Lauren Ho, LAST TANG STANDING
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zive Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:11]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening to my podcast. If you like what
[0:16]you hear, please follow me on Instagram at Zive Owens and also at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[0:21]Books. Thanks so much for listening. Enjoy it.
[0:23]I'm so excited to discuss my sponsor today, which is Page One Books, because my summer
[0:29]book bundle is ready on PageOneBooks.com. And the bundle that I fit together includes three books
[0:35]that I picked, Montauk by Nicola Harrison, more myself by Alicia Keys. And I miss you when I
[0:40]blanked by Mary Lorafilpat, all of which have been on this podcast here. It includes a
[0:45]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books, Beech Toad, a cute little library card pencil slash cosmetic case,
[0:50]and a water bottle for saying hydrated plus a little thing of sun lotion. So go to page one
[0:56]books.com, page one with the number one. So page number one books.com and check out my page one
[1:03]of Books Summer Bundle by it is a gift to housewarming if you actually go somewhere or just give it
[1:08]to yourself. Everybody needs a treat without a long spring. PageOneBooks.com. Hi, today's day two
[1:15]of my July book last, which I started yesterday with memoir Mondays. Today is debut Tuesdays,
[1:21]and I'm going to be featuring a number of incredible debut authors whose books have come out
[1:26]during the quarantine or around this time or our great beach reads and things you should definitely
[1:31]start reading now. I will be doing this for 10 days in July with lots and lots of episodes so that
[1:37]you all can enjoy it while it's still the summer. I hope you enjoy today's debut Tuesday.
[1:42]Listen to all of them or some of them and spread the word. Lauren Ho is the author of Last
[1:47]Tang Standing. She is a reformed legal counsel who writes funny stories. This is according to her.
[1:52]I think they're funny, but anyway, that's according to her. Hailing from Malaysia. She lived in the
[1:55]United Kingdom, France, and Luxembourg before moving with her family to Singapore where she is ostensibly
[2:00]working on her next novel. And she says, Last Tang Standing is not based on her mother at all
[2:05]seriously. I mean, how could you not want to read it or listen to her episode after hearing that
[2:09]by him? Welcome, Lauren. Thanks so much for coming on Monster and have time to read books and
[2:13]congratulations on Last Tang Standing. How exciting. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Zippy. I
[2:18]really excited to be talking to you today and yeah, I hope you will have fun.
[2:23]You have the funniest about the author bio book jacket description that I've like ever read.
[2:29]I already read it on your bio here, but you're so funny that when you say it's not based on your
[2:34]mother at all seriously. Tell me about it. So tell me about how Last Tang Standing is not
[2:39]based on your mother. What's it based on then? And maybe start by explaining what the book is
[2:44]about to people who haven't read it. Sure, sure. So Last Tang Standing is a book about a 30-something
[2:49]year old lawyer, a 30-something lawyer who's basically trying to climb the corporate letter while
[2:55]you know, funding off the unhealthy interests her relatives have in her love life. So it's basically
[3:02]written in diary form and it's that over the course of a year. And we're going to follow Andrea's
[3:07]journey, Andrea's protagonist, you know, as she tries to find what she wants in life. So that's
[3:13]basically the story of the book. And when I say it's not based on my mom, it's because I'm the
[3:19]gooey of life. But my mom knows. No, I'm kidding. It's only like partially based on her,
[3:26]of course. I have to say this is being recorded. So when you meet the main character in this book,
[3:35]she's facing the Chinese New Year, which I didn't even know was like the worst time ever for
[3:40]single women who were over 30 in the Chinese culture community. Tell me a little more about that.
[3:47]And if, like, did this happen to you or these are friends of yours that haven't
[3:51]to, or just tell me about where you started the book, how you entered it that way?
[3:55]Well, obviously I saturated certain aspects of the book for like,
[3:59]commonly we age. But it is a terrible time for single people, you know, Chinese New Year,
[4:03]like I suppose any clan gathering for people with, you know, from cultures where family
[4:10]ties are still really important. And you have a lot of clanant gatherings. So like Chinese
[4:14]New Year is pretty much like the worst for england things that are about 30 in like,
[4:20]who are of like Chinese background. I didn't go through this thankfully because I got married,
[4:25]pretty. Yeah, I got married when I was like, maybe seven. Not because I was afraid of
[4:30]the clan gathering unless I must stress. I don't know. I think you're protesting too much, you know,
[4:35]I'm not, I'm not sure I buy it, but okay fine. But I had many friends who had
[4:40]gone through similar things and they told me like, you know, they always dreaded Chinese New Year
[4:45]because like people get extra drunk and extra, extra, you know, pray. That's not even a word.
