Lauren Fox, SEND FOR ME
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[3:49]Hi, everybody. Today is day three of the February book blast. And it is literary fiction Wednesday.
[3:56]So I hope you enjoy all of these authors and interviews. Sometimes so many collect that I have to
[4:02]just blast out a bunch all at once. And that's what this week is all about. So if you missed
[4:06]memoir Monday or nonfiction Tuesday, you can go back and listen to those. And coming up is new
[4:11]novels Thursday and family theme memoirs Friday. So listen as much as you can. Lauren Fox is the author
[4:17]of Send for Me. Lauren earned her MFA from the University of Minnesota and is the author of the
[4:22]novels days of awe, friends like us, and still life with husband. Her work has appeared in numerous
[4:28]publications, including The New York Times, Marie Claire, parenting, psychology today,
[4:33]The Rumpus, and Salon. She lives in Milwaukee with her husband and two daughters.
[4:37]Welcome, Lauren. Thanks so much for coming on mom's. Don't have time to read books.
[4:40]Thanks so much for having me. I am so excited to discuss Send for Me because this book is gorgeous
[4:47]and heartbreaking and just so great. It's so well written. And it was just really, really great.
[4:55]So anyway, I loved it. I really love it. So tell listeners if you don't mind a little about
[5:00]Send for Me and what inspired you to write it and what it's about and all the good stuff.
[5:04]All the good stuff. So short answer is that it is about a family for generations of women
[5:11]starting in Germany, kind of on the cusp of World War II, and then jumping ahead in time
[5:16]to present date. Well, Milwaukee in the 90s. And it's about family separation and kind of the
[5:23]twin traumas of the Holocaust and that family rupture. It's about, I don't know if I think that
[5:29]there's a main character, but I kind of think of Analise as the main character in the book.
[5:32]And she is, as the Nazis are coming to power in the 1930s, she is able to leave Germany with
[5:38]her husband and young daughter, but she has to leave her parents behind. And the book is kind of
[5:42]about partly about her parents desperately trying to leave Germany and how she in Milwaukee is
[5:49]trying to have a life there and trying to bring her parents over. And then the contemporary timeline
[5:54]is about Analise's granddaughter, Claire, who discovers a stash of letters in her parents'
[5:59]basement that were written by Analise's mother, Clara, to Analise as they were trying to leave
[6:04]Germany and how Claire, the granddaughter, is kind of trying to live her life and trying to figure
[6:09]out how to pry herself away from her history and trying to figure out how to be in the world
[6:15]knowing her family's intense and traumatic history. Oh my gosh. And I understand that you actually
[6:21]found the letters, I shouldn't say I understand, it's like written in the book, but you found the
[6:27]letters that your grandmother will tell the whole story. Yeah, yeah. The other half of the question
[6:31]is what inspired me to write the book. And that is what inspired me to write the book. So it's
[6:35]fiction. It's very much fiction. All the characters are, you know, sort of a mishmash of my family,
[6:41]but also just, you know, I mean, I'm a fiction writer. I made them up. So, but the story is my
[6:47]family story. And when I was in my 20s, I found letters in my parents' basement. My grandparents
[6:51]recently died. They had been living with us for years. And then all, so all of their belongings
[6:56]were in my parents' basement. And I was going through them one day. And I found, I still remember
[7:00]this moment so specifically. It was a little brown box with a pink ribbon around it. And in it were
[7:05]about 75 letters written on this crumbling onion skin paper. They were in German, but they were
[7:11]also in this German script that I can't describe it. It's like knife scratches on paper. It's
[7:15]just like up and down. And you can't, it's an old fashioned German script that hardly anyone can still
[7:20]read. So I found these letters. And I just knew like this moment stands out for me so vividly in my
[7:26]memory. I just knew that they were going to be important. It was almost kind of magical. I just
[7:30]knew that these letters were going to answer. We're kind of going to be like a key to unlock
[7:34]questions that I had had growing up. I knew my family's history because I live in the world. And I
[7:40]knew about, I mean, I learned about the Holocaust, but they really didn't talk about it. They were
[7:44]really, I think, you know, trauma affects people in different ways. Some people process and talk
[7:50]about it. And in my family, you know, they just, my family was so tight and so loving and so
[7:56]connected. But they just did not, my grandparents gave me little snippets of information throughout
[8:01]my life. I can count on one hand the number of times they talked about it. So I was able to get
[8:05]these letters translated. It's kind of a process, but I was a graduate student at the University
[8:10]of Minnesota. And I sort of stumbled on a professor who knew how he was in the German department.
