Nicholas Sparks, THE RETURN
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[2:14]I was so excited to interview Nicholas Sparks.
[2:17]I didn't know what to do with myself.
[2:18]I was so nervous, actually.
[2:20]And I haven't been nervous for a podcast in ages.
[2:23]Anyway, it was fantastic.
[2:24]And of course, I just loved him.
[2:26]Nicholas Sparks hears his bio with over 100 million copies of his book sold.
[2:31]Nicholas Sparks is one of the world's most beloved storytellers.
[2:34]His novels include 15 number one New York Times best sellers.
[2:39]And all of his books, including three weeks with my brother,
[2:42]the memoir he wrote with his brother, Micah,
[2:44]have been New York Times and international best sellers.
[2:47]And we're translated into more than 50 languages.
[2:50]11 of Nicholas Sparks' novels, the choice, the longest ride, the best of me,
[2:54]Save Haven, the lucky one, the last song,
[2:57]Dear John, Knights in Radanthi, the notebook, a walk to remember,
[3:01]and message in a bottle have all been adapted into major motion pictures.
[3:05]Today, we're talking about his new book, The Return.
[3:09]Hi, I'm sorry to keep you waiting.
[3:11]Hey, no worries.
[3:13]How are you?
[3:13]I'm doing fantastic in yourself.
[3:15]I'm good.
[3:16]Thank you.
[3:17]Where are you?
[3:17]I'm in New York.
[3:18]This is my library home office.
[3:20]I know.
[3:21]Is this in your apartment?
[3:22]It's in my apartment.
[3:23]Yes.
[3:24]I love it.
[3:25]I love all the books.
[3:26]I have books behind me too.
[3:27]I see that.
[3:28]You're just like awesome.
[3:29]Yeah.
[3:30]Awesome.
[3:31]I like how you have the little cages, in case you know what,
[3:33]they're going to run away and escape.
[3:35]Yeah.
[3:36]So all the books that you see here are actually my books, but they're just
[3:39]my books in all sorts of different languages.
[3:41]And of course, I have, I don't know how many, 20 plus or whatever.
[3:44]And they've all been translated a lot of times.
[3:47]So every book you see is actually mine, not that I can read them because they're in foreign
[3:51]languages.
[3:53]That's so cool.
[3:54]I love that.
[3:55]Wow.
[3:56]I need to have a library all of your own writing.
[3:57]I mean, very inspiring.
[3:59]Well, thanks for coming on mom's.
[4:01]I have time to read books.
[4:02]This is such an honor to talk to you.
[4:04]I've read so many of your books.
[4:05]The return is so great.
[4:07]I've been reading it, you know, every night as my kids are going to bed and it's fantastic.
[4:11]So thank you.
[4:12]So for all the content you put out into the world.
[4:14]You're welcome.
[4:15]Can you tell listeners who aren't familiar yet with the return?
[4:19]What inspired you to write this book?
[4:21]And what was really the main premise of it for you?
[4:24]Well, I think the initial thought for the novel and you have to have an initial thought.
[4:30]Was I wanted to do a story with a theme of love and mystery?
[4:35]And I hadn't done that for a long time.
[4:37]The last time I did that I think was in a novel called Abandon the Road.
[4:41]And I've written other themes since then.
[4:43]I've done epic love like a longest ride or love and danger like the Guardian and and
[4:48]safe haven.
[4:49]I've done everlasting love, you know, in every breath.
[4:53]But this time I wanted to go back to love and mystery.
[4:56]And of course I wanted to make it as different as I could than my previous attempt.
[5:01]And so once you start with that, your next question is, okay, what's the mystery?
[5:06]And I realized what if there's a guy and his grandfather died and his grandfather said,
[5:13]some things that just didn't make sense.
[5:16]And that of course leads to, well, who is this person?
[5:20]And so once you have that, I think the primary element I wanted to explore was the concept
[5:27]of the aftermath of trauma and how people react when something terrible happens in their
[5:36]own life.
[5:37]And so the characters in this novel, without giving things away, have all experienced
[5:42]the trauma and they all react in different ways while trying to do the best they can.
