Lọlá Ákínmádé Åkerström, IN EVERY MIRROR SHE'S BLACK: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:38]Lola Akin-Made-Acker-Strom is the author of In Every Mirror She's Black, Nigerian-American, and based in Sweden,
[0:46]Lola is an award-winning author, speaker, and photographer.
[0:49]Her work has appeared in National Geographic Traveler, BBC, CNN, The Guardian, Sunday Times Travel, The Telegraph, New York Times, and others.
[0:56]She is the author of the 2018 Global Thomas Award winner for Best Travel Book, Do North, and Best Selling Legum, Swedish Secret of Living Well.
[1:04]She has been recognized with multiple awards for her work, including 2018 Travel Photographer of the Year, Bill Mustard Award,
[1:11]and she was honored with the My Pad 100 Most Influential People of African to Send Award within Media and Culture in 2018.
[1:19]Her photography is represented by National Geographic Image Collection.
[1:22]Lola is also the editor of SlowTravels.com, an online magazine dedicated to exploring Sweden's capital city in-depth.
[1:28]Welcome, Lola. Thank you so much for coming on moms.
[1:31]Don't have time to read bugs to discuss in every mirror she's black.
[1:34]Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for having me. So excited.
[1:37]Oh, I'm so excited for you.
[1:39]Okay, so for people who don't know anything about your book, tell them first about the book,
[1:43]and then I want to go into you and your life and your publishing journey and all this cool stuff about you.
[1:49]Absolutely. So this book I absolutely love this book.
[1:52]So in every mirror she's black follows the lives of three very different black women who end up in Sweden.
[2:00]And the reason they end up in Sweden, you know, for various reasons, but they're all connected kind of loosely to a very influential Swedish man.
[2:08]And so this book kind of chronicles their experiences, you know, their happiness is their struggles, everything, you know, and it's giving you a more nuanced view of a country.
[2:19]I love a country I love when I call home, but it's showing you that it's a lot more multi-dimensional, right, a more complex than we see.
[2:28]So yeah, I'm so excited about the neighborhood where she's black.
[2:31]Oh, it's very exciting. And your characters are so vivid and real from this high powered CEO who tries to get, you know, poached out of her job with this very sort of skeeby boss and then this new guy comes along and tries to whisk her away.
[2:47]And he seems a little bit sketchy too, especially when we meet him in the context of the plane where he's like hitting on a flight attendant.
[2:53]So I don't know. It's like, right from the start, you're sort of, you know, rooting for different people for different reasons and sort of holding this guy at arm's length and not really trusting him and, you know, it's just very, very gripping from the very beginning.
[3:09]Oh, thank you. Thank you. And, you know, the book focuses on the three women. And so you never really learn anything about him except from through the interactions within.
[3:18]Yeah. So he is not centered in the book. And so I think that was also something that was very cognizant about when I was writing. So you just see the different sides that also makes him a multi-dimensional character as well.
[3:31]It's true. Based on the three interactions and I really wanted to really root the women because they feel so real. They are real.
[3:39]Every single character is inspired by maybe a mix of different people, maybe different experiences.
[3:47]And so I wanted to create a book where people could either recognize parts of themselves in, you know, the journeys of these characters and kind of bring it down to that.
[3:57]You know, that feels really relatable.
[4:00]Oh, I like how you, the way that you introduce people's backstories, right?
[4:04]So you could see this beautiful, you know, 5, 11 model flight attendant as what she presents on the plane.
[4:11]But then you give us this like glimpse of her in bed with her boyfriend and the complications and why does she not want to get married to him and like what's holding her back and, you know,
[4:21]why does she want to be flying over there? So then when we go with her to her next interaction on the next flight, you're like, oh, well, you know, I'm in this girl's back pocket at this point.
[4:31]I totally get her and I don't know who am I reading for you. I want her to be with which guy.
[4:36]What are you doing? Anyway, somehow you just pull us right into who they are and their motivations by some of the little, I don't know what it is.
[4:44]So the little pieces that you share with us.
[4:47]And, you know, my characters, all of them are very messy and that was what I really wanted to show is that you start off liking a character and then you don't like them and then you like them.
