Eleanor Henderson, EVERYTHING I HAVE IS YOURS: A Marriage
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[0:38]Eleanor Henderson is the author of Everything I Have Is Yours, A Marriage.
[0:42]Eleanor grew up in Florida and attended Middlebury College in the University of Virginia,
[0:46]where she earned her MFA.
[0:48]She is the author of two novels, The Twelve Mile Straight and Ten Thousand Saints,
[0:52]which was named one of the ten best books of the year by the New York Times,
[0:56]and was a finalist for the award for first fiction from the Los Angeles Times.
[0:59]Her stories and essays have appeared in publications, including Agni, Ninth Letter, The New York Times,
[1:05]The Wall Street Journal, Poets and Writers, The Virginia Quarterly Review, and The Best American Short Stories.
[1:10]With Anna Solomon, she is also co-editor of Labor Day, True Birth Stories by today's Best Women Writers.
[1:16]Oh gosh, I've never even talked to her about that.
[1:17]Anyway, her memoir Everything I Have Is Yours is published by Flatiron,
[1:21]and she is also the chair of the Writing Department and the Robert Ryan Professor in the Humanities at Ithaca College,
[1:27]where she lives right now with her husband and two cents.
[1:30]Welcome, Eleanor.
[1:31]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:33]On moms, don't have time to read books to discuss everything I have is yours.
[1:38]Thank you.
[1:39]By the way, I loved how on Instagram you actually have the song playing with the reels of your pictures.
[1:44]Oh my gosh, because I didn't know.
[1:46]I mean, I imagined the song, but oh my gosh, it was amazing.
[1:49]It was fun to see that that song was available.
[1:51]I was irresistible.
[1:52]I had to do it.
[1:53]Oh my gosh.
[1:54]Is after I read your book, which by the way was so good.
[1:57]And so, like, I had to actually close the book several times because it got so intense.
[2:03]Like, I was reading and I kept being like, you know, like I can't stop again.
[2:07]My husband being like, are you okay?
[2:08]What's ever like this book?
[2:10]Oh my gosh, this book.
[2:12]Anyway, it like broke my heart 500 times in a row and yet inspired me all the same.
[2:17]And anyway, I was just old over by what you've been through and the way you wrote about it.
[2:24]Wow.
[2:25]Wow.
[2:26]Thanks.
[2:27]Yeah.
[2:28]I mean, that's the kind of experience that I like to have when I'm reading a book.
[2:33]So it's gratifying to hear that.
[2:35]Yes.
[2:36]I mean, your ability to, first of all, how you even remembered all of the things.
[2:42]You're like a fountain of knowledge about even all the medical stuff.
[2:46]I mean, actually, maybe I should back up.
[2:48]Why don't you tell listeners, what do you remember this about?
[2:51]And I can like dive in and, you know, poke around.
[2:54]Yeah.
[2:55]So it's a book about marriage and illness.
[2:58]And it's in a certain way about a kind of journey that my husband and I were on are on have been on for about 10 years.
[3:07]Starting with kind of acute illness that he developed about 10 years ago.
[3:13]And the search for a cure or some understanding of what was happening to him.
[3:19]And then the larger story is really about the kind of read system of our relationship, you know, looking back at the early years and sort of, you know, clues to what might develop over the course of our 24
[3:35]relationship 24 year relationship now.
[3:38]Because it seemed like even though there were some really acute symptoms in this skin illness, there was also a much deeper story about what was happening to him and his body and what it means to witness somebody go through that kind of horror and still, you know, maintain sanity and love and understanding.
[3:59]So, so that's a little bit about what the book is.
[4:03]Well, your compassion and patience and all of it, like, I was like, oh, gosh, like, I kids get sick and I'm like, oh, you know, like, it's just boundless, it seems.
[4:16]Well, I mean, I think I did develop patience, but it was a big learning curve, you know, I think one of the things I wanted to try to write against and this book was, you know, this narrative that even I was trying to tell myself, which was that
[4:32]it was my job to save my husband and that I could save him and I just had to be patient enough and loving enough and I could make him well.
[4:40]And, you know, number one, I wasn't perfectly patient.
[4:44]There were times when I, you know, lost my mind for sure.
