Chelsea Clinton, SHE PERSISTED
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[2:20]to expose you to this great brand. Chelsea Clinton is the author of the number one
[2:24]New York Times best-selling picture book. She persisted 13 American women who changed the world,
[2:30]which was praised in a star review by publishers weekly as a lovely moving work of children's
[2:35]literature and a polished introduction to a diverse and accomplished group of women.
[2:39]She is also the author of Grandma's Gardens, co-written with Hillary Rodham Clinton,
[2:44]her mother, as well as the New York Times best-sellers she persisted in sports.
[2:48]American Olympians who changed the game don't let them disappear. 12 endangered species
[2:52]across the globe start now you can make a difference. She persisted around the world 13 women
[2:58]who changed history. It's your world get informed get inspired and get going. The book of
[3:03]Betsy women favorite stories of courage and resilience co-written with Hillary Rodham Clinton
[3:07]and governing global health who runs the world and why co-written with Debbie Sridhar.
[3:12]Chelsea Clinton is the vice chair of the Clinton Foundation where she works on many initiatives,
[3:17]including those that help to empower the next generation of leaders. She lives in New York City with
[3:21]her husband Mark their children and their dog Soren. You can follow her on Twitter at Chelsea
[3:26]Clinton or on Facebook at facebook.com slash Chelsea Clinton. Welcome Chelsea thank you so much
[3:32]for coming and moms don't have time to read books. Thank you so much to be for having me. Of course
[3:36]it's my pleasure. You do so much stuff and I want to talk first about your amazing children's
[3:43]books and your new more middle grade not even middle grade. Oh slightly older kid version of your
[3:49]why did you start writing children's books to begin with? So I wrote first for kind of older kids and
[3:56]then when I became a parent and so had like very little kids in my life you know I just was
[4:01]consuming like so many kids books and realized still how overwhelmingly male kids books tend to be.
[4:11]I mean that we kind of have male gendered animals even often more frequently that you know you'll
[4:17]have frogs named Sam or ducks named Peter and just both as a mom of a daughter and then a son
[4:25]and now we have a third son. I just wanted there to be more books centered on centered on girls
[4:30]and women kind of written by female authors for my daughter and also for my son and so you know I
[4:37]just see now as to be like how how powerful this is where like you know my son Aiden who's
[4:42]for his favorite book is Counting on Catherine he thinks Catherine Johnson was the smartest person ever
[4:47]because she skipped three grades and worked at NASA and so you know while I certainly kind of thought
[4:53]oh my gosh we need more more books about women celebrating women written by women for our
[4:58]daughters and our sons. I now see like you know just in the little world of my family how powerful
[5:04]that really is and why that is so true. I love that I heard you interviewed on with Sarah Galman of
[5:09]Amazon books and she was on my podcast too and you were saying that not only are you excited
[5:14]for one of your kids to be imitating Simone Biles who was in your most recent book she persisted in
[5:19]sports which is awesome but that your son was also sort of emulating the behavior of one of the
[5:25]women athletes and how awesome was that I mean that's incredible. Yeah it is very sweet though I
[5:30]I do get a real kick I have to say out of my daughter Charlotte he's six who you know is tumbling
[5:36]around just at home now because obviously like she's not going to gymnastics classes any longer
[5:41]in this pandemic moment and I think it's hard for like little kids to do gymnastics on zoom so
[5:46]like truly god bless her PE teacher who I hear like exhorting her like do jumping jacks and I hear
[5:51]the thumping thumping thumping of the jumping jacks or the kind of shimmying in place and that
[5:56]she still gets a lot of thankfully like physical activity kind of through school but I think like
[6:01]gymnastics would be hard so and since you can't go to gymnastics classes and I certainly am
[6:06]not have no skills in that area I'm like you know she'll still like still like put on her little
[6:11]like Simone Biles the atards and like tumbling around to be like just like Simone and I'm like
[6:16]you gotta start somewhere I have two girls who both love gymnastics and we have gone to like
