Shani M. King, HAVE I EVER TOLD YOU BLACK LIVES MATTER
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:13]Please sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com for weekly updates about my podcast, events, and more.
[0:20]Also, follow me on Instagram at zibiowens and also at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:26]And finally, join my virtual book club called Zibi's virtual book club, which meets every other Tuesday at 2 p.m.
[0:32]Eastern Time until 3 p.m. and features half an hour of book club discussion, followed by 30 minutes of Q&A with the author whose book we've just discussed.
[0:41]You can sign up on my website zibiowens.com under the virtual book club section or even on Instagram, under the link in my bio.
[0:49]I hope you'll find me in all these different channels and enjoy this podcast.
[0:53]Today's sponsor is my bookshop.org store and my Amazon store.
[0:59]I don't know if you guys even know that I have these, but you should check it out because I sell all the books that I've had on this podcast.
[1:06]So you can easily find them and buy them.
[1:10]The bookshop.org site is bookshop.org slash shop slash zibiowens.
[1:17]And the Amazon shop is amazon.com slash shop slash moms don't have time to read books.
[1:24]So I hope that you will check out my Amazon influencer store and my bookshop.org store front
[1:29]and the bookshop.org store front also has all the books from my Zibi's virtual book club and some other suggested reads.
[1:36]So I hope you will check those both out and go shopping, go buy some books from the podcast and support all these amazing authors.
[1:42]Shaney Mahiri King is a law professor at the University of Florida where he is a director of the Center on Children and Families
[1:49]and Associate Director of the Center on Race and Race Relations.
[1:53]He received a BA from Brown University, a JD from Harvard Law School, and a Masters in International Human Rights Law from Oxford University.
[2:01]Shaney is an active writer and scholar in the area of children's rights and family law.
[2:05]His newest children's book, have I ever told you Black Lives Matter,
[2:09]summons a magnificent historical and contemporary context for honoring the fortitude of Black
[2:14]role models who have achieved greatness despite the grinding, political and social constraints on Black life.
[2:20]Welcome, Shaney. Thank you so much for coming and moms don't have time to read books.
[2:24]I'm delighted to chat with you today.
[2:25]No, thank you Zibi so much for having me and I completely identify
[2:29]with the title moms don't have time to read books. I mean, I think just yesterday or the day before,
[2:34]my wife was like, Shaney, what's the last book you read and I honestly couldn't remember the name
[2:42]of the last book I read. I mean, don't even ask me what the last movie I saw was that is not
[2:48]a child's movie. It's just, you know, I have no idea.
[2:51]As of yesterday, we're trying to go through the entire home alone.
[2:54]I would, it's more than a trilogy. They're like five of them. I don't even know what you call
[2:57]that quince it. I don't know. Anyway, we're working our way through the kids movies as well.
[3:02]But yes, one byproduct unfortunately is sometimes less time to read. So anyway, I'm bringing books
[3:08]like yours, which are quick to read yours, not always on this podcast to people who,
[3:13]or maybe they didn't even wouldn't have discovered them otherwise. So I only have a PDF version.
[3:18]Do you happen to have your actual book or not? I don't, you know, I don't happen to have my actual
[3:24]book. I mean, part of the reasons I'm on sale in Sao Paulo right now. So be a sort of a
[3:29]good, heavier lift to get me an actual copy of it. But I've, like you, I've just seen the PDF.
[3:33]Well, it looks great. Thank you. Okay. So tell me the whole backstory of this children's book.
[3:39]Have I retold you Black Lives Matter? Tell me about the illustrations, the people you profiled,
[3:45]how you came to do it, how you had the whole story, how did this come to me?
[3:49]So I mean, all of my books begin from the same place, right? They begin from conversations with my kids.
[3:55]And so, you know, I wrote a book before this, have I retold you that is really sort of a book that
[4:02]is what I wanted to say to my kid, what I did say to my kids and what I wanted to say to my kids.
[4:07]And that last book I wrote about four years ago before the last election. And I just felt like
[4:13]there was a lot of political discourse that my kids were in different ways exposed to.
[4:19]And I didn't want that discourse to diminish who they thought they were. And so that's why I wrote
[4:26]have I ever told you this book, have I ever told you Black Lives Matter comes from a similar place.
