Jasmine Mans, BLACK GIRL, CALL HOME

[1:28]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen vaccine research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. If all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram ZibbyOwens and my website is zibbyowens dot com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. Special announcement, I am teaming up with Katie Couric Media's Wake Up Call and Random House to give away 100 copies of the book Stranger Care by Sarah Santillis. I'm really excited about this. Here's a little about Sarah's book, and we collectively are giving away a 100 copies. After their decision not to have a biological child, Sarah Santilles and her husband Eric decide to adopt via the foster care system. Despite knowing that the system's goal is the child's reunification with the birth family, Sarah opens their home to a flurry of social workers who question them, evaluate them, and ultimately prepare them to welcome a child into their lives even if it means most likely having to give the child back. Stranger care is an illuminating read, and Sarah will be on this podcast soon. So if you would like to enter for a chance to win, please go to the link in the episode description from right where you clicked on it and enter your email address first and last name. By doing so you're agreeing to the sweepstakes official rules and agree to receive communications and special offers from Katie Couric's wake up call and moms don't have time to read books. Thank you for doing it and enter to win today. Just go back to the episode description. Thanks again. Jasmine Manz is the author of Black Girl Call Home. Jasmine is a queer black American slam poet and performance artist from Newark, New Jersey. Her poetry book, Black Girl Call Home, has been named one of Oprah Magazine's most anticipated LGBTQ books. The book is now available and it is amazing. Her work has been featured in Elle, Oprah Magazine and many others. She graduated from the University of Wisconsin Madison with a BA in African American studies. Jasmine's poetry has gone viral many times over on YouTube. She has opened PAC shows for Mostef, Janelle Monae, and Goa Pele, and performed at such esteemed venues as the Kennedy Center, Broadway's New Amsterdam Theater, the Wisconsin Governor's Mansion, and the Sundance Film Festival. She also participated in Brave New Voices, an eight episode poetry documentary on HBO. Jasmine has written for and performed voice over work for a number of campaigns, including secret, pangaya, and nowness to name a few. She can currently be heard as the voice of Ulta Beauty's national muse campaign, honoring black women in the hair and beauty industry. Her debut collection of poetry, Chalk Outlines of Snow Angels, was published in 2012. She's the resident poet at the Newark Public Library. Jasmine also led Newark Symphony Hall's EmbraceNewark initiative, which featured writings, footage and photography from local black artists documenting their pandemic experience. Jasmine created the company Buy Weed From Women, where she sells her own designs in support of women working in the cannabis industry. Enjoy our conversation. Hi, how are you? Hello there.

[4:49]Jasmine Mans: I am well. How are you today? I'm good. Thank you.

[4:53]Zibby Owens: Your hair looks so different from your bio. Do you chop it off or what happened?

[4:57]Jasmine Mans: Oh, those were braids. I have really, really I don't know if that's what you saw. Yeah, I have really long braids. You know, it's a black girl thing, braids, short hair, long hair, thick hair, thin hair.

[5:10]Zibby Owens: It's weekly thing, depending on how I feel. Alright. That sounds great. I have, like, hair that does nothing and that never changes and is so boring. My big my big excitement is yesterday, I, like, cut off this much, which nobody would ever notice. So, you know

[5:26]Jasmine Mans: I'd notice. I'd But thank you.

[5:30]Zibby Owens: Actually, I don't know if I would able be able to even decide. I feel like it's hard enough to get dressed that if I had to decide on what to do with, like, my actual hair, I think it would be one thing too many. Truth be told, I have, like, legitimately three hairstyles,

[5:43]Jasmine Mans: a bob, some braids, and an afro. So it's like a juggle between the three. Maybe like I'll switch it every few years. It'll become a different combination, but it's usually that three that I navigate for an entire year. Wow. I love that. Very cool.

[6:01]Zibby Owens: So Jasmine, tell listeners about your collection of poems and what inspired you to write them. I want to hear like all of how you included all these like pop references and your line of merch and like, oh my gosh, you have so much cool stuff going on. So let's start with the book.