[6:24]the middle of New Jersey to watch some you know pre Olympic something or other and we have
[6:28]Simone Biles stuff everywhere so yes I get it especially in the zoom life we tried a lot of gymnastics
[6:35]and I was like this is no this someone's like gonna get hurt at this point and I do though really
[6:40]have so much respect admiration awe for the teachers who are really able to engage especially
[6:47]our youngest learners and to help them still feel connected to their classmates and to their
[6:54]class and to the material that they're learning whether that is you know working on handwriting
[6:59]because my daughter's in kindergarten or learning about historical figure or learning a song or
[7:07]you know they did like yoga earlier this week and I loved hearing like you know you could hear
[7:11]because all the kids I think forget to mute their screens like all the kids stumbling and fumbling
[7:17]like through the different poses I'm incredibly grateful and also aware of how deeply
[7:22]privileged we are that our kids have reliable internet access and can have their own screens to be
[7:26]able to have this experience and how unfortunately that isn't true for so many kids in our country
[7:32]it's very true and I completely agree with you especially as I watch like a PE teacher and you
[7:38]like you know trying to like swim as he's going across the screen I'm like this guy in his
[7:42]apartment like that's amazing thank you that's you know no embarrassment just all in the kids love
[7:48]it but yes we should do a support group for moms with kindergartners on in zoom school because
[7:54]it is no not the most fun but anyway hopefully we'll be near the end of this soon god willing
[8:01]well back to she persisted in sports even just to talk about for a minute I love how so in this book
[8:06]as in all year she persisted books you have different profiles of this time athletes and different
[8:12]powerful quotes and this one was one of my favorite from jean dress call a champion is someone
[8:16]who has fallen off the horse a dozen times and gotten back on the horse a dozen times successful
[8:21]people never give up and I feel like this is so fundamental to your whole message of she persisted
[8:27]and in every page saying again she persisted she persisted what is it about reminding people how important
[8:35]it is to persist that is particularly meaningful to you why is this the message that you want to
[8:41]hammer home especially for young readers I think that persistence is so central to our ability
[8:48]to really do anything in life that hopefully can give us us meaning so whether that is learning a
[8:54]new skill I mean I watch my daughter now is she's like struggling to learn how to write her lower case
[8:58]letters and she needs to have persistence to learn to do that or you know whether I think about in
[9:04]my own writing when I hit a writing block and I just have to keep kind force myself to keep writing
[9:10]because even if kind of what I'm writing you know zippy isn't great today I know that I'm far more
[9:16]likely to be productive tomorrow because I didn't give up today and so for me I really I make
[9:21]myself right every day and sometimes it's it's writing about my kids and sometimes it's kind of
[9:26]more academic writing and sometimes it's like the idea of my next kids book but it truly for me
[9:30]has to be that routine and kind of I think we can practice persistence I think that kind of the
[9:37]more that we persist the more we don't give up the less likely we are to give up in the future and
[9:41]I think that is just such a fundamental life skill for all of us it hopefully helps give us
[9:47]then the courage the bravery to try new things because we know that we're going to have the
[9:54]grit in the fortitude to push through whether we're good at them or not candidly and also hopefully to
[10:00]kind of enjoy the journey. So I just, I think persistence is one of the most important
[10:07]aspects of life and certainly not as a parent, you know, I'm trying to help model
[10:11]persistence for my kids, encourage them to persist admittedly because I am their parents,
[10:15]I'm like, I can force them to persist because I want them to build, to build that muscle
[10:21]of persistence because I think kind of what Jean Jiskel said is so true. You know,
[10:25]I think about my grandmother, my mom's mom, who had this adage that life's not about what
[10:28]happens to you. It's about what you do with what happens to you. You know, how you do kind of
[10:33]just keep going kind of over under, around, through, whatever challenges may come.