[4:31]And it involves, in part, some conversations that I have had with my kids, but also conversations
[4:37]that I've wanted to have with my kids. I mean, for a long time, you know, I've wanted my kids to be
[4:43]aware of all of their history. I mean, I'm African American. My wife is Nicaraguan. You know,
[4:50]I'm Jewish. My wife is Catholic. You know, I was born in the United States. My wife was born
[4:55]in a garage where we've moved around quite a bit. So my kids have a lot of history. And which
[5:00]is part of, I think, the sort of, I know, palette from which in draw their own identities.
[5:07]And so for a long time, I've wanted my kids to know more about all of their histories.
[5:12]And one of the histories is Black histories, African American history. And you know, and so,
[5:18]but, you know, my kids are six and eight. And so, you know, I'm not sure as if you have
[5:23]well, your kids are, or, you know, but my kids don't, you know, don't usually like to just sit
[5:30]and listen to history monologues by their daddy or by their mommy, right? And so I, you know,
[5:37]occasionally I'll talk to them about history when I pick up books, but, you know, I always felt it
[5:43]was, it was always challenging to me to try and figure out how to expose kids to their history.
[5:49]Right? Unless, you know, we happen to go on a trip to Nicaragua, for example, or do a particular sort
[5:54]of African American heritage site. So the Black Lives Matter movement happened and is happening. And
[6:00]that it was just a reminder, sort of a similar kind of thing that I really want my kids to be
[6:05]proud of who they are. And so I wrote have I ever told you Black Lives Matter. And so there are
[6:11]two parts to the book. The first half is really an inspirational narrative of, like, you know,
[6:16]a speech or a story that you may want to tell your kids, or they want to read. And the second
[6:23]half involves over a hundred biographies of people mentioned in the first half, which gives
[6:31]really, I think, curious and inquisitive kids the opportunity, right, to ask questions and get
[6:36]them answered about people mentioned in the first half. And another feature of the second half
[6:41]of the book is that there are quotations from each of the people mentioned in the, in the back,
[6:47]each of the people in the biographies, at which I think allows kids to be inspired by these people
[6:53]in their own words. And they're really people from every field and endeavor anywhere from,
[6:58]you know, science to athletics to sports. And it's not only historical, but it's contemporary.
[7:04]So you have, you know, anyone from Charles Hamilton Houston, right, whose grandfather was a slave
[7:09]and led the legal fight against segregation to, to Jay-Z, right? And Beyonce, who were sort of modern
[7:16]day, you know, there are lots of names that you could give them, but business moguls, entrepreneurs,
[7:22]and who inspire people in their own way. Wow. Yes. That's all amazing. My kids, by the way, are also,
[7:30]I have a six year old and a seven year old and then two 13 year olds. Wow. Yeah. So I'm in it
[7:35]with you with them, not particularly wanting to sit down for history lesson. I feel like unless it's
[7:39]a holiday, I can't really get them to focus. Like why are we celebrating this? Right. Right.