[8:15]And he had survived the war. He was half Jewish and he had survived the war in Berlin passing.
[8:19]So he does a whole not a story. But so he took personal interest in my story and helped me
[8:24]translate the letters. So it took us about a year. I would go into his office once a week with a
[8:29]couple of letters and he would read them out loud into a little tape recorder. And then I would go
[8:34]home and transcribe them. So that is the inspiration for this book. It was really immersive. It was
[8:40]a really immersive project. Oh my gosh. And then you tried, you wrote in the letter in the book
[8:45]to readers that you tried to write it as memoir and then waited almost 20 years. And now you've
[8:50]come out with a distinction. Yes. What was it like writing it as memoir? Verse like now I want to read
[8:56]by the way, the memoir version. I don't want to read it. I don't know if it's good or not. I just
[9:02]like I want to know more about your family after reading this. And these were the actual letters
[9:08]that you understood. Yeah. So how is their story different? So it's different in so many ways. And
[9:16]it's also like the emotional foundation of the story is the same. This is insignificant. But my
[9:22]grandparents, my grandmother's family owned a butcher shop. Okay. And my grandfather was a cattle
[9:27]dealer. So that's how they met. And I'm in a vegetarian my whole life. I was like, I'm not writing
[9:32]about a butcher shop. So I put it, I placed it in a bakery instead. It was much more fun to research.
[9:37]But that's not, I mean, that's not the significant way that story is different. But you know,
[9:41]fiction writers are, I always say fiction writers are like magpies, just kind of like grabbing
[9:45]objects from, you know, right shiny objects wherever they see them. Like so it's such a weird
[9:50]thing to describe the process of taking a true story and fictionalizing it. Because I felt like,
[9:55]you know, in a world where there is such a thing, it's Holocaust denial. I felt
[10:00]a very strong obligation to tell this story as to tell it truthfully.
[10:05]So I promised myself I would not change a word of the letters.
[10:09]So in the process of reading them,
[10:11]transcribing them, editing them, every word
[10:14]of my great grandmothers in my novel is true.
[10:17]Those are her words.
[10:18]Other than that, like in order to sort of,
[10:20]you know, get into my character's heads,
[10:21]I had to give myself full permission to imagine them.
[10:23]So I mean, I, you know, I guess basically,
[10:26]along the short of it is the outline of my family story
[10:28]is absolutely true.
[10:30]And then all the details are, you know,
[10:32]combination of true and fiction and research.
[10:35]And, you know, wow.
[10:36]Well, I'm glad you changed it to the bakery
[10:39]because those were some of my favorite scenes
[10:42]and all the different confections.
[10:43]And I feel like you should,
[10:45]if maybe you've already done this or whatever,
[10:47]but like in conjunction with the launch of your book,
[10:49]you need to make all those things and like take.
[10:52]Oh, no, I do not.
[10:53]You don't.
[10:55]Not me.
[10:56]You need to source, let me rephrase.
[10:58]You need to find all of those things
[11:00]and like have them all displayed.
[11:01]Cause now I want to go see what all of those,
[11:04]like the different confections
[11:06]that you referred to throughout the book.
[11:07]I want to know what they look like.
[11:09]And my grandma was a really good baker.
[11:11]My kids are like, you know, mom,
[11:12]the reason your stuff doesn't turn out
[11:14]is cause you're always like, oh, that won't matter.
[11:15]Like I'm not in her talent.