[10:39]I love that. I mean, it's really the only choice sometimes, right? And let's go back to the fact
[10:44]that you said you write every day, which is super impressive, especially given the kids and all
[10:48]the other things you do. I mean, something that's like only a couple of sentences and I'm like,
[10:52]oh my god, it's like the end of the day, I need to write something. But for me, it's important. And I know
[10:57]like every writer has different approaches that work for them. I mean, I know some people like
[11:02]religiously get up early and like they have to write early in the day. I have a friend who like
[11:06]only writes after his kids go to bed. And I've said to him, like, if like someone's sick and like
[11:12]you're up to like 11 or 12, he's like, no, he's like, I make myself write every night. But like
[11:16]after the kids go to bed, it doesn't matter how late it is. I don't have that same kind of adherence
[11:21]like this time in my day. But I do, I make myself write every day. And sometimes it really is just
[11:27]about my kids, right? Sometimes it's like, oh, like Aiden did something fun in a day or Jasper,
[11:31]who's our baby, like learned a new word, like he learned Apple yesterday. So yes, if he was so
[11:35]excited, just kept like pointing at the kitchen, like, you know, our frugal and like Apple,
[11:39]Apple. I said it, right? And so, really, that's what I wrote about last night.
[11:43]It sounds like maybe there's some sort of memoir you have potential notes for, would you ever,
[11:48]would you think of doing a memoir? I think it's not anything I've thought about. I've been asked
[11:53]this before, but it's never anything I've given kind of mental or emotional space to. I think,
[11:58]you know, way in the future, if I thought, you know, my life story could be more than just
[12:04]interesting, right? If it could be useful to someone, to a young reader somewhere, I would think
[12:09]about it, but not now. Yeah. Well, I think almost everybody has something useful for somebody else
[12:15]to share from their life story. Just, I feel like opening yourself up to making those connections,
[12:21]you don't have to have had anything truly outrageous happen in your life, but just the ability,
[12:26]again, going back to persistence of, you know, I love reading memoirs of people who got through
[12:31]anything, right? Whether it's a child's illness or an eating disorder or addiction or a horrible,
[12:37]you know, tropical, I don't, some event tsunami. I don't know. No, it's inspiring. So,
[12:42]I have written in Doyle's book. Yeah. And then, but I thought it was like so beautifully written
[12:47]certainly and also so powerful. So, yes, I do think that is a good reminder that we certainly
[12:53]all do have something to share. Exactly. So, tell me about the decision to then increase your
[12:58]series of the she persisted books and to expand it to slightly older kids and the Harriet Tubman
[13:04]book, which you wrote with Andrea Davis picnic. He was also on this podcast. So, there you go.
[13:08]Oh, my gosh, I love her. I mean, she wrote the book. I only kind of had the privilege in the
[13:12]pleasure of helping to edit it. And, you know, really this grew out of just kind of continued
[13:18]questions from young readers, from kids themselves, from from their parents, kind of where they
[13:24]could go to learn more about these women. And, you know, especially the women in the first book,
[13:30]the 13 women in the first book, have meant so much to me in my life. I mean, I grew up with
[13:35]some of these women insofar as my mother, my grandmother, you know, sharing their stories or kind of
[13:41]teachers sharing their stories. And I just feel like this sort of like nested into my heart.
[13:46]And so when we kept being asked, like, where could readers go, you know, thankfully my wonderful
[13:52]editor, Jill Santapolo, and I decided like we would provide them a place to go and, you know,
[13:58]take the 13 women in the first stories. And they're the first book. I'm really like flesh,
[14:02]flesh their stories out. I'm so thankful to the 13 amazing women authors who really have
[14:08]done that. And I'm excited to see my daughter now who is, I started reading the Harriet Tubman
[14:13]book to her my few days ago. And she just said, she's like, mom, I can read it. And so, you know,
[14:19]last night, I guess she's in bed. And she's like reading the Harriet Tubman book was just
[14:23]made my heart so, so proud and happy. And I'm excited for her. And as Aiden, my four year old,
[14:29]it's like reading skills developed, you know, for them to read these books and later,
[14:34]their little brother, Jasper, to do the same. No pressure on the early reading. It comes when it
[14:39]comes. He's totally fine. He's like, he thankfully feel any pressure. He is like very fundamentally
[14:46]his own person in a really fantastic and often hilarious way where I look at him and I'm like,
[14:52]how did I help create you? Like, you're so curious in like such a wonderful ways and your curiosity
[14:58]is taking you in like so many fantastic directions. And I can't wait for this. We have all my kids.
