Tracey Cox, GREAT SEX STARTS AT 50
[0:01]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:34]Okay, now back to this amazing podcast.
[0:38]I had so much fun talking to Tracy Cox, who wrote great sex starts at 50,
[0:44]age-proof, ear libido, and transform your sex life.
[0:47]In fact, we had so much fun talking that I have asked Tracy to host a podcast for me,
[0:52]called Momstone Have Time to Have Sex, which we're going to launch in May.
[0:55]And it's going to be really funny and awesome, and she's going to answer some Q&A anonymous
[1:01]questions like Dear Abby, and it's going to be once a week, and really awesome.
[1:05]And you'll see, after listening to this, how completely engaging and amazing Tracy is.
[1:10]Here's her bio. Tracy has an academic background in psychology and has hosted several TV
[1:15]series, both in the UK and the US. And her books are available in 140 countries,
[1:21]and have been translated it into over 20 languages. She has written 17 books,
[1:25]which include the bestsellers, hot sex, and super sex.
[1:28]Her latest book, Great Sex, starts at 50. Tracy has appeared on Oprah, CNN, and the today show
[1:34]in the US, as well as many primetime news and chat shows worldwide. She has a weekly column with
[1:39]the mail online from the Daily Mail, the world's largest English-speaking news website. Her TV shows
[1:45]include the popular primetime series, Would Like to Meet, from the BBC and Discovery,
[1:50]and The Sex Inspectors, Channel 4 and HVM. She also has two product ranges developed with
[1:55]Love Honey, Edge, and Super Sex. Welcome, Tracy. Thank you so much for coming,
[2:00]and moms don't have time to read books. In my pleasure, I'm so excited to be here.
[2:04]So Tracy, I have to tell you, when I read your book about having Great Sex after age 50,
[2:10]I read it on my laptop, on my laps, surrounded by the kids as they were doing all of their random
[2:15]things. And my husband was sitting on the couch on the other side of the couch.
[2:19]And all the headers of the different sections. And all of a sudden, he's like,
[2:26]Honey, what are you reading over there?
[2:32]I noticed that you haven't had any other sex people on here.
[2:36]I know, and honestly, I am sort of prudish when I come to talking about this stuff,
[2:41]but I'm excited because you have such great advice on so many things, and not just the sex,
[2:46]but just relationships in general, and so much great stuff in your book. And of course,
[2:50]you are like, Dr. Ruth of our time, basically. So first of all, you've been writing about sex forever,
[2:58]and you had a number one ridiculously successful bestseller, like, wrote the book on sex,
[3:03]what, 20, 30 years, 30 years ago, something? Yeah. So what was that? Yeah, about 20 years ago.
[3:09]How did you get started writing about how to have better sex? Well, it's sort of my default video.
[3:15]I had a big sister who went to family planning. So I think, and when other kids were like being told,
[3:20]you know, to all the little kids stuff, I was, she was like pushing pamphlets under my door
[3:24]of how to cope with herpes and how to put on a condom. And it was just bizarre. And all the kids
[3:29]at my school, of course, had had very quickly that I had a big sister who could answer sex questions.
[3:34]So I would be a bit like Otis in sex education. I've been running backwards and forwards
[3:39]between my sister and I, and I swear that's what's made me so unembarrassed talk about sex.
[3:44]And then my parents split up. My dad had an affair and left my mum when she, when I was 15,
[3:51]and I think I became very fascinated with the forces of love and sex. So I went on, I'd love,
[3:57]but I love writing. So I didn't quite know which way to go. I was like, do I become a psychologist?
[4:01]Do I become a writer? And then I writing one, because I've always loved writing. And so I ended
[4:07]up becoming a writer who specialized in sex. So that's sort of my thing. I think I was one of the first
[4:14]few people to be called, or one of the first people to be called a sex bet. And my age
[4:19]was like, I hate that term. I hate that term. And I was like, if you don't have to live with it,
[4:22]it sounds like I lie around practicing having sex all the time. I've been climbing models or
[4:28]something. I don't know. Very odd term. Oh my gosh. Well, are you embarrassed at all by it?