[4:51]Like, you know, they get, yeah. What a story. Yes. And where are you by? Are you in Singapore now?
[4:57]Or where are you calling from? Actually, I'm in Malaysia, which is, you know, in the same time
[5:02]so in a Singapore. And I'm currently based there because my husband's word for us
[5:08]seemed to be there, but we might move back to Singapore. I don't know. I'm kind of in between
[5:12]places. It's weird because I am from Malaysia, but I hadn't been living in Malaysia for over a
[5:17]decade more than that before I move back. So yes, it's strange. And so are you in closer proximity
[5:24]to your mother now? Oh, no. She's in a different state with my dad. Oh, I think I tried to
[5:30]not. I'm kidding. They moved to a state closer to Singapore when I had a kid and they would do
[5:37]the crossing like they would cross the streets to see me, but then we moved to Malaysia and they're
[5:43]like, oh, you're in Kuala Lumpur now and that's like not what we were expecting. But now they have
[5:49]this house in Lahore, which is the state, which is closest to Singapore. And you're like, oh, that's
[5:55]not working out the way I thought it would. But you know, some ways to life, right? That's an
[6:01]important lesson for my mom to learn. So tell me about your decision to write this book at all.
[6:08]Like, what made you want to write a book or this book in particular? Well, I have been writing
[6:13]competitively. I call it competitive writing for some time. So I used to write short stories and
[6:17]submit them for competitions and like some of them have been published. And I always had in mind
[6:23]that I wanted to write a like a novel, but I never really had the time because back then I used to
[6:28]be a legal counsel. And I was always like working really long hours. And so when we moved to Singapore
[6:35]about six years ago, I finally had the time to sit down and like I had like the bandwidth to
[6:40]write. And so at the same time, I was also trying to stand up comedy as like an amateur. And so
[6:47]this was like the time for me to kind of like experiment creatively. And so I got the idea for the
[6:55]book during a standup comedy set about conditional versus unconditional love and Asian parents.
[7:02]So that's how I got the idea for the book. And it just kind of snowballed on there. Yeah.
[7:08]So funny. And I saw actually you're in conversation soon with Kevin Kwan and I interviewed him
[7:13]yesterday. Great. I mean, I'm excited about it. I try not to think about it because I might not
[7:19]be able to like sneak at night if I do. So I'm just trying trying to think about it.
[7:26]Do you watch the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel? Do you have you ever seen that show about the standup
[7:31]Jewish comedian back in the, I don't know when it was the 50s probably. And she, you know,
[7:35]Mitch Maisel decides to not be a housewife anymore and just, you know, take over the world and
[7:41]go do standup comic everywhere. And anyway, you should watch it. It's really funny. It's really
[7:45]good. Or maybe you should just make your own version of a show like that.
[7:49]No, I don't think I would be a, I don't know. I, I wouldn't know where to start. I don't think
[7:53]I would be a good actor or a scriptwriter. So obviously, I don't know. You pulled out, you pulled
[7:58]off this book. So tell me more about the process of writing your book. So you thought of the idea
[8:06]during standup and then what happened? And then I did the adult thing of like setting aside
[8:11]some time every day and writing a little bit every day. You know, when I was in my 20s, I used
[8:16]to think like, you know, writing would just be like, oh, the news has struck and I'm going to
[8:20]sit down and write something. But I actually got pretty good advice from my friends and told me,
[8:25]like, if you want to finish a novel, you need to just sit down for like a certain hour,
[8:30]like certain number of hours a day and just like write the novel. And that's what I did. And
[8:35]that's the only reason I managed to finish the novel. Yeah. So discipline. And I, I might have
[8:40]forgotten the question. Sorry. No, that's okay. No, that's fine. I just wanted to know about your journey,
[8:45]you know, to writing it. Did you have the whole thing plotted out in your head? Did you know
[8:49]the way you wanted it to go when you sat down to write it or did it all just come tumbling out once
[8:53]you, once your fingers hit the keyboard? So the first drop I ever did, which I thought was good
[8:58]enough. And I, which I submitted out to agents, obviously it was not good enough because I didn't
[9:02]I got like some requests for like full manuscript, but no actual bite in the end. But yeah, so like,
[9:10]the first draft was not so good. And it was just something that I had like the barest grass
[9:15]on plotting. And I just thought this is the way it should go blah, blah, blah. But after I got
[9:20]those rejections, I kind of sat down and I read a couple, you know, more than a couple of craft
[9:26]books. And I learned a plot by reading these books. And yeah, so I, I read, reject maybe 30% of
[9:34]the book and like edit another 20% and all these stats make me sound much more intelligent than
[9:41]I probably am. That's how that version that actually got me an agent actually was so
[9:48]came about. But yeah, it has gone through a lot of me drafting. Yeah, I kind of like once I knew what
[9:55]I was doing, I was like, oh no, I checked at this idea and I checked at this scene and my
[10:00]but there was like, gave me the damn manuscript.
