Elin Hilderbrand, TROUBLES IN PARADISE

2021-02-04 · 35:02 · Elin Hilderbrand · Podcast Audio

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[3:19]Today's episode has been sponsored by author Joe Piazza's new podcast Under the Influence.

[3:26]Under the Influence is a deep dive into the mom internet, a place haunted by aspirational marketing

[3:31]where it feels like every other moms is social media influencer trying to sell you something

[3:36]all while posed in white kitchens that never seem to get messy with toddlers and cloth diapers

[3:40]that never ever leak, a bastion of carefully curated lives that are hashtag blessed. And behind

[3:46]this airbrushed perfection is money. So much money, billions and billions of dollars, a multi-billion

[3:51]dollar industry we never talk about. Journalists and mom of two Joe Piazza brings a keen

[3:57]reporter's lens to examine how we got here. What it all means and how the commodification of

[4:01]motherhood is driving normal mothers to the brink. And through adults, she wonders if she should just

[4:07]join the ochre huge ranks of the moms to grammars, if she too can make thousands of dollars off

[4:12]beautiful photos of bath time, frolicking in fields of purple flowers and posing her newborn next to

[4:18]a beautiful latte. And if this is the future of content, check it out. Joe Piazza's Under the Influence.

[4:25]Ellen Hildebrand is a best-selling author of 26 novels, including 28 summers and the Paradise

[4:32]series. The latest book, Troubles in Paradise, is what we're talking about today. And she has a

[4:38]new book coming out called Golden Girl. She is a six-year breast cancer survivor and currently lives

[4:43]on Nantucket. Welcome, Ellen. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books.

[4:47]Oh, thank you to be. Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure. I know that you and I have

[4:53]been conversing on Instagram about various different crazy things that are happening in life.

[4:57]Plus, of course, you have all of your own books to discuss as well. So I don't know, we have so

[5:01]much to talk about. I don't even know where to start. Why don't we talk first about Troubles in Paradise,

[5:07]which is your most recent book and the Last of a Trilogy, which starts off with like amazing gossip.

[5:13]We can sort of segue into talking about gossip from there. Okay, perfect. So, you know, I can't say

[5:19]too, too much about Troubles in Paradise, because it is a book three. Just a little history as to

[5:24]how I came to write the Paradise series is that back in 2013, my publisher, Michelle, called,

[5:31]instead, we've had a book fall off our holiday list. Can you write a Christmas book in four weeks?

[5:37]And I was writing a novel called The Matchmaker, which was like very emotionally draining. And I

[5:42]said, you know what? I'm not going to stop this and write a Christmas book, but I'll do it when I finish.

[5:47]So I came up with an idea for Christmas trilogy. And I know this sounds like I'm talking about

[5:53]something else, but I am getting to Paradise. So it's okay. Yeah. So I came up with this idea for

[5:58]Christmas trilogy and it turned out they didn't want a trilogy. They only wanted one book. So I

[6:04]wrote this novel, Winter Street, and gave it no ending and immediately a contract for the next two

[6:11]books appeared because they really they loved the premise. And then ironically, in the summer of 2016,

[6:16]my editor called and said, what do I have to do to get you to write a fourth book in the

[6:20]Winter Street series? And at that point, Zibi, I was finished. Like I didn't want to write a

[6:25]fourth book in the Winter Street series. So they really had to be persuasive. And I said to them,

[6:30]I'd really like to write a novel or a series of novels that are set in the Virgin Islands,

[6:36]because that was the place where I had sort of styled a self, you know, a writing retreat

[6:42]and time for myself in the Virgin Islands. And I felt fallen in love with it. And I feel like,

[6:48]again, like, oh, shut was a little bit hesitant. They didn't necessarily want, you know,

[6:53]because I was a nantucket author. They didn't necessarily want a series set in the Virgin Islands.

