Marisa Porges, WHAT GIRLS NEED
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[1:51]Dr. Amara's support is known for her work on gender and education, leadership, and national security,
[1:57]and is the author of what girls need, how to raise bold, courageous, and resilient women.
[2:01]She is currently the eighth head of school of the Baldwin School, 130-year-old,
[2:06]all-girls school outside of Philadelphia, that's renowned for academic excellence and
[2:10]prepares leaders, girls to be leaders and changemakers, and by the way, Dr. Portis actually went
[2:14]there. Prior to joining Baldwin, Dr. Portis was a leading counter-terrorism and national
[2:19]security expert. Most recently, she served in the Obama White House as a senior policy advisor
[2:25]and White House fellow at the National Economic Council. She also served as a research fellow at the Harvard
[2:30]Kennedy School and at the Council on Foreign Relations. She worked as a counter-terrorism policy
[2:35]advisor in the U.S. Department of the Treasury and as a foreign affairs advisor in the U.S. Department
[2:39]of Defense. In all these roles, she stood out as one of a few if not the only women present at
[2:45]any given time. Dr. Portis started her career on active duty in the U.S. Navy, flying jets
[2:51]off carriers as a naval flight officer. She earned a BA in geophysics from Harvard and MSC
[2:56]from the London School of Economics and a PhD in war studies from King's College London.
[3:02]She's won at a million awards, and she currently lives in Philadelphia with her family.
[3:07]Welcome, Dr. Portis. Thank you so much for coming on Momstone. Have time to read books.
[3:11]Thank you for having me. It'd be great to be here. What girls need? This is like the ultimate
[3:16]question. I think it's on all our minds, right? All the time. All the time. What do I even need?
[3:22]I don't know. It starts from thinking what I wish I had, what I wish my friends and I
[3:29]when we think about the real world, and we want to give it to the next generation. Our girls,
[3:32]our daughters, our kids. Totally. So your career has been so interesting. I can't believe you
[3:38]were like a naval pilot and you were like the Navy, I don't even know how to say it,
[3:43]naval Air Force pilot or you were and you were in the White House and now you're running a school
[3:48]and you're just like the most badass person. I feel like I've ever interviewed. It's so cool.
[3:53]Well, thank you. I'll take badass. I think, you know, badass is what I hope we all realize how
[3:58]badass we are, right? Because we all have our badass moments, but I did have a choose my own
[4:02]adventure of a career, so there's that too. And it was so great in the book. How you just sprinkle
[4:06]it all the way through. Like now you're in the cockpit and you are like banging on the fuel
[4:11]gauge and you relate this somehow to like the board games that I should be buying for my daughter
[4:15]and my completely like boring, standard life. So thank you for distilling your experience
[4:21]down to help other people there. Oh my god. I think we all have these fun stories, right? We
[4:25]did think about it in new ways. It was fun in the book to be able to share some of them with
[4:29]readers. So before I go into some of like the tips and advice and everything, what do you think it
[4:34]was about your upbringing that got you to this place? Like what did your parents do, right? Like
[4:39]what led you to accomplish all of this stuff, do you think? Do you think it started with your
[4:44]upbringing or not? Oh, one hundred percent. And I think this is part of the lesson that I realized
[4:50]recently, to be honest, I think it came to, you know, finally the aha moment when I was here
[4:54]at running a school. So I run an all-girl school now and it's actually the school that I grew up at.
[4:58]So I went here. So part of it was coming back and then seeing through a new lens as to what
[5:04]young girls can be given and what we need to do from an early age to really help them realize
[5:09]they're badass self. And so I do think it happens young, right? I think it was that moment where
[5:13]my dad, you know, helped me brush my knees off or whatever it was when I was, you know,
[5:16]fell in the playing field. It said, no, no, go back out, right? Do it again, compete, be healthy,
[5:21]you know, enjoy competing. You know, the idea that I want to fly for the Navy when I was a kid,
[5:26]they get the lies are aged. It was a top gun, right? So for those who were watching top gun, right,
[5:31]that moment, I wanted to be Maverick. That was my thing. And it was an era when the rules still
[5:37]hadn't been changed and women couldn't even fly in combat. That wasn't mentioned. It was just,
[5:42]okay, go for it. Why not? And it turned out I was too short for the cockpit. So I had to be
[5:47]goose not Maverick. There is that. But we, you know, we figure out a way and I just, no, this is what
[5:52]I've been encouraged to do. And you know, it is part of who I am. And I think I see it now in
[5:57]little ways for young girls, particularly elementary school girls, right? It was moments where
[6:02]we say, no, no, you can do this, right? We want them to, you know, puff up their chest and say,
[6:07]I got this, right? And, you know, I say there's a one picture that was on the wall of our school where
[6:13]a girl was drew a picture of herself and said, no one will say no, right? And you think,
[6:17]oh my goodness, her parents, poor parents, when are she the teenager particularly, right? But
[6:22]I, you know, I wish I was thinking I know what's going to say no when I was an adult all the time,
[6:26]right? And I've had my moments where I was like, ah, it didn't go for that job. I didn't go for that
[6:30]moment. And I could just go on and on about how I think we need to start this early for our kids.
