Liane Moriarty, APPLES NEVER FALL
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[0:38]Leanne Moriarty is the author of Apples Never Fall.
[0:41]She is the Australian author of eight internationally bestselling novels,
[0:45]three wishes, the last anniversary, what Alice forgot, the hypnotist love story,
[0:50]nine perfect strangers, and the number one, New York Times bestsellers,
[0:54]the husband's secret, big little lies, and truly madly guilty.
[0:58]Her books have been translated into over 40 languages and sold more than 20 million copies.
[1:03]Big little lies and truly madly guilty, both debuted at number one on the New York Times bestseller list.
[1:09]The first time this was ever achieved by an Australian author.
[1:12]Big little lies was adapted into a multi-award-winning HBO series.
[1:16]I've seen every single episode with a star-studded cast, including Nicole Kidman and
[1:20]Reese Weatherspoon.
[1:21]Hulu is adapting nine perfect strangers into a limited series starring Nicole Kidman
[1:25]and Melissa McCarthy, which also just came out.
[1:27]In fact, the day we did our podcast was when it was released.
[1:30]Her new novel Apples Never Fall is coming out now.
[1:33]Leanne lives in Sydney, Australia, together with her husband's son and daughter.
[1:38]Welcome, Leanne.
[1:39]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:40]On moms don't have time to read books to discuss Apples Never Fall.
[1:44]Thank you, my pleasure.
[1:46]I have to say your unboxing video on Facebook was one of the funniest I've ever seen.
[1:51]I wasn't sure if it was too silly that we decided it would make him to make people laugh.
[1:56]So that's so great to have your daughter do it.
[2:00]And then the Fox and then all the editions.
[2:02]And it was great.
[2:03]Well, Larry, I was like, oh, I mean, it's just very interesting.
[2:07]It's so good.
[2:09]So Apples Never Fall.
[2:11]Let's talk about this.
[2:11]I know you've written so many other amazing books that I have inhaled and also watched and all
[2:16]all that good stuff.
[2:17]But would you mind giving listeners a little sneak peek into what Apples Never Fall is about?
[2:22]Yeah, so Apples Never Fall is the story of the Delaney family, a family of tennis players.
[2:29]And what happens when Joey Delaney, who is 69, goes missing and her husband's
[2:36]stand becomes the chief suspect in her possible murder and her four adult children have to
[2:42]deal with the possibility that he may, that their father may have killed their mother and
[2:47]factions for all men.
[2:49]And then they obviously have to re-examine their parents' marriage.
[2:54]And everything they know about their family history.
[2:56]Well, one of the things that I loved about this book was that you kept giving us the vantage
[3:02]point of other peripheral people, like the Uber driver and the waitress.
[3:06]And maybe they interact with just one of the characters.
[3:08]But you get this, like we're all insiders, like outsiders looking in rather, right?
[3:12]And you get to, you get that sense when you have all these other people showing us the story.
[3:17]It's a cool life.
[3:18]Oh, thank you.
[3:18]Yeah, I did that actually with my very first novel with three wishes.
[3:22]And then I accidentally did it again because I just enjoyed, I enjoyed that.
[3:27]And actually when I was doing, I was in motion to be again because you did that before,
[3:31]but then I allowed you to move the story forward.
[3:36]Oh, you see, you didn't even have to say anything.
[3:38]No, people might not know.
[3:44]But it's so great.
[3:45]I mean, I was just, I had dinner with a bunch of women writers last night.
[3:48]And we were all talking, we were at a restaurant, and we were all talking about how we were always
[3:52]like making up stories about all the people around us wondering.
[3:55]And that curiosity, we were like, is it just people who like to write that are this curious
[3:59]about other people?
[4:00]Are we always just so in need of a story that we have to make it up?
[4:04]I think it's a natural part of being human that does that make stories.
[4:09]And I know my own mother at restaurants will often she'll have a vague look come across the face.
[4:16]And you can see she's eavesdropping in the table next to us.
[4:20]So yeah, I think it's everybody does it.
[4:24]Yeah.
[4:24]Maybe it's just the writers who then take it and put it into, you know, novels.
[4:28]Yes, yes.
[4:30]Yeah, you said it's material.
[4:32]I thought it was so great the way you depict a joy.
[4:35]And it was almost like maybe very sad.
[4:37]Her sort of empty nest, dumb, and how you just really encapsulated that feeling of emptiness
[4:44]and trying to pass the time.
