Alexandra Elle, AFTER THE RAIN
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[1:34]Alexandra L is the author of After the Rain, gentle reminders for healing, courage, and self-love.
[1:41]She is an author and wellness consultant living in the Washington DC metro area with her husband and children.
[1:47]Writing came into her life by way of therapy and the exploration of healing through journaling.
[1:51]Quarterly, Alex teaches workshops and retreats centered around assisting others and finding their voices through storytelling, poetry, and narrative writing rooted in truth without shame.
[2:01]Her mission is to build community and self-care practices through literature and language.
[2:05]She's currently an author at Chronicle Books. She is also the author of Words from a Wanderer, Love in My Language, and Neon Soul,
[2:13]as well as hashtag and note to self-meditation, and that was the number two journal,
[2:18]growing in gratitude journal, 150 days of giving thanks, and today I affirm a journal that nurtures self-care.
[2:25]Alex's work has been featured in The New York Times. The kitchen, essence, oke, and more.
[2:29]She also hosts the Hey Girl podcast. Learn more at AlexL.com. Hi, how are you?
[2:36]How are you? I thought we were waiting for nap time to kick in.
[2:40]She went down sooner than I expected, so that's great. My husband is now wrangling our two-year-old,
[2:47]and our 12-year-old is upstairs on Zoom School, so we should have some good chats on me.
[2:52]Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I have four kids, so I totally understand how it goes, but none of mine are that little anymore, so.
[3:00]Well, thank you for coming on mom's turn. I have time to read books, and as this is evident,
[3:07]you really don't have time to read or to write. I feel like I need to whisper.
[3:13]Well, I have to make the time. You have to make the time. No, no, okay. You're in my earpods,
[3:18]so it's okay. I can hear you up close. Oh, yeah. Very smart.
[3:22]Well, thank you. So the 12-year-old you mentioned who's upstairs is that the one from the book?
[3:28]Is that the one who was in kindergarten when you decided to, there was something you
[3:33]decided when she was in kindergarten to change your job? Yeah, to quit my job and all that.
[3:38]Okay, so now she's 12. Yep, okay. He's 12 now. Yeah, and our two-year-old is Ayla,
[3:44]who is the, I talk about our TTC journey with her, and then Maximus is our third daughter,
[3:51]who was our surprise at the end of dedication. Oh, yes. So can you please tell listeners what
[3:59]after the rain is about? Oh, my goodness. Okay, so yeah, after the rain is my fourth collection
[4:06]of work, and I've been joking and saying it's like my big girl book, because while the other
[4:12]books are very near and dear to my heart, after the rain really kind of gives this
[4:16]memoir experience of like the different lessons that I've learned throughout motherhood,
[4:22]throughout my life so far. And I don't know. It's, I've been thinking about the words to put
[4:30]with like what is after the rain. And for me, it feels like a collection of hope and a collection
[4:37]of camaraderie, because I want people to be able to see themselves in the pages,
[4:42]no matter how different their experiences from mine, but just knowing that theirs is
[4:47]collective healing that's possible throughout the book. It's amazing. And you talk a lot in the
[4:53]book about how you yourself have overcome trauma. And that's in part how you found all the tools
[4:59]that you needed to sort of get you through life and that you're now so generously sharing with
[5:02]the rest of us. And you've done briefly on some of the ways in which you felt like you were not
[5:07]loved as much as a child, which kind of broke my heart when I was reading,
[5:11]sitting on the steps and the gold flap of the mailbox while you waited for your dad. And then
[5:16]he never showed up and how that broke your heart. And made you feel like you are unlovable. Take
[5:21]me back if you don't mind to some of the experiences that you felt were sort of really difficult
[5:28]for you as a child and made you not feel like you could love yourself. So I always had kind of this
[5:35]one again, off again relationship with my biological father. And I have not had a relationship with
[5:41]him for the past, I would say like 17 years. So it's been a very long time. So in that regard,
[5:48]you know, that's kind of just been the norm. But I think mostly what I talk about in after the
[5:55]rain is my relationship with me since she was my primary caregiver. And she did the best she could
[6:02]with what she knew and our relationship has come a long way. She's an amazing grandmother to my
[6:07]girls and awesome mother-in-law to my husband. And we are now at this stage in our mother-daughter
[6:14]relationship that we can really lean into our relationship from two women's perspective versus this
[6:21]mother-daughter dynamic, which feels it feels really supportive and also good boundaries are in place
[6:27]for the growth of a healthy relationship now as a 31 year old woman. But growing up, she didn't
[6:34]really have had the tools to love me, I would say. And I'm able to see that clearly now as an adult
[6:43]instead of penalizing her or judging her for what she didn't do. I'm able to see that she had her own
[6:52]experiences, her own traumas, her own stuff that she was going through. And when we don't tackle
[7:00]those things, it's hard for us to love our children in the ways in which that we should. So becoming
[7:07]a mother, I knew that I needed to love myself in order to give my then one daughter and now my
[7:15]three daughters, the best of me. And self-love was definitely a bloom in process, I like to say.
