Samantha Hart, BLIND PONY

[1:25]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen vaccine research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay. Now back to this amazing podcast. Happy Monday. My book blast continues for Memoir Monday. This is part two of the memoirs I've been releasing as part of the book blast because I love memoirs. And of course other books, but I really love memoirs. Anyway, enjoy this collection of diverse voices, thoughts, feelings, topics, and everything on this Memoir Monday. And you can go back a few days and listen to part one of the memoirs I'm releasing as the book blast. Enjoy, and I hope you connect and really enjoy them like I did. Samantha Hart is the author of Blind Pony, as true a story as I can tell. In Blind Pony, Samantha reveals a heart wrenching childhood of abuse which led to her life as a runaway teen and landed her in 1970s Los Angeles. This coming of age story is a page turner that chronicles the author's journey into her twenties as she navigates various abusive relationships, toxic Hollywood characters, and ultimately how she finds her North Star. Welcome, Samantha. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to talk about Blind Pony as True a Story as I Can Tell.

[3:02]Samantha Hart: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Congratulations

[3:06]Zibby Owens: on your book. It's really exciting. Thank you. You have lived quite an inspirational life. You've had so much to deal with, to write about these experiences all over the world. It's amazing the way you've distilled it down into this book and the way you've sort of parlayed everything into your career today and all the rest. It's Anyway, it's just really impressive and amazing. So anyway, just had to say that.

[3:35]Samantha Hart: Well, I think I started the book out, like writing the book. I would be at cocktail parties and people would say, oh, you have so many stories and you should write a book. But they were never, they were just anecdotal funny things. They had no real depth or meaning. And so I thought one day, you know, maybe I should write a book. And I started writing and it just became a catharsis. And what came out actually surprised me because what I had to write about was so deep and so much a part of who I became. The pain that I sort of built on in layers became the person that I evolved to. And I never really made that connection before writing the book. And I think that's kind of complicated to understand. But I think that some people use, you know, their pain or whatever to hide or to retreat. I used my pain to sort of push me forward. And I think part of it was becoming a single mom and, you know, really having that feeling of, well, I've got to get busy because I've got to take care of her. And that became my life's mission and everything else got put on the back burner. But now that I've had a time in my opportunity in my life to kind of reflect, you know, I even read the book and I can't believe I went through some of the things I went through, Zibby. I, you know, sometimes I just I go, gosh, golly, how did I get through that? Yeah. I'm like, is this really true? All of this? Yeah. It's true. I mean, unfortunately, I left out a lot of bits because I didn't wanna write like a tell all. You know, it wasn't about that. It was about me and my personal trauma and my personal experiences. And and part of me was like constantly going like, I don't want to tell people this. I still have clients out there. Like, what are people going to think of me, you know, revealing all this stuff? And, you know, as terrified as I was to do it because of those reasons is as joyful now that I did it. Because I realized that it actually is helping people. There are a lot of blind ponies out there, I like to say. I mean, you know, I mean, it's like when you pull on a thread and you know you've pulled on it, it's actually a good feeling, even though it does start as sort of unraveling. You know, like your book, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I mean, what mom can't relate to that? It's something that, you know, do you know what I'm saying? And so, you know, you pulled on a thread and it gets in it's, you know, it's infectious. I mean, I read the book right away, you know, so it's that type And of I think Blind Pony is a little trickier, but I have noticed like lately, you know, mental health has become a really big deal in the conversation, in society's conversation. And I wrote the book, really expecting to, you know, ignite that conversation. I really just wrote the book. Like I said, at first it was just a catharsis and my husband kept saying, you've got to do this. You've got to put, you know, he kept encouraging me to finish the book. And so when the pandemic hit and I finally had the time to really stop down and really reflect and think about it, that's when I really was able to finish it. And maybe you could tell people who don't understand what a blind pony is or the

[7:07]Zibby Owens: bigger sort of beats of your life story, if you could share them. Well, the title really came from