[6:21]Jasmine Mans: Well, with the book, you know, as a writer, you just, you're always writing in hopes that one day it matters, right? And like, people think that writers just start writing when they're given the opportunity to publish a book. But often we have these ideas brewing in our heads about what we want to write about, who we want to write about, and then when given the opportunity, how we'll bring these thoughts together. And so I've been writing literally all my life, and it's so odd to say I'm legitimately doing what I said I'd always do. I said that I would be a writer. And so I gathered a lot of the writing that I've saved over the years and saw what I had. And so that gave me themes of Black girlhood, home. I wrote a lot about boys and my mother and relationships and heartbreak. I had a wealth of information around cataloging my own heartbreak. And so I was like, these are your themes here. And I was like, Well, what didn't you write about? And so then I had to start breaking into the things that I didn't write about, the things I was nervous to write about, the things that I didn't feel educated enough to write about. And then I became a student of my own project. And I was like, All right, I know that I'm gonna say these things, and I have to perfect those things, but then now I have to investigate and dig in over here. And then I'm gonna put all of that together. And so that's essentially, like, in a nutshell,

[7:57]Zibby Owens: how we got Black Girl, Call Home. Wow. That sounds like a very complicated interweaving of lots of stuff. But, yeah, I mean, the thing about usually finished works, you're absolutely right. Like, nobody just I mean, it's it's always, like, in people's heads for a long time, all these things. And by the time you get it on the page, like, sometimes it's, like, in perfect shape. Sometimes it's right. I feel like the writing itself is just one piece of the creative process.

[8:26]Jasmine Mans: Right, right. And it's a dynamic piece, right? And it's so many details because I say all the time that, like, each poem requires something different. I can write a one line poem, and it'll literally be seven words, and I'm staring at those words for days, trying to figure out if the and is important or if the and is not important. And then there are poems where I wrote as a character and it was written in voice and it was a monologue and it needed no editing, no changing. And so I'm realizing that completion is this feeling, but it's also, you don't have to honor it. I got a lot of anxiety when my book was published because I was like, It wasn't perfect. I could have done this, this, and this better, and it's just like, it's done now. Yeah. Sorry, too late. Next time.

[9:19]Zibby Owens: Volume two. Is there are you working on do you have more poems sort of like in the pipeline and ready to go? Or what are you thinking of tackling after this collection? Yeah,

[9:31]Jasmine Mans: I just shared with my agents some new work, and I was nervous on many levels. I was nervous about if it would be as good as what I wrote before, then thinking about the fact that it was a collection of work that I've written over the years. And now what I'll publish next will be who I am now and on, and hoping that that's good enough. So it's weird to reach a moment of accomplishment, of I finally became a debut author, and now restarting the process of being new and being a student again and trying to be satisfied with yourself.

[10:18]Zibby Owens: Wow. And so how did you decide to not only write poetry but sell all this cool stuff? Because I feel like most authors do not have this. And this is all so cool, although a lot of it is sold out. Some of it, I feel like I should only say on my sex podcast, which I also have, by the way. I feel like this should be merch for my sex podcast. We can get from that podcast as well. Well, I have my line of merch, and then I own this company called Buy We From Women. And truth be told,

[10:46]Jasmine Mans: it's so funny to say this, but it all started with the concept of messaging, right? Where it's just like, before I am a designer or a businesswoman or strategist, I'm a messenger. And so I think that one thing that a poet can do better than anybody is rap and harness a message, that so many of us have brilliant thoughts and ideas, but the messenger is the one who's going to harness the message. And so what you see in my merchandise is these really solid, quick messages that you hear, that you can remember, and that can stick with you. And they're all very short. And so what I learned from Instagram, and also in my desire to be a good messenger and an entrepreneur, is that you want to take the message that hits hard, the punchline that will sit in the heart, and put it on things that can live in the home. And so you see the tote bags and T shirts and coffee mugs and candles because these things are They're not necessarily Jasmine Manz's poem, right? People are not buying it because they're in love with my poetry, but because they're connected to the simple message that sometimes they just want to be remembered or that Black girls don't die, but these short form messages that can stick with you that are not the long poem, right? They're not the book. And some of these people who got the message don't have the book. But it's one thing that I learned from being a poet is that if you can be clear about your message, you can also then be clear about your audience and make people fall in love. Wow. I wonder sort of where

