Brian Platzer, THE BODY POLITIC
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[1:21]Today I'm interviewing Brian Plattzer, over Skype. He is the author of the body
[1:26]politic and bed style is burning. His writing has appeared in the New Yorker,
[1:30]McSweenies, The New York Times, The New Republic, and Salon,
[1:33]among other publications. A graduate of Columbia University with an MFA from Johns Hopkins,
[1:38]Brian currently teaches middle school English. He lives in Manhattan with his wife and two cents.
[1:43]Welcome, Brian. Thanks for coming on, Mom. So don't have time to read books.
[1:45]Thanks so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this.
[1:48]Oh, me too. Can you please tell listeners what your latest book The Body Polytechn is about?
[1:53]Absolutely. So the body politics is about a couple things. I think the easiest way to introduce
[1:57]you guys to it is that it is about a group of four friends who first meet after September 11th,
[2:06]and then the narrative of the novel begins right after Trump's election. So they are one of
[2:14]the friends who worked on Hillary's campaign as dealing with his disappointment. Another one of
[2:19]the friends has a neurological disorder, a similar to my own, which keeps him
[2:26]bedridden for most of the time and under the stress of the new political reality and his
[2:31]illness secrets from their past arise to the surface and people are in positions to confront
[2:39]those who may be hurt them in the past and to come to terms with their relationships in the
[2:44]press. I mean, that sounds like a great description. I hope so. The book is great. The book is
[2:51]great. I always am so interested in how authors describe their own books. I don't know. It's like I
[2:56]start listening to the story just hearing you summarize it. So that's awesome. No, I appreciate it.
[3:01]And it is so funny being us to summarize a novel because it felt like an op-ed argument, right?
[3:06]Where I'm like, I think the streets should be safer. And like I can give you the three reasons why,
[3:11]but trying to get four years of psychological friendship reality into a couple sentences at
[3:18]the top of a podcast is always a challenge. So I'm pleased. Thanks for rising to the challenge.
[3:24]I don't know why I do this. I don't know why I do this to people. Maybe I'm just stressing everybody
[3:28]out by asking. But you're right, someone needs to know. It's the same as the back copy of the book,
[3:32]right? Like you have to approximate it, but it's never actually like reading the book itself. It's
[3:36]funny. This book, well, if I were to contrast the description to the experience of reading it,
[3:42]I feel like the only thing I would say is that it goes very deeply in a first person way into
[3:48]the experience of having a neurological disorder and the effects of that happening to a man and
[3:53]and what the impact on his life work and family is. And I found that aspect of it super interesting
[3:58]myself. So while it is obviously about all the other stuff that piece was one of the most interesting
[4:03]to me because I hadn't seen it done really anywhere else before, especially in the way that you did
[4:08]it. So I feel like that really differentiated this novel from others, especially knowing now that it
[4:12]was based on your own neurological disorder. So I think that sort of infused it with even more
[4:18]meaning. Well, I really appreciate you saying that. I think one of the reasons why it comes
[4:23]less frequently, just the discussion of chronic illness in general comes less frequently from a man
[4:30]is is a fascinating one to spend a minute on if you don't mind the digression.
[4:34]I think it's not a digression. This is the whole point is to discuss about that.
[4:38]Right, perfect. Then I mean, I think the main reason why it's mostly women who discuss
[4:44]the difficulties of chronic illness because the medical system and our society is particularly
[4:50]ill-equipped to treat women in these conditions. So I think women are taken less seriously when
[4:57]they say that they have chronic conditions. They're told to just like get more sleep or have a baby
[5:03]or don't have a baby or drink a glass of water or I think that they are blamed for the hormonal
[5:10]issues or however they are more easily dismissed in a way that men are not. So I think that
[5:17]rightfully so many of the story's chronic illness and suffering come from women who are just so
[5:23]exasperated by going through these conditions and not being taken seriously in a way that
[5:29]that they deserve to for for these life altering and in many occasion ruining situation.
[5:35]I mean, I've spoken to hundreds and hundreds of patients who are suffering with chronic
[5:41]illness like I am and I say almost all of them are women who say like thank you for writing the
[5:46]article in The New York Times about your condition. Now I can show it to my and then fill in the
[5:51]blank and that blank is always my boss, my husband, my boyfriend or my doctor because there's just
[5:58]so many people who aren't being taken seriously when they come forward with their descriptions
[6:04]of constant but undiagnocible pain or dizziness or anything along those lines.
