Mary Katherine Backstrom, MOM BABBLE
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:11]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening to my podcast.
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[1:05]these two adorable tank tops and not tank tops. Well, the kind word the sleeves are cut off,
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[1:15]and I love supporting women-owned brands like this. So go check out Unsweetened NYC. I could not
[1:22]stop laughing when Mary Catherine Baxter and I did our podcast. It was late on a Friday
[1:28]afternoon slash evening during the quarantine, and we were both a little bit giddy, and I kept
[1:32]getting interrupted by my kids, and she thought there was some sort of dinosaur intruder in her
[1:37]house, and it was very informal, and I almost decided to cut all of it, and then I said,
[1:40]you know what? This is what life was like that day, and it's fitting because she is the founder,
[1:46]viral blogger, an essayist, and personality behind mom babble, a growing community of about half a
[1:52]million followers. Her social media pages have more than 80 million views, and MK, as she goes
[1:58]by, has been featured on the Ellen DeGeneres Show, and awarded the Today Show Iris Award.
[2:02]Her latest book is called mom babble. MK is married to her college sweetheart and they currently
[2:08]reside in Florida with their son and daughter. Welcome MK, thanks for coming on mom's time to read
[2:15]books, and what an aptly named title it is right now. Totally, right? Oh my gosh. I mean, I've
[2:21]always tried to like struggle to make time, but oh my gosh, like right now in the middle of all of
[2:26]this crazy. Yeah, we're talking April 17th mid pandemic craziness. I don't know, in New York, they just
[2:33]said a whole nother month of a whole nother month of what do you want to do? Well, let's see,
[2:39]we're in the COVID crisis. So I guess that this is like in the files later, and people are listening
[2:44]to your season. We are smack dab in the middle of it, right? Yeah, exactly. So we're like on day,
[2:50]depending on what state you're in, I feel like we're on day 30, day 50, it doesn't day 190.
[2:55]Yeah. Wherever your captain's log, maybe. So can you please tell listeners what your
[3:02]book mom babble, the messy truth about motherhood is about. Okay, it is about mom babble,
[3:09]the messy truth about motherhood is basically a chicken soup for the soul style book. It is
[3:14]just a cross section of every, the good, the bad, the beautiful parenting. The book was written
[3:21]in the trenches of New Parenthood for me. When I was honestly, I was struggling with postpartum
[3:26]depression when I started the blog, which was actually titled mom babble. I had been a blogger for
[3:30]about five years. And so the book covers the first five years of my parenting journey. So I guess
[3:36]I had a lot left to learn. But a lot of life was lived in that five years of time. And I think what
[3:43]it covers is just that like the new phase of parenting. And that coming into oneself as you start
[3:50]that, you know, but yes, I know I was laughing because as you were asking me this question,
[3:54]your daughter was sneaking in from the background. And it was just, you know, she's in ninja.
[3:57]Is that her? That was a question. Yeah. So I was waiting at your daughter.
[4:00]I thought you were waving at somebody like on your screen. And my house. Yeah. And now she was behind
[4:05]the chair. And I was waiting. Maybe she's not even wearing any pants. That's okay. She's like
[4:11]handing in in her underpants. Okay. Well, who needs pants? Have I now proved my stripes that I am
[4:17]a mother? I'm impressed. And I'm just really relieved that, you know, without with my unbrushed hair
[4:22]and your pencils daughter that this is the style that we're going with for this interview.
[4:28]Okay. We will get it. No, that's perfect. I am in my zone now. I'm in my panthers. I see your
[4:34]play dough. I feel you. I'm so comfy. But that's it. That is what we are, what I am just now
[4:40]seeing in your house is exactly what I cover in this book. And I honestly, I didn't want it
[4:44]to be too serious. I didn't want it to be a prescriptive book. I wanted it to honestly be like a
[4:48]conversation between two parents from one mother to another, like a casual conversation on the couch.
