Luvvie Ajayi Jones, PROFESSIONAL TROUBLEMAKER
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
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[1:22]I loved talking to Lovey. I have to say that. Love, Lovey.
[1:26]I love talking to Lovey Ajayi Jones, who wrote professional troublemaker, the fear fighter manual.
[1:32]Lovey Ajayi Jones is a New York Times best-selling author, speaker and podcast host,
[1:37]who thrives at the intersection of comedy, media, and justice.
[1:40]Her debut book, I'm judging you, The Do Better Manual, was released a critical acclaim
[1:45]hitting the New York Times best-selling list at number five.
[1:48]Her new book, Professional Troublemaker, is just coming out now.
[1:51]She is an internationally-recognized speaker who takes on dozens of stages every year around the globe
[1:57]and has spoken at some of the world's most innovative companies and conferences,
[2:01]including Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Twitter.
[2:04]She is also co-creator of the hashtag ShareTheMikeNowGlobalMovement
[2:08]and host her podcast, Professional Troublemaker.
[2:10]Welcome, Lovey. Thank you so much for coming on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read books.
[2:14]Thanks so much for having me, Zibi.
[2:16]I am really excited about professional troublemaker and I got so much good advice.
[2:21]This is the fear, the fear fighter manual is clearly what I needed right now.
[2:25]Yeah.
[2:26]It's the book that I needed, so I still always need.
[2:29]So tell me a little bit about that.
[2:31]What made you write this is sort of a follow-up to your last book.
[2:34]Tell me about this book.
[2:36]I was inspired to write this book because as I was thinking about, you know,
[2:39]how my follow-up to book one would be, one of the big things that I started realizing
[2:44]that I reflected my TED Talk is about how my journey is a series of moments
[2:52]where I chose to not be moved by the fear that I felt.
[2:58]You know, I have found what happens and I've seen what happens in my life
[3:03]when I choose courage, when I choose to acknowledge the moments where I'm afraid
[3:07]and I say, you know what, I'm going to move forward anyway.
[3:10]And that thing, like, sat on my shoulders.
[3:13]I felt so convicted and compelled to write about this because it is a real problem
[3:18]that we all deal with fear.
[3:21]And fear, I think, has been given a lot of credit because we tend to think if we are afraid
[3:25]or somehow weak, right?
[3:27]We hear people talk about fearlessness.
[3:29]And I think fearlessness really means committing to not doing less because of your fear.
[3:35]So instead of letting fear have the power about how us thinking just because we feel it, we're weak,
[3:40]I'm like, no, no, no, we're supposed to be afraid.
[3:43]What happens and what matters is what we do when we are afraid.
[3:47]So I realized that I was being called to write a book about why I am a professional troublemaker
[3:54]and why I fight fear.
[3:56]And I think the professional troublemaker of it all is that to make trouble in this world
[4:01]is to disrupt the status quo, to disrupt rooms for the greater good.
[4:05]It's not about you being a contrarian or a troll,
[4:08]but it's about really understanding that in this world that is asking us all to bow
[4:13]when we don't, we're making trouble.
[4:15]So why not actually reclaim that phrase and say, yes, I am a troublemaker.
[4:20]I am a professional troublemaker because I insist on doing what is hard,
[4:25]especially when it's hard, as long as it is for my good or the good of everybody around me.
[4:30]So yeah, that's why this book is so important why I want to write it right now.
[4:35]Well, one of the things that you talked about in the TED Talk,
[4:38]and then you went into more in the book with naming the company.
[4:41]So I don't know if you wanted to do,
[4:43]name it in the book, but not in the TED Talk, but you went to a conference
[4:47]and you realized that the white man who was speaking to the conference got paid for travel
[4:52]and for their speech, that the white women got paid for their speech,
[4:57]but not the travel and that the black women got had to pay to be there.
[5:02]Did I get that right? Which is crazy.
[5:05]So, and then you decided instead of keeping this inside that you were going to talk about it
[5:09]and you had fear per your whole thing about speaking up when you're afraid
[5:13]and you decided to come out and talk about it.
[5:15]So tell me about that moment and then the aftermath.