[4:48]And two, you know, I didn't really have that ability as hard as I tried as much effort as I put in, you know, I learned that it wasn't my,
[4:56]you know, problem to solve.
[4:59]I think I can say that without spoiling the book.
[5:04]Well, can I, I don't, I don't think it isn't spoiling.
[5:07]I don't know. Can we talk about, well, I feel like that was a huge part of it.
[5:11]Let me find the quote that I wanted to read you about it.
[5:14]I mean, it's not that far in when you talk about his suicide attempt. Can we talk about that.
[5:19]So yeah, I think it's revealed in the first chapter. So yeah, right. Okay.
[5:25]So I wanted to read this section because one of the heartbreaking times, although in a way, it becomes understandable, almost when you describe the pain that your husband is living through, right.
[5:38]In so many ways from trauma to, you know, his memory is to his physical discomfort, which the way you write about it. I like wanted to crawl out of my own skin. I could feel it.
[5:51]And oh my gosh, but you wrote when the person you love tries and fails to end his life, you are glad that he is still living that he failed.
[5:58]There is a kind of embarrassment in that failure, though embarrassment in the company of others who love people who successfully ended their lives.
[6:05]Embarrassment that the person you love is still living embarrassment that he did not succeed.
[6:09]He did not go about suicide seriously. His anguish was not deep enough.
[6:13]You don't have much time for embarrassment, though, because another thing that happens when someone you love tries and fails to end his life that you spend the rest of your life trying to keep him from trying again, trying to create a world in which you will not want to try again.
[6:26]When someone you love tries to end his life, because you took your love away from him, you will spend the rest of your life trying to keep him alive with your love.
[6:35]It happened. Had that read back to me.
[6:37]Yeah, I mean, that was a kind of voice that I was hearing in the months after Aaron made his first suicide attempt.
[6:46]You know, this in a certain way had been my worst fear realized, right? You know, I had this sense that if I try to leave him, he might try to do this.
[6:56]And when he did, it was sort of confirmation of that worry. And yet, you know, I found that I had some more to give to that relationship at that point.
[7:09]In part, because that was a kind of bottom that we reached, right? Like in a way it was like, well, we have gotten to this point where my worst fear is realized.
[7:19]And so it seemed in a kind of way that only way was up. But I did start to notice this, you know, sort of weird whirlwind of feelings of both, of course, and then just relief that the person I love is alive.
[7:34]But also in just talking with people, you know, I know many people who have loved ones who have committed suicide in it. There's an odd distance, I think sometimes between, you know, talking about the person who, you know, took a bunch of pills.
[7:48]And somebody who went to greater lengths and, you know, quote unquote, succeeded.
[7:54]And so I wanted to try to kind of capture, you know, what it was like to continue to live with somebody who is suicidal, because, you know, sometimes when people try, there's the worry that they might get to that point again.
[8:08]So it wasn't a healthy way of, you know, trying to reenter that relationship, but it certainly was a powerful instinct for me, you know, that I could somehow keep them alive if we stayed together and if, you know, we did everything else, right?
[8:23]Well, there's that is just a lot of pressure. Yeah, it's a lot of here to put on yourself on a relationship. I mean, that's just, it's hard to carry, I would think, you know, that's a heavy load to be schlepping around.
[8:37]Yeah, it was an incredibly hard load and, you know, nobody asked me to do it.
[8:43]But I felt, you know, this sort of obligation, I think. And, you know, I write in another parts of the book about my, you know, coming to understand my own codependency, you know, coming to your band, the way that I believe, I might not have admitted that I believe this, but certainly unconsciously deeply.
[9:04]I believe that, you know, taking care of a deeply, at that point, disturbed person would give me in my own life, meaning. And, you know, by that time, I had children with this, this person who I love very much and, and just wanted so fiercely to keep our family, you know, together.
[9:26]It so happens if that is the case, you know, I think those efforts were not for nothing, you know, that I do believe really strongly and the power of love, you know, as cheesy as it sounds, the way that people love each other, it can do a great deal to make life worth living.
[9:45]I do everything, you know, and that's where the title comes in, I guess, right? You can't give everything to somebody else. You can't give them all your oxygen.
[9:53]You need a little bit for yourself. And so that was one of the things that I was working through in my life and in this book was trying to record.
