Abigail Dean, GIRL A
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[3:25]about self care and balance edited by Amy Newmark. This is a fantastic collection of essays.
[3:32]And everyone will find something relatable and that they can use to make their lives better
[3:36]within these essays. Abigail Dean is the debut author of Girl A, her first novel, which is
[3:42]publishing in spring 2021. She's a lawyer. And before that, she was a bookseller. She currently
[3:48]lives in London and is working on her second novel. Welcome, Abigail. Thank you so much for coming
[3:53]on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss Girl A. Thank you so much for having me.
[3:58]So it's really awesome to be here. Well, this book, oh my gosh, intense. Can you tell listeners
[4:05]what it's about and how did you come up with the idea for this book? Sure, I can. So Girl A is
[4:11]Lex Gracie and as a child, Lex manages to escape from her family home, which becomes known as
[4:20]the House of Horrors in the press. And when she does, she frees her six brothers and sisters
[4:27]and exposes her parents' crimes. And Girl A opens 15 years after that escape. And Lex by then
[4:37]is a successful attorney. She's living in New York. She just does not want to think about her childhood
[4:44]in any way. That is until her mother dies in prison. And when she does, she leaves Lex and her
[4:51]siblings, the family home and the House of Horrors where they grew up. So Lex has to return
[4:58]to the UK, reconnect with her brothers and sisters and kind of revisit those old battles and the
[5:06]old alliances of their childhood to decide the fate of the House. So it was your imagination,
[5:17]by the way. I mean, you were not in a house like this, correct? I'm assuming or were you?
[5:23]No, I was not. Yeah, the Gracie family and Lex, yeah, I am a lawyer, but I know when you
[5:29]was good, a lawyer was Lex's. And I, yeah, that this was very much not my childhood.
[5:34]Yes. I didn't think so. Okay. So how did you, well, first of all, how did you come up with this
[5:41]whole idea for this book? And I know it's your first like foray into this whole thing.
[5:46]Why this topic and how did you make it so real? I mean, it literally feels like you were in that
[5:53]with the window and the shackles and the piles of garbage and like the way you had it with like,
[6:01]it's just so real. So tell me just how did that, how did you do that?
[6:06]It's a weird thing when you kind of look back at the writing and you're like, I don't know,
[6:10]but thinking about it, I actually, I think there are things that sort of I did do and that,
[6:15]but I can think back to. So I think one of the things that I'd often been really interested in
[6:21]and being kind of conflicted about in another way was I'm a big kind of consumer of true crime.
[6:28]You know, I've watched the documentaries on Netflix like, you know, I've listened to the podcasts
[6:35]and I always wondered, you know, often that those those materials focus on the particular
[6:41]action or near the event. But there's like there's so much time after that, you know, you have
[6:47]like that the people who were affected by those crimes, you know, there were so many months and
[6:53]years and like decades that follow them. And I think that was one of the ideas that I was really
[6:59]thinking about with girl A, you know, in these cases that often you often do affect children,
[7:06]how do they live the rest of their lives and what kind of like resilience and strength those
[7:12]human beings have. And that was something I wanted to get a real focus of the novel, you know,
[7:17]just looking at these characters in turn who all reacted really differently to what happened to
[7:22]them and in the house of horrors, you know, how do they live now? That was a sort of real real kind
[7:30]of question that I wanted to look at. And I think in creating the house, like, you know, I actually
[7:36]really often think about houses in literature, you know, like the house of usher in Poe or
[7:45]well, like in a way like Hogwarts in Harry Potter books, they are almost a character in their own
[7:52]right, I think. I mean, they almost they shaped the book as much as any of the any of the sort of
[7:58]actual other characters do. And I think that's how I wanted the house on Moorewood's road
[8:05]to be in Gurlay, you know, where the children grow up. I had sort of small sketches of where
[8:12]the different rooms were and where the different children are different times. And yeah, I think it
[8:19]was just a case of sort of almost thinking about the house as I would, as with the same importance as
[8:25]the people who occupy it, if that makes sense. I feel like if I were writing this, I would have
[8:31]to just like take my own house or something and make it like to recreate a ton of like I don't
[8:37]think visually like that, like in terms of like being able to just like manufacture another completely
[8:43]new house that then devolves into this crazy, you know, stuff that happens. I don't know, I'm very
[8:49]impressed in that words. It's, it's, I think that like the landscape definitely is because the
[8:56]the house is also set on this like more land. I mean, it's quite isolated. It's sort of out of town
[9:02]up this, you know, road where the houses get further and further apart. I think that that road
[9:09]is definitely based on a road that is very near to my parents' house and where I grew up.