[5:19]Yeah, I actually didn't end up going to the conference because it came to need to speak
[5:22]and when I found out from fellow members of this cohort that I'm a part of
[5:27]called the list that there was this weird pay gap that was happening.
[5:32]I turned it down and I decided to talk about it publicly now on Twitter
[5:36]and talked about how being a black woman who is credentialed,
[5:42]who has the experience even I still have to prove my worth over and over again.
[5:47]And I didn't even mention the conference publicly at first
[5:51]and then people figured it out and the conference organizer himself,
[5:54]like actually reached out because my tweets and my information and what I really was talking about
[5:59]in terms of the inequality and pay gaps, especially in tech,
[6:02]ended up being written about it forbs.
[6:04]And he said, the CEO of the conference sent the Forbes writer and me,
[6:09]this email that was full of dog whistle.
[6:11]That was basically like, oh, maybe I can command my fee was a more urban demographic.
[6:15]And I was like, wait a minute, you guys came to me.
[6:18]But it was a real moment where I had to be who I said I was out loud, right?
[6:23]You know, being afraid is real because we're usually afraid of the consequences.
[6:27]We're afraid of how we're going to get punished if we decide to do or say something that's tough
[6:32]or that challenge is something that is bigger than us, right?
[6:35]And I have to think to myself, like, I understand my fear.
[6:38]My fear is valid.
[6:39]You know, I could actually face financial consequences if other conferences see me speak up about this
[6:44]and say, you know, we don't want to have a love become.
[6:46]But then I have to say, wait a minute, but if not you who has 10 years of speaking experience,
[6:51]who has been on some amazing stages, who commands a five figure fee?
[6:56]Who else are you expecting to now challenge this thing?
[7:00]Are you expecting the person we just started last week?
[7:02]So I had to kind of remember that my job in this world is not just to be comfortable
[7:08]and coast through it.
[7:09]If I am a professional troublemaker,
[7:11]I especially have to be one even when there are stakes on the line.
[7:15]In fact, here's the thing about courage.
[7:17]You cannot have courage without fear.
[7:20]You cannot be brave if the thing is easy.
[7:23]That's not brave.
[7:24]That's just what you do.
[7:26]But in that moment, we have to also choose what is the best case scenario, right?
[7:33]It's the idea of if I do this thing, what is the win?
[7:38]What could come out of this?
[7:40]And for me, the best case scenario was that conferences like this,
[7:44]who have power, who make a lot of money, changed their policies to make sure
[7:49]that they're not paying people for the same thing different amounts
[7:53]if they have the same experience.
[7:55]And my win was that we could start a conversation about how this, how prevalent this is.
[8:00]My win was that other people see that they were not going to be alone
[8:04]if they've also face the same thing because I have my prominent platform.
[8:08]I have, you know, a certain name currency and even I'm still facing it.
[8:12]So I was hoping somebody else is like, wow, so it's not just me.
[8:15]Now the worst case scenario was if I did it and I stopped getting booked to speak
[8:21]and that's a big piece of my business model, right?
[8:24]And what would happen if that happened?
[8:26]Okay.
[8:27]My business would take a revenue hit.
[8:29]I might not be able to afford payroll as much as possible.
[8:33]I think I would.
[8:34]I might have to lay off a couple, a couple of people.
[8:37]But if I stopped getting speaking engagements, I guess I could go back to my digital strategy life.
[8:42]Like my background as a marketing communications before I became a public speaker.
[8:47]I was a person helping people figure out how to use social media to further their missions.
[8:51]So my worst case scenario was that I would take a hit on the speaker side.
[8:56]But I still had my other skills.
[8:59]So I weighed those two options and I said, you know what?
[9:02]The worst case scenario is still not big enough of what could happen if the best case scenario happens.
[9:07]So I spoke up about it.
[9:09]And one thing that I learned after that is that oftentimes the fear,
[9:14]the thing that we're afraid of happening doesn't happen.
[9:17]That year actually ended up being to date at that point.
[9:21]My biggest speaking year, that year is the year that I did my TED talk.
[9:25]And I was invited to do this TED talk that now has over five million views.
[9:30]And it really, really taught me it was like a real lesson in do not build up dragons in your head of scenarios.
[9:40]Don't build up monsters of things that can happen.
[9:43]And then you make it stop you from doing what you're supposed to do.