[15:03]Can't wait to be along for the red. Yeah. I don't know if you feel the same way. I feel like
[15:06]the more kids I have the more I'm like, I have nothing to do with who you are. You have just
[15:10]appeared fully formed. And I am just here to usher you along. But like, you have these 16 different
[15:15]qualities that I don't know where they came from, but they're pretty awesome. And I'm just going to
[15:18]sit back and relax and watch you become yourself. Totally my son, Jasper, who's one just like,
[15:25]never stops. Like, never stops moving. Like, gets up in the morning, moves, takes a nap, gets up
[15:30]his nap moves, takes another nap, gets up from his nap moves, like goes to bed. And I think now
[15:35]to your just recognition to be of like having more kids, like, oh, like your siblings didn't do that.
[15:40]Like, I mean, they were active, thankfully, when they were toddlers, but they also would like
[15:44]sit and stare at the window or, you know, bang on things. And he just like never stops moving.
[15:52]And it's such a, I know, small thing, but just such a clear mark of like, oh, like you're already
[15:57]own person. Yeah. And that is probably not going to stop as he gets older. I had one kid like that and
[16:03]still moving all the time. Yeah. You know, it's so funny. I feel like I could just chat with you about
[16:09]like having kids in New York and schools and Zoom and books and all this stuff. And yet you've had
[16:15]like an overlay of this unique experience that I certainly haven't had a lot of people have not,
[16:21]most people have not had it being so in the public eye from a very young age. I just wanted to know,
[16:27]especially with, I feel like with parenthood and feeling judged perhaps by others, right? Like,
[16:33]I'm on the street and I lose it with one of my kids. I'm like, oh, no, like, I have no
[16:37]family. Just scream at her for doing X, Y, Z. Like, what it's like to feel that added
[16:42]layer that maybe people actually are watching you as opposed to my thinking that they are
[16:46]and probably could not care less. You know, I think Sydney in some ways because I've never
[16:51]known, I've never known what it's like to not be in the public eye. I definitely have had experiences
[16:57]where I have felt in wonderful ways like more anonymous. And yet I've always known that, you know,
[17:04]people could be watching me. And I certainly, at least before, like we were all walking around
[17:10]in masks, although I sometimes do get recognized even in a mask, which I'm like, wow, like,
[17:15]really good eyesight. You especially like what it's really cold in New York, and I'm like,
[17:20]wearing it the hat and a mask and people are like, are Chelsea? I'm like, hi, I'm so amazing.
[17:27]But I think because, you know, I just have never really known when it's not, I mean, what's
[17:33]like to not be, you know, potentially scrutinized. I've never really wrestled with that. I
[17:38]they will say something that surprised me when I was pregnant with Charlotte. I had the experience
[17:44]of people coming up and like offering me advice in a way that I had never really had before. So I
[17:50]had, you know, I've grown up with and I had been an adult with people coming up and offering me
[17:55]opinions about things when my parents had said or done or something I had said or done or
[18:00]something they thought that we may have said or done that we never did. And a range of emotions
[18:06]and things kind of said and shared generally positive and often if negative, like super negative.
[18:12]But I had never, I had never really experienced like being on the receiving end of just a lot of
[18:16]advice and people would recognize me like standing in line in between Reed or in the subway or
[18:22]like walking in our local park or on a weekend, like having coffee with a friend and people just
[18:26]come up and like like, oh, Chelsea, like, you know, I hope you're considering this when you're
[18:30]like giving birth. They're like, here's like some things you may want to think about. I'm like,
[18:34]most of it was lovely, but just that was a new experience for me. And then I did have the
[18:41]experience of the few people coming up to me and saying like, you know, please don't vaccinate your
[18:45]child. And I would say like, oh, you know, I will be vaccinating my child. Like they will get
[18:51]happy in the hospital and they'll stay on schedule thereafter. And, you know, it was really my first
[18:57]kind of personal interaction with the anti-vaccine movement, which unfortunately has gotten
[19:02]only stronger over COVID. So that was kind of a rambling answer and reflection to your
[19:07]questions. It'd be of, it didn't ever think like, oh my gosh, what if someone's watching,
[19:11]because I think it just so ingrained to me to think like, oh, someone could be watching.