[9:15]It's a road that always kind of need me a bit on edge. It kind of goes up into the mall and just
[9:21]that side of Manchester. And it's one of those roads as well with street lamps, like just kind of
[9:27]stop halfway up. So I think that that was a real influence. Like it was one that you wanted as
[9:33]roads that, you know, you kind of take a different route to avoid it. One of those. So it's not
[9:39]an entirely fiction, I think, in terms of the setting, the house maybe, but not the road.
[9:44]Okay. So you could actually imagine when Lexi escapes and is like standing in the road
[9:51]half naked and, you know, has to stop a car and go to the hospital and that look of horror on the
[9:56]driver's face. Like, oh my gosh. So you have like-
[10:00]the actual background for the whole thing. Which is very cool. Yeah, exactly. I think the road
[10:04]has just got more scary for me. I don't think I'm going to be able to go like a longer effort again.
[10:10]Yeah, you're going to have to continually taking alternate routes here.
[10:15]Or you have to get some sort of a new land for something and say like, this is where this book
[10:20]was based, you know, like a post changed the whole look. I'll give that a go definitely.
[10:26]Yeah. Okay. So when you set out to write this book, how did you integrate it with your career
[10:33]as an attorney and everything? When did you write it? How did you decide like, okay, I'm also going to
[10:38]write this book and I'm going to take the time for it. And how did that all happen? Or was it just
[10:43]more organic? It wasn't in a way, it wasn't very organic, I guess. I'd been working as an attorney
[10:50]in law firms for six years or so. And I had just come to the end of like a really tough,
[10:59]a really tough time at work, just for really grueling hours. You know, sort of, I remember very vividly
[11:06]missing my husband's birthday on a Saturday night, but that I had like planned. And just kind of,
[11:13]I think it was one of those moments where you sort of step back a bit and you look at your life
[11:17]and you were like, oh, was this actually, you know, is this actually what I wanted? Like, was
[11:21]this the plan? And if this was the plan, like, should it still be the plan because you're obviously
[11:26]not particularly happy right now. And one of the kind of elements you of that was the fact that I
[11:33]hadn't written in those six years in that six year period. It was something that as a kid,
[11:38]I was always doing as a teenager, you know, it's writing, found fiction and I was like filling
[11:44]notebooks and it had completely slipped away from me. So I think in terms of trying to address
[11:51]the sort of work issues, you know, I was like, I'm going to leave my job, but as part of that,
[11:57]I want to take some time to give writing a go and, you know, to just just see if I can get
[12:04]something down and, you know, if it's something that my family and friends might, you know, want to
[12:10]and we can go from there. So I took three months off between jobs. I had another little job lined up
[12:17]that, you know, I knew would have better hours and kind of more realistic balanced approach to
[12:24]to things. So yeah, in that three month period, so to be honest, I thought, you know, I'm going to
[12:29]finish my novel. I'm going to finish it. I mean, how ridiculous. I got about halfway, maybe about a
[12:38]third of the way through and then it was another nine months of working away, you know, in evenings
[12:44]and weekends. But, you know, that was also while working in a job that was much more manageable and
[12:50]gave me the sort of energy to be able to, to right go away and to finish it.
[12:56]So you might not have finished it in the three months, but I bet you did enough in the three
[13:01]months to that it got propelled. And I mean, sometimes you need that headspace just to like
[13:07]completely delve into it. I would not be yourself off about it. I think three months is definitely
[13:11]aggressive. But, you know, I love that you tried it because like look what happened.
[13:16]It's true. And I think that you're exactly right in terms of you almost make such an investment
[13:23]in that three month period. You know, it's like, you kind of like kind of got traveling and
[13:27]so I was sitting in a library like, you know, working on on girl A. And I think that that,
[13:33]you know, you put in so much that in a way that that in itself is a big drive that's just kind of
[13:40]keep going. And in the more tire in evenings and you know, when you're like, I'd really rather
[13:45]be watching like selling some set right now. You know, okay, like actually, no, I'm going to,
[13:50]I'm going to write girl A and I'm going to try to see it, try to see it through.