[11:17]Or talent.
[11:19]I know, I'm like, well, we don't have buttermilk.
[11:22]Let me just Google and see what I can certainly-
[11:24]Well, you can make buttermilk.
[11:25]I have done this.
[11:27]I've done it too.
[11:28]I've made brownies the other day.
[11:29]And we didn't have any vegetable oil.
[11:31]So I used avocado oil.
[11:33]See, that's not good.
[11:34]No.
[11:34]What are you doing saying that?
[11:35]My kids were like, oh, what's wrong with these brownies?
[11:38]And I'm like, you're like, nothing.
[11:40]I'm like, great.
[11:41]You got some extra healthy fat in there.
[11:43]I don't know.
[11:44]They were terrible.
[11:45]I do know.
[11:45]Some substitutions do not work.
[11:47]But like you, I probably the urge to bake does not come
[11:51]with a lot of forethought.
[11:52]It's just like, let's do it right now
[11:53]with whatever we have.
[11:54]So yeah.
[11:56]And that's as exacerbated
[11:57]the pandemic.
[11:58]I'm not going to the grocery store.
[12:00]So what does this make do with this rancid butter
[12:02]that I just found?
[12:03]Yeah, totally.
[12:04]We'll just wait for the next delivery.
[12:06]Exactly.
[12:07]Rest your eggs in a few days.
[12:09]Wow.
[12:09]Well, OK, so fine.
[12:10]You do not have to bake all these things now.
[12:12]I take a thank.
[12:13]No problem.
[12:15]Well, what was it like writing this book?
[12:16]Because your, first of all, the words,
[12:19]and I dug your all these different sections
[12:22]just to show how great you are at even just describing
[12:26]things.
[12:27]Let me find any of my, oh, gosh, when you, OK,
[12:30]so when you were talking about the heart
[12:31]break with Annaliese and Max at the very beginning of the book,
[12:35]you talk.
[12:35]So this is just a scene where in a teenage love,
[12:39]a guy decides he doesn't love someone, right?
[12:41]This is like not that big deal.
[12:43]And yet you write it in such a way.
[12:46]Let me read a couple of lines.
[12:47]Two days ago, she was a perfect composition
[12:49]of face and limbs and breath and heart.
[12:51]Now she's ragged all lumpy, mismatched, stitched together
[12:55]and stuffed with old cloth.
[12:56]And then she keeps going.
[12:58]And you say, this moment is nothing really.
[13:00]So basically, she wanted to touch his hand
[13:03]and he kind of pulled it away.
[13:04]This moment is nothing really.
[13:06]Her heart will mend.
[13:07]Even as she can practically feel it cracking,
[13:09]she has an inkling that it will eventually
[13:10]glue itself back together.
[13:12]Maybe it's even starting right now, the delicate process
[13:14]of repair.
[13:15]This is not a devastation like the ones that will follow.
[13:17]Nothing like those great gasping winged monsters
[13:21]and ruin that will come later.
[13:22]The ones that will try to pick her up in their claws
[13:25]and fling her to her death.
[13:27]It's nothing like those, obviously.
[13:28]But still, years from now, in another country
[13:31]with her handsome husband, this life irrevocably left
[13:34]behind her, she will remember it.
[13:36]The smell of coffee beans and cigarette smoke,
[13:39]the clink of dishes and the laughter drifting over
[13:41]from other tables, the sudden rearrangement
[13:43]of their relationship reflected in Max's face.
[13:46]Ah, so good.
[13:48]Thanks.
[13:50]Let me find one from later.
[13:51]That was funny about the polar bears, by the way.
[13:53]My daughter has a fascination with polar bears.
[13:56]Oh, I like when you said this is much later,
[13:58]but you said, how could you know the heart of your beloved
[14:00]before you married him?
[14:02]Courtship was a confection.
[14:03]I love that line.
[14:04]Courtship was a confection.
[14:06]Crisis brought out the best in people or the very worst.
[14:09]And then you went on to say more, but what a line.
