Paige Peterson, GROWING UP BELVEDERE-TIBURON
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[2:20]to expose you to this great brand. It was such a trip for interviewing page Peterson for this podcast,
[2:27]because I actually used to babysit for pages kids. And that was amazing. I looked at
[2:32]Andrew and Peter Carey. I was the summer mother's helper and babysat during the school years,
[2:36]and just grew up with them all. So this is just a huge thrill for me to interview page.
[2:41]As an American artist, author and photojournalist, page Peterson has reported extensively
[2:46]about the Middle East and has contributed to Marin magazine, New York social diary,
[2:50]and the National Council on US Arab Relations. Page acts as the author and artist in residence
[2:56]at literacy partners, and works with many organizations, including the National Council on US
[3:00]Arab Relations, the Safari Wild West Foundation, and the Huntsman Cancer Foundation at Institute,
[3:05]which is a leader in the study of cancer genetics. Page is the author of Growing Up Belvedere Tiburon,
[3:11]the co-author with Christopher Surf and illustrator of the best-selling children's book,
[3:15]Black E, The Horse Who Stood Still, and illustrator of Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol
[3:20]edited by Jesse Cornbliss. She is also a painter represented by Gerald Peter's Gallery in New York,
[3:26]and has been honored by the Guild Hall Academy of the Arts in East Hampton. Welcome, page.
[3:30]Thanks so much for coming on mom's turn. I have time to read books. Oh, thank you.
[3:35]This is so nice for me because you were my first boss ever. How old was I? Like, 11 or something,
[3:43]and I babysat your kids. How old was I? I think you were 10.
[3:47]All I said was just born. Oh, my gosh. And how old did she know? Well, she's 34,
[3:53]almost 35. Yeah, I was 10. Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. It was so great, and I got to spend all
[3:58]the summers and watch Alexander grow up, and then go to school with her. Oh, my gosh, so...
[4:04]We picked, we picked Trinity because he went there. I want to follow her. I hope she liked it.
[4:09]We followed you through your education. Well, this is like such a coming full circle
[4:16]moment, and I'm so excited. I can have you on the podcast, and your book is so beautiful,
[4:22]and so beautifully written. I have to say, well, let me back up. Why don't you start by telling
[4:27]listeners what your book is about and what inspired you to write it, and then I will continue
[4:31]my raves about it. Thank you. I was actually at dinner in New York with a friend of mine,
[4:37]David Patrick Columbia, who has a blog called New York Social Diary. And we were sitting
[4:43]together, and I was just telling him what my childhood was like. And he said, oh, my god,
[4:47]you must write about this. This is incredible. So, you know, I got... The way I wrote this book was
[4:54]to get very, very quiet and to kind of channel that inner child of mine and remember what it was
[5:01]like to be a little girl. And so I started writing vignettes. I just started writing paragraphs,
[5:09]nothing connected. And in the end, nothing sort of connects in the book, either, because it's
[5:13]childhood memories. And so there are just capsules of moments, but I was extraordinarily blessed.
[5:20]I'm 65 years old. So in 1955, I was born in Northern California. And Northern California,
[5:27]they were still... Belvedere and Tiburon was still a railroad town. And so it was a rural,
[5:35]wild place. And it was great. And your book is such a great combination of your own memories about
[5:41]growing up there and the place itself, but also your childhood. And then so many amazing
[5:47]photographs that you have dug up from for the past hundred plus years, which is amazing.
[5:52]Yeah, we took those photographs from the Miwok Indians up. And there's an amazing history here.
[5:59]One that America should not be proud of, which it's what the Spaniards and the Mexicans and then
[6:05]the white men did the American Indians as appalling, this whole peninsula that I live in,
[6:10]where I'm talking to you from. It was just beautiful, peaceful land with Indians. And of course,
[6:16]you know, in a very short amount of time, we decimated them. Turned, you know, the missionaries
[6:21]turned them, put them in western clothing and turned them into sleigh. So it's really an appalling
[6:26]history here. But then we moved forward. So I did write about a hundred years of history in
[6:32]Northern California. It's amazing. This railroad town was an amazing place.
