Oliver Jeffers, WHAT WE'LL BUILD
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[1:35]Welcome to day three of my children's book last week. I'm so glad you're back. I hope you've caught up with all the other episodes from day one and day two.
[1:43]Just a few more days to go. The first episode in today's book last is Oliver Jeffers who wrote what will build.
[1:51]He's also written a thousand other things. And so I'm going to tell you more about him in case you don't know.
[1:55]Oliver Jeffers makes art and tell stories. His books include How to Catch a Star, Lost and Found,
[2:01]and The New York Times bestsellers stuck. This miss belongs to me and once upon an alphabet.
[2:06]He is also the illustrator of the number one bestsellers, The Day the Cran's Quit,
[2:11]and The Day the Cran's Came Home in collaboration with Drew Daywall. His critically acclaimed books
[2:16]include highly regarded the fate of Fausto, which have sold over 14 million copies in 46 territories worldwide.
[2:23]He has been the recipient of some of the children's books world's highest accolades,
[2:27]including the Nestle Gold Medal for Lost and Found, the Irish picture book of the year for the
[2:32]incredible book-eating boy and best audio performer of the year for here we are.
[2:37]And now we're going to discuss his latest book What Will Build plans for our future together.
[2:42]Welcome, Oliver. Thank you so much for coming on Monster and have time to read books.
[2:46]Yeah, you're very welcome. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, this is like Christmas in my house,
[2:50]which I don't even sell for Christmas, but it would be like Christmas. It's like the
[2:53]the greatest thing to be interviewing you. My kids were freaking out. I have four kids and
[2:58]they are obsessed. My little guy loves how to catch a star and obviously the crayons and everything
[3:03]else. So I wanted to talk to you. So let's start by talking about your new book, which I only
[3:09]have on my iPad here. What Will Build, which beautiful illustrations per usual and thought
[3:15]provoking text, tell me a little bit about your latest book and what kind of inspired this one
[3:20]and why now? Well, why not? And what inspired her both the same thing, which is we had a second
[3:25]child of daughter. And it's I joked that I'd better write her a book because I'd never hear the
[3:31]end of my sonhood book and she didn't. But really it was I was going through similar internal
[3:37]dialogues up by the state of the world and what it's like to be raising a child. And especially
[3:43]this time around that this is the first it's not the first time we've had a child, but it's the
[3:46]first time we've had a daughter. And she's actually the first female jaffers in four generations.
[3:51]So quite some time. We'll just thinking about the timing and the feeling and the zeitgeist of
[3:57]this moment where so much change is possible, not guaranteed, but possible. And the idea of
[4:04]raising a daughter and what will hopefully no longer be in man's world just it feels like a special
[4:10]time to be trying to do that. And really that was one aspect of it, but it's also with here we are
[4:16]if that book was about trying to understand the world as it is and break it down in its simplest terms,
[4:21]which sort of covers the strangeness that comes with being a parent for the first time,
[4:26]then we had already experienced that. So our thoughts were able to turn more fully to the future
[4:32]when looking at this brand new bundle of life in our arms. And so it's if here we are,
[4:36]it's about explaining the world as it is, then what will build is about possibly changing it.
[4:41]And just in those, the quiet hours in the middle of the night, as I was mentioning about the
[4:45]sleep, I would just sort of be imagining these things and saying he's one point or other just
[4:49]started to write it down. And then it came quite organically and quite naturally.
[4:54]Wow. So you just have to keep having kids and you'll just have more original content.
[4:58]Yeah. How old is your how old is your son? He's five. He turned five in the solar.
[5:07]Okay. I have a five-year-old also. He must eat up these bucks like crazy. I mean, how cool
[5:12]that dad he does this. Well, he goes, but I don't try to ram them down his throat either, because
[5:16]I was never a big reader when I was a kid. Because it always felt like something that you had to do
[5:20]for homework, almost like a chore. And it wasn't until I discovered books on my own terms that I
[5:26]became an avid writer. And that was later in life. And I just had, I don't know, it's sort of this
[5:29]deep-seated fear that if I tried to make him do something, it would actually put him off.
