Jenna Bush Hager, EVERYTHING BEAUTIFUL IN ITS TIME

[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[0:13]Please sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com for weekly updates about my podcast, events, and more.

[0:20]Also, follow me on Instagram at zibiowens and also at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[0:26]And finally, join my virtual book club called Zibi's virtual book club, which meets every other Tuesday at 2 p.m.

[0:32]Eastern Time until 3 p.m. and features half an hour of book club discussion, followed by 30 minutes of Q&A with the author whose book we've just discussed.

[0:41]You can sign up on my website zibiowens.com under the virtual book club section or even on Instagram, under the link in my bio.

[0:49]I hope you'll find me in all these different channels and enjoy this podcast.

[0:53]Today's episode has been sponsored by SugarWish. SugarWish is an online gifting site that provides a delightful gift experience

[1:00]followed by delicious treats. They get to choose delivered directly to their dorm. Here's how it works.

[1:06]A sugar-wish can be sent to anybody. So if you're the recipient, you open up an email and it says

[1:11]someone is sent you a sugar-wish and you open it up, you click and it says pick any four of these

[1:16]delicious candies to fill your basket. So you get to look through everything from gummy worms and

[1:22]skittles and jelly beans and everything and you click and then check it out and it's sent to you

[1:30]in this beautiful box with all these candies inside and a ribbon and it's just beautifully packaged

[1:36]and sent right to your door and so somebody basically you get to customize your own gift and it's really

[1:42]awesome and I did this and I sent them to my son at boarding school and we got some here for Halloween

[1:47]and I highly, highly recommend this company. Definitely go check it out sugarwish.com.

[1:54]I was so happy to talk to Jenna Bechhager. I listened to her book Everything is Beautiful and it's time

[2:00]seasons of loss and love on Audible and I listened to her as I crisscross Central Park a million times

[2:07]and by the time I talked to her I felt like I knew her. Anyway, now I do. Jenna Bechhager is the co-host

[2:13]of the fourth hour of the Today Show with Hoda and the founder of the Today Book Club read with Jenna.

[2:19]She is the co-author of the number one New York Times best-selling Anna's story and two

[2:24]children's books. Our great big backyard and read all about it which she wrote with her mother Laura

[2:29]as well as the number one New York Times bestsellers sisters first oh I read that too written

[2:34]with her sister Barbara in both adult and children's editions. She currently lives with her husband

[2:39]and three children in New York City and by the way her current book club pick is room on alums

[2:45]leave the world behind and I just had him on my podcast too so that episode should be right before

[2:49]or after this one. Welcome Jenna. Thank you so much for coming on momstone have time to read books.

[2:55]I love, I love your podcast and sometimes moms do have time to read so I'm so happy to be here.

[3:02]Well I feel like you and I are united in our desire to help other people read more.

[3:06]Like we are I love shouting at to good books and you pick all your books for all of America to

[3:11]enjoy so I feel like we're on the same page. So tell listeners more about everything beautiful

[3:19]and it's time which by the way I listened to on all my walks with the dogs back and forth across

[3:24]the park and it was so great and I was like crying in central park and it was just amazing so

[3:29]you've been like coming with me and all my walks lately. Well first of all I have to tell you

[3:34]recording that audio book. It was in the middle of the pandemic and the book is about the 13 months

[3:40]I lost my three remaining grandparents so it was a really difficult time for me and so recording the

[3:48]audio book Henry was like my husband was like I came home with just the puffiest eyes and I said the

[3:54]poor recording technician who you know was like I got this assignment had no idea he would be

[4:00]you know passing me Kleenexes and he kept just saying like do you need a minute he was so kind

[4:06]and thoughtful but I said it was like reliving you know these moments that were difficult but I wrote

[4:13]I wrote this book I started writing it really for myself I the night that my grandmother

[4:19]Barbara died I was alone in my apartment in New York City my husband was in Texas and my sister