[6:38]And your childhood, like literally, I was reading it. And I was like, this is the backdrop for
[6:44]any movie about like America. It's or I felt like I was reading fiction, like a set for a novel
[6:52]or something. And I couldn't believe that's the way you grew up with like riding your bike
[6:57]all day and no play dates. And like just so many things that you think of as so traditional America,
[7:03]small town, whatever. And yet there was San Francisco, like right over the bridge too.
[7:09]Crazy. It was crazy. And you know, Debbie, I raised my kids on Central Park West and just the way
[7:14]you were raised and you're now raising your children. My childhood was so vastly different.
[7:22]Because of course, our parents just sort of said, make your own lunch and leave the house.
[7:27]And it didn't matter if it was raining. It didn't matter. We would go to the library. But we were
[7:32]told to go. And we wouldn't come back till the 430 Whistle float. And nobody paid any attention
[7:37]to us. We used to take swings and swing off over the cliff. Nobody cared. But more importantly,
[7:43]kids didn't get hurt. I think sometimes the sort of hovering things kids aren't as mindful as
[7:50]they should because everybody's always hovering around them. So yeah, I feel so very blessed
[7:57]to have been raised here. Tell me about this. You put water in the freezer. And like,
[8:02]you had that was your water for the day. You would like take it out and wait for it to melt.
[8:06]In a glass jar, we all did it collectively. All the kids always had a glass jar in the basket of
[8:12]their bikes. But you know, we all used to drink out of garden hoses, which of course now we
[8:18]know is completely toxic and horrible to do. And I would never let my child, but we did it.
[8:23]We didn't have any. We weren't dependent on anyone. And by the way, peanut butter and jelly
[8:28]sandwich was all one needed for nine hours. There were no such things as snacks. And it was so
[8:35]simple. Oh, I mean, there was part of me reading your book just like siding what's long and like
[8:42]why can't as I think about like the effort it takes just for me to like get my kids to school and
[8:48]the 57 snacks and water bottles. And that's just to like, you know, literally cross the park, right?
[8:53]That's a 10 minute. I did it. I was you. I did it with. And you know, when I when I would
[9:00]you know, just preparing to get out of my apartment, I used to think, oh my god, I cannot even
[9:06]believe this. My mother never did this. Yeah, no, it was a much simpler time. And it was really
[9:10]beautiful. And you know, one of the things zippy, wait, I live on the water, the timber on peninsula
[9:16]has water on three sides of it. And I mean, there were no life jackets. There were no kids swam in the
[9:21]bay, kids swam in the weekend. We were competent on boats and kayaking. There was no safety of any
[9:29]kinds. There were no helmets when you rode your bike. There was nothing. I mean, it's amazing. And by
[9:33]the way, I don't know any kid that hurt. I mean, there were there were things that happened later on
[9:37]as teenagers. But it wasn't about playing and being trade. You had this great passage. I don't know,
[9:43]just stayed with me. One of your many descriptive scenes that just takes the reader back. You wrote
[9:49]for years, the snack bar at the club only offered bags of potato chips. After some remodeling,
[9:54]the menu upgraded to include grilled cheese, hot jugs and hamburgers with chips and pickles, mayonnaise
[9:58]and yellow mustard on the side.
[10:00]paper cups for ice water. The thin plywood changing rooms stayed the same for years,
[10:05]lockers and hooks for hanging wet towels. The smell of never-ending dampness. Don't we all have such
[10:10]memory rooms, composed of tastes, smells and textures? They stay with us always. Uh-oh, so nice.
