Bethany Crandell, SEE JANE SNAP
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[0:35]Okay, now back to this amazing podcast.
[0:37]Bethany Crandall is the author of C.J.N. Snap.
[0:41]She's also the author of The Jake Ryan Complex,
[0:43]and lives in San Diego with her husband, teenage daughters,
[0:46]and two destructive puppies.
[0:47]Bethany loves guacamole after new naps and eye rolls.
[0:50]Welcome, Bethany.
[0:51]Thanks so much for coming on Momstone Have Time to Read Books,
[0:54]to discuss C.J.N. Snap.
[0:56]Thank you.
[0:57]I'm so excited to be here.
[0:58]Thanks for having me.
[0:59]By the way, when I realized how this cover,
[1:02]like why this cover was this cover, I was like,
[1:04]oh, anyway.
[1:07]I know when they was in zine team sent me the cover,
[1:10]the first mock-ups, that was the first one that showed up,
[1:13]and I completely lost it.
[1:15]I was hysterically laughing at my desk.
[1:17]And this is perfect.
[1:18]I don't need to see any others.
[1:20]It's perfect.
[1:21]So I know.
[1:22]And readers will get it once they read.
[1:24]Yes, readers will get it.
[1:26]It will become obvious.
[1:27]So tell listeners, if you don't mind,
[1:30]give them your little elevator pitch
[1:31]about what C.J.N. Snap is about.
[1:34]Okay, so this is a story of Jane Osborne.
[1:37]She's a 39-year-old mom and wife to a very prominent surgeon.
[1:42]She thinks she's living a very comfortable, stable life.
[1:47]It's the life she always wanted.
[1:50]But it isn't actually real.
[1:52]Her husband confesses to her after 18 years of marriage
[1:55]that he is gay.
[1:57]And has been cheating their entire marriage.
[1:59]But because of some mitigating factors at the hospital
[2:03]where he works, he can't divulge that,
[2:05]or he could, I mean, it could have some devastating impacts
[2:09]on his career and in turn this life she's come to depend on.
[2:13]So they have to kind of put on a pretty face for the world
[2:17]and try to convince everybody that they are the word in June,
[2:21]they appear to be.
[2:22]So Jane slaps on a smile and does her best
[2:25]to pretend everything is okay.
[2:27]But inside she's slowly starting to crack.
[2:30]The line just gets to be too much for her.
[2:32]And eventually she loses it.
[2:34]She has a very entertaining breakdown in a parking lot
[2:39]that lands her in a jail cell.
[2:42]And eventually she's put into this environment
[2:45]with a bunch of women who are not like the women she encounters
[2:50]on a daily basis, the people that she thought were her friends.
[2:54]Now she's kind of in this different world
[2:56]where people are calling her out on what her life really is like
[3:00]and how it's not at all what she thought it was
[3:03]or even the life she really wanted.
[3:06]And so ultimately she has to determine if having that life
[3:11]that she only dreamed of is worth the trade-off for her happiness.
[3:15]That's the long version.
[3:16]The short version is.
[3:18]No, no.
[3:19]Long version was perfect.
[3:20]The long version was perfect.
[3:24]Wow.
[3:24]So by the way, and I just before I forget,
[3:27]I actually know a kid named Blaze by the way.
[3:29]But there's a character.
[3:30]Yeah, he goes to school with one of my kids.
[3:32]Anyway, he's throwing that out there.
[3:34]Yes, so when I told my daughter,
[3:37]so sometimes when I'm reading a book I share with my kids
[3:40]like what it's about or they're asking me or whatever.
[3:42]So I was telling him about your book, my daughter who's eight.
[3:45]And I was like, yeah, did it out of the seven to seven.
[3:47]And then it turned out that the dad liked men.
[3:49]And she just looks knowingly and it goes Freddie Mercury.
[3:55]Like how did you even know that?
[3:57]Anyway, the things kids say.
[3:59]So anyway, as I said, like right before we started,
[4:01]like I just knew I would like you because this book is so funny.
