Dr. Harold Koplewicz, THE SCAFFOLD EFFECT
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[3:20]has been sponsored by This Is Everything with Ali Levine, a podcast hosted by Hollywood mom,
[3:26]celebrity stylist, influencer, and Bravo reality star, Ali Levine. On her podcast, you'll get a mix
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[3:49]yesterday started our February book blast. Sometimes I end up with just so many amazing episodes
[3:55]that I have to release a whole bunch at once. So today is day two of the February book blast.
[4:01]And today is nonfiction Tuesday. If you missed it yesterday was memoir Monday. And then we have
[4:06]literary fiction coming on Wednesday, new novels Thursday, and family theme memoirs on Friday.
[4:11]So stick with us for the whole week. Dr. Harold S. Koppelowitz MD is the author of the scaffold
[4:18]effect, raising resilient self-reliant and secure kids in the age of anxiety. Dr. Koppelowitz is
[4:24]one of the nation's leading child and adolescent psychiatrists. The founding president and medical
[4:29]director of the Child Mind Institute, New York City, and San Mateo, California, he has repeatedly
[4:34]been named in America's top doctors, best doctors in America, and New York magazine's best
[4:39]doctors in New York. He has appeared on today, CBS News, CNN, the Oprah Winfrey Show, and Anderson
[4:45]Cooper 360, and is quoted regularly in the New York Times USA Today and the Wall Street Journal.
[4:50]He lives with his wife in New York City. You can learn more at ChildMind.org.
[4:54]Welcome Dr. Koppelowitz. Thank you so much for coming. On moms, don't have time to read books.
[4:58]Oh, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here.
[5:01]This is such a treat because you and I work so closely with the Child Mind Institute,
[5:06]which you founded in 2009 and which you run amazingly, which helps everybody in the world with
[5:12]childhood mental illness. Do you mind talking just for two seconds about Child Mind Institute before
[5:17]we talk about your amazing book, the scaffold effect? Sure. So in 2009, we decided a group of us
[5:24]that we needed an independent nonprofit that was exclusively dedicated to children's mental
[5:29]health disorders. And if you think about it, this country has done this before with other
[5:33]disorders, St. Jude's Children's Hospital for over 50 years has focused with laser precision
[5:39]on childhood cancer. And while that's a very important thing, there's only 15,000 kids in the
[5:44]United States who have cancer and there's 17 million who have a mental health disorder, which means
[5:49]that everyone listening knows and loves one of these kids. It's one out of five. So if you're,
[5:54]if it's not your child, then attorneys and nephew or your best friend's child. So we thought
[5:59]we needed that independent nonprofit that would play with everyone and collaborate with everyone,
[6:04]but only be focused no matter what on the mental health needs of kids first and foremost in the
[6:10]United States and now, frankly, globally. And when COVID hit, we had to close the doors to the
[6:16]Child Mind Institute's physical sites in California, New York. And in 48 hours, we became a
[6:21]a telemental health product. And we've now seen over 300 kids every day on screens and a few
[6:28]kids in person in both sites. But more importantly, I think we recognize that parents were desperate
[6:34]for information during COVID on how to deal with distance learning, how to deal with kids,
[6:39]you know, anxiety on their demoralization because they're losing so many things big and small.
[6:45]And so we produced over 160 Facebook lives on parenting during COVID.
[6:50]And every day we had one for a while in Spanish and in English now, it's once a week.
[6:54]But we started to realize that parents want a authoritative, scientifically sound information.
[7:00]And because of that, we don't take money from the pharmaceutical industry, from liquor,
[7:05]from tobacco and guns. So parents can trust childmind.org. And it's turned out to be very rewarding
[7:10]because the need is there and parents more so than ever are reaching for information that can make
[7:17]them better parents and make their kids have an easier time. Well, it's so great because you
[7:22]have this amazing website, childmind.org, which has been such a resource for me over
[7:27]you can Google anything. You can find it's always a child mind that has like the right answers.