[6:10]It's true. I mean and it's so frustrating when easy tests can't pinpoint what it is so you can't even
[6:16]explain it right when they keep ruling out things exactly where doctors are so good at dealing with
[6:22]their own siloed specific areas where if they take an x-ray of the bone and the bone broke and
[6:28]they know how to fix it like they're still good at the plumbing of the body. But when it gets into
[6:31]these systems where you know whether it's irritable bowel syndrome or Crohn's disease which is
[6:36]you know the connection between the stomach and the brain but it doesn't exist in either one of
[6:41]those areas or a neurological disorder or a balanced disorder like the one I have which is the
[6:46]combination of eyes and ears and muscles and brain. Those are the systems where things fall apart
[6:53]and I think that on the male side before I experienced this I didn't realize the extent to which
[7:01]like my performative masculinity if that's a way to describe it existed like until it was taken away
[7:09]for me like there was there was some type of like I think women have a good vocabulary to have
[7:16]a vocabulary to discuss chronic illness. It's just like immoral and crappy like you know work like
[7:21]hysteria and all these terms that blame the woman for their condition exists but they're useless
[7:28]whereas for men I think a lot of that vocabulary doesn't even exist which is why being a man who
[7:35]suffers from new issues I think is full of shame and silence and loneliness which is maybe not
[7:42]severe as severe as the woman's experience going through it but but definitely different in
[7:47]worthy of its own depiction. I think that that leads to a lot of the opioid addiction that we see a
[7:52]lot of the suicides that are that are coming up because of just the lack of vocabulary to talk
[7:58]male illness and loneliness and fear. That's so interesting. I mean it's tragic really I mean
[8:03]and you'd think that I mean not that not to discount the medical profession who particularly at
[8:08]this time is you know falling over themselves to save the world and everything but that there is
[8:13]not a better way that they don't even have the tools necessarily that they would need to figure
[8:17]these things out even no matter how advanced all the technology has for diagnosing. Exactly it's
[8:24]the tools it's the training it's the time and it's the financial incentives. So doctors are
[8:31]so good and they work so hard and they're trained so rigorously to deal with issues that they know
[8:38]how to confront you know so like a brain surgeon is a miracle worker it's magician it's unbelievable
[8:45]what he or she can accomplish but where it comes to these more a morphous ambiguous conditions
[8:51]that aren't fixable but need to be treated and managed and discussed the financial incentives
[8:58]aren't there to spend the time necessary with the patient insurance companies don't pay for
[9:04]just chatting for two hours in the way that they do for running these medical MRIs and CT scans
[9:10]and X-rays and so there are millions of us left where we just have things that are not functioning
[9:19]correctly and doctors who are I don't think unwilling but I see to the most part in a system that
[9:25]is not as good at handling the constant that is at handling the YouTube. So interesting I mean you know
[9:33]and to hear it in the general is one thing but to hear it how it affects an individual is quite
[9:40]another right like we can sit here and talk about the system itself but you are going through this
[9:45]and you are having to deal with this in your personal life in every way shape and form and then
[9:50]of course you turn it into a fiction so other people can sort of insert themselves into that too
[9:54]and the frustration and that comes with that is probably I mean I could send
[10:00]at least in this novel and maybe it wasn't coming from you. Maybe it was character development,
[10:03]but there was a lot of anger in the book about the condition itself.
[10:08]Absolutely. And it's that, I mean, that's exactly right. And it's an anger that's almost
[10:13]an irrational anger that I felt that I put into the character because I feel like people who
[10:18]are chronically ill. I wanted to depict it in the book in a way that I've never seen it depicted
[10:22]before, where there's just a fury about everything, where I think the character expresses anger
[10:28]about the friends who reach out all the time, who say, like, how are you feeling today?
[10:34]How are you doing today? Because the answer is like, I'm always feeling terribly stop asking me.