[9:46]You're supposed to say, we are often acting out of the best case scenario because we're afraid of the worst case scenario that never comes.
[9:54]And that whole situation was a perfect lesson in that.
[9:58]Had I acted out first?
[10:00]of all, I wouldn't have a piece written in Forbes
[10:02]about the fact that paid and quality happens in tech.
[10:06]I wouldn't have people publicly be like,
[10:08]I too have actually had to deal with this.
[10:10]The conference had to answer for this gap that they had.
[10:15]And I wouldn't have the attention that it got me
[10:19]that allowed me to now pass this message
[10:21]on on a larger stage.
[10:23]The best case scenario was so much better.
[10:25]Well, and you wouldn't have written that book
[10:27]perhaps you wouldn't be talking to me.
[10:29]What are we doing right now?
[10:30]I don't know.
[10:31]Exactly.
[10:32]Changing people's lives.
[10:33]Imagine the domino effect that
[10:35]don't know when we decide to say something that matters.
[10:38]Like the domino effect, the butterfly effect,
[10:41]whatever people want to call it, it's huge.
[10:43]It's true.
[10:44]Do you think fear is only when you're
[10:47]talking about being brave?
[10:49]Like is it only for a sort of big societal change things?
[10:53]Or is it just something like I'm scared of spiders?
[10:55]I think fear is in the tiny moments.
[10:58]It's in the small moments of, yes, I am petrified of spiders
[11:02]by the way, like I hate.
[11:03]I don't do bugs, I don't do rodents.
[11:05]I instantly lose all form of courage.
[11:08]I lose it when I see a bug.
[11:10]I think when we talk about fear, yeah,
[11:12]we think about the big moments of like, oh my god,
[11:14]jumping off, jumping out of a plane, right?
[11:16]No, no, I think our everyday lives present us
[11:20]with opportunities and things to be afraid of,
[11:23]things to be anxious about.
[11:24]And sometimes it's even as simple as a conversation
[11:28]that you're afraid to have with a friend,
[11:30]a friend who hurts your feelings, right?
[11:32]And you're just like, I'm afraid I'm going to hurt her feelings
[11:36]if I bring this up.
[11:37]That is fear.
[11:38]So fear is in the small moments, but I find that
[11:41]when we don't know how to deal within the small moments,
[11:44]the big moments become a massive challenge.
[11:47]If we don't have the practice in the day-to-day
[11:50]personal life stuff of actually conquering our fear
[11:53]and speaking the truth and doing what feels tough,
[11:56]when we are called to do it in a larger space,
[11:59]in a bigger stage, we don't even know how to do it
[12:03]because we're just like, we'd never built up the muscle for it.
[12:06]So my thing is, honestly, every day presents
[12:08]the small moments and choices and chances to pick courage.
[12:14]It means, you know, if you're in the meeting
[12:16]and you just like, I don't like that idea
[12:18]that somebody just gave, it's not thoughtful,
[12:21]pushing through the fear of rocking the boat
[12:23]and saying, hey, I think we should rethink this idea
[12:26]because here's why, you know, it's in the times
[12:29]when you're like, hmm, I think I deserve a raise
[12:32]and you're afraid to ask your boss
[12:34]because you're afraid of the know that may come.
[12:36]And I'm like, if the know is the worst case scenario,
[12:39]but the best case scenario is that you might get this raise
[12:42]that could fix your financial life,
[12:44]the know will not kill you, go for it.
[12:46]So again, I think for those of us
[12:49]who are very practical and pragmatic people,
[12:50]I'm always like try to find the logic in it,
[12:53]find the logic in it.
[12:54]If it's what is really the thing that you're afraid of
[12:58]and is it really so bad?
[12:59]Even if that thing was to happen,
[13:01]is it really so bad?
[13:02]Is it disastrous to your life?
[13:04]Is it life alternately damaging?
[13:07]If it's most things are not,
[13:09]most things are just, we're afraid of no.
[13:12]So do it, because what if you got the yes?
[13:15]I love that.
[13:16]I loved your chapter about firing yourself as your boss
[13:20]because I kind of do this podcast and do all these things
[13:23]and I try to do a lot of it myself and I offload some,
[13:27]but I have a really hard time with that.