[4:58]And then maybe you like them and then, and so that was what I wanted to really show because that's just how we as humans.
[5:04]There's some days you don't like someone the next day you like them.
[5:07]You know, and I wanted to show that, you know, first impressions aren't enough to tell the full story about person, you know, of the experiences of their struggles.
[5:17]And so this was a book I really wanted to show that, you know, that never take people as face value because they don't know what they're struggling.
[5:26]It could be very confident in a, you know, in a conference room, you know, but then outside of that she just kind of includes into herself because she's self conscious, you know, or body conscious, you know.
[5:38]And you know, with Brittany, she wants to find out things in life, parents struggled and without knowing that, you know, you might just say, oh, she's just a goal together, but she's not.
[5:48]And she just wants to stop struggling and is trying to use advantage, which is a beauty, you know, to see if she can make life a lot, you know, easier.
[5:58]And then of course, Moona, which is my personal, you know, favorite character, you know, she's just, you love Moona right and Moona.
[6:07]I see a lot of my teenage self in because I was isolated a lot, you know, and I felt like, you know, this was who I am, but people are in getting to know me as a person.
[6:18]Moona, I see a lot of myself, my younger self in Moona, that's why created a character.
[6:24]And yeah, so it's it's a book that's got scope and you know, and that's what part of yourself, why were you isolated.
[6:31]So I grew up in Nigeria, you know, that's where I am from and then when I was 15 I moved to the US.
[6:37]And when I moved to the US was to start college, so I was pretty young, but I was also coming with my own kind of cultural background.
[6:45]And so when I moved into the US, I moved into kind of society that wanted to redefine and box me and tell me this is why was based on just the color of my skin.
[6:55]And like, oh, you're black coming go to this group, you're basically at that. And for me, I was like, well, but why are you creating this box for me when I it wasn't created in where I was coming from and so I kind of fought against that a lot.
[7:10]Like with Moona, you know, the first thing people see is, oh, she wears a job job, she stays and people already judge without getting to know her, you know, and so that character is super important.
[7:22]And based in Sweden as well, Moona's character, she's Somali.
[7:26]And I made as Somali because just kind of statistically, you know, statistics wise in Sweden.
[7:33]More of the kind of African immigrants of Sweden are from, you know, Somali or Sudan. So it made more sense, factually to make a Somali than to make a Nigerian refugee.
[7:44]If I was routine I in London, then maybe I can make a Nigerian or Danny and so.
[7:49]So in that sense, you know, I made a Somali, but I wanted people to connect with who she was as a person, you know, and get to just love and see and.
[7:57]And yeah, so that was kind of why I created Moona as well. Well, where were you when you came to the United States, like what city or what town.
[8:05]I moved to Merlin and there.
[8:07]Yeah, Merlin and then I lived in Ohio for seven years and then moved back out to Alexandra, Virginia. So yeah.
[8:14]Okay, so then why Sweden.
[8:16]I met a man.
[8:19]So my husband is Swedish and I met in 2006.
[8:23]And so that's kind of our ended up in in Sweden.
[8:26]But it's one of those things where I didn't know much about the country before I moved, so you know, just kind of came in white eye.
[8:33]And because I am a travel writer, I am a very curious person. So immediately when I moved in, I went deep beneath the culture.
[8:40]Because as I always say, if I'm going to kind of plant roots and grow legacy somewhere, I need to know the quality of the soil. Right.
[8:48]So I really got deep, you know, got learned a lot about the nuances of Swedish culture, then the language even wrote a book, you know, that kind of, you know, called log on the bricks that down the mindset. So.
[9:00]I've been all that in hand. I'm like, you know what? I'm also a black woman here and our experiences are not monolithic, right?
[9:08]There are few, you know, there are so many kind of women of color and black women that are living different lives. I'll buy that.
[9:16]I take three and then share the experience here, because like I said, it's a lot more multicultural, but a lot more multidimensional than we kind of see, you know, on the outside looking in.
[9:28]So. And even on your website, you told the whole story, which by the way, this is how like I think shorthand for how you know someone's a great storyteller is when you can't stop reading their website.
[9:38]I mean, this is really like, but you really take us through like the process. How did this become a book, your rejections, your business, like all of it.