[10:17]But then later on, and maybe this goes to what you were saying about the teenage years,
[10:21]you write, like any town we had our share of tragedy. What happened inside the homes of our
[10:25]friends was none of anyone's business. People didn't talk about their problems outside of
[10:30]home. Ours was a culture of silence and secrets. In the 1960s and 70s, at least eight of my friends
[10:37]died before the age of 20, some from drugs, some by suicide. All these decades later, when I see
[10:42]the parents of those children, their eyes still carry sadness as my grandmother would wisely nod
[10:47]to us there before the grace of God go I. Beautiful. You're a beautiful writer, and that is haunting.
[10:54]I mean, the culture of silence and secrets in this idyllic water side town, like what's really
[11:01]going on inside the homes. Like, this is like a novel. It's a novel. It's a thriller. I don't know what it is.
[11:05]It's interesting. I haven't heard somebody read that before. Oh, I was raised as an
[11:12]epistemicalian, but I went to a Catholic girl school. You know, it's interesting of all this
[11:17]gang of girls. One of them ended up being schizophrenic and jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.
[11:22]Another one died of an overdose of LSD. It was in the 60s and 70s. And drugs were just being
[11:30]introduced to California, free love and everything else. And I think I was saved because I had a very
[11:38]strict mother and I was scared of her. And so I didn't do any of that stuff. I didn't follow.
[11:46]I wasn't allowed to. One of the things I write about I wasn't allowed to go to Main Street.
[11:49]There were boundaries for me. And I feel so very lucky. And as my grandmother used to say,
[12:00]you know, there, but for the grace of God to go high. It was so sad. This is a Belvedere and
[12:07]Tibrone are two towns and it's divided by a road. It's not unlike, you know, East Hampton, one
[12:13]side of this tracks to the other. And there were so many families. There was a lot of alcoholism
[12:19]you know, because of cocktail parties. And this is a yachting community that involves a lot of
[12:24]drinking. And so I still don't know what went on behind closed doors. But a lot of it wasn't
[12:31]very nice. Interesting. Yeah. And sad and sad. And you know, the kids didn't go to psychiatrists.
[12:37]And there wasn't much divorce. I was the product of a divorce. And my parents were divorced
[12:43]when I was 18 months old. I mean, very, very early on in my life. But most of the people I
[12:49]knew in this community were married and settled and nobody took vacations because nobody had
[12:55]any money. We just played outside. And and we were together. But those years were complicated.
[13:02]I bet all over the world people could talk about the 60s and 70s being a hard,
[13:08]hard time for kids in some respects. But it seems like the trade-offs. I mean, your
[13:15]childhood sounded just so, you know, perfect. I mean, obviously not, you know, nothing is perfect,
[13:22]right? And who knows what, you know, maybe the secrets in your house do not want to come out
[13:26]either. I mean, you know, like locked inside and see, I certainly didn't write about what happened
[13:32]inside the house. That's another book. But I want to read that book. But outside the house,
[13:38]I think I was absolutely, I looked back on my childhood with such delight. I was so lucky.
[13:44]I just was so fortunate. And also, I was open to it and took advantage of it, you know, and
[13:52]didn't fight any of it. And we were big tennis players. My mother was a professional tennis player.
[14:00]And that she is 94 in the other room. So we were on the courts all the time playing. So
[14:08]there was an amazing sort of structure in that being an athlete. But then the freedom that we had
[14:16]was just amazing. And I don't see the kids here having that freedom at all. They've always
[14:22]even there, because now I'm feeling all guilty that I have kids in New York City.
[14:25]Oh, no, no, no. What is it like for the kids growing up there now?
[14:29]What I have noticed is that I loved raising my kids in New York City. They just had a completely
[14:33]different wonderful experience. They're nannies holding their hands. They're hovering mothers.
[14:38]You don't see kids off on their own at all. I mean, it's just different everywhere. This
[14:43]idyllic time that we had, I think it was it was a capsule in time. It doesn't exist anymore.
