J. Michael Straczynski, TOGETHER WE WILL GO

[1:47]Zibby Owens: This is Zippy Owens and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay. Now back to this amazing podcast. Listeners, if you enjoy this podcast, I promise you will love my new audiobook for moms don't have time to a quarantine anthology. It's not about the quarantine, but a lot of the essays were written during that time about other things that moms don't have time to do or other busy people, things like reading, eating, working out, breathing, having sex. And 60 bestselling and notable authors wrote essays. All those authors have been on this very podcast. So if you like to listen to my conversations, if you want to get to know these authors better, I read the audiobook myself. Check it out on Audible, Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. Again, Audible audiobook. Go listen to it. It's like sixty minute podcasts. I hope you enjoy. Special announcement. I am teaming up with Katie Couric Media's Wake Up Call and Random House to give away 100 copies of the book Stranger Care by Sarah Santillis. I'm really excited about this. Here's a little about Sarah's book, and we collectively are giving away 100 copies. After their decision not to have a biological child, Sarah Santilles and her husband Eric decide to adopt via the foster care system. Despite knowing that the system's goal is the child's reunification with the birth family, Sarah opens their home to a flurry of social workers who question them, evaluate them, and ultimately prepare them to welcome a child into their lives, even if it means most likely having to give the child back. Stranger care is an illuminating read, and Sarah will be on this podcast soon. So if you would like to enter for a chance to win, please go to the link in the episode description from right where you clicked on it and enter your email address, first and last name. By doing so, you're agreeing to the sweepstakes official rules and agree to receive communications and special offers from Katie Couric's wake up call and moms don't have time to read books. Thank you for doing it and enter to win today. Just go back to the episode description. Thanks again. J. Michael Straczynski is the author of Together We Will Go. He was born in Paterson, New Jersey in 1954 from a lower middle class blue collar family that moved 21 times in his first eighteen years. He began writing in earnest and selling at the age of 17 and hasn't stopped since. He graduated San Diego State University with degrees in psychology and sociology. As a journalist, he has written over 500 published articles for such periodicals as the Los Angeles Times, the Los Angeles Herald Examiner, Penthouse, Writer's Digest, San Diego Magazine, the San Diego and Los Angeles Reader, and Time Inc. He has also published numerous short stories, an amazing science fiction magazine, Pulp House, and various anthologies. As a TV writer and producer, he has written over 200 produced episodes, including work on the new Twilight Zone, Nightmare Classics, and Murder, She Wrote. He also wrote, created, and produced the series Babylon five, Crusade, and Jeremiah. Moving from TV to film, he wrote Changeling directed by Clint Eastwood, Ninja Assassin produced by the Wachowskis, provided the story for Thor directed by Kenneth Brana, wrote Underworld four starring Kate Beckinsale, has written numerous other films that are currently slated for production. He has won the Hugo Award twice, the Saturn Award, the Eisner Award, the Inkpot Lifetime Achievement Award, the E Pluribus Unum Award from the American Cinema Foundation, the Space Frontier Foundation Award, the Ray Bradbury Award, the Christopher Award, and over a dozen others. He was also nominated for a BAFTA British Academy Award for his screenplay for Changeling. He writes ten hours a day every day except for his birthday, New Year's Day, and Christmas Day. Welcome, Joe. Thanks so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss. Together We Will Go. Thank you. Happy to be here. So I know you've had this amazing career, but just to start with your most recent project, this book was so interesting as a look on how to deal with depression and end of life and chronic pain and what to do when you feel like you have no options. And then the way

[6:15]J. Michael Straczynski: you crafted it with all the different forms and, you know, audio recording buttons and texts and everything was just, I found it all just super interesting and original. And anyway, just wanted to start off by saying that. Well, you. I appreciate it. It was a calculated risk on a lot of different levels because on the one hand, doing a story about suicide and of life and the choices that come with that, which is risky on its own terms, then you add to it doing it in a epistolary format, which is not usually done outside of the very obscure literary circles. And it's like, this can fail in so many spectacular ways. But that to me is the thought of doing it. You want to take chances and do things that are not expected of you. And for me, this was a good chance to do that. I've had a number of friends, a large number of friends who have taken their own lives and passed away. And I really wanted to delve into that and try and figure out what's going on and understand that more. And along the way, I hope help others to understand that dynamic. There's an answer toward the end of the book where they talk about the value of what they put together as a way of, in a way, inoculating the reader against that problem. Because very often it blindsides you and you're unprepared for it. But by living through so many different scenarios of the characters, you now know what to expect when it happens and you can adjust accordingly.