[9:46]And even how you thought of the idea and like to put us in Portugal or whatever with the wind blowing.
[9:51]Absolutely. Absolutely. No, no worries. But, you know, I started writing fiction when I was quite young and then I became attractive.
[10:00]All right, as we moved in to not know, you know,
[10:02]talk about the library system that you made with your friends.
[10:05]So this is funny.
[10:07]So when I was kind of in my pre-teens,
[10:09]elite teens, I went to body and school in Nigeria
[10:12]and I reached the right a lot of fiction.
[10:15]So kind of shut stories filled up notebooks and written.
[10:18]And then I had a sign out sheet in my dorm room.
[10:21]So my friends came and learned my books.
[10:25]And so they write their names, check them in, check them out.
[10:28]And we did this for years.
[10:30]And then of course, as the years flew by, you know,
[10:33]I kind of moved away from fiction
[10:35]and did more creative nonfiction.
[10:37]And I wanted to rewrite a lot of those stories,
[10:40]you know, that I had written,
[10:42]but I was still struggling.
[10:43]I'm like, why am I not able to rewrite a lot of those stories
[10:47]I wrote as a, you know, with an adult voice?
[10:50]And it was when I was on vacation in Portugal,
[10:52]you know, I had just finished reading Americana,
[10:55]and which I loved.
[10:56]And then I was like, you know what, that's it.
[10:58]Because even though the character is not the author,
[11:01]you could tell she was really pulling from kind of private
[11:04]spaces to feel, you know, those experiences in the book.
[11:08]And I'm like, I've traveled a lot.
[11:10]I've lived in different cultures for long periods of times.
[11:14]You know, I know Sweden well from within my sphere, you know,
[11:18]and, you know, I've written a lot about Sweden.
[11:21]I know it culturally.
[11:23]Why not write kind of what you know?
[11:26]What people you've met, you know,
[11:28]not like people are read met, but people, you know,
[11:31]inspires your characters, you know, places you've been.
[11:34]And so that was when I just got the idea for the book.
[11:37]And I got the idea that it had to be multiple women
[11:40]because our experiences are very different.
[11:43]You know, there is still privilege,
[11:45]even though you're still good through similar struggles.
[11:49]And then I actually create your knee
[11:50]because and I'm going to generalize now.
[11:53]Black women don't really move to Sweden without a solid reason.
[11:57]Like, it's not like, oh, Sweden looks good.
[11:59]Then we just move here, like randomly.
[12:01]We don't feel good to Spain or, you know, Portugal or Italy.
[12:05]So chances are it's either a man, maybe for work,
[12:10]maybe as a refugee or maybe to study.
[12:13]And so that was how I brought the women and tied them in.
[12:16]And I said I had to create this character.
[12:18]And so that was just kind of how it started, you know.
[12:21]And yeah, but the process to publication was rough.
[12:25]Yeah, tell me about that.
[12:26]You had like a trillion rejections.
[12:28]I can't believe it.
[12:29]77 zero rejections of the manuscript.
[12:33]And a friend of mine.
[12:35]Yes, for this.
[12:36]And it makes no sense unless you really changed it.
[12:39]Because we didn't, we didn't change.
[12:41]You were a really writer.
[12:43]I mean, like from, you know, I don't understand.
[12:46]I understand sometimes, well, actually, I shouldn't even say that.
[12:49]I don't usually understand why things were rejected a million times.
[12:52]So I particularly don't understand this one.
[12:54]Yeah.
[12:55]And it shines a light into the publishing industry, right?
[12:58]You know, and, you know, I got 70 rejections for many reasons.
[13:01]One, the book spans genres.
[13:04]So it's not, it kind of sits between literary fiction and show fiction.
[13:10]And it's kind of up markets kind of in the middle.
[13:13]So when we took it to a literary imprint, you are like, we love it, but it's too commercial.
[13:18]We took it this way.
[13:19]Oh, we like it, but it's too literary.
[13:22]And then they said, well, we're not sure about the audience, right?
[13:26]Because it sent us three black women kind of on the mainstream level.
[13:29]So they're like, well, we don't know how to position it.