[10:39]But he's as angry with the people who don't reach out because like, don't they realize that
[10:43]I'm always feeling terrible. There's this combination of experiencing symptoms. In my case of
[10:50]dizziness where I couldn't be alone with my kids, I couldn't work, I couldn't teach, I couldn't
[10:54]write, I couldn't fuck on the phone, my vision was distorted, I couldn't get out of bed for a
[10:57]month at a time. The combination of going through the suffering of the daily symptoms and the fear
[11:03]of not knowing whether those symptoms were going to last for a week or for a month or a year,
[11:08]the rest of my life. It just leads to so much in retrospect what was depression. But in the time
[11:15]it was just frustration and anger. And in the book, I did want to compare the feeling of the
[11:22]individual who's suffering from the effects of that frustration and impotence and anger with,
[11:28]I think a lot of people at the time, at least in New York where we live after Trump's election
[11:34]felt a version of that, a version of like, I can't believe our country chose
[11:39]it or citizens to become its president. And like, the fact that this guy admits that he
[11:46]sexually assaults women and then we choose to make him our leader, I think that there was not
[11:51]identical but it's similar kind of like fury and discombobulation and uncertainty about the world
[11:58]we're living in and I had never felt that either personally to that extreme before my illness or
[12:06]societally, at least like 9-11 was an external event that happened to us where the election of 2016
[12:15]I felt was something that we did to ourselves and of course I didn't feel it as acutely as I did
[12:22]the years and years of total impassification. But I felt that there was a similar and
[12:26]self-oppotion there to allow the novel to open up a little bit and to allow some of the
[12:34]stronger female characters to confront people who have assaulted them in the past that's
[12:38]a reaction to the political moment etc where everybody is feeling this need to act and they act
[12:43]in different ways and some of them are successful and some of them are less so.
[12:47]You know I also found it really interesting in terms of where you placed all of the feelings
[12:52]of the characters and everything how it impacted test the wife because of course while you're
[12:57]having these things not of course but if you are married or in a relationship your partner
[13:01]also has to absorb a lot of the impact of when somebody feels bad. I mean even when my husband
[13:08]is you know he has a lot of chronic pain from his years of playing professional coaching tennis
[13:13]and everything and you know you know when you deal with that like and he doesn't even really
[13:17]talk about it that much but even knowing that somebody you love is in pain and there's really
[13:21]not much you can do about it right it still affects your life and I don't mean to compare him
[13:26]to you obviously yours is completely incapacitating and I'm so sorry.
[13:30]I appreciate you comparing him to me because so many of us have some version of this some part
[13:36]of our bodies that don't work or our life that feels unfair whether it's a
[13:40]a dash of somebody who matters a lot to you or a part of your body that doesn't work you know
[13:45]a relationship falls apart to or so many of us are walking around with this type of
[13:50]of latent frustration and pain we can't control that I wanted to animate in this book and the
[13:57]character of tests is the wife of the guy who is suffering from this chronic pain and she's
[14:04]she's had her whole life dealing with you know dealing with her own childhood trauma and now
[14:11]she just sort of can't get over the fact that that she has to do it again like not only did she
[14:16]get over my horrible incident in her childhood but now her husband is being affected by this thing
[14:22]that is affecting her life she was about to star on Broadway for the first time and she couldn't
[14:26]take the job because she has to take care of him and and the way that she tries to take power
[14:32]back in her life and feeling control is I think at the same time very understandable but has
[14:39]elements of selfishness and cruelty to it because like we're all human beings trying to
[14:46]trying to catch moments of pleasure and joy and and respite you know within work within a life
[14:52]well having been through all this instead of I mean what is like the saving grace like what
[14:58]helped you the most and I know this isn't only about you this is the book but just for somebody who
[15:03]does know somebody who's going through chronic pain or the friends that you said you wanted them to
[15:07]call but you also didn't want them to call right you know what for the people who are suffering
[15:13]from this like what's the what's the message like what can help you know no no that's it's a
[15:19]great question it's one I've thought a lot about because I was so bad at articulating it when
[15:23]I myself was going through it that I think that the book became something of an exercise in
[15:30]embassy when I was forced to think through what it was like to be the wife or the best friend or
[15:34]the mother or the business partner you know of somebody who was suffering in this way and I've
[15:41]come up with two not fully satisfying answers but that that got me close whereas I think that
[15:47]there is a way to be logistically helpful from people who aren't necessarily in your you know