[7:39]Zibby Owens: I mean, there were some of the characters where you're just like, Oh, well, yeah, I get it. Do you know what mean? Like, not that it's ever sanctioned, but for instance, the character who had, which I think she called it the spider or the monster. What was it called? Spider? The Yeah. Yeah. The spider who was just, I mean, to have to live with like the worst pain of your life twenty four seven, that hard. Like it raises all these questions. What is life? What is the value of life? Like what does it mean to really be able to live? Like when is it too much? What, I don't know. It just like makes you think about all these things in like really deeply in just, you know, a few paragraphs,

[8:17]J. Michael Straczynski: really. Thank you. And I wanted the book neither to condemn nor to condone. But what I did want to do is use the range of characters to explore. As you said, some look at, you think, you know, I understand why people would do that. Some characters like Peter, look at, you're just nihilistic. Some can be defensible, cannot. And for some people, there is that question of if you are in chronic pain. But in her case, she actually finds a way to love and an experience that causes her to not be sure anymore about her path. And that's the cool thing about the book. Some of them go all the way with the path, some of them don't. For me, it's some discovering joy and love and life. Yeah. Even if it's just going to a strip club. I mean, why not? You know, you never know. Exactly. The thing is, the metaphor is for all of us, because we all come into this world with potentialities and talents and dreams. And we have a finite period of time. But that finite period is a few days or weeks or years, you have to decide what is worth living for you. It's easy to find something worth dying for, but hard to find something worth living for. And for our characters, what is that thing? One character makes the point that the suicidal impulse is like when your car pulls to the left all the time, and have keep putting your hand on the wheel to readjust it to the right. And for some people, that decision to sip off the earth isn't like, I decided to do this. It's more like I decided not to hold on to the wheel anymore. And things certainly began to happen at that point. Interesting.

[9:57]Zibby Owens: There was also the part where sometimes the people you leave behind feel like it's about them almost. Like, how could you do this to me? Right? Whereas your characters like, can we not just have suicide be finally about us? Like, come on, just give me this one moment, because of course, what you're doing. And the reason why I feel like in some books I've read, where people have really struggled or been on the brink, there's usually one relationship that sort of tethers them back or says, like, okay, you know, my son, for instance, and, like, Erin French's book, Finding Freedom, and at The Lost Kitchen, like, she was on the brink of suicide and said, no. No. No. Like, I've gotta be there for my son. I can't. And she, like, put down the shoelaces or whatever. So there's sometimes there's just, like, that one thing, and then there's others. I don't know. There's this whole like, what happens with those who have been left behind by this particular means of of death? I don't know. It just, like, raises all sorts of questions.

[10:50]J. Michael Straczynski: Yeah. And and and for those who are, you know, in the book thinking of doing this, they want to be about them ultimately as you as you were saying. Exactly. And it it is a hard situation because you you know you're gonna have an impact on other people. But what I found interesting is that those who I've known who have taken the step, there's a lightness to them after they made that decision. The hard part was making the decision. Once you got past that, oddly enough, they got like really funny. They got really, you know, free. And that's the reason why I wanted the book to have a sense of humor to it. It's not grim, dark or relentless the entire time. There's great character moments to it. There's great humor to it and great bonding. You know, they find someone who thinks the same way they do. And now they have a companion, but they now have a a person to bounce off the question.

[11:38]Zibby Owens: Well, am I really doing the right thing here or not? And and some of them indeed do change their minds. I had a very close friend who committed suicide a long time ago, but she had developed some mental illness to go along with it. It sounds like and I don't think she consciously I mean, I think there were a lot of factors that led to to what happened to her, but I don't know what it was like for the people that you've lost. Sounds like did they tell you that they had made this decision? Like, are you just knew in retrospect that that's what happened?

[12:06]J. Michael Straczynski: You kind of know in retrospect that they often don't tell you. One or two people did tell me, but others did not. And one reason I want to write the book also from a youthful point of view, is that suicide right now is like the number two killer for people in their 20s. It has gotten completely off the hook. And someone had that, I felt, kind of addressed that in a way that wasn't preachy or wasn't trying to correct them. Just saying, look, these are the options. And there are, I understand where you want to go, but there are other paths you can pursue.

[12:41]Zibby Owens: Wow. So how was it? How was the act of writing this? And what made you decide to write it in the format? Like, how did you choose this format to tell your story to tell the story as opposed to just straight prose of, you know, 12 people, like, getting together and going on a trip and blah blah blah? I like to experiment. I like to push myself. I think that if you want to have a long term career as a writer, you have to be constantly questioning yourself and challenging yourself and trying new forms.