[6:35]Yes. No, it's so important. And it's so smart to give the parents the tools now to make sure it
[6:39]all happens. Just one last question on your bio. So how did you end up back at your school after
[6:44]the way your career was going? Like what made you come back to Baldwin?
[6:48]I know that was, that's the crazy one. So I had the good fortune of when I was in the White
[6:53]House and I got a phone call one day literally when I was working in the West Wing and they,
[6:56]they rang up and I thought they were going to ask for advice or for money. So I think there's
[7:01]that, right? But no, it was the head had just retired and they wanted to see if I was interested
[7:07]in leading the community that had given me so much. So I threw my hat in the ring again because
[7:11]I'd been taught to be a healthy competitor, had no actual thought that they would take me,
[7:15]but look, crazy thing is I'm now leading a school through a pandemic. So there's that,
[7:19]right? But you know, I think it's just a lesson to go for it, right? I think at the lesson that
[7:24]we all need to remind ourselves and remind our friends, I say this to my girlfriends all the time,
[7:29]just go for it, right? It doesn't matter how crazy it is. The things out of left field or
[7:33]sometimes those opportunities that take you directions you would never imagine or the most fun
[7:37]and impactful. So it's totally that lesson of like for me. This is the corollary of this is the
[7:42]just say yes, right? So one of the principles that I really responded to in your book is talking
[7:50]about how to make sure our daughters have a voice and how do they build that voice and hone that
[7:55]voice. And I mean, I feel like I could have used this when I was growing up. I feel like I was so shy
[7:59]and this was really hard for me to, you know, the situations when you're in the White House and
[8:03]Obama sitting there and you regret not speaking up like I was in far less, you know, 10 situations
[8:09]and you know, felt like I couldn't talk in work meetings and, you know, all the rest. So you
[8:14]had so much great advice for girls and how to really, how can we help them and all the rest. So
[8:21]what tell us like a few basics of how to start. And then I love like so many of your specific
[8:27]advice, like even ordering take out. So anyway, let's start from the broad and go down to more
[8:33]of the specific. Well, I think the broad is recognizing that these are our skills that, I mean,
[8:38]that I still struggle with some time and I have to remind myself to speak up in a meeting because
[8:42]it's maybe feel too natural to just wait for, wait for the perfect moment. There's never a perfect
[8:47]moment and we all for any, any woman out there know that a man isn't going to wait for the perfect
[8:51]moment. They're just going to talk, right? And we need to as well. We want our girls to,
[8:55]to remember that and practice it. And so it's about finding ways in little, every day ways to
[9:01]encourage our girls' voice and reinforce that her voice matters, right? And age appropriate
[9:06]way. It's not about speaking, speaking out inappropriately, but say no, we want to hear from you.
[9:11]You're either dinner table, making sure your daughter's speaking out when your son
[9:15]maybe is dominating the conversation. Even if it's an adult conversation, what does she think
[9:19]asking her to be involved? This idea that when you're ordering food and this is a lesson I
[9:24]took from one of our students, she remembers when she was a kid that her father used to make her
[9:28]order pizza when they were calling, right? Not reason not to use the app on your smartphone,
[9:34]but not her brother, but she would have to make the order because she didn't like doing it.
[9:38]It felt totally uncomfortable, right? And yet, okay, then she got older and she said, yeah,
[9:43]you know, it's not my favorite thing. I'm still an introvert, right? But I do it.
[9:47]I can know. I know I can do it. And so these are the safe little ways that we just teach our
[9:51]girls to practice that muscle memory, speaking out. So when they have their aha moment for their
[9:57]career or just that time when they want to tell their voice, they're
[10:00]boss, excuse me, what they need.
[10:02]They feel empowered to do so.
[10:03]It starts with Chinese food, apparently.
[10:05]It's apparently Chinese food, right?
[10:06]Or pizza or whatever, right?
[10:08]High, take your pick.
[10:09]Take your pick.
[10:11]And also how you suggest inviting debate
[10:13]that you should always debate every side
[10:16]and open it up for conversation and say, you know,
[10:20]should TikTok be allowed?
[10:21]Let's talk about it, right?
[10:23]Well, and these are funny things.
[10:24]I mean, again, it's not every day.
[10:26]You know, I think sometimes we make it about,
[10:27]it has to be all this.
[10:28]And so it becomes parenting, becomes overwhelming.
[10:31]But finding to a natural moment
[10:33]where you don't cut the debate off,
[10:35]where you encourage it to keep going.