[14:11]I mean, all of these lines, it's funny,
[14:14]when I pick up a book from Kannoff,
[14:15]I know that it's going to be beautiful, right?
[14:18]Like I know, like it's going to be
[14:20]literally beautiful.
[14:21]And I'm going to like cling to every description of a detail.
[14:24]But this was like, just so great.
[14:26]Thank you.
[14:27]Anyway, so tell me more about your writing.
[14:29]I keep looking because I kind of want to read another passage,
[14:32]but I can't decide.
[14:33]And now I just want to sit here and have you read to me
[14:35]from my book.
[14:35]This is weird.
[14:37]I'm sorry, that was fun.
[14:40]Oh, I love this too.
[14:41]Let me just read this one passage.
[14:42]This is also about so interesting as we talk about like men
[14:46]needing to be strong emotionally.
[14:48]And this whole man-up thing that people
[14:51]are finally rising up against, essentially.
[14:54]But this was like owed to the tenderhearted man,
[14:57]which is great as I have some of those in my life.
[15:00]You wrote Julius knows he has tenderhearted.
[15:02]He comes from a long line of tenderhearted men,
[15:04]fathers who cry when they hold their babies for the first time,
[15:07]who tiptoe into darkened bedrooms just
[15:09]to touch the soft cheeks of their sleeping children.
[15:11]Husbands who at times are filled with so much lighthearted
[15:14]gratitude and affection for their tired and faithful wives
[15:17]that they will, without suppression or regret,
[15:19]pull those surprised wives into their arms
[15:21]and hold them for a moment.
[15:22]Stearness is not in his nature.
[15:24]Discipline is not his forte.
[15:26]He has never tried to be something.
[15:27]He is not beautiful.
[15:29]I mean, you know everything about this man now.
[15:32]It's just like, it's great.
[15:33]That was easy for me.
[15:35]That was easy because I come from a long line of just
[15:37]that kind of man, my grandpa, my dad, just like,
[15:40]really unusual men, I think, of that era,
[15:43]just so soft and lovely, so amazing.
[15:47]So tell me about writing and you're learning to write like this
[15:51]and you're writing of this particular book
[15:53]and just how you craft your sentences and all of that.
[15:57]So funny because I think about this question,
[15:59]while I'm writing, of course, every writer is like,
[16:01]how will I capture this in the interview that is yet to come?
[16:05]I don't, so I think about this all the time.
[16:08]And then also I have no idea.
[16:10]Like there's some weird alchemy that happens.
[16:13]I mean, it's not like it's not like it isn't a ton of work
[16:16]and like laborious crafting,
[16:18]but there's also just sort of this like,
[16:21]if the only time in my life when like time goes by
[16:23]and I don't notice it is when I'm writing, you know?
[16:25]So it's like a weird thing to try to describe the process
[16:28]of writing, which I'm sure you know.
[16:30]But also, I mean, this story has been living with me
[16:32]for, you know, over two decades.
[16:35]So I really just gave myself permission
[16:38]and also just was so in the moment of this story,
[16:43]like more so than, this is my fourth novel,
[16:45]but more so than any of the previous three.
[16:47]I was just so immersed in it.
[16:48]And I, so I don't know.
[16:50]The first version of this, of this novel was,
[16:53]as we said, a memoir.
[16:54]And I really, it was composed of lots of really,
[16:58]really short scenes, some of which were like half a page long.
[17:02]And I really gave myself permission
[17:03]to sort of try to craft the sentences.
[17:06]I spent a long time on the sentence level part of the story.
[17:10]And that carried over to the novel.
[17:12]I just really gave my last three novels are much,
[17:15]when I wouldn't say they're lighter
[17:16]because the last one I wrote is about a woman
[17:18]and her, the death of her best friend.
[17:21]So it's not like the subjects were lighter.
[17:22]And I just, my writing style was like a little more contemporary
[17:26]and light.
[17:27]And so this one, I just really allowed myself
[17:30]to write it the way I wanted to write it
[17:32]and craft the sentences with as much time.