[13:06]J. Michael Straczynski: And I always look at what carries the biggest risk. Where can I possibly screw up and blow up my entire career? Write an epistolary novel in the twenty first century. This is going to be great. But I also wanted to, it's the only vehicle that would, as it were, only vehicle that would allow me to really delve into the thought process of everyone involved. Because when we're talking to someone else, very often we choose our words carefully, or we hedge our bets, we aren't being 100% honest. But when we're writing just for ourselves, then we tend to be a little more honest. And I wanted this to be an honest discussion of their lives, their histories, what they've done through the perspective, why they made the choice that they made, why they may change their minds. And the only way to do that was to get inside their brains and stay there. So the idea of switching points of view 12 times made a lot of sense. Wow.

[13:55]Zibby Owens: So how long did this project take? Like, when did you come up with the idea? And how long did the how long did it take? And what was your process like when you were writing it? Did you have a special place you like to go to get it done? Or did you do it everywhere? What was it like? I work in my office. It's my my sanctuary. It is the one place where everyone knows don't don't bug him when he's in there.

[14:13]J. Michael Straczynski: I I've been noodling around with it for quite some time because they mentioned I've lost a number of friends, and and stories accrete like lint on a sweater. Know, bits and pieces stick to you one day, you do that, and then, oh my god, there's a story. And it was kind of like that. And I began to sort of see what the focus of it was, the structure of it was. And then finally, thought, okay, I'm going to try this. It took me about a year to write it all together, Cause I really wanted to be authentic in the writing process. I'm very happy with how it came out. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[16:41]Zibby Owens: Wow. Oh, me too. How does it differ? I know you've done a lot of work with screen and adapting things and everything from graphic novels and Spider Man and Ghostbuster. I mean, it's like crazy all the things. You're like the, you know, Forrest Gump of like, you know, I was like about I was trying to get my 14 year old son in here to do this with me, but then I was like, it is all about suicide. But I was like, you're never gonna believe what this guy has done. He's like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go back to my video games. But anyway, like how did how did you get into

[17:13]J. Michael Straczynski: like how did this whole life sort of happen for you? Seriously, I can't hold a steady job. That's what we're trying to say. No judgment here. I I always knew I was gonna be a writer. And from my age 12 onward, there was just never any doubt in my head at all, which is why I created a career where either I was gonna make it as a writer or sort of crash and burn and die. Those were my only options. Started writing in high school, and I started off initially as a journalist. And I thought that might be my path. And enjoyed it quite a bit. And what being a journalist does, it teaches you how to deliver on time, how to think fast, how to write fast. And I sort of, it wasn't really a plan. I knew I kind of wanted someday to work in TV or someday to work in movies. But I kept blowing up one career and moving on to the next. Have journalism with American animation, blew that up. And the live action so far, so good. But like I said, I'm back up. When I was in, when I first came to LA, there were about a dozen writers that I knew who were kind of the top of our group at that time, very successful, made a lot of money. And there's not one of them currently working today to the same extent. Most of them are working at all. Because what happened is the town began to change and the kind of stories that were valuable and appreciated and purchased began to change. And I think you have to be willing to change with the times and adapt and grow. If you have anything newer than ten years on your playlist, if you don't have a playlist, if you don't know what it is, you've got a problem. And as things began to go south, I kept saying, try a different genre, try a different form, do novels, do movies, do comics, whatever. And they all said, this is the kind of writer I am, this kind of story that I write. And they couldn't adapt. And they lived in a box and they died in the box. Because that's what boxes are for. And which is why a lot of people play them out early on, sort of, they define themselves to death. And for me, I'm a chameleon. I'm constantly changing. I think it's important to constantly question yourself. And, you know, I wrote Changeling. I had never written a movie before. And that got produced and Clint Eastwood directed it. And because we were a genre guy. We were a mainstream drama. This is, well, that's the whole point. You gotta do something different once in a while. Wow. That's really inspiring.

[19:37]Zibby Owens: I mean, I think sometimes people are afraid to try new things. I mean, I've talked to authors who are, you know, typically, you know, wrote historical fiction and then they were moving into, I don't know, thrillers. And they're like, I don't know, this is so off brand. You know, I feel like there's this pressure to sort of stay in your lane in the literary world sometimes when isn't that the whole point is like, if you're a gifted writer, you should be able to like experiment,

[20:03]J. Michael Straczynski: you know, like you're in a cafeteria and you can take lots of different things as long as you're in the right place. Right? Yeah. And there's economic pressure to be, you know, consistent. There's familial pressure from your peers, why are stepping outside your lane? Right. It's really hard to choose to do that. But it's so essential. And everything beats into everything else. If you write a science fiction script, teaches you how to write about technology, which you can use in a contemporary thriller, which teaches you structural elements you can use in a mainstream drama. Everything feeds into everything else. So it s all part of the same process. And I think if you, that s why we have crop rotation. You can't keep planting the same crops in the same field all the time, And I think writing is no different. You have to constantly be an agent in crop rotation, or in my case, crop rotation probably.

