Sarah Gelman, DIRECTOR OF BOOKS, PR, AND EDITORIAL, AMAZON

2020-12-15 · 44:26 · Sarah Gelman · Podcast Audio

[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

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[1:51]Why not stop into the gift shop? I really enjoyed getting to know Sarah Gellman. Sarah was named after the book her father was reading when she was born.

[1:58]Sarah was destined to be a reader and has spent her career recommending books to readers.

[2:04]She worked at a New York publishing house and was a publicist to many great authors, eventually joining Amazon, where she is currently the director of Amazon Books Editorial.

[2:14]She has appeared on Good Morning America, Access Daily, and has contributed to the bump.com.

[2:19]In addition to hosting Amazon Live Conversations with Mindy Kayleg, Chelsea Clinton, Jay Shetty, Ellen Hilderbrand, and many more.

[2:27]Sarah also regularly writes and curates book selections for the Amazon Book Review.

[2:32]And especially loves women's fiction, memoirs, cookbooks, home design, organizational books, parenting books, and a good multi-generational family saga.

[2:41]She talked to Sarah today about the best books of 2020.

[2:45]All right, welcome Sarah. Thanks so much for doing this special webinar, Facebook, podcast, triple threat.

[2:54]I'm so excited. I feel like I personally can talk about books forever and I feel like you can't do so the fact we only have 30 minutes is very dangerous.

[3:02]I know. I'm like, there's so much I can talk to you about. It's ridiculous.

[3:07]The whole background, everything. But today is like such an exciting day for Amazon to come out with their best books of 2020 and I've gone through every category and it's so exciting.

[3:18]And there were so many books that I had on my podcast, so I'm feeling like really excited about that.

[3:23]So we start by just telling me a little bit about like your role in Amazon and also how this whole best books came to be and how you decide on these best books.

[3:34]Yeah, so many things to unpack. So my role in Amazon to take a step back. I've been at Amazon for 11 years.

[3:40]And I came to Amazon. I moved from New York where I worked at Random House. It was just Random House then, no penguin.

[3:47]And I have just been a passionate reader of my whole life. I feel so lucky that this is what I get to do for my job and I've always gotten to do it.

[3:55]I guess if I, when my kids are college age, maybe I wouldn't say be an English major, but it has worked out for me. So that's been great.

[4:03]And so at Amazon, I have been on the PR side for a long time, but I've always worked at the bookstore.

[4:09]And even when I was working with different orbs, I was always working with books and with the editorial team there.

[4:15]And about a year and a half ago, I came back from my last fraternity leave last in a lot of different ways.

[4:22]And I was approached about this job to lead the books editorial team, which is a team that I worked with for 11 years.

[4:28]And I admire and I always felt like they were my people and it's really just sort of a dream.

[4:34]We're a team of passionate readers. There are six editors and myself and we all have different backgrounds in the business. Anything from one editor is an author herself.

[4:47]Someone is an editor for Random House, we used to work together way back.

[4:51]There are people that have worked at different booksellers, people on the sales side.

[4:55]And we all basically are bringing our own background in books and our own expertise in genre knowledge to this team.

[5:02]And we come up with a list every month called the best books of the month.

[5:06]And we're reading right now we're reading for February 2020. So we read a few months in advance.

[5:12]And we're reading books that publishers and independent authors present to us.

[5:17]And we all read in different genres. And then once we find something we love, we have someone else read it occasionally there's a book we all read because we're so excited about it.

[5:24]And we come up with a list of our top 10 books every month.

[5:29]This year, very rarely we come up with the top 12 when we can't decide on just 10 this year we've had five months of top 12 which is the most top 12s we've ever had.

[5:39]And it made choosing the best books of the year that much harder because there were more top 10 books to look at.

[5:45]But we're doing best books so top 10 or 12 every month and then top books in every different category.

[5:51]So everything from all the different ages for children zero to two three to five on up to young adult.

[5:57]We also look at cooking food and wine, literature and fiction, mystery and thriller nonfiction memoir like literally every category we are reading those books and trying to pick the best books for people.

[6:09]They don't have to do that themselves and it's all based on our taste it's not based on sales or co-op dollars from publishers it is 100% the books that we read and are excited about we're reading every single one of them.

[6:23]And you have to love reading to this job because there's a lot of reading and I love it I just I would read all day if I could.

[6:29]So then we do best books of the year so far in June and that's books from we start January to June we look at those six months what's the best book so far.

[6:39]The best book of the year so far was the girl with the Latin voice by Abby Dara issues amazing I got to interview her in June and it just is such a great book and really an uplifting book to which I felt like we really needed in June.

[6:54]When we look at the best books of the year which we released every year around this time period we look at all the books from those, you know, the sick for six months and then everything else and we also ask ourselves.

[7:05]Did we miss a book which should we never want to miss anything.

[7:08]So sometimes when a pub date changes we will miss a book because we've already you know had our top 10 list and we can't put it in or another case would be like the Obama book for instance, we weren't able to read that until it came out on Tuesday so we couldn't consider it because we already had our best books of November.

[7:25]So we basically are and then we we decided on the top 20 the old fashioned way we basically sit around normally we sit around a table this year we sat around the video call and we we argue we fight about our favorites this year we had some very very passionate discussions that ended with people leaving a call angry but we all agreed at the end on the top 10 list which is just the most important.

[7:48]In the top 20 and then we work our way up to 100 so we are you know you all we all come in and we're sort of like fighting for our own favorite someone on the team once told me when I just joined the team like you can't fight for every book that you love like.

[8:05]And you're basically making your case to the other members of the team and you know we really aimed to have something for everyone to like they're not all fiction they're not on non fiction we always have a debut book every month in our top two so yeah we we take this duration really seriously because people just don't have that much time to read and so we want to help them discover the very best books.

[8:29]Well, I'm glad that you are reading now for February because my anthology is coming out in February, I actually have it digitally and I think that an advanced copy is on its way to me and I'm so excited to read that oh good awesome.

[8:43]Okay well let's talk about the winners if you don't mind can we like go through.