[7:32]And then of course you do all of this work to combat the stigma of childhood mental illness,
[7:37]which is so important. And the research to find a biomarker. So it was really interesting with
[7:41]stigma. For years, we've run a campaign called hashtag my younger self. So you get important
[7:46]influential individuals who will discuss in a minute or two, their struggle as a kid with either
[7:53]ADHD, anxiety, depression, dyslexia. But this year, we went with hashtag we thrive inside and
[7:59]we got 40 remarkable movie stars, politicians, poets who were talking about how would they
[8:06]managing their mental health while they had to stay inside and what was going inside their head.
[8:11]And believe it or not, so we got 250 million eyeballs, not only, you know, four or five billion
[8:17]media impressions, but 250 million people came to watch one of those videos. So I think that,
[8:23]you know, COVID has been a horrific experience for so many kids and so many parents and so many
[8:29]families, but it also forced us to be innovative and recognize that there had to be a new way to
[8:34]get information out there to parents and to give kids hope that this too will pass.
[8:39]Amazing. It's amazing. I'm so honored to be a board member and I know I'm never,
[8:45]I'm not doing my part enough, but it's not for lack of loyalty.
[8:50]So Zivi, as we are about to talk about the scaffold effect, one of the most important things we
[8:54]talk about childcare is self care. You amaze me because the word juggling and being a master juggler,
[9:00]because I know you have four kids, I know you're married, I know you're a dedicated daughter
[9:05]and granddaughter and sister, but on top of that, you're an entrepreneur and you're a philanthropist.
[9:11]You really, you really not only talk to talk, you're walking the walk. So the fact that you're
[9:16]doing this, I think, it's perfect because you're one of the moms who does find time to read
[9:21]so that the other moms and dads, by the way, who can't read can get some wisdom from you.
[9:25]So, you know, I'm a big, I've always been a big fan. So that's why it's an honor for me,
[9:29]A, to have you on the board of the job and institute, but to spend time with you.
[9:33]Oh, that's just so nice. Yes, I have to say, and you will be proud of me,
[9:37]that when I read the whole section on self care yesterday morning, I was like, okay,
[9:42]I am not doing any of these things. Like, I was imagining myself talking to you and you were saying,
[9:46]here, I have to find the right section. You would be saying to me, well, are you doing this? Are you
[9:50]eating greens? Are you exercising? Are you sleeping? Are you eating well? And I was thinking,
[9:57]I am not doing any of those things. So...
[10:00]I finally got myself on the Peloton yesterday,
[10:02]because of your column, of course, now.
[10:05]Oh, here, self-care checklist.
[10:07]Yeah, exercise, sleep.
[10:09]This is for parents, but, okay.
[10:11]Exercise, sleep, green food, affection, nature walks,
[10:15]play dates with friends.
[10:16]I'm never too old for a play date.
[10:18]Alone time, creative time, romantic time,
[10:20]laughter, music, hobbies, volunteering, meditation.
[10:24]I don't know any mom out there who is finding time
[10:27]for all these things.
[10:28]If you are finding time for every single thing on this list,
[10:30]well, I think of it as a Chinese menu.
[10:33]I mean, you can just have a few.
[10:35]Do you mean, or, you know, alicard,
[10:38]you can pick from the top or the bottom?
[10:40]But if you, you know, I always,
[10:42]I have to tell you every time I'm on an airplane,
[10:44]and the flight attendant says,
[10:46]please put the mask on yourself before you put it on your kid,
[10:49]it just seems wrong.
[10:51]Do you mean if God forbid I was on an airplane,
[10:53]and the oxygen was missing,
[10:54]I would race to give it to my son or to one of my sons,
[10:58]and it doesn't help because you give it to your son,
[11:01]and then you might not be able to put it on yourself
[11:03]because you'll be dizzy or you'll be unconscious.
[11:06]And so the idea that we have to take care of ourselves
[11:09]is not in our DNA, but first ourselves,
[11:12]so we have the strength to take care of our kids.
[11:14]And more than one kid sometimes.
[11:17]Well, this just goes to the whole theme of your book,
[11:20]which is so brilliant, and I can't believe it hasn't been
[11:22]thought of before as like the perfect analogy,
[11:25]this whole notion of scaffolding,
[11:27]and then really it's your child that's being built
[11:30]and the blueprint and the foundation and everything,
[11:32]and you are just like around the outside,
[11:34]you're just trying to help as it grows,
[11:36]and then once it's fully formed,
[11:38]you can start taking down the scaffolding,
[11:40]which I would like to have taken down.
