Maggie Downs, BRAVER THAN YOU THINK
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:53]Hi, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I have an anthology coming out called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:01]And it comes out on February 16th and has essays by 60 plus of the authors who have been on this podcast.
[1:09]So first of all, please pre-order this book. I think you will love it. I'm so excited about all the authors who are represented.
[1:16]Just to give you a few, Chris Bajillion, Jewel Parker Rhodes, Ashley Prentice Norton, Gretchen Rubin, Rima Zaman, Eileen Zimmerman, and that is just from the first page of the multi-page table of contents.
[1:30]So please pick up this book, Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:34]It's available anywhere you buy books, Amazon, bookshop.org, and your local independent bookstore.
[1:39]So please pick up a copy. And also, I want to invite you listeners to my fundraiser slash launch party,
[1:49]the night it comes out on February 16th, the Tuesday at 7 p.m., full camped in and the children's
[1:55]museum of the East End are co-hosting it for me. And 50 of the authors who wrote essays in this book,
[2:02]as well as many of the amazing authors who blurbed this book, who wrote little praise worthy quotes
[2:08]at the front, will be there. And you can be there too. So if you go to my website zibbyowens.com
[2:16]and just click on anthology and go to book tour, you will see a whole fundraiser section.
[2:21]And for $50, you can attend. You'll get a copy of the book. And you'll get to shmooze on zoom
[2:30]with all of these amazing authors. This is like going to be the literary happening of February.
[2:36]So please come. I would love to see you all in person on zoom, I guess. But even see some of your
[2:42]faces. I know so many of you are really loyal listeners and that makes me really happy.
[2:47]All proceeds of the book and the fundraiser are going to the Susan Felice Owens program for COVID-19
[2:54]vaccine research at Mount Sinai Health System. And it is named after my husband's mother
[3:01]who passed away from COVID over the summer, which many of you followed along on Instagram as I
[3:06]recounted that horrific experience. So all the proceeds are going there. The cost includes the price
[3:12]of a book. So thank you for supporting this effort. And for supporting my book, I can't wait to see
[3:18]you there. Today's episode has been sponsored by author Joe Piazza's new podcast under the
[3:25]influence. Under the influence is a deep dive into the mom internet, a place haunted by aspirational
[3:31]marketing where it feels like every other moms as social media influencer trying to sell you
[3:35]something all while posed in white kitchens that never seemed to get messy with toddlers and cloth
[3:40]diapers that never ever leak, a bastion of carefully curated lives that are hashtag blessed.
[3:45]And behind this airbrushed perfection is money so much money, billions and billions of dollars,
[3:50]a multi-billion dollar industry we never talk about. Journalist and mom of two
[3:55]Joe Piazza brings a keen reporter's lens to examine how we got here. What it all means and how
[4:00]the commodification of motherhood is driving normal mothers to the brink. And through adults,
[4:05]she wonders if she should just join the ochre huge ranks of the moms to grammars? If she too
[4:11]can make thousands of dollars off beautiful photos of bath time, frolicking and fields of purple
[4:16]flowers and posing her newborn next to a beautiful latte. And if this is the future of content,
[4:22]check it out. Joe Piazza's under the influence. Maggie Downs is an award-winning writer based in
[4:27]Palm Springs, California. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post,
[4:32]Los Angeles Times, Palm Springs Life, and McSweenies, and has been anthologized in the lonely
[4:37]planet travel anthology, true stories from the world's best writers and best women's travel writing.
[4:42]Braver than you think is her first book. Find out more at maggydowns.com.
[4:46]Welcome Maggie. Thank you so much for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books.
[4:50]To discuss braver than you think around the world on the trip of my mother's lifetime.
[4:55]Thank you so much for having me. This is a pleasure. It's my pleasure. I was starting to
[5:01]to tell you this before, but I had been so excited to read this book that I kept like trying to
[5:05]sneak into it when I had lots of other books on the horizon in the shorter term. And I'm delighted
[5:11]I finally got a chance to read the whole thing because it was really good. And I kind of feel like
[5:16]I know at least a version of you that you put forth in the book now. So thank you for sharing
[5:22]all that with your readers and with me. Well, thank you for reading it. I really, you know,
[5:25]I appreciate it. And and I'm like you. I read multiple books at the same time. And so I'm always
[5:31]like cheating on one book or another. Totally good. Now I don't know. Book cheaters and
[5:39]out of as much as I think. Why don't you tell listeners a little about what your book is about
[5:43]and what inspired you to write it? Okay. So the elevator pitch is that it's a memoir about a year
[5:49]that I spent backpacking solo around the world to complete my mom's bucket list while she was
[5:55]in the final stages of Alzheimer's. But you know, the longer version is so much more difficult.