[12:32]Zibby Owens: the line falls between poet and copywriter. Right? It's like it's a fine line. Like, poetry is so obviously much more literary, but there's something similar in, like, the use of words in such an economic what's that word? Like, economious way or whatever, where you have to be so careful, you know, Stop stealing art from black girls, but on your tote bag, and then you have these beautiful poems, which I had all dog eared and ready to read out loud during this podcast, I have to tell you. But we rescheduled, and now I packed up the book, and I can't find it. So I feel terrible. But I had all these really insightful points to make about different poems. And I'm not going to make them today, but just know I have them. I had the thoughts and I read the poems and it was beautiful. And I've become actually, to be honest, much more into poetry since I've started this podcast as a form. Like, I hadn't really read it since high school. And now that I keep getting these collections, I'm like, oh, poetry. And I think it it's so perfect for everyone's short attention span right now, too. Like, you can read a book of poetry in not that much time, and yet you get all of that literary feeling. It's like taking a shot instead of having a glass of wine. Yes,

[13:46]Jasmine Mans: absolutely. Because the shot is the full experience, where, like, the glass is more so a journey. And one thing about poetry is that each poem is a story. And so you can open the book, read one poem, and close the book, and then open it three weeks. You don't have to be committed to this linear idea of finishing. And that means that the book can journey with you, and it's also a less intimidating process for a new reader or a reader who's not sure if they like poetry. And then I'm just trying to get people to understand, I think every poet is trying to get people to understand that this isn't like your auntie's westernized poetry class. Poetry sounds very, very different, and you really can understand the literal voices of so many different cultures just by diving into poetry. Like, I've learned about a Vietnamese American boy by way of his poems or learned so much about Muslim women by way of their poems because it had voice. And so poetry is different. It's very different from what we've been taught. Yes, absolutely.

[15:06]Zibby Owens: Almost song like too. It could be a song, it could be a poem, it could you know, it's like I feel like half these things are quotes you'd wanna, like, put up on your bulletin board or something like that. You know? And then, of course, in your collection, you wove in so much timely stuff too. I know you said it came, like, over a lifetime, but you have, like, Serena Williams and Kanye and like all these like, you know, very of, you know, right now things going on. Like, this is not just like staring at like a beautiful pond and watching the ripples, you know? This is like, it's like real dialogue with society and what's going on today. Have you always written like that, or it's it's have you always, like, sort of wanted to engage in that type of sort of timeliness in your writing? Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

[18:43]Jasmine Mans: Yeah. Because, like, so many things fall upon your heart and so many things, like, you sit with and it could be in pop culture, so you don't know how the story belongs to you. And I think so many of us who sit in the public eye, in the public narratives, we're always like, well, how does this story belong? Does it belong? Do I have a right to give my opinion? And there are many stories that happen in pop culture. Sandra Bland dying in prison and getting arrested, Whitney Houston's drug addiction, Serena Williams being policed as one of the most, like, even though she's one of the probably the best athlete in the world. And my commonality is the Blackness around it, how the Black woman's body is policed. And so there are things like as a writer where I'm like, I've been thinking about this for some time now. All right, let me write. I won't tell anybody what I said, but let me write something around it. And then you sit with it and you think about if your narrative is important and if it's valuable. And some of these artists, I've had the honor of studying, like studying their careers and studying their criticisms. And so not only am I writing about these people, but I'm also a student of the thought. So

[20:06]Zibby Owens: here is like a really stupid question. So this is like what I've always wondered about poetry, because I am very comfortable writing essays. That's like my go to form. And I could write an essay, boom, boom, boom. Like, I know when it starts and ends. I know when it's percolating. I know when it's ready to write. I know how to do that. But poetry, like, how do you even know when it's a poem? Like, you talked about seven words. Like, staring at it. Is it just because you set out to make it a poem? Like, how do you know it's not just like, like how do you know when a poem is a poem? And how do you know when it's done? I don't know.