[10:00]I just thought I couldn't keep somebody else alive.
[10:02]And that was hard to accept.
[10:04]It wasn't just Aaron and his mental health,
[10:08]but you also, at times during your story,
[10:11]especially this one moment when you had your sons
[10:15]and you had your father-in-law living with you
[10:17]and you had Aaron and everybody.
[10:19]And you were like, I'm keeping,
[10:20]I'm trying to take care of people at every age group.
[10:23]Like no one is like, I was just like,
[10:26]how is she doing this?
[10:27]This is, anyway, it was the way you presented that
[10:31]and put us in your shoes.
[10:33]While you were literally just like tending to one disaster
[10:36]after another, it was just amazing.
[10:39]Thanks, I mean, I think a lot of people do that.
[10:41]I think a lot of women do it.
[10:43]And but yeah, there was this particular period
[10:46]where there was this confluence of needy people,
[10:48]also needy boys and men for what it's worth,
[10:51]which felt, you know, somewhat unfair.
[10:54]So I had that my father who was needy,
[10:58]six and Aaron who was 46 or whatever.
[11:03]And my sons were like nine and six,
[11:06]I think at the time that I'm writing about.
[11:08]And it did feel like they were all sort of equally able
[11:11]to care for each other.
[11:13]So I could run out for the grocery store or whatever
[11:16]and they would like, I'll keep each other alive
[11:19]and I could text them, you know, to check in on each other.
[11:23]You know, and I think I had some real worry
[11:26]about the fact that maybe something would go wrong,
[11:29]but also it was incredibly hard for me
[11:32]to let go of them, you know.
[11:35]I needed them to meet me in a certain way too.
[11:38]Yeah.
[11:39]Well, let's talk also about the writing
[11:41]because first of all, this is so well written.
[11:44]And second of all, you had so many lines in here
[11:46]where I was just like, oh, that's like a perfect line.
[11:49]So there was one that I wanna like put on a stickier
[11:52]or something like that.
[11:53]You said something like, you were talking about
[11:55]how you were functioning and you said, as a family
[11:58]and you said, all of the things we said were well and good
[12:01]but we were not saying all of the things.
[12:02]Yeah. I just love that.
[12:04]That's like a perfect line FYI.
[12:06]And then you had this other one,
[12:08]the morning after Erin has taken to the psych ward
[12:10]a Saturday.
[12:11]I do the only rational thing
[12:13]which is to descale the Keurig.
[12:14]Absolutely.
[12:15]I mean, it seemed absolutely one thing I could control.
[12:19]It was the thing that everyone's doing.
[12:22]I don't know, I hate to scare at descaling the Keurig.
[12:24]And yeah, it felt like, okay, it's Saturday morning
[12:28]and there's no way I can't even visit my husband for hours,
[12:32]let alone get to do anything about it.
[12:36]So yeah, so I got out the vinegar
[12:39]and gave that thing a really nice shine
[12:41]and drank some very clean coffee and then same time.
[12:46]I'm sorry that was your experience
[12:48]but it did make for an amazing first sentence of the chapter.
[12:52]I will say it.
[12:52]Thank you.
[12:53]I think that's the thing is like, yeah,
[12:56]it's all like, I mean, in addition to only being able
[12:58]to descale the Keurig,
[13:00]the only other thing I could do was write about it, right?
[13:02]And so being able to put language to something
[13:06]that felt difficult and possible, unmanageable,
[13:10]was the way that I was able to get some distance from it
[13:13]to be able to process it.
[13:15]And it did help, you know, it didn't do everything
[13:17]but it did help me and hearing that it's helping others
[13:21]but even on the sentence level is gratifying.
[13:24]And you wrote in this book about your previous book
[13:26]coming out.
[13:27]So when were you finding the time to do this?
[13:30]How were you getting this done?
[13:31]How did you even go about?
[13:33]I mean, it's a lot, it's exhausting to market a book
[13:35]and promote a new book when you don't have all of this stress
[13:38]and trauma and tension and all of the stuff
[13:40]and medical issues and oh my gosh, all this stuff you had
[13:44]and then to then come out with another book.
[13:46]So tell me about 10,000 saints
[13:48]and also like just the writing in general
[13:51]and how you were able to manage all this
[13:53]and all of the good stuff that came with that.
