Amanda M. Fairbanks, THE LOST BOYS OF MONTAUK

[1:20]Zibby Owens: This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen vaccine research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write a New Publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. Amanda Fairbanks is the author of The Lost Boys of Montauk, a true story of the windblown, four men who vanished at sea and the survivors they left behind. Amanda and I actually did this podcast in person, one of my first in person podcasts since the pandemic. So we were very giddy to be talking to a real life human being for this podcast. Amanda is a journalist and author who has worked in the editorial department of the New York Times as a higher education reporter at HuffPost, and as a staff writer at the East Hampton Star. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, the Boston Globe, Newsweek, the Atlantic, and the San Francisco Chronicle among other publications. A graduate of Smith College and a former Teach for America core member, She has two master's degrees from Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism. In May 2021, Gallery is publishing this book. In fact, it came out two days ago. The California native lives in Sag Harbor, New York with her husband and two children. Welcome, Amanda. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books For having me. In person for the first time in a year and six months to talk about The Lost Boys of Montec. It is such a pleasure to be here, and I'm such a fan of yours. So thank you. Oh, I literally, like, devoured this book. And I as I was just saying to you, I wanted to, like, drive out and go see the memorial. And I went all over the Internet looking for pictures. And, like, this story alone and the way you told the story was just, like, so immersive and captivating. So tell everybody how you found the story, your connection at the start Of course. How it all evolved, and how this whole book became what it is. Absolutely. So I was I'm a long time newspaper and magazine writer.

[3:34]Amanda M. Fairbanks: And I've worked at the New York Times. I've worked at the Huffington Post. And we were living out here. We tried living here for a year sort of as an experiment year round to see if we could handle it. I had a new baby at the time. And I showed up at the Star offices late one summer afternoon. And David Rattray hired me as a staff writer. And one year turned to three and a half years at the Star. So I wrote feature stories and investigative stories and profiles. And I had never before worked at a small town newspaper before. I was sort of used to the anonymity of working for a large news organization and never having to run into sources the next day after school board meeting while I was getting my coffee, that type of thing. So this would have been the winter of twenty sixteen. A man by the name of Bittle Duke, who's now a close friend of mine, was newly hired as an editor. They had launched a magazine called East, and he was getting ready to sort of come up with what that was gonna look like. And we were brainstorming different story ideas when he started telling me the great untold story of the so called Hamptons. The star uses the Hamptons in quotes. I saw that. Which is kind of interesting. You have like a ban on it in the paper. It's a pretty much have to call it like Yeah. The East End or something. Yeah. Exactly. South Fork, East end. East end. So they're the right. Exactly. So Biddle starts going on and on about, you know, this fishing boat that went down the coast of Montauk in 1984 and these four young men who lost their lives. And during the same conversation, he started talking to me a lot about Mary Steadman, who was the widow of the young captain and who's now in her her early sixties. So he's going on and on, and and it's clear that this is not just any story that he's telling me about. There's a very personal sort of tone to it. And, you know, he sort of sits up taller and his eyes widen. And it was just unlike anything I had heard him speak of prior to that. And I said, well, why don't you wanna write it? You know, obviously, this seems like Mhmm. He's a summer kid and he had been here all of his life and, like, this seems like a natural fit for for you to do. And he's like, well, you know, this is a very personal story. And, you know, my wife is very close with one of the men actually that lost their lives on a boat and it would just create too much friction and it really needs an outsider to come in and sort of do it justice. So after that conversation, I was very intrigued and he put me in touch with Mary and that summer things sort of weren't aligning. And we I've actually moved to California with my family for two years that following fall. And Mary and I kept in kind of loose contact. And when I was back the following summer on a vacation, we had met for our first interview. She actually kept canceling, and I thought I would get on the plane and not have the interview. And, you know, I soon discovered sitting in the East Hampton Library for the first time, just this captivating, rich, complex, just fascinating woman. And little did I know at the time, I would spend the next few years of my life trying to understand her many different layers. And, you know, honestly, at that point, I still thought of it as a magazine story. You know, Mary and I, I flew back to the West Coast. We continued talking. She has a photographic memory. So I assumed, like, we would never not speak for two to four hour chunks at a time. We could spend a whole day on, you know, 03/27/1984 with just this intense, amazing amount of detail. And then as we as she started passing me along to, you know, five sources and five more sources after that, as tens of thousands of interview notes started to accumulate, I realized that it wasn't just a newspaper story or magazine story, but really the beginnings of a book. So toward the end of that year is when I wrote a book proposal, and then we sold it that that January 2018. Wow. But you hadn't written it then? I had not written it. So no. So for for most nonfiction, you have to write a proposal, which is a chapter and an outline. You probably know all this. I I do, but it's okay. It's okay. But most people don't. No. No. It's good to say. It's good to Sometimes, you might have. It's always good to I'm Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. So if you're a writer of fiction, obviously, you submit the whole manuscript. If you're selling nonfiction, you sell a proposal. And actually, at that I act I went back pretty recently and read the proposal, and that was just based on, you know, three months of reporting. And then I went to do a whole another year's year and a half's worth of reporting before I started writing. So that was, like, you know, a very minor layer of what the story would become, the the book that I saw. Like one piece of the book. There were, like, 18,000