[4:05]Like I love your sense of humor.
[4:06]I love the way you see things how you have us like, you know,
[4:10]in James head at the lunch and like what she's thinking
[4:14]and the other moms and how you poke fun at everything.
[4:16]I mean, it's just really funny.
[4:18]I mean, life is even in the worst of circumstances.
[4:22]There is something I'm using there.
[4:24]Even if it's just to get you through it, right?
[4:26]You have to be able to tap into something or we'd all go mad.
[4:30]So I'm glad that you appreciate that.
[4:33]And I just feel like all of us are just like a little bit away
[4:37]from doing what Jane does in the parking lot.
[4:40]Like we're all just like hovering on the line of losing it.
[4:43]And I think that's why this is so perfect.
[4:45]I'm on that every day.
[4:48]I mean, and it's so funny because some days it's like this huge thing
[4:52]that feels like it could send you over another days.
[4:54]It's it truly would be somebody not putting their cart in the brow.
[4:59]Yeah, I mean, yeah, I straddle that line every day.
[5:03]I think most moms probably do.
[5:05]But yeah, it's it's amazing how close we feel like we are.
[5:10]I mean, I don't know how the people know that, you know, that, you know,
[5:13]it's just you had like good thing for executive function or I don't know what it is
[5:17]in our brains that like pull it back at the last second.
[5:20]But, you know, there are days though, and I will pull it back if it's around
[5:24]people I don't know.
[5:25]But when I come home, it's like, oh, yeah, you know, the park gates open
[5:30]because it's that safe place.
[5:31]Yeah, yeah, I think at least the women I know in my world and now you,
[5:36]we are all hovering very close to that, you know, comfortable place
[5:41]and committing homicide.
[5:42]But yeah, it's very hard.
[5:45]It's a fine, fine line.
[5:46]Yeah, I definitely had moments around like, oh, I get why people might commit this crime.
[5:51]Like I get it.
[5:52]I could see, I could see if you had a little less in both control.
[5:56]Okay, so also this secret, right?
[6:00]The secret that her husband is keeping from her and the way she discovers it
[6:04]and the drama of that moment and the realization and the, you know,
[6:08]devastation and all of those feelings that you have James or go into in the
[6:12]book.
[6:13]Where is that coming from?
[6:14]How are you tapping into that?
[6:15]Like how did you decide on this?
[6:17]How did you decide on the whole plot, to be honest?
[6:20]I mean, well, so I, my books always start as a title and the story
[6:25]kind of builds around it.
[6:27]Now there must be some kernel of an idea somewhere in my head,
[6:30]but I do have my best thinking under the hair dryer.
[6:33]And as you can see, nobody else can.
[6:34]I have a lot of hair.
[6:35]But I, I kind of lose myself in the white noise.
[6:38]And so I remember one day last fall winter at this DJing snap,
[6:43]I was like, oh, I like that.
[6:44]So you know, quickly text my critique partner.
[6:46]I'm like, I got this title.
[6:48]Now here, you know, my use, it's to start running wild.
[6:51]And it just kind of built like what kinds of things would make a middle-aged
[6:55]woman she raises her hand all apart and, you know, lose it.
[6:59]And so I start thinking of all these things that make me jump
[7:04]like that.
[7:06]And then it just kind of started evolving.
[7:08]I wish I could put a finger on it and say, oh, was this it was that I don't,
[7:13]I don't know specifically it just, you know, story start to create themselves.
[7:18]But I do have a little personal experience, not in this exact situation.
[7:23]But yeah, my parents split up after 24 years of marriage.
[7:27]And out of the blue and that was initiated by my mom.
[7:30]And I think it was a devastating choice that she had to meet.
[7:34]And it was, you know, gutted her because, and my dad was totally shocked and never sought coming.
[7:40]It was just disruptive to the whole world.
[7:43]And I think it was, I know it was a difficult decision for her.
[7:47]And it probably was a long time coming because when you make those choices,
[7:51]it's not just you.