[10:02]And I should give you the better script,
[10:04]the deadline's here, so.
[10:05]And yeah.
[10:06]It reminds me a little of Bridget Jones' diary
[10:08]in the whole diaristic format of the book
[10:11]and having little entries and, you know,
[10:13]next to different times and what you were thinking
[10:16]or not you, sorry, what your character is thinking
[10:18]as she goes through it.
[10:19]Did you model it on books like that?
[10:21]Or did you have any inspiration from other books?
[10:23]Or did you just go at it the way you had in mind?
[10:26]So I had always known that I would write the book
[10:29]in diary form.
[10:30]So what I did was before I started writing,
[10:33]I started reading up all the diary books I had.
[10:36]So like, Bridget Jones' diaries,
[10:39]like I had two or three books and I read them all.
[10:42]And then I read like, Asian Maldairies,
[10:44]I think I read like two or three as Welcome series.
[10:47]And I loved the Adrienne Maldairies by the way.
[10:49]Those were like, nobody talks about them anymore.
[10:51]I still have one from when I was little.
[10:54]Like those were fantastic.
[10:56]Yeah, they're so good, right?
[10:58]And I just basically read them and like,
[11:00]I figured out how, like, you know,
[11:03]I just need a refresher as to how like a diary form novel
[11:06]could be.
[11:07]And I just kind of like did my own thing.
[11:09]I probably put in more traditional,
[11:11]traditional narrative structure, sorry,
[11:15]I probably spliced in more traditional narrative chunks
[11:18]than like, Bridget Jones and I read it or Asian Maldairies.
[11:21]But yeah, so it's like a mixture of, I did my own thing,
[11:26]I guess.
[11:27]So I hope that answers your question.
[11:29]Yeah, that is in my question.
[11:30]So start to finish.
[11:31]How long do you think the whole project took you?
[11:33]I finished the first draft in 2017 and I spent 2018 redrofting
[11:39]and I got my agent in 2019.
[11:43]So I think the whole process probably took like three and a half years.
[11:48]Yeah, publishing is like takes such a long time, right?
[11:51]It's not like, it's not for someone who has very short attention
[11:54]span or like very little patience
[11:57]because the turnover for one project takes forever.
[12:00]And it's not even like, you have no control for it.
[12:03]You just basically have to just,
[12:05]we relinquish control and let your publishers do your thing.
[12:08]And that can take a year and a half to two years.
[12:10]And people don't know that.
[12:12]Yeah, slow.
[12:13]That's why sometimes I like writing essays
[12:15]that you can post yourself like immediately.
[12:18]Like 800 words and then it's up.
[12:21]And then you can post it and spread the word.
[12:23]So I don't know.
[12:24]I'm too, I feel like I'm too impatient for a lot of things.
[12:27]Are you working on new book or what's coming next for you?
[12:30]So I'm working on a sequel that will hopefully be sold.
[12:36]I actually don't have a second book deal yet.
[12:39]So I'm like waiting for myself to finish.
[12:42]I'm waiting to finish the book and see how it goes.
[12:45]And then actually sell the second book I hope.
[12:47]But yeah, I'm working on a sequel.
[12:49]Maybe TMI.
[12:50]I'm looking at TMI.
[12:52]That's it.
[12:53]And I saw on Instagram how you took your daughter
[12:56]and you're like, staking out different bookstores.
[12:58]And I think you can be out of the house
[12:59]and look around and all that.
[13:00]Tell me about what that feeling was like seeing your book
[13:03]on a shelf.
[13:03]Oh, it was great.
[13:04]Yeah, I kind of in describe the feeling.