[7:58]Zibby Owens: facts. I was sitting there being like, how did she even organize these or keep them all straight? And you talk about in the book the interviewing itself. I called this guy and he didn't answer the first two times and this is where I got this. And I was just I mean, the amount the volume of information is astounding. So just even to organize it seems like a huge feat. Yes.

[8:21]Amanda M. Fairbanks: Right? That is that is a keen observation. No. I mean, it it it practically broke my brain because I I hadn't written a book before. And, you know, even though I had written tons and tons of magazine profiles and what have you, I basically went and just gathered enough material, I think, for three or four books on this topic, to be totally honest. Mhmm. And the next book I do, I won't research and report, you know, till the ends of the earth, I hope, dear God. I've learned my lesson. But, I it was tricky to organize all of that information because it just went off in so many directions. It wasn't just these men. It was the history of the area. It was the tilefish they were catching. It was grief and trauma and loss. I had to kind of, journalists, as you know, become sort of mini experts on whatever they're working on. And so it I had to learn all of those things. Wow. And yet, you did it. I mean, because Yeah.

[9:12]Zibby Owens: You. No. It's true. Like, I literally, like, could not put this book down. I was, like, wandering around holding it. Like, you know, that's a good sign. I'm like, no. Really. It's so good. One of the things I really loved was the impact of the losses, like, not just emotionally, but even physically that it had on all the people. And obviously, for, like, generations down the line. But even something like Mary's hair turning white Yes. Immediately, and, like, how she dyes it blonde now or whatever. Who was it whose handwriting changed and his handwriting never went back to normal. All these things where you see it's not just your mind, it's literally everything like before and after. So just tell me a little more about, like, these long term changes in every way.

[9:54]Amanda M. Fairbanks: So that was what was so fascinating to me. So unlike you know, a lot of people will will say, oh, this is a perfect storm book. But but the drama in my book I mean, obviously, the the loss of these four men is is the major tragedy that occurred. But most of the time we spend in this book on land with the survivors and how it was that this thing that happened all those decades ago changed their lives forever. Right? So one of the fathers of the young crew members, his handwriting changed. His secretary noticed it and and shared it with his his second wife. You know, the young widow, you know, who was 29 years old when her husband died at sea with three young kids. Her hair turned like a bright white. All of these all of these ways in which I think grief and trauma and loss sort of change us fundamentally in large ways, in small ways, in ways sometimes we can't even really decipher and know at the time, that became a hugely fascinating piece of this reporting journey. Yeah. And even how some people just never recovered, like Kim, who had just been proposed to perhaps, we think, right before she her

[10:57]Zibby Owens: fianceboyfriend, passed away on the boat. Right? She just never got over it. You show like what happened to her and how she's like working at a laundromat now and got so into opiates and all this stuff. And like some people recover or seem to be able to pick up the threads of a normal life and then other people, it breaks them forever. And who knows which way you're gonna go? Absolutely.