[4:46]And I felt so sad for you ever like listening to podcasts so that she can like relate to her
[4:51]daughter and her migraines a little more by listening to the podcast about migraines and then
[4:55]using all those words and the daughters like, can you not do this please?
[5:01]It's just I feel like especially at this time of year, this is for this book to come out and
[5:05]so many parents are dropping their kids at college or saying goodbye.
[5:08]Yeah.
[5:09]This is like it doesn't matter if they're gone forever or gone for the year.
[5:11]It's that same sense of sort of longing and you know, what do you do with your time?
[5:16]So I felt like you got that.
[5:17]Oh, thank you.
[5:18]I can't quite imagine it yet for myself and and it wasn't something I never stood out to
[5:24]I never think, okay, I'm going to write about the emptiness syndrome.
[5:28]I just had this premise and then there she is.
[5:31]And then I think, oh, well, I guess this is what she's what she's feeling.
[5:35]It sort of evolves as as I'm writing the story.
[5:38]And then I'm imagining it for myself for what it will be like for me one day.
[5:42]I'd like them to stay home forever.
[5:46]I just interviewed someone earlier today who in her book, the mother says, well, how about you
[5:51]just stuff me like a, you know, like an animal once I pass away, you can just keep me on the couch.
[5:57]All right, you know,
[6:02]great, great, great to read you.
[6:05]That's funny.
[6:06]So how did you come up with the premise of this book?
[6:09]Like what was the part of it that was so interesting?
[6:11]Was it Savannah like coming at the front door and like picking this house seemingly random
[6:16]or was it the floor kids or like which part or is it a part we can't discuss because
[6:20]for a long strand.
[6:21]So the first strand was that like Joy, I had Joy receive a pair of fancy headphones
[6:28]from her husband and my husband gave me some fancy headphones, which got me into podcasts.
[6:34]Actually, I actually came a little bit late to podcast, but now I'm an avid listener.
[6:39]I can't cook dinner without listening to a podcast now.
[6:43]And so the first ones I listened to were true crime podcast and there are a few
[6:49]cases and also ones that I'd read about in the paper, but I'm now I was originally thinking
[6:54]I would give details of those of the particulars of those cases because some of them are
[6:59]cold cases dating back years, but then very recently I saw Amanda Knox and her reaction to
[7:07]still water and it stopped me in my tracks a little bit thinking it's really not the right thing
[7:12]to do to give specifics of something even though I've definitely not taken anybody else's
[7:18]true story, but even saying this inspired me in a sort of cheerful promotional way now feels wrong.
[7:26]But so there and anyway there were multiple cases really that gave me this premise of what would
[7:31]you do? How would you feel if your mother was missing and your father was the chief suspect?
[7:37]And sadly actually that's not really an unusual situation happening all the time that the
[7:43]women are going missing and countries all around the world and the chief suspect is we're all
[7:49]sitting there watching the news and thinking well we know. So that was one premise and so originally
[7:55]I was thinking so that's your parents and then I thought would be more interesting if there are
[8:00]multiple children because then you can have factions form and one sibling can react in one way
[8:05]and one the other way. So that's one side of it. There was a newspaper article I read where an
[8:10]elderly couple let a young woman into their house and then various things happen so
[8:17]I liked the idea of somebody knocking on the door which is again really that idea comes
[8:24]out you know the stranger knocks on the door has been used a lot of times but I just had that
[8:29]and then I had no idea how she would relate to my story and the third little strand is that
[8:36]I had taken a year off from writing or a year off where because normally I have a book out every
[8:43]two years but I had asked for an extra year and so I was thinking that in that year I would just
[8:50]write I'd get myself into writing without having the stress of a deadline and I asked my sister
[8:57]Jackie who is the author Jacqueline Mori actually to give me some writing prompts and so she texted
[9:03]me a little just three or four lines which was a bike lying on the grass with a few apples
[9:10]spilled next to it and so that became the opening scene of the book so I was really meant to write
[9:17]a piece from that but it turns out I don't actually know how to do that I just started writing a
[9:22]novel. That's a cool answer to that question. No that's super interesting I mean that's a huge
[9:31]you know encouragement from people who use writing prompts I get my likes subscribed to one of
[9:35]these things where every day I get a writing prompt and every day I delete it because that's
[9:41]exactly the sort of thing I thought I would do in this year because I was calling it Year of Joy
[9:47]and in fact that's what I had I was calling the new novel the Year of Joy and that's how I came up
[9:51]the name Joy Deluxe and I was thinking I just write for the joy of writing but I'm not so
[9:58]interesting just I couldn't
[10:00]right just a little piece I want to write a story. I thought you were going to say you took
[10:05]the third year off so you could get better at tennis. Well oh so that I guess I could
