the best way?
[11:19]And then you end up doing nothing, you know?
[11:21]Yeah, that's exactly right.
[11:22]I hear that from so many parents,
[11:23]and I experience that myself.
[11:25]Like the, I think once you have kids this pressure,
[11:28]your pre-time feels so extra precious
[11:30]that the pressure to use it like quote unquote well
[11:32]and or it's productively is so high.
[11:35]And I feel like people,
[11:36]I hear from people all the time who say, you know,
[11:38]the pressure to like make the right choice
[11:40]of how to use my time is so overwhelming
[11:42]that I end up doing nothing.
[11:43]And just the mental space that guilt takes up,
[11:46]which you address in the book.
[11:47]I mean, I have a girlfriend who I had coffee with
[11:49]about a year ago, and I was like, how are you doing?
[11:52]And she's like, well, I'm good.
[11:53]I've decided to stop feeling guilty.
[11:54]And I was like, what do you mean?
[11:56]She's like, I just gave it up.
[11:57]I decided not to do it anymore.
[11:58]And now I feel great.
[11:59]I was like, how did you do that?
[12:01]And she meant to leave you.
[12:03]Yeah, and she has stayed that way since.
[12:05]She's like a working mom, she commutes, all this stuff.
[12:07]And she's like, my kids are lucky to have me
[12:09]and whatever time they get is great.
[12:11]And they have great lives.
[12:12]And I'm just gonna keep doing it that way.
[12:14]And she's never so much happier.
[12:15]And she's right.
[12:16]I mean, the research really does bear that out
[12:18]that like we are doing enough for our kids.
[12:21]We're even full-time working mothers
[12:24]are spending more time with our kids now
[12:25]than they did in the 60s.
[12:27]So I think we have this idea that this world
[12:29]of intensive parenting, we all have so much guilt
[12:31]that we should be doing more and more more for our kids.
[12:34]But the reality is that like your friend's bed,
[12:36]like we're doing enough and they're lucky to have us.
[12:38]That's true.
[12:39]Yeah, we can let go of the guilt.
[12:41]I think everyone, et cetera.
[12:43]You'd be your sentence.
[12:43]I was gonna say, get a try.
[12:47]You also talk about the paradox
[12:49]of how much free time parents have
[12:50]matters far less than how much they feel they have.
[12:53]Cause we might actually have more time.
[12:56]But we don't feel any sort of calmness
[12:58]or ability to maximize it.
[13:01]And I don't, what do you think we should do about that?
[13:03]Yeah, I think, you know, it's like you said before
[13:05]that contaminated time.
[13:06]We all feel like we don't have time.
[13:09]And you know, it's really interesting cause like you say,
[13:11]there's all this kind of American time use data
[13:14]about how much quote unquote leisure time people have.
[13:17]And you know, what they find is that even like
[13:21]the most time strapped people, which are according
[13:24]to this study, I think working mothers of kids under six,
[13:28]have like three hours of leisure time a day.
[13:31]Which when you say that, I mean, it sounds ridiculous.
[13:33]And when I mentioned that to parents
[13:35]that usually laugh or even like we get defensive
[13:37]cause we feel like, no, I don't have that.
[13:40]And I want to show that I'm doing so much.
[13:42]But if you feel like a person who has time, you know,
[13:45]it's so much as you say about sort of
[13:47]how you frame it.
[13:48]If you're someone who you read at one poem a day,
[13:51]suddenly you think of yourself as a person who reads poetry.
[13:54]And if you're a person who reads poetry,
[13:55]you must have some time in your life.
[13:57]Versus, you know, like I said, if you're out of massage table
[13:59]but you're worrying all the time,
[14:01]then you're going to feel like someone
[14:02]who doesn't have any time to yourself.
[14:04]So a lot of it is sort of using whatever small amounts
[14:07]of time you have in a way.
[14:09]And you know, I want to stress that I'm not saying
[14:11]in a way that's productive, but more in a way
[14:13]that feels good, you know, it might be watching a TV show
[14:16]or looking at the window.
[14:17]It doesn't have to be exercising
[14:19]or, you know, getting worked on or doing a big project.
[14:22]I think we live in this kind of world of,
[14:24]we've put so much emphasis on self improvement
[14:26]and productivity that we feel guilty
[14:29]of even at the time we use that we have for ourselves.
[14:32]We don't use in the quote unquote right way.
[14:34]Totally.
[14:35]Yeah.
[14:36]I feel like we're just also hard on ourselves.
[14:37]It's like, it's like this constant sort of punishing, you know?
[14:41]Yeah.
[14:42]Like hierarchy of how we use our time.