[4:34]Like do people ask you about your own personal sex stuff all the time they must?
[4:39]They do. They do all the time. But I mean, I've had 30 years practice with it now. So I don't
[4:44]and there's very, I mean, I can talk about sex without any embarrassment at all. But what I
[4:49]don't like and which is people seem to go together is I hate vulgarity. I don't like people
[4:55]to use the correct term like penis and vagina. I don't like slang. And so that offends me. But
[5:01]nothing else offends me or embarrasses me. And I have heard a lot of things for a lot of people,
[5:06]including a nun who wrote to me once about that she left the nunnery and was having trouble
[5:11]having sex. And it was like, oh my god, I'm clearly going to hell for helping her with this.
[5:17]So I've heard all sorts of things. But yeah, I'm the person at the dinner party that people either
[5:22]want to sit next to or try and get as far away as they possibly can from out.
[5:27]Is that sort of reaction? And I love that you've written this manual for people over 50 and over
[5:34]because there's this big sort of question mark. I mean, when I was really young, I was like,
[5:37]well, I'm sure people would stop having sex at some point. I mean, I didn't know. I mean,
[5:41]I'm like, I just, I can't imagine grandparents have sex. You know, and now that I'm like in my mid 40s,
[5:46]I'm like, I don't know about that. I don't like, oh, what does that mean? So great. Because you
[5:52]first of all, you acknowledge the hurdles, right, physical hurdles that might present themselves.
[5:58]And you're so funny too. Like, oh my gosh, like, how to do certain things. And you're like,
[6:06]if his knees are hurting, you know, might be sure I get in this position. I'm like, oh my god,
[6:12]hilarious. You know, because it's like, as you age everything starts hurting in different ways.
[6:17]So you fully acknowledge that. My gosh. I know, but it was hard not to make jokes along the way
[6:23]every single turn. But yeah, so I try to make it kind of like a best friend who knew a lot about
[6:29]sex by your side. That was the intention of the book. And it's not the sort of book that you would
[6:33]recover to cover. I mean, you can. But it's more like, oh, I'm having issues with this. So
[6:37]I'm going to read this bit and I'm having issues with that. But part of the reason for writing it
[6:40]was selfish because I after, you know, this is my 17th book about sex, and you believe it. And
[6:47]after all these books, I thought, well, nothing's going to happen to me. I'll be sailing through
[6:51]this menopause and I won't have a libido problem. But I did. And so part of the motivation
[6:56]for writing the book was to fix myself with it. Because my desire, I used to have a really high
[7:02]libido and post menopause and 2050. It just, it wasn't that I lost it. It was that I kind of
[7:09]forgot about sex. And it was like, and it took me one. It was like, this is so strange. I used to
[7:15]think about sex all the time. And, you know, and have sex all the time. And all of a sudden,
[7:19]it just dwindled away. And of course, it's all hormones, of course. And it's all up here. It's
[7:25]all attitude. You've sat to rethink it and think, okay, so desire isn't like it is when your
[7:30]younger reaches taps you on the shoulder. You actually have to create arouse and you have to
[7:34]rouse yourself. And I think if you can get your head around that bit, you're, you know, ahead of the
[7:39]game, baby. That's the true secret, I think, of, you know, having great sex in the second part of
[7:44]you life. And of course, it does get better. It can get much better than the first half.
[7:48]A lot of people talk about like makeup plan for it, right? Like put it on the calendar. And you were
[7:53]saying people think that when they were younger, they didn't plan for it. But then you point out,
[7:57]you did plan for it. You like got nice lingerie, and you like got linen sheets, and you made it
[8:01]all, you had a plan. You just didn't plan it in the same way. And you were looking forward to it.
[8:06]Right? Yeah, exactly. They're supposed to like don't put it on for drudgery's sake, you know,
[8:12]right? No. And I think, I think you can't just have sex in the calendar. You have to,
[8:17]I mean, the good thing to do is to take turns in, okay, all right, it's your turn this week to think
[8:20]of something new to try. So each of you has to come up with a new thing. Because otherwise,
[8:24]then it is just the tool that you're crossing off. But I think it's hilarious that people
[8:29]hate it when you say plan sex or schedule sex. And yet in every area of our life, we do that.