[7:23]But also like my greatest teacher in a way, because now I'm able to not only mother, my children
[7:31]from this place of love and understanding and attention and presence, but from like a self-mothering
[7:38]standpoint, which I find is really important. We don't often talk about how motherhood also
[7:44]like gives birth to us in a sense and being able to do that three times over now and really learning
[7:52]the different methods of like care for self. I'm able to show up and care for my kids in a very
[8:00]different way and love my children in a very different way from how I was raised. And that is really
[8:06]like the greatest lesson in all of it. No matter the trauma I went through and the triggers and
[8:13]the hardship, but it's like, okay, what did I do with those lessons? And it has spilled over into
[8:19]how I show up in my motherhood today. That's beautiful. And I was going to get to your mom. I wasn't
[8:24]only going to talk about your dad, I promise. I just don't have a relationship. I didn't know. I
[8:30]rather not. I just it was just the disappointment. It was just that feeling of disappointment and
[8:37]sitting there. And you know, just like, your parents disappointing, parents always end up disappointing
[8:43]in some ways or another, right? But that was such a moment. And then like your mom screaming at
[8:47]you in the car when you were trying to scoot away the day that she was in a bad mood and
[8:52]no, I get it. And you know, it takes a really, and you're only 31. Oh my gosh, like I'm 44 and I'm
[8:57]finally getting to a place where I'm like, okay, maybe it's their issue. And it's not directed
[9:03]at me. Like, not mine, right? So I feel like you have a full-on leg up on like the world.
[9:10]I'm like, I'm a charity stamp away, which is great. It's been a long time coming. That's absolutely
[9:16]for sure. I don't know. I'm still are ahead of most of the world in terms of, you know, that sort
[9:22]of self-acceptance and all that. What makes you want to share this? Like, you've learned so much.
[9:26]You've sort of reparented yourself as like a therapist. Why share it? Why give it to everybody else?
[9:33]Why not just, you know, go about your life? I know you love to write and you've been writing
[9:36]every, you know, for your whole life and all the rest of it. But what is it about this message that
[9:41]you think that you really want to just get out there and what? Community and letting folks know
[9:47]that they are not alone in their struggles and what they go through. And I think it's really important
[9:53]to share stories that folks can see themselves in, or that they can feel like,
[10:00]And I'm not the only one who went through that or a man.
[10:02]I'm not the only one who went through something.
[10:04]And now I can be on the other side of that.
[10:06]I mean, that's the big messaging in after the rain.
[10:09]It's like what comes after the rain?
[10:11]The light comes.
[10:12]The rainbows come.
[10:12]The clouds part.
[10:13]And we can see hope and resilience and triumph.
[10:18]And also knowing that we're going to have stormy seasons
[10:22]in life, it's not just going to be after the rain.
[10:24]And then boom, we're just going to have these sunny days.
[10:27]It's like, no, we are going to, as human beings,
[10:30]we move through things.
[10:32]And our storms are what teach us something.
[10:35]And while a lot of what I share in this book
[10:39]is absolutely personal to me, it's also really pivotal
[10:44]to my growth.
[10:45]And the type of woman I am, the type of person I am,
[10:48]the type of woman I continue to strive to be, which is one
[10:52]who is able to greet not only self with compassion,
[10:56]but others with compassion.
[10:58]And to know that you don't have to pretend to be perfect,
[11:01]you don't have to pretend to have it all together,
[11:03]that you can show up flawed on the page,
[11:05]you can show up flawed in life, and still
[11:08]be worthy of moving through whatever it is you're going through.
[11:11]And I think that that's really special and important.
[11:14]I find that a lot of times we are chumps
[11:16]in this circle as women that we have to be strong
[11:20]and not have any traumas and not have any triggers.
[11:23]If we do, hush, don't say anything about it, right?
[11:26]And it's like, that is not supportive to the collective,
[11:30]to hoard these stories that have shaped us.
[11:33]And maybe that have hurt us, but also that have shown us
[11:37]the benefits of healing and facing things head on.
[11:40]Totally agree.