[4:25]who at the time lived in the city was in Texas and I just was watching the news and one of the

[4:31]things that's really hard and interesting at that she taught us was that losing somebody publicly

[4:38]is difficult and so I turned on the news and there were all these in memorials and news reports

[4:43]about her and at first I just couldn't stop watching and then I was overcome by the fact that you

[4:50]know obviously they were just talking about hers Barbara Bush the politicians wife and there

[4:56]was so much about organic that wouldn't be said that night just wouldn't you know there was no

[5:01]reason for it to be except for that's how I knew her you know and nobody knew her as intimately as we did

[5:07]and so I turned off the news and I wrote her a letter and that was really the beginning of this book

[5:14]and I used writing a lot in my own life as a way to heal as a way to process so then I just decided

[5:22]to publish it but it started off for me amazing well that's how the best stuff comes out right it's

[5:28]like truthful from the heart what you need and turns out other people need it too so and

[5:34]isn't it true that you weren't there because you had strapped through it which you caught from

[5:38]your daughter which is like just a typical mom thing to have had happen I mean I went to the doctor

[5:44]my dad was like if you have strep throat you can't go because obviously my grandmother was dying

[5:49]but also my grandpa was there and and I and I just knew I had it and my daughter Mila had had it

[5:56]that week before and of course you know moms are so close with our kids I remember when

[6:02]Mila got the stomach flu and I called my parents to tell her you know when I when she was a brand

[6:07]new baby that Henry and I were up all night cleaning up you know her mess my parents just last

[6:13]knowingly they were like oh now now you will be getting things like the stomach bug that you just

[6:19]haven't had since you were in third grade yourself but yeah I so I couldn't go to see her but

[6:25]I did get to have a conversation with her before she passed away which was profound and meaningful

[6:30]for me oh and you know what you said about it being a public occurrence at the same time you had

[6:37]a scene in your book where you're pushing Mila and holding poppy and you're walking down the

[6:42]the street and you got like a hundred text messages all at the same time and you're like oh no it

[6:46]happened and you had to like back check and figure it out and I could just so see you on like

[6:51]just like any other mom you know but here it is like a huge public figure like how do you like

[6:56]even wrecking reconciles something like that when you have it coming at you in every direction

[7:01]yeah I mean I don't know it's so funny and I probably just like any other mom you know and

[7:08]we live in a place where we're walking everywhere around New York City and there's just been so

[7:13]many moments where and I try I really do try to put my phone away and be especially when

[7:21]they were really little like and they didn't get the fact that like you know why I was holding

[7:26]this thing and looking here instead of in them so that day I put my phone away I played with

[7:31]them at the park I'd watch them play I hadn't been looking at anything and then when we got up to

[7:35]leave I checked the phone to see the time and I had so many text messages from I was telling

[7:41]her to the other day one from our old boss who was like let me know if you need me I mean that was

[7:45]the first text and I was like why would I need anybody yeah and and there was and I my parents had

[7:52]tried to call that I hadn't and my phone was away but they they my grandmother had said she was

[7:56]going to seek comfort care which I didn't even had really never even heard those words I didn't

[8:02]have context for them I didn't know what that meant and so it was you know the five block home

[8:07]was very distracted and I and I tried not to be that way but I just was trying to figure out what

[8:13]was happening while I had one scooting child and one you know toddler in her stroller and you know

[8:19]it's just I feel like moms dads parents but maybe particularly moms like we just have to make

[8:27]it work I mean I remember when I had little kids and I got sick for the first time I was like

[8:32]what's going to happen and it's like you're not going to be sick you know I parent no matter what

[8:38]you have to parent through it all and I think that's it's sometimes a you know exhausting part of

[8:45]it all like when you're grieving when you are hurting I don't know so many people right now feel

[8:51]exhausted by everything but also kids can be the most beautiful distraction the things that they

[8:58]say I mean my girls like healed me what they said and I know I have a baby boy but I didn't