[13:32]We don't have the vision for publication because of our audiences.
[13:37]You know, we don't know if you're going to be able to connect.
[13:39]And I'm like, you mean the same audiences that connect with vampires,
[13:43]where we're with, you know, can't connect with me as a black woman.
[13:48]And so it was a painful 70 rejections.
[13:52]And it's, you know, even when I think about it, it's emotional because the book deserves.
[13:59]And even, yeah.
[14:01]So I'm just grateful that we found such books because such books,
[14:05]they saw the vision, they had my voice, they had what I was trying to say.
[14:09]And then together, we just, yeah, it's coming out.
[14:14]But I can tell you this.
[14:15]I can tell, I think one thing I do want to say about the rejections is for anybody that's
[14:19]really kind of struggling or feeling inspired and frustrated is stay your course.
[14:25]And more importantly, stay true to your voice.
[14:28]Because that was what a lot of people kind of wanted me to change as well.
[14:32]They wanted, oh, if you take out these scenes,
[14:34]well, maybe this might make people uncomfortable.
[14:36]Maybe if you then maybe, and I'm like, what are you saying is take out my lived experiences
[14:42]or take out these people's truths?
[14:44]You know, and so I didn't do that.
[14:46]And I think that was also what added to the rejections.
[14:49]Me not wanting to dilute reality, you know, so yeah.
[14:54]You know, I wonder if there's a better,
[14:57]it's like there just should be a better way to submit, right?
[15:01]Because it makes you feel and having been rejected a bazillion times myself.
[15:05]I feel your pain.
[15:06]I flash back to crying on a bathroom floor about like the fact that this one book I worked
[15:12]really hard on was never going to see the light of day.
[15:14]And it's like really gutting.
[15:15]I mean, because it's yours.
[15:17]It's what's in your head.
[15:19]People are saying like, no, thanks.
[15:21]You're like, oh, what does that say to me about what's in my head right now?
[15:26]No, absolutely.
[15:27]And the thing with rejection is it's usually not really about you.
[15:31]You know, your work, because you are talented.
[15:33]You know, your voice, you know, you know, that this deserves to be published.
[15:38]Most of the time, it's just, you know, just the politics of publishing.
[15:43]And that showed me the disconnect because a lot of the readers
[15:48]have really liked the book.
[15:49]We've been getting a lot of great reviews.
[15:51]Very good.
[15:52]In which doesn't coincide with what the gatekeepers were telling me
[15:56]that there wasn't going to be an audience, you know?
[15:59]So sometimes the gatekeepers are the ones that actually block
[16:03]books that need to be out there, you know, from getting published.
[16:07]So yeah, wow.
[16:08]Well, I'm so glad you didn't give up.
[16:10]I'm just super excited about this book and how great a writer you are.
[16:13]And, you know, there is no, just because things don't fall into a bucket,
[16:19]you know, it doesn't mean it's like if there's a leak from the ceiling, right?
[16:23]Just because like, another, one of the pots doesn't catch the water.
[16:27]doesn't mean the water's not falling, right?
[16:28]It's still amazing, right?
[16:30]So it's coming no matter what, right?
[16:32]Yeah, no, absolutely.
[16:33]And, you know, I get it.
[16:35]You know, publishing always likes categories.
[16:38]But life is messy.
[16:40]Life is, you know, multi-dimensional.
[16:42]And books, the most interesting books to me,
[16:45]anywhere, books that just kind of tackle that,
[16:48]that messiness of life, you know, where somebody good,
[16:51]somebody bad is, is this romance?
[16:55]Is it contemporary, is it what is it, you know,
[16:57]just to capture or reflect, you know,
[17:00]reality or the way that life is, you know, so yeah.
[17:02]So, but I am super grateful, you know, to, to, to,
[17:06]so, so books, you know, that's my US publisher.
[17:08]And then we've got a few other publishers as well.
[17:11]So I'm super excited.
[17:12]And I'm super excited.
[17:13]I have to introduce you by the way.
[17:14]Maybe you know her.
[17:15]There's a black author in Sweden named Jennifer Dahlberg.
[17:19]Do you know her?
[17:20]Yes.
[17:20]And we're friends.
[17:21]Right?