[17:34]It took me, which I, my last book came out six years ago,
[17:37]it took me a long time to write this book.
[17:39]So I don't know if I can describe it any.
[17:41]I don't know if I can, you know, on a more granular level
[17:44]because in some ways it's just a distant memory.
[17:48]That's okay.
[17:50]Well, where did you like to write?
[17:51]And did you outline it?
[17:53]How did, like how did you structure the story?
[17:55]I always outline because it gives me this sort of like
[17:57]probably false confidence.
[17:59]But I feel like if I outline of the plot,
[18:01]then at least I know step by step where I'm going.
[18:03]I'm free to change it.
[18:05]But at least I have a map.
[18:06]Is that, I found the first part of the question.
[18:09]And also like where did you do?
[18:10]Were you at where you are right now?
[18:12]Like at the desk or were you?
[18:13]Yeah, exactly, right here at the desk.
[18:16]And also just kind of back in the days
[18:19]when my kids were in school,
[18:21]not upstairs in their bedrooms in school.
[18:23]I mean, I had the house to myself from, you know,
[18:25]AAM to 3PM.
[18:26]So that was my writing time.
[18:28]And so I could just walk around.
[18:30]I mean, my floors are very clean
[18:31]because I would just sort of swiffer and think.
[18:34]Just wander around the house, you know, pace and walk and think.
[18:38]But this right here is where a slightly messier version
[18:42]of what you see is where I write.
[18:43]Swiffer as ultimate writing aid.
[18:45]I like that.
[18:46]Oh, to the Swiffer.
[18:49]Okay, I say coming next.
[18:52]How old are your kids?
[18:53]They're 18 and 13.
[18:55]So they're all grown up now kind of.
[18:57]Kind of.
[18:58]Kind of.
[18:59]I have a 13-year-old upstairs and two other ones
[19:01]working, you know, also in school.
[19:03]So I get it.
[19:04]Yeah, that's really fun.
[19:05]Yeah, really fun.
[19:06]I mean, they're old enough to do it on their own,
[19:10]but it still sucks.
[19:12]Yes.
[19:13]And are you working on anything else now?
[19:15]Just just swiff right now.
[19:18]I am not working on anything else right now.
[19:20]I feel like somebody said writing in the,
[19:22]I think it was Rick Moody who said writing a novel
[19:24]of like burning down your house.
[19:25]And you have to rebuild from the ground up.
[19:27]And I don't know.
[19:28]I have a couple of ideas like tumbleweed floating around
[19:31]in my brain, but right now, not much else.
[19:33]That's like, this one was such an exorcism for me.
[19:35]Like really, I mean, because it's my family story
[19:38]and because I sat with it and it lived in my head
[19:41]and my heart for so long, it's just,
[19:43]it's really weird right now to feel like
[19:44]what's after this, I have no idea.
[19:47]That's okay.
[19:48]I mean, so what did your family think about this book?
[19:52]Because it's in part like your whole family story.
[19:55]Yeah, my brothers just reading it now.
[19:57]And it's just been radio silence on the other end.
[20:00]So I'm eager to hear what he has to say about my mom has read it
[20:03]like three or four times and she'll be like,
[20:04]oh honey, I'm reading it again and crying again.
[20:06]Like she's, you know, she's, she's, you know,
[20:09]my parents are just like, oh, what a great job you did
[20:12]tying your shoe.
[20:13]Like they would just support me no matter what.
[20:15]So my mom is, I think I haven't,
[20:17]my mom and I talk all the time,
[20:19]but not so much about this.
[20:21]I think she feels really pleased
[20:24]that I've taken on this project.
[20:26]I think she feels like our family story has been honored
[20:29]in a way by the writing of this novel.
[20:31]I hope she feels that way.
[20:32]Well, it's true.
[20:33]It has.
[20:34]I mean, all these lost stories
[20:37]and time is going by.