[14:50]And it'll never go back. First of all, the population exploded. So we still had lots of empty
[14:57]on the island where we did box lighting and made forts and kept all our sleeping bags up there
[15:03]and put them under branches. And that can't happen now. We're overpopulated. There's a still
[15:09]a sweetness to this small town, but it's different. What do you think that, and you think that
[15:16]yields different kids in different grownups? Like, what do you think the impact of that is sort
[15:20]of on a societal level when you have a whole generation of people who grew up with all this
[15:24]independence? And now, obviously, we have these kids who, you know, we have to buckle up six ways
[15:30]and sideways just to get, you know, around the block in the car seats and everything. So what do
[15:35]what do you think? Like what type of society does that lead to? Well, it's a really good question,
[15:40]Sivi. I'm glad I'm not raising kids now. I'm sorry. I just think it's so hard. It's so hard now.
[15:48]I don't know. What do you think? I just think that it details with the increased anxiety everybody
[15:55]has, right? I mean, everybody kids feel that we're so wary of everything that goes on around them.
[16:03]And so I think that it creates a population of kids who are not as inherently sort of brave and bold
[16:11]to go forth that they're, you know, always looking behind them. And maybe that has some benefits as
[16:16]well. I mean, you know, we like to believe in the sense of control and everything. But I don't know.
[16:21]I mean, I look at you and I remember when I used to babysit and you were always painting these
[16:26]amazing things and you were just so like cool, not that you aren't anymore. But I just thought
[16:32]you were like the most amazing woman and so creative. And now you've written like,
[16:37]you're book about blackie. You've already written a children's book and now this beautiful
[16:42]No, you're just like, you had your own, you like be to your own drummer much more so than most
[16:48]people. I feel like in that I grew up with knowing. Thank you. And I, you know, something,
[16:54]so I didn't have any information when I was a kid. There was no information. So did you go to,
[17:00]did you go to school? I definitely went to school. Okay. I'm there. You know, I mean, we're
[17:07]stating the obvious, right? There were no computers. There were no phones. I mean, that kind
[17:11]of information. Our lives are so simple and small. And parents didn't talk to kids. In those days,
[17:18]it was completely, I mean, I remember being told once I was horrified not by it, not by my mother.
[17:24]But I was told, you know, children are to be seen and not heard. We didn't have the kind of
[17:30]information that our kids have now. And I think that creates more anxiety for children.
[17:34]Are you close to your mother now? Like, what's your relationship like?
[17:37]Oh, I have a wonderful relationship with her. And she's at the end of her life, 94. She's still full
[17:45]of pap. She was a tutor mayor here in Belvedere. So she's very political. But my mother was a
[17:51]working person. And so she didn't have that much time to fool around with us. I mean, she played
[17:58]sports with us. And she was a wonderful mother. But when I look at how interactive the parents are
[18:04]with the kids, I just think, oh my gosh, give them some space. You know, I don't think children
[18:09]need to have as much information as they're getting. One of the things I did is that I just had
[18:15]endless hours of daydreaming. And I like to paint when I was a little girl. And so I had that.
[18:22]I didn't have a scheduled time. Even it's after school, there was freedom to do nothing. And
[18:30]out of that nothingness came for me, creativity. And that I started painting when I was, it was
[18:36]very young. And I didn't, I didn't think it anything was impossible. And then when I started reading,
[18:43]you know, I thought, oh, I want to be Gertrude Stein, but I don't want Alice be topless. But I want
[18:48]Gertrude Stein's life. I want to be surrounded with writers and painters and creative people. And
[18:56]I was very attracted to that kind of world. That's where my creative brain was. So I was always
[19:03]painting and writing, not necessarily reading. I was an action person. I was raised in Belvedere
[19:12]Tiberon with Anne Lamont, who was a childhood friend. And he always had a book in her hand.