[5:35]So, but he does. He goes to books, but he actually likes reference books more, you know,
[5:38]like books that explain things. He's definitely more like his mother in that sense where
[5:42]she's an engineer. And so he likes things that to be explained logically. But he also likes
[5:47]dinosaurs and diggers. And my daughter in the ground, I think, is a lot more similar to me.
[5:52]It's different terms chaos and accurate.
[5:56]So, what types of books got you reading?
[5:59]What types of books got me reading? I mean, there are books that I enjoyed whenever I was
[6:03]when I was a kid for sure. I think the first books, the first book that I read because I
[6:09]wanted to read it was a rolled out book. I had read the BFG for school, and it was the first
[6:15]book that didn't fail like homework. It felt like a treat. And then I just went and read his entire
[6:21]backlog. But honestly, it wasn't until months later in life that I became, you know, a read
[6:25]every single day type of person. And it was mostly, and I mostly read nonfiction, believe it or
[6:30]not, because there's so many interesting things that have actually happened in the world.
[6:34]It's just, I want to find out about all those things, everything else. And it was in trying to,
[6:41]when I realized that there was, kind of remember what it was, but there was something that I
[6:44]didn't understand. I was like, well, let me read about that. And because it was in my terms,
[6:47]and I wanted to find out about it, it was a very different experience.
[6:50]Interesting. I remember growing up, we had my parents had like these encyclopedia's, which were all
[6:55]really fancy and bound and everything. And I remember being like, wow, I could just learn about
[6:59]anything I want. I'm just going to pull this thing out and let's see what I find. Yeah, the power,
[7:04]the power in that. We moved to the US 15 years ago. And I realized that all the classic books that
[7:09]they teach in schools here in Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom. They were, they were,
[7:14]you know, Emily Bronte charged stickings, things like that. And when I got to the US, I realized
[7:18]there was a whole different genre of classic books that were American classic books. And I think
[7:24]I'd find a list of like the 100 classic American novels. And I've sort of been slowly working my way
[7:29]through them. So, you know, discover John Stein back that way and can't KSC. And it's, and that's,
[7:35]that's been a real pleasure. So take me from what happened when you started reading real
[7:41]doll books and to like here, when did you know that you wanted to produce books? Like when did
[7:46]you start illustrating and writing and winded all that brew up inside you? From when I was a kid,
[7:52]I've always loved drawing and making things. And a lot of the art looking back on the night has
[7:56]been very narrative driven. So there is that old Picasso quote, you know, all children are artists.
[8:01]The trick is just remembering how I would have you grow up. And when people ask me when did I start
[8:06]making art? I tend to ask them, well, when did you stop? Because we all made art at some point then
[8:11]of all that I was just sort of stopped and moved on to different things. I just never did.
[8:16]But when did it occur to me to actually make a book? I think from when I started thinking about
[8:21]real life jobs and so on. Once I learned that making art was a real life job, I knew that that
[8:27]was going to be from me. And I started to work my entire system. The university experience is
[8:33]very different in the UK and Ireland than it is in the USA, whereas here you have to start
[8:36]specializing really from the age of 15. And then you pick your degree, your subject, and then
[8:42]you pick where you want to go, whereas in the US, it's you pick your college. And then you pick
[8:46]what you want to study. So it's a much more different system here. And I think it suits fewer people
[8:52]here because who knows what they want to do when they're 15. But I'm one of the fortunate people that
[8:56]did know because I knew that I wanted to make art. And I got into art college. And I was only at
[8:59]the very, very into my art college. And I thought I was going to be a painter, which is still
[9:03]something that I do. I have two completely separate careers. And I had this concept for a series
[9:09]of canvases. But it occurred to me that maybe these canvases would better serve as a book.