[10:37]Frankly, it's a helpful way to fill time in the car
[10:40]when you're driving home from the game
[10:41]or something it feels endless.
[10:43]But it's also just a moment to help your daughter, again,
[10:47]realize that you care, that you want her to practice her voice,
[10:50]that it matters to you, you know,
[10:52]the number one role model in her life,
[10:54]and so that she's gonna say, yeah, no,
[10:56]I'm gonna do it other places as well.
[10:58]And even when you were like, don't ask like how a science today
[11:01]that you should say, what did you say in science class?
[11:04]And how did you handle that?
[11:05]And what questions did you ask?
[11:06]Like these are such great specific tips
[11:08]that are like not so hard to implement.
[11:10]Right, and so again, it did a little tweaks, right?
[11:12]The little things make a really big difference.
[11:14]And you know, hopefully it helps make parenting easier.
[11:17]One thing that I came upon as well is this idea
[11:19]of helping your daughter practice her ask.
[11:22]This idea that you want her to ask
[11:23]if you practice the negotiating.
[11:26]You know, the next time she asks for something,
[11:27]anything, even if you've decided what your answer
[11:29]is going to be, yes, I'm gonna let you have
[11:31]an overnight sleepover.
[11:32]Yes, we're gonna go to the amusement park.
[11:34]Yes, you're gonna, you know,
[11:35]get the thing that you've been asking for for ages.
[11:38]Say, huh, go back and make a pitch, right?
[11:41]Give me three reasons why.
[11:42]Come back in 30 minutes, come back in an hour,
[11:45]and make her practice the art of asking.
[11:47]And then again, regardless, you don't have to change
[11:49]your mind yet, the answer could still be no
[11:51]if that had been your parenting decision to start.
[11:53]But maybe you say, well, you know,
[11:56]the answer's no this time.
[11:57]Here's what work and here's what didn't when you pitched.
[11:59]Right, give her the little bit of feedback.
[12:00]I really liked when you did this
[12:03]or you used your motion well,
[12:04]or I got that, you know, PowerPoint was great.
[12:06]I had one kid who actually, a daughter at my girl
[12:09]rather at my school, showed me the pitch deck.
[12:11]She and her friend used to make PowerPoint deck.
[12:14]This is how clearly her parents will help to spend her time
[12:17]to give her something to do, make PowerPoint slideshows
[12:20]when they wanted to sleep over on a weeknight.
[12:22]And she showed me the, you know, pictures of the cupcakes
[12:26]they wanted to make and the movies they wanted to watch
[12:28]and the tent they wanted to build in the living room.
[12:30]And, you know, I don't know if they got there
[12:31]or Thursday night sleep over,
[12:33]but they just love the process.
[12:34]And candidly, it means better at this idea of the athlete.
[12:38]It actually comes to my office to ask me
[12:40]the head of the school for something
[12:41]that everyone else had said no to.
[12:43]I said no as well, but I reinforce that the asking was good, right?
[12:47]So it's what we want to see from our kids
[12:49]and our girls especially.
[12:50]My daughter did something similar with three friends
[12:52]and had her day camp because she was aging out
[12:54]and they wanted them to extend it.
[12:55]So the girls all got together
[12:57]and they put together this whole presentation
[12:59]and pitched it to the head of the camp
[13:00]and they extended it for the summer.
[13:02]Yeah, that's fantastic.
[13:04]And what a fabulous lesson to her
[13:05]because in that instance it went well, right?
[13:08]And she got this positive reinforcement.
[13:10]But I hope that you remind her of that.
[13:12]And when we get off our call today,
[13:14]say, hey, by the way, I was really proud of you for that.
[13:16]That was super cool.
[13:17]Like, do that more often.
[13:19]It's right.
[13:19]I should bring that back.
[13:20]Sounds like she's a great at it already.
[13:23]I remember as a kid, my curfew was so much lower
[13:26]than like everybody else's.
[13:27]So I went around and I called like every parent
[13:30]and asked what the curfew was
[13:31]and I made a whole spreadsheet.
[13:33]I mean, I didn't have Excel, of course, back then.
[13:35]But it was like kid's name, mom's name, phone number curfew.
[13:39]And I was like, look at this data.
[13:42]Mine is earlier.
[13:43]It's not safe.
[13:44]I will be having to get home by myself.
[13:46]And so she raised it.
[13:47]I don't know.
[13:48]Look at that analytics from an early age.
[13:49]That should be like, that's on your life resume 101.
[13:52]It's true.
[13:52]I've kind of forgot about it until now.
[13:54]But anyway, so this is the art of persuasion, right?
[13:57]It is such an important skill.
[13:59]And it's something that statistically women aren't
[14:01]as effective at.
[14:02]And it's part, I mean, it's not the reason why they're still
[14:04]a pay gap.