[5:51]And I wanted to explore that perhaps because like everyone, you know, I've had trauma in
[5:55]my own life.
[5:56]I think it's it's part of the universal human experience.
[5:59]And so that makes it something that everyone can relate to.
[6:04]And as always, I did my best to create characters who, even if they weren't necessarily
[6:10]doing what you would have done, you understand why they're doing what they're doing.
[6:17]And all of those two themes, you know, the aftermath of trauma and a little mystery came
[6:23]together and little by little, the story came into place.
[6:26]Well, I feel like your main character here, though, has had more trauma than most.
[6:31]I mean, first of all, everything with his experience being a surgeon in the medical hospital
[6:38]and the PTSD that you talk you write so well about in this story, but also his family history.
[6:44]I mean, it's like one thing after another.
[6:46]I mean, the poor guy, it's amazing he can even like it out of bed in the morning.
[6:49]But anyway, it's great to then explore because you do have to get out of bed.
[6:53]No matter how much baggage you have, like the days always keep coming.
[6:57]I mean, if you're lucky, so how do you deal with that?
[7:00]And like, you know, how do you get one, put one foot in front of the other when, you know,
[7:04]you've lost your ear and your, you know, just all this stuff.
[7:08]Sure. Well, and he, of course, didn't hop up the next day.
[7:12]That's part of his journey.
[7:13]You know, first, he got really good at Grand Theft Auto.
[7:16]I like that.
[7:18]You got really good at Grand Theft Auto and drank too much until his girlfriend left him.
[7:23]And then he said, maybe I better start changing things, right?
[7:27]Yes.
[7:27]And I think, should I tell my son who's like obsessed with GTA, that it's actually in the book
[7:32]that I'm reading?
[7:33]I don't know.
[7:34]Of course.
[7:35]And he'll say, see mom.
[7:36]It's helpful.
[7:37]Yeah.
[7:38]It's therapeutic.
[7:39]Exactly.
[7:40]Well, I can't give him any more excuses to play video games.
[7:42]I don't think I'm going to bring it up, but actually one thing that I found so interesting
[7:46]in your book that I feel like doesn't come up as often.
[7:49]I was trying to rack my brain for other examples as really exploring that relationship
[7:53]between a man and his own therapy.
[7:56]I feel like it happens a lot with women, right?
[7:58]You hear women and their therapist, but it's just not his comment and the relationship
[8:01]between Bowen and Trevor.
[8:04]It really course throughout the book and deep end your understanding of Trevor and where
[8:09]he was coming from and even gave the reader some good helpful therapeutic tips for getting
[8:16]on your own life.
[8:17]So tell me about developing that relationship in the story.
[8:19]Yeah.
[8:20]Of course, there still is a stigma with mental health and there are those who have an automatic
[8:25]negative view toward therapy.
[8:29]Part of me wants to blow up that kind of thinking because I think that for some people
[8:35]in certain situations therapy can be very beneficial.
[8:39]And I think that a lot of people who don't believe in the concept of therapy or believe
[8:46]in it as long as it's not them because they're fine don't necessarily understand the evolution
[8:53]of therapy.
[8:55]So really, really long story short, you know, Sigmund Freud started psychoanalysis and this
[9:01]is what most people think that a lot of therapy isn't someone laying on the couch and
[9:06]talking about their dreams and this and that and that was very prominent for a long time
[9:11]and that's what therapy was.
[9:13]But eventually therapists and patients learned that knowing the root cause of something doesn't
[9:21]necessarily help you change it.
[9:25]It's like I know the root cause of why I eat too much ice cream and that's why I
[9:34]gain weight.
[9:35]Here's why it tastes good, right?
[9:38]So knowing the reason why won't necessarily help you.
[9:42]So a lot of therapy has changed from trying to understand why to what you do.
[9:50]What can you do in that instant when you have an urge for ice cream?
[9:55]And of course this is, you can substitute any issue that someone's had.
[9:59]What can I do?
[10:00]who if I get angry, what can I do
[10:02]if my hands begin to shake as in the case of Trevor?