[7:52]I mean, this is it's trickle down to the, you know, hundredth degree here.
[7:57]It's it spreads out into children and in laws and it's like the whole dichotomy
[8:03]of your world gets disrupted.
[8:05]And so I didn't realize I was tapping into that element until I started writing.
[8:10]I was like, oh, my gosh, these are some of those feelings.
[8:12]I think my, my parents probably experienced and my dad's nothing like Dan.
[8:16]Wonderful, wonderful guy and not selfish or anything like that.
[8:20]But I think those feelings were very, they resonated with me in that respect.
[8:24]And then also I wrote this majority of this book in quarantine.
[8:28]And so it was pretty easy at points to feel stressed into feel the anxiety that
[8:35]Dean was feeling.
[8:36]And there's no escape when you're all trapped in the same house together.
[8:41]You can't step away from your stressful manuscript and find relaxation because it's like,
[8:46]oh, God, they're all still here and they want me more than ever.
[8:50]And I'm, you know, jumping at the bit here and crawl out of my skin or do something
[8:55]because of this scene I just wrote.
[8:57]And there's no escape.
[8:59]And so yeah, I mean, it just kind of snowballed and it was a perfect storm.
[9:03]And my, my own experience writing this book was definitely more challenging than other books
[9:09]because of the circumstances around us.
[9:11]But I think it made Jane that much more authentic because I was feeling it when she was doing it.
[9:17]You could tell.
[9:18]I mean, you could tell.
[9:19]I mean, really, it's, we were in it with Jane.
[9:22]And I love that.
[9:23]Yes.
[9:24]It's a little older, your kids.
[9:25]You don't have to say if you don't feel comfortable.
[9:27]No, 18.
[9:28]The started college last week and my little one is 16.
[9:31]Oh.
[9:32]Yeah.
[9:33]Wow.
[9:34]I was also telling my daughter about the dot Jane's daughter.
[9:36]And she's like, well, she just doesn't sound like a good person.
[9:38]And I'm like, I don't know.
[9:40]You don't think graffiti at all the treble she was getting in.
[9:42]So, but I was like, yeah, she just doesn't really seem to like her mom at all.
[9:46]She's like, well, that's terrible.
[9:47]I'm like, isn't it?
[9:48]It's, it's verbal.
[9:50]But there was a lot of me in Avery, the daughter.
[9:53]I'm, I'm the youngest of three.
[9:55]And so when I was 16, I think when my parents put up and I.
[10:00]was mad and I, you know, rebelled against both of them.
[10:04]And they just loved me harder and harder than, you know,
[10:07]it was nothing but love and support and encouragement.
[10:09]And they knew it was hard and gave me miles of room, you know,
[10:14]too, but never did I doubt that they loved me and they were there.
[10:18]And of course I worked through that, but you just don't know.
[10:21]I think kids, they only know this little world that you've created.
[10:25]And so as parents, you want to protect them from everything that might hurt them.
[10:31]But it's at some point the self-sacrifice has to give away to self-cleveration.
[10:36]And so yeah, I don't know how it went on that.
[10:39]No, no, it's fine.
[10:40]My parents split up and I was 14 and, you know,
[10:43]it's a really interesting time to have your home life, you know,
[10:47]sort of shatter right as you're trying to figure out who you are and friendships and, you know,
[10:51]identity and like everything is under a microscope in high school, right?
[10:55]And so yeah, it's just a tricky, not that any time is particularly amazing.
[10:59]But nobody, and I remember both my sisters had left for college.
[11:03]And I was so mad and we think that I was left here with them all by myself, you know,
[11:07]and it was, yeah, I felt bad.
[11:11]My brother is a couple years younger.
[11:12]And when I went to college, I felt so guilty, you know, I was like, I'm so sorry.
[11:16]He didn't even care. I mean, he didn't care.
[11:17]But I felt that, you know, boy, right?
[11:21]But yeah, I mean, I don't know.