[4:53]My entire goal was just to make parents feel a little less alone. Like I repeat a lot,
[4:58]sometimes that I struggle with postpartum depression. But that's really where all of my writing
[5:02]career was born from. I had a very hard time leaving my house when I had my first son. And
[5:07]I'm just the anxiety was very paralyzing. And I found the majority of my supportive community
[5:11]online. And so being able to share just very normal experiences of parenting through stories helped me
[5:19]feel less alone. And being able to write those and then share those with other parents has just been
[5:25]a really gratifying experience for me. And the feedback that I get from other parents is just
[5:31]awesome as well. I love hearing people say, oh my gosh, I thought that I was alone in that.
[5:35]You know, and it always cracks me up because I will share the craziest freaking story. Like
[5:39]I will be like, oh, you know, this one time when my son wrapped my dress around his head and
[5:44]my entire butt was exposed to Starbucks. And you know, he looks like a lollipop. And you think
[5:49]you're alone sharing these stories. You're like, I can't believe this happened. And then
[5:53]another parent will be like, oh, yeah, really that happened to you too. I love it because you
[5:59]think that no matter how crazy it gets, you throw a story out there and another parents out there
[6:02]to match you. They're like, oh, no, you thought you were alone. Like, baby, let me tell you.
[6:08]They've always got one for you. That is so great. I feel like when my kids were little, I did not
[6:13]rely, I wasn't even on social media. And I feel like that was a huge loss. I think it would have
[6:17]been a lot easier for me had I had that community to reach out to in some ways. Yes, you're good.
[6:25]Let her, let her. Hey, oh, this is my son. Okay.
[6:31]Sure. See, they can do you too. Sure. Hey, whatever you want. But can I do my podcast? Can you close
[6:38]the door? Close the door? I know. I have some really good YouTube channels. We recommend
[6:45]we like Jake the jigger. Jake the jigger is pretty awesome. So I don't usually even get
[6:49]interrupted when I do podcasts because I'm like, I'm doing a podcast, but they don't even care.
[6:54]You want on motherhood on the messy truth of motherhood. Is this not perfect? I feel like it is
[6:59]anyway. Yes. If it was ever going to have it, I'm glad it was your deficit.
[7:03]I feel good about it. You know, the only reason that my kids are with Daddy right now. So,
[7:08]you know, otherwise they would be in my lap or like looking my ears. I promise we've been
[7:14]using all kinds of interesting, you know, bribery to get them away while I'm working. And then
[7:18]sometimes just doesn't, it doesn't work. Yeah. No, no matter what movie I put on. Suddenly,
[7:24]they hate it. You know, I feel like there's a dinosaur in my house. Like, honestly, my, my,
[7:28]the ground in my house is shaking and I don't know what that means. So we might actually have a
[7:32]visitor here in a moment. We'll see. Okay. Great. I can be a tourist wreck that might be a husband
[7:38]or a child. We'll just, we'll see if I, if I, if I hear it. So when we did our Instagram live,
[7:44]you mentioned that you had written this book and sold it to a small publisher and you were happy
[7:49]and you just wanted to give all the proceeds. You made a deal that you would give all your proceeds
[7:54]to the mighty acorn. The mighty acorn. And now it's coming out and you've like gone viral and
[8:01]it's going to be a huge thing. Yeah, this is one of those funny things where look what God can do.
[8:06]I joke about this because, you know, we're greedy with what we give to God sometimes, right? Like,
[8:12]oh, God, here's my tie. Here's my $2 bill that you can have. When I was a kid, I would like go to
[8:18]church and I would have this like, I had this big old change bowl and I would like grab a couple
[8:22]dirty things out of it and bring it to church. Not that this book is not my dirty change out of
[8:26]the bowl. Please don't take that. Let that be the takeaway here. But, you know, of all the things
[8:31]that I've been given, I was given this beautiful book deal and this is sweet. It's publisher and
[8:36]Nashville, Tennessee reached out to me and they were like, would you like to do a book? It's full
[8:40]color. You know, it'll be named after your blog and I thought this is the coolest thing in the world.
[8:45]But I knew it was going to be a limited release and it was a medium-sized publisher and so I thought,
[8:51]you know, I can do something pretty cool here. I can make some money. Authors are not rock stars.
[8:56]So, you know, it would be like a little bit of money or I could give money to charity.