[10:10]I could answer this question forever so a fourth strand is that my son is quite a good tennis
[10:17]player so I was having actually having a tennis lesson and trying to keep up with him
[10:24]and while I was having the lesson I was thinking about my story and I had thought to myself
[10:30]I would like my family to run a family business which was really mainly so that I could keep them
[10:36]all in one place because you know the convenience so that you don't have them all going off to
[10:41]different jobs so I thought to myself I know I'll have them run a tennis school then and so then the
[10:48]funny thing is then as the days go by I think well I guess if they're running a tennis school
[10:53]they're really into tennis obviously so perhaps they were full tennis players but perhaps they
[10:58]wanted all their children to be competitive tennis players so again tennis then became a big part
[11:05]of the story. And the betrayal of the you know rising star who then you know dads have never
[11:10]gets over you know dot dot dot question mark through lines yeah which I loved I love I am a huge
[11:19]tennis player myself not that good anymore but I don't know I'm I love to play I play a lot and my
[11:23]husband actually taught tennis professionally for a over a decade and yeah he was really really
[11:28]good like ranked and you know all that good stuff so when I found tennis there actually is
[11:32]surprisingly little tennis and fiction I would think that it would be more there's so many like
[11:36]analogies and scenes I was like oh yeah that's another I liked you and it worked which you don't
[11:41]realize you know once you start thinking about tennis how it does it does work so well and created
[11:47]so like your husband we're talking to competitive tennis players so people who are really talented
[11:54]I was just so fascinated by how you can have so much talent and put so much working to it but
[12:00]obviously only the tiniest percentage actually make it to the very top and so how do you feel when
[12:07]you put everything into it and you are that good and then injury or or whatever for whatever reason
[12:15]you don't make it and talking to former players one in particular just I actually have no idea of
[12:21]the level of sacrifice that goes into it for the young young kids and the grief that he this particular
[12:29]player felt like grief to me the way he was talking about it when he was making that decision
[12:34]to give up tennis and fascinating I agree no we've talked a lot about the demands on the people
[12:40]even the men on the circuit and how difficult it is and how it's so hard even to make money is it
[12:46]even like the two player number 200 relative to number one let alone number 500 and we're always
[12:52]like watching evil on TV or at tournaments like what do you think he could be him and he's like no he's
[12:56]like at the best in the world you know and I'm like yeah yeah but it's true I mean and the demands
[13:04]on the body as you get older I mean this is like off topic now but it's like you know his friends and
[13:09]him it's just like you know like any professional athlete yeah yeah really you have to just like
[13:15]shake the kids when they're younger and be like okay just so you know you're not going to be able
[13:21]yeah anyway kind of like Stan honestly after he fixed his knees and you know he's still hobbling
[13:27]around and they said don't run anymore and of course he's like right back on the court there's
[13:30]just something that like causes that's just such a passion and I just love that you know in
[13:35]truly madly guilty I wrote about a cellus so I just love seeing other people's passions and you know
[13:42]and obviously it helps with the story if there's something that you're obsessed with and that
[13:46]really drives you yes and tell me a little about this whole you know carrying on from the pain of
[13:52]like stands and these and everything like having one of the sisters be a physio like a physical
[13:56]therapist and having her like hope that people get hurt I thought that was so funny that she's
[14:02]like starting her own business and it's like oh good you know it's getting you know slippery or
[14:06]maybe someone will slip today I don't know it just like hoping for the demise of people in her
[14:11]yeah well that was just I can't actually remember why I decided to make a physio therapist but
[14:17]I remember standing on the sidelines talking to a mother while our children played sport together
[14:23]and she was a physio therapist so just talking about what the sort of things you need to do in the
[14:28]beginning and how you go along to sports fields exactly like where we were hoping to you know create
[14:34]a name for yourself she didn't actually say hoping for people to get you
[14:41]well she didn't say we just got to like be in her head which is even better the things that
[14:46]people don't say out loud right that's that's even more fun and what about the migrants do you
[14:51]get migraines or was this just another like plot enhancer or just an I think just an article I
[14:56]read it was just a really well written first person article I think something like that that
[15:02]just made me think the impact that it had on her life so all my health issues that I've had
[15:09]are things that you get better so so people with chronic conditions that it really affects
[15:15]everything about your life I was just really taken by by the way this person's life had been
[15:21]affected by it and also see everything that I've ever had there's a cure now you go to the doctor
