Leah Franqui, MOTHER LAND
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[1:09]needs a treat without a long spring. PageOneBooks.com. This is Day Five, the last day of this week
[1:16]for my July book blast. And today is Fiction Friday. I'll be releasing a few episodes of
[1:22]novels that I think are pretty awesome. And can't wait to introduce you to these authors.
[1:26]I'm doing the July book blast, because I interviewed a lot of people during quarantine,
[1:30]and the books came out during quarantine. And I would love them to get the airtime they need now
[1:35]to get the word out. Also, a lot of these books are great beach reads. And if you have any time this
[1:40]summer, I would love for you to hear more from these authors directly. So please enjoy Fiction Friday
[1:46]and stay tuned. This whole week was memoir Monday, debut Tuesday, beach reads Wednesday,
[1:51]Thrilling Thursday, and now today, Fiction Friday. I hope you've had a chance to listen to
[1:56]a few this week. And enjoy this one by Leah Frankie is the author of Motherland, a novel.
[2:02]Leah is a graduate of Yale University and received an MFA at NYU Tisch. Her first novel,
[2:08]America for Beginners, was an indie next pick, a Puerto Rican Jewish native of Philadelphia.
[2:14]Frankie now lives with her Kolkata born husband in Mumbai.
[2:18]Welcome, Leah. Thanks so much for coming on Moms. Don't have time to read books.
[2:21]Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
[2:24]I'm so excited to talk to you about Motherland, which was so well written by the way. I loved
[2:30]how you did it. Like the immediacy of everything, how you're like in her brain from the minute
[2:36]the novel opens, you're immediately relating. Anybody who's had a mother-in-law can relate and
[2:41]not to say anything ill about my mother-in-law. But just like, you know, I've now had two
[2:45]mother-in-laws and they're both great. But you know, anyway, I love how you just threw the reader
[2:50]right in there and like immediately related and I just love books to start like that.
[2:54]So anyway. Oh, thanks so much.
[2:58]Anyway, so will you please tell us, and there's what Motherland is about and then what inspired you
[3:02]to write it? Absolutely. So Motherland is about a young woman, Rachel, who moves to India with
[3:09]her Indian born husband. She's hoping that the experience will give her a life of sort of a new
[3:16]start and adventure. She's a lost in her life and hoping this sort of big change to a country
[3:21]she's never been to will spark something for her. When she moves to India, she's pretty overwhelmed
[3:28]and she's even more overwhelmed when her mother-in-law decides to leave her father-in-law in her life
[3:32]in Calcutta and comes and moves in with Rachel and her husband in Mumbai. She's even more
[3:37]thrown when her husband has to go away for work and she's stuck with this woman. She's
[3:41]no very well. In the city, she doesn't know. In the country, in a culture, she doesn't know.
[3:45]And the clash between them about how to live life in Mumbai and how to be in the world eventually
[3:51]turns into a friendship that benefits them both. I love how in the beginning when the Mother-in-law
[3:57]shows up on the stoop and she takes her the suitcase inside for her Mother-in-law. And she
[4:02]thinks if I was like, maybe this was it, maybe this was the moment. What if I hadn't rather
[4:06]seen the suitcase? I feel like this is what I always do in my head. What if that one thing
[4:10]had been different, right? I know. It was kind of like looking back and be like that was the moment.
[4:14]I could have changed it all. I do that too. So I think I put that in that character.
[4:19]I figured. I figured. So how did you come up with this story? What made you write this?
[4:26]Well, this story came out of a lot of life experience and a lot of imagination. So it's sort of
[4:32]both in equal kind of measure, I guess. I live in Mumbai. I moved to Mumbai with my Indian
[4:38]born husband who also happens to be from Calcutta. I guess in 2015. So before that my Mother-in-law
[4:46]had come to stay with us for about a month, right when we got married and moved in together.
[4:52]We kind of did both at the same time. And I'd never been to India before I moved to India. I
[4:57]didn't know a lot about India before I met my in-laws. The whole process was condensed by being
[5:02]sort of international, you know, an international family. And I did have this incident where I had
[5:08]like a moment of incredible anxiety, which is where a lot of my work comes from, I think,
[5:13]where I was in my Brooklyn apartment and my tiny Brooklyn apartment. And my mother-in-law had
[5:18]this fight with my father-in-law with a phone. And my husband and Hindi was talking to her.