[11:22]Maybe I won't talk for him because he wouldn't like them, but anyway.
[11:25]And I also like, you know, not to keep going back to this sort of title and cover and all this stuff,
[11:30]but seeing Jane snap and having the rubber band around her wrist as actual snapping.
[11:36]Oh, you do it too. Yeah.
[11:37]Right. Mostly for my hair, but I, I find myself tugging on that for sure.
[11:42]Yeah. All these ways of dealing with anxiety, right?
[11:45]Because life seems to be just a series of coping mechanisms.
[11:49]Yes. That's so true.
[11:52]I'm like, I'll try this. I'll try that.
[11:55]You know, you have any weird ones.
[12:01]You know, I've gotten into this like breathing, but not in the way everybody says,
[12:05]I was taking breath minus more like, I'm hyperventilating.
[12:08]So I, so I like, after literally like, I like, hold my chest down as if I'm like, in a fly away from stress.
[12:18]So I was thinking opposite.
[12:21]I hold my breath until I pass out.
[12:23]And then I just don't have to do it in me.
[12:25]Exactly.
[12:26]Wait. So tell me your, your story, like, how did you become an author to begin with?
[12:31]What made you start writing books? Like, how did you, where did you grow up?
[12:35]Like, what's your, what's the, what's your story?
[12:37]The spiel. I've always been kind of a creative minded kid, always loved to write,
[12:42]but never really did anything with it.
[12:44]I remember in ninth grade, we had a student teacher in history class.
[12:50]And one of the assignments she gave us had something to do with the Pelican Legion war.
[12:54]I couldn't remember anything else about it, but I decided to make a book like a children's book.
[13:00]And I illustrated it, which is funny because I don't draw.
[13:03]But anyway, I spent hours and hours and hours on this book.
[13:07]And I am, it was not a good student.
[13:09]I was never academically motivated, but this project I was like, yes,
[13:13]I get to create something.
[13:14]And I remember she said, Mrs. Smiley, Mrs. Smiley said, you should write a book.
[13:19]And I was like, oh, okay.
[13:21]Tuck that away. And then I guess I was 34.
[13:26]My little one was two.
[13:28]And she had just been diagnosed with cerebral palsy.
[13:31]And the, yeah, the diagnosis wasn't a surprise because, you know, you're there with your kids,
[13:36]you see them missing milestones and whatever, whatever.
[13:39]It's something sort of resonated, I guess, once there was a label on it.
[13:43]And I was having to go to all these evaluations because there are different services and
[13:49]different things you have to get involved with.
[13:52]And I felt like I was kind of starting to be labeled as mom to a child with disability.
[14:01]And there are some moms and dads in that role that are these amazing advocates.
[14:06]And I truly believe they were gifted with that, you know, that gene to be able to do that.
[14:13]I'm not one of those people.
[14:14]I can speak up for my kid, but that's just, I'm not, that's not what I'm called to do, I don't think.
[14:19]But I didn't know who I was.
[14:21]And I knew I was more than that cause mom.
[14:25]I didn't want to just be this, you know, mom to a disabled kid.
[14:29]So I reached out to a creative coach.
[14:33]I had worked with her years before, before I had kids did some classes like the artist way,
[14:37]Julie, cameras on his way, phenomenal.
[14:40]And some that she worked out, she had set up.
[14:42]So I reached out to her and said, I'm struggling.
[14:45]Is there anything creative you can direct me to her?
[14:47]And she's like, let's start writing.
[14:49]So for about a year, I just would for 15 minutes a day on my lunch hour, I would start writing.
[14:54]And I would send her my stuff.
[14:56]And she finally, when they said, I think he needs to write a book.
[14:59]And I was like, I don't know if I can, I wasn't a big reader at that point.
[15:02]And it just felt huge.
[15:04]And then she told me, you know, there's a statistic that of all the people in the world
[15:09]that set out to write a book, 85% of them quit before they finish.
[15:15]Only 15% of people actually finish a book on this.