[11:23]Amanda M. Fairbanks: I think that that was the the the piece for me was that this for for the residents that live here was sort of like their 09:11. Right? They knew where they were standing or where they were working when they first heard the news that this boat had gone down. Because back in the early eighties, this was a really small town where everyone knew one another. But you're right. I mean, you don't you don't know after that trauma which side you're gonna come out on. And and I I think actually, you know, for this year and a half, two years that I spent reporting and interviewing, and literally, it was just one conversation after another about really intense grief and loss and how each of these people sort of put themselves back together, some more successfully than others. But it really wasn't until like, honestly, I didn't know how to end the book. I don't wanna have any spoilers. But it wasn't until Oh, I yeah, went the until ending the of the book is so good. Oh my God. I was like anyway. It wasn't until the captain's eldest son really sort of let me in on his healing journey and how it was that he has pieced himself. And continue I'm not saying the work is done and he's like totally okay and no one's okay after losing your father at sea and not having that type of closure. You know, the human mind needs a body and a period at the end of a sentence. And when you don't have that, it creates this sort of insidious effect that some people dealt with, you know, better than others. I just I have a tremendous amount of empathy for everyone involved in this book. And was it is her name Jill, the mother of one of the who was never convinced that her son was dead? She went to to her yes. She died. She was like, could never believe it. Right. Right. She scoured the ends of the earth Yep. Flying, you know Putting missing posters. Putting missing posters and believing that, you know, the boat had been shipwrecked and they sort of went on and maybe her son was in South America. And, you know, she just couldn't wrap her mind around it. And, you know, as a mother, that just, you know, that broke me. Like, how that feeling of just of not knowing what happened to your child.

[13:23]Zibby Owens: Yeah. And then there was the whole, like, fishermen and Montauk community that, like, rallied behind Mary and rallied to, like, even the search and rescue that you talk about and, like, not giving up and raising funds to, like, keep going even when the coast guard gave up and, like, the commitment and loyalty, you know, and the fact that so many of the same community felt like maybe the boat wasn't really up to snuff, but what were they gonna do because, like, Mike had already bought the boat and, you know, now what are you supposed So to that also goes to, like, how much are you supposed to get involved in your friend's business? You know? Like right? I mean, it's, like, so much of what happens to a community. I don't know. Just Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to quints. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[16:18]Amanda M. Fairbanks: Yeah. Yeah. No. The Mon I mean, the what I have to say, I mean, there was not one fisherman with whom I either met in person or I picked up the phone and called who was not just incredibly gracious and wonderful and knowledgeable and, you know, didn't talk down to me even though initially I had no idea what longlining for tilefish meant. Just really incredible people. I mean, people who become fishermen are not doing it for the paycheck. I mean, they make a decent living, of course, but they're doing it because it's their passion and they love it. And it just, yeah, it came across time and time again that this was a real community of of men largely

[16:52]Zibby Owens: that, you know, would scour the ends of the earth to find their tribe. And it it also is like, you know, some families, like, my husband's family, like, they come from a family where everybody cooks. Right? Some people own restaurants. Some people do this. Like, cooks. Like, it's in their Oh, I love that. But I oh my gosh. This is why I'm like, my pants are all different size now. Thank you very much. But, yes, it's amazing as a per as a wife to have a as a perk. But, like, that's sort of in their family DNA. And in here, like, some of them had, like, seafaring men as part of their DNA. Right? Like, they come from, like, a line of fishermen. They like, that it seemed like so part of who they were. It's like be on the water, either like surfing or fishing or whatever. I don't know. It's like the most elemental things. Right? Like water. Water. Food. Right? It's like Right. And yet not everybody falls into one those categories.