[7:46]Wait, you mentioned that you are Jewish. Also, how I haven't met, I don't think any African-American
[7:51]Jewish people before. Tell me about that. Well, so my, you know, I was basically raised by my,
[7:57]my mother, my single mother, you know, basically since I was four. So my entire memory,
[8:01]and she's Jewish. I actually don't know what religion my father was. I mean, he wasn't really
[8:07]involved. So she shows up. My mom's Jewish. My biological mother is a, is a white Jewish woman
[8:13]from revere. And so, you know, the Boston area. So if you hear her speak, you will know that
[8:19]she's from Boston. And she says, you know, I mean, the phrase that we've taught our daughter is,
[8:24]you know, I park my car and have a dad. And so my, my mother has a very, very strong accent as
[8:29]do. And I'm not exactly sure why I don't. But anyways, so I was raised, I'm not particularly
[8:36]religious, but I was raised, you know, Jewish and culturally Jewish. And so we celebrate the Jewish
[8:41]holidays. And so, you know, our household now, my wife is kind of like I'm Jewish. So we celebrate
[8:47]both, you know, Hanukkah and Christmas. And sort of just because, you know, I think that's what
[8:53]I did when I was growing up. I celebrated, you know, Hanukkah my wife's elder Christmas. So we,
[8:57]we do that for our kids to expose them to both religions. And it's interesting. We were just
[9:03]speaking with both, you know, our, our daughter and our son yesterday. And I don't know the topic
[9:07]of religion or God or the afterlife came up. And so, you know, so I told the kids sort of my view
[9:15]and Gabby, my wife told the kids her view. And my daughter was like, she just had this look of,
[9:22]you know, sort of frustration on her face. And we were like, Sariah, what's what's wrong? And she was
[9:26]like, it's just confusing. You know, and I was like, yeah. No, I mean, it is very, very, very
[9:34]confusing. But I think one of the points that we wanted to make to her was that, you know, no one
[9:39]knows from our perspective, right? Ultimately at the end of the day, what the real, you know,
[9:44]story is, right? What the real sort of, you know, answer to fundamental questions, right, is,
[9:50]is there God? It's a belief, right? What the fundamental answer is to sort of, you know,
[9:55]what the religious sort of history of the world is, right? No,
[10:00]one knows, but what's important is that you can believe whatever you want to
[10:04]believe and you shouldn't judge someone else, right? For believing what they
[10:07]believe. And so, so that I think got across to her and to Matias as well, whether
[10:14]there was anything deeper than that that got across the night or no.
[10:18]I guess we'll find out what actually stuck in like, you know, 20, 30 years
[10:22]something like that. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, coming from a mixed race
[10:26]family, do you feel that you also need to tell the story of like the
[10:30]Nicaraguan history to your kids or like, will you be getting to that book?
[10:34]Or is it because this is so of the moment? And of course, there's so much,
[10:38]you know, national, not even national, just like worldwide focus on making
[10:43]things more, you know, in common parlance and all the rest. No, I think so.
[10:47]I have a couple of thoughts. The zibi. So first of all, I think, you know, I've
[10:51]always wanted to, as I mentioned, teach our kids, you know, African American
[10:55]history. And like, I always felt like, you know, I'm proud of all of my
[11:00]heritage and who I am. And I, and I want my kids to have an opportunity to be
[11:05]proud of who they are. And, you know, I think there are, there are some books
[11:11]that cover children's books that talk about different aspects of African
[11:15]American history. But I think I wrote this particular book, you know, because
[11:19]I hadn't really seen a book that covered it in exactly this way, right?
[11:24]This sort of breath of coverage in both a sort of digestible way in terms of
[11:29]the first half, but also a deep and sort of way in the second half that allows
[11:34]kids to explore and can even be a resource for educators, right? So I, the Black
[11:38]Lives Matter movement was a reminder and was sort of, you know, and helped. But I
[11:42]think it's something that I wanted to do. I wanted to do, anyways, and I've
[11:46]wanted to do for a long time. And that's, and also, you know, it's a time
[11:51]during which, you know, our kids, as, you know, zipping, you know, being among
[11:56]other things, right? A mom like our kids, you know, really need us, right? And
[12:01]it's challenging, right? It's, it's, you know, it's challenging to, you know, be
[12:06]the same kind of solid presence for our kids when we're dealing with this
[12:11]craziness in this pandemic, among other things too, right? So it's a, for a
[12:16]lot of reasons. It's a time where kids need us. And so I think, I think I
[12:21]wrote it not only for my kids, but because I had the opportunity to write it
[12:25]for other kids as well. And so, so in terms of the Nicaraguan history, I mean,
[12:32]that, that, I mean, yes, we have made many stops on that trade. I mean, my, my
[12:38]wife is, you know, a very proud Nicaraguan as is her mother. And her mother, my
[12:44]swag, as we would say in, in Spanish or so glina in Portuguese, which I'm