[15:17]I didn't know that.
[15:18]That's an interesting statistic.
[15:20]And it may have changed.
[15:21]I don't know if this is now.
[15:22]I like it.
[15:23]I know.
[15:23]I'll put you on this.
[15:26]It's motivating.
[15:27]But yeah, I'm a competitive person by nature.
[15:31]Boy, I was like, yes, what I'm going to do.
[15:35]And then started from there.
[15:36]And I started to realize, you know, you can write and be in control.
[15:41]And that was the thing I was missing is this was happening to my kiddo.
[15:46]And it was happening to all of us.
[15:47]And this was not the life I anticipated.
[15:50]And I had to let go of all these plans and dreams and aspirations I had for her
[15:54]because she wasn't typically developing.
[15:57]But this was a world I could control.
[15:59]And so it kind of fed into that need to feel like I at least had some kind of people.
[16:04]Wow.
[16:06]So then what happened next?
[16:09]So I did happen next.
[16:11]I started writing a book and I submitted it to agents way before I should have.
[16:17]I mean, I'm going to get an agent.
[16:19]That's going to be as big as twilight.
[16:20]Like in my head, it was this full.
[16:23]It's going to be amazing.
[16:24]Well, projection, rejection, rejection, rejection.
[16:26]But I just kept writing.
[16:27]And I ended up selling my second completed manuscript.
[16:30]It's a young adult novel called Summer on the Shortbus.
[16:33]And it's a very irreverent look at a teenage girl who's, you know, spoiled,
[16:40]rich kid who gets into trouble and gets sent to work at a summer camp from kids with special
[16:45]needs.
[16:45]And it's sort of a not even coming of age.
[16:48]I would say it's a slap in the face to the kind of life she'd been living.
[16:52]And so then I was writing young adult books for seven years, eight years,
[16:56]working.
[16:57]I had two different agents, both there were issues personally within that took them out of the
[17:02]industry.
[17:03]And, but it was just, you know, more rejections.
[17:06]And I was writing and my, my writing was growing for sure.
[17:10]As a writer, I was growing stronger.
[17:11]But I, I guess I just didn't find the right next thing, you know.
[17:17]So it's about three years ago now.
[17:20]I, my, my second agent was leaving the industry, or at least that role in the industry.
[17:26]And I had had this just finished manuscript data to her.
[17:30]We were about ready to shop it.
[17:31]And I had been struggling for years about, I have a really deep love for
[17:38]John Hughes movies.
[17:40]And 16 candles was my all time.
[17:43]And Jake Ryan was like, uh, love my everything.
[17:48]So for years, I had been toying with this idea of writing a story about a woman who
[17:53]can't get over her childhood teenage crush, basically.
[17:56]So I was like, you know what?
[17:58]I'm at this point where we're not selling any more young adult books.
[18:01]My agent's leaving.
[18:02]I want to further my career.
[18:04]I want to keep doing this.
[18:05]I just want to keep having the opportunity to write and get better and grow.
[18:09]I think I'm just going to take a leap here and shift gears and write
[18:13]wooden fiction and just see what happens.
[18:15]So I pounded this book out kind of fall doing it.
[18:18]It was the first book I've ever written that I wanted to read.
[18:21]Mm hmm.
[18:22]All the others were good and I enjoyed them, but I wouldn't pick them up off shelf.
[18:26]They were just not what I wanted to read.
[18:28]I had so much fun writing this book.
[18:30]And I went out and shopped it to agents and got a couple of offers and signed with the
[18:35]phenomenal agent who I just adore.
[18:37]And we sold it right away.
[18:39]And that was it.
[18:40]And so it was a two-book deal.
[18:42]And thankfully, my agent or my editor was wise enough because I had this whole idea of,
[18:48]I'm going to do this whole series spinoff on like John Hughes inspired, you know,
[18:53]shift them up a little bit.
[18:55]And she was like, that's fine if you want to do that for your second book.
[18:58]But I think you're capable of something bigger and something more like book clubby.