[13:29]And I read your chapter and I was like,
[13:30]oh my gosh, this is like me, she's sagging to me.
[13:33]And yet you talk about it's so important to do that
[13:37]because otherwise you burn out and blah, blah, blah.
[13:39]So just give me your like rundown of this
[13:42]just to remind me and you said it
[13:43]that like you need to reread your chapter on this yourself.
[13:46]So I'll give you an opportunity here
[13:49]so we can both be reminded.
[13:51]Yes, I think it's really important to fire ourselves.
[13:55]We are so pressured to do and be everything for everybody
[14:00]and it is not possible.
[14:02]And then we drop balls and then we get guilty
[14:05]about dropping a ball and then we end up in this cycle
[14:07]of I should have done it better.
[14:10]We only have 24 hours in our day.
[14:11]Eight of those hours were supposed to be sleeping.
[14:13]That leaves us 16 hours to do everything else.
[14:16]We're sisters, wives, mothers, friends, aunts
[14:21]and then we're also trying to be CEOs, VPs,
[14:26]all of these titles are competing for our time,
[14:29]all of these things.
[14:30]And I'm always like, why do we constantly feel like
[14:32]we have to be good at everything?
[14:34]Nobody said we had to be good at everything.
[14:37]There's somebody else who was better at something
[14:39]than we are, handed over to them
[14:42]as I've been running my own company for the last 11 years.
[14:45]I've had to learn this in phases
[14:48]where I've had to increasingly let go of control.
[14:52]I've had to increasingly fire myself
[14:54]because I used to work for myself.
[14:56]With myself, I was my own assistant.
[14:57]I was my own accountant, my own attorney.
[14:59]It was just too much.
[15:01]And you get overwhelming drowning all the stuff
[15:04]when I learned to fire myself
[15:05]and it's a constant work in process, like progress.
[15:08]I just fired myself today from my inbox.
[15:11]I had my assistant go in there and I said,
[15:12]can you just sweep through my inbox?
[15:14]Like I don't have to see anything.
[15:16]You answer on my behalf.
[15:17]That's huge, right?
[15:18]Because she just saved me how many hours in my day
[15:21]that I'd be like, oh my God, I have to reply to this thing.
[15:24]Firing ourselves is a trust exercise.
[15:26]And it's a trust exercise
[15:28]because you are counting on somebody else
[15:30]to do this thing without your watch.
[15:33]You're counting on somebody else
[15:34]to hold the ball up in the air so it doesn't drop.
[15:38]But we can't afford not to do that.
[15:40]When we say, no, not to do it myself,
[15:43]how long is your to do this?
[15:44]And then you realize you never get to the bottom of it.
[15:47]If somebody else can show up
[15:49]and mark off three things on this to-do list,
[15:52]that's three things that you did not have to do yourself.
[15:54]So fire yourself as a life habit.
[15:57]I will outsource something very quickly.
[15:59]I started having a housekeeper come to my house
[16:01]because I was like, they spent three hours cleaning my house.
[16:04]If I had to spend three hours cleaning my own house,
[16:06]first of all, what other things could I be doing?
[16:08]Maybe I can get extra sleep, okay?
[16:11]Or maybe I can listen to music.
[16:13]Maybe I can spend time with those I love.
[16:15]So it's just a way for us to buy back our time.
[16:18]Time is finite.
[16:20]Buy some of it back by handing over responsibilities
[16:23]to other people and letting them do it for you.
[16:25]Wow, I love that.
[16:26]What a great approach to time management.
[16:29]And even how you evaluate what to do and what not to do.
[16:32]And you have a whole section on like,
[16:34]well, maybe you're giving it to the wrong person.
[16:36]And that's okay too, because I think that's easy to say,
[16:39]like, hey, okay, I'm off-loading everything,
[16:41]but what if people disappoint you?
[16:43]People will disappoint you.
[16:45]It's not even what if they will.
[16:47]It is a requirement because everybody
[16:52]will not approach it in the same way you will.
[16:54]Everybody does not think like you do.
[16:57]And honestly, everybody does not have the same sense
[16:58]of urgency issue.
[17:00]They will disappoint you.