[6:59]But they very desperately wanted this fourth winter street book. So they said yes. And then,

[7:05]you know, again, irony is that the Paradise series has far, far, far outsold the Winter

[7:11]Street series and has sort of taken me to a new location. And so it's been very successful. So I

[7:16]was right. Like I felt vindicated. Like I was right. And the Paradise series book one focuses

[7:22]on a woman in her mid 50s named Irene Steele, whose husband on New Year's Day, she gets a call

[7:29]that her husband has been killed in a helicopter crash in the Virgin Islands. Hello, she didn't

[7:34]know he was in the Virgin Islands. She's completely gobsmacked. She and her two adult sons fly down

[7:39]there only to find guess what this dude has a second life, including a mistress and a child.

[7:45]And then it's like, well, what else was going on? And so that sort of takes us through

[7:50]to book three where I'm trying to tie up all of the mysterious loose ends in a way that is satisfying

[7:58]and surprising. So that is where we are. Awesome. And it's so funny because in the beginning of

[8:04]book three, you open it up and you talk directly to the reader and you're like, no, no, no,

[8:08]this is book three. So just like put this down and go back to the beginning and read the

[8:13]it's like, okay, I'm very concerned. I mean, I think I feel like some people may be like,

[8:20]oh, just be optimistic. And if they buy it accidentally, oh, well, I am not that person. I am the

[8:25]person who is like, I would like them to have a pleasant reading experience where they're reading

[8:30]book one, book two and book three where it's very clear like where they are. I mean, I know that

[8:34]people have rent book three first, which just gives me. I just honestly makes me upset.

[8:39]That's so funny. And you have another book coming out soon. And you've been like posting about

[8:45]that one. That's exciting and coming out in June. Yes. I have a book out in June called Golden

[8:49]Girl, which is my summer novel. And from here on out, like I was doing two weeks a year and it has

[8:55]been extremely stressful for the last seven years. And so I'm going back with Golden Girl,

[9:00]just one book every summer. That is my new jam. And I'm, I don't know what I'm going to do with

[9:05]all my extra time, but I mean, I'll find something. How did you even get into this? Like, how

[9:11]did you become who you are today? When did you start writing so much and at this rapid pace? And

[9:17]how did this whole thing happen? Let's see. How did this whole thing happen? So it's of course

[9:20]a longer story. So I went to Johns Hopkins undergrad. I was writing seminars major. A lot of

[9:25]people don't think of popkins as like a place where writers are born. However, they do have a

[9:30]dedicated creative writing major. So like every week, I would go to workshop. And I had Steve

[9:35]Dixon, Madison Smart Bell, John Barth, like really like great writers guiding me. And when I

[9:41]graduated, I knew I wanted to be a writer. I went and I sat with Madison Bell and I said,

[9:46]you know, what do I do? Do I go to graduate school? Do I get a job? And he said, you know,

[9:50]you have to go out in the world and live. Ellen, you have to have experiences through 22.

[9:55]And so I moved to New York City. I lived on the Upper East Side. I

[10:00]worked in publishing and I hated it.

[10:04]I thought because I wanted to be a writer for some reason that publishing would be my thing.

[10:08]No, I hated it and I needed a job where I would have time.

[10:13]So I started teaching and I taught first in the New York City Public Schools and I asked

[10:19]to 27 in Queens and then I got a better job teaching in Westchester County out of the city

[10:25]now we can move backwards. And the summer between those two school years I wanted to get

[10:30]out of the city for the summer and so I decided I would go to Nantucket. My family I had grown up

[10:35]going to Cape Cod in the summers with my family and I had been to the vineyard in college and

[10:40]I just felt like Nantucket was like the natural third point on the triangle. So I got a room in a

[10:45]house, fell madly in love with the island and then after my second year of teaching I moved back

[10:50]to Nantucket and I'm like I'm gonna live in Nantucket and I traveled in the off season so like

[10:55]I would work in that during the summer season and then travel and eventually after I felt like I had

[11:00]gone out and lived I applied to the University of Iowa for graduate school and ended up getting

[11:06]in there more effortlessly and went to Iowa and was totally miserable. It's a very intense place,

[11:14]there's a lot of competition. I was just very unhappy. I was away from that ocean. I was like

[11:19]out in Iowa City. It was bad. And one of the ways that I made myself feel better is I started

[11:25]writing a novel that was set on Nantucket and that was the beach club and then in my final workshop

[11:30]at Iowa my professor had his agent come and his agent said which one of these lives on Nantucket?