[14:44]You know, I feel less guilty saying to my family,
[14:48]like, I'm going to go work out on the Saturday.
[14:50]But if I said like, I'm just going to go see a movie,
[14:52]you know, I would feel really guilty.
[14:54]But the time away from them, it's still the same, you know,
[14:57]two hours or whatever, it just depends
[14:59]but it's different what I'm doing.
[15:01]But, you know, certain things feel more, you know,
[15:04]valuable or worthwhile than others.
[15:06]So there's a lot of guilt and mental stuff
[15:08]wrapped up in here.
[15:10]And yet this is really life at the end of the day.
[15:13]I mean, like, this is it.
[15:14]Like, how we use our time is who we end up being.
[15:17]And this is like, sometimes in my head,
[15:19]I'm like, well, I'll just wait till my kids are older or whatever.
[15:22]But now I have kids with like, I have seven and a half years
[15:24]between my oldest and my youngest.
[15:26]And by the time I oldest close to college,
[15:27]like, I'm going to be like a senior citizen basically.
[15:30]So I can't keep like putting my life on pause
[15:33]until the kids are older.
[15:34]Like this is most of my life.
[15:37]So if we miss it, we don't get a chance to get it back.
[15:40]And that to sound like dire.
[15:41]But there has to be a way and more workable strategy
[15:45]to getting through it all in a good way.
[15:47]Yeah.
[15:47]And I think also, you know, I always appeal to people
[15:50]when we talk about letting go of the guilt.
[15:51]But also, this is your kids' lives.
[15:54]And this is what you want to show them.
[15:55]You know, one thing, you know, studies show that what kids want
[15:58]is not actually more time with their parents,
[16:01]but they want is less stressed parents.
[16:02]So we can take small bits of time to kind of feel better.
[16:05]We're kind of serving everyone.
[16:07]And sometimes, you know, I know mothers we don't want to.
[16:10]Even when we know better, it's hard to really believe,
[16:13]like, oh, I can actually do something for myself.
[16:15]But maybe if you know, it's also for your kids.
[16:17]I mean, I have a daughter who I really want to see me doing
[16:21]things for myself because I want her to learn that, you know,
[16:24]she can take care of herself and that she's important.
[16:26]And if she decides to have kids one day,
[16:28]I want her to feel like she's allowed to take some time
[16:30]for herself.
[16:30]So sometimes when I've gotten the guilt spiral, you know,
[16:35]even me, you know, I'll say to my husband, like,
[16:36]I don't know, I haven't been to kids.
[16:38]And he's like, you know, there's a book about that.
[16:39]But I remind myself, you know, and I say to my daughter,
[16:43]like, I am going to book lab.
[16:45]It's, you know, I love I get to see them die friends once a month.
[16:48]And it's really important to me.
[16:48]And I try to kind of model that for her because I think,
[16:52]especially for girls, it's important that they see that.
[16:55]And also just keeping a sense of humor the way you just did
[16:59]with your husband.
[17:00]I mean, that's also important is like not to take it so seriously,
[17:04]which is hard when we're all like sleep deprived and stressed
[17:08]and you know, whatever.
[17:08]But I don't know, maintaining some.
[17:10]Yeah, the kids are going to be OK and we're going to be OK.
[17:13]And I think, you know, I'm not saying that every single day,
[17:15]you should be able to fit in your kids and your work and time
[17:18]for yourself and time for your spouse and time for your friends.
[17:22]I mean, there's only so many hours in the day, obviously.
[17:24]But you know, if we can fit one thing in here and there,
[17:27]I actually think the return on investment is really big.
[17:30]I'm starting this content, say, which I think I already
[17:33]told you about, which launches on Mother's Day,
[17:35]which is help my goal is to help moms with exactly this,
[17:38]like seeing what they could do if they did spend the time
[17:41]on these things.
[17:41]So I'm going about it, like moms don't have time to have sex.
[17:45]Moms don't have time to work out.
[17:47]Moms don't have time to, and I'm getting personal essays
[17:50]from people in the podcast like you.
[17:52]And my whole goal is like the goal of your book.
[17:54]Like, well, what happens when we do take the time out to go running
[17:58]or what happens when, you know, we do, I don't know,
[18:02]write that book, we always wanted to write or something.
[18:04]Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[18:05]And I think seeing how other people do it or make it work
[18:09]or kind of the creative ways they do things is always really helpful.
[18:13]I mean, for me, I'm a sucker for all of those essays
[18:16]and kind of schedules of people, you know,
[18:18]different sites post about sort of how other people get it done.
[18:22]Speaking of how people get things done,
[18:24]tell me about how you got this book done.