[17:43]Amanda M. Fairbanks: No. And in some ways, they they all reminded me of kind of like the classic American male that's like attached to the natural world and idealistic and searching for their identity in in a real way. In a way that requires brute strength and real intelligence and paying attention to shifts and migratory patterns and all sorts of things that I'll never understand, to be quite honest. But I think that was really very much at the heart of why they all found themselves on that boat. You know, was was they were all really looking for something. And the relationships with their dads, of course, which she went into. Fascinating. And and a lot, you know, a lot of this book for me, even though it's, of course, a story of four men who lost their lives, but it's really also a story of these women that they left behind. And and I really could I still can't help thinking, you know, now that I live call live in Sag Harbor, which is a former whaling village, you know, for for hundreds of years, these men would go off to sea. And, obviously, they weren't text messaging or or sending notes home and some of them just never came home. And there would be years between their absences and these women were running households and children. So it's a long line of women that have lost their men, you think over the past few hundreds of years that go through this.

[18:56]Zibby Owens: It was just so interesting to to think of this sort of more modern day version of that. Even, like, all the signs that you've wrote about, like, all of the signs that, like, Mary got when, like Oh, these people who dreamed about something related to this before the big Mhmm. Like, shipwreck happened. I don't know, it's just all this premonition. And I feel like many times people must have commented to you, well, I know they did because you wrote that they did, how there was this witchy element to Mary, was really the central I feel like she's one of the central characters in the story, really.

[19:31]Amanda M. Fairbanks: What do you think about that? Do you think she was like, there was a witchiness? Did you get that vibe when you met with her? You know, I do. And I think people use witchy sometimes as sort of a put down. I mean it with deep reverence. Like, there there is something truly captivating and sort of otherworldly about her. And I think she possesses a very unique intelligence. And I do think looking back on the, you know Yeah. On the six months prior to her husband's passing that that the the signs were there. And, you know, even going back as to, you know, the moment that he saw this boat that he had to have, and she immediately knew that that that wasn't the right boat, and yet she couldn't dissuade him from that. Now she's so fascinating. I I think I'll never stop thinking about her and wondering about her as a as woman. Wait. You were saying you had, like, these hour conversations with her. I'm like, oh, I'm, like, jealous. Hours long. Yeah. I mean, maybe I'm not jealous for all the hours, but, like, I really wanted to like, after reading this, like, I wanna sit down with her and be like, oh my gosh. Like, what what was that like? And you got to do that. That's you know? I mean, sometimes I would literally be, like, in my office with the tape recorder on, like, lying on the floor by the end because it was so long and intense. And not that I wasn't interested. It was just like I almost had to, like, lie down as she was recounting this afternoon from, you know, almost forty years ago. It'd be so neat to release part of that as, like,

[20:53]Zibby Owens: podcast, limited podcast too. Or audio footage. Right? I would listen to that in two seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Just like little clips or something. I don't know. I don't know. Think about something to do with the footage. Wow. So the process of oh, wait. One more thing I Yes. Of course, please. There seemed like there was something going on with Dave that you kept referencing. And I wondered if maybe you figured out at all what it was at the end or if you got any more information or what your theory was? Because it seemed like towards the end of it like, right before this final voyage, he he had gone through a more difficult period. Like, what was that about?