[8:35]You know, if you're going to go to a restaurant, you've researched restaurant, you look at the menu,
[8:38]you think about, you know, how you're going to get there, what you're going to wear,
[8:41]you know, in the old days when you could go to restaurants, of course. But it's, and yet people
[8:46]hate it when you apply it to sex. And I think it's because we have this weird thing about sex
[8:51]that we think that we're born knowing everything, that, you know, you're not a people who
[8:54]say to me, oh, well, it's if I'd need to read your book. And the people who say that, I feel like
[8:59]saying, I think you probably do need to read my book because you're the person that thinks that
[9:04]you'll just born a mind reader and probably never ask your partner what they like or don't like.
[9:08]So it's really funny. And the other thing that really annoys me is that people think of sex as
[9:13]intercourse. And this is why sex can get better as your older because sex becomes less focused on
[9:21]his penis being the star. It becomes less penetration focus because, you know, we're not
[9:26]to find sex painful in his erections become a bit wobbly. So it moves away from that intercourse
[9:31]is the main event. And of course it isn't the most women because only 20% of women have an orgasm
[9:36]through penetration anyway. And it moves into more, you know, touch-based, slower, more erotic
[9:43]sex. And that works better for both men and women, actually. And does that count? You think,
[9:49]like, does that count as every sex? Do you think that counts? Yes. You don't have salon sex,
[9:54]like, like, does it still count? Do you know what I mean? This is exactly the sort of
[10:00]to tune. I'm trying to get rid of. Listen, sex doesn't have to other beginning, a middle,
[10:05]and an end. A sex can be. I always say to people, think about a sexual encounter. Don't think
[10:10]about how many times you have sex. Think about a sexual encounter. So if you give your husband
[10:15]a big passionate snog on the way, you know, before he goes to work, that's a sexual encounter.
[10:21]That sex. Sex isn't intercourse. No, no, no. It's not. It really isn't. And I think,
[10:27]particularly as you get older, the more you can move away from that type of thinking.
[10:31]And of course it counts. Say you're getting an orgasm through oral sex. Is that all
[10:34]causing, guess I'm not count because you had it through oral sex? Of course it does.
[10:38]I'm not. You're the expert. I think, even if it doesn't result in an orgasm, I think
[10:45]any type of sexual and erotic encounter counts as sex. That's what I would describe as sex.
[10:50]Okay. You also talk in the book about how some couples
[10:57]become so sibling like over time that they've been together forever, that it's hard to like get
[11:02]out of the rut. And that makes, you know, what happens when you sort of lose that drive? Tell me
[11:06]about that. That's a very common problem for any age. I mean, depending on, it's just a long-term
[11:12]couple problem, isn't it, in that we're not meant to be together in, you know, stay together
[11:16]forever in every month with each other's clothes off. And the problem is, is that we think of love
[11:21]and sex as being, you know, very happy bed follows. And they're not. They actually hate each other.
[11:26]What we need for love and what we need for sex are two completely different things. Like,
[11:30]love-like security, contentment, predictability, routine because it makes us feel safe.
[11:36]Last needs, you know, forbidden erotic anxiety, you know, do they love me? Don't they love me?
[11:43]Oh my God, they're just touching me for the first time. It likes uniqueness and you know, so
[11:46]the two things, you know, we can't have them coexisting in our brain, really. So what happens is,
[11:53]most couples, because we don't have sex all the time, choose to let the, you know, most of us want
[11:58]the love elements, don't we? We don't really want anxiety, not edginess and all that sort of stuff.
