Alexandra Andrews, WHO IS MAUD DIXON?: A Novel

[2:17]Zibby Owens: This is Zippy Owens and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens..com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. Alexandra Andrews is the author of Who is Maude Dixon? Alexandra has worked as a journalist, editor and copywriter in New York and Paris. Who is Maude Dixon is her debut novel. Publishers Weekly named her a writer to watch in 2021. She currently lives in Brooklyn with her husband and children.

[3:10]Alexandra Andrews: Welcome, Alexandra. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Bugs to talk about Who is Maude Dixon? Thank you so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here. I'm thrilled to have you. So for readers who might not have read this back in March when it came out, sorry for the delay here in recording and getting this episode out, could you tell them what Who is Maude Dixon is about? Of course. Who is Maude Dixon is about an ambitious young assistant in the editorial world who then gets a job as the assistant to a world famous but pseudonymous writer like Elena Ferrante. And first, she's just this woman who just becomes her mentor. And then our our young narrator, Florence Darrow, decides maybe she should take a shortcut and steal her mentor's life. It's sort of similar now to the plot in a way. Have you read that book? I know. Isn't that funny that all these books are coming out about the publishing industry? Yeah, it's true. Actually And I found out after I wrote my book that publishers never want to publish books about the publishing industry. Luckily, I'd already written it. No, not true. Because my GMA article for June is coming out any minute. And I literally in the introduction, I was like, okay, half these books take place in the publishing industry. Like what's going on? Like it's you started a trend here. It's great. Oh, that might have been a pork of the publishing schedule, but sure, I'll take it. Well, how did you come up with this idea? What made you write about this topic? Well, there was a little bit of me in Florence, even though I'm not quite as crazy as she is. And now is when I hang up. Yeah, exactly. Before anybody. And I started out in journalism. I was at ProPublica for a while. And then I moved into copywriting and I had never written fiction. And I was pregnant with my first child. And I was just thinking, this is ridiculous. I've been working in these jobs for fifteen years. I've always wanted to write a book. I've always found reasons not to do it. Just do it. So I finally sat down and I started writing about this woman who really wanted to be a writer and just also couldn't really like force herself to sit down and do the work. I was also rereading The Talented Mr. Ripley at the time, and I thought it would be fun to sort of do an update on the whole like identity switch. And I wanted to do it with women. And then it was also at the height of sort of Elena Ferrante fever. And I was so interested by this fascination with her real identity and the lengths to which this journalist went to track her down. And I think it was just all those ideas sort of swirling around that came together. Wow. Well, I have to say you drew me in particularly with the whole scene in what must be like a West Village dive bar or something that was in my head with, like, the older boss and the younger woman and, like, the hand under the table and the hotel room and all of this. And I was like, Oh, this is pretty juicy, like sitting up straight reading this. For that. Actually, got married at the Bowery Hotel and I had one of my first dates with my husband at that bar. It wasn't that juicy. No. You never know. I feel like that's what you can do in fiction. It's like, what if? What if this had happened? I don't know. Maybe. That's true. Exactly. I wish this had happened maybe. I know. I think that's why I was intimidated by fiction to begin with because when anything happen, it's what should happen. It's a little bit overwhelming having this blank page, but then, you know, it's just the other side of the coin. Like, well, that's sort of fun. You can make anything happen. And that's a bit circular logic. But how did you, like, what got you over the hump from like procrastinating and like not wanting to do not procrastinating really, but just maybe the fear of the intimidation of the project to like, I know you were pregnant, but that's another huge reason to not do it. I mean Actually, I started thinking about how my daughter would look at me and I really didn't want her to look at me as somebody who was working in a job I didn't really like, who wasn't really proud of the work I was doing and who was sort of this like, shoulda, coulda, woulda, like, oh, I wanted to be a writer. And so that was a big part of it. I also just felt like I'd reached my breaking point in these jobs. I was just feeling so desperate, I guess, for a change. It was also around the time my husband and I decided to move to Paris. And so I sort of we were only going for two years, although it ended up being a year and a half. And I decided to use this time as my do or die moment. And it was like, write a book or go find a different career, go to something completely different because this isn't working how things are going now. And so I ultimately wrote the book there, which is pretty delightful. That's awesome. That's like out of a movie itself. Now there's like an extra layer. Now the writer who thought about writing a book is now writing the book and you're in Paris and oh my God, very cool. So when you went to write it and as you were developing Florence and all the characters and even Maude Dixon herself and, like, the scuttlebutt around, like, who her personality is and all the parties and all of this, like like, how did you pull these things in from life? Like, how did you structure it? How did you like did it all just