[9:04]have him at the time but what they said about their great grandparents all three of them who they

[9:09]lost and who I lost the little things that they said which I wrote down in this book and I'm so

[9:14]happy because otherwise I would never remember the little things they said and did I think

[9:20]brought me this beautiful piece and they're so wise our children are and I think if you want to

[9:27]feel good put your phone away try to not think about the news of the day and listen to what

[9:35]your kids say write it down because they say the most hilarious beautiful things and I know

[9:44]they've been a major comfort to me and not that I felt like you know I hope I don't put that on

[9:49]them that's one distinction I'm trying you know I'm not like how should I feel better but

[9:54]just by listening to the funny quirky beautiful way they see the world

[10:00]I feel like it can be a wonderful comfort.

[10:03]I completely agree.

[10:04]I went through a loss recently.

[10:05]And I have four kids.

[10:06]And they were so amazing because they

[10:08]can be supportive, like they'll come over and hug.

[10:11]But then they just say the crazy things that they say,

[10:13]because they're kids.

[10:14]And I wasn't smart enough to write all of them down.

[10:16]But I know, write them down when we get off.

[10:18]Write them down when we're done today,

[10:20]because you'll want to remember them later.

[10:23]No, you're so true.

[10:25]I mean, grief is so unpredictable.

[10:27]And you had so much so quickly,

[10:30]such a huge part of your family.

[10:31]And it's nice to have had that outlet, at least.

[10:33]And of course, you're not using them for it.

[10:35]But you just have to.

[10:37]You have to have the choice to stay in bed and dwell in it.

[10:42]You can't, as a parent.

[10:43]So you just have to figure out how to make it all work

[10:45]at the same time.

[10:46]And even you wrote in the book about having a meeting at work,

[10:50]and then almost missing the bus pick up for your daughter.

[10:54]And I feel like I've been in that same situation

[10:56]so many times, like pick up.

[10:59]Anyway, why is this so relatable?

[11:01]It's so stressful of all things.

[11:03]I mean, this particular day, and actually,

[11:05]it's so funny, because they're people

[11:07]that I was at this lunch meeting with.

[11:10]Remember, like, I was just felt like I was on fire.

[11:12]It was the beginning of the year.

[11:13]I had it to do list.

[11:14]I was like, really, I was wearing heels.

[11:17]Like, I never, and I mean, I wear heels every day at work.

[11:19]And then I take them off.

[11:20]And I put on their throne right here on the ground.

[11:22]And these, like, boots, these clog, mom boots, you know?

[11:26]Like, no, they're cute.

[11:27]They're cute.

[11:28]They're cute.

[11:29]Thank you.

[11:30]I can run in those.

[11:31]I cannot run in high heel knee-high boots,

[11:34]but it was the beginning of January.

[11:35]And I was wearing them to prove to myself

[11:38]that this year was going to be new.

[11:40]It was going to be a different year.

[11:41]And of course, I forgot me let the bus stop.

[11:43]So I mean, the amount of times, even in the short months

[11:46]that my girl months, weeks, feels like months,

[11:50]been a couple weeks since my kids

[11:52]have been in school.

[11:55]The amount of times I've been racing to the bus stop,

[11:58]I can't even tell you almost every day.

[12:01]I once ran through the Central Park Transverse.

[12:04]Like, where the cars are to try to get to curriculum night

[12:07]on time, like, all dressed up and all this stuff.

[12:09]And it's just so funny when you think about the city.

[12:12]And all these, like, moms, like, running, not just moms.

[12:15]But you know, like, all the running at your places on time.

[12:19]And like, what we do to make it work here, you know?

[12:22]And by the way, that was one of the,

[12:23]I like, that was in a moment where I really,

[12:25]and I have them often, but really love New York City

[12:28]because I was running and like, the UPS guy was like,

[12:31]you got a girl, the other mom was like, I've been there.