[14:05]But it's a, you know, it plays into the nature
[14:07]of how pay gaps continue and as well as other things
[14:10]that I think we all continue to see out there.
[14:13]So I just want to whatever we can do for the next generation
[14:15]so they don't face these same challenges.
[14:17]And you even pointed out how men have
[14:20]such a higher rate of interrupting women
[14:22]and how there was that one example in the boardroom
[14:25]where people got up and spoke.
[14:26]And finally, or maybe it was at Google, I guess,
[14:29]was it at Google?
[14:29]Let's tell them to use how to start.
[14:31]No, I mean, so there's countless examples.
[14:33]That was actually when I was, you know,
[14:35]it's funny when I was looking for stories to include in the book.
[14:37]And there's some places where you could see 100 examples
[14:40]of men interrupting women in work in, you know, public.
[14:45]The most crazy example was they've actually done a study
[14:48]at the Supreme Court.
[14:49]And that the female Supreme Court justices
[14:51]get interrupted more often.
[14:53]The males of Supreme Court justices.
[14:54]And you think the pinnacle of our judiciary system
[14:58]and the women are still getting interrupted more often.
[15:00]So, you know, and they've done studies actually in schools.
[15:03]And in co-ed environments, I have the good fortune
[15:05]of leading a girl's school now.
[15:07]But in co-ed environments, boys speak out
[15:10]and over and interrupt girls more often
[15:13]than, you know, the reverse.
[15:15]And you take that same young girl
[15:16]and you put her in a single sex environment,
[15:17]a single sex play group.
[15:18]And she will speak out and speak up as often
[15:21]as the little boy did when they were in class together.
[15:23]And so it's just, you know, we need to counter that, right?
[15:26]It's a social norm.
[15:27]And we know our girls have, you know,
[15:29]want to speak out and speak up.
[15:30]We just need to help them practice it.
[15:31]And you also talk a lot about fostering the competitive spirit
[15:34]and how sports play a big role for girls,
[15:37]especially because at least they get that experience
[15:39]on the field.
[15:40]And you give all these examples of leaders like Meg Whitman
[15:42]and others who are all, you know,
[15:44]she was playing with Cross and Squash at Princeton,
[15:45]which I didn't even know.
[15:46]So tell me about how sports fostering that love of sports
[15:50]can really help our girls too.
[15:51]So I think being competitive is something
[15:54]that in particular right now,
[15:55]I think a lot of parents shy away from.
[15:57]We think of competitiveness as like a bad thing.
[15:59]And it's a maladaptive behavior.
[16:01]And unfortunately, for our girls, a lot of times,
[16:04]they need that as well.
[16:05]I can't compete even the things I want to be good at
[16:08]because it's, I don't want to put my friends down.
[16:10]It's going to be embarrassing if I win, not if I lose.
[16:13]But if I win, and it's not just in sports field,
[16:15]it could be the spelling bee or the poetry contest
[16:17]or other places too.
[16:19]But any man or a woman, father or mother would say,
[16:22]you know, you got to be competitive in the real world.
[16:24]Right, it's to go for that job.
[16:25]It's to go for the apartment.
[16:26]It's to go for whatever it is you want.
[16:28]Take a little bit of competitive spirit.
[16:31]And, you know, every study shows that competitiveness,
[16:34]you know, makes you perform better personally, right?
[16:36]You run faster when you're running against somebody
[16:38]just by the nature of, you know, sort of the adrenaline
[16:41]that gets going.
[16:42]So we want to find moments to help reinforce this
[16:44]with our girls, sports are an easy one
[16:46]because they're widely available for girls and for boys.
[16:49]And yet, by middle school, most girls opt out
[16:53]of competitive sports.
[16:54]There's peer pressure and social norms at play.
[16:56]And a lot of times they just give up on it.
[16:58]Even, you know, it doesn't happen to mean, you know,
[17:00]whether or not they're going to be the Olympic athlete
[17:01]it's just something that goes by the wave side.
[17:03]And this is where I'd say, well,
[17:05]do we let our boys opt out as easily?
[17:07]Right, I talked to remember one mom in the sideline
[17:09]of a sporting event here at school.
[17:11]And she says, yeah, no, we tried four sports
[17:14]for my son until he stuck with swimming, right?
[17:17]We kept going because we knew it had to be part of his day
[17:20]but for our daughter, we let her opt out.
[17:22]Sure, you know, she wants to do something else.
[17:23]She's more artsy than not.
[17:25]And I would challenge that mom to say, well,
[17:28]it's not about whether she's going to play sports
[17:30]in college or, you know, go to the Olympics.
[17:32]But it's about, you know, helping her practice
[17:34]being part of a team, being resilient
[17:36]and being competitive.