[18:25]How long did this book take you to write, win,
[18:28]and where did you write it?
[18:29]Did you do it like your last book,
[18:30]where you did it after a long day at work?
[18:32]Yeah, I got this book done at night and a weekend.
[18:36]But, you know, I switched after I was at that tech startup,
[18:39]I switched jobs to one that had a more reasonable kind of work-life balance
[18:44]so that I could spend time on the writing on the side.
[18:48]And I really, you know, I love doing that.
[18:51]But definitely it was something I had to fit in.
[18:54]Sometimes, you know, literally sitting outside my daughter's bedroom
[18:57]after trying to put her to sleep.
[18:58]And she didn't want to go to sleep.
[18:59]And my husband was traveling for work.
[19:01]You know, I'm lucky that some weekends I could say to my husband,
[19:04]like, okay, go to the park.
[19:06]I'm going to stay here.
[19:06]I have to get, you know, X amount of board's done.
[19:09]I do kind of keep myself on a schedule where I say like,
[19:13]I need to do 3,000 words a week or something.
[19:15]Because otherwise, I'm just the kind of person who won't get it done.
[19:18]So I'm pretty, like, strict about that.
[19:21]But, you know, you had asked me,
[19:24]prior, you know, did that, did writing the book count as my quote-unquote
[19:27]pockets of indulgence.
[19:28]And I would say, no, you know, I love writing.
[19:32]But I think work is still work.
[19:33]And that's different than time for yourself.
[19:36]And I really, like I said, I love writing.
[19:38]But it was kind of thing like I had to get it done.
[19:39]I had a, you know, so it didn't feel like that
[19:43]relaxing feeling of when you, you know,
[19:45]sink into a novel or something like that.
[19:47]How much time did you have to write the book?
[19:49]I had about a year, but I probably, you know,
[19:52]that involved some outlining and some kind of back and forth
[19:56]my editor to the actual writing process was probably more.
[20:00]like six months, which is why I'm one of those people
[20:03]who is better at like with a tight deadline
[20:06]and with like clear kind of guidelines.
[20:08]So I always email my editor when I'm starting a book
[20:11]and I'm like, not just, I don't just want the due date
[20:13]but let's talk about like when part one is due
[20:14]when part two is due so I can make sure
[20:16]that I don't find myself the night before the book
[20:18]is due trying to write 80,000 words.
[20:21]Yeah.
[20:21]Well, overwhelming.
[20:23]I am, I am a person who will start something
[20:25]the night before it's due if I don't kind of got it.
[20:28]Yeah, so, but you know, I know myself.
[20:31]So I put, I put guardrails in life.
[20:33]Do you already know what your next book is gonna be?
[20:35]This is, so this is your third book.
[20:37]This is my third book.
[20:38]I don't know what my next book is gonna be.
[20:40]I'm still sort of processing this one
[20:42]and doing some public, we'll say stuff.
[20:45]But I, and I also do a lot of book collaboration
[20:47]working with other authors who are trying,
[20:49]who are writing books and helping them kind of get their
[20:51]books out in the world.
[20:52]So I'm doing some of that and I really love that work as well.
[20:56]So I don't know, I'm sort of in that place right now
[20:58]where I'm like, I don't know what I'm waiting to see
[21:00]what's gonna happen next, which is
[21:02]both exciting and terrifying, but trying to be centered
[21:07]about it that might successfully.
[21:10]I also wanted to go back between feeling regretful
[21:14]about leisure time and feeling refreshed by leisure time.
[21:17]Yeah, this sort of details with everything else
[21:19]that we had just discussed, but I love that differentiation
[21:21]and keeping that particular, you know,
[21:24]by vacation in mind.
[21:26]Can you talk about that for a sec?
[21:27]Yeah, of course.
[21:28]I think, you know, a lot of us, myself included,
[21:30]I mentioned the phone, but there are a lot of things
[21:32]that we do with our time because, you know,
[21:36]after we put our kids to bed, we're all kind of tired
[21:39]and depleted and we spend all day making so many decisions
[21:41]for other people and for ourselves that I think sometimes
[21:44]we just can't figure out kind of how to spend the time.
[21:48]So we either, you know, I sometimes find myself
[21:51]just like moving water bottles from one shelf
[21:53]to the next for 20 minutes and then I'm like,
[21:55]what just happened?
[21:55]I'm tired.
[21:56]I'm just gonna go to bed.
[21:57]I mean, what did I just do?
[21:59]Or rereading emails that I've already sent
[22:02]or like looking online for things that I'm not gonna buy.