[12:35]You know, it was just like, to feel supported

[12:37]by your community in a moment of complete panic and shame

[12:41]is very.

[12:43]Yes, as opposed to driving like maniac and, you know,

[12:45]all that risk.

[12:47]Exactly.

[12:48]You know, another part of your book that I really

[12:50]responded to is when you were talking about your Aunt Dory

[12:53]and how she bought the dress for the funeral.

[12:56]Yeah.

[12:57]And your grandmother was more of a spend thrift.

[12:59]And she didn't want people to waste money on clothes.

[13:01]And she bought this special dress and then went to the mirror

[13:04]and the mirror fell on the ground.

[13:06]And she took it as a sign that her mom was upset.

[13:09]And she went and returned the dress.

[13:10]And she was such a beautiful message

[13:12]to her of what your interpretation of that was.

[13:14]Can you just share a little of that?

[13:16]Yeah.

[13:17]You know, my grandmother was a force.

[13:20]And she definitely was like, she took on things, like private pain,

[13:25]things we didn't know.

[13:26]And she was, she was, took it on.

[13:28]You know, she was an enforcer.

[13:29]We didn't necessarily know why she was the way she was.

[13:34]You know, she was private.

[13:35]And, and also very transparent at the same time.

[13:38]So I'm not sure if that makes sense.

[13:40]But, but towards the end of her life,

[13:43]we were in Maine once a month.

[13:44]And I came down the stairs early.

[13:46]And I still picture her when I think about her

[13:49]in this little screened-in porch early in the morning.

[13:52]She would write in her journal and write letters to her friends

[13:55]and, and do, you know, a little bit of work, read the newspaper.

[13:59]And so when I think of her now, that's where I imagine her.

[14:02]But I came downstairs.

[14:04]And she, it was early, it was before the sun came up.

[14:06]And she was in a particularly sharing way, sharing mood.

[14:11]And so she told me a lot about her growing up.

[14:15]And she grew up with a mother that would say things

[14:18]like, you know, oh, Martha, who was her sister is the beauty.

[14:22]And you were the funny one.

[14:24]And then she, her mother passed away in a car accident.

[14:27]And she had a stepmother that reinforced that.

[14:30]Luckily, she had a dad who thought she was brilliant and hilarious

[14:34]and told her she could do anything she ever wanted to.

[14:36]So, but I think I do think, and I don't know.

[14:39]This is just my opinion.

[14:40]When I heard these stories, I felt her pain.

[14:44]Like, and I just couldn't imagine as a mother myself.

[14:48]And as somebody that's been raised by a woman who was gracious and loving

[14:53]and loved Barbara and I unconditionally and equally,

[14:56]even though we were so different and we were never compared,

[14:59]thank goodness for me.

[15:01]You know, I just couldn't imagine being that little girl that

[15:05]heard over and over, don't eat that, Barbara.

[15:08]You know, and felt less than in her appearance.

[15:12]And my grandmother definitely had a way about her where she would sometimes

[15:16]make comments, you know?

[15:17]And I could tell like afterwards she would feel like, why did I do that?

[15:21]But she would say things like, you know, she would comment on our clothes

[15:25]or maybe after freshman year in college when everybody

[15:29]gains a little bit.

[15:30]There would be a comment about how we would look.

[15:32]And what I understood about her in that moment,

[15:36]sitting having that conversation about her childhood,

[15:39]was that any of that, any of that part of who she was,

[15:43]was, was really a reflection of how she was raised

[15:46]and that she was in some ways talking to that little girl.

[15:50]You know, she was, she was saying to herself,

[15:53]oh, look, why do you look like that?

[15:55]Like she didn't mean it to us.

[15:57]And so when my aunt Doro bought this dress and thought,

[16:00]God, mama, I think this is too expensive.

[16:02]I should take it back in the mirror of fell.

[16:04]And that was Doro's interpretation.