[13:54]And so what happened then when you finished it? I finished it around sort of springtime
[14:01]of 2019, I think. And I actually just shown it by then to my family and she looks my husband
[14:08]and yeah, she looks my parents who are retired English teachers as well. And they were like,
[14:15]you know, my husband said very memorably and I kind of laughed at him for this, but it was
[14:19]actually one of the nicest things that anybody has said to me, you know, he said, it's like
[14:24]a book for your buy in a shop. And you know, I thought, okay, well, in my case, I will,
[14:33]I'll try to send it to agents and I will just see if they're interested. So I kind of put
[14:39]together the pack that you know, it is a right to put together the covering letter and the summary
[14:44]and your first three chapters and send it out to some agents who I knew had had represented
[14:53]all loved books that were similar to Goa. And that's what I looked for, you know, I think often
[14:59]agents list their favorite books on their website so they, you know, you can read about recent
[15:03]deals in their press. And that's kind of how I targeted the submissions and quite a few agents
[15:10]were interested. I think three of the five that I sent it to. And I think that was the first moment
[15:15]when you think like, oh, this could actually happen maybe, you know, it obviously there's still
[15:20]a lot of stages to go, but it felt really hopeful and that for the first time. That's amazing.
[15:26]And then your agent took it out and sold it right away. Is that what happened? I don't know the
[15:30]publication story. No, it's all so we actually, one of the reasons that I ended up going with my
[15:36]agent was that she felt that it needed quite a lot of work before we sent it to publishers.
[15:43]So she wanted to spend a bit of time editing it with me. And I really liked that idea. I think,
[15:49]I definitely didn't really have loads of confidence in my writing. Never really have.
[15:55]And I think I liked the idea that she wanted to make it as good as it possibly could be
[16:00]before we sent it to publishers. So we did three months of editing like two full rounds of editing
[16:06]before it was sent out. And then what happened? So then it was sent to publishing houses in the US
[16:14]and in the UK. And I very vividly remember my agent saying to me, I was going on a business trip
[16:21]for work and I was going to India. And she said, like, you know, watch us go and have a, you know,
[16:27]think, don't think about this and just think about work and, you know, we probably won't hear
[16:31]anything in the next week. So I remember being in a taxi in rural India and I had no phone signal.
[16:40]Well, I actually had the word was something worse than no phone signal. I had just
[16:44]no phone signal to see that my agent was calling me when I was in this taxi. But without any
[16:50]ability to answer the phone or to hear what she was saying. So there was a kind of agonizing
[16:58]three-hour car journey when I knew that she was trying to get through to me. But I just
[17:02]not hear a word. And that was her ringing with the news that in the UK and in the US,
[17:10]it looked like there would be auctions for delay, which was just way beyond anything that I'd
[17:18]ever expected or hoped for. Yeah. But it was a very stressful tense three hours.
[17:25]Wow. That is so exciting. That's like the total dream having a novel good auction. That's like,
[17:31]you know, it doesn't get much better than that, right? In terms of trying to sell a book.
[17:36]Yeah, it was just kind of as surreal as you would expect. And I'm still not entirely short sunken
[17:41]either. I think I still got a bit of doubt as to whether any of this actually happened. So
[17:48]and yet now it's come out. I wonder, I mean, it's not that the life has somewhat
[17:53]returned a little bit versus where it was a year ago, but we are still in the pandemic as this
[17:58]book is coming out. Did you see when you were selling it and planning for the release? What
[18:04]did you think? Did you think it would be over by now? Like, what were you anticipating the world to
[18:08]look like? Because I remember last March and I would talk to authors and they were even like,
[18:12]oh, well, I'm publishing in January and July. So I'll be fine. You know, and now of course,
[18:15]it's like the following February. So tell me about that. I definitely had that sense, I think,
[18:23]oh, it's kind of we're talking about nearly a year away, like things will probably be
[18:28]going to be back to normal by then. It's really strange because I think ultimately in publishing and
[18:37]writing, it hasn't, you know, it's not had a massive effect. I think books are still selling people
[18:44]are reading kind of more than ever. The only thing I think that is a real dampener is not getting
[18:50]to meet booksellers and readers. I think that that is kind of like it would have just been lovely
[18:57]to do that. At the same time, I hope that those moments will come. And I feel like I have this
[19:04]massive list of people who I want to like say thank you to a person. And I hope that yeah,
[19:10]like soon enough, it will be possible to do that. But but in the meantime, I think yeah,
[19:15]like I just feel very, very grateful to be published. And it happened in a pandemic. But
[19:22]yeah, I think the book's still getting out there. People are still meeting the Gracie family and
[19:27]and it's still gripping readers. And that's kind of what matters to me. No, it's great. People
[19:32]are longing for stories that completely suck them in right now. I think more than ever, right? They
[19:37]just, I feel like even my mother the other day was like, you know, I just can't get through a book,
[19:42]you know, I don't know why usually I get through everything. And I just keep putting them down.