[22:05]Just like uses of time or like ruminating on
[22:08]candidates or how we're gonna figure out
[22:10]that summer schedule for the whole family,
[22:12]even though the candidates aren't available yet,
[22:13]but it doesn't even, I can't even actually solve the problem.
[22:16]You know, there's so many things that we do
[22:17]with our time that don't feel great.
[22:19]And then suddenly it's bedtime and I'm thinking to myself,
[22:23]like what did I just do?
[22:24]And I feel, I do.
[22:25]I feel really regretful and sometimes even resentful
[22:27]that I have, you know, wasted this time
[22:30]where I don't have this time to myself anymore.
[22:32]And now I'm, you know, I'm like, okay,
[22:34]I guess I have to wait for the same time tomorrow
[22:36]to try to do better.
[22:37]But if you use that same time to do things that you enjoy,
[22:40]as I said before, that return on investment.
[22:42]I mean, you don't need a ton of time.
[22:44]And so if you pick up a phone and call a friend
[22:47]and some of that stuff, I think calling a friend
[22:49]specifically can feel sort of intimidating.
[22:50]Like you said about coffee as a friend,
[22:52]like it feels like it's gonna be the big endeavor.
[22:54]And sometimes when calling friends,
[22:56]I feel like that always sounds sort of intimidating
[22:58]to us these days.
[22:59]And whenever I do it, I hang off and I'm like,
[23:01]oh my God, that was so great.
[23:03]Even if it's just a short call, just to connect with someone.
[23:06]And I feel totally refreshed.
[23:07]And I'm like, okay, you know, I had a weekend recently
[23:10]where I had to go run and get a haircut.
[23:12]And I had like 30 minutes before I had to meet my family.
[23:16]And so I had a book with me and I went and got a sandwich
[23:19]and read a chapter of a novel.
[23:20]And then by the time I came home,
[23:22]my kids were like, can we make cupcakes?
[23:24]Oh my God, I want to do this.
[23:25]And I was like, okay, whereas had I not done that,
[23:28]I know I would have, I was at that place at that time
[23:31]on a Sunday afternoon where I was like,
[23:33]no, like just go over there, play board game,
[23:36]like completely alone.
[23:38]So I think that time can really refresh us
[23:41]and make us happier and also help us kind of be more present
[23:45]and enjoy the time with our family more frankly.
[23:48]So true.
[23:49]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[23:51]My advice for aspiring authors,
[23:53]I always say like, stop telling people
[23:55]about how you have this great idea for a book
[23:57]and just sit down and start writing that book.
[24:00]I feel like I did that for a really long time with my first book.
[24:03]And I just, I hear from people all the time
[24:05]who say that to me, you know,
[24:06]oh, I have an idea for a book.
[24:07]And I was like, that's awesome.
[24:08]And you should write it.
[24:09]You know, I think everyone can do it.
[24:12]The part, the part is, I mean,
[24:14]writing is hard, of course.
[24:15]But if you have an idea, you know,
[24:18]the thing that kind of separates the people who do it
[24:20]from who don't do it is really just the sitting down
[24:23]and getting, you know, opening the computer and writing.
[24:26]And I remember when I wanted to start my first book,
[24:29]I'd been thinking about it for so long.
[24:30]And one day I was just like, okay,
[24:32]I'm just gonna like watch all the TV
[24:34]and finish the internet.
[24:35]And then I'm just gonna have nothing left to do.
[24:36]So I'm gonna have no choice.
[24:38]And I just sat down and started writing.
[24:39]And I think sometimes it really is just kind of forcing your butt
[24:43]into chair.
[24:44]Well, thank you so much for sharing your limited time
[24:47]with me to be on this podcast.
[24:49]So thank you so much.
[24:52]Thanks, Rachel.
[24:53]That was awesome.
[24:54]You've been listening to moms
[24:55]and have time to read books with Zibi Owens.
[24:57]Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter
[24:59]at zibiowans.com to get more updates about episodes like these
[25:03]and also lots of live events.
[25:05]Thanks so much for listening today.
[25:07]Again, please go check out wefoundtime.com.
[25:10]For this week's new five essays from authors who have been in the podcast.
[25:16]And also go to goldbelly.com and order some ninnies, treats,
[25:21]crumb kicks.
[25:21]They are so good and you will not regret it
[25:24]although your clothes might be a little tight next week.
[25:26]I hope you all have a great week.
[25:29]But bye, thanks.
[25:30]You can follow me on Instagram at moms don't have time to read books.
[25:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[25:38]And thank you to Morningmoon Productions
[25:39]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.
[25:42]Thanks for listening.
[25:43]You could always email me at zibiowans.com.