[11:36]I said oh that's me and it was sort of like a small world coincidence and he said stay in

[11:41]see me after class which I wasn't even gonna do because I had my U-Haul pack I was ready to go

[11:45]but I decided to and thank goodness because Michael has been my agent for 21 or 22 years now

[11:51]and so I told him I was working on a book set on Nantucket called the Beach Club. He said when

[11:56]you're finished with it send it to me which I did and it's like at that point 1999 so like I'm

[12:01]printing out the novel sticking in in a box and taking it to the post office and he read it and he

[12:06]said you know I'd like to represent you and I'm gonna make you lots and lots of money so who doesn't

[12:10]want to hear that right this is the greatest word ever and he sends the book out and it gets rejected

[12:16]everywhere finally like five months later he calls and says he has an offer of $5,000 and I'm like

[12:24]is $5,000 a lot of money because I can't quit my job but since it was the only offer that we had

[12:29]we took it and the Beach Club was published in the summer of 2000 and two weeks after it came out

[12:36]it was people magazines book of the week and immediately my publisher ran a copy this was my first

[12:42]publisher who I think will remain nameless during this interview I'm not sure and I was frustrated but

[12:47]you know they because they were without a book for three weeks and this is in 2000 so it's not like

[12:52]you can't download it on your Kindle and you cannot watch it you know read it on your iPhone

[12:56]and those copies have to be in the stores and it's sold pretty well and I ended up with a

[13:01]two-book deal and those books did less well and then I got another two-book deal and those books

[13:07]did even worse and I got my own publicist for book five like a private publicist that I paid for

[13:13]myself and she did an excellent job and again I got the people magazine with the picture it was

[13:19]like book of the week and four stars and I was so excited and again the publisher ran out of

[13:24]books and I was super frustrated at that point and my agent same agent said I think we need to

[13:30]switch publishers I was like had Stockholm syndrome and was in love with my captor and I'm like

[13:37]I will not switch publishers but he persuaded me and I went and had what I call my Cinderella day in

[13:42]New York and met with ten publishers and ended up settling or deciding on Little Brown and Little

[13:48]Brown has turned my last 20-21 books into New York Times bestsellers and they did that gradually

[13:55]to be I mean I didn't write crawdads like I didn't go right to number one the first book I had

[14:01]that hit number one was summer of 69 and it was my 23rd novel and so it was like an incremental

[14:08]climb and a gathering of readers and it was a very careful thoughtful process to get to the

[14:18]wow that is an amazing story I love that that's amazing and just that you kept persisting

[14:25]through and just kept doing what you do I mean that's like the greatest part right like you had

[14:30]confidence in what you are producing and you just had to wait till everybody cut out for you

[14:34]yeah and I don't think I understood the book business I didn't like the first five books or

[14:39]but also publishing was changing too and I can remember my second book with Little Brown was this

[14:46]called the summer affair and I had a marketing person named Miriam Parker who's now she's an

[14:53]echo she's a brilliant woman at that time she's like we're gonna go to all these blogs and we're

[14:59]gonna get all these blogs and I'm thinking to myself I don't even know what a blog is why are we

[15:03]doing this like why is this where we're putting our resources and because you know she was a visionary

[15:08]and it was 2000 and they came out in the summer of 2008 and that was the thing to do so they were

[15:14]very systematic and careful about how they still are about how they do their marketing and how

[15:19]they get more readers and they're so impressive so I'm very lucky that's great that's really

[15:24]awesome and I know that reader response and how people accept or embrace your book is something

[15:32]that's been really important to you of all these like devoted fans and everything else and then

[15:37]when we were talking about what's talking communicating about the recent situation with Jane

[15:42]Rosenspick on Instagram about how a moms group turned against her and ended up banning her from

[15:48]the group and canceling her book event you were up in arms about it and I just wanted to talk to

[15:54]you a little about that okay so I've only gotten to that I'm in like page 40 of James book which