[8:50]So you have one overall winner but then you have the top 20 books in general but before I go through like the whole list I just wanted to go tell you which ones from all the categories I've had on my podcast in case people want to go back and listen.

[9:04]and maybe so you know like I don't know which ones I thought were really awesome too, but in addition to the 20 you picked per category good morning monster, the beauty and breaking.

[9:14]Wandering and strange lands I should probably say the authors beauty and breaking by Michelle Harper good morning monster by Catherine Gildner wandering in strange lands by Morgan,

[9:23]all because you matter the children's by Tammy Charles black brother black brother by jewel Parker roads I wonder if no one can remember all these while I'm like rattling them out I'm going to publish this somewhere but.

[9:34]right is about both Wilkerson about interview her memorial by Brian Washington writers and lovers by Willy King, the Jane Austin society by Natalie Jenner, Lester a novel by Ravenly Lonnie una out of order.

[9:47]Margarita Monty more the last flight by Julie Clark pretty things to know brown long bright river liz more uncomfortable conversations with a black man Emmanuel acho wine girl can't even beach read party.

[10:00]to Dragon Hoops.

[10:01]Okay, so those are my categories.

[10:02]I just had to get those out there.

[10:04]I think those books and I'm like,

[10:05]they feel like my friend,

[10:06]but I wanted to jump in,

[10:07]like I love the book Una Out of Order.

[10:10]It's one of my favorite books of the year.

[10:12]And I love that idea of like,

[10:15]no matter what you do,

[10:16]you sort of end up in the same place.

[10:17]And I feel like we saw a lot of books

[10:19]with that theme this year,

[10:21]whether it was,

[10:22]why Rebecca Searle,

[10:23]the in five years book is just,

[10:25]yeah, I mean, it's also the Invisible Life,

[10:29]which is another book I love that's in the top 20.

[10:31]Just, I love that trend.

[10:33]I'm sliding doors is my favorite movie.

[10:35]Me too.

[10:36]That's me.

[10:37]Oh my gosh.

[10:37]No, I say that all the time.

[10:39]Best movie.

[10:40]Yes.

[10:41]And her ever.

[10:41]Oh my gosh.

[10:42]Because I always think like,

[10:44]is this one little tiny decision I'm making

[10:46]gonna affect my entire life.

[10:48]And that movie was like,

[10:49]yes, it will.

[10:51]And also, I don't know if you've interviewed Jay Shaddie,

[10:55]the author,

[10:56]he wrote this book think like a month.

[10:58]He was amazing.

[11:00]I just like,

[11:00]that book gives me chills.

[11:02]And it literally changed my life.

[11:04]And he talks about kind of trying to find

[11:08]the silver lining or the positive and things.

[11:10]And honestly, since I've read that book,

[11:12]I am always looking for the reason behind something

[11:15]and trying to put a positive spin on it.

[11:17]Whether it's something really tragic.

[11:19]Like, I know that you have kids

[11:20]that are sick at home right now

[11:22]and thinking about like,

[11:23]what is the good that is coming from this right now?

[11:25]But that book has helped me out on this year.

[11:28]Yeah, I'm trying to find the meaning behind all of it.

[11:31]I actually said to my husband the other day,

[11:32]I was like, you know,

[11:33]maybe all this is happening.

[11:35]You losing your mom and your grandma and the kids

[11:38]all getting sick.

[11:38]And you know, I feel like I'm like meant to be a messenger

[11:41]like to let people know.

[11:42]And he was like,

[11:44]everyone on the planet knows about this.

[11:46]He's like, I hate to break and do,

[11:47]but like, you know, anyone in the world

[11:50]already heard about it.

[11:51]So that can't be it,

[11:52]but who knows who knows why things happen.

[11:54]Okay, so the top 20 that you guys picked,

[11:58]including the number one,

[11:59]I should do this backwards.

[12:01]Number 20, Midnight Sun by Stephanie Meyer,

[12:03]19, the Invisible Life of Adele Rose,

[12:05]you just discussed B. Schwab,

[12:07]Deacon King Kong by James McBride.

[12:09]Pretty things right to no brown.

[12:11]Oh, I already said that.

[12:12]Saigon, a misfits memoir of great books,

[12:14]punk rock and the fight to fit in by Fu Tran.

[12:18]Una Anna Order, which we're just talking about,

[12:20]Lester, Raven Leilani,

[12:21]a burning mega madroom dar,

[12:23]dear child, Romie Houseman,

[12:25]Mexican Gothic, Silvia Moreno Garcia,

[12:28]hidden Valley Road inside the Mind of American Family

[12:30]by Robert Colker, Memorial by Brian Washington,

[12:34]which I had on the girl with the Latin voice,

[12:36]Abi Darre,

[12:36]it cased as Velo Kritzen,

[12:38]50 words for rain,

[12:39]Aisha Lemmy,

[12:40]the vanishing half-fit Bennett,

[12:41]I've had her on group by Kristi Tate, her tomb,

[12:44]blacktop, wasteland, and novel essay,

[12:46]Cosby, migrations by Charlotte McConaughey,

[12:49]had her on.

[12:49]And I haven't read this book

[12:51]and now I'm so excited too because it's your number one

[12:53]and knock at midnight a story of hope justice and freedom

[12:56]by Brittany Barnett.

[12:58]Oh my gosh, tell me about this book.

[12:59]I don't even know about this book.

[13:01]You know, well, first before I tell you about it,

[13:03]I will say that last year's number one pick

[13:06]was Margaret Atwood's The Testaments.

[13:07]And that is an amazing book.

[13:09]It is, it was a moment in publishing,

[13:11]sort of like the Barack Obama book.

[13:13]Yes, I just compared Margaret Atwood to Barack Obama.

[13:16]But you know, it's like a thing, a moment.

[13:20]New York Times are writing trend pieces about it.

[13:23]And it definitely deserved to be number one,

[13:25]but it was, I don't wanna say an obvious pick.

[13:27]This is a little less obvious.

[13:29]It's a book that, you know,

[13:30]you're a reader that reads a ton

[13:32]and you haven't read this book.