[20:38]I mean, what's great about this book,
[20:40]and I read a lot of Holocaust era stuff.
[20:44]Like I love, you know, I'm just as most Jewish people do
[20:48]are and also just readers in general.
[20:50]Like I find this time period, you know, very,
[20:53]I'm drawn to it and I keep trying to understand it
[20:56]and I never will, right?
[20:58]I just, you know, I'm like, how, well,
[21:00]it must be different.
[21:01]They must have felt different.
[21:02]And the thing about this book is,
[21:05]you're like, no, no, no, nobody felt different at all.
[21:08]Like it was just like as if we were there.
[21:10]And you write about it like, you know, even little things.
[21:14]Like the objects, there's one part of this book
[21:16]where, where Analys is mourning feeling guilty about it,
[21:19]but even mourning like her chandelier or something like that
[21:22]or like how can she be so, you know,
[21:24]when so much has been lost,
[21:26]how can she mourn the beautiful things
[21:27]that she used to have in her life
[21:28]or a special carpet or anything?
[21:31]And it's like her life before was very much like,
[21:35]you know, lives today.
[21:36]I mean, like all the details you had.
[21:38]And I think that's one of the things I found
[21:40]that said this book apart is like the detail,
[21:44]the like, you know, you're crawling on your knees
[21:46]feeling the carpet fibers type of detail versus, you know,
[21:50]life was fine when I watch back and forth to the bakery.
[21:53]I mean, that doesn't sound right.
[21:54]I mean, I've read a million great other books.
[21:56]I'm not trying to say anything.
[21:58]There was just something about how real it felt
[22:01]and how it could so easily be right here, right now, you know?
[22:05]Yeah.
[22:06]I mean, I'm thinking a couple things that they're saying
[22:08]that one is I came back to this book
[22:10]when it came to light that families were being separated
[22:13]at the border and that children were being put in cages.
[22:15]And I was like, oh, this is still so relevant.
[22:17]Like how is this still so relevant?
[22:19]But, you know, I think the fact that it's such recent history
[22:23]and we're still trying to, it's a futile attempt
[22:25]to try to figure it out but that's what this book is
[22:27]and attempt to sort of, you know, process it.
[22:29]It's still, I mean, the past is still with us,
[22:32]hasn't gone away and this recent past,
[22:34]I thought a lot about those like physical details
[22:37]because, you know, our lives are made up of those
[22:40]like domestic moments, you know, like the, you know,
[22:43]the lines of the vacuum cleaner as you vacuum your rugs
[22:46]and the, you know, the beautiful lamp that you have
[22:49]that has, you know, a crack down the middle
[22:51]or, you know, our lives are made up
[22:52]so much of those physical details
[22:54]and those really weren't any different.
[22:56]I think about that I did so much research on this time period
[22:59]and really what it comes down to is,
[23:01]it was just our lives without the technology, you know?
[23:04]Yeah, I mean, I think about even the ashtray
[23:06]with the two dogs with their backs and oh my gosh.
[23:09]Like, I feel like now I've seen that, right?
[23:12]Like, I would be like, if I saw it in a story,
[23:14]be like, oh, that's that one.
[23:15]Yeah, that's the one.
[23:16]Yeah, that's the one.
[23:17]Somebody said fiction writers aren't any more insightful
[23:20]than anyone else.
[23:21]They're just, you know, really good at observing
[23:23]and I actually feel that way.
[23:24]I'm just like, just, I'm just looking at stuff
[23:26]and seeing weird things.
[23:29]So that's my writing process.
[23:31]But there's also this like inherited trauma
[23:34]which people talk about and which, you know,
[23:36]comes obviously from not just Holocaust era,
[23:39]survival stories, but from many ways
[23:42]that people have had family members go through things
[23:45]or pass things down and it's like,
[23:47]when there's something around you,
[23:50]even if it's not spoken about,
[23:51]what does that do to future generations?
[23:53]So even the fact that Annalisa's granddaughter Claire
[23:57]goes through, you know, this whole moment
[24:00]where she's going to weddings and feeling left out
[24:02]and wishing how do you find the love of your life
[24:05]and all of that.