[19:04]You know, something you can really get in there and sink your teeth into and
[19:08]dig around a little bit.
[19:09]And I said, well, I've kind of got this idea about this woman who has a midlife crisis,
[19:14]which finds out her husband's age called St. James Snapp.
[19:16]And she's like, that's it.
[19:18]That's the book.
[19:19]You run with it.
[19:20]So that's how it came to be.
[19:22]And so now I've got all kinds of really horrible ideas in my head about,
[19:27]you know, things I can do to middle-aged women and how I can share our stories because
[19:32]I think we all share them frankly.
[19:34]But that's kind of my story.
[19:37]I love it.
[19:38]Oh my gosh.
[19:39]Wow.
[19:39]Wait.
[19:40]So what's the second one going to be?
[19:41]So the second one is Jane.
[19:43]Are you mean, I'm sorry.
[19:44]So the first book I sold is called the Jake Ryan Complex.
[19:47]And that was part of the two book deal.
[19:49]And so the second book in that deal was St. James Snapp.
[19:52]So right now I'm finishing up another one that I would pitch it as good girls,
[19:58]meets golden girls.
[20:00]with a twist of sweet magnolias.
[20:03]It's female bonding for sure, highly emotional.
[20:07]That's what I write.
[20:09]I am a true dancer, so it's all about
[20:11]what my stomach's feeling.
[20:13]And a little bit of ass kicking, which is fun.
[20:15]I think I'm getting inspired by some of these fun books
[20:18]that are out right now, like dial A for aunties.
[20:21]I know you have her aunties.
[20:22]Yeah, I love that.
[20:23]That was just a fun reason.
[20:24]That was really fun, yep.
[20:25]Plotting things is fun, right?
[20:27]And reading Finley Donovan is killing it right now.
[20:30]Which is fun.
[20:31]I wouldn't say that it's a capable necessarily,
[20:34]but it's plotting and it's revenge and it's fun.
[20:37]So it's a little departure from Jane,
[20:39]but not to the degree where you're gonna be like,
[20:42]who wrote this?
[20:43]It's definitely still my spin.
[20:45]That's so funny.
[20:46]You said that I'm at still magnolias,
[20:47]because I haven't thought about that
[20:49]maybe in a long time.
[20:50]And literally the minute before I did this podcast,
[20:52]I was sending an email to describe something.
[20:54]And I was like, it's a mix of this and still magnolias.
[20:58]Oh!
[20:58]And then like, here you are, like 20 minutes later.
[21:01]Life is so weird.
[21:02]Every now and then I'll have this little voice in my head
[21:05]saying, it was Wiza.
[21:06]Wiza did it.
[21:07]And I'm just looking at random little,
[21:11]and that past wasn't it.
[21:13]Amazing.
[21:14]That to me, it's like nine to five.
[21:16]It's just seeing all of that.
[21:17]I love nine to five, too.
[21:19]I feel like we have the same exact movie taste,
[21:21]basically, we could just like go to not that it's so unique,
[21:23]but you don't still feel at all.
[21:26]First of all, Heather, yeah.
[21:28]Amazing, so exciting.
[21:29]So what advice would you have for aspiring authors
[21:32]of this fight?
[21:33]Gosh, first of all, don't quit,
[21:35]because that's the only way to know you'll never make it quit.
[21:39]It takes a long time, doesn't necessarily,
[21:42]some people sell right away,
[21:43]but it takes a long time to get to know your voice as an author.
[21:46]I think, once it was Stephen King has a quote
[21:49]that it takes a million words to figure out who you are.
[21:52]And I think I hit a million words about the time
[21:54]I shifted here since started writing women's fiction.
[21:57]If I look back on everything I've done.
[21:59]So you just have to keep practicing.
[22:02]It's all practiced.
[22:03]And as soon as you stop, you're not gonna grow anymore.
[22:06]So you just keep writing.
[22:08]I would say for sure, nothing is ever wasted, nothing.