[13:34]So it makes me really happy that we picked a book

[13:37]that we can help people discover for the first time I hope.

[13:40]This book is a memoir.

[13:42]It is about Brittany Barnett is an incredible person

[13:46]that I'm talking to later today.

[13:48]I'm absolutely in awe of her.

[13:49]She grew up in Texas.

[13:52]Her mother was a drug addict.

[13:54]Her mother was a nurse, I should say.

[13:55]She was also a drug addict.

[13:57]And she was incarcerated when Brittany was young.

[14:00]And Brittany then, I think she saw,

[14:05]I mean, obviously she saw people

[14:06]that were incarcerated as people and not just as statistics.

[14:11]And when she was a little bit older

[14:12]and was studying to be a lawyer,

[14:14]she came up on the case of a woman named Suronda Jones

[14:17]and Suronda reminded her so much of her own mother

[14:20]and her family.

[14:20]She was a young woman who was given a life sentence

[14:24]based on the war on drugs.

[14:25]This harsh life sentence for doing something

[14:28]that was not worthy of a life sentence.

[14:31]It was driving drugs down the highway essentially.

[14:33]And she wasn't expecting to get the sentence.

[14:36]She even left her purse in the car

[14:38]when she went in for her final sentencing.

[14:40]And Brittany, basically,

[14:42]while she's being a lawyer at a corporate firm

[14:45]and working in tax law,

[14:47]she dedicates the rest of her life

[14:49]to helping these people that were served life sentences

[14:53]because of the war on drugs

[14:54]and the disproportionate amount of black Americans

[14:57]that were given life sentences.

[14:59]And she changed the world.

[15:01]It's absolutely amazing.

[15:02]I mean, it is a heartbreaking story.

[15:05]And for me, I grew up in the 80s.

[15:08]And when I hear the war on drugs,

[15:10]I think I thought, yeah, war on drugs.

[15:12]And now I feel ashamed when I think about

[15:16]what that meant for so many families

[15:19]and black families in America.

[15:21]And it was really eye-opening for me.

[15:23]But even for people who it's not eye-opening for,

[15:25]you cannot walk away from this book

[15:27]not being affected by it.

[15:29]And it's also hopeful.

[15:30]I mean, yes, it's incredibly sad in places,

[15:33]but it's a really hopeful book.

[15:35]And it just felt like it came at the right time.

[15:38]There was no other book that we read this year

[15:40]that we felt like really captured

[15:42]what was going on in the country,

[15:44]what we felt like we needed to learn

[15:46]and what was important to read about.

[15:48]So it's just, I mean,

[15:50]I don't wanna say it's a hard book to read,

[15:52]but at times it's hard to read it

[15:54]because it's really true

[15:56]and it's really sad at times.

[15:58]But she is, I mean,

[15:59]a read it because she's an amazing person.

[16:02]And she writes about this idea of representation

[16:05]for children, black children.

[16:07]And when she was growing up,

[16:08]there were no models of black female lawyers.

[16:12]And so she, even though she thought she would become a lawyer,

[16:15]she'd kind of thought like,

[16:16]black women don't become lawyers.

[16:18]And then she met her first black lawyer

[16:20]and basically just it changed her life.

[16:23]And she has changed so many lives.

[16:25]It's just, it's really just an amazing story.

[16:28]And I think too, there's even for people

[16:31]that don't follow this, you know,

[16:32]prison reform or criminal reform,

[16:35]I think most recently,

[16:36]President Trump hardened someone

[16:38]through Kim Kardashian.

[16:40]That woman is in this book.

[16:42]And you don't realize it until the very end,

[16:44]but she's someone that Britney becomes friends with

[16:46]through her visits to these prisons.

[16:48]Like these are real, I don't know, for me,

[16:50]that was like, oh my gosh,

[16:51]I remember watching this on the news.

[16:53]So it's just, you know, it's really,

[16:55]it's really timely, it's really important.

[16:57]It's incredibly inspiring.

[16:58]It made me wanna like go back to my 20s and say like,

[17:02]what else should I be doing with my life?

[17:04]It's really, really remarkable.

[17:06]And she is just like, I'm so in awe of her.

[17:08]Okay, I'm like, as soon as we finish this,

[17:10]I'm gonna email her publicist,

[17:12]try to get her on my podcast.

[17:13]So thank you for that.

[17:15]And I'm doing all of this and being a lawyer,

[17:18]she also started all of these foundations.

[17:20]One of them is called The Buried Alive Project.

[17:22]And it's a project that we're interviewing her later today

[17:26]and people that watch the interview

[17:27]can actually donate to it.

[17:28]And I was looking at the website yesterday.

[17:30]And she has these videos of people coming out of prison

[17:34]and seeing their families for the first time.

[17:36]And one of them is so reset,

[17:37]they're actually wearing masks

[17:38]and whoever is filming it is filming it

[17:40]from inside of a car.

[17:42]And so you know that like they can't get out

[17:44]because they can't get too close

[17:45]to the people that are coming out of the prison.

[17:48]And it's, I told my son, my four-year-old,

[17:53]mommy cried happy tears,

[17:55]like I was sitting on my face and knowing that I was

[17:59]getting on a conference call in five minutes.

[18:01]And I was like, what's my mascara doing?

[18:03]But it just, it really like that idea of taking

[18:07]what you think of as statistics

[18:09]or just sort of nameless people

[18:11]and putting this human face on them.

[18:12]It's just so important.

[18:14]Oh my gosh.

[18:14]Speaking of your son, by the way,

[18:16]I love that in your bio, you mentioned

[18:18]like jumping on the trampoline with your sons

[18:20]is like one of your biggest bastions

[18:21]because literally that's like my,

[18:23]I feel like if there's any hope

[18:24]from the muscles in my legs,

[18:26]it is because of that.

[18:27]It's hard work.

[18:29]I don't hide out.

[18:31]We got the trampoline during quarantine.

[18:33]We were lucky enough to get one.

[18:34]And I remember one of our neighbors

[18:37]like stopping by our yard

[18:38]and I was jumping on the trampoline.