[5:23]And I didn't understand what they were saying. And then he turned to me and he was like,
[5:26]mom's going to stay another month. And I was like, what's that? She didn't, it was sort of a joke.
[5:35]They were kind of like trolling my father-in-law. But I had this moment of like, what if she just
[5:40]stays forever? Like what if my Mother-in-law just moves in with me and lives with me forever. And like,
[5:44]this is my life now. And then I moved to Mumbai and got to know my mom's letter by visiting
[5:49]them in Calcutta and had this whole life experience of moving to Mumbai for similar but different
[5:54]reasons than my protagonist in this novel. But faced a lot of the dislocation and isolation and sort
[6:00]of culture shock and trying to figure out how to navigate, you know, my needs, my identity,
[6:07]all the me in this new sort of collective country filled with so many cultures, so many things
[6:14]that were so unfamiliar. And I had so many anxieties about, you know, what this international move
[6:21]would do to my marriage, what it would do to me. I have had incredible experiences in India. I've
[6:25]had difficult experiences in India. It's challenging. It's been wonderful for me. It's been wonderful
[6:30]for my marriage. But I do write a lot from the what if. And like, what if it hadn't been? What if
[6:36]it hadn't made my relationship stronger? What if it had kind of defeated me in these other ways?
[6:40]What if my Mother-in-law lived with me forever? You know? And so, spinning out those anxieties into
[6:45]fantasies into new characters and new people is kind of where the novel came from. This is not my
[6:50]this woman is not my Mother-in-law. I'm not Rachel. But there are elements of sort of the real
[6:54]experience of living in Mumbai, integrating into an Indian family who have been nothing but incredibly
[7:01]wonderful and accepting of me, and also sort of being challenged in terms of what I thought the
[7:06]world was living in one country versus sort of the wonderful perspective, breaking thing that living
[7:13]another country does. It sort of comes from all of that and more. In Mumbai, do you live in the
[7:20]area where you can smell the fish? Oh, yeah. I do. I live in like a neighborhood above the
[7:25]neighborhood I set it in. But this whole area is kind of along part of the coast. And so,
[7:31]there's these fishermen who drive the fish out, like along that coast. If you live anywhere
[7:37]near the coast, there's fishermen along it in Mumbai and you'll smell that at some point.
[7:42]I love how that comes. Your character is like a alarm clock, but it's five o'clock basically
[7:46]like the smells. And that's real. Yeah, I would be I work from home a lot and I would like
[7:53]lose track of time and then suddenly be like, oh, I guess it's five o'clock. There's like this
[7:57]neighborhood ice cream truck where we are right now. And that comes by between five and five
[8:02]30 every day. And it's the same thing. And like, oh my gosh, I'm like, I have to get up. I have to get
[8:07]off of my desk. Time to go for a walk. It's going to be dark. I'd better move for the day.
[8:12]Yeah. So I love those like external markers of time. And you have a really interesting
[8:18]background where you're half Jewish and half Puerto Rican. Like, how did your identity
[8:23]combining those two pieces of I mean, combining your parents, essentially? How did they inform
[8:29]your own sort of sense of identity in the world? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So my father is his parents
[8:35]immigrated from Puerto Rico or migrated from Puerto Rico in the 19 in like 49 50, which was like
[8:41]part of this wave of migration from Puerto Rico. And then my mom's parents are a mix of like first
[8:48]and third generation immigrants from what is now Russia and my grandmother was like directly
[8:53]from Russia, but she had to grow up in Tehran. And I think that growing up that didn't seem like
[8:59]that crazy of a mix. I think because I grew up on the east coast in a school in an
[9:04]environment where a lot of people were some kind of mix, I think that I didn't know too many
[9:09]people who had like a Jewish Latino mix, but I've met them over the years. It's, you know, again,
[9:14]not the, you know, I think mixture in where I grew up in the United States seemed more normal than
[9:20]like being of one thing. But I do think that the negotiation of identity as I got older as I got
[9:25]into high school and college and the idea of what it meant to be enough of anything became a
[9:32]big part of how I got into writing, actually, because I think that the idea of being Puerto Rican
[9:38]enough or what enough meant or being Latina and what that meant to me. And also being Jewish
[9:44]and what that meant to me deciding that I need to start taking responsibility for my own
[9:48]religious philosophy. Like if I was going to perpetuate a belief in Judaism, it couldn't just be
[9:53]because I'd grown up going to synagogue, I'd grown up with my mother telling me to go to synagogue.