[17:22]Oh my gosh.
[17:22]Of course.
[17:23]It's, it's, we tend to know, you know, the community.
[17:26]I was like, I shouldn't even say this.
[17:28]I'm sure there are a lot of people.
[17:29]When you said they're hardly anybody, but anyway,
[17:31]well, she's amazing.
[17:32]She's been on the podcast.
[17:33]We did a book club.
[17:34]Oh, she does.
[17:35]Anyway, Jennifer is amazing.
[17:36]And she just has a new book out in Sweden as well in,
[17:39]in Sweden as well in Sweden.
[17:39]So yeah, no, it's a small community of black women,
[17:43]especially those that kind of have ties to America that need
[17:46]black American.
[17:47]They tend to know each other, you know, and then I know
[17:50]a lot of different communities as well.
[17:52]Africans and refugees and Americans.
[17:54]So yes.
[17:56]Yeah, absolutely.
[17:56]Okay.
[17:57]Okay.
[17:58]Tell her I said hi.
[18:00]I will.
[18:02]So what's coming next for you after this one?
[18:04]Did you already write your next book?
[18:05]Are you working on a book now?
[18:06]Like, are you doing more of the travel stuff still?
[18:09]Like, I know you already have a whole
[18:11]another side hustle essentially.
[18:13]Yes, I know.
[18:14]I know, right?
[18:14]Well, well, you know what, I recently found the wood
[18:18]and it's called multi-potential light.
[18:21]And that word is for people that drive on many different things.
[18:25]That's me, by the way.
[18:27]I can't do anything at a time.
[18:28]So there you go.
[18:29]Thank you for that.
[18:30]You need to check it out multi-potential.
[18:32]Right.
[18:32]And I think that's why I do a lot of different things
[18:36]because my brain needs different things creatively, right?
[18:39]Yeah.
[18:40]And I think a lot of multi-potential,
[18:42]maybe when do I bring up what kind of isolated a lot of felt like,
[18:45]why can't you just stick with one thing?
[18:47]What's wrong with you or something awkward here?
[18:49]And so I do a lot of different things.
[18:51]I am working on fleshing out more of these characters.
[18:54]Maybe even going to different points of views.
[18:57]I have other book ideas.
[18:59]So yeah, there's a lot coming on the horizon in terms of writing.
[19:03]So have you thought about writing a memoir?
[19:06]Yeah.
[19:07]I'm not sure I want to open up.
[19:09]Okay.
[19:10]Back to you.
[19:11]Yes, but I am grateful because I have lived
[19:13]and that's so many amazing experiences over my career.
[19:16]You know, as a travel writer, I've been to so many amazing places.
[19:19]With different publications, you know, and I think there's a memoir in there.
[19:24]You know, I have to get to the point where
[19:26]no one's ready to write it because I feel like there's still a lot of fiction
[19:30]that needs to come out.
[19:31]You know, lots of stories of others that I can kind of help share,
[19:35]you know, to keep kind of fostering cultural connection.
[19:39]So I need to keep doing more of that until then I focus on me and my memoir.
[19:43]Like, yeah, I need to keep connecting with this.
[19:46]Okay.
[19:46]All right.
[19:47]Well, when you're ready, how are you ready?
[19:51]I would love to read it.
[19:53]Awesome.
[19:54]So what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[19:57]I know you've said, you know, with rejection and everything else.
[20:00]But even in the craft of writing, right?
[20:01]Like tell us a little more about when you sit down to write
[20:06]and how you do that and your process
[20:08]and how long these things take
[20:09]and what advice on that front?
[20:12]Absolutely.
[20:13]So with this book, I spent actually the first couple
[20:16]of months outlining the characters.
[20:18]So I didn't really start writing or putting the story together.
[20:21]I just started outlining scenes.
[20:23]I was like, oh, this.
[20:24]Oh, I remember going here, maybe I can try this.
[20:27]And kind of developing the characters first before I wrote.
[20:31]So it took me about four months of solid writing
[20:33]to write the book, but months before.
[20:36]And for me, my writing process is, you know,
[20:39]I wake up early, you know, try to get some words in.
[20:42]But if I'm also on the train, I use my phone to get words in.