[18:40]I was like, it was like, I had done like a hit workout.

[18:42]I was like, foreign sweat.

[18:45]And I was so embarrassed.

[18:46]I was like, this is really hard work.

[18:48]So, yes, we found a lot.

[18:50]Yeah, anyway, just had to get that out there.

[18:52]So in terms of for authors out there

[18:55]who were like, I really wanna get on this list.

[18:57]What can they do?

[18:58]Like, what are the exact criteria?

[19:00]It doesn't have to.

[19:01]I know it has to come out in the calendar year 2020

[19:04]and you all have to like it and respond to it

[19:06]and find it relevant and timely and everything.

[19:07]But what else?

[19:09]I mean, that's really it.

[19:10]Okay.

[19:11]Yeah, that's it.

[19:13]I mean, it sounds sort of unscientific,

[19:14]but it's really like books that we love

[19:17]and we wanna share with people.

[19:18]And we all do have genres

[19:20]that we sort of specialize in or tend to read in,

[19:23]but really the aim of the list every month.

[19:26]And then I mean, I think a little less so at the end of the year

[19:29]because obviously top 100 is a little different

[19:31]than a top 10 is that if you are someone that says,

[19:34]I only read mysteries and thrillers

[19:36]that you could pick up this book

[19:38]and still find something in it

[19:39]and still think it's great.

[19:41]The sort of like crossover appeal

[19:43]that people talk about in the industry

[19:45]or like genre bending.

[19:47]I mean, that's really, we look for that too.

[19:49]We one of the books that we had talked about

[19:51]that I loved, the invisible life of Addie LaRue.

[19:54]I mean, she has a really hardcore fan base of fantasy fans

[19:58]and this book crossed.

[20:00]over to this kind of general reader. I'm actually not a fantasy reader and I love this book.

[20:06]It's also such a physically beautiful book. I read it on Kindle and I was like, I have to buy this

[20:12]book to have on my shelf. So it's great gift. But that sort of thing like where you can,

[20:17]it's just a book that you could give to anyone. Someone that loves fantasy, someone that loves

[20:21]mistress of thriller, someone that loves nonfiction. I mean, it's funny because I think we were

[20:25]talking about a knock at midnight on the team and there are times that you forget that it's

[20:30]actually nonfiction. And it reminds me of another one of our number one picks educated by Tara West

[20:35]over. I remember my stepmother, I recommended that to my stepmother and she came back and she said like,

[20:41]that was an amazing novel. I said, that's not a novel. That is her life. And but you forget and I think

[20:48]you know, the best books sometimes make you feel like sort of disoriented. Like you're not sure

[20:55]are you reading nonfiction? Are you reading fiction? And the number two pick migration is a novel

[21:01]that at times reads like it's nonfiction and not in a, you know, overly cerebral or dry way,

[21:08]but it's so lifelike. And she's a videographer filmmaker. And you know, so she has that like

[21:15]just visual attention to detail, but that's another whole other incredible book.

[21:21]That was that was also a great book. I interviewed her as well. That was great.

[21:25]One of the hardest books to describe I find it is very hard to like come up with the succinct like

[21:31]you don't want to say it's a novel about climate change. Like I don't think that that hooks people

[21:35]and it's, I mean, this is a good example. It's a, I mean, the package of the book I think is a

[21:41]little unassuming too. It's a, you know, I have it here. I can hold it up. I mean, this doesn't

[21:47]maybe scream like the next huge book, but it's so good. I don't know if I have it here. I don't

[21:54]know the shelf. Yes, I love the cover though. And that's like my favorite color color. I try to like

[21:58]get rid of my bias to blue when I look at books because I'm like, I'm like, stop, you're only

[22:03]liking this cover because you like the color blue. So all of my boys clothes are blue. And

[22:09]they love blue a lot. I'm like, yeah, they sure do love blue. Like I'm the one that buy

[22:13]leather clothes. So what is your go-to genre? Like I love memoir. I like, I love fiction too,

[22:19]but memoir is like my go-to. What's yours? I, you know, I love fiction. And I love, I don't,

[22:25]I mean, I guess I would say like book club type fiction, but I love like a good family saga.

[22:31]Like I want to get in with these characters and I want to live with them for like 200 years.

[22:35]I want to know about every issue they've had like, you know, who's an alcoholic? Who had

[22:43]an affair? Like who said what to whom? And I just like that to me is why I love reading so much.

[22:50]Like I just want to get out of my life and go into this other place and just like be absorbed

[22:55]by these characters. And it's just, you know, I love stories. I love good TV too. Like a good TV

[23:01]story. I just watched the Queen's Gambit. And that, I mean, I know that's a novel too. But like

[23:07]that sort of like character development and surprises. It's just like, I don't know,

[23:12]stories are so amazing. I was just one of my friends just had a baby. And I gave him three

[23:18]books for his baby. I gave him the going to bed book. I gave him giraffes, can't dance, which I love

[23:25]that book so much. And I gave him little blue truck. And I said like when you're, I wrote the note

[23:32]like from my children to this baby. And I said, you know, these are books when you learn to read

[23:37]you'll never be lonely. And that's just sort of how I feel. Like you can never be bored and

[23:41]lonely when you're surrounded by all of these people and all these stories. So yes, that is,

[23:46]I feel like we are sharing a brain or personality or something. No, because like some of the things

[23:51]you're saying, I'm like, I see that all the time. That's my favorite movie. Like that's what I,

[23:55]I feel the same way. I even like a therapist say that to me at my point. Like you will never be lonely

[24:00]if you have a good book. And I'm like, I know that I've been reading my, I mean, I'm sure like me

[24:05]where a bookworm is a kid, right? You've just had like reading us the thing that you just always

[24:09]go to. And like the idea of being bored is not something. I mean, I wish I were bored right now,

[24:14]frankly, but you know, that's not something that I've ever, I don't think I've ever felt. I mean,

[24:19]my, I obsessively plan books for the case. I mean, I was even like going through my journal.