[6:00]It starts when my mom was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. And I was so young when that
[6:07]happened. And it kind of set me into a tailspin just like reckoning with the fact that I would
[6:14]never know my mom as an adult. You know, I was I was in my early 20s when she was diagnosed. And I
[6:19]was just learning how to become a person. And I didn't know how to deal with the fact that she was
[6:24]in decline. And it happened so rapidly, you know, within a couple of years she had no idea who I was.
[6:31]So all of that, you know, of course forced me to think about my own mortality and just how I wanted
[6:37]to live my life. And I knew that there were a lot of things that my mom wanted to do with her own
[6:43]life and all these dreams and goals she had. And so when I thought about what would she do if she
[6:50]could have this time back? Like if she had the option to do it all over again, what would she do?
[6:56]I pulled on some of my memories of things she had talked about. And I kind of compiled a bucket list
[7:01]for her. And I did the things that I thought she might want to do. And so I quit my job. I sold all
[7:07]of my things. I had $10,000. And I didn't know how far that would take me. And it took me through
[7:13]South America, Africa, and then Asia before I went home again. And she, it's no spoiler that
[7:20]she dies halfway through my trip. So there was a big grieving process in the traveling. And then
[7:26]also trying to figure out how to heal from that. Wow. I loved how you interspersed all of the trips
[7:32]and all of the challenges that came from like underwear and socks that wouldn't dry at time for a hike
[7:38]and like sleeping on the floor of the airport and like all these things and getting attacked by
[7:44]monkeys. Like all sorts of like bizarre things happened. And yet on every page was something
[7:51]about your mom. I felt like like it, it permeated everything that happened to you that whole year.
[7:56]And it was like a love letter to her, the trip, the book, all of it. Like do you feel like once
[8:02]you spent all that time and emotional energies writing it, did it give you some sort of relief
[8:08]in a way or like how did you feel when you finally like had the book done and you went back to life?
[8:15]Well, you know grief is such a strange thing. And I feel like you never fully heal from it. But it
[8:20]did make me feel like like there was a way out of it. And like when I tell my friends in California
[8:27]how grief feels, I describe it like a labyrinth. But since I'm from Ohio, it's more like a corn maze.
[8:32]And it's like like I think of it personally like this scary place. And I don't know how to get out.
[8:37]And I'm just trying to navigate through it. And I felt like writing the book was one passage
[8:43]out. It was another way to get around my grief a little bit after being steeped in it for so long.
[8:50]But also I think in writing the book, I really wanted to help other people who were grappling with
[8:56]with the loss of a loved one. And especially people who their loved ones might have an extended
[9:03]illness because that process of grief and mourning them is so extended. And it happens for so long
[9:11]before they ever die. And that's really, really hard. And it was hard when my mom was diagnosed
[9:17]for me to read any book about Alzheimer's because there's no happy ending with that disease.
[9:22]You know, and I mean, it's it's an always fatal disease. So I wanted to write a book that tackled
[9:28]these topics, but also had some light and some hope in it. There's another book coming out
[9:35]in January. Well, I don't know. This might run after that, but it's by a rabbi named Steve Letter
[9:39]called Beauty. The Beauty and what remains. And his father had Alzheimer's and he had to deal with
[9:44]the 10 year journey. And it's also about grief. So I don't know. I feel like you two should team up
[9:48]yes, those two together would be like a perfect like almost like a grief bundle. I mean,
[9:54]that sounds terrible and commercial, but they're both so helpful in different ways. His was about
[10:00]man losing his dad, yours is a mom,
[10:02]losing your mom to the same illness.
[10:03]I don't know, she's very complimentary.
[10:05]Anyway, look into it.
[10:06]Yeah, I will.
[10:07]I will.
[10:08]And speaking of Ohio, and the corn maze,
[10:09]my mom and her whole family are from Dayton, Ohio.
[10:12]Oh, that's where I'm from.
[10:13]I'm from Cincinnati.
[10:14]So I know, I read that in the book.