[13:07]It's like dread makes with anticipation,
[13:10]makes with, I don't know, many drinks.
[13:13]I don't know.
[13:15]I was just, the first time I saw my book on a shelf,
[13:17]and it was in Kino, Kino, and Malaysia.
[13:20]I was just so overcome with emotion
[13:23]because it was like Kino, Kino, Kino, Kino,
[13:26]it's like the water stones,
[13:27]if you wish, or Barnes and Noble of Malaysia and Singapore.
[13:31]And well, they're kind of everywhere in the region.
[13:34]So they're kind of like a big deal.
[13:37]And I'm relationship.
[13:38]So seeing my book in the Kino, Kino,
[13:41]store in KLCC was a big deal for me.
[13:45]I kind of want to see this book in person in Singapore
[13:49]because that's where I wrote the book.
[13:51]And that's where I was when I had my stand-up comedy stint
[13:55]for two years.
[13:56]So I kind of want to be there to see the books.
[13:59]I'm hoping that the borders open
[14:01]and we can travel soon.
[14:03]I'm hoping.
[14:04]Yeah, this year is in the top year to be a debut.
[14:06]I won't get around.
[14:07]It's been a tough year.
[14:08]But yeah, you know, it's hard.
[14:10]I know.
[14:11]I have just had such an outpouring of sort of,
[14:15]I don't know, empathy and trying to,
[14:17]I just feel so bad for people,
[14:19]like you have done all the work and done everything right.
[14:22]And then it comes out.
[14:23]And the environment is just like not what you expected.
[14:25]And you know, the work is still,
[14:28]the work hasn't changed.
[14:29]It's just everything else in the entire universe.
[14:32]So I don't know.
[14:32]I have a lot of compassion for trying to get the word out
[14:35]about great debut books like yours.
[14:37]So yeah, my heart goes out to you
[14:39]and all your peers and, you know, it's tough.
[14:42]But not impossible, right?
[14:43]I mean, look at you, you're standing out already.
[14:45]So it's great.
[14:46]Not impossible.
[14:47]I think the thing that most authors want is, you know,
[14:51]that in story events, right, where they can like
[14:54]find the books and meet fans or haters.
[14:57]But you want to meet the people who've read your book
[14:59]in person, right?
[15:00]Because there's still something special
[15:02]about meeting people in person.
[15:04]Because there's social animals.
[15:05]And it's not the same like signing a stack of books
[15:09]and having like the bookstores mail them out,
[15:11]which is what I've done for a few of the Indies
[15:14]in Kuala Lumpur, where I'm based.
[15:17]And it's just not the same
[15:18]because you don't get to meet your readers.
[15:21]And well, I'm hoping that this would change.
[15:24]But and it looks like it might change soon.
[15:26]So I'm still crossing my fingers.
[15:28]Yeah, but you know, you know, I'm really happy
[15:31]that I've managed to meet so many interesting people
[15:34]to like virtual events.
[15:35]Like, you know, the authors would have never happened
[15:39]if not for like the C word.
[15:41]And so you know, I take pleasure
[15:43]and like, you need unexpected serendipitous events.
[15:47]And I'm going to meet Kevin, I mean, I'm going to meet Kevin
[15:49]Kwan, so you know what I mean?
[15:51]They're good on bad things, you know?
[15:53]So yeah.
[15:54]I do like that the physical boundaries separating people
[15:58]are gone just, you know, I was like, what am I doing today?
[16:01]Oh, I mean, bring somebody in Malaysia
[16:02]and then an hour later in London
[16:04]and then an hour later in Nigeria.
[16:06]Like that is so cool.
[16:07]I mean, I never would have had that before.
[16:09]It wouldn't have been on the menu of options.
[16:12]So yeah, that is a huge benefit
[16:14]that, you know, physical boundaries no longer
[16:17]should prohibit any communication, not that they did,
[16:19]but now at least it's like in my face that it's so easy.
[16:22]So you have like a professional looking mic.
[16:26]Thank you.
[16:27]You know, I love my mic.
[16:27]I got it on Amazon.
[16:29]It's called It's a Blue Yeti microphone.
[16:31]I Googled Best Microphones for podcast a couple years ago
[16:35]and this is what came up.
[16:35]And so I am a huge fan.
[16:38]Yes, now my son has stolen one and is using it upstairs
[16:42]to play video game, so his friends think he's the coolest.