[16:00]I'm so enjoying I am so enjoying and I have to say like my appetite was really wedded by the fact

[16:08]that this group canceled her because and I can't figure out because I'm not sure if it comes

[16:12]back up but I've gotten to the part where like the uppery side group is mentioned and I'm like was

[16:17]this what if that's it that's the whole thing that was it that's the whole thing is like on page 39

[16:23]and 40 and and the whole rest of all has a search rumor has nothing else to do with uppery said mom

[16:29]okay that that cracks me up and I just feel like wouldn't you be excited or laugh because it

[16:36]was very tongue-in-cheek I thought and I'd be interested to know if I actually know anyone

[16:42]I mean you live in New York right Divi you may know somebody in that group I mean I live on

[16:46]Nantucket I'm you know somebody in that group but I just feel like you know it just felt so it

[16:52]felt so over not necessary for them to decide to cancel the book based especially now that I

[16:58]know what you're talking about I thought maybe there was more later in the book that was really

[17:02]scandalous yeah I mean it's tough and also it's fiction so she Jane very skillfully sort of

[17:08]picks up the essence of things and I'm really really enjoying her book I'm also going to post

[17:13]about it and I may can't decide mention this scandal because I think he will encourage other

[17:22]people to want to read it to because people always sort of like things that are attached to real

[17:27]life which makes no sense because we are in the business of writing fiction but as if it has like

[17:31]a real life scandal attached so much the better and I predict big things for Jane but I'm really

[17:37]really enjoying the book oh good yeah well come to our event we're doing an event well I can talk

[17:41]to you about this later but I'm gonna do an event with her coming up too but anyway back to your

[17:46]book you said all that but I actually thought I mean you open up troubles and paradise with a whole

[17:51]gorgeous description of like the juiciness of gossip right and like how it's like you know

[17:58]it's like a mango or you debated which fruit to pick and all the rest and there is something just

[18:03]so irresistible about like small town gossip or even big town gossip right New York City which

[18:10]really in different neighborhoods is just as much a small town is probably an antique way wherever

[18:14]you go so what do you think how do you use gossip and in fiction and in your work in particular

[18:20]to sort of keep the entry going no totally so I wrote a novel and what year did it come out 2015

[18:27]called the rumor and my purpose with the rumor I had been to where there was a lot of gossip going

[18:33]on on Nantucket there's always there's always gossip oh my god I mean I've went to 26 years

[18:38]I've heard it all and I decided that I was going to write a novel called the rumor and it was

[18:43]and I was going to put every single person who gossiped on Nantucket in the book this was my this

[18:49]was my goal and this is exactly in fact what I did I put everybody the gossip in the book however

[18:54]I disguised them so much because they have to fit the narrative and so I disguised everybody so

[19:01]well that I am the only person that knows who's in there no one has ever come up to me and said oh

[19:07]I was the blah blah blah in your book no one has ever said that and also you know if you're

[19:13]a villainous or whatever and you will not write you off and will not recognize yourself so

[19:19]that was very satisfying to me because I did in fact get to put all the gossipy people in

[19:25]in the novel but nobody knew it one of the things about being a mother and you know this and we all

[19:30]know this everybody listening to this knows this is that it is a very fraught group so

[19:38]the gossip like among the moms I mean it's mind blowing and it's ruthless and I have graduated

[19:48]out of it which I'm very very happy to say so my children are 21 18 and 15 and one of my senses of

[19:58]college

[20:00]her gossip is no longer an issue.

[20:01]One of my sons is at boarding school again

[20:03]because it's sort of a remote.

[20:05]I don't have to worry about any of that.

[20:07]And my daughter is 15.

[20:08]She's my third child.

[20:09]I know everybody.

[20:11]I no longer engage in any of the gossip.

[20:14]I almost feel like that is something you do more

[20:16]with like your first child

[20:17]and sometimes your second child.

[20:18]But tell me get to the third child.

[20:19]You're like, you know what?

[20:20]I am so down.

[20:21]Also with age, I feel like,

[20:23]is this piece of information important to me

[20:25]and the answer is no.