[12:02]So effectively, this cancels out the sort of lusty desire hormones in our brain. The loved ones
[12:08]cancel out the sexy ones. So then you have the situation where you're feeling like friends,
[12:13]and again, you've got novelty, you've been had sex 100 million times before with the same body,
[12:18]usually the same way. So of course, you're not, you know, like, champion it a bit to have sex with
[12:22]each other. So I think the mistake that people make is that they, they then think, it must mean
[12:28]I'm not in love with my partner anymore. But it doesn't mean that it just means that again,
[12:32]you have to look at sex differently. You're not going to look at each other like you did at the
[12:36]start and want to rip each other's clothes off apparently, no reason other than it's Sunday morning,
[12:41]you have to create desire for each other. And this is when, you know, the other thing that people
[12:45]hate is you have to make an effort. And that means planning new things to do, making sure you try
[12:51]new things all the time that you, you know, have a really interesting life together. And the
[12:56]other thing I think that really puts the zap back into your relationship is so many couples
[13:01]only ever hang out at home, like all go out together. And there's something really good about
[13:06]seeing your partner through other people's eyes. Like, I remember seeing my husband would
[13:11]to be husband walking through a restaurant. And I think he's good looking and I was watching him
[13:16]and all these girls were looking at him. He's when we were looking at him. And I was like,
[13:19]oh my god, what are they doing? And I hated it. But it made me aware like, wow, this is an attractive
[13:26]man. It's not just my miles. He's an attractive man attractive to other people. So it can sort of
[13:31]slip you out of that. Oh, there's, you know, miles he takes rubbish out sort of thing. And
[13:35]in that nice warm, soapy sort of cuddly sort of dopamine feeling. And back into that, actually,
[13:42]you know, if I don't have hot sex with him, somebody else might. So you have to look at your
[13:47]partner through other people's eyes. I think to get yourself out of that. And it's the hardest
[13:51]question. It's the hardest thing to fix. So there are lots of other suggestions in the book.
[13:55]There's no one simple answer at all. And then in case it all fails, you also have a whole section
[14:00]on what to do if your partner, she's done, you know, like what to do when you like get over
[14:04]adultery. And like, you know, if you, what if your eyes are wandering? Tell me a little more about
[14:09]that. Well, I thought if I didn't include that because one thing, I mean, for this book, I did,
[14:13]you know, research, but also I did hundreds and hundreds of interviews with women, anything from
[14:17]45 to 80. And they were fascinating. I mean, one woman had had her first August and at 45,
[14:23]another one had her first August and at 17. And she was in her 70s with the same person. And having
[14:29]thinking the sex life, like she's having sex about four times a week. And I felt really ashamed of
[14:34]myself after talking to her. I've lost my train of thought now. What was I saying? Oh, the affairs,
[14:39]but there was a whole lot of people now, I don't know whether it was bit biased because I
[14:43]suppose these people are going to want to talk to me, but there was a whole group of women who got
[14:48]to 50 and thought, right, I've had my kids in this relationship that I haven't particularly wanted
[14:54]to be in for a long time, but I've stayed for the kids. I'm leaving now and I'm going to go out there
[14:57]and I'm going to do all the things I've always wanted to do. And lots of those things include
[15:02]adventurous sex and they are having the best sex ever. But I just thought to myself, right,
[15:08]if this is happening, it's obviously happening. It happens on both sides as well. It's men leaving
[15:12]their wives and, you know, to regardless of sexuality. People just leave each other once you hit half
[15:17]a decade, half a century because it's a time of reflection. So I thought I'd better put in some
[15:22]advice there for people who, yeah, decide, you know what, I've had enough on out of here and I'm
[15:27]going to look after me. Oh my gosh. Or what to do if you're the one that's left on the floor.
[15:31]Yeah. All for. Wow. And then you also include all of these physiological benefits. Like in case
[15:37]you're avoiding sex, here are the reasons why you shouldn't be avoiding it anymore because there
[15:41]are so many benefits and it's not just closeness to your partner. So can you talk a little bit
[15:45]about some of the ancillary benefits you get? Well, I mean, physically, I had no idea how just how much
[15:53]sex does booster, it be sure immune system. I think men who have regular orgasms over the age of
[15:58]45 are twice less likely to die of a heart attack than men who don't. I mean, orgasms are incredibly
[16:06]good for you. Sex is incredibly good for you. It's just this process that seems to set off
[16:11]the production of so many hormones, like dopamine, serotonin, endorphins that do wonderful things
[16:18]for your body. And of course, there is nothing like sex to promote the emotional closeness that
[16:23]you feel with your partner. And I mean, the other thing that I think you've probably got from the
[16:27]book is that desire isn't the only motivation to have sex with your partner. There are other
[16:32]things like sexual generosity. I mean, if your partner says I want to go for a walk and you don't
[16:36]want to go for a walk, sometimes you just go for a walk. You know, it's a lot of, I think we get
[16:41]very hung up on this, but I'm not going to have sexless. I absolutely feel like it. And then
[16:45]he's got to feel like her or she or whoever you're sleeping with. And that happens quite rare.