[10:16]And I was like, oh, that's so great.
[10:18]I've been to Dayton like this all your time.
[10:19]You know, that's funny.
[10:20]Well, we're out.
[10:21]Oh, that's great.
[10:22]Yeah, and that's so funny.
[10:23]I always forget that people know these things
[10:25]about my life because it's in the book.
[10:27]So someone will say something now.
[10:29]And I'm like, how did you know that about me?
[10:33]And then I remember, oh, yeah, I put it in a book
[10:36]that anyone can read.
[10:37]Yeah, pretty much the secret is that the Midwestern roots
[10:41]cannot be that.
[10:43]Take me back a little to growing up, not just
[10:45]that you were in Dayton, but you referenced
[10:47]your sort of sickly childhood a lot.
[10:49]And your asthma and ammonia is your bronchitis,
[10:51]or you were sick a lot.
[10:53]And obviously that has long-term effects.
[10:54]I feel like when people go through a lot,
[10:56]there's children more resilient or this side of the other thing.
[10:59]Tell me about that and what was wrong and how you got over it.
[11:02]Yeah, I just was very sickly.
[11:04]Like I have an older brother and an older sister.
[11:06]And they were like natural athletes.
[11:08]They were always like, you know, playing basketball
[11:11]or that kind of thing.
[11:12]And I was the kid who I would literally
[11:15]make a fort out of books.
[11:17]And I would sit inside my fort and just read books.
[11:20]Because, you know, it was a struggle for me
[11:23]to do physical activities.
[11:25]My asthma was so profound.
[11:27]And it took a while to diagnose that.
[11:30]And like I was always the kid at the tail end of races
[11:33]and PE class and whatnot.
[11:35]So I just never, like I just never thought of myself
[11:38]as a physically strong person.
[11:41]And that I do think that remains with you.
[11:43]And that's just always in the back of your head.
[11:45]Like maybe I can't do this.
[11:47]Maybe I'm not strong enough.
[11:48]Maybe I don't have the physical capacity to do this.
[11:52]So when I embarked on this backpacking trip,
[11:54]I, you know, I was really scared
[11:57]that I wouldn't be able to endure it.
[12:00]That, you know, I might have a medical emergency somewhere
[12:03]or just not be able to breathe.
[12:04]And that's so scary.
[12:06]So I spent a lot of time working with the travelers
[12:10]and getting vaccines for every possible place
[12:13]I was traveling to and like getting special medical insurance
[12:17]that could like airlift me out of a place.
[12:20]Like, like I had all my bases covered.
[12:23]I just had to do the thing, but you're right.
[12:25]You know, that that does have a long lasting effect
[12:28]on a person.
[12:29]It's even more of an accomplishment
[12:31]that you were able to like go to high altitudes
[12:33]and hike and like crawl of different.
[12:36]Yeah.
[12:37]That's amazing.
[12:39]I feel like a lot of people who have really bad asthma
[12:42]would not necessarily even want to do that.
[12:44]And then I found myself worrying about you with COVID
[12:46]because I was like, I wonder how that would affect her lungs.
[12:49]She's already susceptible.
[12:50]I hope you're very careful.
[12:51]Yeah.
[12:52]And I've thought a lot about the trip I took
[12:55]and what it would be like now with COVID
[12:58]because there were so many moments
[13:00]that were really physical and between me and strangers.
[13:03]And I remember, you know, being on these long haul buses
[13:07]where people would just like fall asleep on me.
[13:10]And it was just these really tender, intimate moments
[13:13]that you have with strangers.
[13:15]And I missed that.
[13:16]And I'm sad that that's not happening right now.
[13:19]One of many things to be sad about right now.
[13:24]You met your husband skydiving, which is so cool.
[13:28]And I don't think I know anybody else
[13:30]who I can say that about.
[13:31]And you didn't want to do it.
[13:32]And you were kind of annoyed.
[13:33]And then you did it together.
[13:35]And then you kept doing it over and over again.
[13:36]And then you realized like he was your person
[13:38]and next thing you know, you've set off on this adventure.
[13:41]But part of your adventure was spending all this time
[13:44]without him.
[13:45]So what led you, like what made you want to do it alone?
[13:48]I know you were sad in the book when he left and all that.
[13:51]And you know, you reunite and everything,
[13:53]but not to give anything away.
[13:54]But I can delete that if you get into it.