[16:44]But thank you, though.
[16:47]So do you have any advice to aspiring authors?
[16:51]Yes, put your butt down and finish the manuscript
[16:54]because that's the only way you have anything
[16:56]to present to anyone.
[16:58]So sit down, finish your manuscript
[17:00]and start getting out of people's opinions on it.
[17:04]But not too many, like gentle but firm readers,
[17:08]does that exist?
[17:09]Yes, but yeah.
[17:10]So you need people to look through your work
[17:12]and tell you if it's good or bad.
[17:15]But finish your work, though.
[17:16]Is there anyone I wish you hadn't shown your work to?
[17:19]Not really.
[17:20]I kind of wish I had shown my sister the second or third
[17:23]draft I did.
[17:24]It was the first draft.
[17:25]She was like not very impressed.
[17:27]And she's read a lot of myself.
[17:28]And she was like, oh, this is not going to go very far.
[17:30]And she was right.
[17:31]It didn't really go very far.
[17:33]So I wish I had shown her the second or third manuscript.
[17:36]So yeah, it's more like a regret, not really.
[17:38]I wish I hadn't shown to want this.
[17:40]Excellent.
[17:41]Well, thank you, Lauren.
[17:42]Thanks for coming on Mom's End of Time to read books.
[17:44]Thanks for talking about your whole experience.
[17:47]Thanks for bridging this sort of international borders
[17:50]of us getting to Chitchat today and all the rest.
[17:53]So thank you.
[17:55]Having me, and I hope you enjoy your other two interviews
[17:59]in London, was it?
[18:00]And Nigeria?
[18:01]Yeah.
[18:01]Wow, that's pretty intense.
[18:03]Yeah, good luck.
[18:04]And take the care of your voice.
[18:05]I feel like you might eat that.
[18:07]Oh, no.
[18:08]I don't know.
[18:09]I have honed it from years of screaming at my children.
[18:11]So it's fine now.
[18:14]It never gets tired.
[18:16]Well, maybe one day we can finally meet in person.
[18:18]If you ever get to New York, or I don't
[18:21]know if I have any plans to go to Kuala Lumpur,
[18:23]but you never know.
[18:23]Life is crazy.
[18:24]So I think it's more likely that I'll be in New York one day
[18:28]than the opposite.
[18:30]But I have a tip.
[18:31]Like, if you ever meet something to lubricate your throat,
[18:34]like, apple cider vinegar won't apple cider vinegar.
[18:37]Like, a dollop of honey is really good for the throat.
[18:41]Like, I've used this for my voice is going a little bit.
[18:44]I don't know if you can hear this,
[18:45]but because I've done a couple of interviews today.
[18:47]And yeah, but like, honey is so good.
[18:50]Yeah.
[18:51]My husband has jars and jars of apple cider vinegar in the fridge.
[18:54]He's all about that.
[18:55]Like, turmeric and apple cider.
[18:57]We have so many, we're like a homeopathies story.
[19:01]But thank you.
[19:02]Yes, he's always trying to get me to do that.
[19:04]And I usually don't.
[19:05]So thank you for the reminder.
[19:08]I appreciate it.
[19:09]It was so good to talk to you.
[19:10]It was so good to talk to you too.
[19:12]OK, have a really good afternoon morning.
[19:14]Morning.
[19:15]Yes, still morning here.
[19:16]You too have a good night.
[19:18]All right.
[19:19]Thanks, Lauren.
[19:19]Take care.
[19:20]Bye-bye.
[19:21]Thanks for listening to one of my debut Tuesday episodes
[19:24]in the July book blast series.
[19:27]I really hope you enjoyed it.
[19:28]And it's really my pleasure to bring you some debut authors
[19:31]you might not have heard of or have listened to.
[19:33]So enjoy.
[19:34]I hope you really got a lot out of it.
[19:36]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[19:38]Moms don't have time to read books.
[19:40]If you liked this episode, please follow me
[19:43]on Instagram at zivioens and at Moms don't have time
[19:46]to read books.
[19:47]And sign up for my mailing list at zivioens.com
[19:50]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[19:53]Thanks a lot.
[19:54]Thanks so much to page one books for sponsoring today's episode.
[19:56]I hope you'll all check out my summer beach bundle
[19:59]at page one book.
[20:00]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you
[20:05]to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.
[20:09]Thanks for listening!
[20:10]You could always email me at zibiadzibiowans.com