Sonali Dev, RECIPE FOR PERSUASION
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:11]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening to my podcast.
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[1:13]Welcome to the third day of my July book blast. This is Be Treats Wednesday. And I'll be releasing
[1:21]lots of episodes this week and next to get all these great be treats out and also books that
[1:27]have come out during the quarantine or books that I think you just need to read at this time.
[1:31]And I just don't want you to miss these authors for any longer. So anyway, here are some great
[1:36]beach reads. Each episode this week will have a book that I think you should curl up with and read
[1:41]if you ever find the time. Sonali Deb is the author of recipe for persuasion as well as several
[1:47]other books. She is a USA Today best-selling author who writes Bollywood style love stories to let
[1:52]her explore issues faced by women around the world while still indulging her faith in a happily
[1:57]ever after. Her novels have been on library journal and PR, Washington Post, Kirkus' best book of
[2:03]the year list. And she's won the American Library Association's award for Best Romance, the R.T.
[2:08]Reviewer Choice Award for Best Contemporary Romance, multiple R.T. Seals of Excellence,
[2:13]and is a Rita Finalist. She's been listed for the Dublin Literary Award and Shelf Awareness
[2:18]calls her not only one of the best for one of the bravest romance novelists working today.
[2:22]She lives in Chicago Land with her very patient and often amused husband and two teens who
[2:27]demand both patients and humor, plus the world's most perfect dog. Well, thanks so much for
[2:32]coming on mom. Don't have time to read books to talk about your latest book.
[2:38]Thank you for having me. This is very exciting. Oh, it's my pleasure. So you are a Bollywood
[2:46]like what? Passionate, like you're just obsessed with the Bollywood theme. Tell me about how you
[2:51]started writing about all of it. Just tell me everything and tell me about recipe for persuasion
[2:57]and everything. Great. That's my favorite thing to talk about. So I grew up in India. I moved here
[3:03]many, many, many years ago, but I grew up in India and Bollywood films and I'm basically on
[3:09]what reigned watching Bollywood and Hollywood. So there is this concept that we have in India
[3:16]about being filming, which means basically in your real life, creating your real life like it's
[3:22]a film or a movie. And so, and it fits the Indian state of mind very well because it's essentially
[3:29]been very dramatic and as my kids say extra. So Bollywood films definitely are very much, I think,
[3:38]into woven into who I am as a person, but not only in terms of being dramatic, but I think that
[3:45]it's really a way of looking at the world or dealing with relationships. It's where the emotional
[3:51]lens is just a little bit more aware and dialed up and I say a little bit by which I mean very.
[4:00]And of course I'm being suspicious here, but I think really Bollywood films over time have been
[4:07]such a great way to kind of trap the Indian psyche. So there's always
[4:14]community set. The families are always huge influences. No human stands alone in terms of
[4:22]being part of a community. So it's very sort of stylistically, I think in terms of storytelling,
[4:28]which I very much consider my style of storytelling, Bollywood style. And by that I don't mean
[4:35]ridiculous because there is one kind of melodramatic, ridiculous component to it. What I mean is
[4:43]you know, it is just seen story through a lens of emotion and seen story always through a lens
[4:48]of community and every character being, you know, individual, but their individuality being entirely
[4:55]wrapped up in family and community. So that's kind of, you know, the impact it's had on me.
[5:03]And then of course, you know, seeing your world as ridiculous. You know, one thing, one thing too,
[5:09]you know, really feel things. I think that a lot of people who watch Bollywood films,
[5:14]but the most fun part of it is that you actually feel things. And I don't mean even that you're
[5:20]forced to feel things, but you're just in there, right? I mean, even the musicality is just these
[5:26]some bursting in your head when something, you know, terrible or something fabulous happens.
[5:31]So it's almost a way of processing stories and a way of processing life. So for sure,
[5:37]you know, my books are very much bad. And as for recipe for persuasion, it is my homage to Jane Austen's
[5:46]persuasion. But of course, it stands completely alone. And by, you know, I use the term homage
[5:51]because it's not a retelling really because you won't be able to find, you know, seems that,
[5:57]you know, that directly translate. It's not Jane Austen's persuasion set in the Indian community.
[6:03]It's its own story that that pays homage to what I learned from that story as a young girl.
[6:10]And that was that you can make mistakes in this always a second chance, that, you know, mistakes
[6:16]are not absolute. That hope is a real thing, which we which I don't think until I read Austen,
[6:22]I was seeing a whole lot of literature in classic literature. So it's my homage to what I learned
[6:29]at a little girl from her. And as a story, it's the story of this chef in Palo Alto,
[6:36]who is trying to save her father's fine dining in your restaurant. You know, for 12 years
[6:40]since her father died, she's been trying to rescue this restaurant. And as a last-age effort,
[6:45]she goes on a food network show called Cooking With Those Stars. And of course, since it is
[6:52]or so, the celebrity she gets stuck with is the man, she, you know, the man who's hard,
[6:59]she broke back in high school. And he believes it was under familial pressure. And, you know,
[7:05]and this is he's back for closure. She needs her own closure with her issues with her family.