[16:06]I said, well, maybe she was thinking, stop worrying about the way you look.

[16:10]And the interesting thing about her is that she was a complicated woman.

[16:15]She didn't in some ways worry about the way she looked.

[16:18]She famously said, talking about your hair is boring.

[16:22]She let her hair go gray probably before she was even my

[16:25]inch in her 30s.

[16:27]But I do think deep down there was some pain that was never really resolved.

[16:32]And so when I think she was telling my aunt who is beautiful and incredible,

[16:38]you know, don't waste your time on earth worrying about things like that,

[16:42]which is so hard because so many of us, as women have that little voice

[16:47]and us that breaks us for certain things.

[16:50]And I think what she was saying is don't waste your time looking in the mirror,

[16:53]criticizing yourself.

[16:55]I love that because it's like giving permission to stop sort of

[16:58]self-flagellating in a way, you know, being so self-critical.

[17:01]Yes.

[17:02]I actually, I recently started in addition to this podcast,

[17:05]moms don't have time to lose weight because I feel like so many moms,

[17:08]like with COVID in particular have been like at home and losing, you know,

[17:11]gaining weight in their class.

[17:12]It's all upset and all the rest.

[17:13]And then as I was like focusing on that and listening to your book,

[17:17]I like sat at my computer and then I saw that now you're doing,

[17:20]move with Jenna at 11 o'clock on the today show.

[17:23]I'm like doing amazing.

[17:25]I'm doing move with Jenna.

[17:26]I'm not the women's actually working now.

[17:27]But yes, we are doing it.

[17:29]I mean, I always like to move for mental health.

[17:33]Like I like to go for long walks.

[17:35]Hoda and I've been doing outdoor classes here in the city right after work.

[17:40]Otherwise it's hard to go.

[17:41]Like when to get home and you're with the kids and I have a new baby who's always home,

[17:44]like forget it.

[17:45]You know, once I see his little face, it's hard to motivate to get to go away from him.

[17:50]And so I always think it's important to move.

[17:53]Bring it.

[17:53]I will tell you that I did the show from home on Zoom for two months, three months.

[17:59]And when you're at home on Zoom, like you're wearing sweatpants on the bottom,

[18:02]you don't have to zip up a dress.

[18:04]And all of a sudden, the world comes back and you're like, whoa,

[18:09]wow, that caught you all you pet babe and cooking from Joanne again.

[18:11]Book book is really caught up with me.

[18:15]But you're right.

[18:16]It's like it's best to not dwell, you know, just do things that make you feel good.

[18:21]And if you do that, you know, then hopefully the COVID-15, the COVID-19,

[18:26]as I like to say, will come off.

[18:28]Yes.

[18:29]So tell me a little bit more about your writing.

[18:31]When do you like to write?

[18:32]Where do you do it?

[18:33]Is it like in your bed at night or are you, you know, tell me, give me a visual here?

[18:37]I'm a morning writer for sure.

[18:40]And it's tricky because I wake up soup.

[18:43]I mean, I work in morning television.

[18:45]So I'm already waking up early.

[18:47]So for this book in particular,

[18:49]once I decided, you know, I always write in a journal,

[18:53]one thing that my husband and I do, which we brought back today,

[18:56]although he hasn't texted me back,

[18:57]we didn't need to do it for a while because we were never

[19:00]away from each other, never apart.

[19:03]But now that I'm starting coming back to work,

[19:05]we text each other three, like really specific things that we're grateful for.

[19:11]Because I like waking up that way.

[19:13]I like having my mind like focus on the really good instead of the bad.

[19:18]And I also like sharing those little insights with him and having him share his with me.

[19:23]They're not about each other necessarily, although sometimes they are.

[19:26]And so I always write in a journal in the morning,

[19:29]but for this book, when I was writing writing,

[19:32]I would set the alarm for about four in the morning.

[19:34]I would write in our office slash guest room slash play rooms.