[15:53]immediate family or live in the house with you where I think saying how you're doing the answer
[15:59]is gonna be I'm angry and I'm sad but the answer it but if the question instead is like can I
[16:05]pick you up dinner so you don't need to worry about eating your kids or is there an errand
[16:10]specifically today that I can do for you like the more specific you can help out with whether
[16:17]the person is troubled in laundry or is dreading going to a doctor by himself or is scared of you
[16:23]know her kids you know being alone or anxious like there are everybody has logistical ways that
[16:30]somebody can offer concrete easy help and it's those people who are cooking dinner for my family
[16:36]because my wife had to work and I was incapacitated those are the people I feel most grateful for
[16:42]outside my my core family and for the people inside my core family I think just empathy I think
[16:50]that where where my wife finally ended up and realizing she could provide me the best support is
[16:55]just saying like I know you're suffering I love you I'm here and will deal with this together
[17:02]day by day or that that to me are the two things that that loved ones and friends can do provide
[17:08]like concrete tangible ways to make life easier and then to express empathy and steadfastness
[17:17]yeah it's funny as you're talking this strikes me as so similar to grief I mean this is
[17:22]exactly it's exactly the types of things you need when you're grieving someone is like the people
[17:26]to bring you food and the people to you know not be annoying about it but just to know they're there
[17:31]and to empathize and I mean it's all the rest because in a way it is so it is a type of grief
[17:37]you're like grieving the life you thought you were gonna live and instead it's exactly right it's
[17:41]the same feeling of anger and indignation and paralysis right in combination of those those two
[17:48]factors I think that that analogy is is perfect is is exactly right and like when you lose somebody
[17:55]there are always this sort of annoying people in your life who you feel you need to like perform
[18:02]like to like oh thank you so much for calling no I'm doing okay let the ones where it's almost
[18:08]takes more energy to deal with them trying to support you versus the people who say how are you
[18:14]feeling today and is anything specific I can do to make your life easier are those calls are so
[18:20]welcome whether whether one is in grief or you know physically suffering I and I don't know about
[18:26]you but I feel like people often are they don't know what to do and so they do nothing right like
[18:32]I don't want to get in the way or I don't want to intrude or you know at least for from a grief
[18:37]standpoint I can't speak to chronic pain but that doesn't help at all right right and I don't
[18:45]judge those people I mean I'm a little pissed off at them but I don't look I understand why
[18:50]I understand the idea that like everybody has his or her own life and jobs or families or kids
[18:56]or responsibilities and the idea of entering into somebody else's you know dark space and trying
[19:02]to figure out how not to offend but delicately help it's it's exhausting and it's scary and I
[19:09]totally get the idea of saying you know what I'm probably just an annoyance to him anyway like
[19:14]I'll pick him up again when when he comes out of this period of of his life and that would be
[19:21]something that I wish I had been able to to follow the advice of a little bit more when I was in it
[19:26]and that the characters in my book go through as well the feeling of just like I'm just going to
[19:31]hibernate until this is over you know and then I can start living my life again and that was
[19:36]something I personally did and that characters in my novel were doing up until the moment where
[19:42]they felt like they could confront the perpetrator of of past you know crimes and in their life
[19:47]and I wish someone had shaken me a little bit well not physically shaken me I was terrible but
[19:52]somebody would have come to me and said like we know your feeling terrible pain like we know
[19:57]every day it's difficult you know your scared
[20:00]But like try to laugh when you find things are funny.
[20:03]Like you don't need to perform your pain.
[20:07]We know you're suffering, but when things are tolerable,
[20:10]like try to enjoy that instead of presenting the fact
[20:13]that it's not like that all the time.
[20:15]And I was a bit of a baby at the worst of it.
[20:18]And it's reasonable, I forgive myself for it.
[20:21]But I think that four people who do suffer chronic conditions,
[20:26]it's important not to like have a binary view of this.
[20:29]Where like either I have the condition,
[20:32]so everything is awful.
[20:33]And I'm going to wait until I no longer do.
[20:35]And then when I no longer do, I'll, you know,
[20:37]rejoice and then have a big donut or something,
[20:40]whatever you're doing when you rejoice.
[20:41]Like it's good to try to sneak in moments of pleasure.
[20:45]Or else you fall into a depression.
[20:47]I think like, well, it is a lot about these characters
[20:50]being David's suffering, seeing their inability
[20:53]to help David's suffering, and then looking back
[20:55]into their own life and seeing how they confront elements
[20:59]of their childhood or their failure, their frustration,
[21:02]or their victimization in a way that David at the moment
[21:05]cannot.
[21:06]And I think it's all these feelings
[21:08]are so relevant for this exact moment.