[24:25]It's like books to read on the long weekend. And then it's like, do I read, you know,

[24:30]I mean, I read books and there for pleasure too, but also like books that like there's

[24:35]conversation with friends by Sally Rooney. I have never read that book. I love normal people. I

[24:40]love that book. This show was incredible. She was in love and I want to watch with like my mom or

[24:45]anything, but it's incredible show. And I've never read her second book. And it's like, it's a $10

[24:51]book. I should just buy it, but I keep saving it for like, I'm not sure vacation that I'm not going

[24:58]on. But yes, it's, I just always something to read. That's amazing. Are you a kindle person? Or are

[25:03]you more a hard copy person? I'm both. I really like the convenience on reading on kindle. And when

[25:10]I used to go on vacation back in the, I was going to stay back in the 90s, not in the 90s. In the

[25:15]early ots, when I was in my 20s, I would go on vacation and I would literally take one bag

[25:20]that was all books, all hard covers too, because I worked in publishing and, you know, we started

[25:24]with like trade and our covers with each other. And I love the convenience of going on vacation

[25:29]and just bringing my kindles. And I love, I mean, I think like a lot of parents, I wake up frequently

[25:35]in the middle of the night and being able to read my kindle and having the light built into it,

[25:40]that's not, you know, the bad light is amazing. But I love the sensation of a physical book too.

[25:47]Like I mentioned, I love the beauty of the Ade LaRue book. I got my Obama book in the mail yesterday.

[25:54]That's a book that I bought in hardcover. And then I bought on Audible too, because I love

[26:00]listening to books read by mostly memoirs, read by the people that wrote them. And I had such a

[26:06]like profound experience listening to Michelle Obama's book. I just had my second baby. And I was

[26:11]taking, it was winter. And we were going on a lot of walks outside. And I just listened to that book

[26:16]while I was pushing him in the scroller. And I felt like I was like absorbing her wisdom, you know,

[26:21]about, she seems like such an amazing mother and person. I was like, this is making me a better

[26:26]mother as I listened to this. So I really want to listen to his book too. And then the other night,

[26:32]I started Kristen Hannah's new book. I love everything. I did too. Yeah. Yeah. I started reading that

[26:38]like a week ago or something. Yeah. Two weeks ago? Something. Yeah. We talked about it. I was so,

[26:43]I know. I was so excited when it came. I felt like like kid in a candy shop. I'm like, it cannot wait.

[26:48]So I actually, I wrote about this on our, we have a blog called the Amazon book review that's on

[26:52]Amazon. And I wrote about this on the blog that it was my weekend greeting last week. I started

[26:58]it last Friday. And my colleague, Aaron, who kind of manages the best book program and keeps us all

[27:03]on task. She knows how much I love Kristen Hannah. She would not let me read the book when I received

[27:08]it like a month or so ago because she was like, do not caught up on your December reading yet.

[27:13]And I actually listened to her. I'm such a rule follower. And I caught up on all my reading.

[27:19]But the feeling of like, I remember on Friday nights, my older son sleeps with my husband in our

[27:25]playroom. They have camp outs. He's a terrible sleeper. So he normally ends up in our bed and

[27:30]our baby sleeps through the night, thankfully. But so Friday nights are like most exciting nights

[27:35]for me. I get to like watch my shows and read and do whatever I want. And so Friday night,

[27:41]opened up the advanced copy. And I just had that feeling that washes over you of like,

[27:47]the feeling of opening like the new book when it's really big. And it's like a big fall book or

[27:53]something like that. And it's like, I feel that way about Jonathan Franzen's books. Like, they're

[27:57]like moments. And it's just so satisfying. And I was like, I'm just so happy right now. Like,

[28:02]but I mean, that's great. I'm very happy that all it takes to make me happy is like opening a book.

[28:07]But I really like, I like old formats. It really depends. Like, I love listening to audiobooks

[28:12]when I walk. I do podcasts when I drive, not driving that much these days. But you know, it sort

[28:17]of depends on the format. I only do cookbooks in print. I'm not a digital cookbook person. I love

[28:23]like style wellness books. And I usually like those in print because they tend to be beautiful.

[28:30]And B, I want to be able to like reference them easily. And I'm probably more visual person that way.

[28:36]But I would say I probably mostly read digitally. That was a very long answer to your question.

[28:41]I loved it. No. I mean, by the way, if you're looking for a new, I listened to Jody Patterson's

[28:46]a bold world on audio. You should try that. It's like, I did a lot of car rides back and forth. So

[28:52]by the time I interviewed her, I felt like I completely knew her. And I think that probably

[28:56]creeped you out a little bit. But yeah, I love listening to memoir on Audible. And so I'm just curious.

[29:00]So, you know, with independent bookstores sort of struggling and you're working for Amazon,

[29:06]there's like, obviously Amazon is amazing. And everybody shops there. I mean, who doesn't buy stuff

[29:11]from time? I mean, how could you not? Right? But what about all the independent bookstores out there

[29:16]right now who are going through like a really hard time. And some sort of, I would say, maybe blame

[29:21]Amazon for like their demise. And as such a huge book lover, like I am, how do you deal with that

[29:28]sort of issue, I guess? Well, I guess, I mean, I have two different responses. One is a story.

[29:35]I was at Book Expo a couple years ago, which is for those that don't know sort of like,

[29:40]used to be the big American publishing conference of the year. And I was at a party at night with

[29:46]some of my colleagues. And I, you know, no one's wearing name tags at that point. It's like a party

[29:51]at night. And I went up to, or ended up in a conversation with a bookseller from Randy Day

[29:55]Books, actually in Kansas City. And she...

[30:00]He said, you know, like, oh, and so-and-so.

[30:01]And I said, hi, I'm Sarah Gellman from Amazon.

[30:04]And she kind of said, oh, I'm not going to talk to you.

[30:08]And what I said, you know, I actually,

[30:11]I can't believe I'm forgetting her name,

[30:12]but I'm not going to say it anyway,

[30:13]but I said, you know, whoever.

[30:15]I said, I'm Sarah Gellman.