[12:49]learning now, is a boss of very proud Nicaraguan. And so they are, you know, we
[12:55]eat guayopinto, right? We eat queso frito, we eat nakatamales, right? Like, so
[13:01]yes, that we are exposing them to Nicaraguan culture as much as we can. I
[13:04]think, you know, one of my wife's biggest, it's a frustration, but I think
[13:09]something that makes her sad, a little sad is that we can't travel this
[13:14]freely as we would otherwise be able to do. I mean, so far in our lives, we've
[13:18]been very fortunate to be able to travel. But one thing that we haven't done
[13:22]is we haven't taken the kids to Nicaragua. And Nicaragua really is a fundamental
[13:26]part of who my wife, I mean, she's spent a lot of time there. She's, you know,
[13:29]very close with the Nicaraguan family. She's fluent in Spanish, right? So that's
[13:34]something that we would like to do more of when we have the opportunity to
[13:39]travel more than we can now. But yeah, I mean, we want to expose our kids
[13:44]to all of their history. And then, you know, like you were saying, to be, you
[13:47]know, ultimately at the end of the day, who knows what they're going to be
[13:52]like, who knows how they're going to identify? But we just want to give them
[13:56]the opportunity, right, to explore aspects of their identity. Very true. And
[14:02]not that this is any of my business, but I'm wondering how did you meet your
[14:05]wife? So, you know, it's, it's interesting. Whenever somebody like tells us
[14:10]their story of meeting, they're like, so, you know, I saw X from across the
[14:14]room and it was loved for a site. And then like, you know, they have these
[14:18]these romance, these amazing stories. So my wife and I don't have that kind
[14:23]of amazing story. You know, we met actually at work. I had been working in
[14:28]private practice as a lawyer in New York. And then I moved to California to
[14:32]Northern California. My wife was born in Nicaragua, but moved here when she
[14:36]was for and reared in Oakland, California. And so she was working at a, so I had
[14:42]been in private practice. She was working at a non-profit, not-for-profit
[14:45]organization, the represented only children and in different kinds of
[14:49]substantive proceedings, right? And dependency proceedings and education
[14:53]proceedings and immigration proceedings and guardianship proceedings. And so
[14:57]I had reached a point in my legal career where I'd always wanted to do this,
[15:02]but I reached a point where I could, while I was moving to California, and I
[15:06]really thought it was, it was a good point to switch gears, right? To switch
[15:09]from private practice, to representing kids, to child advocacy, which is
[15:13]something that I'd always wanted to do. And so I interviewed at this not-for-profit.
[15:19]And I got very lucky and got a job there. And they were fantastic people,
[15:24]fantastic lawyers. And so that's how we met. And we were friends. And then, you
[15:28]know, and that's that sort of, you know, and that's all she wrote. And then we
[15:33]ended up moving to, so that's where we met. And then we moved to Florida when I
[15:37]got a job as a law professor at the University of Florida. And we moved to
[15:41]Gainesville, Florida, which I had never thought of at all before moving there
[15:45]because I grew up in a bigger city right Boston and then moved to New
[15:48]York and my wife grew up in Oakland, right? And so I'd never really heard of
[15:52]Gainesville other than the Florida Gators, the football team. And I didn't
[15:56]really know much about Gainesville. And then we moved to Miami and now we're
[16:00]in Sao Paulo of the time being. So, wow. That's how we met. And she's, you know,
[16:08]she's great. I mean, she's much, you know, she's much smarter than I am. She is
[16:12]an incredibly kind person. And, you know, one amazing thing about her is that,
[16:17]you know, she's really busy. Like, she's a really busy lawyer doing, you know,
[16:22]high stakes and complicated litigation. But she is an unbelievable ability to, I
[16:30]think, be sort of emotionally available to our kids.
[16:33]Amazing. Okay. So I also wanted to know what plans do you have for more books or like,
[16:40]and how you're doing this with your regular job? You know, I mean, like you
[16:43]already have a lot going on. And this is such a service you're doing by coming
[16:47]through all these biographies. And I mean, this really, if the fonts were
[16:50]different, this could have been like a huge biography middle grade type of project.
[16:55]But the bios were sort of smaller at the end. So tell me about your upcoming stuff.
[17:00]Well, so, you know, I think the way that I usually write Zibi, I mean, I'm not sure,
[17:06]you know, I don't know how other we'll do it. I'm sure it's different for everyone.
[17:10]But the way that I usually write my children's books is, you know,
[17:14]I just sit down when I happen to be thinking about something and write a draft.
[17:20]And that's how both of these children's books worked. This, I guess the second one
[17:24]involved, you're right. I mean, considerably more research than the first,
[17:28]but it was research that I it was really even rewarding personally because I knew,
[17:33]you know, many of the people in the book, but I didn't know everything about
[17:36]every one of these people in the book. And so, so anyways, so what's next?