[20:40]Jasmine Mans: I think a poem is a poem because I'm a poet. And so yes, there are themes like in my book, there is a piece that I wrote like an essay or not so much like an essay, but like a story like prose. And it didn't follow. There was nothing poetic of value. It was prose. And so I think that's, I couldn't even take your own pretend to answer that question. Okay. Like I could not pretend to answer that question. Alright. Well, as long as both of us don't know, then I feel better. Okay. We we don't. It's okay. Okay.

[21:16]Zibby Owens: You said that you did what you set out to do, which is to become a writer. What got in the way?

[21:23]Jasmine Mans: Me wanting to become a writer got in the way of me wanting to become a writer. It was trying to be like everyone else. You can be a writer, but then it's about finding your voice. That I remember there was a specific time in my career where when I was a bit younger, I'm still really young, but I remember being embarrassed of talking about Black stuff. And I wanted and it reminded me of when I was young and when I did speech and debate, and the Black debaters and performers would talk about thick, hard stuff. And they would use the text of Toni Morrison and Langston Hughes, whereas the white debaters and performers would talk about flowers and things that were fun and funny. And I realized like that dynamic very, very early. I'm sorry, what was your question? I just got lost. I was just wondering if anything had gotten in your way on your way to becoming a writer. And so it was not, and so it was just like one to, it was understanding like what kind of writer I wanted to be. And then it was not being embarrassed of the writer I wanted to be. And I was often juxtaposed between looking at myself and my white counterparts, and also being in spaces where even some of my colleagues and my peers didn't think that the Black narrative was valuable. It was like, don't talk about that. That's cliche or that we don't want to like, and it was this like this idea of participating in this like, uppity collegiate Blackness that like, I was removed from that world. And I didn't have to talk about those complications. And there was this moment, I think that happened. And it wasn't long ago that I realized that like, I was excited about my Blackness. I was excited about my understanding of home. And that I was only going to be able to write about my understanding of home if I valued it? You can't write in a voice that you don't value. And so that was the complication. I had to believe in it and value it in order to write about it. I love that. Because I feel like part of publishing,

[23:45]Zibby Owens: right, requires the confidence to believe that somebody else wants to read what you have to say. And I feel like there's so many writers out there who do a lot of writing, but, like, can't get it into the public eye because they don't feel like what they have to say is worth it or and so it stays in drawers or it stays in laptops.

[24:03]Jasmine Mans: And those are the voices I feel like we really need to hear. It's crazy when you realize that you are the biggest thing that is the hindrance, that you stand in between all of your becoming. You think it's everyone else and the people, but it's actually our own minds and when we think about ourselves and our experience.

[24:23]Zibby Owens: Yeah. Wow, this is deep stuff. Okay, so you're an entrepreneur, you're a poet.

[24:31]Jasmine Mans: What is next? What are you going to do next? Isn't that crazy? I have no idea. I'm going to write more. And my goal is to always write better. I wanna create more. And I just feel like this is the most beautiful point in my life where the things that I believe I can do are actually flourishing. And so I want to design more and take risks and create more poetry and investigate as a poet. And I think that's what makes something poetry, when you make decisions as a poet. And so I want to make more poetic decisions and be thoughtful about my work and then find joy and be good to people. I feel like make poetic decisions could go on one of those mugs. That's a pretty cool line. Thank you. I'll give you 10% for that. Thank you.

[25:21]Zibby Owens: You know what? I don't need a percentage. Just send me a mug. That's it. How about that?

[25:26]Jasmine Mans: We're recording. I really have to do it now.

[25:30]Zibby Owens: On the record. Oh my goodness. Awesome. Well, do you have any advice for aspiring authors and or poets?

[25:39]Jasmine Mans: Continue that what makes us good artists is our ability to find our worthiness to keep going and share, share even the bad stuff that the bad stuff is worth listening to. That's great. Of course, now we're gonna read all this terrible stuff.

[25:58]Zibby Owens: No, I'm kidding. All right. Well, Jasmine, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. You'll think of me maybe while you change out your hair, and you'll think of me with the same hair again day after day after day after day, wishing I could do something else. So, you know, I'll think of you as I brush my hair. There you go.

[26:18]Jasmine Mans: We love each other. It was a pleasure. Me too. Have a great day. Have a great day. Bye bye.