[11:41]And if your child's been paying attention,
[11:43]they'll know when to put the scaffolding back,
[11:45]you know, to go up to college and struggling with essay writing,
[11:49]they'll go to the center for the writing center
[11:53]to get some extra help.
[11:54]That's a scaffold, you know,
[11:56]if they need a tutor in math, they will get one.
[11:59]You mean, because it's not that you're hovering all the time,
[12:03]you've built a confident, strong building.
[12:06]I think the one part that we have to always remember, though,
[12:09]is that as you're building that scaffold, you know,
[12:11]and you're youth pillars, you know, structure and support
[12:15]and encouragement, then you have planks,
[12:17]but the important part is to recognize
[12:19]that the building sometimes it has decided
[12:21]to become a ranch, not a skyscraper.
[12:24]I mean, and we can't force that
[12:27]because otherwise you're all gonna be very disappointed
[12:31]and it's not gonna be a sturdy, you know, structure.
[12:34]I always think about the fact that my oldest son
[12:36]was great at science, I wanted him to be a doctor.
[12:39]Now, I never said it out loud, but, you know,
[12:42]it just made sense, you're good at science,
[12:44]you're good at math, you know, I love being a doctor,
[12:47]you know, why wouldn't I want my kid to be a doctor?
[12:49]And at a certain point, it became very clear.
[12:51]He actually said it to me in high school.
[12:53]He said, I hate blood deaths.
[12:55]You know, I'll have to become a psychiatrist
[12:58]if I become a doctor.
[12:59]I don't really like kids, he said,
[13:01]so I'll always be the wrong doctor, God's fluids.
[13:03]And he then at a certain point decided
[13:06]that he loved being a DJ.
[13:08]I mean, so totally out of character
[13:11]was a very socially read-a-some guy,
[13:13]but okay, that we were building a split level.
[13:16]That's what we were getting.
[13:17]And so he was a white Jewish DJ, Mark Ronson,
[13:21]DJ Cassidy and DJ Josh K.
[13:23]And really into it and it looked terrific
[13:26]and he was gonna go finish, he was at Brown,
[13:28]which is the perfect match.
[13:30]And he was gonna go off to LA afterwards.
[13:32]And the summer between his junior and his senior year,
[13:35]he went and worked at Goldman Sachs,
[13:37]which didn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
[13:39]And it was kind of a cultural mismatch.
[13:41]He was still DJing, he was producing
[13:44]a movement documentary called Pigeon Men
[13:46]about Irish convicts who competitively fly pigeons.
[13:49]And the whole thing didn't make sense
[13:51]that he was going to go in and at six weeks,
[13:53]they gave him a review and they said to him,
[13:55]by the way, you're a bad communicator,
[13:57]you're not enthusiastic and you're intellectually
[14:00]not curious.
[14:01]And to his credit, he stood up and he said,
[14:03]you know, I couldn't be a better communicator.
[14:06]I'm naturally, I'm biochemically not enthusiastic.
[14:08]I don't smile enough, but I'm always intellectually
[14:10]curiously ripped apart the five deals.
[14:13]And they said, well, we're surprised.
[14:15]And for the next four weeks, he was a maniac.
[14:18]He would go to work in a taxi, screaming at himself
[14:20]in the back of the cab, smile, smile.
[14:22]I mean, why?
[14:23]It didn't make any sense to me.
[14:25]And of course, at the end of the summer,
[14:27]he calls us and he says, I have good news and bad news.
[14:29]I said, what's the bad news?
[14:30]I have to tell you the good news,
[14:31]the good news is I got a job over from Goldman Sachs.
[14:34]And if you, if I sign right away, I get $10,000,
[14:38]what's the bad news?
[14:39]I got a job over at Goldman Sachs.
[14:41]So I said, this seems like a cultural mismatch.
[14:44]And I can't get over the fact that he decided,
[14:47]no, private equity is what he wants to do.
[14:49]He's running a private equity firm today.