[17:38]Or try the poetry contest at the library,
[17:40]the spelling bee at school, like any moment
[17:43]where you have to throw your hat in the ring,
[17:45]be judged against your peers, practice winning and losing.
[17:49]And just realize that being your personal best
[17:52]is a good thing, even if it's in a competition.
[17:55]So true.
[17:56]And thank you, by the way, in the book you gave.
[17:57]All these like board game examples for little kids.
[18:00]And I feel like I was reading the book
[18:02]and I had like Amazon open in another browser
[18:04]because I read your book online.
[18:06]And it was like, okay, like diplomacy,
[18:09]like tan junior, like, what can I get to help my kids?
[18:13]Never see.
[18:14]Yeah, well, it's just, right.
[18:15]It's like little, easy ways that we can just like,
[18:17]naturally we doesn't have to be this grandiose thing
[18:20]that makes parenting so much more difficult,
[18:22]but it's just about thinking a little bit differently
[18:24]about what games, what books we have them read,
[18:26]you know, sort of what the daily interaction
[18:28]around the dinner table is like,
[18:29]and just small things we can do
[18:30]to reinforce these key skills for our kids, our girls.
[18:33]And I really love that you said,
[18:34]use the things that come naturally to girls
[18:37]as they're competitive advantage.
[18:38]Like, don't try to make girls have necessarily
[18:41]the same skills and then be better than go with what they have
[18:44]that's great and really blast those things in.
[18:48]Yeah. And this is, I mean, I think one of the,
[18:51]you know, we get challenged and we think about
[18:53]how to prepare our girls like,
[18:54]oh, well, you're trying to make them like boys.
[18:55]And we're like, no, no, I'm trying to help them,
[18:58]you know, own their personal best self, right?
[19:00]So, you know, it's about being your personal best
[19:02]being competitive in whatever it is that she wants to do
[19:04]and like, she's eager to engage in.
[19:07]But it's also about the fact that so many of the skills
[19:10]that come naturally is a generalization,
[19:12]but studies show to our girls are really the advantage
[19:14]that will set them apart, you know,
[19:16]when they're adults in work and at home,
[19:19]this idea that they naturally empathize more readily, right?
[19:22]And empathy is something that places higher for now, right?
[19:25]That this is what employers want in their work environments
[19:28]that we communicate.
[19:29]Our girls communicate, you know,
[19:31]in really helpful natural ways that build consensus
[19:34]that solve problems and these are things
[19:36]that are their advantage and we just want to reinforce them
[19:39]so that they really own their best girl self, you know,
[19:43]as just as young women as adults.
[19:45]So there are obviously so many things.
[19:47]But right before I did this,
[19:48]I was talking to a friend of my husband
[19:50]who just had a little girl.
[19:51]She's like two years old.
[19:53]And I was like, oh, he was like,
[19:54]I need some parenting advice podcasts.
[19:56]And I was like, oh, fantastic.
[19:57]I'll send you this sign.
[19:58]He's like, oh, yeah, well, you know, I live.
[20:00]with three women and this little girl like,
[20:01]what should I, what do girls need?
[20:03]So if there was like a summary of like
[20:05]the most important things for a new parent,
[20:07]dad or mom, to know like that they could,
[20:09]what they should do, 100%,
[20:12]like what would that take away at peace be?
[20:14]I think it's about finding little moments
[20:16]to reinforce her voice and helping her speak out
[20:20]because I think that's where it starts.
[20:21]I think it's about finding role models
[20:23]and it doesn't have to be sort of whoever the VP
[20:26]nominations gonna be that level role model.
[20:28]It's the daily role models.
[20:29]It's her mother role modeling, it's the aunt.
[20:32]It's, you know, it's an athlete you see on social media
[20:36]that you're like, oh, just look.
[20:37]Look at, you know, use those as daily reminders
[20:39]of how we want our girls to own themselves.
[20:42]And then I think, you know, always pause and remember
[20:45]to share lessons of our own, you know,
[20:47]challenges, failures, foibles.
[20:49]You know, I think not at least because studies show
[20:52]that those lessons get reinforced better,
[20:54]they get remembered more often by those listening.
[20:57]But these are the times where our girls think,
[20:59]wow, like this is what the real world's gonna be.
[21:01]And what am I gonna be like when I'm older?
[21:03]And they stop it up, right?
[21:04]Particularly our young women.
[21:06]They think that they have, you know, ears from miles
[21:09]and they hear everything we're saying.
[21:10]And now when we're navigating virtual school
[21:12]for a lot of us, there's more and more of that
[21:14]those moments where they're hearing
[21:16]and seeing us navigate really challenging times.
[21:18]So it's a perfect opportunity to just be honest
[21:20]with them and say, hey, you know, like this is how I'm
[21:23]figuring out it's not going so well because, again,
[21:26]age-appropriate ways that'll look different
[21:27]for an elementary school,
[21:29]girls, someone in middle or upper school or high school,
[21:31]but in just sharing with them how we're navigating
[21:34]these moments so that we, you know, help them do better
[21:36]than we are, we do, right?