[9:00]How cool would that be? So, I decided early on that I was going to tie this project to charity
[9:06]and then work my behind off to just see how much we could do with it. And I was like, all right,
[9:11]medium-sized project. This will be pretty cool. And then the next thing I know. So, you know,
[9:16]I said, oh, here's your here's your token, God. I'm going to give this to you and let's see what
[9:20]happens with it. And the next thing I know this video goes viral and I'm on Ellen and the book is
[9:25]picked up by Barnes and Noble and Target and it sells on Amazon twice. And I just think it's so
[9:33]funny, you know, because who knows what kind of success the book would have had otherwise?
[9:37]It probably would have done great and I am so proud of it because I really did pour my heart into
[9:41]these stories. But I just feel like God kind of laughed at me a little bit. Like, oh, you're going to
[9:45]give me that little book, Mary Cappen Gun. Let me do something with it. You know? He's like,
[9:52]let me do my thing, okay? And so, it's just, it's wonderful. I cannot wait to see what is going to
[9:58]get done with the proceeds.
[10:00]raised from this, the sales of this book,
[10:01]because I think the book itself is very special.
[10:03]I think it's gonna make parents feel less alone.
[10:06]But then it just makes my heart like even extra happier
[10:08]that when all of a sudden done,
[10:10]the money is gonna be sent to the Maddy Acorn Foundation
[10:13]and they're gonna get to change lives in Katali, Kenya.
[10:15]How cool is that?
[10:16]It's so cool.
[10:17]It's so cool.
[10:18]It's a beautiful thing that you did, and I really do believe
[10:22]in the sort of whatever goes around,
[10:24]comes around school of life, like when you do good,
[10:27]it will come back around at some point.
[10:29]Not that that's why you do it, but I do believe.
[10:31]Well, in this case, I really,
[10:32]I feel like sometimes the gift is just in the giving,
[10:34]and I don't say that to be cheesy,
[10:36]but if you're a parent and you have senior children
[10:38]open presence on Christmas, sometimes just watching
[10:42]somebody get something is the coolest thing in the world.
[10:45]And I cannot imagine like a better feeling
[10:47]than just like when all of a sudden done,
[10:50]watching the Maddy Acorn Foundation
[10:52]do something cool with this book is going to be
[10:54]as good as it gets.
[10:55]I have a feeling I don't need an additional something
[10:58]after that, something else comes from it
[11:01]then that's the cherry on top,
[11:02]but this is going to be special.
[11:04]And so I'm going to keep telling people
[11:06]you buy this thing, book, okay?
[11:08]Because it's going to an orphanage in Africa,
[11:10]and that sounds like I'm trying to trick you
[11:11]into buying it, but like for real.
[11:13]No, it's so funny you say that about like celebrating
[11:17]the holidays because I remember being in fifth grade
[11:19]or so myself, and I had a secret Santa at school,
[11:22]and I was like in my closet, wrapping everything,
[11:25]I put, I poured my heart and soul into this gift
[11:28]for Abigail Shrap who I've not seen since fifth grade.
[11:30]So on the off hand chance that she's listening.
[11:32]She was my secret Santa, and I just,
[11:35]and my mother came in and she's like,
[11:37]you should stop because no one else is going to
[11:39]put that much effort into gift for you.
[11:41]You're going to be disappointed.
[11:42]And I was like, what, you're missing the whole point?
[11:44]Like, I don't care what I get.
[11:46]Like this, this is what I need to do,
[11:48]and this is what makes you feel good, so anyway.
[11:51]So I don't even remember what I got.
[11:52]I remember what I gave.
[11:53]You felt so good, I saw something amazing.
[11:56]I felt amazing, and she needed it.
[11:57]She like really was clearly having a hard time.
[12:00]Anyway, okay.
[12:02]Yeah, well, let's hope that I ever love a book
[12:03]as much as this one because it how,
[12:05]I'm going to have to like give every book away,
[12:07]and then I'll be a broke author forever.
[12:11]So maybe from this, then you get like a five book deal,
[12:15]and you're like, I'm not going to give an a penny away.
[12:17]Yeah, I know, oh, come on.