[10:05]And there's things you can do,
[10:07]and it's cognitive behavioral therapy
[10:09]and dialectical behavior therapy.
[10:12]And they say, hey, let's give you a list.
[10:15]Let's do some certain things in those moments.
[10:19]And then rest of your life,
[10:20]let's try to be as healthy as you possibly can.
[10:23]You exercise, you eat, right?
[10:24]It's all the advice your mother gave you.
[10:26]Exercise eight, right?
[10:27]Sleep, right?
[10:28]Avoid mood altering substances to a great extent.
[10:32]And then in these moments,
[10:34]what can you do when you get angry?
[10:35]I can turn and walk away.
[10:38]I can try to reframe the situation.
[10:42]I can, there's things you do in that moment.
[10:45]And that's really what I wanted to explore
[10:46]is to give an idea for those who haven't had therapy
[10:49]or who don't know what it is
[10:51]or have a negative view of it,
[10:52]why it can be so beneficial.
[10:55]Trevor knows why he's messed up.
[10:57]He needs to know what to do
[11:00]to not be angry at a home depot
[11:03]when someone cuts him off in line.
[11:05]He has to know what to do when his hands begin to shake.
[11:09]And that's really the therapy
[11:11]that he's most interested in
[11:13]is because doing the right thing
[11:15]and in situations that are challenging
[11:18]leads you to becoming a very healthy version of yourself.
[11:21]That's true.
[11:22]I think I need to remember that
[11:23]as I look in the freezer at night and
[11:26]it looks pretty ice cream.
[11:28]I know why you wanted it.
[11:30]That's not gonna help, but perhaps.
[11:32]It doesn't help at all.
[11:33]Yeah, I just want it and now I'm gonna have it.
[11:36]Or because I'm angry,
[11:37]when you're listing the behaviors you should,
[11:40]anger should elicit, I guess eating
[11:42]is not really the best coping mechanism,
[11:44]but we've got for somebody else's therapy.
[11:47]It's so funny you say this too
[11:49]because I know it's so dependent on kind of where
[11:52]in the country you live or who you're surrounded by,
[11:54]how people feel about therapy and all the different views.
[11:57]I was a psychology major and I'm from New York City
[12:00]and therapy here is just like what you do.
[12:02]I mean, it's like so common,
[12:04]but I know there are so many other places
[12:05]and even different religions or different cultures
[12:08]where it's just not as accepted.
[12:09]So it's great to have a book like this
[12:11]which so normalize and explains it clearly
[12:14]and carefully and calmly and outlines all the benefits.
[12:18]So that's awesome.
[12:19]Thank you.
[12:21]I read about how your mother is really responsible
[12:23]for all of your success by getting you
[12:25]to start writing at a very early age
[12:27]and you were dabbling and all sorts of other professions
[12:31]at that time or you were so young
[12:32]but didn't really see this coming necessarily for yourself.
[12:35]Can you tell me a little more about getting your start
[12:38]and how you end starting pharmaceutical sales
[12:41]and selling dental devices to whatever you're doing
[12:44]and ended up being you?
[12:46]Right.
[12:46]So my mom originally got me into writing.
[12:48]I was 19 and at that time I was very into track and field.
[12:52]I was very competitive.
[12:53]I was on scholarship there and it was my world.
[12:56]I had dreams of being an Olympic gold medalist
[12:58]and that's all I wanted.
[13:01]I got injured during my session year.
[13:03]Over the summer, I was just miserable.
[13:05]I couldn't train.
[13:06]All this excess energy.
[13:08]I was imagining all my competitors.
[13:10]Getting better.
[13:11]I was falling behind.
[13:13]It was emotionally traumat mentally physically.
[13:16]I was just not in my right head.
[13:18]My mom knew it and she said,
[13:20]well, look, don't just pout, do something.
[13:22]And I said, what?
[13:24]She said, I don't know, go write a book.
[13:26]And so I did, right?
[13:27]And so I wrote a novel and I was 19
[13:30]and it took me about six weeks and it was terrible.
[13:33]And I'm not being false modesty there.