[9:15]And so I made a book in my last year of college. And then I went about trying to get that
[9:19]published. And when I was showing that to publishers both in London and New York, the question was
[9:25]asked, do you have other ideas or is this a one-off? And I said, it was like, oh no, I've got lots
[9:30]of ideas. I didn't really. I was just like, I think that's the answer they wanted here. And
[9:34]ever since then, it's just been, the switch was very easy for me. And books came very,
[9:38]very naturally. And just today, I realized that it's almost 20 years since I first made
[9:44]how to catch a star. Wow. And it's still like, it's so relevant and so beautiful. And like,
[9:50]I go to bed reading it with my son. It's so crazy, right? When you think like your ideas
[9:55]are in my house every night, you know, it's just the magic of picture books. It's really
[9:59]unbelievable.
[10:00]No, and I try not to break it down and take it apart to see how it works ever because I just sort of fear that it won't ever be put back together.
[10:09]So it's just it is such a strange thought that the work that I do alone in the studio then goes out and has a life of its own.
[10:15]And it's easier just not to think about that than to really contemplate what that means.
[10:19]Wow.
[10:20]So how you keep obviously creating lots of stories.
[10:25]Do they just sort of occurred to you like, how does something trigger you to decide this is going to be my next book?
[10:32]Well, I've lost some ideas for stories that never really fully marginalized materialized rather into stories because every good story, every good picture book has a beginning, a middle and an end.
[10:44]And some of these ideas that I had, they might have, they might have just been the middle.
[10:48]It might, you know, it was like a gimmick or my interesting visual or didn't have one of those three things.
[10:52]It couldn't really be flashed out and off into picture book.
[10:55]And so my sketchbook was riddled with those ideas.
[10:58]And then at one point, I thought these don't have all that it takes me a full picture book, but maybe I could do a book of short picture books and that became once upon an alphabet.
[11:09]And so that really was me just plundering through my sketchbooks and lifting the choices ideas and then attributing one to each ladder.
[11:16]And there was a few holes that I had to think up once from scratch.
[11:19]But honestly, each book happens in a different way.
[11:22]Like stuck is partially based on a true story.
[11:25]The incredible book eating boy, the whole story came from both an art project that I was doing with a scientist and quantum physics.
[11:32]And just a simple drawing that I made and I connected the two things.
[11:36]And then the fate of first though, I don't really know where that came from.
[11:40]I was, I took a drive up the north coast of Northern Ireland and I pulled a car over just on the cliffs and the absolute middle rural of nowhere.
[11:48]And I took an app as I was watching this storm come in and I woke up and that that book was just on the tip of my tongue.
[11:54]And I just put pencil to paper and it came out pretty much as is.
[11:58]So who knows where that came from.
[12:00]The other ones are, you know, here we are was originally written as a ladder to my son and the same with what will build.
[12:05]So there's not a formula.
[12:07]Each one is slightly different.
[12:09]And sometimes they're quite tricky to pick the lack of like stuck that based on really getting a kind of stuck on a tree and really getting some other stuff caught in the tree.
[12:17]But I didn't know how it ended.
[12:19]And I sat on it for six months, eight months, maybe a year before watching my nephew's play.
[12:25]And just forgetting about one game and moving on to the other that I realized, well, maybe it doesn't have to end. Maybe they just get, he just gets distracted and moves on and that proved to be the perfect ending.
[12:34]So it's, it's, it's different for every case.
[12:38]Wow. And then my daughter wanted me to ask you how you came up with the design for the crayons.
[12:44]Well, they're crayons.
[12:45]I know.
[12:46]Like the, the actual, I don't know, like the faces and the making them so human and I don't know, like how you came up with it.
[12:53]It's a great question. But that's her question.
[12:56]Well, we, it was fun to come up with the design for the crayons boxes.
[13:00]I wanted it to be completely unique and not associated with any existing crayons brand.
[13:04]And, and so it was, it was based on like, I saw an ad in the magazine for like a pack of candy with that color spectrum.
[13:11]And, you know, like an old time magazine or something like that.
[13:13]And I was like, oh, that's how that will do.
[13:15]But really, it's the simplicity of it. When I saw that story, I just knew that this book had to be done so simply.
[13:21]I couldn't over to it because it would ruin the, just the obviousness of the whole thing.