[17:01]What you do is figure out whether disappointment
[17:03]is a lack of competence or whether it was just a pure mistake
[17:09]that they will fix next time.
[17:10]And I think we'll use the excuse of,
[17:13]that one person disappointed me.
[17:15]So I took it back off their plate
[17:17]and now it's mine to own.
[17:18]That is how you set yourself up for further failure,
[17:21]because that's exhausting.
[17:22]To constantly be like, no, no, I take it back.
[17:24]I do myself.
[17:25]You will end up back in the loop.
[17:27]The guilt loop, the unpredictability loop
[17:30]and the shame loop, loop sometimes.
[17:33]And yeah, let people disappoint you.
[17:36]Do be okay.
[17:37]You know, most mistakes are not disastrous also.
[17:41]Again, we really will take something and blow it up.
[17:46]Most mistakes can be fixed with the sorry.
[17:48]Oh, we'll make sure we get that done better next time.
[17:51]Yeah, most mistakes will not end up
[17:52]with you losing your business, ultimately.
[17:55]So when we're like, oh, if I have to have somebody else
[17:57]do this for me, what if they mess it up?
[17:59]What if they do?
[18:01]Do you lose everything?
[18:02]Can this be rectified?
[18:04]Probably, okay, let it go.
[18:06]Thank you.
[18:07]I need to hear that today, particularly.
[18:10]Thank you.
[18:11]Oh my gosh.
[18:12]Okay, imposter syndrome.
[18:14]Can we talk about that too?
[18:15]You said you used it in nine years.
[18:17]It took you to admit you were a writer.
[18:19]Do you finally wear that mantle proudly
[18:21]and, you know, Jennifer in the rooftops?
[18:23]Can you, yes?
[18:25]I am a writer.
[18:26]For years, I did not think that title pertain to me
[18:31]because I felt like it was too big.
[18:36]I felt like I had a lot of expectations
[18:39]that I wasn't sure I could live up to.
[18:41]And then I also didn't see a writer
[18:43]that was making a great living doing what I did,
[18:46]which was just writing about the world as she saw it.
[18:50]You know, I wasn't writing for the New York Times.
[18:52]I was writing on my own website.
[18:54]So I fought that title for a long time
[18:56]just because I just attached so much to it.
[18:58]So many projections, so many expectations.
[19:01]And I didn't think I was ready for it.
[19:04]But I finally ran out of excuses.
[19:07]When I started finding myself in rooms
[19:09]with other people who used their words to move the world
[19:14]or journalists from BBC and entertainment weekly.
[19:18]And here I am is awesomely loving the same room.
[19:20]My colleague was like, your words got you here.
[19:23]You are a writer.
[19:24]And again, back to the fear of it all,
[19:26]the thing that I was afraid of that was like,
[19:28]how do I make a real living as a writer?
[19:30]How do I, you know, chart a path that's solid as a writer?
[19:35]All those things got moved out the way.
[19:37]It was like, all my questions got answered.
[19:38]Once I finally said, I'm a writer.
[19:40]It was like the universe was like,
[19:42]I've been waiting for you to claim this
[19:44]because I have things for you.
[19:46]I got columns and magazines.
[19:48]I got my book deal like three years later, my first book deal.
[19:51]And yeah, like I basically spent so much time
[19:54]not honoring my gifts because I was afraid
[19:56]of how big it could be.
[19:57]And it was another moment where I was like,
[20:00]my goodness. What happens when I actually don't let fear be the first factor in my decisions?
[20:05]What happens when I say, yes, I am afraid of that title. It does feel too big, but I'm still
[20:09]gonna wear. It's like a coat. It's like an oversized coat that somebody gives you when you're
[20:13]fine. You grow into it. But here's the thing though, you think it's oversized, but it actually
[20:17]fits you perfectly. And yeah, I'm a writer. It's amazing. I love that. Wow. So, lovey, when you're
[20:25]not off inspiring everybody, right? You have such a way of talking and inspiring and motivating
[20:31]and encouraging and all this with the way you speak. Do you have just normal conversations
[20:37]with friends or what is it when you're not? Or is this your on, but then when you're off,
[20:43]you don't? Tell me about the difference between when you're on stage, lovey, and you're in your pajamas
[20:50]love me. There's no difference. I talked to my friends just like this. Me and my friends have
[20:54]conversations just like this. I just actually had one of my really good friends, unique Jones Gibson.