[13:35]It was like a 19 year old writing his very first novel
[13:38]and taking six weeks to do it.
[13:41]But I learned that I liked stories
[13:42]and I of course never thought I could make a living at it.
[13:46]So finish up college, get my degree.
[13:48]Don't get a job right away.
[13:49]So I write a second novel.
[13:51]That never gets published.
[13:53]I say, what am I gonna do?
[13:54]I kind of experiment with some different jobs for a while,
[13:58]find out what's calling me, what's speaking to me.
[14:01]And then when I was 28, I kind of had an early midlife crisis
[14:06]and said, well, what can I do in the evening
[14:09]while keeping my job?
[14:10]Because I had bills and things.
[14:12]And I sat down and wrote the notebook.
[14:14]So it was kind of like a start and a stop.
[14:17]And then a start and then a stop.
[14:18]And then a start and here I am.
[14:22]Wow.
[14:23]And I heard that, all right, I shouldn't say I heard.
[14:25]I read that an agent just found it in their slush pile
[14:27]and brought it to the top.
[14:29]And that's how you got discovered.
[14:31]Yeah, pretty much, right?
[14:32]I sent letters out to a bunch of agencies
[14:35]and someone pulled it out of the non solicited query pile
[14:40]and said, hey, take a look at this
[14:42]and that agent read the letter, asked for my book,
[14:45]read it in a couple of days and her name is Tresapark
[14:48]and she's still my agent to this day.
[14:50]Wow, I love that.
[14:52]And that's so encouraging too,
[14:53]for all the people who submit blindly
[14:55]that it can happen.
[14:56]Absolutely.
[14:57]It makes you smash hit and all the rest.
[14:59]You mentioned earlier that your own trauma
[15:02]sort of informs your writing.
[15:03]And I read that your little sister had died of a brain tumor
[15:08]and I'm so sorry to have heard that.
[15:10]Is that one of the things that motivates your writing?
[15:13]And if so, I was hoping maybe you could speak to that
[15:15]if you feel comfortable.
[15:16]Yeah, there was a period there about seven years
[15:18]where there was one loss after another.
[15:20]My mother died in a horseback riding accident.
[15:23]And my father died in a car accident.
[15:26]My sister's having the brain tumor
[15:28]and then she eventually passes away.
[15:31]And this was all in a very brief period.
[15:34]And certainly when you get hit with these traumas,
[15:38]you go through it as best you can.
[15:41]I had children, I had bills,
[15:43]I still had responsibilities and it was challenging.
[15:48]And I found that I reacted differently
[15:49]to each of these traumas because of my age,
[15:52]because of where I was,
[15:54]because of the addition of additional responsibilities.
[15:59]But they certainly informed my writing,
[16:01]particularly when I write about grief or loss or trauma,
[16:06]such as in the rescue.
[16:10]And that was one of the big things,
[16:12]as I mentioned earlier,
[16:13]that I really wanted to explore.
[16:15]So you've got three characters that have trauma.
[16:17]And they all react in different ways.
[16:20]And just as I reacted in three different ways
[16:23]after each of my own traumas.
[16:25]And in each of those cases,
[16:27]even though I reacted differently,
[16:30]I was just trying to do my best at that time
[16:33]to negotiate the cavalcade of emotion
[16:39]that I was feeling while putting one step
[16:43]in front of the other.
[16:44]So it certainly informs my writing,
[16:46]it's led to direct inspiration,
[16:48]message and a bottle was directly inspired by my father
[16:51]after the death of my mother.
[16:52]I walked remember, was inspired by my sister.
[16:55]So certainly it's informed or inspired specific stories.
[17:00]But at the same time,
[17:01]there's elements there that have woven their way
[17:04]into each and every one of my novels as well.
[17:07]I'm so sorry about all that you've been through.
[17:10]How, as a dad, do you talk about loss and grief
[17:14]to your own kids?
[17:15]Like how do you help them make sense
[17:16]of the things that have happened in your family?
[17:19]Well, it is a difficult question to answer.