[12:21]We'll have to figure something out.
[12:25]This is what happens when you like get together
[12:27]to do a podcast on Friday, Ash and you're doing it.
[12:29]I know.
[12:30]In the pandemic, we're like so fried,
[12:31]the two of us.
[12:32]Anyway, let me redo this one passage from your book
[12:37]that I loved about the challenges of raising a son
[12:40]with a ton of personality and energy,
[12:42]which I think many parents can relate to.
[12:45]So I'm just going to quote you, you said,
[12:46]I spend all day clashing with his strong will,
[12:48]iron against iron until the sun goes down.
[12:51]Then I go to bed feeling like a worn down
[12:53]nub of a human being.
[12:55]So many of our interactions
[12:56]are composed of frustration and noise.
[12:58]Establish a boundary, he crashes straight through it.
[13:01]We are in a constant tug of war for power,
[13:03]and most of the time, if I'm being honest, he's winning.
[13:08]I love that.
[13:10]I feel that one in my soul right now.
[13:13]That is right.
[13:14]Yeah, that's my little boy.
[13:15]And honestly, it's my girl who's grown into it as well.
[13:17]The book where the wild things are, right?
[13:19]Yeah.
[13:20]That is so much of my son is where the wild things are.
[13:24]I was that child and growing up,
[13:27]my mom always told me, like, one of these days,
[13:29]you're going to get what's coming to you.
[13:34]And I was just a kid, you know,
[13:36]it's not that I was a child that tried to make life hard
[13:39]for my mom, but I was a child that like,
[13:42]I loved adventure and I loved to push boundaries.
[13:45]And I just had a, I don't want to say it's just for life.
[13:49]I did try and find trouble, I guess I did.
[13:51]That's just the truth of the matter.
[13:52]And I was very good at it.
[13:54]And so is my son.
[13:55]He gets it honest, probably from me and his dad.
[13:58]And it's been a challenge being his mom,
[14:01]but like in the best way possible,
[14:03]because I don't know.
[14:05]It's like the hard ones, sometimes it's just like,
[14:07]so rewarding.
[14:08]My daughter is a little more aunt, I'll be honest.
[14:10]She's more pliable and she can be at times,
[14:14]she's like the breath of fresh tears.
[14:15]Like, oh, thank goodness, I have a child
[14:16]that's just going to do what I asked for
[14:17]to the first time sometimes.
[14:21]But then like if you have a rough day
[14:22]with your wild at heart kid,
[14:24]the one that just really pushes your buttons.
[14:27]And then you go and tuck them in
[14:29]and you know like, you got through it.
[14:31]Like, sometimes those snuggles are extra sweet.
[14:34]You know, you've earned it a little bit.
[14:36]It was just a little bit harder work.
[14:37]See what I mean?
[14:39]It's true.
[14:39]That's true, she says if her daughter comes in.
[14:42]Now she came to take my phone.
[14:44]Wasn't it 10 minutes ago she took my iPad?
[14:46]I mean, you don't need it.
[14:47]You don't need either of them.
[14:49]I'm sorry, I am so sorry.
[14:50]Nobody seems to care that I'm doing a podcast.
[14:52]That's fine.
[14:53]As long as she doesn't take her microphone, you're okay.
[14:55]Yeah, that's next.
[14:56]Next my laptop, she comes in.
[14:57]Yeah, yeah.
[14:58]It's good.
[14:59]It's fine.
[15:00]I think this is the cutest thing ever.
[15:01]Are you kidding me?
[15:03]It is so unbrand for you.
[15:05]Oh my gosh.
[15:06]So this is appropriate.
[15:07]One of your chapters in the book is called
[15:09]Every Day I'm a Mother, a little piece of me dies.
[15:12]So appropriate, she says.
[15:15]So tell me when you wrote that chapter,
[15:17]tell me what you were referring to and you know.
[15:20]Well, to be honest, when I first started writing that piece,
[15:25]that was, I think the first, when I first wrote that line,
[15:28]I was meaning it like it was one of those.
[15:32]I am literally like the most miserable.
[15:35]I am dying here.
[15:36]This was in that phase.