[21:38]That's the key, that's the ticket I hope.
[21:40]And how are you navigating this moment?
[21:42]It's so funny because I'm sitting here talking to you,
[21:44]but usually on this computer I'm zooming
[21:46]with all the different headmasters
[21:47]of my kids three different schools.
[21:49]Like it's, you know, the lower school
[21:50]in the middle school and like all these different schools
[21:52]because we're all, everybody's back to school planning
[21:54]and how can we handle this?
[21:56]How are you, like, getting through this?
[21:58]Do you have to listen to your own internal voice
[22:01]for your school?
[22:02]Are you trying to aggregate consensus?
[22:04]Like what are the skills you're using?
[22:05]Like how are you making up your mind, essentially?
[22:08]Oh, it's a crazy thing.
[22:09]It's interesting.
[22:10]So you're actually, I was frantically setting up
[22:12]the system for the podcast today.
[22:14]You'll see I'm no longer in my office.
[22:15]We relocated around campus in order to socially distance
[22:18]and spread out all our girls.
[22:20]And so I no longer have an office as interestingly.
[22:22]So I'm here in our gym, you know,
[22:24]in the office next to our gymnasium,
[22:25]making sure I can talk to you this morning.
[22:27]It's hard, right?
[22:28]It's hard for all of us.
[22:29]And so one thing I remind all of our parents
[22:31]that anyone listening is, you know,
[22:33]go easy on your teachers and your kids, school leaders
[22:36]because, you know, we're all just trying to do our best
[22:38]and make this as safe as possible
[22:41]for our students or families and our teachers,
[22:44]even as we realize that in-person learning is ideal, right?
[22:47]It's where those connections get made
[22:49]between the girls and their friends,
[22:51]the girls and their teachers
[22:52]and where so much of the learning happens, you know,
[22:54]even as we were fortunate to really have great success
[22:58]with our online virtual program in the spring.
[22:59]I'm sure like your kids, right?
[23:01]We all went virtual from mid-March and now with that,
[23:04]you know, I think, you know, I like a lot of our peers,
[23:07]but I think we are sort of really leaning into the data,
[23:10]trying to figure out what, you know,
[23:11]what is the public, what are public health officials saying?
[23:14]What metrics can we use?
[23:15]What tools do we want to do?
[23:17]Can we use masks, social distancing, hand washing,
[23:20]to help protect our kids?
[23:22]But then how do we deliver not just the core academic program,
[23:25]but those other things, those other moments
[23:27]that our kids really need, particularly our girls,
[23:31]to socially, emotionally thrive, right?
[23:33]We need them to get through this next year, right?
[23:35]It's not gonna be forever and we need to remember that
[23:37]and we'll be able to help them catch up, right?
[23:39]And, you know, we have the good fortune here
[23:41]of being able to support a wide diversity of students
[23:44]and families and, you know, with tools to help them
[23:47]get through the year academically,
[23:49]but we also need to find moments
[23:50]that they can connect with each other,
[23:52]that they build those relationship skills
[23:54]that are so important, you know, particularly in adolescence,
[23:57]so that they understand how to be compassionate
[23:59]and empathize and connect with others.
[24:02]And so, you know, for parents to remember that,
[24:04]so that even as we're building the school program
[24:06]of what the day looks like, you know, remote or in person,
[24:09]we're also finding these touch points to reinforce
[24:12]the social, emotional ways of being in relationship skills
[24:15]that our girls in particular really need at this age
[24:19]to be able to navigate not just the year ahead,
[24:21]but the rest of their lives.
[24:22]So true.
[24:23]Oh my gosh.
[24:24]I feel like my daughter is mostly concerned about lunch,
[24:26]you know, because now, like lunch is like her one time
[24:28]to like let her hair down and hang out with her friends
[24:31]and now like that is, you know, being predetermined
[24:33]who she's gonna have lunch with and anyway, whatever.
[24:35]I have so much respect for school leaders
[24:38]to this whole process because this cannot be easy,
[24:40]especially dealing with the personality types
[24:43]of all the parents too, who have such strong opinions
[24:45]and oh my gosh, anyway, hats off to you, so.
[24:48]Well, but of course, because it's the most important thing
[24:49]we have, right?
[24:50]It's our kids and candidly, our teachers feel the same way.
[24:52]It's the students.
[24:53]It's like this is what, you know, what we do.
[24:56]So for that moment, right?
[24:57]So she's not gonna be able to have sit next to her friend
[25:00]in class, right?
[25:01]Because we're doing a science eating maybe in order
[25:03]to make sure that we can navigate the whole reality.
[25:06]And yet, so here's a perfect lesson in teaching her adaptability,
[25:09]right, leaning into the change.