[21:34]Amanda M. Fairbanks: So I'll never really know. And no no one that I interviewed knows for sure. But as, you know, at the end toward the end of the book, a bunch of different personal secrets are revealed. Mhmm. And this is sort of the PG version. There were many more secrets that came out in the reporting if you can believe it that didn't fit that are not in the book and that will never leave my computer. I also have a podcast called moms don't have time to sex. So we could we could migrate this conversation over there if that's what needs to happen. Absolutely. Count me in for that because I do think several of the women in this book were sort of pioneers for their time. Interesting. Okay. We could that that could be a separate podcast. Okay. Definitely count me in to talk about moms and sex. But, yeah, I do yeah. It's it's I I think that that toward the end of his life, Dave Konik was wrestling with a lot of different demons. And, you know, the fisherman's life is a hard life and a difficult life. And, yeah, I think he was reconciling this huge disappointment he had over the collapse of his parents' marriage. And then it was sort of intimated to me that he may have learned of this kind of core secret involving paternity at the core of the story. And that that kind of had shattered his world view, really involving the two people that he knew that were in love and happy and sort of had the appearances of wonderful marriage.

[22:50]Zibby Owens: Although, I'll I'll never really know all of the answers to that. But that was suggested to me by a number of people. I mean, I think that's also what's so haunting about it is, like, all the things we don't know. I mean, it seems like by the end, they had a pretty good theory of what happened to the boat and basically where it was and maybe even where it exactly is and what caused you know, they were so close after the end. Mean So close. So close to

[23:11]Amanda M. Fairbanks: ugh. But just two weeks ago, this this young shipwreck hunter calls me up and he, you know, is I don't know. He's in his early thirties or what have you. Swedish guy, you know, we're I'm I was driving back from the city and we're talking for a really long time about coordinates and, like, you know, he's he's also obsessed with the whole of the wind blown. And he's like, well, I think it could be here. And then maybe and then he sends me all these images and charts and all these things that I don't really understand. And I said, well, you know, he's like, so I wanna go out diving with my crew this summer. And I was like, well, I have to be on that boat. Like Totally. I mean, I'm not going down and, you know Yeah. To dive, but the the mystery of this story, you know, continues. And and I think that there would be a lot of closure to find, obviously, pieces of the boat turned up during the search, but but the actual vessel itself, I think, would would provide a tremendous amount of closure. Now I'm seeing this more like Titanic, you know, and, like, someone's on the boat and the divers go and, like, you're actually the killer. Amelia Earhart one as well. I didn't see that. Did I see that? I don't know. Oh, the Titanic. It's the same guy that found Titanic that's looking for Amelia Earhart's body or remains of her plane which they think went down. Yeah. But truly, I mean, it's and it's also just not that far from Montauk Point. Like, it's not like they went down hundreds of miles away. It's like 12 miles away. Right. They were like coming right in. And it was the most terrific storm.

[24:29]Zibby Owens: And it was really bad, horrible timing. And just the randomness of life. Right? Like, who knows? Oh my gosh. Yeah. So as the mom of two kids yourself, reading this story and so much about your reporting, not just this but that amazing article you just wrote about in the New York Times about and Stephanie how her husband, ex husband, had brutally murdered their kids and how you wrote about that and the water. I just feel all these themes and your words and like, Where are we going? It's time to lighten it up, as my husband No, would I know. It's great. It's great. I'm not sure I want to go swimming with you. They're like, Who knows what's gonna happen? Find into my polar plunge anytime. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll wear three life jackets. How do you feel about all of this loss around children and mothers? How does it make you feel about your own role in your family?

[25:30]Amanda M. Fairbanks: Well, I just think the mother is sort of the core of the unit. Right? Like, it's a lot of pressure to keep it all, all these balls in the air and keep it going. It was interesting. When I sold this book, one of the editors with whom we met, my agent and I, you know, we're sort of making small talk. And at the time, my daughter was two I had a two and a five year old. And she's like, well, this is that's ridiculous because you're never gonna have time to report and write this book. And she was perfectly nice and being kind of candid about it. And she was probably right. Maybe I shouldn't have under took such a complicated story, but I have always felt drawn to this story from the moment I heard about it. And I think increasingly I just want to do work that I feel connected to in a very personal way that does involve healing eventually. There's a lot of darkness, but there has to be some sliver of light that we keep going and that we're all I do think these stories help us to feel less alone. Do you know where that comes from in your own story? Well, I wouldn't say that I had the most idyllic childhood. I've done a lot of work on myself. And I think I'm just comfortable talking with people about this because I've now been doing it for so long. So for instance, it was such a natural fit in some ways to have done this book and then to have just randomly met Stephanie. And unlike people that aren't so comfortable talking about grief and loss, I'm totally comfortable now talking about it. And she could just tell it tell me her story without feeling like she needed to sugarcoat things or I was becoming uncomfortable or that type of thing. I think we all just wanna be listened to. Well, I'm listening. Do you wanna share anything else?