[19:39]You know, it's like the New York's where you have nowhere to write,

[19:42]except for this one little den where I wouldn't wake up the kids and Henry.

[19:46]And so I did that at least three days a week.

[19:49]And then right after the show at 11,

[19:51]I would go over in my office at 30 Rock.

[19:53]And I would try to just continue for an hour or two before my mind had nothing left to give.

[19:59]I read it.

[20:00]night. I read for for pleasure and for fun every night before I go to bed that I try, but I want it to be fun. I don't want it to be work. And so yeah, I cannot write at night. I can I can't really do much at night. I mean it's like I have this much left to give because my mornings are so big. And then by the time the kids go to bed, I just have, you know, an hour or two with Henry to try to decompress and then that's, that's it.

[20:27]Yeah, I have so much respect when people are like, yeah, let's like go meet up at this time or why don't you get do all your emails late and I'm like, I am fried. Yeah, I agree. And I also think even like any sort of arguments any sort of anything that's not great happens in those hours. So your rope is done. You know, it's short.

[20:48]Just a tiny fuse. Oh my gosh. And tell me about the reading for read with Jenna. How do you think about well, it's been such a really fun part of my job because I just love to read. So I read about I'm reading now for February. So I read or January and February. I read about six months in advance.

[21:09]And which is so fun. I mean, I love that I get to get some of these books and get a forms and read them and be one of the first like maybe besides the editors and other people that have book clubs and obviously the indie book stores owners who get to read this work. I don't know. It feels really like a privilege.

[21:29]We look for books that are debut authors and many cases we want new voices voices that may not always get the attention. We like diverse voices voices from all over the world or country people that look different and have different experiences.

[21:45]And then just really books that move us books that move me books that I stay up late into the night reading books that I know will inspire because I've been in a book club. We know throughout my life and different iterations and different towns.

[21:58]I know what will inspire really cool wonderful conversations.

[22:02]And so that's really what goes into it and it's just so much fun.

[22:07]You have to come to my book club. I started a virtual book club. I have like a thousand members. Anyway, you should come. It's really fun.

[22:12]Yes, I'm looking around my office, but I don't know if you've read leave the world behind.

[22:17]Yes, I just had Vermont on my podcast yesterday. I really love you.

[22:21]I hope you told her myself. Hi, you probably didn't, but he is brilliant.

[22:25]Yes, so awesome.

[22:27]And did you read this with your book club?

[22:30]Yeah, but you know what, we should do it. We hardly have any mail. You read it. I read it myself, but I haven't assigned it to my book club yet, but I think that's a really great idea.

[22:38]It's so, so good, isn't it? Yeah, maybe we will do that. That's a great idea.

[22:42]If you ever need help, call me up. I'm happy to be part of a book club one month. Let me do it. Yeah, maybe the two of you can like do it together or something. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure you've been a read him.

[22:51]I mean, anyway, that was awesome.

[22:54]So you have like so much going on. What's coming next for you? You were like turning out books and kids and TV shows and all the rest.

[23:03]When each book there's a new kid. No, nothing is next for me. I'm just going to slow down a little bit. And I mean, obviously, the show is on every single day, which is so much fun.

[23:14]And it's been a really wonderful distraction in this world that we live in to sit next to somebody that I admire as much as Hoda and have conversations that feel light and I hope build with goodness and positivity.

[23:29]That's so awesome. And I think what it's taught me is like before the pandemic. We were in a studio with lights and people and music and a DJ and Oprah.

[23:40]You know, I mean, it was like the pinnacle of where we wanted the show to go and then all the sudden I was at home on his ring light with my phone and Hoda on FaceTime.

[23:53]And it didn't matter. Like in some ways, I mean, I miss, obviously, I miss being close to her. I missed with our team. I miss the audience and the studio.

[24:05]But regardless, I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed our conversations. And I think what this has shown me is that it's stripped down to what's really important.