[14:52]And it's an example, Zibi, of recognizing,
[14:55]I'm not getting a skyscraper.
[14:57]I'm gotten used to getting the split level.
[14:59]And then he says, guess what?
[15:01]I'm building a ranch.
[15:02]And if you want to be a good parent,
[15:04]if you want your kid to feel confident,
[15:07]you still support, you still structure,
[15:09]and you still give encouragement.
[15:11]It's, I find it fascinating, because he speaks
[15:13]a different language.
[15:14]He spoke a different language when he was a DJ.
[15:16]And now he talks his money, this finance talk,
[15:19]where I'm nodding my head pretending,
[15:21]I know what he's talking about.
[15:22]But that's what a good scaffold does.
[15:25]It moves around.
[15:27]It doesn't say it's set and cement.
[15:30]You have to do this.
[15:31]So it happens to all of us, by the way.
[15:33]But I think if you remember the pillars,
[15:37]structures, support, encouragement.
[15:39]And then there are planks that really are very important.
[15:42]And the one plank that I have so much trouble
[15:44]with is dispassion.
[15:46]There's part of me that feels like,
[15:48]what the hell are you doing to step out of it?
[15:50]And that just doesn't work.
[15:52]Do you mean whether you too much crying, too much yelling,
[15:55]too much laughter, it has to be their building, not your building?
[15:59]I feel like you were hard on yourself
[16:01]when you told the whole story of your son going to camp
[16:04]and your own how you brought your own emotions
[16:06]about your separation and your unfortunate time at camp.
[16:10]And you actually, I found you beating yourself up.
[16:14]And I was like, I don't think you did anything wrong here,
[16:16]personally, by telling your kid how sad you were about it.
[16:18]But anyway.
[16:20]So the only problem was that he got to, you know,
[16:23]I was so keen on my wife, their mother, love camp.
[16:27]From the time she was seven to the time
[16:29]it was 14, she couldn't wait, okay?
[16:31]And she actually swam in college to play tennis and college.
[16:33]She was a natural athlete.
[16:34]I wasn't, but I was also separation anxious.
[16:37]That's what it was.
[16:38]I missed my mom and dad so desperately that it was hard
[16:42]to sleep, it was hard to concentrate.
[16:43]So my kids were really good athletes
[16:46]because of me, because of the genes,
[16:47]you know, they inherited from their mother.
[16:49]So when they went to camp and I came up there
[16:52]and the Joshua was really struggling.
[16:55]Do you mean he said, I wanna go home
[16:56]and when we walked into the woods,
[16:58]he said to me, dad, there's no one here to love me.
[17:01]And I felt like, oh my God, he knows how to throw a ball.
[17:04]He knows how to serve a tennis, you know, in tennis,
[17:07]but he's got the separation anxiety.
[17:09]I literally got weepy and Eden was comforting me.
[17:13]The fact that he then started comforting me
[17:16]was the part that is not dispassioned.
[17:18]Do you mean, it's all right to show your kid
[17:20]that you're upset, that you empathize, you have warmth,
[17:23]but it's not his job to say dad, don't cry.
[17:26]It's my job to say, okay, you know,
[17:28]how are we going to work this through?
[17:30]How are we gonna figure out your life at camp?
[17:32]So it's easier than it's more fun.
[17:34]And there are times where you say, okay,
[17:35]this, you know, we declare victory.
[17:37]You're coming home, you mean, it's,
[17:39]but, you know, parenting, in my opinion,
[17:43]is the best thing you could ever do.
[17:45]I remember distinctly holding my first kid
[17:48]in the delivery room and thinking,
[17:50]this is amazing.
[17:50]Well, that oxytocin isn't fair.
[17:53]Everyone's so euphoric, the baby actually looks
[17:55]like my father-in-law and my mother.
[17:57]I mean, it's this weird sensation.
[17:59]And then you realize that there's no book,
[18:02]there's no test, there's no license.
[18:05]And yet it can be the most rewarding experience.
[18:08]And it truly changes you.
[18:09]Yes, getting married changes you,
[18:11]but all of a sudden, it's this one-way street
[18:15]where you realize you are the scaffold.