[13:25]So the letters had to be written, like as if you got them in the stack.
[13:28]The crayons themselves had to be characters.
[13:31]And so that's good eyes pants.
[13:33]And that's, you know, it's the simplest way that I could have drawn them and make them look like physical objects.
[13:38]And then of course, everything else in the book is a crayon drawing.
[13:41]So it was like, well, what are the, what are the laws of just logic that would apply to this if this really happened?
[13:48]And then I just went from there.
[13:50]So how do you, some books you illustrate only in some books you write and illustrate?
[13:55]Are you still like a for hire illustrator? I can't imagine.
[13:58]No, I never, I never have been.
[14:00]And so I always said I would never illustrate somebody else's book until I was tricked into looking at the crayons manuscripts.
[14:07]And the editor that I work with in in New York called me into his office.
[14:11]And then says, oh, I got a lead to take a phone call.
[14:13]Don't look at anything on my desk.
[14:14]So of course I went over and look, and that was sitting face up.
[14:17]And I read it was like, oh, this is a really great concept.
[14:19]It's so just obvious what should be done.
[14:21]Like I hope it ever does this doesn't work the right way.
[14:24]And then my editor came back in and I said, who's illustrating this?
[14:27]And he goes, no one yet.
[14:28]Why are you interested?
[14:29]And I was like, I knew exactly what you were doing.
[14:30]But I could not do it.
[14:32]And then the only other book I've illustrated that hasn't been a crayons book was with Owen Colfer, who we were friends.
[14:39]And we had this or he had this like we just basically says, yeah, we should work together.
[14:45]Artists on and authors on that meet on literary festivals.
[14:49]All we said that sort of stuff.
[14:51]And it never happens.
[14:52]But then about two weeks later, Owen says, I've got this idea that I think might be perfect for you.
[14:55]And I read it.
[14:56]And I was like, that is pretty good actually.
[14:58]And I was like, well, what about I did it this way?
[15:00]And he was perfect.
[15:01]And then it was just that simple.
[15:02]And then actually there's another book.
[15:03]But it's unclear.
[15:05]People said, well, who wrote it?
[15:06]Who illustrated it?
[15:07]And Sam once and I both said, well, we both did.
[15:09]We both wrote it.
[15:10]We both illustrated it.
[15:11]And that was born out of just meeting this person, becoming friends of them and realizing that all of our work, all of our over just overlaps so much.
[15:18]And we said we should do a project.
[15:20]And we started doing what we thought was an art project that then morphed into a picture book.
[15:25]So it's been organic every single time.
[15:29]Right.
[15:30]So all the authors out there who would salivate for your help with illustrations can now just say forget it.
[15:36]That's off the table.
[15:37]I still work in the final world.
[15:41]It's my schedule over the next couple years is mostly sort of based in like public sculptures and paintings.
[15:48]So it's a strange sort of a mix of like I get.
[15:51]It's kind of always laughed at authors who they want to collaborate.
[15:54]It was like, yeah, that's 15 minutes of work for you.
[15:56]And it's a year's work for me.
[15:57]So it's not that straightforward.
[15:59]And what is it like?
[16:00]Like tell me where you do the drawings, like what materials you use, like just the process of illustrating a book.
[16:07]Again, it's a different book by book.
[16:09]My city was in Brooklyn, New York.
[16:11]Although I haven't been there in some time as we were traveling before this pandemic hit.
[16:14]And then we came back to Northern Ireland to be with family.
[16:17]So what we'll build is that's all paint on paper.
[16:21]It's acrylic paint and a little bit of ink, some colored pencil on paper.
[16:25]Here we are was some ink washes that was then finished on procreate on an iPad.
[16:30]The incredible boogeting boy was all collage with acrylic paint.
[16:34]The loss and find how to catch star.
[16:36]They were all watercolor.
[16:37]And then the fate of first though, just because I wanted to make life exceptionally difficult for myself,
[16:42]I experimented with a completely different media, which is lithographic printing.