[19:14]But the advice part was a new dynamic to navigate and thankfully most people were really
[19:20]offering quite like like positive kind of pieces of advice from their own experiences of
[19:24]parenthood. Yeah, I feel like pregnancy opened to you up to anybody's advice, strangers or not,
[19:31]whether or not you're a public figure. I feel like people putting their hands in your belly
[19:35]and telling you what they should do. Everybody feels like it's an open invitation. So I can only
[19:39]imagine the compounding factor of people feeling like they know you and then actually sharing.
[19:45]Crazy. So when you read and I see like a trillion books behind you as we were chatting about before
[19:51]organized in a lovely or, you know, perfectly symmetrical way as opposed to the piles of
[19:56]mind falling behind me. What types of books do you like to read? And as a month.
[20:00]Do you have time to read? How do you find the time?
[20:02]Well, it's such a time-like question,
[20:05]in some ways, because my husband and I,
[20:07]and we are working from home, like so many of us,
[20:09]and again, like recognize that it is a privilege
[20:11]to be able to work from home.
[20:12]And we took the week off between Christmas and New Year's
[20:17]just to really be with our kids,
[20:19]like disconnect from the world.
[20:21]And we realized we had these, like, truly column
[20:25]high of magazines of basically like the economists
[20:29]the New Yorker and National Geographic.
[20:31]And I was like, this is so strange.
[20:33]I'm like, we have these big piles.
[20:35]And then I realized it's because we don't go anywhere.
[20:40]We used to read these magazines on the subway,
[20:45]in a car, on an airplane, and like, we don't do any of that
[20:50]right now.
[20:50]And so I was like, why do we have basically
[20:52]like a year's worth of all of these magazines?
[20:57]And, you know, we got through just a tiny fraction of,
[21:03]of even like what we wanted to read from them over that week.
[21:06]And so we just, and we're thinking about like, wow,
[21:09]like what, and how we've read has really changed so much
[21:13]over, over this past year.
[21:16]Thankfully, I don't think that's true with our kids.
[21:18]Like we have always read a lot with our kids.
[21:20]We've always read kind of this like, sacred time
[21:24]of like reading with our kids before bed.
[21:26]We read a lot with our kids on the weekends.
[21:29]It's so fun now that my daughter's obsessed with sharks.
[21:32]She's been obsessed with shark careers.
[21:33]We have read so much about sharks.
[21:36]And my son Aiden loves numbers, like love's math,
[21:41]love stories about mathematicians and the discovery of math.
[21:44]And kind of anything that, like I said,
[21:46]arguably everything has math underlying it.
[21:48]But like, you know, things that more obviously have math
[21:50]kind of underlying it, like, you know,
[21:52]the discovery of different planets or things
[21:54]in the solar system.
[21:56]And so it is true that so much of our free time
[21:58]while our kids are awake is reading time with our kids.
[22:02]And then, you know, for me, like, for pleasure,
[22:06]I love reading, I love reading history.
[22:09]I also love detective books, especially in the last four years.
[22:13]I really, I like books, admittedly where like,
[22:17]the bad guy is caught and the mystery is solved.
[22:21]And there are consequences for evil.
[22:25]So I've read like, I've always liked a good detective story,
[22:28]but I have read far more mysteries, probably,
[22:31]in the last kind of four or five years
[22:33]because of everything else happening in the world
[22:36]that I would have read probably otherwise in total candor.
[22:41]So that's a little bit of what we like to read.
[22:43]And then I always, I try to read my friend's books.
[22:45]So like my friend Sarah Lewis is Professor Harvard
[22:47]is a new book coming out on Carrie Mae Weems,
[22:50]the amazing kind of American artist.
[22:52]So I think that's an important third category too.