[18:17]They're not scaffolding you.
[18:18]You really have a terrific job
[18:20]in letting them be who they're supposed to be
[18:22]and just help them guide the building along.
[18:24]And you also bring up this really important point,
[18:27]which I think has not been articulated quite as well
[18:30]before about parent burnout and how to tell if you're,
[18:33]I mean, you have all these great ways
[18:35]for parents to identify what's going on with their kids,
[18:38]right? You have how you know if it's a normal level
[18:40]of anxiety versus a problematic level of anxiety
[18:43]versus an anxiety disorder.
[18:44]But then you let us do it as parents do
[18:47]and how to know if you're actually going through burnout,
[18:50]which, gosh, in like with the pandemic,
[18:52]I mean, you have normal problem disorder.
[18:55]Like several times a day you think,
[18:56]I'm a bad parent.
[18:57]That means you have parental burnout disorder.
[19:00]Oh my gosh, I must have it.
[19:01]Well, you are exhausted.
[19:03]Well, I don't feel any resentment.
[19:05]When you look at your child,
[19:06]you don't feel like the same connection you once did,
[19:07]you feel extreme irritation and frustration
[19:09]as a parent without reason.
[19:11]You react with verbal or physical abuse,
[19:13]well, no, of course not.
[19:14]To your child, I don't know.
[19:15]Let's talk about parental burnout for a minute
[19:17]because with everybody at home,
[19:18]with their kids for 11 months now.
[19:21]Right.
[19:22]So I didn't write the book, thinking about COVID, right?
[19:24]You better than anyone know how long it takes
[19:29]to come up with an idea for a book, write the outline,
[19:33]get a publisher, write the book,
[19:35]and then it takes almost nine months for the publisher
[19:37]to publish the book.
[19:39]So this wasn't when I was thinking about it.
[19:41]And now, since we're in the middle of COVID,
[19:43]more so than ever, I think everyone has to scaffold their kids
[19:46]and they have to scaffold themselves.
[19:48]So there's this, I think that most of us wake up
[19:52]and it's Groundhog's Day, you know, again with the mask
[19:57]and the news is so disconcerting because...
[20:00]We're going in the wrong direction.
[20:01]We're going in the right direction.
[20:02]We're running out of vaccine.
[20:03]So it's really important to stay in the moment.
[20:07]If there was ever a time to prevent,
[20:09]to help you prevent burnout is,
[20:11]to just worry about the moment.
[20:13]I mean, you know, breathe one breath in, one breath out.
[20:17]I think of the fact that I love to hike.
[20:19]And I was hiking in Chile,
[20:21]and lots of young people around me,
[20:23]10, 20 years younger.
[20:25]And someone said to me,
[20:26]oh my God, it's so much fun hiking with you
[20:28]because you walk so determined.
[20:32]And so gradual, and I'm thinking,
[20:34]I'm trying to get one breath in and one breath out.
[20:37]I'm walking slow because I'm barely breathing.
[20:40]But that's how we have to deal sometimes.
[20:43]That, okay, I'm in the moment.
[20:45]I'm going to appreciate the flowers
[20:47]and the sounds of the birds.
[20:50]And I'm going to get one breath in and one breath out.
[20:52]I will get through this.
[20:54]And I will take breaks.
[20:56]I will step back and say, I need a second wind.
[20:59]And I think that right now to prevent
[21:02]parent burnout goes back to great childcare is self care.
[21:06]And I think there's so many easy ways to restart yourself.
[21:09]So can we get back into good sleep hygiene?
[21:12]Can we try to get close to eight hours?
[21:14]Can we force ourselves to turn off everything
[21:17]at 12 o'clock and stay asleep to late o'clock?
[21:21]Okay, seven o'clock.
[21:22]Or can we go to bed at 11?
[21:24]Can we get on a routine?
[21:26]Because routines work for kids, but they also work for us.
[21:29]And even if we just do a minute of mindfulness every day,
[21:32]just sit with our thoughts for 60 seconds.
[21:35]And no matter how disturbing the thoughts
[21:36]are, just let them don't judge them.
[21:39]That and his self will help.
[21:40]But I think we also have to be kinder.