[16:45]And so that's there is no original piece of art for that per se,
[16:49]because it was all made on stone and on metal plates, layer by layer color by color.
[16:53]And then those, those kids and stones were sort of destroyed in the process of making them.
[16:59]So it was completely different. And I really didn't know what was going to come out the other end of the printer.
[17:07]Have you like figured out what it is about your style that is so appealing to others?
[17:12]And maybe that's to sort of self-referential, but maybe that's more for me to say,
[17:16]but have you kind of analyzed it like when you start a new project?
[17:20]I'm trying not to, but I think there's a, there's a directness and a simplicity and an honesty to it,
[17:25]where it's, I'm just clearly enjoying myself.
[17:28]And that's just the way that I write.
[17:30]That's just the way that I do a straight line.
[17:32]That's just the way that it will look like if I do this.
[17:35]And it's, I'm not trying to be anybody else.
[17:37]I'm not trying to be something I'm not.
[17:39]And it's, it's just a, I don't know.
[17:42]There's maybe an integrity and a mild sophistication enough in it that I'm not trying to pander to anyone.
[17:49]And I don't know.
[17:51]Oh, and Culver's son, who was 18 at the time asked me what also said.
[17:56]He was like, why are you enjoying so popular?
[17:58]And I thought about it for a second.
[17:59]I was like, I think that might be an insult.
[18:01]No, that is not it.
[18:04]Yeah, because it's sort of like they're so simple and so easy.
[18:06]Why do people like them?
[18:07]I was like, I don't know.
[18:08]Yeah.
[18:09]That's funny.
[18:10]Trust a child to say something like that.
[18:12]So what advice would you have for an illustrator, an artist, a child who's,
[18:17]who was like you as a child just sketching and not wanting to stop?
[18:21]How do you have them not give up?
[18:23]Well, there's two things to bring to mind.
[18:25]One, if you look at successful people,
[18:28]there are plenty of successful people that have all drive and little talent.
[18:33]And there are almost no successful people who are all talentless, no drive.
[18:37]But the advice that I generally tend to give young and aspiring artists and illustrators
[18:41]is an Oscar Wilde quote, which is be yourself.
[18:44]Everybody else is already taken.
[18:46]That's a great quote.
[18:47]And what's coming next?
[18:48]What are your next books that we have to look forward to?
[18:50]That's a great question.
[18:51]I don't know.
[18:53]I haven't been on my studio in a while over a year.
[18:55]It's like we were traveling for from the start of last summer.
[18:58]And we got a plan to take a year off the travel.
[19:00]It took us about five years to prepare for it.
[19:02]And so we set off last July end of last July.
[19:05]And we were intending to return just at the end of the summer,
[19:08]but obviously in about February or so that all came sort of crashing to a halt.
[19:13]And we ended up moving somewhere that we don't normally live.
[19:16]And we're, I'm just sort of trying to find a new rhythm and see what's going to happen next.
[19:21]So I do have a book project in mind, but it's too early to say anything.
[19:25]And if that doesn't work, frankly, I had no idea.
[19:28]Are there more crayons books coming?
[19:31]No, the last one, the crayons Christmas has come out.
[19:35]And I think it was, I think there was another like a crayons book of colors.
[19:40]Or, you know, something that was like a concept book like that.
[19:43]I think the art was made quite some time ago, but I think that's already coming.
[19:46]So yeah, that's, that's that.
[19:48]That's it ended the line for the crayons because they really quit.
[19:51]Okay.
[19:52]Well, thank you for coming on the show.
[19:54]Thanks for all the hours of great quality time that I've spent with my children because of you.
[20:00]and best of luck with the new book.
[20:01]And thank you.
[20:03]Thank you for having me on
[20:05]and I appreciate the time words.
[20:06]Bye bye.
[20:07]Bye bye.
[20:08]I hope you've enjoyed day three of the book blast.
[20:10]I hope you listen to the whole week of episodes.
[20:12]Share some with your kids too.
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[20:47]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[21:01]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[21:03]for the Sound Editing.
[21:05]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[21:06]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.