[20:46]So it's when the inspiration strikes.
[20:49]And if I'm not inspired, I know a lot of writers say
[20:53]when you've got, you know, writers block or whatever,
[20:55]just write through it.
[20:56]I can't.
[20:57]And that's why I moved to a different creative field.
[21:00]So if I'm not writing, I'm not going to fuss it.
[21:03]That means my mind wants to use photography
[21:06]to communicate right now or use something else
[21:10]to communicate.
[21:10]And then by doing that, it kind of lets the writing side rest
[21:16]and come back refreshed.
[21:18]That's just my own method because I do lots of creative things.
[21:21]So I just switch creatively so that it, you know,
[21:25]it gets the others resting and then coming back fresh.
[21:28]And then the advice I would give kind of aspiring writers
[21:31]is, you know, I'll say, I'll say this EE comments quote, right?
[21:36]So it says to be nobody but yourself in a world
[21:39]that's trying to make you like everybody else
[21:42]is to fight the address battle you have to fight.
[21:45]So don't stop fighting, which means stay true to your voice.
[21:49]The world is going to try and dilute it.
[21:52]You know, rejection most of the time isn't about
[21:55]that you're not good enough because then that's when
[21:58]you start feeling like maybe I'm not good enough.
[22:01]Your voice, you know, of course you have to keep crafting
[22:03]and getting better but your voice is valid, you know,
[22:06]and so right, right what you feel,
[22:08]even if you don't feel like it's ready for publication,
[22:11]just get it out because you're so once you get it out.
[22:15]So that's what I'll say, you know, just stay true to your voice
[22:18]because the world is going to try and dilute it.
[22:20]I love it.
[22:21]It goes back to your, you know, other people
[22:23]trying to fit you in a box or in the beginning.
[22:25]Yes.
[22:26]Same thing, right?
[22:27]You know, not everybody fits so neatly.
[22:29]Even with like a traditional job.
[22:31]I mean, I don't know about you.
[22:32]Like I had a lot of like, not a lot,
[22:34]but like I tried to fit into corporate jobs.
[22:37]And I'm like, well, this is like, this isn't no.
[22:39]Like I'm done with this by like 11.
[22:41]Do you know what I do all that, you know, I don't know.
[22:44]So, you know, I like how the world is sort of moving
[22:48]more in this direction now.
[22:49]Yes.
[22:50]People doing multiple jobs and.
[22:52]Yeah.
[22:52]But also the blend of like the, like the work, like balance
[22:56]where, you know, the pandemic has allowed us to say,
[22:58]you know what?
[22:59]We actually have lives at home.
[23:00]Yes.
[23:01]And bringing that to the forefront as, I, I hope,
[23:04]has made us more, you know, understanding of each other,
[23:07]more gracious to each other when the kid runs around
[23:10]in the back, you know, behind you in the meeting.
[23:14]And just showing that, you know, that's also maybe,
[23:16]that's actually more important than the work we're doing.
[23:19]It's definitely like outside of the work.
[23:21]So, yeah.
[23:22]Well, it's hard to connect when you're only bringing like
[23:23]a 10th of yourself to the table, right?
[23:26]You have to bring all of it to really connect other people.
[23:28]So, so that means my kids running in so, exactly, exactly.
[23:34]Oh my gosh.
[23:35]Well, Lola, thank you so much.
[23:37]It was so nice to meet you.
[23:38]I'm really, really, truly rooting for you.
[23:40]And I'm so happy that this book is coming out
[23:43]and wishing you all the best in every mirror.
[23:46]She's Slack.
[23:47]Thank you so much.
[23:48]Thank you so much.
[23:48]Thank you so much, ZB.
[23:50]Just great to be here and to meet you as well.
[23:53]Thank you.
[23:54]It was fun.
[23:55]All right, stay in touch.
[23:55]Okay.
[23:56]Bye-bye.
[23:57]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[24:00]Don't have time to read books.
[24:02]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens
[24:05]and at Moms.
[24:06]Don't have time to read books.
[24:07]Also, sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com
[24:10]and sign up for my virtual book club
[24:11]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:14]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[24:15]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[24:18]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:20]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.