[17:22]And even though Mike has arranged an age from 28 to 18,
[17:25]they've suffered loss too,
[17:27]not necessarily their parents or their siblings like me,
[17:30]but you know, 28 years we've lost pets, right?
[17:34]They've had friends who've passed away unexpectedly.
[17:37]And in the end, I think the most important thing
[17:40]you can do is to validate their feelings.
[17:44]And so you listen to them and you're empathetic to them
[17:48]and you're with them in that moment.
[17:51]And then you don't necessarily try to help.
[17:53]You validate someone says,
[17:56]I feel so sad, I can't stop crying.
[18:00]You don't say, well, that is a part of life.
[18:03]You know, it's not gonna help them.
[18:05]What you do is say, I know you do.
[18:08]You know, I have no doubt that it feels absolutely awful.
[18:13]And part of you might even wonder if you'll ever stop crying.
[18:16]Now anyone will respond to that.
[18:19]And then yeah, that's how I feel.
[18:21]And what that does is it, it opens up the ability
[18:24]to communicate on a deeper level.
[18:27]But the most important thing is to validate.
[18:30]And you say, look, I get it, you know,
[18:33]I've been through it and it's the hardest thing ever.
[18:36]But that's whether it's children or whether it's friends
[18:39]or whether it's siblings or whether it's anyone.
[18:43]It is to when someone is hurting, empathy,
[18:47]active listening, and then really responding
[18:49]to what specifically they're saying
[18:52]and not trying to fix it.
[18:55]Just letting them know you fully understand
[18:58]what they're going through.
[18:59]I mean, you should have been a therapist.
[19:01]Well, perhaps, or I've got that a lot of children.
[19:06]I mean, you've done fine for yourself,
[19:08]not to say this was not the right career for you.
[19:10]It's fine, but you know, I'm just saying,
[19:12]you obviously have a gift in this area as well.
[19:15]So it's a fallback, fallback career.
[19:18]Right, right.
[19:19]Well, and of course maybe that, you know,
[19:20]I'm hopeful some of that went through the return.
[19:23]Absolutely.
[19:24]When you write, what is your writing process?
[19:26]Like, how long does each book usually take you?
[19:28]Where do you like to write?
[19:29]Is it somewhere else in that room with the beautiful books?
[19:32]Yeah, right here.
[19:32]I write here.
[19:33]I write in the kitchen.
[19:34]I write in another room near the kitchen.
[19:37]And then I have a second office off the gym,
[19:40]much more informal and I sometimes write there.
[19:43]But I can write anywhere.
[19:44]I write on airplanes and hotel rooms and I have.
[19:48]But just generally, I write at home
[19:50]because I'm at home a lot.
[19:51]Night, night, pick a spot based on my mood.
[19:54]Essentially, novels take about six months to write.
[19:57]And then probably another 10 weeks to edit.
[20:00]But much of that 10 weeks is not hovering over the keyboard.
[20:04]It's, you send it up to them and then they take two and a half, three weeks and then
[20:09]they send back suggested changes. So you work really hard for a week and they send it up again
[20:15]and you wait another three weeks and then you make those changes. So it follows that and then
[20:19]after that, you know, you're good chunk into the year. The rest of the time is spent on tour
[20:24]and then conceiving the next novel and then you start all over again.
[20:27]How has the pandemic been your first sort of tour throughout this new world that we're in?