[19:47]And I was so of course I was like, well, let me recommend a few that I haven't been able to put
[19:51]down, you know, and she's like, okay, I'll try. But I just feel like there's this collective like,
[19:57]I don't know at first there was so much anxiety.
[20:00]that people weren't reading.
[20:01]And then I think people got back into reading.
[20:03]And I don't know.
[20:04]I think there's this fatigue at this point, right?
[20:07]Like, especially as older people get the vaccine
[20:10]and they know that maybe they will have
[20:11]this protective shield of sorts coming
[20:14]that they're, you know, so excited almost
[20:16]they can't sit down and read.
[20:18]Yeah, I know, I think you're exactly right.
[20:21]Like, I feel like a present there is actually some hope
[20:24]that came with this start of a new year
[20:27]and with the vaccine.
[20:29]And yeah, I'm kind of hoping that slowly
[20:32]that low level, kind of horrible worry and stress
[20:36]that has been there is kind of converting to hope.
[20:40]I'm like, you know, the balance is still potentially
[20:42]bit shifted towards the worry,
[20:43]but it feels like we're heading hopefully
[20:46]in the right direction.
[20:47]We should all have like one of those old fashioned
[20:50]skills on our deaths with hope and worry.
[20:52]You know, or maybe it's more of a sliding,
[20:55]a sliding thing like a different type of skill
[20:58]where every day you can do an edit right of the left
[21:00]and then you could let people know.
[21:02]Like my husband could come in and he could see like,
[21:04]oh, you're all the way on the word.
[21:06]Okay.
[21:07]And he could just turn around and walk out.
[21:10]Some things today you should not say to me
[21:12]because you can see more on the hope side, you know,
[21:16]come back to me then.
[21:18]That's not a bad idea.
[21:19]Now he has to rely on just a quick glance,
[21:22]but he can pretty much figure it out.
[21:24]You know, back in the day before the pandemic,
[21:28]I used to do all these events and I would pair authors
[21:31]for various reasons.
[21:32]Usually two authors sometimes three for topics
[21:35]that I found had some interest and maybe not
[21:38]in a predictable way.
[21:39]And I feel like if this were regular time,
[21:41]I would want to pair you with Stephanie Thornton,
[21:43]Plimeel, and I don't know if you're familiar with her book.
[21:46]It's called American Daughter.
[21:47]And obviously, I know you're not American,
[21:48]but her story is a memoir about having basically grown up
[21:53]in a situation like this.
[21:55]She was one of five or six
[21:57]because she had half siblings,
[21:58]but six siblings essentially who,
[22:00]part of her growing up, she was a prisoner in a house
[22:04]and how it affected all of those siblings years later.
[22:08]So it's almost like the real life, not exactly.
[22:11]It wasn't per se, this house of horrors,
[22:13]like the way your book is with everybody
[22:16]and one escapee at the beginning, you know, all of that.
[22:19]But it is what happens when you've gone through
[22:22]so much trauma in your early childhood
[22:24]in a completely, you know, out there way
[22:28]that so few people can even relate to
[22:31]what happens to you then and how do you repair your life
[22:34]and what happens to all the different siblings, right?
[22:36]It's like you have a control set,
[22:38]like it's a psychological experiment.
[22:40]So anyway, I feel like the two of you should like
[22:41]take this on the road or something.
[22:43]No, I was literally, I'm like writing a style
[22:45]because it sounds, yeah, like an amazing story.
[22:49]And yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that it sounds
[22:53]like American daughter might have as well is that
[22:57]there is like hope to it.
[22:58]You know, I think sometimes you can hear
[23:00]the arc of a story and think, you know,
[23:02]this is going to be like a desperately difficult,
[23:05]sad weed and I think often in those kind of really
[23:09]dark places, there's also a lot of strength
[23:13]and resilience and hope as well.
[23:16]Yes, she could nudge her hope meter all the way over.
[23:19]People can get through basically everything.
[23:21]And I think your book speaks to this too
[23:23]as you see like a fully functional woman, you know,
[23:26]marching into a prison, picking up her mother's things
[23:29]and, you know, going about her business
[23:31]and speaking intelligently and knowing that she went through that
[23:35]and seeing how she can function in everyday life.
[23:37]Like it's just empowering, right?
[23:40]Then you think, well, gosh, if people can get through this,
[23:42]you know, the fact that like, you know,
[23:44]my mom missed this concert of mine or something,
[23:47]it's like not even, I mean, she didn't.
[23:48]But, you know, the little things that come in most people's
[23:51]lives suddenly feel just so insignificant
[23:54]in the grand scheme of things.