[24:06]Maybe there's something to the heaviness
[24:09]that she doesn't even realize she has
[24:11]that she's carrying around with her
[24:13]and that's informing everything.
[24:14]What do you think?
[24:15]I think absolutely.
[24:16]And I think that was the, like I was reluctant
[24:20]to write the present day character
[24:22]because it almost felt weirdly,
[24:24]like it almost felt too easy.
[24:25]That part, you know, the inherited trauma,
[24:27]like I feel that, you know, that,
[24:29]and it's kind of hard to describe
[24:31]because it's so much like in the air you breathe
[24:34]when you inherit this kind of history.
[24:36]So I'm just going to pivot and talk about my personal life
[24:39]because so much of me is in Claire,
[24:41]but you know, I'm like super close to my mom
[24:43]and very strongly feel this obligation
[24:45]to kind of take care of her in a way
[24:47]just to sort of, you know, I used to joke
[24:50]when I was in my 20s that all I wanted to do
[24:51]was move back to Milwaukee, have a couple of babies
[24:53]and just hand them straight over to her.
[24:55]But of course I wasn't joking
[24:57]and that is what I did, you know,
[24:58]like there's sort of a feeling when you inherit
[25:00]this kind of rupture that you want to write a new story
[25:05]of your own, you know?
[25:06]And there's the, and I tried to piece this together
[25:10]for years, like what part of my sort of psychological makeup
[25:15]is whatever, what part is just me
[25:17]and what part is, you know, what I was given.
[25:21]I mean, in some ways it's the same for everybody,
[25:22]like what's the difference between who you are
[25:24]and like who your family is and what they gave you.
[25:26]And I think, you know, maybe that's just intensified
[25:29]for people who inherit a particularly difficult history.
[25:31]But I wondered it for years, like was I just depressed
[25:35]or was I feeling this sort of like familial generational trauma?
[25:38]I mean, I guess it can be both.
[25:40]I don't, I still don't really know.
[25:41]I just think the question is really interesting.
[25:43]You too.
[25:45]I feel like it's hard to get around.
[25:47]I mean, it's in there.
[25:48]You know, it's just hard to sift out
[25:50]if we use our baker's analogy.
[25:52]That's where that little flower thing, right?
[25:56]Anyway, that's as close as I'm getting to baking today.
[25:59]Thankfully, yeah.
[26:01]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[26:03]Sure.
[26:04]I told us to, whenever I'm asked that question,
[26:06]I have the same answer and I say it to myself all the time,
[26:09]look up from your phone, you know,
[26:11]look around, pay attention.
[26:13]I mean, I'm always head down looking at my phone too,
[26:15]like we all are, but I often wonder what
[26:17]the next generation of writing is going to look like.
[26:20]Cause I feel like the most important thing to do
[26:21]is to pay attention to the world
[26:23]and just be really just wide open to it,
[26:24]eyes and ears and all senses.
[26:27]So just look up, pay attention.
[26:30]And, you know, like this book has been a part of me
[26:32]for over two decades.
[26:33]There's no, like it's a marathon, not a sprint.
[26:36]So just, you know, work as much as you can.
[26:41]I don't write every day.
[26:43]I haven't, you know, I would love to say that I do,
[26:46]but I can't and I don't.
[26:47]But just as much as possible, you know,
[26:49]put your butt in the chair and just,
[26:51]even if it's terrible, I mean, often it is,
[26:54]but the, you know, the writing process is not,
[26:56]it's not supposed to be easy.
[26:58]It's supposed to be work and you have to do it every day.
[27:00]Oh, well, you don't have to do it every day,
[27:01]but you have to do it as much as you can.
[27:03]I'll get advice very, and read and read.
[27:06]So much, I've heard people say like,
[27:08]I'm a writer, but I don't like to read.
[27:09]Like you can't, you have to read.
[27:11]You have to be a part of the conversation
[27:13]with other writers and other readers.