[15:38]I was not a good baby mom.
[15:39]Like everybody, there's different types of moms.
[15:42]There's like the good baby moms that did toddler moms.
[15:45]And some moms are just really with it, a teenager mom.
[15:48]And I'm not a good baby mom.
[15:49]And I'll be honest, both babies are really hard for me.
[15:53]And they just drool and they need things and they poop a lot.
[15:55]And I just didn't get a lot of feedback from that phase.
[15:57]And that was so hard.
[15:59]And I felt like I just spent a lot of time
[16:01]couch sitting and breastfeeding and crying.
[16:04]And I remember just sitting there and being like,
[16:06]wow, I am just slowly dying.
[16:08]My soul is shriveling away.
[16:11]And I sat down as a writer and wrote that one time,
[16:13]was every day I'm a mom, a piece of me dies.
[16:15]And I thought, how can I redeem this?
[16:17]This is terrible.
[16:18]I'm like, OK, what else of me is dying?
[16:21]Like, what good parts?
[16:23]What bad parts of me are dying is I'm appearing.
[16:25]Like, well, there's some stuff of me that needed to go away
[16:28]like my selfishness.
[16:29]And there's things of me that are being pruned right now
[16:32]as a person of faith, I think about being pruned.
[16:36]Like a weeds are being pulled.
[16:38]And frankly, you don't know how selfish you are
[16:41]until you become a parent.
[16:43]I mean, our world just revolves around us,
[16:45]especially from the time we're like teenagers.
[16:48]And we go through high school, we go through college,
[16:51]we go through that newlywed phase.
[16:53]And everything is so egocentric.
[16:55]And then all of a sudden, we have these little humans pop out
[16:58]and like, oh, like nothing is about us anymore.
[17:01]And it's just an entire access shift.
[17:04]And it's hard.
[17:06]It's, I think it was the most challenging time
[17:08]of my life spiritually, honestly.
[17:10]And I think that was where that piece went.
[17:14]It started off with me just being so selfish,
[17:16]just like, wow, I am just dying on the inside.
[17:19]And then I realized that parenting is a redemption story.
[17:22]I'm literally becoming a better person that, yeah,
[17:25]there's parts of me that are kind of dying away,
[17:27]but they're not necessarily the bad parts.
[17:29]They might have needed to go.
[17:31]That's interesting.
[17:32]You know?
[17:32]Yeah.
[17:34]That's a good way to look at it.
[17:35]Yeah, I mean, it's not wrong, but I wasn't wrong.
[17:38]I mean, this parts of me dying away every single day,
[17:41]but they might have had to, they might have
[17:44]needed to go.
[17:44]They were overdue.
[17:45]Did you, I know you referenced the postpartum depression.
[17:49]Had you ever been depressed before then or after then,
[17:51]or was it only when the kids were born?
[17:54]Or was it, and it was,
[17:55]if both kids are just just your first?
[17:57]With Ben, it was postpartum depression
[17:59]with Holland, I had postpartum anxiety.
[18:01]I think I've always struggled a little bit
[18:03]with mental illness, but it was very significant
[18:05]with my son.
[18:06]And so that was kind of like an introduction
[18:09]to the world and then frankly,
[18:10]the door was never closed.
[18:12]That's true.
[18:13]And I'm like, welcome to this new world.
[18:16]Yeah.
[18:17]I'm like, I have postpartum anxiety.
[18:19]My twins are almost 13, but, you know.
[18:21]Yes.
[18:22]It doesn't do it.
[18:23]And what's really fascinating is I didn't get diagnosed
[18:25]until I was like a year and a half into it.
[18:26]Like I did not know that you can really have it
[18:28]for almost two years.
[18:30]So, you know, I suffered for quite a while,
[18:32]but in some of it, which part of this is just
[18:35]like postpartum which part of this is who I am now.
[18:38]I don't even know.
[18:39]I've spent a lot of time trying to pick that apart
[18:41]because part of being a mom is being like
[18:43]perpetually nervous about your children
[18:45]and what's happening in the world.
[18:47]And so yeah, that was, it is kind of,
[18:50]it's nerve wracking, right?