[21:42]So this is my internist just said to me, be careful.
[21:45]After COVID, there'll be three types of people,
[21:47]humps, chunks, and drunks.
[21:49]And I thought, you know what?
[21:51]It is so funny.
[21:52]I never had so much lip to go out to that house, you know?
[21:55]We'd say it again, humps.
[21:57]Humps, chunks, and drunks.
[21:59]And if I'm not careful, I'm gonna be a drunken chunk.
[22:02]So, you know, but you can't tomorrow lose 10 pounds, right?
[22:07]You can take a walk every day, you know, no matter what.
[22:10]And if you can't take a walk, you can get on the elliptical.
[22:13]If you can't get on the elliptical,
[22:14]you can at least do some stretching.
[22:17]Simple, you know, bite-sized pieces.
[22:20]And just think about it,
[22:21]if you're not only doing it for yourself,
[22:23]you're doing it so that you can be a better parent.
[22:26]So if you don't wanna just do it
[22:28]because you deserve it, you're doing it
[22:30]because without having strength,
[22:32]without having sleep, without eating well.
[22:35]But that also having some fun.
[22:37]I mean, this is the hard part of COVID.
[22:40]It's really hard to have fun, you know,
[22:44]especially for extroverts, people like me.
[22:46]This is, you know, it's one thing talking to people
[22:49]on a screen, but it's so nice to have human contact.
[22:52]And it's freezing cold here in the Northeast.
[22:54]So, you know, you're not gonna be able to have a meal
[22:58]with someone, you're gonna have to have a brisk walk.
[23:00]You mean, you're, there's ways around this
[23:03]if you know what you need.
[23:04]And if you take care of your own needs,
[23:06]then I really think again,
[23:07]you'll have the energy to be of a structure,
[23:11]support and encouragement for your kids.
[23:13]Because this is hard.
[23:14]This is, I don't wanna minimize how challenging it is
[23:17]to be a very good parent.
[23:19]Can we talk for just two seconds about anxiety
[23:22]in the time of COVID?
[23:23]And I know this isn't even in your book.
[23:24]And I hope that I've made a good case for everybody
[23:26]to read the scaffold effect.
[23:27]And the subtitle is raising resilience, self-reliant
[23:30]and secure kids in an age of anxiety.
[23:32]So I just wanna talk a little more about anxiety
[23:34]because typically anxiety and an anxiety disorder
[23:38]in particular is when you have irrational levels of fear
[23:43]about something, well, that's part of it, right?
[23:45]But there is actually something to be super afraid of.
[23:49]So when like my daughter says she's really worried
[23:52]and talks about it a lot, I'm like,
[23:54]well, I'm also really worried about it,
[23:56]but who knows, because I also have so much anxiety.
[23:58]I don't even know what to say.
[24:00]But there is actually like a big deal.
[24:02]It's not like we're on a plane worried
[24:04]if it's gonna crash and the odds are not really high
[24:07]and it's irrational.
[24:08]It is actually possible and it's happening to everybody.
[24:11]And especially like in families like ours
[24:13]where we've lost people in the family,
[24:15]like Kyle's mom and grandma, they're like,
[24:17]we've seen it up close.
[24:18]So how do you deal with like a combination basically
[24:22]of like anxiety or PTSD when things in the world
[24:24]are literally anxiety provoking?
[24:27]Does that still mean you have anxiety?
[24:29]Is it, is it happening?
[24:30]No, so I think it's normal, but how do you manage anxiety?
[24:33]Again, to think about it from the scaffolding works
[24:37]even if you have an anxiety disorder, right?
[24:39]But more so than ever, I think we need
[24:42]to scaffold ourselves and scaffold others.
[24:44]So what do we say we're wearing a mask?
[24:46]We wash our hands frequently.
[24:48]We do social distancing.
[24:49]We are doing everything possible to avoid getting this virus.
[24:54]But it's a very catchy virus.
[24:56]And if that happens, we are going to,
[25:00]things are better today than they were last March
[25:04]when the doctors are better at treating it.
[25:06]So even if we get it, we will be able to get
[25:10]a different type of treatment than we had before.