[20:59]Every time we talk to each other, we get off the phone like, man, you just got me together.
[21:04]Like, these are the conversations that we have with each other about like vulnerability and fear,
[21:10]and like we'll call each other in the moments when we are feeling afraid of something. Like,
[21:14]I just got this crazy offer. And we'll be like, okay, so why not you? Why would you not be the one
[21:19]that they're asking? Come on, you've been here before. We talked to each other like this because
[21:23]it's not like, we're like, I'm going to inspire people. No, it's like, I'm going to show up in a
[21:28]way that is as true to me as possible. These types of conversations aren't foreign to me because
[21:34]I have friends who actively push themselves and me to be bigger and better. Like, my friends
[21:43]gas me up in ways where I'm like, if I am feeling somehow week that day or I'm like, I don't
[21:50]have the power that I usually have. I know I can go to them to loan me courage. They will be like,
[21:55]absolutely, you got this. Stop playing. You got this. And that's what I actually hope I serve
[22:02]to other people. There are a lot of people who will ask me and my friends like, how did you guys
[22:06]build this squad that does this? And I was like, we just, this is who we are. So we attracted other
[22:11]people like that. And that's what I'm hoping I am. And that's what I'm hoping professional
[22:16]troublemaker is. I want that to be the book that you pick up in the moments when you're like,
[22:20]I'm not so sure about this. I want this book to tell you, you got this. You got this. No, no,
[22:24]no, no, don't doubt it. I know you're afraid of it. That's fine, but I want you to push forward
[22:28]anyway. So yeah, I want this book to be the squad for other people who don't have it. And even
[22:33]for those of us who do have it to serve as an affirmation that you can pick up at any point,
[22:37]open in each, any chapter, any page, and you'll find something that compels you to move
[22:43]and act different or act in a way that will lead you to higher ground. Wow, you're amazing.
[22:49]I wish I was on your friend's list. Regular dose of encouragement. That's amazing.
[22:56]So what do you have coming next? You have this book coming out. You must have like,
[23:01]you're going to like take over the world. What's like your big dream? Do you have a big dream?
[23:06]Let me tell you, I have an audacious dream because of this book because I said in this book,
[23:10]I need everybody to dream audaciously. So I'm also dreaming audaciously here. I'm on a mission
[23:15]to empower a million people to conquer their fear, a million because what happens when a million
[23:22]people decide, I'm going to do the things that feels hard that I'm compelled to do because
[23:29]I know I'm supposed to do it, even though they might be difficult. Like what happens? Like,
[23:33]imagine what would change if a million people ask for a raise when they weren't going to before.
[23:38]For a million people decided to have a tough conversation with a friend that could shift their
[23:42]relationship for the better. For a million people decided, you know what? I'm going to commit
[23:48]to constantly doing what scares me that I feel compelled to do. So that is my dream. Like,
[23:54]I want by the end of this year, for me to have gotten a million emails from people who are like,
[23:59]I read this book. It changed my life. Here's how. And Zibi, I'll tell you, I already got one.
[24:07]I'm looking forward to your emails. My editor was promoted to editorial director of Penguin
[24:14]in Viking books after reading my book and asking her boss for a raise. And her assistant
[24:20]was also promoted to editor because she was promoted and she was like, that's because of your book.
[24:25]I am looking forward to a million of those stories from people who read this book.
[24:30]So that's my mission. That's my big mission. Are you going to put it up somewhere? You need to
[24:34]keep like a list on your website. We're going to start tracking it. We're going to start
[24:39]tracking it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to, we're, I'm talking to my team now. Like,
[24:43]how do we track these stories? How do we make sure people can skin like ride us and tell us their
[24:48]fear fighter story? So we're going to be tracking it on the website. We will announce it on my
[24:52]newsletter. And on my blog, when it's ready, it's going to be ready before March 2nd. So if anybody's
[24:58]listened to this at the March 2nd, just go to professionaltroublemaker book.com. You'll have the
[25:04]information there wherever we're going to send people to do this. But I that is my, that is my
[25:08]audacious mission for myself and for everybody. Well, you should take it even further because
[25:15]all those people who are going to get over their fears and do something, they all need to like
[25:20]write about it. So you're actually, you could create like a million essays or like a million books
[25:26]that come out of these a million changes. Right. It could be a whole thing. Yeah. It's not wrong.