[21:12]I mean, this is what's going on in such a macro level.
[21:14]And for so many people, they are sick right now
[21:17]with like the sort of why me what's going on.
[21:20]And I know there's a diagnosis for it,
[21:22]but the symptoms are so different for everybody
[21:25]and the timing is so different.
[21:26]And there's not a lot of clarity on any of it.
[21:29]And just what do you do, so.
[21:31]Right, everybody's plans.
[21:33]I mean, whether it's a birthday party
[21:36]or a wedding or a job thing or a date night
[21:38]or just getting through the next day
[21:39]which you're lunatic kids or, you know,
[21:41]check out their e-learning or wherever or wherever
[21:44]all of our families are.
[21:45]There's not, there's the combination at the moment
[21:48]of frustration in daily life and existential fear
[21:53]and horror of just like seeing a number of people
[21:55]who are dying.
[21:56]And there is, I think that advice that I just gave
[22:00]is accidentally appropriate for the moment too
[22:03]where instead of just closing your eyes and screaming
[22:06]until we get to May or June or July or whenever this ends.
[22:11]I think trying to find joy and pleasure
[22:15]even if it's in very different ways or in smaller ways
[22:20]or in fewer minutes each day.
[22:22]But I think it's important.
[22:23]Because otherwise you add an element of depression
[22:28]to what is externally difficult enough already.
[22:32]And I didn't, I didn't realize I was depressed
[22:34]when I, when I couldn't hang out with people
[22:37]because like any, and David experiences
[22:39]is too in an novel like any time,
[22:41]any one interaction with somebody isn't worth it
[22:44]because I would have like a nice lunch
[22:46]but then I would face the consequences
[22:49]and be better written for two days.
[22:50]I feel like I never went out to lunch with anybody
[22:53]but then it was two years later
[22:54]and I had never gone out to lunch with anybody
[22:56]and it's a little bit the same now.
[22:59]Again, I don't recommend you go out to lunch with them all
[23:01]but in a, in a smaller way like it's the idea
[23:06]of don't just freeze your life
[23:09]and not give yourself anything
[23:12]and let your attention dominate and your anxiety
[23:15]to find this experience
[23:17]because then it makes the experience itself worse as well.
[23:21]Did you find writing helps you through this?
[23:24]I found writing once I was able,
[23:27]so I'm, I'm medicated now.
[23:29]People still don't really understand what's wrong
[23:31]with my brain, they don't really understand
[23:32]why the medications mitigate the symptoms
[23:35]but I have an very, very grateful
[23:37]for five or six hours of real clarity a day
[23:40]where I can do some writing or do some teaching
[23:43]and then spend time with my family.
[23:45]I'm feeling very, very lucky for it.
[23:47]The experience of writing, I felt cathartic
[23:51]in that it helped me remember
[23:54]and have power over and control
[23:56]some of the memories of trying to put my kids to sleep
[24:00]when they were crying and not understanding
[24:01]what was wrong with me
[24:02]and I was scared to think about a lot of that
[24:05]in retrospect and this book helped me frame it
[24:07]in a way that there was fiction
[24:10]so I didn't need to relive it necessarily
[24:12]but the emotions were so real that it helped me
[24:15]understand what I was going through.
[24:18]But more than that, the writing the book helped me
[24:20]as I mentioned earlier, just like understand
[24:23]what it was like for my wife
[24:24]because I didn't put myself in her position
[24:28]and to think what it's like trying to balance
[24:31]a professional life and raising kids
[24:34]and taking care of your spouse
[24:37]without the partnership of your spouse.
[24:39]I feel like it was an incredibly important exercise
[24:44]to go through that just made me feel so much more grateful
[24:48]on the other end for my close friends
[24:52]and wife and parents and sister in a way
[24:55]that I took for granted while I was experiencing it.
[24:59]So in that way I hope that the book has the correct balance
[25:04]of those negative emotions that we were talking about earlier
[25:08]and the sense of gratitude and love and sex and joy
[25:12]and friendship where those elements can exist.
[25:17]That's great.
[25:17]I mean, I found myself wondering why you didn't write a memoir
[25:21]but I get it now, I get it.
[25:23]Right, it's funny, people since reading an album
[25:26]and my pieces for the time have asked me
[25:28]whether I would want to write a memoir
[25:30]and I've tried to sit down and play with the idea
[25:34]but I can't figure out how the memoir would be anything
[25:37]other than my complaining.