[25:12]But we're not going to get it.
[25:13]We're going to try every possible way,
[25:15]but still live our lives in a new way, right?
[25:18]So we're clearly not going to go to a big party.
[25:21]We're clearly going to only go to people
[25:23]that we know are following the same rules and regulations.
[25:26]But it's normal to be scared, you know,
[25:28]I'm uncomfortable also, but I'm getting used
[25:31]to this new normal.
[25:32]It reminds me of the 9-11.
[25:34]I was doing the today show a lot and Katie Kirk was the host
[25:38]and we actually were friends, we were neighbors.
[25:40]And I was doing a piece with her.
[25:42]And I said, you know, the President's in charge,
[25:45]nothing bad is going to happen.
[25:46]Everyone, you know, we learned from our mistakes.
[25:48]And Katie actually said, on the air, well, how do you know?
[25:51]I said, because we learned from our mistakes.
[25:54]I thought, is she going to say chicken little?
[25:56]The sky is blowing.
[25:57]And once we were off the air, Katie said to me,
[26:01]you know what, I feel like her husband had passed away
[26:04]just a year before she said, I feel like Jay just died again.
[26:07]The kids are back in my bed.
[26:09]We're so regressed.
[26:10]I'm on TV four hours a day instead of two hours.
[26:13]And so it can overwhelm.
[26:14]Do you mean any can distort your cognitions?
[26:17]Because you get so anxious to think yourself,
[26:19]well, I'm going to wash my hands one more time.
[26:21]And you have to balance it with saying,
[26:23]I'm going to do everything that I'm supposed to do
[26:25]to keep my kid safe and keep my husband safe and keep me safe.
[26:29]And if possible, my parents,
[26:31]but I'm going to live a different kind of life.
[26:33]I'm not, you know, I'm not going to indoor restaurants.
[26:36]Or if I do go into an indoor restaurant,
[26:38]I know there's a certain amount of risk
[26:39]and I'm willing to take it.
[26:41]And I think that's what we have to do with our kids.
[26:44]I think schools are struggling with this.
[26:46]They're in session.
[26:46]They're out of session.
[26:47]They're online.
[26:49]I think I told you that my wife teaches,
[26:52]middle school students art.
[26:53]It is so challenging on a screen.
[26:56]I hear her.
[26:57]It sounds like a reality television show.
[26:58]The kid Jason has fallen off the screen.
[27:01]Jason, they're huge.
[27:02]And then she's doing stretching.
[27:04]Why is there stretching?
[27:06]Everyone stand up and stretch.
[27:08]So she said that, you know, to take,
[27:10]and she's not accepting which I keep saying,
[27:13]everyone has to readjust their expectations for this year.
[27:16]And it's like talking to a wall.
[27:18]No, she is going to still teach the kid's perspective.
[27:20]And they're going to make Greek masks.
[27:22]And how are you getting the material to all the kids?
[27:25]And she's writing progress reports.
[27:27]And I'm thinking, you know, she said,
[27:29]she actually will tell you I'm doing it
[27:31]because I think it's good for the kids to know
[27:33]that they're still a routine.
[27:35]We're still, we haven't given up yet.
[27:36]But I think that's, there is limitations.
[27:39]And I think that's all right.
[27:40]Because that'll make you less anxious.
[27:42]If you think to yourself,
[27:43]this is not a year where I'm expecting everyone to get A's.
[27:47]I mean, some of us are driven to always do our best.
[27:51]I mean, that's part of the anxiety.
[27:53]This is one of those years,
[27:54]but best is actually going to be different.
[27:57]And, and Debbie, being a podcaster,
[27:59]this is a year for podcasts.
[28:00]This is a year for reading books.
[28:02]This is not the year to go to the theater
[28:04]or go to movie theaters or go to the ballet.
[28:07]It's, it's a different year.
[28:09]And I think managing that for our kids
[28:11]and modeling that for our kids is really, very, very important.
[28:15]And very hard because you don't want to tell them,
[28:18]don't worry.
[28:19]You have to say to them, what are you worried about?
[28:22]The other thing that I have to tell you
[28:23]that in the scaffold effect,
[28:24]that would hope people will take away,
[28:26]is there's one piece where we're talking about awareness.