[7:14]Samantha Hart: was literally given a blind pony. I grew up on a farm in Pennsylvania, and my grandfather began abusing me shortly after we moved to the farm. My four sisters and I, my mother got divorced and she took us back to her family farm. And so I think I was at the age where I could be manipulated. I was five years old. And so I grew up with this, you know, not really understanding what love was, not really understanding that I was being so manipulated. And I can't that's all I'm gonna say about a girl, start telling how to get emotional. But I think it's also a form of control over me. He gave me this blind pony. She was only blind in one eye, but she was, it was just a, she was kicked out by, it was her eye was kicked out. So it was really gruesome to look at. And she became a metaphor for how I felt damaged. And I think that, you know, when you have four sisters, there's always competition. Right? And so they'd all be galloping up over gobbler's knob and I'd be kind of trotting along with the blind pony because I'd have to be her eyes and sort of guide her because she'd spook at almost anything. And so it really stuck with me that experience of having this blind pony And her name was Princess. And, you know, it's sort of the cost of being a princess is being damaged in some way, you know? And so all these sort of little pieces kind of fit together for me. And that's why I named the book Blind Pony. And it became, you know, like I said, a metaphor for not being seen and heard. And so I kind of built the book around that. And I think because the trauma experienced as a child before I ran away at age 14 was so significant that it stayed with me really for the rest of my life. I mean, now I think I'm finally kind of in a really healthy place where I don't have these repetitive nightmares or, you know, I don't hear a screen door snap shut and it triggers an emotion I felt as a little girl when the, you know, babysitter ran off with her household money. I mean, these things that happen, you know, as small as they seem, when you're little, they live on in the recesses of your mind, I guess. So throughout the book, there are mentions of my pony or these experiences. It's sort of flashbacks that occur at different points. But after I ran away from the farm is really where the action starts. I mean, it's like I went looking for my dad. He was a character I only knew as well, Bill, and he really lived up to his name. And I didn't really get the opportunity to really get to know him, but I did get to know him well enough to sort of debunk the way I idolized him, but still I used him as kind of a metaphor of someone who was like my guardian angel in a way. It's kind of complicated there too. But I'd find my way to Los Angeles and then, you know, a lot of crazy things happened. And by the grace and grit, I don't know how else to explain it. You know, I ended up with quite a successful career here. But, I mean, I couldn't have written this book, for example, if the Me Too movement hadn't happened. Because people have become a little desensitized to talking about some of these themes. You know, it's not as shocking. When I started thinking about talking about the book, I was so embarrassed to say that I'd been abused as a child. I mean, I was just there was so much stigma attached to it that it was like, I can't possibly say that. But I think that because of all these brave people who came before, it sort of paved the way for me to be able to, you know, kind of speak some of my truth. And my situation wasn't really me too. I mean, plenty of me too. Things happened in my, you know, years growing up in the business, too many to count, but they weren't like so terrible that they're even worth repeating. I mean, it just it was just the way it was. It was a different time period. And, you know, getting slapped on the butt was just, you did a good job, kid, boom, on your butt. It was a different thing. Now, if someone did that, it would be like, what have you just done to me? You know, it's like, I'm gonna sue you for everything you have. It was different, but I'm not saying it was okay. You know, I much prefer the workplace as it's evolved now for women, but my journey was definitely, it was definitely unique. It was at a great price, I think to me emotionally, but it all really began with being abused as a child. I don't think that if I had been protected and not abused as a child, that any of this would have happened. You know, who knows what my career could have been or should have been, you know, had I had the education I deserved or the opportunities. I mean, I had plenty of opportunities for mentors, but that was just by my own chutzpah, right? That I was able to get through doors or finagle my way. But I think that some things, should have been given to me that weren't like, you know, an education or those kinds of things. So I'm really, I think that when I had my daughter, I really committed to breaking that cycle and, you know, sent her to the poshest boarding school. She, you know, went to graduated from college in Boston, in Emerson. She, you know, she never wanted for anything. I mean, it was just the most paramount thing to me. And my son's the same thing. I mean, they're I've raised three great children and I can't imagine, you know, and I've spoken about this before and you really understand this. You know, when you look at your children, you love them so much. You can't even believe that they're your children, that they came out of you. You know, it's like, and it never happened to anybody else, did it? It's only unique to you when it, when they're yours. And it's hard for me to reconcile as much as I love my children that I wasn't loved in that way. Like, I don't understand it. And so, you know, it's I want to do something with all these feelings beyond writing the book. I want to be able to help in some way to communicate that, you know, that sort of, you know, protecting people from these kinds of things, I think. It's become sort of something that I'm thinking about

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[16:26]Zibby Owens: Well, at least, like, raising awareness and getting other people to join in the conversation is a powerful Thank you. Step. I mean, you're being willing to admit it just sets an example for other people. Right? Even what you just said, like, the the parts of us that we're afraid to share are often the most valuable. Right? Because those are the parts other people don't want to admit to. And whether it's experiences or feelings or the regrets we have or things we think are crazy about ourselves or whatever, I don't know. I think that's the greatest stuff to share, if you can. It's hard.

[16:59]Samantha Hart: It's hard. Within reason. Yes. And that's why I appreciate so much you're having me on because I know it's a difficult topic to kind of tackle for a lot of people to really get their mind wrapped around some of these crazy scenarios that happened in the book.