[20:34]Well, it will certainly be a different tour than I've done in the past. Of course, we're very concerned
[20:40]about safety and I certainly don't want to do things that would make people feel exposed or,
[20:47]you know, there's a lot of feelings and some people, nobody, you know, very few people who want to
[20:52]get this thing. So what can we do? So we've, even though I will be going out and I think it's
[20:57]important to support local bookstores and things like that, you know, it's all designed with safety
[21:04]in mind. And so we'll see how it goes. I think I'm going to six or seven different bookstores and
[21:10]we're limiting the lines, not that we're limiting people who can get signed books, but,
[21:15]you know, there's ticket in and only some people come then and it's spread throughout the day and
[21:19]I signed the books in advance. And if we take a picture, there's plexiglass between us. Everything
[21:24]you have to do so that people will feel safe, you know, and that's the most important thing on
[21:31]this tour is to do it in the safest way possible. And how about the last six months while the pandemic
[21:37]has been sort of raging, have you been working on new books during this time? Yeah, I finished
[21:42]another novel and it's now in the editing process. So I've done that. I started another novel
[21:49]and just about done with that one as well. So it's been a, I guess a workwise, it's been fairly
[21:55]productive, but like everyone, you know, COVID has hit home. My daughter had it and, you know,
[22:01]she went through that, that whole experience. And so it's of course affected me as much as it's
[22:06]affected anyone, right? Very limited. I've been largely sheltering at home. And that's the way
[22:12]is on the on the plus side. If there is one, I've worked from home for years and it was my normal
[22:17]play. So that part has not changed. Wow. So how do you keep, I mean, you've written dozens of
[22:24]books. How do you keep coming up with new characters, new plotlines? Do they all like, you're like,
[22:30]oh, I just wrote another novel and I'm on it. I mean, it's just like, it sounds so casual for you
[22:34]whereas some people it takes them their whole lives to come up with one novel. How does it work for you?
[22:40]It's just like the engine and once you go, the creativity keeps going or how does it work for you?
[22:44]Yeah, it was interesting. When I first started in 1996, that's what you were supposed to do,
[22:50]right? The notebook was published in 1996. And at that time, authors wrote a book a year.
[22:56]So if you wanted to be a successful author, you had to figure it out. You know, it's a little bit,
[23:01]it's a little bit different now authors, you know, whether you're Dan Brown or you're Jillian Flynn
[23:06]or Dennis Lahey, for instance, all excellent, excellent writers. And I love their work.
[23:12]Yeah, they might put out, they don't necessarily put out a novel a year. But back when I was starting,
[23:18]that's what you had to do. And so I figured, well, that's the only way to do it. You get in the habit
[23:24]of doing that. And so I've done that. So once you reach this stage, my goal is always the same
[23:31]as it has been since the very beginning, which is to write the best book possible one that feels
[23:36]original to the reader, one that strikes them as something entirely new that they haven't read
[23:42]before, even while knowing it'll be set in North Carolina, even while knowing there's romantic
[23:49]elements. So how on earth do you make it different? So I think about what haven't I done, what haven't
[23:54]I done recently? You know, we talked about the theme of mystery hadn't done that in a long time.
[24:00]So that was one of the original thoughts in this book. Let me have a mystery that leads to all
[24:06]sorts of questions. What is the mystery? And then I say, what really haven't I explored three different
[24:12]reactions to trauma brand new idea? Nothing I've ever written about before. I've done it with
[24:17]individual characters, but not every character in that novel. And I say, oh, okay. So these
[24:25]something I haven't done in a long time, something I have never done before. This is all new.
[24:30]This is all original. And then from there, you just keep asking yourself, what if questions regarding
[24:37]you know, what if the character's 50? What if the character's 40? What if the character's 30?
[24:42]You know, then what happens to the story? And you kind of what is the mystery? Well, what is this?
[24:47]What if that? What if this? So then you just kind of keep walking all the way through
[24:52]until the story forms in your mind and you're ready to begin writing.
[24:56]I actually found myself getting a bit impatient, like really wanting to know what the backstory
[25:01]was for Natalie and why she was looking sad all the time. And I was like, what is going on with her?
[25:05]When are we fun? What are you planning out? I can't wait to know anymore. So anyway,
[25:10]all of them actually, I mean, but yes, her's in particular. So what types of books do you like to
[25:15]read in your spare time? Have your traditional best sellers. You have your classics. You have
[25:20]foreign literature. You have award-winning literature, different styles, something poetry.