[18:52]I mean, I feel like your body.
[18:54]Yeah.
[18:55]I feel, I've been feeling so during this Corona virus
[18:58]pandemic like just so mama bear want to like tackle
[19:02]all the kids and like lay on top of them.
[19:05]And like not let anything happen.
[19:07]I've been like so, and I'm like, I don't care.
[19:10]Like this is what I'm doing.
[19:11]I don't care if I'm overreacting, you know,
[19:13]from the beginning.
[19:14]I was just like, no, no, no, this is all about the kids.
[19:16]There's this really weird scarcity mindset that I noticed.
[19:19]It started with toilet paper.
[19:21]People were like, I need all the toilet paper
[19:23]for my family.
[19:25]And I was like, that is so weird, you know?
[19:27]But then like one day we were running out of toilet paper
[19:30]and I was like, my family needs the toilet paper.
[19:33]And that is just a really ridiculous example.
[19:35]But it's just funny how you get into this like very,
[19:39]like like just instinctual level need
[19:42]to get all of the things for your family
[19:44]and prepare for your family
[19:45]and protect your family.
[19:46]Like down to the freaking toilet paper.
[19:48]I'm an anxious mess over here.
[19:50]I feel like I need to collect all of the things
[19:52]and protect all of the things.
[19:54]And really I have no control over this.
[19:56]None.
[19:57]I said what's the same way about milk.
[19:59]I've been.
[20:00]Uh, you know, we can't get enough milk.
[20:01]We have to like, dull it out.
[20:03]I've spread it.
[20:04]I found some oat milk I could get.
[20:06]So now trying to get them to watch it.
[20:07]They don't, they will not have any of that.
[20:09]So I don't know.
[20:10]I have them of like honey.
[20:12]We're okay with cheese.
[20:13]We're going to be okay.
[20:14]We don't need any of our cheese.
[20:16]And how am I sad?
[20:17]My son's like, but where is the lactose free milk
[20:19]that I like?
[20:20]And I was like, yeah, you're not getting that.
[20:22]I can't find that.
[20:23]I'm not getting any like good luck to have a lot of water.
[20:27]Yeah.
[20:28]Anyway, so now that you've written this book,
[20:31]tell me about your, your plans coming up.
[20:32]Are you like, I love this.
[20:34]I want to write books one year for the rest of my life.
[20:36]Or you like, I never want to do that again.
[20:38]That was terrible.
[20:39]Oh my gosh.
[20:40]No, this is my favorite thing in the world.
[20:41]Are you kidding me?
[20:42]I could do this.
[20:44]I could write a million books a year.
[20:45]I really could.
[20:46]As a matter of fact, like I sit at every night when I lay down,
[20:50]I put my kids to bed and say my prayers.
[20:51]I go to bed.
[20:53]I roll over and I ignore my husband and I plan my phone.
[20:56]This is, we're being honest, right?
[20:58]And so I log into my Facebook page.
[21:00]This is where I work, though.
[21:02]I mean, this is my excuse.
[21:03]I'm allowed to do this.
[21:04]And I write a blog and, but it's my way of connecting with people.
[21:08]And I just love being creative.
[21:09]That outlet of writing like 600 to 1000 words every single day.
[21:12]It just, I feel like I am, I am learning through the writing
[21:16]process.
[21:17]Like sometimes I hit publish and I read it and I'm like, wow,
[21:20]I just, dang Yoda, like I just learned from myself.
[21:23]Just, you know, that's really cool.
[21:25]So I've got a book that I am writing right now.
[21:27]That's kind of new news, I guess.
[21:29]And I will be, I can't really share a lot of information yet
[21:32]because the legal announcement hasn't been made,
[21:34]but the fun news is something's in the works.
[21:36]So there will be more coming.
[21:38]And that's always fun to say because I guess that means I'm
[21:42]like an official official author.
[21:44]I, you know, you are an official official author.
[21:46]One of the shelves and one of the pipeline, baby.
[21:49]So I've got work.
[21:51]Thank you so much.
[21:52]I feel very lucky.
[21:53]I do. I feel so lucky.