[17:17]Zibby Owens: But I also think it's so empowering the way you've created this, like, amazing career for yourself, you know? And and, like, now you're running this business, right? You like, tell me tell Tell me more about that. I mean, all this art direction you did and doing the posters for Dazed and Confused and all these iconic things that you did over time and how now you're still running a creative business. I mean, it's great.

[17:45]Samantha Hart: Well, you know, I think I sort of fell into I looking for I think all of us have a unique talent. And the trick is finding it. Even kids who've gone to college grapple with, you know, where what's my, you know, reason for living. And I know to some degree, you know, my my daughter went through that and she's she's an amazing singer and she didn't really wanna become a performer on Broadway, though she could have. But she has her own little theater arts group. It's actually growing and it's it's an amazing thing that she does, gifts these children with her, the magic of her voice and her imagination. So we all have these talents. And I think that like when I was little, I was lived in my imagination and it was a way of coping, but it was also just who I am, right? I mean, I was a creative person. I was always going in the farm, the old farmhouse. I was always trying to redecorate it with all these old antiques that nobody else cared about. And I was just obsessed with how beautiful they were, and I would polish them up and just was so almost obsessive compulsive about trying to create beauty around me. And I think that like and, you know, my aunt had foster kids, and so she had all these Salvation Army clothes, and she brought them over for the five girls, you know, to help clothe us. And I would pin them on in different ways and try to make them look cool. And I think that that gave me sort of opened creative channels in my mind about these kinds of things. Like, maybe I could have been a budding fashion designer or whatever. But I used that to become a stylist at one point. And then I happened to fall into the music industry and eventually that's, you know, ended up at Geffen Records. And what a better place for a creative person than to work under David Geffen because he had a mantra, like he nobody has a title here. We're all like, if people don't know what you're doing, then you're not doing your job. Like, there are no titles. So we were there was not really that kind of a hierarchy. And I created a package that sort of changed the industry way they package CDs. I won't go into the whole story, but Geffen backed me on it. And that kind of helped to catap- every little step, right? And, you know, when the president of the company wanted to take the penis off their Nirvana baby because Walmart wouldn't carry it, I said, well, they have to keep the penis because, you know, it's good if Walmart doesn't carry Nirvana. They shouldn't be in Walmart. They're too cool for Walmart. So I think it's just something that you intrinsically know, like creatively in this field. And then when I went on to work in film, I was so underqualified for the job because I didn't really understand the production of films, but I was very creative. And my boss was attracted to that and he hired me. And I don't think I let him down. I mean, I came up with amazing campaigns that are still talked about. I mean, Melissa Merritt just came out with a great book about the oral history of Dazed and Confused and talks about the iconic poster that I designed of the stoned happy face. But, you know, it was in a way for me, working on that film was a bit cathartic because I didn't really have a traditional high school experience. I graduated early. I was living as an adult by myself when I graduated high school. So, you know, when it was time to go out and party, I was, now I've got to get home and study. You know, I was a different kind of kid. So for me, it was just a blast being able to be part of that cast almost and be one of them. I think, you know, the copies certainly drove the copy lines and, you know, all those stuff that I put together for that really drove that campaign. And I think that whether or not it was a box office, you know, huge success, maybe it should have been. I stand behind the campaign I created because I think it really did give it cult status. Richard Linklater wanted the guy in front of a car or high school photos or whatever. And that would have been cool too. But I think the, you know, the happy face, the stoned happy face really communicated a lot. And at the time, Miramax had put out a film, The Crying Game, and the big popular line was the film everyone will be talking about, but don't give away the secret. And so we just picked up on that and had the film everyone will be talking about. And the MPAA missed it. They didn't get the joke. And then there was See It With The Bud and they didn't get that joke. And then there was, you know, then there were when it was final, it was a TV spot. It was when Clinton said, I I smoked marijuana, but I didn't inhale. So we came out with a TV spot that said, finally, a movie for anyone who did inhale. And it was just like and then they were like it became a political thing. So Jack Valente, who was the head of the NBA, he flagged it. But it was too late. It had already gained a life of its own. So those kinds of things and, other campaigns, I worked on Fargo and came up with the needlepoint idea and I was really flattered and excited to see that they picked it up for the TV series. So I think creating things out of your imagination, I think that that's a lot of what I, you know, what I did. I relied on a lot of my own experiences. You know, my grandmother was in needlepoint, did needlepoint. You know, so I think that we all sort of rely on our own experiences to sort of form our, you know, craft or what we do. But I think that just over the years, I've just become, I've just like anybody, it's a muscle, you use it, it gets better and stronger. And now, I really enjoy helping startups with marketing materials. I'm able to look at something and tell if it's gonna work and kind of shape it and make it into something like, you know, somebody will come to me with an idea and they won't really know what it means or how to express it. And somehow my mind is able to just go like that, that, that find the beats of what makes it work and put that into an audio visual piece or a print piece or whatever. So it's just something I've learned, I guess. I to have have you help me with my marketing or something. Yeah. I'd love to. Well, yeah, think you're doing a really great job with your marketing. I love your icons and I think they're great. Thank you. They're just infectious.