[25:27]So I'll read, you know, I read that and that's probably about 60% of what I read. The other 40%
[25:33]is nonfiction. And I find that my own interests are drawn toward histories and just kind of
[25:41]obscure histories. Generally, I don't want big sweeping things. I do read those, but you know,
[25:47]I might read a book like Salt and it's the history of Salt or Fermat and Negma and it's basically
[25:53]the story of math or something like that. I have also drawn toward biographies of people long since
[25:59]dead and hardly ever political figures. So history, biographies, a lot of sociology, a lot of
[26:06]sociology, books by John Crackauer, things like that, whether it's Missoula, which, which would
[26:12]you know, discuss, let's say, date rape on college campuses and the reality. And it was said
[26:17]in Missoula, Montana, things like that. So modern sociology as well. I'm very interested in that.
[26:23]And how has your, I know so many of your books have been made into movies. How are you feeling about
[26:28]the movie aspect of your work? Like, do you see it all kind of cinematically as you're writing it?
[26:33]Or do you really enjoy the adaptations of all the stories? Like, what's your general takeaway
[26:38]from that element of your writing? I always try to conceive a novel with the idea
[26:42]that it will be both a novel and a film. And then when I write, I only think about the novel.
[26:48]And then after the novel is written, I only think about the film. And it's important to understand
[26:53]that the nature of Hollywood has been changing over the last 10 years. International markets are
[26:58]much larger than they used to be for the box office. Streaming has become much more evident.
[27:04]Novels are now being adapted into limited series or extended series. So there's a lot of changes.
[27:12]And then of course, incomes, COVID-19. And people don't aren't sure when and where they can
[27:18]start filming. And there's challenges associated with that. So for right now, it's a little tricky
[27:25]to navigate. And we'll see what happens. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[27:31]Yeah, the best advice is to read a lot. And one of the standard jokes that I ever say,
[27:37]and when I speak in front of a crowd and get asked this question, they say, well, what advice do
[27:43]you have for aspiring writers? And I say, well, I'll tell you what helped me. When I was a kid,
[27:47]I watched a lot of TV. And I mean that, because there's things you can learn from television,
[27:53]or there's things you can learn from film, and there's things you can learn from novels.
[27:58]I certainly was a very avid reader. But if you watch television, you'll note that practically
[28:03]every show you watch I'm talking about more about network television. But even on streaming,
[28:08]it's just kind of slightly different. They're really good at ending before the commercial
[28:15]or at the end of the show with a bit of a cliffhanger that makes you want to go and see what happens
[28:22]next. And of course, anyone familiar with my writing is I try to make it almost impossible
[28:28]to stop reading at the end of a chapter, because you have to know what happens next. And
[28:32]where do you learn that? You learn that more in television and film than you would, for instance,
[28:37]in let's say a classic novel by flow bear or someone like that or a priest. So sure, read,
[28:44]you know, understand story and stories can be understood. And then I think the best thing is to
[28:48]figure out what you really want to write, because there's a difference to I want to write something
[28:53]that may or may not get published. Well, that's a different standard than I want to write something
[28:59]that will 100% be published, which is a different standard than I want something that's going to
[29:04]be a bestseller, which is a different standard than I want to be wonderfully critically reviewed
[29:11]in the New York Times and on NPR or things like that. They're all different. So to be clear
[29:16]on what you intend to write. And then finally, if you're a young writer, whatever you do,
[29:22]don't write about a young character, because everyone says write what you know. But the thing that
[29:27]happens when you're young is that you think all of your thoughts are original and really everyone's
[29:33]had them before. So for my first novel, right, my first novel, the notebook, my main character was
[29:39]80 years old. Wow. Well, this has been a particularly great episode for my son because now in addition
[29:45]to GTA and playing video games, you have said that watching TV is really good for you.
[29:50]So I don't know. I guess I'm going to have to play it for it. But thank you so much for your time.
[29:56]Thanks for sharing your personal history and for the written
[30:00]turn which was so great, so thank you.
[30:02]Thank you very much.
[30:03]Okay, have a great day.
[30:04]You too.
[30:05]Bye-bye.
[30:06]Thanks for listening to this episode
[30:08]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:10]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[30:12]at Zebie Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:15]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zebie Owens.com
[30:17]and sign up for my virtual book club
[30:19]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[30:22]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[30:24]for the Sound Editing.
[30:26]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[30:27]for providing this fantastic intro
[30:29]and now trim music.