[30:16]We worked together when I was like,

[30:17]no, I've helped bring Anne Rice to you.

[30:20]And she was like, oh, Sarah.

[30:23]So I mean, I am the same book lover I was, you know,

[30:26]20 years ago, but I worked for a different company.

[30:29]what I see at Amazon is a group of people

[30:32]that care so much about reading.

[30:33]I mean, my team, especially, like,

[30:35]we are just, again, like, when I say we're passionate,

[30:38]like, we fight, like, family.

[30:40]Like, I always say that they're my dysfunctional family,

[30:43]my other dysfunctional family.

[30:45]And also, I mean, the things that people are going through now

[30:48]with the pandemic are just like unprecedented.

[30:50]I mean, feels like the only word that I can say,

[30:53]but independent bookstores do so much good.

[30:56]I mean, whether it's, you know,

[30:58]there are staff picks and people being able to have

[31:00]the serendipity of, like, walking in

[31:01]and seeing a beautiful book in person

[31:03]and wanting to pick it up, being a place for community,

[31:06]a place where they can have book clubs, you know,

[31:08]have different kinds of meetings.

[31:10]I mean, it adds, and readings, of course,

[31:12]like, they add so much value.

[31:14]I think they're incredibly important to support.

[31:17]And I know, I mean, it's funny,

[31:19]I just sent emails from some of my local stores.

[31:22]My local store where I live right now

[31:23]is called Island Books.

[31:24]It's an awesome bookstore.

[31:26]I lived in Washington outside of Seattle.

[31:29]And then actually a former Amazon editor

[31:32]from this team that I'm on now,

[31:34]Tom Nissley owns a book store in Seattle called Finney Books.

[31:38]And then there's one now in a neighborhood,

[31:39]I think it's called Madison Herk Books.

[31:42]And I just sent their newsletters out to some people on my team

[31:45]because I just love how they're still,

[31:48]I mean, Island Books is their amazing.

[31:50]Like, they have always had a program

[31:52]where if you order a book either online or by phone,

[31:55]they will deliver to anyone on the island.

[31:57]So for people that are older

[32:00]and can actually get to their store so easily,

[32:01]like, they get in there currently, drive it to you.

[32:03]They have a box outside where you can, again,

[32:06]order online or call an order

[32:08]and they have like a note onto pick up box outside.

[32:11]They're really, I mean, they're doing an amazing job.

[32:13]I feel like you should do a reality show

[32:15]of your group of editors sitting around talking about books.

[32:19]That would be so fun to watch.

[32:22]I find like, we're like, I think we're endlessly fascinating.

[32:26]And, but I'm also like a total bookner,

[32:28]but like we're, yeah, there's their book jokes.

[32:31]There are a lot of book jokes.

[32:33]I mean, someone in the comments here asks,

[32:34]like, where was Dear Edward?

[32:36]That was one of my best reads.

[32:38]Was that on there?

[32:39]100.

[32:40]I love that book.

[32:40]Maybe I missed it in the category by category

[32:42]when I went through one by one.

[32:44]Maybe I missed it.

[32:44]Anyway, good and glad it's on there.

[32:46]That was really good.

[32:46]Yeah, I really love that book.

[32:48]It's funny.

[32:48]I feel like, I don't know if you have this experience.

[32:50]Like, I loved the present moment piece of that book

[32:54]more than I love the like, or I'm sorry,

[32:57]I love when they're on the plane part better than the part

[33:01]that took place like when he's growing up.

[33:03]Because it reminded me of that book, The Fall,

[33:05]the, is it Noah Holly?

[33:07]I love that book so much.

[33:08]And I don't know.

[33:09]And sort of like that and lost put together.

[33:11]But that's a great book.

[33:13]And that's, I mean, this is so subjective.

[33:15]Like, I mean, there are books that were huge books

[33:18]that aren't on this list and books

[33:19]that people might not have heard of.

[33:21]It's not necessarily about name recognition.

[33:24]It is, it's an imperfect unscientific process.

[33:28]The thing I like about books, about airplane type things

[33:31]or crowds, it's like why people randomly get thrown together

[33:35]and then all their backstories.

[33:37]Right.

[33:37]I always wonder when I'm trapped situation like on a plane

[33:41]or somewhere, like what's everybody else going through

[33:44]or in a spinning room event or something.

[33:46]Like everyone has so many stories going on

[33:48]if only we knew when we saw them.

[33:51]And that could press play and watch them.

[33:53]I mean, that book and, I mean, not to bring up

[33:55]another TV show lost.

[33:56]Like perfect example of that of like, you know,

[33:59]I think it's been a while since I read your Edward

[34:01]that, you know, someone is reflecting on like this woman

[34:04]that seems like they're not feeling well.

[34:05]And then you learn later that she's pregnant.

[34:07]It's just like, yes, you have no idea

[34:09]what these people are going through.

[34:11]And what they're mourning was like.

[34:13]I mean, that's a pretty important lesson to take

[34:15]through life right now in general.

[34:16]You know, you never know what the person behind you

[34:18]at the grocery store just experienced

[34:21]and, you know, they might be being nasty.

[34:22]But yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know.

[34:24]My dream is like one day people walk around with shirts

[34:28]that say, you know, like going through infertility treatments.

[34:32]My mother just died or like, you know,

[34:35]having horrible stomach pain for six months.

[34:37]What's going on with me?

[34:38]Like, or just like all these things that like you wouldn't know

[34:40]and nobody would tell you.

[34:41]But as soon as you saw that you would have immediate empathy

[34:44]compassion for the person.

[34:46]And maybe if they were online in front of you,

[34:47]you wouldn't be so annoyed and like rude about it, you know?

[34:50]Well, I feel like reading sort of teaches you

[34:52]to look for that in people.

[34:54]And, you know, you're getting into someone else's thoughts

[34:58]in a way that you can't even, you know,

[35:00]for people that, you know, are big TV watchers.

[35:03]Again, I love TV.

[35:04]Yeah, really, I don't know.

[35:05]And that's, I feel like, I don't want to say nosy.