[27:10]Zibby Owens: I mean, I'm not revealing all of my deep dark skeletons on our in our first conversation.

[27:15]Amanda M. Fairbanks: I mean, what if it's not the moms who have sex podcast. Then we can get into, like, some really crazy stuff. Moms who don't have sex or moms who do have sex. Okay. I guess, well, I guess we'll find out then.

[27:28]Zibby Owens: Oh my gosh. Well, so what now? You just finished this massive project. Perhaps writing the screenplay. We'll see. Perhaps.

[27:36]Amanda M. Fairbanks: We'll see. I would like to try my hand at that, but we'll see. You know, I I recently had another sort of family story shared with me that has nothing to do with the sea. Okay. You'll be happy to know. There's literally no water involved in Okay. The entire Good to know. But it is sort of a I I think why I am endlessly fascinated by families and and, you know, histories and how how complicated all of our lives are. How there are so many layers that inevitably we just that are not revealed or that we can't talk about or we don't talk about or we're shamed into not talking about. And those sorts of stories really intrigued me. Wow. Well, I can't wait to

[28:18]Zibby Owens: see what you sort of set your tender hooks into next time to, like, really dissect even without the I feel like I should be using more fishing analogies or something. What advice do you have to aspiring authors aside perhaps from not choosing such a complicated topic? Although I would disagree with that because then you get a really you know, layered book and everything. What advice would I offer? Well, I would I would advise becoming very, very comfortable with the feeling of rejection.

[28:45]Amanda M. Fairbanks: I was listening to one of your podcasts earlier today. And, you know, I think all of us as writers, you sort of see the after effects of like, they've written here and they've have this byline there and they published a book. And behind that is a whole host of agents when I send them my proposal who didn't get back to me or who said this could never be a book. And you have to just keep going until you find your people that believe in you and stand behind you wholeheartedly and help you on that journey. So this book also went through several different drafts, as Jackie Cantor will attest, Painstaking drafts of how to structure it and in which order this information comes. And was a puzzle and it could still have been put together in a different sequence. So that was the really tricky part of it. Yeah. Yeah. You had your Mary section. It was like at the end. I know. Maybe I'll rewrite it for the paperback. No, just kidding. Just totally kidding. I will never look at this manuscript ever again. Never say it ever.

[29:45]Zibby Owens: It won't hold you too bad. Awesome. Well, thank you. I I could talk about this book, like, so much longer, but Thank you, Sofia. It's really just so fascinating and so sad and just, like, knowing even as we're sitting here that, like, all this history is sort of, like, seeped into the land, if you will, and, like, all around us. It's just I don't know. It just it's it's a it's a good way to, like, give you pause on, like, a Saturday afternoon. Right? Yes. But now these men are, like, in my consciousness. Forever and part of the landscape. I think about them every time I go in the water, whether it's in the winter or the summer. And now like March 28. Right? That's the day? March 29. Now March 29. Okay. Good. I'm But interestingly for all of the survivors,

[30:25]Amanda M. Fairbanks: March, just March, the whole month is like a thing that is still sort of shows up in these weird ways. And I think all of us have dates like that where there's been a traumatic event and it lives with us. And when you're doing your grocery shopping or running an errand, we don't show those things on the outside. So true. It's good to kind of give each other the benefit of the doubt. You much for you. Having for coming. Such a pleasure.

[30:52]Zibby Owens: Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and momsdonthavetimetoreadbooks. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.