[19:19]I never did. I was, you know, finding things and making things. I was much more sort of
[19:24]into being, you know, more creative. I saw her quote at the end. And I hope that, you know,
[19:30]I read your book online in the PDF you sent me. So I'm hoping that the final copy has this on
[19:35]the cover. Okay, good. All right, great. Well, it says, I love this new book by Paige Peterson and
[19:40]the Belvedere Tiberon Landmark Society. Always amazing and meticulous. And it's discovery and
[19:44]preservation of historical photographs. The Landmark Society has found the perfect narrator for this
[19:49]new collection. Paige is both precise and charming and capturing the wild and natural beauty
[19:53]of our shared childhoods and habitats in Belvedere and Tiberon in the 50s and 60s. She
[19:58]stoles the days of getting on her.
[20:00]Our bikes after breakfast and not coming home till dinner,
[20:02]covered in blackberry juice and dirt, scratches,
[20:04]and bliss, this combined effort brought me nostalgia and cheer.
[20:07]No, and la la, Annie.
[20:10]Yeah, I was very touched by that.
[20:12]I was taught, well, we had the same childhood.
[20:14]We had exactly the same, I mean,
[20:16]she was a great tennis player.
[20:18]We all played tennis all the time together.
[20:21]She was so much smarter than I was.
[20:22]Oh my goodness, she was so much smarter.
[20:25]But you know, she always had a book in her hand.
[20:28]When you started this blog,
[20:31]I used to think about Annie, because when that,
[20:33]and also Zibi, you were always reading.
[20:36]I remember you as a teenager always reading.
[20:38]As a little girl, you always brought a book with you.
[20:41]So this is innately within you.
[20:44]I was not a reader, I was a painter.
[20:46]And I was, you know, the other thing I used to do
[20:50]is that I used to make forts,
[20:52]and then I would make houses and play houses.
[20:55]I was much more sort of out there creating things
[20:58]than I was reading.
[21:00]And I am trying to catch up with that now.
[21:04]I read more now, but you know, Annie was great.
[21:07]But yes, you are reading all the time.
[21:09]Oh, I think I was trying to think about something
[21:13]on your 12th birthday.
[21:15]I gave you a book by, he was a Lebanese poet.
[21:20]A heel to run?
[21:21]Yes, yes, I loved that book.
[21:23]Yes, the prophet, because I ended up voting from it
[21:27]in my butt mitzvah speech the next year.
[21:29]That's right.
[21:30]In fact, if you gave me enough time,
[21:32]I would get up and start looking for it,
[21:34]because I know that I still have it.
[21:36]So I'm gonna go search, if it's not in this room,
[21:38]it might still be at my mom.
[21:39]So I will find it, but I loved that.
[21:41]I loved it.
[21:42]But that's what I'm thinking about you and loving you.
[21:47]I remember thinking, what can I do for Zibi?
[21:50]And I thought, oh, God, she loves to read.
[21:53]This is sort of out of the wheelhouse, right?
[21:55]It was just something different that I had been impacted with,
[21:59]but it's wonderful.
[22:00]Well, there you go.
[22:01]It's like the power of a book.
[22:02]I mean, that book has stayed with me ever since.
[22:04]That's the best gift you could have given me.
[22:06]Plus, you gave me a painting of yours,
[22:07]and I had it like, you gave me three years.
[22:10]So yeah, this is a gift that I have true meaning.
[22:12]It's, you know, imagine if you had given me like an LOL doll
[22:15]and, you know, whatever a kids are getting that.
[22:18]So, oh, thank you.
[22:20]You know, this conversation has made me feel better too,
[22:22]because I've been doing a lot more work lately.
[22:25]You know, I'm on my computer more,
[22:27]and I'm around with the kids.
[22:28]Like, I usually have my laptop upstairs
[22:30]and the kids just play, right?
[22:32]They play and they draw and they just like do whatever.
[22:35]But I'm not like on the floor with them anymore.
[22:37]And that's in part because they're older, right?
[22:38]And I'm talking about my little guys, not my teenagers.
[22:40]But, you know, I put them to bed last night
[22:42]and I was seeing myself like, oh, God,
[22:44]I worked so much today.