[24:13]And like, thank goodness, she and I really like each other and have fun talking to each other and have, you know, because otherwise it would have been really difficult.

[24:24]And so I think it's proven really to all of us that it's stripped things down and only the most important things matter.

[24:32]And so I feel so lucky that even, you know, with the ring light and a phone and that separated my distance. It was still such a pleasure to do the show every single day.

[24:41]And so funny that you like didn't even think you wanted this job to begin with and that like you wasn't at your grandfather. It was like, well, maybe we should watch the show, which is so funny.

[24:50]So most obvious and also like it's a humiliation that I was that that wasn't something that would have come into play that I was a teacher.

[24:58]So he was like, so do you ever see this thing they called the today show? And I was like, nope.

[25:02]I'm in school by seven in the morning, but we have we watched it together and they gave me some great advice and my grandmother was like, you just always take the meeting.

[25:11]And I think that that's, that's, you know, even though I make some I just want to be home, as we said, and my pajamas by eight o eight p.m. I think that advice of always taking the meeting being ready for whatever life's going to throw at you next is really good advice.

[25:27]So it's always take the meeting but try to schedule it in the morning.

[25:31]Okay.

[25:33]What other advice might you have for aspiring authors?

[25:38]I mean, I just think right right all the time and the other advice, which is so like this was the advice of my fourth grade teacher, Ms. cutting him in Dallas, Texas. She said, you are a good writer and nobody had really told me.

[25:52]I mean, I have a sister who is an academic who got into every Ivy League school she applied to she missed one question on the SAT she's brilliant.

[26:00]And I struggled like in math, my dad was sitting around the kitchen table and be like, okay, let's get to multiplication.

[26:06]But I to have it somebody put that faith in me, you know, like, oh, this is where you're going to go. This is what you're interested in and you have talent in this.

[26:15]I will never forget it. And what she said to me, the advice is read, read, read, good writers brilliant writers and it's so true.

[26:23]And now I get to and you get to, I'm sure, talk to all of these brilliant authors who I get like I have crushes on.

[26:31]So same way, I guess.

[26:32]And I'm saying I even get nervous. I'm like, oh my God, I know.

[26:37]And by the way, a friend asked me and they were like, who's been the best.

[26:41]And I'm like, oh, this person Kevin Wilson so good and patch it's my good friend. I love him.

[26:45]I'm a strong like all of them are kind and generous of time and of talent and brilliant.

[26:52]And the all of them share the same quality, which is that they love books.

[26:57]They read incessantly.

[26:59]They read everything.

[27:01]And so that's my advice is to read constantly because I mean, it makes sense. Right.

[27:06]Like if you want to be a great artist, you study art, you study the great artists.

[27:10]So if you want to be a great writer, you study the beautiful pieces of writing that we that we get to read.

[27:17]And I just feel like I'm happiest in my bed with a book, possibly a sleeping child, the child needs to be asleep though because otherwise, as you know, moms don't have time to read.

[27:29]And if there's a cat thrown in there, like that's it. That's my very perfect day. Maybe if you believe in the afterlife that's where I'll be in a bed with a cat, a sleeping child and a book.

[27:42]I might be there with a dog.

[27:45]Maybe with some chocolate.

[27:47]Yes, I did say a cheese plate, add some cheese plate in a glass of wine and then that there we go. Yeah, that that's that that's pretty much is it. That's all we really need.

[27:56]Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much for coming on mom's no temporary bugs. Thanks for all your great books and entertainment and all the great work you do and for highlighting all the authors so many of whom I've had on my back.

[28:10]So I just, you know, it's amazing. Well, I love talking with you and I love your podcast and and I love that you're trying to get moms reading trying, you know, thank you.

[28:24]Thanks again to today's sponsor sugar wish send a surprise sugar wish to somebody you love and check it out yourself sugar wish dot com.

[28:39]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.

[28:48]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens dot com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week.

[28:55]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.