[13:56]No, no, it's fine.
[13:57]I don't think it's a spoiler.
[13:58]I feel like if you go to Instagram or something,
[14:00]you'll see.
[14:01]But anyway, what the culmination of it was.
[14:03]But tell me about getting together with him.
[14:05]And then the decision so soon after he immediately
[14:08]after you get married to separate.
[14:10]Yeah.
[14:11]So I feel like when you meet someone skydiving,
[14:14]that's already kind of an unconventional
[14:17]kind of relationship.
[14:19]And you know, this isn't in the book,
[14:21]but he proposed to me like six or seven times.
[14:24]And I was like, oh, I don't know.
[14:27]Like I don't want to be like a traditional wife.
[14:33]And I didn't necessarily, I kept saying like,
[14:35]I don't want to be don't read as though there's
[14:38]no other way to be a wife or to be in a marriage.
[14:41]And finally, he said, you know, our relationship
[14:44]is something that we create.
[14:46]It doesn't have to look a certain way.
[14:49]It doesn't have to go a certain way.
[14:50]Like if you're afraid of being stuck at home
[14:53]in a certain place or like in a neighborhood
[14:55]you don't like or having a certain role,
[14:58]like it doesn't have to be that.
[14:59]And then we ended up getting married
[15:02]before this trip because we did want the security
[15:05]of being able to like if I needed help in a country,
[15:09]a husband would have access to me
[15:10]that a boyfriend wouldn't.
[15:12]So it was very practical when we ended up getting married.
[15:16]But also I think it's very romantic
[15:18]that like someone wants to care for you.
[15:20]And I don't know why I thought a year apart
[15:24]would just be easy.
[15:25]Like, you know, I was, I'm very independent
[15:28]and I would go away for the weekend
[15:30]or a couple of weeks traveling.
[15:32]And I just didn't think anything of it.
[15:34]So I thought, you know, a year would be the same.
[15:36]But a year is a really long time.
[15:38]And especially when you're not traveling
[15:41]the same direction, you know?
[15:43]And so different things were happening in his life
[15:46]than with mine.
[15:47]And it was a real struggle to like find common ground
[15:51]at a certain point.
[15:52]So when I returned home, yeah, it was a difficult time
[15:55]but we worked that out.
[15:58]And you know, honestly, I was reluctant
[16:02]to even put my marriage that much in the book
[16:05]because I feel like so many women's stories
[16:08]have like a romance facet to them.
[16:11]And I was kind of resentful of that.
[16:13]Like, you can be a whole interesting complex person
[16:17]without, you know, a partner or without romance in there.
[16:20]But I think it actually adds something to the story.
[16:23]So I was finally convinced to put that in.
[16:27]Well, it's just like any other part.
[16:29]Like, just any relationship
[16:31]actually just tells the reader more about you.
[16:34]Right.
[16:34]It's not about the romance.
[16:36]It's who is she in a relationship,
[16:38]who is she when she goes to visit her mother,
[16:40]like, you know, who is she with her.
[16:41]So look, I don't know if you can speak some of the piece.
[16:44]And I don't think it's about the man or the partner even.
[16:47]It's, that's my two cents about it.
[16:49]I agree.
[16:50]And I just, I really like that it's not the main storyline
[16:53]because that's not, that's not what the story's about.
[16:56]So, yeah.
[16:57]So I appreciate that it's there.
[16:59]Yeah.
[17:00]I was really moved when you were writing
[17:01]about your hesitation to have your own kids
[17:03]because you were so worried that you would be carrying
[17:06]the gene for early Alzheimer's
[17:07]and that you would be condemning your children
[17:09]to that type of illness down the line for them.
[17:13]You said what I'm just going to read this little passage,
[17:15]but you said what I've never set out loud
[17:16]is that I'm afraid.
[17:17]Every time I misplace my keys or leave my purse in the car,
[17:21]I text my sister in a panic,
[17:22]believing I'm in the early stages of Alzheimer's myself.
[17:25]Shortly after my mom's diagnosis,
[17:26]my dad tried to come from me on the phone.
[17:28]By the time you're old enough to worry about it,
[17:30]there will be a cure for this disease, you said.
[17:32]There might not be hope for your mom,
[17:33]but there's hope for you.
[17:34]A most decade later, we are no closer to a cure
[17:37]or a way to prevent this thing,
[17:38]but I am closer to an age where I need to make a decision.