[22:54]Like, you know, not just supporting my friends,
[22:56]but like, wanting to know more about their work
[22:58]and like how they've spent time over often like the years
[23:00]that they've spent, you know, working on their books.
[23:04]That is so interesting about the mysteries
[23:06]and the root of, it's like aspirational reading
[23:11]or something, you know, it's like, it's definitely,
[23:15]I mean, I have far too much respect
[23:16]for what actually happens in therapy to say that it's therapy,
[23:19]but it has some real, I think, therapeutic effect for me.
[23:24]I'm like, oh, like there's a beginning, middle and end.
[23:26]At least in the mysteries I read, like they don't,
[23:28]they're not open-ended.
[23:30]The bad guys caught a really like reading books,
[23:32]admittedly they were like women detective.
[23:35]So often it's like the woman catching the bad guy
[23:37]or the bad gal.
[23:39]And yeah, yeah, it's great to live in that world
[23:43]for the few hours that I deal.
[23:44]Amazing.
[23:45]I almost never read detective stories.
[23:47]And now I'm gonna like think twice about that.
[23:50]Like let me know.
[23:51]Like I have so many detective stories in series.
[23:55]I love series I have to say.
[23:57]I love like the development of characters
[24:00]over many, many books.
[24:03]And I will say I also really,
[24:04]I do like one kind of my love of history
[24:06]and my love of detective sort of like can merge
[24:08]with kind of historical detective series.
[24:11]But now I've like brought a lot into much about this.
[24:13]No, that's a great, no, I'm sorry.
[24:15]No, what advice would you have to aspiring authors?
[24:21]Right.
[24:22]I mean, truly, I've now been really lucky enough
[24:24]to do some writing workshops with especially like younger,
[24:28]younger writers and kids who want to write for other kids.
[24:32]And I know this may sound obvious
[24:34]and it may not sound particularly useful.
[24:37]At least for me though, it really is
[24:39]like the practice of writing.
[24:41]I often, I mean, I spent a lot of time editing.
[24:44]I mean, I spend so much time editing
[24:45]even like my sheep resisted books
[24:48]to try to get those like two or three sentences right.
[24:50]But I especially for the first sheep resisted,
[24:53]you know, I wrote like a page or two for each woman.
[24:56]And then I would really work hard to get done
[24:57]to a paragraph.
[24:58]And then the paragraph is still too long
[25:00]and kind of just further condensed.
[25:02]And I think some people may just spend a lot of time
[25:04]like thinking about and spend, you know,
[25:06]maybe days trying to think about this perfect sentences
[25:09]and the work goes on in their heads.
[25:11]But for me, the work really goes on
[25:13]and the connective process of like from my heads
[25:17]to the page, back to my head, to the page, back to the page.
[25:20]And so I just think the best advice that I can give
[25:23]is just to write.
[25:24]Yeah, I feel like any time you condense
[25:27]and have to go to a shorter word count, it always improves.
[25:30]You know, like it never gets worse cutting things down.
[25:35]Great artwork, right?
[25:36]If I had had more time, I would have written shorter letter.
[25:38]So it's awesome, you know, and any genre.
[25:42]Chelsea, thank you so much.
[25:44]Thank you for coming on Monster of the Country books.
[25:46]Thanks for this totally candid fun conversation.
[25:48]And I feel like it just like had coffee
[25:50]with a girlfriend or something.
[25:51]And I hope our facts cross again.
[25:53]This is great.
[25:54]Do thanks so much to be for having me on.
[25:55]All right, thanks.
[25:56]Take care.
[25:57]Bye-bye.
[25:58]Thanks so much to beekeepers' naturals
[26:01]for helping me through a sixth day
[26:03]with the amazing cough syrup and cough spray,
[26:06]throw spray that you have.
[26:07]And thanks for helping all my listeners.
[26:10]Be keepersnaturals.com slash no time promo code no time.
[26:15]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms
[26:17]don't have time to read books.
[26:18]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[26:21]and at moms don't have time to read books.
[26:23]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[26:26]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:28]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:30]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[26:33]for the Sound Editing.
[26:34]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:36]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.