unfold as you sat down and you were like, you know, looking out at the scene and like, you know, feeling all inspired or did you did you like That would have been nice. Yeah. If it had just unfolded. It had it had. Was a slog. I went through 24 drafts. No. I still have them all on my computer. Yep. I mean, I had a I started out with such a clear plot. I mean, none of it survived. I threw out tons of pages. Our apartment even got robbed while we were there, while we were sleeping and my computer got stolen. I lost a few drafts. And then it sort of changed direction from there too. So there were definitely fits and starts. But ultimately what happened was I loved these characters so much and I loved their relationship, especially HelenMaude Dixon, that the plot sort of changed to accommodate them. And their dialogue would take me to new places. Originally, Maude had played a smaller role, but I was just having so much fun writing her that I kept her in for longer and longer and longer. So it really all came out of these two characters who are not based on anybody real, but I mean, I think Maude Dixon is I mean, I worked with a lot of very ambitious, smart, motivated women earlier in my career. And I sort of took that, which I very much admire. And then when it came to Maude, I took it to extremes and it sort of curdled into something a little bit darker and closer, like ruthlessness. But she still has that unapologeticness, which I actually do admire in women because I'm someone who's hemmed in a lot by trying to be polite, trying to be sweet or whatever, that whole baggage. So So it was fun to just kind of get carried away with this. You did have some line like that, like when Helen first meets her first meets Florence, it says something like, you know, it's like essentially kill or be killed. Like, you have to look out for yourself or I can't remember. I probably dog eared it somewhere, which, of course, I've lost by this point, but I don't know. Anyway I can't remember. I know. You know what I'm talking about? Remember. Now it's gonna come out that I didn't really write them off. Oh, no. That's so funny. Yeah. Let's let's break that news right here. Mhmm. Yeah. No. I can't find it. But that's okay. Well, anyway, you said something like that. I believe it. Yeah. That would be so funny if now somebody wrote a book about all the people writing never mind. Okay. Too meta here. Maybe not funny at all. So do you enjoy writing like this whole like, do you like it? Did you like the process? Did was it like, do you want to are you writing another book? Like, or were you like, that was awful. I'm never doing that again. Oh, that's so funny you asked that. I feel like whenever I would listen to author interviews in the past and they'd be like, Oh, writing is the worst job in the world. It's such a slog if I could do anything else. And I'd always think, Shut up. I want to be a writer. I have the easy stuff. And it's true. I get to sit in my apartment or wherever and make my own schedule. And there is something very enjoyable about it. But I do find it very emotionally fraught. I beat myself up over procrastinating. I have so much self doubt. So it's it's like a complicated process for me. I am working on the second book, but I've already thrown out two plots, which I had made some headway on. I'm just, it's, well, part of it, think is the pandemic. Think, you know, some people I think were spurred to a lot of creativity. That was not me. Found very hard to concentrate and gather my thoughts. And in a certain extent, to a certain extent, like reality was stranger than fiction. I was like, why am I making up stories? Like, this is crazy. This is as crazy as it gets. But now I feel like I'm in a better place. I have a plot I'm going forward with, hopefully the final one. And I am starting to enjoy it again. You know, it's a long slog and then every once in a while you sort of like get a rush and you think, oh, I like that sentence or oh, like there's a possibility. And like you just sort of live for those little like flights of euphoria. That's nice. A flight of euphoria. Maybe I just haven't been writing the right sentences. They're rare. They're very rare. Next time you read the same thing and you think, oh, this is garbage. Yeah. Next sentence you write that gives you a flight of euphoria, I'd like you to just like copy it and send it to me in an email because I wanna see what it looks like. I'm even I'm No. Because you don't feel like this. I can be the subject. You don't even have to say hello. Just like send me the sentence. I'm not even kidding. Anyway, that's funny. Well, so for that person who's sitting there listening now and is like, okay, it does sound like a slog even though, yes, you're not you know? What book did I just read? I just finished reading a book where the author at one point had to, you know, literally like lay cement on the side of the road and now is like, anybody who talks to me oh, Richard Russo. And was like, you know, if we talk about hard work, he's like, this is not hard work. I think about how he thinks about how his back was hurting and blah blah. So, okay, fine. It's not that. Right? I'm not comparing it to that. But what would you say? Like somebody wants to get into it. What advice would you give? Would you say yes? Would you say no? What would you say? I would say yes. I feel like if you have the urge, satisfaction from doing it. And I will give two pieces of tangible advice. One, don't reread anything you write. I think that was huge for me because I would always read things and be like, Ugh, this is terrible. And then just give up. And with Maude Dixon, I just told myself I wasn't going to go back. I would start every day and just start typing, typing, typing, close the document, and I wouldn't go back. And then by the time I finally reread it to edit it, I had gotten far enough in where it was almost