[20:26]So I just do not engage in any local man to get gossip.

[20:32]I now say that and I'll probably be embroiled

[20:35]in the scandal next week.

[20:36]But for the time, like over the last like five or six years

[20:40]since the kids have been in high school,

[20:41]it's been very, very mild.

[20:44]So it is something that I think you graduate out of.

[20:46]Well, I think the thing with moms,

[20:48]especially first time moms are just really insecure.

[20:51]I mean, gossip is the grounds of the insecure.

[20:55]Right, it's like the feeding ground.

[20:57]So when you're in a new situation,

[20:59]like trying to figure out what on earth

[21:00]you're supposed to be doing with your kids, right?

[21:02]Especially in the beginning,

[21:04]all you wanna do is compare yourself to other people

[21:07]and then somehow get that little glint

[21:10]of, you know, not that I'm speaking for myself,

[21:12]but just, you know, I've heard, right?

[21:14]Like any sort of little win that you can have,

[21:17]like, oh, well, you know, I heard her kid did XYZ

[21:20]or I don't know, there's always something to make you feel better

[21:23]when you feel so bad.

[21:24]And it's not any justification for it.

[21:27]And as you, it's not just that the kids are older,

[21:29]it's that like, you're better.

[21:31]You know what you're doing and, you know,

[21:33]that confidence that comes from surviving.

[21:35]You're not surviving.

[21:37]Right, I mean, that's the thing is that ideally,

[21:39]you're the one that has evolved.

[21:41]You are now self aware.

[21:43]You do not need to be boosted or fed by other people

[21:47]who's fortunate.

[21:49]So you just like, it's more like living.

[21:51]I mean, I think if you evolve right away,

[21:53]it's just living lovely of we can help, et cetera.

[21:56]You know, what you said in the beginning

[21:57]was also super interesting to me

[21:58]because a lot of people grow up wanting to be writers.

[22:01]And there really is something to waiting.

[22:04]That it's not of career.

[22:05]You can necessarily dive into out of college

[22:08]and like go up the ranks.

[22:10]You can go to sort of adjacent careers,

[22:12]like publishing or maybe a magazine in the old days

[22:15]or something related.

[22:18]But to just sit down and become a novelist

[22:20]without that wisdom or experience is really tricky.

[22:24]And when you're that age,

[22:25]you don't want to be told that you have to go live.

[22:27]Like that's very annoying to hear, right?

[22:30]Because you know what you want.

[22:33]I mean, let's say your kids now want to go be writers.

[22:35]Like what do you say to them?

[22:36]Like what does it mean to go live, really?

[22:39]Yeah, I mean, they have to have experiences.

[22:40]They have to travel.

[22:41]I mean, we've traveled with the kids.

[22:43]So my ex-husband and I traveled extensively

[22:45]like lived in Australia.

[22:47]I liked it a bunch of things.

[22:48]So they've been all over the place.

[22:50]They need to go out and have experiences.

[22:51]They need to have jobs.

[22:52]They need to fall in love.

[22:53]They need to have their heart broken.

[22:55]Like all of those things, you know,

[22:57]when I started Zibi, I had,

[23:00]I think I was pregnant with Max.

[23:02]It was 21 years ago.

[23:03]That's when I started writing the beach club.

[23:05]What did I know about life?

[23:06]Not one thing.

[23:08]Really?

[23:09]You know, I hadn't had children.

[23:10]I hadn't been divorced.

[23:11]I hadn't had cancer.

[23:12]Like all of the things that have happened to me

[23:14]over the 20 years that I've been doing this in theory

[23:18]should have been contributing to the richness

[23:21]and the nuance and the emotional integrity

[23:23]of the writing.

[23:24]That's the best case scenario.

[23:25]So hopefully it has, right?

[23:26]So in theory, every book gets better

[23:29]and I've also been reading

[23:32]and like one of the great things about you

[23:34]and other info book influencers like you

[23:38]is that the way we can make ourselves better,

[23:40]like the way every single woman can make themselves better

[23:43]is to read.

[23:44]I definitely believe that.