[22:12]Even if the book doesn't sell,
[22:14]or if you think it's garbage and you will,
[22:17]you're gonna think it's garbage half the time,
[22:19]if not more, it's rubbish, that's just how we think.
[22:22]But it's all valuable.
[22:24]All helps grow you as an author.
[22:26]And you are an author.
[22:28]We'll see that too.
[22:29]I remember I went to my first writer's conference
[22:31]and I felt like an imposter.
[22:34]I felt like a little kid in my mom's high heels
[22:37]with a big bag on my shoulder.
[22:39]Like I don't belong here and everybody knows it
[22:40]because I haven't even finished a full main strip.
[22:43]And I remember one of the keynote speakers saying,
[22:46]if you're writing and you're committed to this,
[22:48]you are an author and it was empowering.
[22:51]and you just have to believe in yourself
[22:55]and that you can get better.
[22:57]All right.
[22:58]And my last question for the mom out there today
[23:00]who feels like she's about to snap.
[23:02]What are you gonna say to her?
[23:04]Girl, I'm with you.
[23:07]You are not alone.
[23:08]You know, I'm super passive aggressive with stuff.
[23:11]So I don't like confrontation.
[23:13]So I don't confront people when I see them leave their shopping
[23:16]part.
[23:17]It really is a problem for me.
[23:18]I'm not.
[23:19]But boy, you guys have stepped under my breath
[23:21]when I get in the car.
[23:22]I would encourage people to let it out somewhere.
[23:25]See, I scream a lot in my car by myself
[23:28]if I'm really having a moment.
[23:30]There's an old 80s movie.
[23:31]You're probably familiar with it.
[23:32]Summer school where this guy would scream.
[23:34]Oh my gosh, Mark.
[23:35]I'm in the attention breaker, that would be done.
[23:37]And I do that by myself.
[23:39]And it just getting it out is so helpful.
[23:42]Talk to your girls, your girlfriend's about it.
[23:44]Or I don't know, go get a frozen yogurt.
[23:46]Something to kind of remove yourself in the situation.
[23:49]But if anybody's riding that ledge today,
[23:52]just know, you know, there are so many of us there with you.
[23:55]And I truly hope your supply of oranges
[23:58]is always substantial.
[24:00]Everybody needs those oranges.
[24:01]I think what you should do is if you haven't already,
[24:04]but you need to have a site where women anonymously
[24:08]can come in and type what's making them snap today.
[24:11]Oh my gosh, that's brilliant.
[24:13]I love that.
[24:14]Yeah, you should just like put it up right today or something.
[24:16]Because like I could, and it could be anonymous, right?
[24:18]But like this is it, and then we just like bent,
[24:21]we have it there and maybe people can come in
[24:23]or maybe just live on the site.
[24:25]But it's just about getting it out.
[24:27]Yeah, it's just you just have to get it out.
[24:29]Yeah. And then you see the other people
[24:31]and then they laugh, right?
[24:32]And we see each other in all of those moments.
[24:34]Or I almost did this, right?
[24:35]I almost did that.
[24:37]Anyway, I think the middle age snapping community
[24:39]would benefit from that.
[24:42]All right, let me know when it's live.
[24:43]I'll post about it.
[24:45]Never band, where is you night?
[24:47]Yeah, exactly.
[24:49]Yeah, okay, anyway, thank you.
[24:51]This was so fun.
[24:52]I knew it would be and it was.
[24:53]And thank you.
[24:54]Your book was really just so great and so relatable
[24:58]and very entertaining, which is what we all want
[25:01]when we're at the edge of our ropes ourselves, yeah.
[25:05]Anyway, well, thank you so much for having us this week.
[25:07]Okay, take care.
[25:09]All right, bye bye.
[25:11]Thanks for listening to this episode
[25:13]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:15]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebiowinds
[25:18]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:20]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowinds.com
[25:22]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:24]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:27]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact,
[25:28]texture sound for the sound editing.
[25:30]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:32]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.