[16:50]You can't always have these perfect conditions for sex. So I think there are other benefits to
[16:55]having sex like, you know, just having a laugh, feeling close after it, feeling like, you know,
[17:00]that and the thing about sex is even if it's really just boring sex, it still feels nice.
[17:07]There's something nice about sex with your partner and whether that be a long-term partner or a short-term
[17:12]partner. I mean, sex is pretty amazing. And if you don't have sex for a while, you forget about
[17:17]how good sex can be. And that's what happens to couples long-term or over the age of 50 women,
[17:22]particularly when men struggle with erections, women struggle with menopausal symptoms. And it
[17:26]can be a bit like, oh, God, this is too hard now. And then it's one month, guys, past two months,
[17:31]goes past, you know, and suddenly you realize you have another sex for a year. And it becomes
[17:35]the big elephant in the room. And suddenly, if you aren't used to talk about sex or you feel
[17:40]embarrassed talking about sex, you never talk about it. And it just quietly gets never
[17:45]talking again without even a conversation. And that was another thing you added, which was really
[17:49]helpful, was like, how to talk to your partner about all of this and how to have a nice conversation.
[17:55]And how do you bring it up if you're not used to discussing it? What are some tips there? Like,
[17:59]and you even have, you have the funniest list of what you shouldn't say to your partner.
[18:05]Oh my gosh, I should have printed it out. Like, all these things, like, this is not going to
[18:10]help your sex life, if you say like, this is terrible. Oh my gosh, you're so funny.
[18:15]I think you'll think I'm an intentionally funny at times. I think people are really often,
[18:20]because people aren't that good about talking about sex. I mean, we are at the beginning. We
[18:23]talk about nothing else but how great we are, how hot we are, aren't we hot and bed. And then the
[18:26]minute things go wrong, that's where we shut up. But I think people blurt out all sorts of things,
[18:31]like, you know, I hate it when you do that. Or, you know, well, my ex used to do it like this.
[18:35]Can I tell you how he did it? Well, that's not going to get you far, is it? You always have to start
[18:40]with a compliment. So the biggest trick is to say, I love it when you do X, but, you know,
[18:46]could you do more of Y? So it's like a sandwich. You have a compliment, what you want to say in
[18:51]the middle, and then another compliment at the end. And the thing is, if you think, you know,
[18:56]I did a TV show where we had to get people talking about sex. And couples were so
[19:00]paranoid about it. And once they had that first conversation, that first few seconds of uncomfortable
[19:08]ness of, could we talk about our sex life? I love you. And I really want us both to be happy.
[19:13]And let's talk about our sex life to make it as good as we possibly can be. Once you've even said that
[19:18]much, the worst is over. You've said the word sex to your partner. Can we talk? And then every
[19:23]single couple without fail said, oh my God, if I'd known it was this easy, we would have done it
[19:28]years ago and how much easier is it when you can just talk openly and honestly to your partner
[19:32]about sex. That's how you get through the aging thing when you can say, oh my God, this is happening
[19:37]to me. What's happening to you? Yeah, this is happening to me. It's couples who get all funny about,
[19:42]you know, it'll talk about aging and every other sense, but they won't talk about aging of the
[19:46]genitals or anything like that. So it's just, once you start, yes, there will be that little bit
[19:52]of awkwardness. But once you keep going, it just goes so fast. And there are lots of sex
[19:57]conversation starters in there. So you can have a little script bit.
[20:00]Another thing, if you want to try something new, I always think the best thing to do is to wake up
[20:05]in the morning, you go, oh my god, I just had this most amazing dream that we were doing
[20:09]X. And then you'll pop out, we'll either go, what? Oh, that sounds awful. Or you pervert,
[20:16]or, you know, something, or they'll go, oh, that sounds interesting. So it's a very easy way
[20:22]to suss out whether they're interested in doing something else.