[25:10]It's not forever.
[25:11]It's just a moment and social have to navigate it,
[25:14]but it also to build in rewards, build in other moments.
[25:16]So she can't have lunch with her friends maybe,
[25:18]but perhaps this is the time to say, you know,
[25:20]on Saturday afternoons, we're gonna have
[25:22]socially distance picnics with three of her friends,
[25:25]you know, at the park outside.
[25:27]Or over Skype or FaceTime or whatever the, you know,
[25:29]natural technological way is that even about school
[25:32]but is about connecting and is not social media.
[25:35]Because I think sometimes a lot of times
[25:36]when you rely on, or kids rely on social media,
[25:38]and that's not a natural way to connect and build relationships.
[25:42]You know, and there is something to be said for real time
[25:44]interactions, like we're having right now.
[25:47]But yeah, it's gonna be a strange reality for us all.
[25:50]And so I think, you know, the more and more we get,
[25:52]you kids used to that and helping them realize
[25:56]it's just not forever, but it's for now.
[25:58]And it's what we need to do to keep each other safe
[26:00]and healthy in that, the community side of that, right?
[26:03]One thing we're doing at our school is we're having
[26:05]all our girls pick at least one person
[26:07]or maybe a few that they're doing this for, right?
[26:09]So they're actually going to write down
[26:11]and sign a community compact that says, you know,
[26:13]I'm doing this.
[26:14]I'm taking precautions.
[26:15]I'm wearing masks for, you know,
[26:18]their favorite teacher, their grandparent,
[26:20]their mother, their friend who is immunocompromised
[26:23]or otherwise needs, you know, to, you know,
[26:25]has health concerns.
[26:27]Because at the end of the day,
[26:28]that's, you know, what we need to do to get through this all.
[26:30]That's good advice.
[26:31]That's really nice.
[26:32]You love that.
[26:32]And even what you were saying about sports,
[26:34]like we're not even having sports.
[26:35]But anyway, not just keep talking about that, but you know,
[26:37]well, we'll know it.
[26:38]We're not there yet, but it's a conversation, right?
[26:40]And so it's something that we're all,
[26:42]the school heads are talking on a regular basis
[26:44]about what it looks like we delayed our sports season
[26:46]at the moment and we're figuring out,
[26:47]well, what does it look like to have space sports?
[26:50]I mean, when we're seeing, you know,
[26:51]what's happening in Major League Baseball
[26:53]and the NCAA and you think, you know,
[26:55]well, okay, well, what does that look like for volleyball
[26:58]for our girls, right?
[27:00]You know, it's hard.
[27:01]And we end at the end of the day,
[27:03]safety is paramount, right?
[27:05]So they can train and they can, you know,
[27:08]go for runs and get outside
[27:10]and it's gonna be a tough year in that way.
[27:12]So we also need to build out,
[27:13]we've actually built in recess for the day
[27:15]for middle school, right?
[27:17]Yeah.
[27:18]You know, they left recess behind,
[27:20]but now suddenly they need to let the energy out
[27:22]and go socially distanced, that's great to say,
[27:25]but be outside and run around.
[27:27]So just tell me for two seconds about writing this book.
[27:29]Like, how long did it take to write?
[27:31]When did you decide you were gonna write this book?
[27:33]Did you have the whole outline?
[27:34]Like, how did you approach it?
[27:36]When did you do it?
[27:37]Like, all of that good stuff.
[27:38]Yo, Zippy, that's gonna be maybe more crazy.
[27:41]I don't know, this may reveal my crazy.
[27:43]So I'm just gonna warn you that.
[27:45]So, you know, two years ago about a little over two years ago,
[27:47]I had the idea all came together.
[27:49]I teach a leadership class for the seniors at the school.
[27:52]And in all the conversations,
[27:54]I started telling stories, you know,
[27:56]some of the stories that are in the book
[27:57]about my time in Afghanistan, my time interviewing Al Qaeda
[28:01]and Yemen, my time flying for the military.
[28:03]And it's the lessons, all the time,
[28:05]lessons of failure that I had in those moments,
[28:07]that I was sharing with the girls
[28:08]as they were thinking about,
[28:10]well, what is the life gonna be like
[28:11]in the real world and what skills they need?
[28:13]And then over dinner with a friend,
[28:15]a parent at the school, I sort of,
[28:16]this idea came together.
[28:18]And I had the good fortune of having
[28:20]a publisher interested right away.
[28:21]And so I wrote the book and candidly,
[28:24]there's the deadline that forced me,
[28:25]I'm a deadline driven person for those listening,
[28:27]who like deadlines help.
[28:29]I had my first child not quite a year ago.
[28:31]Oh, so there was an impetus.
[28:33]Right, let's get it done before the other baby,
[28:37]the book baby finished before the baby baby arrives.