[17:41]I don't want to be a parent if I can't be fully present
[17:43]and mentally aware.
[17:44]I don't want my child to watch me disintegrate
[17:46]the way I witnessed my mom's decay
[17:48]and I don't want to pass the disease on.
[17:50]Parenthood is an enormous risk.
[17:52]And then you say however the choice feels simple
[17:54]in this living room where the wallpaper peels
[17:56]and the roof sags with mold,
[17:57]I wonder what I'm waiting for.
[17:59]I wonder if not taking a chance is in fact the bigger risk.
[18:03]Oh, I love that passage.
[18:05]Thank you.
[18:06]You know, that was an experience that really taught me something.
[18:09]So that that passage is from when I'm with some kids
[18:13]in Argentina whose parents have left them with me
[18:17]and I'm watching these kids grow up kind of like,
[18:21]I don't know, like Lord of the Flaws,
[18:22]they're just, they have to fend for themselves.
[18:25]And it really brought out a maternal instinct
[18:27]that I didn't know that I had.
[18:28]And so that was on my mind a lot as I was traveling,
[18:31]just thinking about if I wanted to have my own children
[18:34]and what that would mean.
[18:36]And did you ever want to get tested for the gene?
[18:38]Have you ever?
[18:39]So my siblings and I, we've talked about that
[18:42]and we've all decided that we don't want to know.
[18:44]Oh, well.
[18:45]Yeah.
[18:46]Have you seen the movie Ask Alice?
[18:47]Or is that what it's called?
[18:48]It's called Dallas, I think.
[18:49]Go ask Alice.
[18:50]What's up?
[18:51]No.
[18:52]With Julianne Moore.
[18:53]I know what you're talking about.
[18:53]Still Alice.
[18:54]Still Alice.
[18:55]Yes.
[18:56]Still Alice.
[18:57]No, I haven't seen it yet because it just looks,
[19:00]it looks too hard for me.
[19:02]But a lot of people have recommended it.
[19:04]So it's so good.
[19:05]It's literally one of my favorite movies.
[19:07]And so I mistakenly think that I know somebody who's
[19:10]been through this because I got to watch Julianne Moore's
[19:14]depiction of a woman going through early stage Alzheimer's
[19:17]and what that felt like.
[19:18]And the kids like you have all those same fears.
[19:21]And it was a big debate in the movie.
[19:23]Should they get tested or not?
[19:24]So anyway, yeah, that's scary.
[19:26]You never know why you're going to give your kids.
[19:27]Yeah.
[19:28]But it's also like does that make life not worth living?
[19:31]And I mean, ultimately, I know what you decided.
[19:33]But that's a tough choice.
[19:36]Aren't you glad your mom lived?
[19:38]I mean, I don't know.
[19:38]It's like one of those things.
[19:39]Yeah, I think ultimately it's like anything.
[19:42]It's just so much up to chance.
[19:45]I think any choice is brave no matter
[19:48]what a woman decides to do.
[19:49]I think just being a person in the world
[19:52]is brave.
[19:53]That's an act of bravery in itself.
[19:55]So just being out there and being a person every day,
[19:59]I think is an act of.
[20:00]bravery. So ultimately, if people read this book, I don't want them to think that they have
[20:04]to skydive or they have to travel to remote Ethiopia. They can have meaningful experiences,
[20:12]no matter what they choose to do. So tell me about, I know you were like an award-winning journalist
[20:17]for years and did all you were like amazing. Tell me about your journalism career and how you got
[20:24]into that and what that was like for you. And then how it shifted like having to work on one
[20:29]project for a sustained period of time like this. So I thought I was going to be like a cool writer
[20:34]for Rolling Stone and it turns out I ended up at a newspaper in Appalachian, Ohio. A small town paper
[20:42]and I was like this is fine. I'll just do this for a few years and then move to New York and be
[20:46]like a cool person. And that really never happened. I just continued working through newspapers and
[20:52]so I worked at some different publications in Ohio. I went on to the Cincinnati Enquirer which
[20:58]you know to me growing up in Dayton, Ohio. The Cincinnati Enquirer was like that was it. This was
[21:05]big city, huge newspaper and it's a great paper. So I had my own column there. I felt very much
[21:13]like Cincinnati carry Bradshaw. And I had, you know, I was lucky enough to have some really great
[21:21]editors who helped me develop just the craft of writing and really dig into some, you know,
[21:27]wonderful stories and they would give me the freedom to follow pieces for a long period of time
[21:32]and do some long form, which was, you know, really rare. And then somehow I ended up working the
[21:38]nighttime cops beat in Cincinnati. So it just involved a lot of listening to police scanners.