[22:45]Like, I was next to them all day,
[22:48]but like, you know, and they would like jump on my lap
[22:50]and I'd kiss them and they'd run
[22:52]and then they'd go do their own thing again.
[22:53]But I was like, I didn't really spend that much time
[22:55]on the floor with them or, you know,
[22:58]except for like the three hours in the morning
[22:59]when they got up at the crack of dawn
[23:01]and we were like baking together and whatever.
[23:02]Like, once the work day started, I was like focused.
[23:06]And I felt so guilty when I went to kiss them at night
[23:09]and I was like, oh, I was such a bad mom today.
[23:11]Like, I actually knew we were a great mom today
[23:14]to just be present and let them be.
[23:17]I see, I think that's the best.
[23:19]That's what my mother was like too,
[23:20]because she worked.
[23:21]She had a retail store and she also was in politics.
[23:26]So she was available, but she wasn't honest.
[23:30]And I think that's a gift.
[23:31]So what you did today was great.
[23:33]Let's them figure it out themselves.
[23:36]I think we have, I see these parents
[23:38]and I want to say, leave that kid alone.
[23:41]I don't figure it out.
[23:42]My mom would always say to me,
[23:44]Zippy, benign neglect, you know?
[23:46]Like, because I was like on top of my twins
[23:49]when they were little.
[23:50]Literally, just like a hawk, like watching them
[23:52]as they scampered, you know, every single second.
[23:55]She's like, it's okay.
[23:56]You know, that I watch like, home movies
[23:58]where my mother is like, you know,
[24:00]laying on a lounge chair by the pool, you know, smoking
[24:04]with her long red fingernails,
[24:06]smoking vintage lights with like little plastic eye protectors.
[24:10]So she didn't get a tan around her eyes.
[24:12]And you see it, like my brother and me,
[24:13]I was like falling in the pool.
[24:15]And then fortunately, like a babysitter
[24:16]might sweep in and save us.
[24:18]So they can, and now she's like, you know,
[24:20]I don't understand why you're new.
[24:23]The way you pair it.
[24:24]So anyway, really funny.
[24:26]That's really good.
[24:27]Different times, different times.
[24:29]But I think, yeah, no, I'm glad you're giving your kid's face
[24:32]to just be themselves.
[24:34]And I loved, I loved one of the things that I did
[24:36]with my kids.
[24:37]I painted with my kids a lot.
[24:39]And I was always doing their homework.
[24:40]They were Trinity kids, not only knows
[24:42]we were always doing homework.
[24:44]But we used, we worked side by side.
[24:47]Not necessarily integrated, you know,
[24:50]but side by side.
[24:52]So good for you.
[24:53]I applaud you.
[24:54]Good.
[24:55]Thank you.
[24:57]Well, Paige, this has been so nice,
[24:59]like just so meaningful and so warm and loving.
[25:02]And I'm just so happy we got to do this.
[25:04]And I'm so proud of you for your latest book.
[25:07]It's great and join this Blacky on my shelf.
[25:09]So congratulations on the book.
[25:12]Oh, thank you so much, honey.
[25:13]Thanks for having me.
[25:14]Of course, it's my pleasure.
[25:17]I enjoy, enjoy now that I know where you are, you know?
[25:20]Thank you.
[25:21]I'm jealous, all right.
[25:23]All right, bye, Paige.
[25:24]Love you, honey.
[25:25]Love you.
[25:27]Thanks so much to beekeepers' naturals
[25:29]for helping me through a sick day
[25:31]with the amazing cough syrup and cough spray.
[25:34]Throw spray that you have.
[25:35]And thanks for helping all my listeners.
[25:38]Beekeepersnaturals.com slash no time promo code no time.
[25:43]Thanks for listening to this episode of Mom's Don't Have
[25:45]Time to Read Books.
[25:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:48]at zibioans and at moms don't have time to read books.
[25:51]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibioans.com
[25:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:56]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:58]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[26:01]for the Sound Editing.
[26:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:04]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.