[23:46]And so all of the thousands of books

[23:48]that I've read over the last 20 years

[23:49]have all contributed also to my own work.

[23:51]So true.

[23:52]I think the value of reading is huge.

[23:55]Thank you for saying that about being in particular.

[23:57]It's so funny.

[23:58]Someone posted today like a little funny thing

[24:01]how she couldn't remember,

[24:03]she couldn't like keep up with like all the details

[24:05]of her family group chat,

[24:06]but she could remember all the details

[24:08]in like a multi-generational family saga,

[24:11]like novel that she read six years ago.

[24:13]And I feel like I can the same way.

[24:15]Like I can look around and be like,

[24:16]oh yeah, I totally remember like the characters

[24:19]in that book in the second.

[24:20]And then I'm like, you know, when it comes to my own life,

[24:22]I have these big blanks.

[24:24]Like why do I remember all this stuff about books?

[24:26]Like the weirdest thing.

[24:27]Well, we attach, you know, and we escape and we attach.

[24:31]And you know, one of the things that I hear a lot

[24:33]from my readers just because I do write a scapist fiction

[24:36]is, you know, I'll hear about the terrible terrible

[24:40]worst moments of their lives.

[24:41]They're in the chemo chair, their parents are dying.

[24:43]They're at the hospital.

[24:45]Their children have cancer like whatever.

[24:46]And they have my book and my book allows them to escape.

[24:49]And that is the most humbling experience.

[24:52]I don't need to write the great American novel.

[24:54]I have no desire to do so.

[24:57]Like what I'm doing now is so fulfilling.

[25:00]Just because I'm giving people in a lot of pain

[25:03]either physical or emotional a place to go.

[25:06]And so that I find value in that.

[25:09]There's tremendous value in that.

[25:11]Wait, tell me briefly about your whole experience

[25:14]with cancer.

[25:15]No, that's unbearable.

[25:16]I know you are a breast cancer survivor.

[25:18]I would love to know like in terms of feeding

[25:21]the richness of your work, how did going through that?

[25:25]And how did you even manage that when you're turning out

[25:27]so much fiction, like at such a rapid pace?

[25:31]Did you stop writing for a while?

[25:32]How did you handle that?

[25:34]No, so the writing was really like my was my gasoline

[25:39]because I am very disciplined anyway, but I got sick.

[25:43]And I just said to myself, OK, I'm not going to stop.

[25:46]Like I'm going to stop only when it's absolutely necessary.

[25:50]So I was diagnosed in May of 2014.

[25:56]And I had a book coming out, the matchmaker.

[25:57]I had a book coming out on June 10th.

[26:01]And so my oncologist called, she said,

[26:04]you have cancer and then you go through a lot of steps.

[26:08]As it turns out, I had to have a double mastectomy.

[26:11]And I said to her, can we just schedule it for August?

[26:14]Because I'm verbally like after all my social obligations

[26:18]because I have a book coming out and it's somewhere in Antarctica.

[26:21]And she was just like, Ellen, like reality check.

[26:25]Like no, you need to have this as soon as possible.

[26:27]So I had my book came out on a Tuesday as they do.

[26:31]And I had my book came out on Tuesday, June 10th.

[26:35]I had the double mastectomy on the 13th.

[26:38]The following, I had to cancel all these events.

[26:41]So I did a couple of events.

[26:42]And then I had to cancel a bunch of events.

[26:44]And then I said to my publicist, OK, I'm two weeks after my surgery,

[26:51]I'm going to start back and do a tour.

[26:53]And I did.

[26:54]So two weeks after 12 days, 12 days after my surgery,

[26:58]I flew to Chicago.

[26:59]And I did two events in Chicago.

[27:02]And I tell the story, sometimes I cry.

[27:05]I will recover if I cry.

[27:06]The first event was, I was on drugs.

[27:08]I don't even remember it.

[27:09]It was a straight signing, though.

[27:11]The second event was the Brown bag lunch

[27:14]at the Cook County Library.

[27:15]There were 200 women.

[27:17]There were two women up front that had one head no hair,

[27:20]one head very short hair.