[21:45]And you know, if there was a shooting or a body dredged from the river like I was the person
[21:50]who was there. And that's not a really creative or fulfilling life. I mean, it's important. And
[21:58]somebody needs to be reporting these things, but it wasn't what I wanted to do. And so then I ended
[22:04]up moving to Palm Springs and writing feature stories here and writing about like the Coachella
[22:09]Music Festival and the Film Festival and, you know, interviewing Brad Pitt and all sorts of
[22:15]amazing things. But even even that after a while starts to feel a little formulaic or, you know,
[22:22]it just, I just kind of wanted to expand my, my aperture. You know, I wanted to get a bigger
[22:29]world view. And that's when I decided to go on this trip. Wow. And so now that you've written a book
[22:35]is this a medium, do you like writing in this, like at this length that the style versus going
[22:40]back to shorter pieces or like what do you have in mind after? Like what comes after this? Well,
[22:45]it turns out books are really, really long. And it sounds so obvious, but I was used to writing
[22:53]like really short pieces, you know, columns that were like 700 words. And so when I embarked on
[23:00]a book, I mean, it was just a whole new thing to realize, oh, wow, like I really need to sustain
[23:08]this narrative for such a long period of time and keep it compelling. And so, so I went to back to
[23:15]school and I got my MFA and I learned a lot more about writing. But yeah, it's hard, but I love it.
[23:21]I love like the freedom that books offer. And I have an idea for another book. And right now,
[23:28]I'm thinking of it as a collection of essays because I think that seems less daunting,
[23:33]but really, I think it's not really a collection of essays, I think it's just
[23:38]but I think I need to trick myself into thinking like this is something I can tackle and small bits,
[23:44]otherwise I'll never do it. So, and then gosh, no, I'm blanky-hand who this was. I just recently
[23:50]interviewed someone who said don't think of a book as a book, think of it as 12 chapters.
[23:55]Yes. Yeah. Right. Like the same, same mental trick, right? It's really just little pieces
[24:00]strung together become something bigger. Yeah. Well, it sounds so obvious, but it's not when you
[24:05]are like at a blank page of what you feel like might be hundreds of pages versus like 10 pages.
[24:11]Yeah. And you know, I always had to trick myself. I think I said in the book, like even when I
[24:18]was skydiving, I knew I would enjoy the skydive once I was out of the airplane, but it was just a
[24:23]matter of getting out the door. So, I would tell myself like, oh, I'm Angelina Jolie's stunt double
[24:29]for Tomb Raider, or I'm on the Olympic skydiving team, which doesn't actually exist, but it was
[24:36]enough to, you know, like get me out the door. And then once I was out, you know, you can't get back
[24:41]in. You just have to enjoy the fall. And I feel like that's the same thing with books too. Like
[24:49]once I was so far into writing this book, I thought, well, I can't stop now. I just need to
[24:56]enjoy this writing. And ultimately, I love it because like just being a reader for so many years,
[25:02]I know how books are a conversation and how every reader brings their own thing to the story.
[25:09]And I love that. And I love knowing that that I'm having this conversation with readers that no matter
[25:14]who gets this book into their hands, we're having a dialogue. And so I just, I want to have that
[25:20]opportunity again. And so yeah, I think that will get me going on my next project. And then
[25:28]also just launching a book during a pandemic. I feel like I need to do over. So I have to have a
[25:33]second book. It's true. I recently like reposted all these interviews I did all the
[25:39]at the beginning of the pandemic, like back in March and April. And some of those books are
[25:43]now coming out in paperback. Like I cannot believe that now we're still in this world. And their
[25:50]paperbacks are coming out. You're like, it's stretched for so long. I feel like pandemic publishing
[25:55]is just like, that's just it. That's just what the world is. Yeah, I think my paperback comes out
[26:02]in May. And I'm really hoping that I'll have some kind of tour. Like before the pandemic,
[26:09]I had all of these like, I don't know. I had all of these expectations of the book. Like it's
[26:14]going to be on all these lists. And I'm going to have, you know, I'm going to be besties with
[26:19]Oprah. And and I'm going to go on this glitzy book tour. And you know, in this scenario, I'm also
[26:26]like in a trench coat at a train station. It's like boxes and like a femme fatale in the 1940s.