[9:57]It had to be something I started choosing or not.
[10:00]not choosing as an adult.
[10:01]So I think that college was a time when I really decided
[10:04]that that was important for me to explore
[10:06]what either of these two things meant for me
[10:08]and how I was going to deal with them
[10:11]and writing became a great way to do that.
[10:13]I came into fiction as a dramatic writer
[10:16]and a lot of the work that I wrote before
[10:19]and during graduate school talked about
[10:21]a relationship to Puerto Rico or a relationship
[10:23]to being Latina, the way I understood my family,
[10:27]trying to come to terms with my large Puerto Rican family
[10:30]and sort of the life I'd spent visiting them
[10:32]and connecting with them but being separate from them
[10:34]and also sort of coming to terms with family history
[10:38]and all sides.
[10:39]I think that the interesting thing about moving
[10:42]to a third party country that has no context
[10:45]for either of those things is that then your identity
[10:48]gets reimagined again by the people you meet
[10:50]because when I first met my in-laws,
[10:53]they had no context for Jewish, certainly.
[10:56]They had no context for Puerto Rican.
[10:58]I definitely sort of live as white, right?
[11:02]I come from fairly European Puerto Rican stock,
[11:04]although of course there's a ton of mixing
[11:05]and I present as white, I am white.
[11:07]So all of those things that had kind of made up
[11:10]my identity in the States then became kind of,
[11:14]not erased but totally not as contextualized in India.
[11:19]So then I had a whole new identity
[11:21]as being a white person in India
[11:23]which is added a third layer of information
[11:25]about myself and how I operate in the world.
[11:27]So I don't know, it's been a journey,
[11:29]it continues to be a journey.
[11:31]I guess it's taught me that no matter how much you self define,
[11:36]there's so much about how other people see you
[11:39]that you can't really control.
[11:41]And so you just have to recognize what you've come
[11:46]to terms with as yourself and do your best to be that, I guess.
[11:50]Yeah, you have to sort of have a really strong,
[11:53]fundamental sense of who you are,
[11:55]regardless of what your background and your parents
[11:58]and the shade of your skin and all the rats.
[12:01]And like I am, you know, I am who I am,
[12:04]whether I'm dropped down in the middle of a vegetable market
[12:07]in Mumbai or I'm like on the subway in New York
[12:10]or whatever else, it's like otherwise,
[12:13]I mean, it's just so confusing.
[12:15]Yeah, and you let the world tell you what to be.
[12:17]I think that's something that we think about
[12:19]in the US is like what I carry with me
[12:21]and what's important for me to bring everywhere I go.
[12:24]And that's a great thing about immigrant countries
[12:27]is that you have to personally decide
[12:30]what matters to you and what you want to carry with you.
[12:33]Rather than let your environment decide that for you, right?
[12:37]So, you know, I've hosted a stator every year,
[12:40]I've been in Mumbai for a passover
[12:42]because I realize, wow, that's really important to me.
[12:45]You know, that's an important thing for me to do
[12:47]for me to celebrate.
[12:48]Even though there's no resources for that,
[12:49]there's no structure around that.
[12:51]It's just something that matters to me.
[12:53]And so, you know, you can learn who you are.
[12:56]You know, what is there, is there a Jewish community
[12:58]in Mumbai?
[12:59]So there used to be larger Jewish communities
[13:02]in a lot of major Indian cities,
[13:03]including Mumbai.
[13:04]There's a couple of really beautiful historic synagogues.