[13:57]Sure, while, you know, writing a memoir was really different
[14:00]but in some ways, you know, I had this sort of reliable routine
[14:04]that I could fall back on from my two novels, 10,000 saints
[14:07]which came out in 2011 and the 12 mile straight
[14:11]which came out in 2017.
[14:13]And it was right after I came back from book tour
[14:15]for my second book that I really just sat down
[14:18]to write this book, it started pouring out.
[14:21]Again, it feels like a little bit like a cliche
[14:23]but it had been sort of stopped up for a while.
[14:25]You know, that many of those years,
[14:27]really all of those years from my first book
[14:29]because it was on my first book tour that Aaron got sick
[14:33]were really very much about managing that illness
[14:37]and it was in the background for a while
[14:39]but it had really moved to the front of our attention
[14:43]by the time my second book came out.
[14:45]And really I felt that I had to work through it.
[14:49]I had to give it the attention that it was asking for
[14:51]in order to, you know, one, begin to process it myself
[14:55]and two, there was really no other space in my imagination
[14:59]for another story.
[15:00]The idea of like making up people seemed kind of preposterous
[15:04]at that time like because I really felt that I had,
[15:07]in some ways been kind of neglecting that story.
[15:11]I mean, even though it was taking up so much of my attention
[15:13]I think I hadn't really admitted to myself
[15:15]that this was a reality.
[15:17]And so when I came back from that book tour,
[15:19]it was on that book tour that Aaron gave me
[15:22]his permission to write the story when I asked him.
[15:25]And really the first night I came back,
[15:28]he had a really bad night on a lot of pretty scary symptoms
[15:33]and it was a typical night.
[15:34]You know, we'd lived hundreds of nights like that
[15:36]and I felt that they were just kind of passing us by
[15:39]and I didn't really know what to do with them
[15:41]except for sort of grab it
[15:42]and put it down for the next morning.
[15:44]I wrote that chapter called Bad Night,
[15:46]which opens the book.
[15:47]And then I was able to rely on a somewhat consistent
[15:52]writing schedule.
[15:53]I kind of felt like I was writing for my life in part
[15:55]because I wanted to get it down in another part,
[15:58]another way because I was getting paid for it.
[16:00]You know, after some months of working on it,
[16:03]I was able to get a contract with Meghan Lynch,
[16:05]a wonderful editor who was holding my hand
[16:07]through the process.
[16:09]And so I really felt that, okay,
[16:10]well, someone's paying me for this
[16:11]and I'm the only one in my family working right now
[16:14]and I need to be able to finish it.
[16:16]And, you know, in another way,
[16:18]it gave me something to do with all of the stress of,
[16:22]you know, having so much to manage
[16:23]and the pain of watching Aaron being in pain.
[16:26]And so I would often sit down and write early in the mornings,
[16:30]you know, when my kids are sleeping,
[16:32]they're a little older now so they sleep in a little later,
[16:34]thankfully, but, you know, like getting up at sometimes
[16:38]4.45 and 5 o'clock in the morning
[16:40]to write for an hour or two before they were awake.
[16:43]And, you know, books get written that way.
[16:45]I knew that from experience.
[16:47]Just one thing I had to fall back on
[16:49]that I could put together pages from waking up
[16:52]in the morning and trying to kind of recount
[16:54]what had happened the previous day.
[16:56]So it became a kind of diary,
[16:57]really the only diary I've ever kept.
[16:59]Well, you mentioned at the beginning
[17:02]that this is the kind of book you'd like to read.
[17:04]So what are there some that stick out to you
[17:08]as ones that sort of move you as much
[17:10]as this one probably moved me?
[17:12]Yeah, that's a good question.
[17:14]I mean, I have definitely books, you know,
[17:16]that I turned to that were sort of close to the genre
[17:20]of this book.
[17:21]And I've talked quite a bit about books
[17:23]like The Collected Skits of Frinias,
[17:25]by As Anyways, You're In Wing,
[17:27]and Sick by Poor Cheestuck, which were very helpful
[17:31]and powerful to me in writing this book, you know,
[17:33]because they're about these sort of compounding,
[17:36]chronic and mental illnesses.