[27:22]At that point, I have drains in,

[27:25]which were hidden by my dress.

[27:26]But like you have drains, which are these horrible things

[27:29]that come out your back.

[27:30]And then they collect through lymphatic fluid.

[27:32]It's too awful to talk about.

[27:33]Anyway, and I was on Oxy and very emotional.

[27:37]And everybody there knew that what I had gone through,

[27:39]had been on the news.

[27:40]I went on with Gayle King and Nora and Charlie

[27:43]on CBS this morning.

[27:45]And the women come through my line.

[27:48]And they say to me, Ellen, we've both had double mastectomies.

[27:53]Together, we've undergone 13 rounds of chemo

[27:57]and 64 rounds of radiation.

[27:59]We came today to tell you that you're going to be fine.

[28:02]And I thought to myself, OK, these women

[28:06]are far sicker than I am.

[28:08]And they showed up at my book signing.

[28:10]And they are so optimistic and so encouraging.

[28:13]And I really, at that point, felt like they

[28:16]passed me a baton, which I held on to for a while.

[28:19]Once I was recovered, and I had some bumps in the road,

[28:21]and wasn't really recovered until May of 2015.

[28:24]And then I started speaking at breast cancer events

[28:28]and telling that story.

[28:30]And the good thing, I guess, about breast cancer

[28:33]is that the demographic, it's my demographic of my readers

[28:37]as well.

[28:38]So there was a lot of opportunity for me

[28:40]to connect with people, other people who were just starting out.

[28:43]And I do it all the time on my social media.

[28:45]People will say, my sister is breast cancer.

[28:48]And she's starting chemo tomorrow.

[28:50]And I'm always reach out, always if I can, personally.

[28:56]And I've met a lot of wonderful, really wonderful,

[28:59]wonderful women that way.

[29:00]So in some sense, it was a gift, not only because of the connection

[29:05]that gave me with my readers, but also

[29:08]of the gut check with what's important.

[29:12]When you and I talked just a little while ago about the gossip,

[29:15]that seems to be important, like who cares?

[29:17]Nobody.

[29:18]And what became important is what was happening with my kids

[29:22]and the truth and my fiction.

[29:23]So Ellen, you have gone through so much

[29:26]and are such a powerhouse.

[29:29]You can just tell it in the way you speak.

[29:31]You're just like a force, you're so driven.

[29:34]And just like, it's amazing.

[29:37]Anyway, I'm so impressed.

[29:39]Were you just born this way or do you feel like at some point,

[29:43]do you feel like at some point the shifted

[29:44]or is this just your personality and everything you do?

[29:47]You know, I don't know.

[29:48]And also like, I've really, so I've always been disciplined,

[29:53]I guess.

[29:54]I mean, you know, so I do all this crazy stuff,

[29:56]like I exercise for three hours every morning.

[29:59]And I do.

[30:00]because it's a discipline that sets up my day

[30:04]and I never ever skip a day

[30:05]and like the people in my life,

[30:07]like my ex has been in my boyfriend now,

[30:09]like their lay, like really hated

[30:11]because of course it takes three hours away from my time.

[30:15]But it's a very important discipline for me

[30:18]because doing what I do, which is writing two books,

[30:21]now one bucket here, requires a laser focus

[30:24]and the time and the morning to discipline

[30:28]of doing something that nobody wants to exercise

[30:30]for three hours, nobody wants to exercise for five minutes.

[30:33]So making yourself do it is setting up a discipline

[30:37]and I've always been like that.

[30:39]And you know, the connection with the readers,

[30:42]like it's just something that I've learned over 20 years

[30:49]of just like these readers, like it's a process

[30:52]and I could be sitting in my basement

[30:54]writing for myself and it's so gratifying

[30:58]to have a back and forth with my readers

[31:01]and they feel the, I think they feel the love.

[31:05]They know that I love them very deeply.

[31:07]Wow, amazing.

[31:09]Do you have any parting advice

[31:11]for aspiring authors aside from going out and living?