[17:41]So a couple of things that are sort of in the sort of conceptual drafting stage.
[17:47]And so one is more sort of have I ever told you books from different perspectives,
[17:52]right? Because I think, you know, this happens to be a book about African
[17:57]American history, but I think there are many different kinds of have I ever told you books
[18:01]that could provide access to kids to different histories, right? You mentioned,
[18:06]you know, do I plan to expose my kids to all of their different histories, right?
[18:10]Yeah, and I think I'd like to write more, have I ever told you books another project is
[18:14]slightly different. And so I mentioned to you, I think Zippy that I think that my kids
[18:19]are even though they complain sometimes may be a little bit too much. I think they're
[18:22]very fortunate kids in so many ways. And one of the ways they're so fortunate is they
[18:28]have gotten to travel more than I could have ever imagined. And so I mean, so they've been
[18:36]to last summer because of my wife's job. We spent about a month, I think in Panama,
[18:41]the summer before that we spent about seven weeks, eight weeks in Buenos Aires.
[18:46]And so another sort of conceptual project is a project that sort of is a children's book
[18:53]that sort of explores the story or path of children who are from traditionally underserved
[19:01]populations traveling, right? So to these different locations and how they experience them,
[19:07]because I know, you know, I never thought about, you know, traveling in the way that my kids
[19:12]travel. And so one thought was to provide sort of a window and access to other kids,
[19:18]the experience that my kids are having to other kids through a children's book. So those are
[19:22]a couple of things that I'm working on in terms of how I find time to do it. You know, Zippy,
[19:28]you know, it's really so much fun for me to do. And I sort of feel like particularly during this
[19:34]time when there is so much going on. And, you know, and we really need to be there as much as
[19:39]we can for our kids, right? It's the least that I can do to try and use this platform to try and
[19:46]speak to kids. It's amazing. Wow. Well, I can't wait to see what comes next. And it's so funny.
[19:53]And the New York Times today, there was a whole thing, you know, that at home section,
[19:56]I don't know if you read the Times, but they have like, yeah, home. And today it was like,
[20:00]Okay, you're at home with your kids for holidays, like, what are you going to do?
[20:05]If you're the type of family who used to love to travel, you can do these things.
[20:08]And I was like reading it like, what, what am I going to do?
[20:11]So anyway, there were all these resources, you know, to pretend as if you're traveling
[20:16]with your kids.
[20:17]But they all seem pretty shoddy, but having a book like yours would fall into that
[20:21]great category.
[20:22]So yeah, I do, I do read the times, you know, and it's, and you know, I was, you know,
[20:27]my wife and I have the exact same.
[20:29]I mean, we have right now our kid's school has, wait for it, a five week break.
[20:37]So we have five weeks, right?
[20:39]And so we had Rick and God received recommendations from the school, from the schools to,
[20:43]you know, things that they should do.
[20:45]So for one of my kids from my older kid, it's 30 minutes of reading three days a week.
[20:50]And this math program, which just probably takes her about 10 minutes.
[20:52]And then for my son, it's about 15 minutes of reading.
[20:56]Now, you know, I'm not a mathematician, but, you know, and I haven't done the exact
[21:00]calculations yet, Zibi, but that leaves a lot of hours during the day, right?
[21:07]Roblox, you know, for what?
[21:11]And so yeah, I mean, I really appreciate people working hard to try and help, you know,
[21:15]come up with ideas.
[21:16]And, you know, I think there are things that will take up the time.
[21:19]Maybe we'll do some baking, maybe, but it's a challenge.
[21:22]And I think, you know, my, what I, and my wife was when I were talking about it.
[21:27]And I think one of the approaches that I, that I take is that, you know, this is really
[21:32]an unprecedented, you know, at least in my lifetime, right, time, right, during which,
[21:38]you know, and so some of the rules that we normally have, I think, are just going to have
[21:43]to be off the table, right?
[21:45]And all to me at the end of the day, right, my wife and I will do the best that we can
[21:50]to give our kids some stimulation during the day.
[21:56]But at the end of the day, right, they're not going to have as much as we would like,
[22:00]right?