[21:55]So maybe I will always have one of the shelves and one of the
[21:58]pipeline. That's the dream.
[21:59]That's the dream.
[22:00]That would be amazing.
[22:02]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[22:06]Oh gosh.
[22:07]You know, so I was once an aspiring rock star.
[22:11]And I was, it was the saddest thing to watch that dream
[22:14]died. I chased it forever and ever.
[22:16]But to be honest, like the journey of chasing that dream
[22:19]was so much fun.
[22:21]It was like a 10 year journey.
[22:22]I did country music festivals.
[22:25]I wrote music.
[22:26]I have albums full of songs that I wrote.
[22:28]And I will tell you that like that was a dream that I chased
[22:31]and it didn't come to fruition.
[22:32]And I still have no regrets having chased that dream and
[22:37]still having like the albums full of music that I created
[22:40]in the process.
[22:41]And I think that I'm 36 years old and there have been
[22:44]multiple dreams that I've chased.
[22:46]99% of them I never achieved.
[22:48]One of them I have.
[22:50]I think that in life you, if you're passionate about
[22:52]something, it's always worth pursuing, you know?
[22:55]And be okay if it is not going to come to fruition.
[22:58]Because like most things in life, the majority of the joy
[23:03]comes along in the journey anyways.
[23:05]And if you're not going to be happy just riding,
[23:07]you're not going to be happy making money riding.
[23:09]Because like I said earlier, like it doesn't really make
[23:12]a lot of money to begin with, do what you love for the sake
[23:17]of it because you love it.
[23:19]And if you can make a career out of it, great.
[23:21]And if not, just do it for joy.
[23:23]And I guess that's that terrible advice.
[23:24]It seems like bad advice.
[23:25]I think that's great advice.
[23:27]Okay, I love that advice.
[23:29]Okay.
[23:30]I'm not sure if that even was advice.
[23:31]That was kind of just all over the place.
[23:32]But it was advice.
[23:34]It answered the question.
[23:35]It was perfect.
[23:36]And inspiring and centering.
[23:37]Oh, good.
[23:38]Very reflective of your overall ethos.
[23:40]And I sucked at music and I succeeded at riding.
[23:45]That was actually pretty darn good at music.
[23:47]I'm wondering what you're only 36.
[23:49]Why do you have to, why does that dream have to die?
[23:52]Because remember, I got caught pumping my boobs
[23:57]by the producer of the voice.
[23:59]And I'm never going to do that again.
[24:02]I think that you should now that you have this new fan
[24:06]sort of independence and you're developing this brand.
[24:08]I do not think this is the end of the journey for you there.
[24:12]If you want, unless you want it.
[24:14]I just don't foresee that ever turning out.
[24:17]Well, for me, but we'll see.
[24:18]Maybe we'll revisit that story in another time.
[24:20]Okay, sounds good.
[24:23]Well, thank you for this very unprofessional,
[24:26]but probably one of my favorite,
[24:28]favorite ever podcast episodes.
[24:30]Does that interview ever, Zibi?
[24:32]Are you kidding me?
[24:33]Well, how to do a part two sometimes?
[24:34]Well, I have to do a part two.
[24:35]For the beat and released, I'll tell,
[24:38]how about would you like an exclusive Zibi
[24:39]when I'm allowed to tell you about my book?
[24:41]I would love that.
[24:42]I would love that.
[24:43]Yeah, let's do it.
[24:44]Let's do it.
[24:45]All right, this was so much fun.
[24:47]Have a great day.
[24:48]Okay, thanks.
[24:50]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[24:52]Moms don't have time to read books.
[24:53]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram
[24:57]at Zibi Owens and at Moms don't have time to read books
[25:00]and sign up for my mailing list at Zibi Owens.com
[25:04]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[25:06]Thanks a lot.
[25:07]Thanks to you on sweetened NYC for partnering with us today
[25:10]and for making such badass shirts for women.
[25:14]Many badass, as I know, are listening now
[25:15]and they need a uniform, so there you go.
[25:17]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[25:20]for the sound editing.
[25:21]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:23]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[25:25]Thanks for listening.
[25:26]You can always email me at ZibiAtZibi Owens.com.