[20:53]Zibby Owens: I hope that was the first time you used that because that was really good. Oh my gosh. Well, what haven't you tried? Like, what are you excited to still do?

[21:04]J. Michael Straczynski: I suck at poetry. I am like the worst person in the world when it comes to just the worst awful doggerel. So I'm gonna go back and try that again. I I I off script wise in a theater, live action plays. And so I like to go back. There's a couple plays I wanted to write for a while now. And one is a Rosencrantz and Gilderstern opposite of Richard the third, oddly enough. There's a couple of other contemporary plays that I wanna write. I'm looking for the new thing. I'm kinda running out of things I haven't tried before. But right now, so poetry and plays are kinda like the thing I'm looking at now.

[21:40]Zibby Owens: You could try a scripted podcast.

[21:43]J. Michael Straczynski: I could do that. I think that would be terrible. Whatever knows. But I think that's the whole point of buying it. You never you never know. Just putting it on the table. Yes. It's just podcast me being on person in person in front of the camera is always I was whenever I appear on a podcast or interview, Homeland Security always gets involved. It's just one one of those things. So I'm better behind the camera than I'm in front of it. We could write it for someone else. Okay. Alright. And that that that I can go along with. Yeah. I didn't mean you had to like be a star. Thank you. You could also you could and the nation thanks you as well.

[22:21]Zibby Owens: So what do you what do you like to do? Like, when you're not trying to innovate on the writing front and movies and all this stuff, like, what do you like to do on the weekends or when you have time off? This is gonna sound weird, but I I don't really have time off. I love what I do. But I'm I'm, by nature, I'm a geek. I am a nerd. I am clumsy.

[22:41]J. Michael Straczynski: I am a jerk. It's but when I'm behind the keyboard, I am I am golden. And so I think I've taken in my entire life two vacations, meaning it was like I had a whole week to myself. The weekends, weekdays, I am behind the keyboard eighteen hours a day every day and have been for my pretty much ever since I turned 18.

[23:06]Zibby Owens: Eighteen hours a day? Yeah. Yeah. Seven days a week? Yeah.

[23:11]J. Michael Straczynski: I love it. I could not possibly love it more. And Wow. I start writing about maybe 07:00 at night, work until about four in the morning, crash for eight hours, get up, spend several hours trying to find my face. And I always find it sad. It's always the same face. If Pringer Tom Cruise's face will show up, and it never does. But during that time, I'm I'm editing, returning phone calls, thinking about the day's work. And then 07:00, the engines turn on, and I just fly on through four in the morning. This is my routine every single day. It's not a burden. It is the most fun I have ever had or ever will have.

[23:48]Zibby Owens: What if what if somebody asks you out to dinner or something? Oh, yeah. I'll go out to dinner, first off,

[23:54]J. Michael Straczynski: be I'll be at dinner and I they're like, I haven't spoken in a long time. I said, where where did you go? So I was working on my my story, and I'm gonna ask to a lot of dinners.

[24:05]Zibby Owens: And see, it gets kind of awkward. And this is this is what I was born to do. This is what I enjoy more than almost anything. It's just it's like the best thing ever. That's amazing. Wow. Well, how great that you found it. I mean, that's awesome. It's just so awesome. Thank you. Love it. Well, this whole thing has basically been advice to aspiring authors. But if there was someone just starting out, what would you what would you tell him or her?

[24:27]J. Michael Straczynski: Don't try to be a writer. Just write. Very often, and this happens to every writer, myself included, you're not quite sure what writing is or how it's supposed to sound. And you often have creative writing teachers to tell you, well, the writing should sound a certain way, it should sound literary. Writing is just talking on the page in your own natural voice. And it's paring away all the other stuff that you think it's supposed to be. It should be natural. It should be fun. It should be easy. Imagine, if you will, old fashioned dance hall. And at one end of the hall is someone who just came out the Arthur Murray Dance School. And he's doing okay. But you can hear him in his head going one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. And then at the other end of the hall, there's Fred Astaire. And he's just dancing. There's trying to dance, and there's dancing. There's trying to write, and there's writing. When it becomes effortless and easy and transparent and translucent, and you're just speaking in your own natural voice, the process becomes luminous and joyful and no longer homework. And I would say, go for the joy of that. Just don't worry about how you're saying it. Just say it. Always edit it later and just have fun with it. Dance.

[25:43]Zibby Owens: Oh, that was great. That was so great. I loved it. I've interviewed like 700 plus people and that's the first time I've thought about it ever that way. So thank you. That was great. Thank you. Okay. Well, again on your book and thanks for coming on my show. My pleasure. Thank you. Glad to be here. Okay. Take care. Bye bye. For listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and momsdonthavetimetoreadbooks. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.