[20:24]Wow. So, Tracy, so what else are you doing?
[20:28]Are you on a TV show now? I know you've done like your bio is so long, you've done a
[20:32]million things already. What else do you have this book coming out?
[20:34]At the moment, I'm not on TV. No, by my choice, actually, because I feel like I've done all that.
[20:39]And do you know what it's really hard working with real life couples and traits
[20:41]about the countryside? I feel like I'm a bit over that now. So I do two sex toy ranges with love
[20:46]honey. I do books. I do my blog. And I do, I don't know, I seem to spend my life doing publicity,
[20:52]or just talk about sex on different, different medians. So I keep thinking it's going to come
[20:57]down soon, but it hasn't. I don't really want it to come down. So I think the next thing is because
[21:02]of lockdown, we haven't been able to redesign any new toys. So that would be my next thing.
[21:06]We'll be to redesign the ranges. And that's fun coming up with sex toys.
[21:10]Wow. That's great for my gosh. This is so funny. This is twice in one week because
[21:13]I just interviewed another author who's written this literary fiction that's called Good
[21:18]Company Coming Out Cynthia Sweeney. And I was researching her. She wrote the nest. And she wrote
[21:24]a whole article about sex toys in New York Times, which was like kicked off her career. So like,
[21:29]that was yesterday. And now I'm talking to you. I don't know what's going on. I feel like
[21:33]I don't know. Maybe the gods are talking to you or something. It's pretty funny.
[21:38]God said that was when did she write the article? Like 100 years ago. Like 20 years.
[21:42]Oh, I see. I see. I think it was like 2007 or something like that. But I happened to have read
[21:47]and kicked off her career and all the rest. Oh my gosh, so funny.
[21:50]Oh, good. Wow. So aside from doing publicity, like, where do you see this going? Do you want to
[21:55]help more people with books? Or do you like, because I am the reason I'm asking in part is I have
[22:02]these anthologies. And in my first anthology, I had a whole section called Moms don't have time to have
[22:06]sex. And I had a bunch of people write essays about it. But then I like have let it go since then.
[22:11]And I keep thinking like, I have to bring this back because so many people were like flipping
[22:15]to that section and being like, what did they say in there? And I want to figure out a way to like
[22:19]make this a more accessible topic because this is something, you know, girlfriends can
[22:24]find to each other. But a lot of them don't talk with me enough. And it does cause so much
[22:27]destruction. And then the next thing you know, you know, your whole life is anyway, so.
[22:33]So I think, yeah, I think, yeah, books are very important, right? I mean, any media,
[22:38]I think books and podcasts, I think podcasts are an excellent way actually to talk about sex,
[22:42]because sometimes like you said, you're reading your book on a reader or your laptop,
[22:46]but you still got the husband looking over your shoulder or whatever. So if you are embarrassed,
[22:50]you can have earphones in and no one's going to listen, you know, no one can hear what you're
[22:55]hearing. So it might be if people are really embarrassed that podcasts is the way to go.
[22:59]But I think, yeah, we just all need to, it's quite interesting, you know, because I think the
[23:03]world divides it to some people that I talked to, I said, do you talk to your partner about sex?
[23:07]And they're like, you have course I do. And others like, well, of course I don't. And it seems
[23:12]to be the great divide about couples who are just incredibly open, especially younger generation.
[23:18]And then people post 40, I suppose, I think you get a lot less people talking about sex.
[23:25]And it's a shame, because it is the only way that you ever go, you're never going to get
[23:28]through your whole life with somebody if you intend to stay with them or even two years on,
[23:33]unless you can talk through your sex problems, you will not make it interesting.
[23:37]Well, I feel like now you should host moms don't have time to have sex.
[23:41]Well, maybe I'm not even kidding. I feel like we should talk after this and
[23:44]I should like, you should do a podcast for me or something. I don't know.
[23:48]Yeah, I'd love to. I don't have your own podcast.