[23:56]Yeah, I wanted Lex to be this really kind of,
[23:59]in a way quite reserved narrator, you know,
[24:02]I don't think she necessarily was her heart
[24:05]or suffering on her sleeve in any way.
[24:09]But I think that she just has this kind of real internal
[24:14]strength, like this kind of quiet strength,
[24:17]both in her escape, but also in how she approaches life.
[24:22]Yeah, in the present day, you know, as she's kind of dealing
[24:26]with how the house of horrors can be turned into something
[24:30]it forced for good.
[24:32]She does have a kind of slightly right humor about things.
[24:36]And yeah, I think that's what sort of, for me,
[24:39]that's where the hope of the novel is found,
[24:43]is that it is in Lex's kind of narrative
[24:45]and in her was just this like fantastic woman.
[24:48]I think, yeah, amazing.
[24:51]Well, Abigail, what advice do you have
[24:53]to aspiring authors aside from,
[24:56]you can't necessarily finish a book in three months?
[24:59]That would definitely be number one, I'll be right.
[25:04]So, I guess, and this is gonna sound so unremantic
[25:08]in terms of advice.
[25:10]But I think it is just to write and to get the words down
[25:15]for a huge amount of like, oh, yeah, my 20s, you know,
[25:19]I would often say, well, my dream job would be to be a writer,
[25:22]you know, that's what I'd love to be a writer.
[25:25]And another kind of blunt piece of advice from my husband
[25:29]was, well, you can't be a writer if you don't write anything,
[25:34]which is even felt at the time a bit kind of close
[25:37]to the bone, I think.
[25:40]It is very true.
[25:42]And I think that that's kind of the biggest, you know,
[25:45]most important piece of advice in a way that I think
[25:47]I had is there's no reason why it shouldn't be you
[25:51]who does get published, but you will never,
[25:55]ever have the shot unless you have got the words down
[25:59]on the page.
[26:00]And yeah, it doesn't matter if it's on your phone,
[26:03]which sometimes is for me, it is just getting the words down.
[26:07]That's great.
[26:09]Well, thank you.
[26:09]I love hearing success stories like yours.
[26:12]I love that it all paid off and that you took stock
[26:16]of your life and your job and rebalanced everything
[26:20]and like look what came of it.
[26:21]Like you gave yourself just the littlest window
[26:24]and it has exploded into a novel that is so brilliantly
[26:29]written and gripping and that all these other people now
[26:33]are gonna take their time to enjoy.
[26:34]It's really amazing.
[26:36]So I feel like you have this corollary piece of advice,
[26:40]which is for people who are like in a job
[26:43]that they know is not right for them.
[26:45]Sometimes it's worth it because the benefits
[26:48]of taking stock and sort of doing what you feel deep down
[26:53]you're meant to do ends up helping way more people.
[26:55]And ultimately making you far more successful
[26:58]than you could have been in a job that is sort of
[27:00]deadening your soul.
[27:01]Yeah, I'm very relieved that I took that to the chance.
[27:04]Yeah, and I've grown really didn't.
[27:06]So thank you so much, Sophie.
[27:09]Oh, thank you.
[27:09]I'm glad you took the chance too because otherwise
[27:12]I would be holding nothing.
[27:13]I would just be going like this and we would probably
[27:15]not be on the phone.
[27:17]Anyway, all right, well congratulations.
[27:18]Enjoy all of the success so well-deserved and bravo to you.
[27:23]Thank you so much.
[27:24]And thank you for reading it, go like.
[27:25]Of course.
[27:26]All right, take care.
[27:27]Bye bye.
[27:29]Thanks to today's sponsor, chicken soup for the soul,
[27:31]making me time, 101 stories about self-care and balance
[27:34]edited by Amy Newmark.
[27:36]And just a reminder, again, please pre-order a copy
[27:39]of my book, Moms Don't Have Time To,
[27:41]A Quarantine Anthology, and go to my website
[27:45]under the anthology tab for the fundraiser.
[27:48]And I hope you'll buy a ticket and join me for,
[27:51]and I should have mentioned, I'll proceed to go
[27:54]to COVID-19 research.
[27:55]So please join me for the fundraiser.
[27:58]Thanks so much.
[27:59]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms
[28:01]Don't Have Time To Read Books.
[28:02]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[28:04]at Zebioans, and at Moms Don't Have Time To Read Books.
[28:07]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[28:10]and sign up for my virtual book club
[28:12]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[28:14]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[28:17]for the sound editing.
[28:18]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:20]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.