[24:53]Zibby Owens: They really are. Thank you. So what advice would you have for aspiring authors?

[24:58]Samantha Hart: Well, first of all, to be asked, my advice would be, it's really flattering because like, don't, you know, I guess I can put author down on my resume now. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. But I think just commit, you know, Steven Soderbergh told me once, you know, when you're doing anything that you creatively, the secret is just commence to start. And that's the hardest part is just begin. And I mean, you know, that's been someone reached out to me on LinkedIn telling me like she read my book and it affected her so much. And it was so much like her story and what should she do? Like she's been thinking and I said, well, you know, it's a very touchy thing, right? Because it really, I don't know her mental state. I don't know really where she's at in the process of her healing. You know, I said, first, I think you should talk to somebody. And second, you know, journaling, think really helps. It really helped me. I know a lot of people make fun of people who journal, but I think it's, if you have something that's making you sad and you write about it, I think sometimes it does seeing it on the page sort of go, well, you know, I can deal with that. You know, it's like chipping away at it or something. But I would say just commence to any author. That would be my best advice, the advice I got from Steven. And what's next on the horizon for you in general? Well, I'm still running my company, aptly named Wild Bill, and doing that for the foreseeable future. We want to branch out into certain different areas right now. We're sort of looking at that. But I am writing two new books. One is called When I Was a Muse and other And it's sort of a little bit of an adjunct to Blind Pony, but much different. It's drawings through the male gaze and short stories and prose through the female gaze and essays. And then the other book I'm tackling is a little bit based on the stories that come after Blind Pony, but it's going to be a fiction. I'm working on So that and that one's really, it's got me really excited. It sounds

[27:23]Zibby Owens: juicy. I can already tell.

[27:25]Samantha Hart: It's juicy, but in, I think the reader will have a lot more fun reading it. You know, I think Blind Pony was, like I said, you know, it was a catharsis and I've often thought like, should I have not made it so dark? Some people, some of the I've gotten so many five star reviews on Goodreads and I can't believe I get one star. I mean, two stars, three stars, five stars you're giving me. But some of people have said like, we love the book, but it was really hard to read. And I guess I didn't really think about that, you know, when I wrote it. And I don't know. I mean, what do you think? Do you think it was too honest or No, I don't think there is a thing that's too honest. I think you have to tell it like it is. I think it's

[28:14]Zibby Owens: I think sometimes when you feel like you wanna look away at someone's pain, that's the time you have to look closer. Oh, that's well said. That's

[28:23]Samantha Hart: a nice message. Yeah. Well, I feel good about writing it. And I think that's what's important to me, you know, and I don't really, I guess I'm at a point in my life too, where I really feel I'm at my most joyous, you know, like I said, I've raised three beautiful children. My boys are going to be seniors now, which I can't believe. They're in their last week of finals right now. And my daughter, you know, is a beautiful young woman. And I just feel that's the biggest accomplishment I've made. I've contributed three amazing humans to the world. And so I think, you know, I have some regrets. Like, I wish I would have maybe tried to write sooner because I feel I have a lot more to say, but I don't think it's ever too late. So I'm just going to keep going and exploring and, you know, trying to be the best person I can be and contribute as much as I can. So and I'm going to enter my book cover into the Zivvy Owens.

[29:28]Zibby Owens: Yes, the Zivvy Awards. Please do. I love your cover. Yeah, it was drawn

[29:34]Samantha Hart: by Nick Egan,

[29:35]Zibby Owens: who I saw that on your website. He's amazing.

[29:40]Samantha Hart: And I just called him up and he was terrified to do it because he thought, What if I don't like it? You know, he's British, he's really funny. And he came up with that from one of the scenes in the book, obviously. And I just thought it was so perfect. I didn't I said, that's it. Just do it. And I was really happy with it. He's an amazing talent.

[30:03]Zibby Owens: So I was really thrilled that he supported me in that. Well, Samantha, thank you. Thank you for coming on for Blind Pony. Thanks for being so open. Thank you. Thanks for using your story to help other people and even entertain along the way. So, you know, thank you Thank so you. Nice meeting you. All right. Have a great day. Okay. You too. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to part of my June Book Blast. I hope you enjoy it. Come back tomorrow for more. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and momsdonthavetimetoreadbooks. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com, and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.