[25:31]You need like a loving, loving inspired, like little badge or something. Right. Like, and then
[25:37]I don't know. There's, I think there's like more like direct things that can come out. You know,
[25:43]we could do this. And so I'm going to think about that some more because I'm like, yeah, this
[25:47]I am so committed to this. And I, when I said the million number, it scared me. I was instantly like,
[25:53]oh, God, that's a huge number. And I'm like, you know what, why not? The best case scenario is a
[25:58]million people actually ended up conquering their fears and doing amazing things in the world.
[26:03]The worst case scenario is, there is no worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is like
[26:08]zero or like one person. And how great. And I already have one. You already have one.
[26:13]I already have one. So done and done. Well, I read your book recently, but I'm going to do
[26:19]something I'm scared of because of it. So I'm going to add my story at some point. I'm just
[26:22]gearing up. I believe it. I'm going to be looking for your story. I'm going to be looking to find
[26:28]out what you did. Okay. Yes. All right. I have a lot to choose from. I'm scared. Well, you know what?
[26:35]So this might actually, we're actually doing the fear fighter challenge to like get us started.
[26:40]So if you go to fear fighter challenge.com, you can sign up. You get a prompt every single day
[26:45]that will give you a call to action. That's going to push you forward, right? Like, and I think the
[26:51]first days prompt was write it down, write down this thing that you fear. So you can join the challenge
[26:57]now. Okay. And it'll get you started and get you kind of, okay, understanding the different things
[27:04]you can do to kind of get you closer and getting you some help on conquering this fear. So,
[27:09]yeah, join the fear fighter challenge. Love it. All right. Love me. I'm in. You've sold me.
[27:16]I'm on board. Let's do it. Like, I want to, I want a generation of professional troublemakers.
[27:21]Yes. Right. We are all existing knowing that our jobs is to make this world better than we
[27:28]found it. If we actually all commit to that, it will be better because so many of us will be trying
[27:34]our best to make sure we're elevating rooms that were in that we're speaking thoughtful truths
[27:39]and that we are modeling what it looks like to to be courageous. So do you have any advice,
[27:46]I could probably guess what some of it would be, but do you have any advice to aspiring authors?
[27:51]Right. Start writing now. Authors are writers. First, before you can say you're an author,
[27:56]you have to say you're a writer. So, start writing. Put your story on paper. And if you don't
[28:01]think your story is extraordinary. I need you to understand that most people who write stories aren't
[28:06]extraordinary people. They happen to just put their ordinary experiences on paper and somebody will
[28:12]connect to it. So, write it down. Your story, your life is worth hearing about. Fantastic.
[28:21]Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on mom's time to read books. Thank you for helping
[28:26]a million people, TV people, whoever they are out there, they don't know, they don't know their
[28:30]lives about to change. But yes, you know, and that's a pretty amazing thing. Yes, so they'll pick up
[28:36]professional troublemaker. And the cool thing is you get to know that you are actually joining
[28:42]hundreds of thousands of people at any given time in fighting your fear. You're not by yourself.
[28:47]And I invite people to join my social platform, love nation, because in there, every day,
[28:53]people are sharing each other on and saying, here's what my fear is. And here's how I do
[28:57]to conquer it. So, just know you're not by yourself. I got you, right? I build the spaces and I write
[29:03]the books that I need. So, in this journey of fear fighting, the million people don't have to do
[29:07]by themselves. And they're coming into love nation, join the fear fighter challenge. And let's
[29:12]cheer you up. Like, we are the gas up squad. We're the hype team. Wow. I am so impressed.
[29:19]I'm totally impressed. And I'm so glad I got to talk to you. So, thank you so much.
[29:23]Thank you very much. All right. Have a great day. You too. All right. Bye, lovey. Bye.
[29:30]Thanks again to Wine, Women, and Words the Podcast for sponsoring this episode.
[29:35]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[29:39]follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign
[29:44]up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[29:49]on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[29:54]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.