[11:41]I do feel like, and I don't know about you,
[11:43]at least on social media, there's been a little,
[11:46]I feel like there's been a shift to people sharing a lot.
[11:50]You know, like, some people are still caught up
[11:52]with the perfection, like, here I am on the beach.
[11:54]And look at my, like, I'm so amazing.
[11:56]And, you know, I just want to, you know,
[11:58]like, I can't even look at this bikini right now.
[12:00]But other people, I feel like I'm really like, you know,
[12:04]my husband just told me he's gay,
[12:06]and now I have to live with that.
[12:08]And here's how I'm crying on my pillow.
[12:10]Like, I feel like there's been a sort of shift
[12:13]to sharing the most intimate, I don't know.
[12:15]Do you feel like that?
[12:16]And I mean, I feel not that your book is like,
[12:19]exploitatively sharing, it's a perfect, you know,
[12:22]balance, but I don't know if you've noticed that too,
[12:25]or just anecdotally.
[12:26]I mean, I think I've noticed people's vulnerability
[12:29]being more accepted.
[12:31]And I think that that's special.
[12:33]I do think there is a line in which we have to be mindful
[12:38]of the stories that we're sharing,
[12:39]because yes, there are stories,
[12:41]but they are also other people's stories, right?
[12:44]So it's like, before I let my mom,
[12:46]she read the first copy,
[12:47]I both mark every chapter about our story.
[12:50]I wrote her a beautiful letter,
[12:51]and we had a really healing moment
[12:54]before anyone else got the book.
[12:56]I got my husband's blessing to share about our hardships
[12:59]from the fertility to the infidelity
[13:01]that we faced prior to getting married.
[13:04]And like, we have to be very mindful of the stories
[13:08]that we hold in our bodies,
[13:09]but also other people's stories that we decide
[13:11]to walk into and tell.
[13:13]And that is something that I find extremely delicate.
[13:17]It's not something I take for granted at all,
[13:19]especially as a writer knowing that I have multiple stories
[13:22]that don't just include me.
[13:24]It's not just about me,
[13:25]so that goes back to my work as being really centered
[13:29]around community and how it's so important
[13:31]that we are mindful of what we say,
[13:34]how we say it, and what we share.
[13:36]Very true.
[13:37]So how do you stay so mindful?
[13:40]How do you keep all of these principles
[13:43]that you espouse in the book that are so awesome?
[13:47]But then there you are,
[13:48]like trying to get your kids down for a nap,
[13:50]and life sort of keeps coming up, right?
[13:53]How do you keep those?
[13:54]Life will continue, right?
[13:55]Yes.
[13:56]Just how do you keep it top of mind?
[14:00]How do you make sure that in the moment,
[14:02]you're remembering all the things that you know deep down,
[14:06]and you don't let it,
[14:08]I know there was a scene at the beginning of your book
[14:10]where somebody at your office
[14:12]said something super rude to you
[14:14]that I honestly couldn't even believe,
[14:15]and you were on the street just,
[14:17]and you were trying not to scream back at him,
[14:20]and you managed to pull it off
[14:22]in like a very clever, awesome way,
[14:23]but you just wanted to scream and rage on the sidewalk,
[14:26]and how do you pull it back?
[14:29]Like, how do you pull it back, I guess?
[14:32]How do I pull it back?
[14:34]I used to be really bad at pulling it back.
[14:36]And it's interesting because I think it's important
[14:42]how we leave people, you know,
[14:45]and how we engage with people.
[14:47]Maya Angelou has a quote that's along the lines of,
[14:50]like, people will remember how you treat them, right?
[14:53]They will remember how you left them feeling.
[14:57]And even when someone is like that boss
[15:00]in that chapter, it changed that you're referring to,
[15:03]I could have easily been just as awful back,
[15:07]but what would that have done?
[15:08]Nothing, right?
[15:10]It would have made me look like a jerk,
[15:12]just like it made him look like a jerk, you know?
[15:14]And it's just like, it's not worth the energy.
[15:17]And linking this to holding it together
[15:21]while in quarantine, while mothering three,
[15:24]while also being a wife, while also working from home,
[15:27]it takes a lot of practice and self-awareness.
[15:30]So I know when I'm on edge,
[15:32]and everyone in house knows when mom's on edge,
[15:34]my husband knows he's home full-time with me.
[15:38]So that's, you know, I understand the privilege there,
[15:40]but I'm able to literally step away
[15:42]and say, hey, I need a moment.
[15:43]So all of this really requires being self-aware enough
[15:48]to name what we need,
[15:49]and like putting some of our baggage down
[15:51]and letting other people help us.