[28:39]And I had the good fortune of having
[28:41]a very supportive partner.
[28:42]And so another lesson for all our girls
[28:44]is having a partner who builds in time
[28:46]and allows you to do that.
[28:47]So he very much was, he was the one
[28:51]who would take the baby and say,
[28:52]go write your book at the coffee shop for the morning.
[28:54]So we can get it done.
[28:55]And yeah, so it had the good fortune
[28:58]of a supportive community,
[28:59]but it was just something that was on,
[29:01]I know it was inspired to do I guess.
[29:03]Well, I don't think that's too crazy.
[29:05]Okay, good.
[29:06]And then I won't share that there was some writing going
[29:08]on in labor delivery.
[29:09]So there was no, okay.
[29:11]That might weaver into crazy territory.
[29:12]Yeah, I know, but it was extended
[29:14]and I brought my laptop
[29:15]and I just sort of wanted to get it done.
[29:17]So yes, that was the moment of pure crazy.
[29:20]But again, it was the deadline.
[29:21]It was the fear of what happens when the baby arrives,
[29:25]the just sort of whatever form.
[29:27]It's also a good lesson of it doesn't have to be perfect,
[29:29]to be good enough.
[29:29]I think moms everywhere need to remember
[29:31]that sometimes particularly now.
[29:33]We just need to be plus, we'll do often.
[29:36]And then I had a good time to edit and things like that.
[29:40]But sometimes we just need to let it go and move on,
[29:42]but I don't know.
[29:44]It's good advice.
[29:45]Do you have any other parting advice
[29:46]having written this book to aspiring authors
[29:48]and really also to parents with young girls?
[29:50]But all you've basically already did that.
[29:51]So let's just say to aspiring authors.
[29:53]Well, this is one that other people have taught me
[29:56]and I'm still working on,
[29:57]but it's the sharing of your stories, you know what?
[30:00]I think I'm actually, despite me just oversharing
[30:03]about labor and delivery, a very personal person
[30:05]who keeps my stories close to my vest.
[30:07]And so lessons of failure, it's taken a long time
[30:11]for me to share the things that I write about in the book
[30:14]of my transition out of the Navy and how sort of that
[30:17]for me was something that felt like a failure
[30:19]that I had to grow to accept over time.
[30:22]But these other personal stories, both are what audiences
[30:27]want to hear, it's what my students want to hear.
[30:28]I think it's what makes interactions like this to be,
[30:31]like your stories about your own girls
[30:32]and how we're sharing that.
[30:34]It's what makes it most fun.
[30:35]So for any writer out there, I think, for me,
[30:38]that was what helped me turn the corner
[30:40]was when I really got grew comfortable sharing my personal
[30:42]story and feeding that into the narrative.
[30:47]Awesome.
[30:48]All right, time is up.
[30:49]We got the phone ringing.
[30:50]You're on to your nose.
[30:51]I know it's exactly right here.
[30:52]I'm sorry, reality, I think, which is the way it is these days.
[30:57]But well, good luck.
[30:58]I mean, I don't envy you having to lead your school
[31:02]through this in this time.
[31:03]And they are so lucky to have you.
[31:06]So if you ever want to come to New York, you know?
[31:09]Well, don't get a good idea.
[31:10]I love my headmasters.
[31:11]With Billie's waiting for you to be there.
[31:12]That's true.
[31:13]Yeah, there you go.
[31:15]A crazy time.
[31:15]And I look forward to hearing how your kids do.
[31:18]And yeah, well, we all got to get through this together.
[31:22]Yes, I'll get through this together.
[31:24]And thank you for all the tips that I'm going to implement
[31:26]like right away.
[31:27]So thank you.
[31:27]Well, if you need more, there's actually
[31:29]on my website, whatgirlsneed.com.
[31:31]And there's resources reading lists for parents
[31:34]and for girls and with girls in mind.
[31:35]So things to other things that we can help out each other with.
[31:39]Perfect.
[31:39]More for me to do.
[31:41]No, I'm kidding.
[31:43]Needing.
[31:43]Right is the distraction.
[31:45]Totally, I need it.
[31:46]OK, thank you.
[31:48]Great to talk to you.
[31:49]Great to talk to you.
[31:50]OK, bye bye.
[31:52]Thanks so much to firstbooks.org for sponsoring
[31:55]this Labor Day book blast.
[31:57]Please consider giving to firstbook.org
[32:00]to help their network of 475,000 educators serving children
[32:04]in need.
[32:04]Thanks for listening to this episode of Mom's Don't Have Time
[32:07]to Read Books.
[32:08]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at ZB-O-N's,
[32:11]and at Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:13]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB-O-N's.com
[32:15]and sign up for my virtual book club
[32:17]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[32:20]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[32:22]for the Sound Editing.
[32:24]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[32:25]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.