[23:51]No, I don't. And the reason why I was going to start up a podcast and then when I started doing
[23:55]the publicity for the book, everybody's got a podcast and I thought, well,
[23:58]maybe there's not room for more. I don't know. But yeah, I would like to do a podcast and I'd
[24:03]love to do a podcast with you. So it is, it is interesting that, I mean, he's listening to
[24:07]all these podcasts. I'm going to do, it's so many of the fun. Yeah, everyone's listening to yours,
[24:12]but I mean, I don't know about the rest of it. It's so funny. I know it's crazy.
[24:16]It's not a bunch lately to promote my book. And I know there's so many podcasts and
[24:20]I am not really even that good at listening to podcasts because I feel like I record them all
[24:24]day long. I listen for like competitive reasons, right? Like research and things like that.
[24:29]Hello, you've been doing yours. I've been doing it for years.
[24:33]All right. Okay. So you came in at the beginning. And that's why you're successful for many reasons,
[24:38]but I think if you if you're like, I think the lockdown, everybody just decided to do a podcast.
[24:44]I mean, and it's just become the thing now, isn't it? Whereas yours as well as established and
[24:48]well, but it's not easy to do the podcast. You got to do it properly. I mean, God, I don't know how
[24:52]you've to interview me. I don't either. You're the world's busiest woman. I know I know I might
[24:59]inbox is become completely unmanageable. And I just like look at it sometimes and laugh.
[25:03]I think you just like have to have a sense of humor. I'm just like, yeah, I'm debating putting an
[25:08]auto reply being like, I cannot get all these. I don't give me a, I don't know. I'm getting there,
[25:12]but like it's not just me. It's like everyone I everybody is just overwhelmed in so many different
[25:17]ways. So but at least it's fun. I don't know. I just have to laugh because otherwise like,
[25:22]yeah, better too busy than not busy. That would be just awful. I agree. And I've been there,
[25:26]you know, I've been at home with my kids on the floor. I miss my brain. I bear. I never, I didn't have
[25:33]kids. I couldn't have kids, but I didn't know if I would have had them anyway, but I've got a little
[25:36]stepdaughter now. And just step parenting her is like, God, this is hard. I don't think I could have
[25:43]stayed at her. I don't think I could not have stayed at home with a baby. I think I would have been
[25:47]utterly useless. Oh, my God. I'm not patient enough. I'm not patient enough. I'm not patient enough.
[25:51]Do you have any advice to aspiring others? I think writing nonfiction is very different,
[25:57]the writing fiction. I had a stab at that. And I was absolutely rubbish. Nonfiction, you can,
[26:01]I think even if you're not feeling creative, get some words down on the page. Like, I'm sure
[26:05]fiction that's, it's easier to say for nonfiction than fiction because you can do your research,
[26:09]you can do interviews. But just, you know, writing's a muscle, you know, you just have to get
[26:14]used to sitting down and getting the words out every single day. I don't think I'll ever sat down
[26:19]at the thought, you know what? I can't write today. I've never had the luxury of that, actually.
[26:22]If you've got deadlines, you just have to meet them. So yeah, just sit down and write anything,
[26:26]just get yourself writing something. Yeah. It's like, give a busy person something to do.
[26:30]Same point. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yep. Awesome. Well, Tracy, this has been so much fun
[26:37]and also helpful on many levels. And the book was really awesome. And everyone should read it
[26:42]because it's really not just 50. I mean, I'm in my 40s. It's completely,
[26:47]all of it is completely relevant because so much of it is relationship advice. But of course,
[26:50]if they don't want that, you have like 8,000 other books you've written. So
[26:55]latter of sex books. So anyway, I'll be in touch because I really think that it would be really
[27:00]awesome if you did that podcast. I think people. Yeah, absolutely. I really want to listen. And,
[27:04]you know, it'd be better, as you said than my laptop in the, you know, in the game.
[27:10]It's looking like I did everything. So with the kids wandering in,
[27:13]why don't that to come? But thank you. This was really, really fun.
[27:16]Oh, thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Take care. Thanks. Okay, bye bye.
[27:22]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget to
[27:26]follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my
[27:32]newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every
[27:37]other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[27:41]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.