[7:11]And so all that gets tangled up. And while it's a love story between her and this man who's
[7:17]has gone on to become a World Cup winning soccer player, it's also a love story between her
[7:23]and her mother. And so it's almost this two, you know, it's these two parallel stories,
[7:29]all second chances that are entangled because who Ashna is and what she allows
[7:36]and to her life has to do with these two, you know, these two relationships which have,
[7:40]you know, been almost the stone around her neck, so to speak. And so it is, you know,
[7:46]it's a fun story, but it really also is a story that explores, you know, female relationships
[7:53]and especially mother daughter relationships. My hand, a mother is a woman who refuses to do what
[7:59]society expected of her. So we are as women continuously taught that if we slip up, if we're not good
[8:06]mothers, if we're not good wives, then, you know, then we destroy the family structure. We destroy
[8:12]children's lives. And it actually happens because that's the situation we're put in by society. And
[8:18]so when a woman stands up and says, no, I'm going to put my own desires before everything else,
[8:23]then there's collateral damage and Ashna who's the chef and our protagonist is the collateral
[8:28]damage. And it's these two women navigating that distance. Wow. Well, there's a lot in there to discuss.
[8:36]You keep coming back to this idea of second chances. Is there a time in your life that you
[8:43]really wanted or needed a second chance? Like, does that come from something personal or not?
[8:48]So I think growing up within the Indian community or growing up in India at that time,
[8:56]there was this sense of absolute. So you only, you know, one mistake could show, or at least this
[9:03]is what we were told. And I think it was completely nonsense narrative, but what we were told
[9:08]is that if you slip up, then your entire life, you know, is going to go off the rails. So say you
[9:15]get involved with the wrong manner, you know, your honor is gone forever. If you don't get the right
[9:21]grades and get into the right college, then your career is gone forever. So there was this,
[9:25]you know, this you do the right thing at the right time was, you know, was this kind of overarching
[9:32]motto that we were raised with. And it was all around us. And I think, you know, that sense
[9:38]where somewhere in my heart, I knew that was not true. And and books, you know, and stories,
[9:43]which focused on reinforcing that I gravitated towards. So yes, absolutely. You know, I mean,
[9:49]I feel like the one truth in life is that there is always a second chance, no matter how,
[9:54]how much it feels like that isn't. And that's why we say things like, you know, everything happens
[9:58]for the best.
[10:00]stupid thing to say when really awful things happen,
[10:02]but it's really not, you know,
[10:04]because something good is going to always come.
[10:07]Maybe not from that one thing,
[10:09]but you always have the ability to make something
[10:12]good happen again, no matter how bad you mess up.
[10:16]Oh, yes, it's very personal.
[10:19]So, Sonali, when did you start writing?
[10:22]Like, when did you know you wanted to be a novelist?
[10:25]Have you always loved to write?
[10:27]Like, how did you embark on this part of the career
[10:30]and the business of writing?
[10:31]So, I've always loved to write.
[10:34]Since I was a very little girl,
[10:35]in fact, I think, you know, there's the story in my family
[10:37]where I was doing my math homework,
[10:39]and this was back in kindergarten,
[10:41]and instead of doing my worksheet,
[10:43]I was writing couplets about the cover of the worksheet,
[10:47]you know, the plus and minus sign,
[10:48]then I was making up these little poems based on that,
[10:51]and instead of yelling at me for not doing my homework,
[10:53]my mom got on the phone with her sisters,
[10:56]you know, and raved about how only you should read these cute poems
[10:59]in Ali wrote, which explains a lot.
[11:01]And so, so I think one of my oldest memories,
[11:03]and a lot of my coping mechanisms as a child
[11:06]were always related to writing.
[11:08]So, I always kind of, you know, identified as a writer,
[11:12]growing up, I, you know, wasn't,
[11:14]it wasn't something that was deemed a career
[11:18]that you could use to feed yourself,
[11:20]and it was very sensually not deemed so,
[11:22]because it is a hard career to, you know,
[11:25]to use to feed yourself, it takes blood sweat and tears,
[11:29]and even then it doesn't happen for a lot of people.
[11:31]So that was wise, you know,
[11:33]so I went to architecture school,
[11:34]I have several degrees and things,
[11:36]and I have worked with many things,
[11:37]but I always, this was the overriding dream.
[11:41]And I think I really got obsessed about it,
[11:44]or it became a thing that I thought I really wanted to do
[11:47]after I had, okay.
[11:50]So, this is the drama that I was talking to you about,
[11:54]the Bollywood style drama, this is about 10 years ago,
[11:57]I got TV, so I was quarantined, you know,
[12:00]for it was six weeks, 10 weeks.
[12:04]So, I was basically stuck in the home
[12:06]for a very long time,
[12:08]and feeling very sorry for myself.
[12:10]And I had been trying to write,
[12:12]I had already gotten into the whole,
[12:14]I'm going to write a novel someday,
[12:16]and I was trying to write a very complicated novel,
[12:18]and I'm really failing at it,
[12:20]and I had become this big, again, you know,
[12:23]this big thing that I didn't know how to do,
[12:25]and then when I got sick,
[12:26]a close friend said to me,
[12:28]well, why don't you write something you love?