[13:06]It's really decreased since independence for many reasons.
[13:10]There are still a couple of active synagogues
[13:12]and there is a habod house.
[13:14]And I have been to services at one of the really beautiful
[13:17]historic synagogues in Mumbai.
[13:19]It's like a bad daddy.
[13:20]It was historically a bad daddy Jewish population.
[13:24]So that's like really interesting,
[13:25]really interesting migration pattern,
[13:27]really interesting food.
[13:28]It's people in Dreno, not Yiddish, they're Sephardic,
[13:31]but it's really tiny.
[13:32]So I have met maybe like one or two sort of Indian Jews
[13:36]in Mumbai.
[13:37]So interesting.
[13:38]Yeah.
[13:39]The Seder is such a special moment
[13:41]because you're forced to always think
[13:43]about all the people around the world
[13:45]doing the exact same thing.
[13:46]And now, when I have my next Seder,
[13:48]I can make about you and in that,
[13:51]like, because it really is like all over the place.
[13:53]Yeah.
[13:54]It's very special in that way.
[13:56]No, no, no, no.
[13:57]Look, right.
[13:58]Tell me a little more about the process
[13:59]of writing Motherland.
[14:00]How long did it take you to write?
[14:01]Like where were you over there?
[14:03]Or like tell me when and where you wrote it
[14:05]and all of that good stuff?
[14:06]Absolutely.
[14:07]So I'm a big drafter.
[14:10]I've realized that over time
[14:12]and I have come to terms with that as that's my process.
[14:15]So I'm a fast writer who writes many drafts
[14:19]and that's just, I guess, so far that's what served me.
[14:23]I was already living in Mumbai
[14:24]when I started writing Motherland.
[14:26]I started writing it about, I guess, six months
[14:30]before my first novel America for Beginners was released.
[14:34]So I worked on the first draft in Mumbai
[14:38]and then I was really lucky I got a writer's residency
[14:41]in Italy, which was an incredible experience
[14:44]and I worked on the second draft there,
[14:47]which was also very interesting to work on this novel
[14:50]that's very much set and embedded in Mumbai
[14:52]in sort of an idyllic vineyard in Italy.
[14:54]That was like real positive dissonance there,
[14:57]but like incredible.
[14:58]And then I worked subsequent drafts
[15:01]with the help of my incredible agent Julia Cardin
[15:04]who's always just so great at really seeing the things
[15:07]that I'm trying to do and failing at doing in my novels
[15:09]and helping me actually do them.
[15:11]So I would say, and then eventually
[15:13]my, you know, we sent this to my editor
[15:15]and I shall of course she had incredible feedback,
[15:17]incredible edits as Rachel always does.
[15:20]And by the time, I think it finally kind of sold, I guess.
[15:25]It had been about a year that I'd been working on it.
[15:29]And then of course there are subsequent drafts
[15:30]after my editor agreed to publish it with hers.
[15:34]So I think that it probably all told, you know,
[15:38]sort of the first time I put fingers
[15:41]to computer versus copy, you know,
[15:43]final copy probably around a year and nine, 10 months
[15:47]about two years.
[15:48]It's not bad.
[15:49]No, really.
[15:50]I really passed on the continuum.
[15:52]Yeah, I think this is a book that really
[15:54]came out of me fairly quickly.
[15:56]I knew these two characters really well.
[15:59]I had an idea of the story.
[16:01]It's really about these two people.
[16:03]So plotting, you know, the intricate plotting
[16:05]that you sometimes do was not as much of the kind of labor
[16:09]as like, how do I most authentically really layer these people
[16:13]such that they both feel complete and total
[16:16]and really true.
[16:18]And now that it's out in the world,
[16:22]are you already attacking a new project
[16:24]or are you focused mostly on publicity
[16:27]and all the rest that comes with releasing a book
[16:29]into the world, especially during this time?
[16:31]Boy, while during this time as a whole other, you know,
[16:34]kind of, you know, I think that all of us in the world
[16:37]are like, what are we doing during this time?