[35:07]That feels like a bad thing to say.

[35:09]I'm a very curious person.

[35:10]And I want to know everyone's backstory.

[35:13]And like, all of that stuff that like,

[35:15]you only want to talk to your therapist about.

[35:17]And that's one of the reasons why I love reading.

[35:19]And why I love those big family saw this.

[35:21]If we weren't talking so much about books,

[35:23]I would be trying to find out like all of your sorted past.

[35:27]Like your first of all, I know I'm getting to do that

[35:29]over a glass of wine.

[35:30]Yeah, well, I have to do it another time.

[35:32]Well, I don't want to run over.

[35:33]I know you have a big interview coming up.

[35:35]Answer one more question.

[35:36]Do you mind that we were in the mind?

[35:38]No, of course.

[35:40]I saw the question come in when do you read?

[35:42]And that's actually so where is that guy?

[35:44]Sorry, I missed it.

[35:45]Oh, no, I just, I saw a couple questions coming in.

[35:47]Oh, sorry, yes, in the chat.

[35:48]Yes, name the major.

[35:49]And the when you read, this is something

[35:51]that I love to talk about because much like the name

[35:54]of your podcast, I feel like people are always like,

[35:56]I never have time to read.

[35:57]And I am here to tell you that you do have time to read.

[36:00]I feel like I have a pretty full life.

[36:02]I have two little kids.

[36:03]I have two dogs and two cats and a job and everything.

[36:06]And my secret is I read every night before I go to bed.

[36:11]That's when I do all my work reading.

[36:13]I don't unfortunately sit around during the work day

[36:16]and read all day.

[36:17]I'm at my computer and in meetings,

[36:19]but I make it a point to read every night.

[36:21]And I can capture an hour of reading

[36:24]or sometimes I read for five minutes

[36:26]and then I literally fall asleep with the book,

[36:28]waking me up when I hit my face.

[36:30]And I don't feel guilty about the amount of time that I spend

[36:33]because when you say something like,

[36:36]oh, I can only work out for five minutes,

[36:38]like you're still working out for five minutes.

[36:39]So just make it a habit and you'll start seeing

[36:42]that you can do it.

[36:43]And also you'll start seeing that like,

[36:45]you will fall in love with that story

[36:47]and want to spend more time doing it.

[36:49]Like so often people that say they don't have time to read

[36:52]or scrolling their phones before they go to bed.

[36:54]And it's like put your phone away.

[36:57]It is a drug.

[36:58]It is giving you the effects of a drug

[37:00]and just pick up a book, whatever it is.

[37:03]And then also, I mean, the idea of recapturing time

[37:07]in your day.

[37:08]So I know that you listen to audio books

[37:09]when you walk your dog.

[37:10]Like that's a perfect time.

[37:12]I'm sort of torn between, you mentioned,

[37:14]you interviewed the author of Can't Eat Then.

[37:16]I interviewed her over email and I asked her

[37:19]what she does to avoid burnout.

[37:20]And she said that she doesn't like to multitask.

[37:23]She likes to like singularly focus on one thing.

[37:26]So now I do feel a little guilty

[37:28]because I'll walk our dogs and I'll listen to a book

[37:30]at the same time, listening to the chiffon trenches,

[37:33]the Andrea Lee.

[37:34]Oh, I had him on.

[37:34]Yeah, oh my gosh.

[37:37]If anyone's looking for an audiobook,

[37:38]I want him to read everything to me.

[37:40]Like his French accent, I want to meet him and just,

[37:43]I don't know.

[37:44]I don't know what I would wear,

[37:45]but I'm going to send you the link

[37:46]because I have it on YouTube, awesome.

[37:48]So he's so funny.

[37:49]Yeah, it's great.

[37:51]Yeah, but I just like, I take back that walk time

[37:53]and I'm, I don't know, spending time with myself,

[37:56]exercising my dogs, exercising my body and reading.

[38:00]So it's just really all about that.

[38:01]And I also, my other sort of like easy tip

[38:04]that I have so many more to,

[38:05]but I am a huge goodreads reading challenge person.

[38:09]So I set a goal of the beginning of the year

[38:11]and I log every single book that I read.

[38:13]My sort of secrets are, I only log books that I know

[38:17]I'm going to finish.

[38:18]So with my job, sometimes I start a book that I hate this,

[38:21]but sometimes I don't finish them.

[38:23]If I don't love them, I just don't finish them.

[38:25]So I only put books on there that I know.

[38:27]Once I start reading enough that I know I'll finish it,

[38:30]then I will put it on currently reading and then read.

[38:32]And I also have a role that I don't log parenting books

[38:35]or relationship books because I know that other people

[38:38]follow my book pics and I feel like that's private.

[38:40]Like you don't need to know my issues

[38:42]with my children and my husband.

[38:45]But other than that, I log on my books there

[38:47]and it keeps me accountable.

[38:48]I mean, it's just like having any sort of goal

[38:50]and answering to it.

[38:52]And I have done very well with fear on my reading goal,

[38:55]but I mean, just setting that goal

[38:56]and then like working towards something,

[38:58]it's accountability the same as anything else.

[39:00]Do you include children's books?

[39:01]I don't actually.

[39:03]I would include a young adult book

[39:04]that I'm reading for myself.

[39:06]So Black Brother, Black Brother, a book that you mentioned.

[39:09]I would love a book.

[39:10]I find myself pretty in that book up

[39:12]weirdly all the time and talking about fencing

[39:14]and like how there's something so poetic

[39:16]about like infencing everyone looks the same.

[39:20]I interviewed Chelsea Clinton earlier this year

[39:22]and she writes about the female Muslim Olympian

[39:27]who is the fencing athlete.

[39:29]And that idea that like fencing

[39:31]was something that she could do

[39:32]and still be in, you know, her,

[39:35]the dress that she needed to wear for her beliefs,

[39:38]but also be athletic and, you know,

[39:40]be the best in her field.

[39:41]I just think like there's something so beautiful

[39:43]about that.