[12:31]Why don't you write something you'd love to read?
[12:33]And I had this love story sitting in my head,
[12:35]and it just poured right out of me.
[12:37]And I think, you know, those three months
[12:39]when I was stuck at home,
[12:42]I kind of fell in love with the story,
[12:44]and wrote it, and from that point on,
[12:46]I became obsessed with publishing it.
[12:48]And of course, the publishing journey is a whole, you know,
[12:52]a different piece from the writing journey.
[12:55]And so it took me, you know,
[12:57]a good two years to finish that novel
[12:59]and other two years to sell it.
[13:01]And that's basically where it started,
[13:03]and once I had gotten, you know,
[13:05]once you have created a world and a character,
[13:08]and been part of that magic,
[13:10]I think it's impossible to back away from it,
[13:14]or that was how I felt.
[13:16]So what advice do you have then to aspiring authors
[13:20]who don't maybe have TB and can't dedicate themselves?
[13:24]Sorry, although I feel like, you know,
[13:26]as a society now, we have all been through,
[13:29]in part, the experience that must have been so unique
[13:32]to you and just so awful and isolating at the time.
[13:35]Yes, unfortunately, yes.
[13:39]But of course, when it becomes a community experience,
[13:42]it's a whole different thing,
[13:43]but let's talk about the writing advice.
[13:46]Yes.
[13:47]I do want to stop and say
[13:50]that it wasn't, you know, those three months were just
[13:52]the time that I vomited that story out, right?
[13:56]So it was not anywhere near ready for public consumption.
[14:00]So it wasn't like I got those three months
[14:02]I wrote that story and I was done.
[14:04]I did have, you know, at the time,
[14:06]two children who were in elementary and middle school
[14:09]or husband who traveled, you know, five days a week
[14:13]of large extended family, you know,
[14:16]so very full life.
[14:17]And if you love to do this thing,
[14:20]you have to start becoming very focused
[14:24]on what you're willing to drop off your plate
[14:26]because, you know, because you do have to,
[14:29]I mean, because we don't have,
[14:31]we're not going to be quarantined forever
[14:33]and it's not going to be, you know,
[14:36]and none of us want to be.
[14:37]So this is never going to be time
[14:40]and isolation is never going to be handed to you.
[14:42]It is something that you have to choose
[14:44]and curate your life to make space for that.
[14:47]So that's the first thing.
[14:48]And then one of my favorite quotes is,
[14:51]if you can stop writing, you should.
[14:53]So I do believe that, you know,
[14:56]that the only reason anyone should really be doing this
[14:59]is because it's such a hard-wrenching
[15:03]and hard thing to do in the first place
[15:05]is if you're doing it for any reason other than the fact
[15:09]that you really simply cannot not do it,
[15:12]then it's going to be that much, I think,
[15:14]more, you know, off uphill battle.
[15:17]Why would you want to do that?
[15:19]So my advice is a learning how to distribute your energy
[15:25]and learning how to focus your time
[15:28]and making space for this thing
[15:30]which needs a huge amount of emotional energy
[15:33]even more than time because you could be sitting.
[15:36]I mean, and one thing that these past months have taught me
[15:40]is that isolation and solitude don't equal productivity.
[15:43]Productivity is a factor of how you manage your mental
[15:48]and emotional energy for a creative endeavor, right?
[15:52]So managing that because we all also live our lives.
[15:57]And without lives, there is no,
[15:58]you can't create meaningful story.
[16:01]So you have to find that balance of what you're willing
[16:04]to let go of in terms of your time and energy
[16:07]and what you're willing to focus on.
[16:09]And I think once you have learned that,
[16:12]then most everything else follows is what I want to say.
[16:17]All right, I definitely need to be a little more conscious
[16:19]of how I'm expanding my energy.
[16:21]That's my main takeaway.
[16:22]Now, it's not like this.
[16:25]I'm great at it either, it's a day to day struggle.
[16:28]But so I found like I got this, but I don't.
[16:33]Haha, well, at least you know what you're working on.
[16:36]That always makes it better.
[16:39]Well, Sonali, thank you so much.
[16:41]Thanks for coming out.
[16:42]Moms don't have time to read books.
[16:43]Thanks for sharing recipe for persuasion
[16:46]and all of your great stuff.
[16:48]So thank you.
[16:49]Thank you so much, Vibe.
[16:50]It's a great show.
[16:51]And thanks so much for all the support and stay safe.
[16:55]Thank you.
[16:56]Thank you, too.
[16:57]Bye-bye.
[16:58]Thanks for listening to a beach reads Wednesday episode
[17:01]from my big July book blast.
[17:04]I hope you've enjoyed it.
[17:05]And I hope you've enjoyed getting
[17:06]to know some of these amazing authors.
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[17:11]Moms don't have time to read books.
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[17:27]Thanks so much to page one books for sponsoring today's episode.
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[17:32]at page one books.com.
[17:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[17:37]for the sound editing.
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[17:40]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
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