[16:38]And I think that all of us creatively are like,
[16:41]is, you know, there's a real sort of,
[16:43]we're all having parallel experiences of like,
[16:44]has this made us incredibly productive
[16:46]and is this like a creatively rich time
[16:48]or just a creatively draining time
[16:50]where that's just not possible?
[16:51]And those are both like totally fair responses.
[16:55]You know, there's no, there's no like right way
[16:57]to be an artist.
[16:58]There's certainly no right way to be an artist
[16:59]or person right now.
[17:00]I'm always working on a lot of new things.
[17:03]I think that I, my husband likes to joke,
[17:07]I met my husband in graduate school for dramatic writing
[17:09]and one of the arts of dramatic writing is distillation.
[17:13]And when I got into fiction,
[17:15]it was such an incredible release
[17:18]because you don't have to be as distilled in a fiction.
[17:22]And my husband jokes that of course I've become a novelist
[17:24]because I have so much to say.
[17:26]And he's right in many ways.
[17:29]So I do, I have so many stories I'm interested in
[17:31]and I have so many things that I love writing.
[17:33]So right now I am working on a new, a new novel.
[17:37]I'm working on several TV scripts.
[17:40]I finished the first draft of a new play.
[17:42]I've been working on for a long time.
[17:43]So I think that I'm really motivated
[17:45]by having multiple stories happening at once.
[17:48]They lift the weight of wanting to say everything
[17:51]in one place on the other.
[17:53]You know, like actually for me spreading it out,
[17:56]freeze the work up to be what it wants to be
[17:58]rather than me trying to cram everything I'm thinking
[18:01]into one place at one time.
[18:03]So I'm always working on a lot of things.
[18:06]That's awesome.
[18:07]Do you have any advice to aspiring authors?
[18:11]Oh, boy, so much.
[18:12]And then also like who am I to give advice?
[18:14]I feel bad, right?
[18:15]Both things are very strong.
[18:16]It's okay.
[18:17]You are completely, I give advice.
[18:21]I am holding your novel in my hand.
[18:23]So that means that you can give advice.
[18:26]Well, one of the things I often credit pursuing training
[18:30]in dramatic writing, doing for me as a novelist,
[18:33]is that whether you do a program for it or not,
[18:37]I think the active pursuing dramatic writing pushes you
[18:41]very hard to be unprecious because you write a lot
[18:45]of things into the void.
[18:47]You are encouraged in that field to write a lot of things
[18:50]and then discard them and write something new.
[18:52]Often in a dramatic writer's portfolio,
[18:54]they might have anywhere from five to 10 scripts
[18:58]that they've worked on.
[18:59]And you know, say you're a TV writer.
[19:01]One of those might get you onto a writer's room
[19:03]and none of them will ever actually be made
[19:05]that the samples you made that you hoped would go somewhere,
[19:07]but they didn't and then you move on and you move on.
[19:09]And there's a lot of throwing things out and moving on
[19:12]and throwing and moving.
[19:13]And I think that that's especially in more commercial programs
[19:16]which I would say NYU is both artistic
[19:18]and a commercial program.
[19:18]That's like graduate school I went to.
[19:20]There is this push towards anti-preciousness.
[19:24]And I think that there's a time in your process
[19:26]to fall in love with what you have to say.
[19:28]I do it every time.
[19:29]But there's also a time to throw a lot out the door,
[19:32]especially if you're a writer like me.
[19:33]And so I think the best advice I have is just
[19:36]there's this impulse to write one thing
[19:39]and put so much weight and love into it
[19:42]that the idea of writing another thing
[19:44]feels like a horrible waste or incredible pain.
[19:47]And what you might end up with is one very beautiful thing
[19:50]that nobody wants to publish
[19:52]or serves you at a certain point in time
[19:55]and doesn't sort of serve you later.
[19:57]And so I think that the best advice I have is just
[20:00]to write lots of things, right, lots of stories.
[20:04]Yes, treasure, of course, treasure
[20:05]that big novel inside of you that takes 10 years to write,
[20:09]but you know, one of the things that writers who write
[20:12]for a lot like spend a lot more time on a project
[20:14]than maybe I have right now is that they have also had
[20:18]10 other things they were writing in that time.