[27:15]Like that's like my favorite.
[27:16]I feel like I'll take like an hour during the day
[27:18]and just read it.
[27:19]I thought, it's my job.
[27:19]I have to.
[27:20]As you well know, I do that too, I'm the same way.
[27:23]Like, oh, yeah, sorry, I'm just gonna, you know,
[27:26]it's been here and that's work, yes, work.
[27:29]Do you have a genre you like the best?
[27:31]So right now, I'm reading a lot of historical fiction
[27:33]just because that's sort of the conversation,
[27:34]those are the conversations I've been having.
[27:36]And I was never, you know, particularly drawn to it
[27:39]before, but I'm loving it now.
[27:41]But just content, I mean, I love contemporary fiction.
[27:43]I don't, I'm so Catholic in my taste.
[27:46]I've like one book in my office, one book in the living room
[27:48]and one book upstairs.
[27:50]So I mean, I'll just read sort of wherever I am
[27:52]and whatever is, whatever is good.
[27:54]I'm the same way.
[27:55]I mean, I know you are.
[27:56]I mean, I've made this, I mean, I've now made this
[27:58]into like my work or whatever,
[28:01]but I've been like this forever, right?
[28:03]There's always a book.
[28:03]Yeah, I don't know.
[28:04]It's very comforting to know that like no matter
[28:06]where you are in your own life,
[28:07]you can escape into someone else's in a moment's notice.
[28:10]Completely.
[28:10]And you'll never be bored and like you can, you know,
[28:14]bored lonely and everything else out.
[28:15]Yeah, yeah.
[28:16]So I know it's a secret.
[28:17]I don't understand why everybody doesn't,
[28:20]you'll, you never bored or lonely.
[28:21]Like what does everybody know that?
[28:23]I know.
[28:24]My kids are like, oh, I don't like to read.
[28:26]I know.
[28:27]I don't know.
[28:28]I asked her a rebellion.
[28:29]My son, he was like six and is obsessed with the iPad
[28:32]because obviously with COVID, right, you know,
[28:35]that's what happens.
[28:36]And I'm like, you know, you used to like to read last year.
[28:40]And he's like, yeah, but it's not as entertaining.
[28:43]And it kind of broke my heart because I'm like,
[28:45]how can I graphic?
[28:47]No, I'll even compete with like the bells and whistles
[28:51]of his video games.
[28:51]But anyway, just pretend you don't care.
[28:54]Just act like that's fine.
[28:55]Well, maybe I should read.
[28:57]Yeah.
[28:58]Well, no, you know, I do restrict the time somewhat.
[29:01]So I'm hoping that I don't know.
[29:03]I don't know.
[29:03]I don't know about you.
[29:04]I've never wanted to force reading on my kids
[29:06]because I don't seem like one of those things that,
[29:09]so I never want to be like, now you have to read,
[29:11]but maybe I'm wrong.
[29:12]I don't know.
[29:13]No, I don't either.
[29:13]I mean, how can you?
[29:15]My kids are like, but they don't do anything.
[29:17]I say anyway, so that wouldn't go over.
[29:21]Good point.
[29:22]Good point, very good point.
[29:23]OK.
[29:24]Well, Lauren, it was great chatting with you.
[29:25]Congratulations on this beautiful novel.
[29:28]And I'm really excited for you.
[29:29]And I'm excited.
[29:30]I hope it finds a home with lots of people
[29:33]because it is quite different.
[29:34]I feel than the widely written about time period.
[29:38]I feel like this book is different.
[29:41]It really stands apart.
[29:42]So I hope people delve into it.
[29:44]And thank you, lovely woman.
[29:46]Thank you so much.
[29:47]OK.
[29:47]All right, we'll have a great day.
[29:48]Thanks, you too.
[29:49]Bye, Lauren.
[29:50]Bye.
[29:52]Today's episode has been sponsored by This Is Everything,
[29:55]the podcast by Ali Levine.
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[30:18]Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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