[31:14]Yeah, I mean, I think it's just,

[31:16]you have to stick with it

[31:17]and that's always what I say,

[31:18]like you have to start, if you're writing a novel,

[31:21]you start at the beginning, you move through the middle,

[31:24]the middle is always tough, you know,

[31:26]there are lots of times when I do not know what's coming next.

[31:29]And it feels scary

[31:31]and that's when you put the novel on a drawer

[31:33]and you think, I guess I'll get to it later

[31:35]because I know how it ends, right?

[31:36]So everyone always knows how it starts, you know?

[31:38]And, you know, the challenge is making yourself get through it

[31:44]and moving seen by seeing and I guess in a micro sense,

[31:49]I would say for serious writers,

[31:51]you must dramatize, you must have a scene in a location

[31:55]with dialogue and characters and a conflict.

[31:58]That is the scene and my novels are one scene after another

[32:02]after another, but at least I can pinpoint them saying,

[32:04]okay, well, this is the scene at the beach restaurant

[32:07]where she drops the tray of glasses

[32:10]and everybody stops and then the owner asks if she's on drugs,

[32:13]like that, like you need to have dramatization

[32:17]and but in a larger sense, you just have to keep going

[32:20]until you get to the end.

[32:21]And then you can always go back and fix it.

[32:23]But so, so wait, Zippy, you have a book coming out.

[32:26]What is your book coming out?

[32:28]I do February 16th.

[32:30]Oh my God, I've said my anthology.

[32:31]So can we just talk about that please?

[32:33]Before we part?

[32:34]Sure.

[32:36]Yes, I'm super excited about it.

[32:38]I have 60 plus essays that authors wrote,

[32:41]mostly during the pandemic,

[32:42]so some a little bit before.

[32:45]It was gonna be like this whole website goop.

[32:47]I had this like whole idea and that did not happen.

[32:50]I ended up just posting them up on my website

[32:52]during the pandemic.

[32:53]And then afterwards, I was like, wait a minute,

[32:55]I have enough for a book.

[32:56]This is like a book, what got published.

[32:57]So then I just sold it as a book and now it's coming out.

[33:00]So that's called Mom's Don't Have Time to.

[33:03]And then is every essay a different ending to that sentence?

[33:08]No.

[33:09]So this book is five different sections.

[33:12]Mom's don't have time to eat.

[33:13]Okay, workout, read, breathe, and have sex.

[33:17]So the essays are inspired by those topics,

[33:20]but they're not specifically about them, right?

[33:22]It's like a personal essay about something.

[33:24]And then I have another one coming out in November

[33:26]where I picked five different things

[33:28]that Mom's don't have time to do.

[33:29]What a great idea.

[33:30]I mean, I have to say, I'm sort of past it now,

[33:33]but it was definitely challenging

[33:34]where like moms don't have time to write novels.

[33:37]That would be my essay.

[33:38]When you do volume of reliving,

[33:40]you can try to, if you want to be on the next one,

[33:44]not that you don't have enough to do.

[33:45]I know, but I mean, that's the thing.

[33:47]It's like mom's don't have time to do anything.

[33:51]But I love love love to make sure you send it.

[33:53]I will.

[33:54]I will absolutely send it to you.

[33:55]And thank you so much for coming on the show.

[33:57]And I love to talk to you and hope to see you in real life.

[34:00]I hope so too.

[34:01]All right, bye, Sammy.

[34:01]Thank you.

[34:02]Bye, Ellen.

[34:03]Thanks.

[34:04]Bye.

[34:05]Today's podcast has been sponsored by under the influence

[34:09]a new podcast by author Joe Piazza.

[34:12]And just a reminder, again, please pre-order a copy of my book,

[34:15]Moms Don't Have Time To, A Quarantine Anthology,

[34:18]and go to my website under the anthology tab for the fundraiser.

[34:24]And I hope you'll buy a ticket and join me for,

[34:27]and I should have mentioned, um,

[34:28]all proceeds go to COVID-19 research.

[34:31]So please join me for the fundraiser.

[34:34]Thanks so much.

[34:34]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[34:38]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zebioans,

[34:41]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[34:43]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com

[34:45]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[34:50]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.

[34:54]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music.