[20:20]You know, it's when we talk about a writer
[20:22]who spent 10 years on a book, they've often written
[20:24]and done so many other things that kept fueling that,
[20:27]kept fueling that one big thing.
[20:28]So the myth of, you know, I worked on a novel
[20:31]for 15 years and then it was one's way kind of, you know,
[20:35]I think it tricks people into feeling that
[20:37]all of their mental energy should be spent on this one thing
[20:39]and then it'll be perfect.
[20:41]And maybe there are people who work like that
[20:42]and that's incredible,
[20:43]but for me, the most fruitful thing to keep myself writing,
[20:46]keep myself excited because you want to fall in love,
[20:48]you want to be excited about the work,
[20:50]is to write multiple things at once
[20:53]and let yourself kind of remember that you have more
[20:56]than one story in you.
[20:57]I love that.
[20:58]Well, Leah, thank you so much.
[21:00]I love like just the fact that we can talk across
[21:02]the entire planet, basically, about your book
[21:05]and it like words can just unite us so much.
[21:08]I mean, it's like, it's so great.
[21:10]It just feels so neat to be able to do this
[21:13]from where you are and have your words like here in my home
[21:16]and you're so far away.
[21:17]I don't know.
[21:18]No, I love that.
[21:19]I love that about story.
[21:20]You know, when I first met my husband,
[21:22]we were talking about this and he had this anxiety
[21:24]about the kind of stories he wanted to tell.
[21:26]Like, who's gonna care?
[21:27]You know, who's gonna care about this story,
[21:29]sent in Calcutta, we're in a grad school in New York.
[21:31]No one's gonna, you know, who's gonna care?
[21:33]And I asked him, well, what are some of the stories
[21:35]that you've loved the best?
[21:36]Do they all come from exactly your life perspective?
[21:39]And he was like, no, you know, I love the blue, white,
[21:43]and red trilogy.
[21:44]I love old boy.
[21:45]I love all of these things that come out of my context,
[21:48]but help me see something in my context.
[21:50]I think that's the incredible thing about story.
[21:52]That's awesome.
[21:53]Thank you.
[21:54]Thanks for coming on the show.
[21:55]Thank you so much for having me.
[21:56]It's been such a pleasure.
[21:57]I can't wait to read what you have come up,
[22:00]and I have to go back now and read my,
[22:02]I never read America for a beginner,
[22:03]so I'm gonna go back and read that.
[22:04]And thank you for your next batch.
[22:08]Thank you so much.
[22:10]Thank you for having me.
[22:11]It's been an incredible pleasure.
[22:12]Bye.
[22:13]Thanks so much to listening to fiction Friday,
[22:16]part of the July book blast of Mom's No Time to Read Books.
[22:20]I hope that you found some really great reads this week,
[22:23]all five days I've launched tons of episodes
[22:26]so that I can entertain you and you can connect with stories
[22:29]and just feel a little better in the world knowing
[22:32]that these stories exist and that these authors are out there.
[22:34]So I hope you enjoyed all of these fiction Friday episodes
[22:39]and that you had a great day.
[22:40]And I hope you have a really great weekend.
[22:42]And come back next week because I'm doing one more week,
[22:45]one more five days, I should say,
[22:47]of another July book blast week,
[22:50]and I'll have five new fun days then
[22:52]and then back to normal.
[22:53]But anyway, you can have a little, like,
[22:55]binge podcast fest or something.
[22:57]Anyway, have a great weekend.
[23:00]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[23:02]Mom's don't have time to read books.
[23:03]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram
[23:07]at zippyowens and at mom's don't have time to read books
[23:10]and sign up for my mailing list at zippyowens.com
[23:14]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[23:16]Thanks a lot.
[23:17]Thanks so much to page one books for sponsoring today's episode.
[23:20]I hope you'll all check out my summer beach bundle
[23:22]at page one books.com.
[23:24]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[23:27]for the Sound Editing.
[23:28]And thank you to Morningmoon Productions
[23:30]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[23:32]Thanks for listening.
[23:33]You can always email me at zippyowens.com.