[15:53]And I think in motherhood,
[15:55]that can really get challenging
[15:57]because I kind of feel like sometimes like,
[15:59]we just get it done.
[16:00]Like, that's what we do, we get it done.
[16:02]And it's like, but also our partners,
[16:04]if we are in partnership,
[16:05]in my position, my husband, like,
[16:07]he can also get it done.
[16:09]And I have to be able to name what I need.
[16:12]And I think that that's really special
[16:14]and that's how it really,
[16:15]I'm able to like, keep myself together
[16:17]because I can be like, hey, I need five minutes.
[16:18]Hey, I need 10 minutes.
[16:20]Hey, I'm gonna go take a drive.
[16:21]I need to go run these errands.
[16:22]And then also recognizing that in my husband too,
[16:25]when he, when I'm working all day,
[16:26]and he's hands-on with the kids all day,
[16:28]like making sure he's getting his time.
[16:30]And it's just a community effort, right?
[16:33]So holding it together requires me to take care of myself
[16:37]so I can take care of others.
[16:38]And I often say this in my work,
[16:39]self-care as community care.
[16:41]If we look at taking care of ourselves
[16:43]as an extension of showing up in our relationships
[16:46]and our work, et cetera,
[16:48]then we're really kind of able to find that balance.
[16:50]It's not always perfect, it's not always pretty,
[16:53]but it's definitely a practice that's worth leaning into.
[16:57]You know, I hear about self-care all the time.
[16:59]And I feel like we need a new name for it
[17:04]because self-care sounds indulgent.
[17:06]You know, like self-care sounds like I'm like kicking it
[17:10]and like, you know, being selfish almost, right?
[17:13]But I think that it's not like that.
[17:15]It's essential, right?
[17:17]It's, you have to do it.
[17:19]It's, it's like, I don't know.
[17:21]I feel like if there was a different name,
[17:22]maybe I wouldn't feel guilty doing it.
[17:24]Do you know what I mean?
[17:25]I've just been shifting to like taking care.
[17:28]And then also self-care as community care
[17:31]is how I teach it when I'm teaching workshops
[17:33]and when I'm on my podcast
[17:35]and when I'm like showing up in these community spaces
[17:38]where it does feel like, you know,
[17:40]self-care is the selfish thing,
[17:41]but Audrey Lorde says it best.
[17:43]It's not, it's not self-indulgent.
[17:45]It's a radical act of the political statement at that,
[17:49]especially for women, right?
[17:50]To be able to even take five minutes to go pee in peace,
[17:56]to go wash your face, to like take a second
[17:59]to get back into your body.
[18:00]It doesn't have to be a latte or manicure
[18:03]or a face mask or a massage, right?
[18:06]There are these other means of refueling
[18:09]and re-nourishing that are also extremely important.
[18:13]It's more like baseline emotional regulation, right?
[18:16]It's more like-
[18:17]Exactly.
[18:18]It's like getting back to basics.
[18:21]Like this is not an option.
[18:24]Like if you can't pull your emotions together enough
[18:28]to like finish bath time, then you need to do something.
[18:34]Or is this like screaming at the kids, you know?
[18:36]I mean, I feel like so often those like, you know,
[18:40]sort of intense feelings, you know, snapping,
[18:42]even just like, you know, loading the car up yesterday
[18:45]or whatever with all the kids and the dog and the bags
[18:48]and the this and I could feel myself like snapping
[18:50]in everybody and I'm like, I'm losing my patience.
[18:52]And like why, why would we have to go so badly?
[18:55]We're just going home, you know, I don't know.
[18:57]Yeah.
[18:57]It's a balancing act.
[18:58]It's hard.
[18:59]It's not easy.
[19:00]It's not pretty.
[19:01]I know Instagram makes self look so beautiful,
[19:04]but it's really the nitty gritty is when it's like,
[19:07]you're deep in it.
[19:10]So tell me a little more about writing this book.
[19:12]Tell me about like how long it took
[19:14]and where you wrote and your process and all that.
[19:17]Yeah.
[19:18]So I, oh my gosh, it took me like a year and a half,
[19:22]two years to write this book.
[19:23]And I was eight months pregnant with our youngest
[19:26]when I turned in my manuscript.
[19:28]And I remember my editor saying,
[19:29]we will try to give you like some time.
[19:32]So you can be in postpartum.
[19:34]I was like, I'm putting a boundary, okay?
[19:36]Like after I have this baby, y'all are cannot email me
[19:39]for like a month and it's just fun and laughed about it.