[28:29]And it's very interesting to tell kids
[28:32]and tell ourselves what is wrong.
[28:34]I think we're hardwired to fix things,
[28:37]you know, particularly parents.
[28:38]And if you could remember,
[28:40]can I catch my kid doing something good?
[28:42]Can I, can I say three specific, positive things
[28:46]to my child for every one critical thing?
[28:51]And by the way, it's a husband of 40 years.
[28:53]It's not a bad thing to consider with your spouse, right?
[28:56]And I forget it all the time.
[28:57]Do you mean it's kind of like,
[28:59]where's the coffee, you know,
[29:00]where's this, did any, you know,
[29:02]how come we can't, you know,
[29:03]is no, I'm gonna iron my shirts?
[29:04]No, that was kind of your shirts.
[29:06]If this kind of rapid complaining, complaining, complaining,
[29:10]which after a while, it's very hard to hear the good stuff
[29:14]when you say, God, you smell great or you look so beautiful.
[29:17]And I think that if we consciously are where
[29:20]that we have that negative tracking,
[29:22]it's part of the things that we do all the time.
[29:24]We are looking to fix things
[29:26]so we're always watching what the kid's doing wrong.
[29:28]And then the second thing we do is confirmation bias.
[29:31]It's, you know, we're watching only Fox.
[29:34]We're only watching MSNBC, but more importantly,
[29:37]we see certain children as bad
[29:39]and certain children as good.
[29:41]And then they can't get out of the box.
[29:43]And we have to pull back.
[29:45]That's the whole concept of making a new blueprint.
[29:47]And I think that's so important to me
[29:49]because otherwise, COVID is just gonna make parenting
[29:53]extra hard, scaffolding is gonna make it somewhat easier.
[29:56]It gives you that structure, no pun intended
[29:59]to try to,
[30:00]make things easier for you on a day-to-day basis.
[30:02]And also to do over, I love the idea that parents are
[30:06]allowed to say, I think that was a mistake
[30:09]I'm taking a do over.
[30:10]So it's not written in ink.
[30:14]It's written in pencil.
[30:15]We'll erase and we'll do it again.
[30:17]I love it.
[30:18]Well, that's one of the things that
[30:19]was so effective about this book
[30:21]is that instead of just giving theories or general ideas,
[30:25]you give such specific advice that is really actionable.
[30:29]And I think that's the thing that we're all,
[30:31]I speak on behalf of parents everywhere.
[30:33]Very grateful to receive.
[30:34]Well, thank you.
[30:35]It's a non-judgmental way.
[30:36]So it's awesome.
[30:38]So thank you for coming on this podcast.
[30:40]Thank you for this amazing resource,
[30:42]the scaffold effects for parents everywhere.
[30:44]It is like a must have on your bedside table.
[30:47]Really awesome, particularly now.
[30:49]So congratulations on the back.
[30:52]Thank you, Zivian.
[30:53]Thank you so much for having the conversation with me.
[30:55]It's always a pleasure.
[30:56]Now you see why I am often too busy for board meetings.
[30:59]Because I do this all day long.
[31:02]Now I get it.
[31:03]I'll be there.
[31:04]Next time.
[31:06]OK, bye.
[31:07]Thank you.
[31:09]Today's episode has been sponsored by This Is Everything,
[31:12]the podcast by Ali Levine.
[31:14]And just a reminder, again, please pre-order a copy
[31:17]of my book, Moms Don't Have Time To, A Quarantine Anthology,
[31:21]and go to my website under the anthology tab
[31:25]for the fundraiser.
[31:26]And I hope you'll buy a ticket and join me
[31:29]for, and I should have mentioned, all proceeds go
[31:32]to COVID-19 research.
[31:33]So please join me for the fundraiser.
[31:36]Thanks so much.
[31:37]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[31:39]to Read Books.
[31:40]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zivian's,
[31:43]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[31:46]Also sign up for my newsletter, at Zivian's.com,
[31:48]and sign up for my virtual book club,
[31:50]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[31:52]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[31:55]for the Sound Editing.
[31:56]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[31:58]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.