[22:01]And we're not going to be able to do the things that we would normally do, but, you know,
[22:05]as long as, you know, they're relatively happy, they're going to be okay, right?
[22:09]And I think, you know, this is one of those situations where I think, you know, my wife
[22:13]and I just have to continually remind ourselves that, you know what, you know, let's just
[22:17]put one foot in front of the other, we're going to do our jobs, our kids will get some stimulation.
[22:22]And, you know, if they watch their iPad a little bit more than normal, you know, that's,
[22:27]it's, it's okay this time because they're going to be just fine, you know, and because,
[22:33]you know, listen to me, like, I know that I spent a lot more time in front of the screen
[22:40]when I was a kid than people saying that.
[22:43]I'm like, always referencing like commercials and shows from the 80s and whatever.
[22:47]And I'm like, I must have been, I won't find I talked to my mom.
[22:50]I was like, did I watch TV all the time?
[22:52]Because I do remember reading a lot, but like, there was not a show I appear to have missed.
[22:56]So yeah, yeah, I don't know.
[22:58]Where, you know what, honestly, all the kids are going to be fine.
[23:01]We're all going to be fine.
[23:02]And actually, it might even lead to some like course correction on the over parenting.
[23:07]Right, right, exactly, exactly that like, you know what, they're fine.
[23:11]Like, they're in the other room and, you know, the world's not coming to an end.
[23:14]So, you know, it reminds me of like, you know, when, and I'm sure, you know, when,
[23:19]when your kids are little.
[23:21]And I don't know if you did this, but like, you know, you read all of these, you know,
[23:26]parenting books and blogs, right?
[23:29]And people have such strong opinions about what you should do and shouldn't do
[23:34]and how things will ruin, you know, your kid.
[23:38]If you do them or don't do them, right, should you let your kid cry?
[23:41]Should you not let your kid cry?
[23:42]Should you, and there are so, and, but at the end of the day, right, all the kids are fine,
[23:48]right, like, like, you know, they're just fine.
[23:50]And it's the same thing now, right?
[23:52]So I really do wonder if this will result in a course correction because, you know,
[23:57]the kids are going to be, kids are going to be just fine.
[23:59]Yeah.
[23:59]And I've realized, and I mean, I say this all the time, but the more kids I have,
[24:03]the more I realize that I have like nothing to do with how they turn out.
[24:07]All I do is mess them up, but they are who they are.
[24:11]And day one, and I'm just, yeah, who did I get?
[24:17]But as long as that's right.
[24:18]And make sure that there's some boundaries and I'm not mean and, you know, that's right.
[24:23]Loving parent is, they're going to be okay.
[24:26]So anyway, all this philosophical parenting talk.
[24:29]I didn't see this coming, but anyway, thank you for coming on my podcast.
[24:33]Thank you for your book.
[24:35]I can't wait to get a hard copy to read to my kids who, despite all their time on screens,
[24:40]somehow don't like to read books on screens of all the things, right?
[24:44]So anyway, well, I'm jealous of you being in Brazil and I hope you,
[24:49]I hope you survived these five weeks.
[24:52]Yeah, you too, Zibi.
[24:53]Thank you so much for having me.
[24:54]And, you know, if it makes you feel better.
[24:56]Yes, we are in Brazil, but just like you, I am inside.
[25:01]So, you know, we could be anywhere right now.
[25:03]So, but good luck, Zibi, to you.
[25:05]You too.
[25:06]We'll have this next five weeks.
[25:08]And thank you so much for having me.
[25:09]My pleasure.
[25:09]Thanks for coming on.
[25:10]Okay, bye.
[25:11]Bye.
[25:11]Bye.
[25:13]Thanks so much to today's sponsor.
[25:15]My bookshop.org and my Amazon influencer store.
[25:19]You can check out my Amazon store at Amazon.com slash shop slash mom.
[25:24]So, don't have time to read books.
[25:26]And my bookshop.org store, which is bookshop.org slash shop slash Zibi Owens.
[25:34]And I hope that you will find every book that you are looking for.
[25:38]Thanks.
[25:38]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books.
[25:42]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[25:47]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[25:52]of authors on zoom every other week.
[25:54]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing.
[25:58]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.