[19:42]So not only was I writing this book,
[19:44]I was growing a baby.
[19:46]And so I was like giving birth to two things simultaneously.
[19:51]And I did a lot of writing here at home.
[19:54]I also, I had to get through.
[19:56]I kind of got stuck in the middle.
[19:58]And it was really hard.
[19:59]So my husband.
[20:00]home with our two and I went to a hotel back when you could do those things, not in COVID, right?
[20:07]And I went for a weekend and I just knocked it out. And I remember feeling really,
[20:13]really accomplished that I was able to do that in a quiet place in an un-rushed place.
[20:19]Because writing a book from home is really hard when you have kids. And our little one,
[20:25]our middle child, she was still very little, my two youngest or 20 months apart. So it was like
[20:31]very intense. And I needed that time. So to be able to go and finish in peace and
[20:38]in quiet was really amazing. It took a while. But then once I was in flow, it was just like,
[20:44]boom, here it is. And then by eight months, I was by eight months pregnant, I was ready to
[20:49]turn on the manuscript. And it was it was great after that. Wow. I love how you sprinkled in quotes.
[20:55]And it's like, it's such a great book like inspirational. Like, even if you don't have time to
[21:01]sit and read every single word, your quotes, even just like getting a quick dose every time you open
[21:05]it is just fabulous. Yeah. And a great cover, which always helps. Yeah. Thank you for that.
[21:10]Yeah. Isn't it beautiful? I love it. They did so good. It's so beautiful.
[21:16]Funny story about the cover. Like we went back and forth on the cover. Oh my gosh. And we finally
[21:24]got it to where everyone was like, you know, I think the first one that we looked at was the one.
[21:30]And it was just it's just hilarious. Like the things you have to go through. Like when the book is
[21:35]when the manuscript is done, but you still have to get like the little things together like the
[21:41]cover and like where is the gold foiling going to go? And how is it going to be debossed or embossed
[21:46]and all those things? And then you get in. It's like, oh, it was worth it. So the one we first started
[21:52]with was the one that we ended up going with after like 20 other mockups later.
[21:59]Yeah. Your first books, you self published. And now you're in the regular, not regular. What's
[22:04]traditional publishing world? Traditional books. So the first. Yeah. My first two books, I self
[22:10]published. And then I was with a different smaller publishing house or neon soul and today I affirm
[22:17]which neon spell as a collection of poetry today I affirm is a journal. And then I got picked up
[22:22]by chronicle for this for after the rain and then a partner journal that's coming out caught in
[22:28]courage. So it's going to be it's really amazing. And being self published at first was definitely
[22:35]like wonderful. I learned so much. I was able to build my audience and build my readership
[22:41]in a really authentic way. So now to be I'm four years into the traditional publishing world. And I
[22:48]really love who I landed with for after the rain chronicle is just they're wonderful. That's great.
[22:54]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? Oh my gosh. Write the story. Just write. I tell this
[23:00]all the time to the folks who in my journaling courses and who come to my workshops. Just write
[23:06]the story. Just put it on the page and everything else will fall into place. Something that really
[23:11]supported me when I first got into publishing my work eight years ago was a friend told me stop
[23:19]hoarding your story. You'd never know who's going to need your story. And I remember thinking
[23:25]no way. You know that and she was like no yes way. Just put it on the page. And since then I have
[23:32]been I keep that at the forefront of my mind, especially when I'm sharing things that are intertwined
[23:39]with like adversity and uncertainty because we never know who needs our story and who will benefit
[23:47]from it. And we're never alone in our struggles. And I think that that's really important to
[23:50]center in our work. I'm literally writing it on a sticky to put on my computer. I'm my computer right
[23:56]now. You never know. I love that. Yeah, setting it right here next to you. That's great. Well Alex,
[24:04]thank you. Thank you for using your precious nap time moments to chat with me today. And thank you
[24:10]for your lovely soulful book that I'm sure will help countless people out there. So thanks.
[24:18]Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Take care. Bye.
[24:24]I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I know I enjoyed recording it. Don't forget to check out my new podcast
[24:31]moms don't have time to lose weight. Pretty soon moms won't have time to listen to podcasts.
[24:36]And check out the Instagram community that goes along with it. And if you would like to join,
[24:41]please request to join. It's for anyone who wants to feel body better in their body tomorrow than
[24:46]they do today. And it's a supportive group of like-minded souls who just need the community to achieve
[24:51]their goals. Moms don't have time to lose weight. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't
[24:56]Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have
[25:01]Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book
[25:07]club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at
[25:11]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing
[25:16]this fantastic intro and out trim music.