there's some economic term, but it was just too much to throw away. Put in too much. And then the other big thing is just put a internet blocker on your computer. It makes such a difference. Wow. I don't know. I mean, I feel like with kids, I feel like I always have to be in touch. You know I mean? Like, I don't know. I know. You might get the time, but your brain doesn't stop you. Never know. Like the school can always call or something can happen. And so there's, know, but anyway, so I don't know. Internet blocking for me, I don't know. But for other people, I like that. I like it. I like it in theory. I like it in theory. So when you're re like, what kind of books do you like to read? Do you love to read? Or did you always I love to Did you always love to read? Yeah. Yes. I always did. I actually read a lot of literary fiction. I love going back to the classics. I have a terrible, terrible memory, which is actually sort of a boon because I get to reread my favorite books over and over again for the first time. Right now I'm reading Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann, which I've read The Magic Mountain, but I never read this. And it's just so delightful. I mean, you think of these plastics as being very like sort of dry or boring, but it's not. He's a great storyteller. And so I just, I love going back to the books that are just, they've, you know, the test of the ages and they really are just beautiful, beautiful stories. And in terms of like more contemporary stuff, is there anything good you've read lately? Like what's the, is there something that kept you up at night lately? Or I hate to put you on the spot like this. I'm just always like, looking at my pie. I mean, I love Rachel Kuss's new book. What else have I read recently? Oh, I'm, like, looking at my bedside table. I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna remember. Oh my gosh. And so how did you end up working with Jen Joel as your agent, by the way? So I lucked out. My husband is a novelist, Christopher Beia. And he was just very hooked into the literary world. He's also the editor at Purpose. And so he had mentioned to a few agents that he was that I was writing this book and he just sort of gave a brief outline of the plot. They were like, Oh, that sounds interesting. Like she can send it my way. And so I sent it to three agents that, you know, he hooked me up with and Jen wrote back and said she'd love to work together, which was just like a dream come true. Chris was like, Jen is, you know, Jen is such a big deal. She's not going to take you on, but she might like kick you down to like someone else at the company. And then I just like jumped at it like that. And she's been so wonderful. Uh-oh. And so what is it like in a marriage where both of you are writing, especially given all of your I mean, you're like seriously one of the most like, I can like feel your self criticism oozing out of you, you know, like, your self doubt and self criticism. And, like, I don't know why. I mean, you're obviously a really talented author and everything, but anyway or maybe it's just par for the course and you're more open about it. Yeah, maybe this is going turn into a therapy session. I'm going to have to send you a check after that. Go for it. I'm happy to No, I do try to be honest and open about it because, I mean, it was a struggle and I think a lot of people doubt themselves and that doesn't mean you can't do it. It doesn't mean it's valid. Just admit that you're telling yourself lies, I guess. No, it's actually a delight being married to another novelist. He is so supportive. He gives wonderful advice. I didn't give him this book until it was like, I had a full complete draft because I just didn't want to reading anything rough. He luckily liked it and was very kind and he gave some constructive criticism. It also helps that we write like sort of different types of books. He's very much like a literary writer. His book just got nominated for the National Book Award. And, you know, I'm a little bit more commercial. I really want to write something like entertaining and fun and diverting and engaging. And I mean, he does too, but so we sort of have different goals and yeah, it's just real, it's nice to be able to like bounce your ideas off of somebody. He actually just gave me another idea for my second book, which is like, keep the story exactly the same, but tell it from a different character's point of view. And I was sort of like, Oh yes, I should do that. Wow. Gonna have him come around. Yeah. Actually, my husband is like super creative and I feel like I do like interviews sometimes and I'm I should probably thank him more because I like everything I do, I'm like, what do think about this? What What do you think about this? I need a title for this. What title? It's really him. Yeah. Totally. I'm not doing anything really. Know. Even when I write like my like bio, I would send it to him. I'm like, is this okay? Do the same thing. I do the same thing. Mean yeah. I'm like, okay. I'm trying to solve this problem. He's like, okay. Well, I'm gonna go to work now.

[18:12]Alexandra Andrews: but I need you over here. Oh my gosh. Well, that's neat, though, to have I mean, I'm sure your daughter then is gonna be just like, you know, overflowing with, like, how do you even decide which books to read tonight? Like, here, I'll just read a page from mine. Anyway alright. Awesome. Well, great. If you could just send me a check, it'll be about a $100,100 $150. And If you could write me a Next time, we'll work on, you know, overcoming second novel paralysis, and we'll see how it goes. That would actually be great. I would pay a lot of money for that. Okay. See you here next time. Same time next Our time is up. Okay. Is up. Right. Have a great day. Good luck with the writing.

[18:59]Zibby Owens: Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.