[17:39]And I've talked a little bit about marriage memoirs,
[17:42]which I really love, like Danny Shapiro's Hourglass
[17:46]and Diane Ackerman's, Hundred Names for Love.
[17:49]You know, there are definitely kind of touchstones
[17:52]that I had, but it's a good question
[17:54]in terms of the intensity, you know,
[17:56]that I often am looking for in a book.
[17:58]I mean, it's fair to say that I was,
[18:01]I also look for intensity and like partners.
[18:04]And so, you know, I'm often looking for the thing
[18:06]that will really just make me feel a lot, you know?
[18:09]And that's a great question.
[18:11]What's a book that's really made me feel deeply?
[18:13]I mean, this is something that probably most
[18:16]of your readers have read quite a while ago,
[18:18]but The Glass Castle by Jeanette Wall.
[18:20]You know, probably the book that most riveted me recently,
[18:24]you know, it's also written and actually I'm not positive
[18:26]about this, but it feels to me like it's first person present.
[18:30]Actually might be the past tense,
[18:31]but it feels as though I'm there with her experiencing
[18:34]the intimate dynamics of that family, you know,
[18:38]and there's also probably still illness
[18:40]and her family and her parents,
[18:42]but she doesn't have to name it really, you know,
[18:45]you just sort of experience the high of being in that family,
[18:50]you know, it's a family that has experienced so much
[18:53]and yet there's love there, you know,
[18:55]underneath all of the insanity.
[18:58]So that's the kind of feeling, I think, that I like to,
[19:02]you know, try to achieve on the page
[19:04]and also that I love to read.
[19:06]Yeah.
[19:06]You might like Stephanie Thornton,
[19:08]Plimeo is American daughter, have you heard of that book?
[19:10]I don't think so.
[19:11]It's really good.
[19:12]She grew up in like literally eating seaweed
[19:15]on the beach, abandoned by her parents
[19:17]and she goes through all this stuff and she, her mother
[19:20]and I don't know, it's really, I don't know.
[19:23]I just, from a feeling standpoint, it's the one that came
[19:27]to mind that, you know.
[19:28]Oh my gosh, most made me like physically react.
[19:31]Yeah, you know, that detail is the seaweed on the beach.
[19:34]I can see why that would stay with you.
[19:36]Well, and then one that should have been at the top of my mind
[19:40]because I'm doing an event with her tonight.
[19:42]You know, you know, Renata Aaron and her.
[19:45]Yes.
[19:46]Our Good Morning Destroyer of Men's Souls.
[19:47]I mean, that book just scorched me.
[19:49]You know, it's so, yes, honest.
[19:53]And it's, you know, dark in a way that feels like
[19:57]and because it's true, but, you know, they're.
[20:00]definitely moments and scenes I remember from that book that
[20:03]give me the chills and remind me that I'm alive and she's
[20:07]an incredibly incisive writer. Yeah.
[20:11]She wrote for my anthology, my first anthology, actually.
[20:14]Yeah. Tell her I said, amazing. So like, oh, I just wanted to ask
[20:20]also, how is Aaron? Like, how is he now? Like, have any medical people
[20:25]like come out of the woodwork after this book is out there to be like,
[20:28]oh, wait, let me help. Not yet. I mean, I have to admit that there was like
[20:32]a little fantasy that that might happen. No. I mean, there have been quite a few
[20:36]people even in the few days. It's been out who have written emails
[20:40]about what they think is wrong with Aaron. Not necessarily.
[20:43]Which is so expected. He's doing well. Thank you for asking. He is doing well.
[20:49]He has not had one of the incredibly terrifying episodes that he was
[20:55]having regularly in about 18 months in a knock on this desk.
[21:00]Oh, knock on mine. We don't really know why. I have some guesses.
[21:06]But he's well and he's sober, which I don't take for granted.
[21:10]And I feel very, very lucky. Yeah, every day that he is in my life. You know,
[21:15]he just, when he's well, he is so present. And so he gives
[21:20]so much to our family. So I'm feeling very grateful about that.
[21:24]It's amazing. Yeah. And what about your writing now?
[21:26]Are you continuing this diary? Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not.
[21:31]But there was a little bit of a loss, I think, that I experienced when I
[21:36]was done. You know, I mean, there was always that question about, okay, when
[21:40]does this end? How does this end? Because life just goes on in the same
[21:44]way that it did on the last page. So I'm not continuing the diary.