[39:44]And so that book I would record,

[39:46]but like when I read my kids,

[39:48]kind of think like what they're super into right now.

[39:51]Oh my gosh.

[39:51]One of my sons is really into the nightmare before Christmas.

[39:54]I think other people are horrified by this,

[39:56]but we keep reading the book that is sort of,

[40:00]sort of the kids version of it.

[40:01]And I don't love those.

[40:02]Because my kids, thankfully, my kids both love to read.

[40:05]And I think part of it is like they see me doing it.

[40:08]And so, you know, they want to model.

[40:10]I mean, they also, frankly, like see me on my phone

[40:13]and they'll like pick up, you know, my phone

[40:15]and say like, hello, which I think is cute,

[40:17]but also sort of sad.

[40:18]But they also just pick up books and they want to read.

[40:21]And I'll say like, I'm for dinner,

[40:22]and my little baby will say, hey, me reading.

[40:25]And I'm all sad.

[40:26]That's amazing.

[40:27]Yeah, my daughter last night,

[40:29]where I was reading a book like Danny

[40:30]and the dinosaur to my little or guy.

[40:32]And my seven-year-old daughter was like, wait,

[40:35]I missed the beginning.

[40:36]And she like grabs it over.

[40:37]And she's like, I'm just going to take that and read it.

[40:39]Bye, I'm reading.

[40:40]And I'm like, all right, great.

[40:41]You know what, you stay up as long as you want

[40:43]if you want to read.

[40:43]That's fine by me.

[40:46]It's just one other question.

[40:47]If you have two more seconds, other than bookstore newsletters,

[40:49]what are other ways you get books on your radar?

[40:52]You know, I, well, Amazon is one of them.

[40:54]I mean, obviously through work, you know, publishers

[40:57]are sharing books with us and kind of pitching us

[40:59]probably the same way they put to you as it be.

[41:01]And I learn about a lot of the books that I want to read then.

[41:04]And then I feel like, you know, my, literally, my job

[41:07]is then to share that wealth with other readers.

[41:10]But I think like everyone else,

[41:12]I listen to recommendations from people I trust.

[41:15]Actually, all three of the top three of these books

[41:19]are books that I read later than the rest of the team.

[41:22]And especially migrations,

[41:25]my teammate, Al Woodward, has,

[41:27]she is such a great reader.

[41:28]She's amazing taste.

[41:29]And she told us early in the year when she read this,

[41:32]this is my favorite book of the year.

[41:34]And I just feel like that's something I listen to.

[41:37]When someone whose recommendations I trust and who reads,

[41:40]I don't even know how she reads so much so much.

[41:43]And when she says this is my favorite book of the year,

[41:45]I listen to that.

[41:46]And same thing with Black Top Wasteland.

[41:48]Actually, when I started it,

[41:49]didn't love the first 20 pages or so.

[41:52]And I told my team that and they were like,

[41:54]you gotta keep reading this.

[41:55]And I got to a point in this book

[41:57]where I'm using literally correctly here,

[41:59]I literally stayed up until I finished it.

[42:02]I could not put it down.

[42:03]I was like, my heart was racing.

[42:05]This is, I'll hold it up so you can see the jacket.

[42:07]Black Top Wasteland.

[42:08]This is, the people always say like,

[42:10]what should I bring in the plane?

[42:11]This is the book that you wanna bring on a plane

[42:13]when you're in planes again.

[42:15]It is like, you pick it up, you open it.

[42:17]And then like, you'll look up and you'll be across the country.

[42:20]Like no time has passed except you'll be dripping sweat

[42:22]because it is so, it's like a crazy ride.

[42:25]And so those were all books that,

[42:27]I mean, there are, you know, top three of the year,

[42:29]there are books that I learned about

[42:30]because my colleagues who my trust were telling me

[42:33]that they thought they were amazing.

[42:35]So I listen to recommendations.

[42:37]I felt the same way about the vanishing half

[42:39]and also writers and lovers by Lily King.

[42:41]Both those books.

[42:42]I just like stayed the, you know, got dark out

[42:44]or I stayed up late at night

[42:46]and I just couldn't stop.

[42:47]It could not stop reading.

[42:49]I love that feeling.

[42:50]Yeah, I mean, I love both of those books.

[42:51]I saw that writers and lovers was on your list of books

[42:55]to sort of help you through this through grief.

[42:57]And I love that book because it's sort of like,

[43:01]her mother's death is there the whole time.

[43:03]And as arguably like sort of the biggest theme in the book,

[43:06]yet it's talked about the least.

[43:07]And it just sort of shows how like something like that

[43:10]just like seeps into your entire life

[43:13]and takes it over.

[43:14]Even if it's not what you're seeing every day,

[43:16]it's just, I just love that book.

[43:18]Yeah, it's like grief goes with you.

[43:21]Like, it's like how to integrate grief into your life,

[43:23]not like what you do when you're sitting,

[43:25]lying at the very beginning.

[43:27]Anyway, Sarah, thank you so much for all of your time.

[43:30]Please, let's continue this.

[43:31]I could talk about like a thousand other books with you

[43:33]and I wanna hear like, oh my gosh, please.

[43:35]So this was so fun.

[43:37]And thank you.

[43:37]Thanks for all your time.

[43:39]Thank you so much.

[43:39]This was really fun.

[43:41]I can't stop.

[43:41]Yeah.

[43:42]Okay, you do.

[43:43]Bye.

[43:45]Thanks again to today's sponsor, me.

[43:48]my holiday gift guide, zippyowans.com slash gift shop.

[43:51]Please go check it out.

[43:52]Buy something for someone you love.

[43:54]And I promise you won't regret it.

[43:56]Zippyowans.com slash gift shop.

[43:58]Go check it out.

[43:58]Thanks for listening to this episode

[44:00]of moms don't have time to read books.

[44:02]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,

[44:04]at zippyowans and at moms don't have time to read books.

[44:07]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowans.com

[44:10]and sign up for my virtual book club

[44:11]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[44:14]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound

[44:16]for the Sound Editing.

[44:18]And thank you to Morningland Productions

[44:19]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.