[26:34]And now I'm like, I just want to be in a bookstore with people. You know, that's all I want.
[26:40]I just want to see people in real life and feel their energy and like maybe sign a book for people.
[26:47]I totally get it. You can probably relate given like your mother's sort of
[26:52]fascination with weight. And you talked about her dieting in the tab sodas and like all,
[26:56]you know, my mother was the same way. But anyway, I have this anthology coming out in February.
[27:01]And I've been thinking like, oh, you know, before the anthology. And I'm thinking, and I'm now
[27:05]I'm like, I'm going to be right here. Like, oh, I don't need to outfit my body. Nobody sees my body
[27:13]anyway. No one's going to see it in two months. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, here we are.
[27:17]No. I don't know. It's sort of funny. Yeah. I know. I know. I was, I had outfits picked out for
[27:24]my book tour. And yeah, I had like a whole thing. I had like a plan for my hair with my stylist and
[27:32]just like nothing happens. It's just, you know, me on Sarah. I think it was this other Janelle
[27:38]brand. And she posted every day for like a week, all her book tour outfits. Oh, wow. Like, it just
[27:44]was, but just like her with a mirror. She just wanted to show everybody what she would have worn
[27:49]as she got on the tour. Yeah. Anyway, craziness. What advice would you have to aspiring authors?
[27:55]So I would tell them to do it for the writing, not for the external gratification. And that's a
[28:02]conversation that I've been having with my friend Ron Curry, who is a writer because, you know,
[28:08]I had this real letdown after the book came out. And he was like, no, that's real. And you have
[28:13]to realize that you are doing this for the writing. And you're writing for it, you know, that,
[28:20]that you're doing it to find sanctuary on the page. That it's about you in the words. It's not about
[28:25]like any lists, you're on or, you know, certain things that come outside of that. So that was
[28:31]really important. And that's just a brand new lesson that I've learned. But the other big thing that
[28:37]really affected me, the writer Steve Almond, he has this teeny tiny little writing book, like a
[28:43]craft book. And one of his lessons is slow down where it hurts. And I love it. And for a long time,
[28:51]I had it on a post it, like in the corner of my laptop, because I realized not just with this book,
[28:57]but with a lot of things, like I was just trying to rush past the painful things. And that's no
[29:03]yeah, that's no way to heal. Slow down where it hurts. All right, I love it. And you never really get
[29:13]to the source of your pain. If you're just trying to move past it as quickly as possible. And once
[29:18]I knew that, like, it really helped me dig into my writing and look at the things I was avoiding.
[29:24]And so it works on the page, but it also works as a really great life lesson too.
[29:29]Well, very inspiring. Well, Maggie, thank you. Thank you. I'm glad I know. I'm sorry you had
[29:35]the feeling of letdown when your book came out, but I know I'm just one of many, many readers of
[29:39]yours, but everything, every experience you shared, like it finds its way into the reader's
[29:44]consciousness. And it like lodges itself there. So now it's in there for me. And I'll be thinking
[29:50]about it. And I don't know, just you're continuing that so many times over. It doesn't matter what
[29:54]list. Yeah. Well, and that's what I mean about a conversation. And that's, I mean, that's where
[30:00]the real value is, right? It's just in having these moments with readers. So I really appreciate it.
[30:05]Well, thanks. Me too. I'm doing it. All right. By ever get to Palm Springs again.
[30:11]Yeah, the status tournament and indeed well, I'll look you up. Yes, I will show you around. All right.
[30:17]Okay. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye bye.
[30:21]Today's podcast has been sponsored by under the influence, a new podcast by author Jo Piazza.
[30:28]And just a reminder, again, please pre-order a copy of my book.
[30:31]Moms don't have time to a quarantine anthology and go to my website under the anthology tab for
[30:39]the fundraiser. And I hope you'll buy a ticket and join me for and I should have mentioned
[30:44]all proceeds go to COVID-19 research. So please join me for the fundraiser. Thanks so much.
[30:50]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me
[30:55]on Instagram at sibioens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter
[31:00]at sibioens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[31:06]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to
[31:10]Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.