[21:48]But I really, you know, found something and nonfiction that I'm quite
[21:52]taken with. And so I don't think that I will say goodbye to it forever.
[21:57]But I don't think the next book will be nonfiction. I'm not sure.
[22:00]But I think I'm eager to get back to my imagination.
[22:05]So though escaping to another place, I think will be the next thing.
[22:10]I just don't know where. Yeah. Well, you certainly have no lack of material to dig through
[22:16]of externalize all that emotion. And someone recently taught me the term auto fiction,
[22:22]where it's like the emotions are there of yourself. But the story is not. So I don't know.
[22:28]Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my first my two novels were so far outside of my experience that I really
[22:33]wanted to take a U-turn. And I really, you know, did for the first time right about myself really
[22:38]intimately. And yeah, so I wonder if maybe the next project will be, you know, somewhere in between.
[22:46]Yeah. So what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[22:50]The question. My first piece of advice to my students, they don't always love to hear
[22:55]is to read as much as they can in and around the kind of work that they want to do. But also,
[23:01]you know, reading things that push them and challenge them. And I would advise them to
[23:09]subscribe to some literary magazines and do their part as literary citizens to try to
[23:15]support their local bookstores and, you know, become involved in the literary community that's
[23:20]certainly right around them. In terms of, you know, sort of craft beyond that and, and, you know,
[23:27]developing a career beyond that, you know, I think good work almost always finds an audience,
[23:34]right? So spending time on cultivating a writing practice that works for you. And it's something that
[23:42]I would suggest that, for me, you know, when I was a younger writer trying to figure that out,
[23:47]often meant saying no to more things, you know, like not going to the party. I have a very good
[23:54]memory of like right after college being in New York City and being very excited to go out to
[24:00]friends, party and Brooklyn or something. And then realizing like halfway through the party that
[24:04]like, I really just wanted to be writing. And so I said, bye, I am going to go home and write
[24:09]and everybody sort of looked at me like I had like five eyes. And then I've always sort of gone
[24:14]back to that moment of like, you have to just sometimes leave the party. And that's sort of made
[24:18]pretty well. I mean, I like parties too, but you have to sometimes say no, I have a date, a hot date
[24:24]with my MacBook or my notebook. And, you know, just get used to the loneliness of being with your own
[24:31]thoughts, you know, it can be a rich place if you spend enough time there. So I don't know all
[24:36]that feels kind of paternalistic, but I think it's. No, no, I just interviewed last week,
[24:42]honoree Jeffers, honoree Fanon Jeffers, who are the love songs, W the Du Bois. Anyway,
[24:47]her advice was just tell people you have a meeting. Like, nobody ever gives anybody any pushback
[24:52]if you say I have a meeting. Yeah, that's so right. It's like, if you're like, oh no, I have to,
[24:56]you know, edit my menus, you have to, you know, people could be like, whatever, you know,
[25:01]my art is calling. That doesn't make many friends yet. Yeah, no respect. But, you know,
[25:06]whatever that meeting is, okay, it happens to me with yourself. But like, you know, it's okay.
[25:11]Yeah. Well, Eleanor, thank you for sharing all of the stuff that you shared, all of it,
[25:18]and that you didn't, I mean, you may have stuff you didn't put on the table in this book, but
[25:23]there's so much history, your family is Aaron's family. All your kids, I mean, it's a sign of so
[25:33]much respect for the reader that you would like trust us all with it. And I really appreciate that
[25:40]because it was really, really powerful. And I'm just so glad to have like been in your shoes
[25:46]for a little bit reading it. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. You know, there are days
[25:50]where I wake up going like, what have I done? And so, you know, hearing that you're reading that
[25:57]as a respect for the reader is a big gift. So thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Well, best of
[26:03]luck. And I'll be, I mean, honestly, thinking of you in the back of my head as I go through,
[26:07]wondering how you and your family are doing and hoping that things stay good.
[26:11]Doing okay. Yeah. Thanks for reading and for talking with me. Of course. Thank you. Bye.
[26:17]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[26:23]follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign
[26:28]up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[26:33]on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound for the
[26:37]sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[26:42]now trim music.