[25:39]Like it was really crappy and there's no real logic to it
[25:43]and it didn't happen for any real reason
[25:46]and I didn't find a medication for any real reason
[25:48]and to novel the first draft of the novel
[25:52]began with a lot more pitching and moaning
[25:55]by the character who suffers from chronic illness
[25:58]and I realized it was like a nut of it
[26:00]and it was boring and nothing more was coming from it.
[26:02]So I cut that down dramatically
[26:05]only the sissy some odd pages that exist
[26:08]in his journal and let the other characters live and breathe
[26:10]and it felt like a more useful document
[26:14]than a memoir in this way but also a just a more readable.
[26:18]This book, I wanted it to be thrilling
[26:21]and I wanted the reader to need to know
[26:24]how the conversation was gonna end
[26:26]and whether she was gonna be able to achieve catharsis
[26:30]through confrontation or not, et cetera
[26:33]where the memoir it was too insular,
[26:35]it was too close to me when I was writing it in that manner.
[26:38]Do you think you're gonna write another book?
[26:40]Are you working on something?
[26:42]I do.
[26:43]So in my other life, I'm an eighth grade English teacher
[26:46]and I run a tutoring company because being a novelist
[26:49]is a tough way to raise kids and have a mortgage
[26:52]and all that so I'm in this funny position
[26:56]where I just handed in a book for Penguin Random House
[27:00]while taking the stress out of homework
[27:03]but the idea of homework being the stress point
[27:08]in people's lives right now seems so absurd
[27:11]that we're trying to figure out how we can be most helpful
[27:15]to parents who are feeling stress in educating their
[27:20]their ticket home or in their kids losing a year
[27:23]or so of school or with all the e-learning stuff
[27:26]how I can be of service in that realm.
[27:29]So I think it's gonna be healthy for me to escape
[27:31]into the nonfiction helping parents figure out
[27:35]how to navigate life with their kids a little bit
[27:38]and then I'll dive back into the deeper
[27:43]more emotionally complex for all.
[27:47]Well, you have a lot on your plate
[27:50]but it's so nice of you to have, well first of all,
[27:53]to have taken the time to chat with me
[27:54]knowing that you only have a set amount of times
[27:56]when you can be coherent in a given day
[27:58]and so thank you for that.
[28:00]Also, this came off as coherent
[28:01]and it was a victory.
[28:03]Yes, I'll give you points for coherence.
[28:08]But I also think it's really great
[28:10]that you took your experience and this book
[28:13]I know it's framed with a political bent
[28:15]but I really do think it is super helpful
[28:18]as a resource for anybody who's going through
[28:21]chronic pain which is so many people
[28:23]and the people who love them.
[28:24]So it's sort of a gift for that community
[28:27]and I'm glad it's helped you as well.
[28:30]So thank you so much for saying that.
[28:32]That really means the world.
[28:34]No, and I know you have a zillion friends
[28:36]and everything else but if you ever need a meal dropped off
[28:39]or something like that, I am usually in the city
[28:42]so I can be of service if you need the help.
[28:44]For any of this entire interview
[28:46]or just a passive aggressive way for me to ask
[28:48]for like a roast chicken from you at the end.
[28:50]Ryan, I will drop off a roast chicken
[28:52]when after the end.
[28:54]Well, thank you so much.
[28:57]I will ask you for a roast chicken off the air.
[29:00]But this is a pleasure and I really appreciate
[29:03]your generosity and the time you're spending chatting about this
[29:06]it really doesn't mean a lot.
[29:07]No problem.
[29:08]All right, have a great day.
[29:09]You too.
[29:10]Bye-bye.
[29:11]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[29:13]Moms don't have time to read books.
[29:15]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram
[29:19]at Zibi Owens and at Moms don't have time to read books
[29:22]and sign up for my mailing list at Zibi Owens.com
[29:25]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[29:28]Thanks a lot.
[29:29]Thanks to you on Sweetened NYC for partnering with us today
[29:32]and for making such badass shirts for women
[29:35]many badass as I know or listening now
[29:37]and they need a uniform so there you go.
[29:39]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[29:41]for the Sound Editing and thank you
[29:43]to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[29:46]intro and out trim music.
[29:47]Thanks for listening.
[29:48]You could always email me at zibiatzibi Owens.com.