[15:26]and you get fixed but knowing that these migraines can strike that just the emotional side of
[15:32]them there's a really great book by Tio Williams and now I'm like blanking on the name usually
[15:38]over oh I'm just actually reading it right now oh great because I thought oh she's writing about
[15:43]migraines and she's actually yes she's probably affected by migraines she's doing it better
[15:48]than you do for brook yeah so I'm only in the very early chapters and what's according to seven
[15:54]days of the day of June yeah seven days of June yeah I kept on it to say 50 days but I knew it
[15:58]wasn't 50 okay no I had her on this podcast also and was talking to her about her mom you can go
[16:04]back and listen in your spare time as you're cooking dinner you know what I don't want to listen
[16:07]it was now I think if I listen then I think oh I should have done this with with brook you know once
[16:13]you finish and not too late she's still holding onto those characters and then you think oh
[16:19]you do the very best you can with research and all that but there's really
[16:24]nothing compares with experiencing it yourself that's true I guess although you made it seem
[16:31]incredibly real thank you you know at least I don't know I was glad I didn't it wasn't suffering
[16:37]myself at the moment so that's good so you I've only I've had one that was like I had just had a
[16:43]baby and they thought it had something to do with like the you know you know and like your body
[16:47]just so messed up from baby stuff anyway but I like I could close my eyes and I would still see
[16:54]all these things like they were all over my computer oh really not explain it very well but your
[16:59]vision my vision was totally affected and I tried to close one eye and the other eye and they were
[17:03]like still there and I was like I can't see my screen I was like yeah yeah I don't know why I told
[17:09]this story but yeah anyway in general I'm fine you know so your sister gives you the writing prompt
[17:15]and you have this opening scene when did you know like all the plot lines that would followed
[17:21]how much did you just kind of do on the go versus sit down and like figure out ahead of time
[17:27]and then once you got into it like how long did it take to write this I'm sorry I definitely
[17:31]do it all on the go so I had so I have I know that Joy has disappeared but I don't know where
[17:37]she is and I don't know how this girl who knocked on the door a year ago how that feeds into the story
[17:45]I love the fact that I don't plan because it makes my writing day interesting because I think I
[17:50]wonder what's going to happen today but it's also a scary way to write because then I have to think
[17:54]I hope something happens today but there's a slight terror the whole time I'm writing I can pull it
[18:01]off if I can work out how they'll all tie together and so I have lots as I'm writing I'm just
[18:07]seeing maybe it will be this maybe it will be that and then it just slowly evolves and sometimes
[18:12]there's a little you know I might be up for a walk and have a little start and think this
[18:16]I know and in fact with the husband's secret where I had different storylines I can always
[18:21]remember exactly the intersection where I'd stopped at where I finally worked it out which is why
[18:26]I always hated anybody in reviews said about that book I was so predictable I think how could you
[18:32]predict it I couldn't predict you clever and so yeah so but I never want to give the impression
[18:42]that that means it's just all flowing because obviously as I'm working it out as I go along
[18:48]that means I have to go back and fix things so I have a separate document called things I need to
[18:53]fix and once I know how it's all going to work out then I need to go back and put in you know
[19:00]little what are they called I'm saying red plants but I mean red herrings so the word red herrings
[19:05]yes yes I didn't actually I didn't know it but yes there's another word
[19:10]I read you a straight and different and also there's another word I'm at that age where words are
[19:16]disappearing you know you're putting little little things in clues sorry clues where there's
[19:23]something else going down afterwards I don't mean Easter eggs that's not that don't mean that
[19:28]anyway fine posts I mean things like that where and little things and some little things especially
[19:37]with this book that I've written as part of the story which I really enjoy actually I really
[19:43]loved writing this book more than I think because I had a little bit more time which were just part
[19:49]of the story and then as I wrote I thought actually that has more significance now I can make
[19:54]that more significant and I enjoy that because I didn't have to go back and put it in so it
[19:58]flowed naturally when
[20:00]sort of having to shove in a jigsaw pace.
[20:03]So that's such a pleasure when that happens.
[20:07]Interesting.
[20:08]So even in many books, they've become so successful.
[20:12]Like, how do you feel about still doing publicity?
[20:16]Like, how do you feel about like,
[20:17]get it going soon?
[20:18]So having to talk about this book after so many books
[20:20]and after all of the success.
[20:22]Like, you know, how do you deal with it?
[20:24]How do you fit it into the day?
[20:25]How do you feel about the whole,
[20:27]because it's part of being an author, right?
[20:28]It is having to get out there and like, talk about it.
[20:30]It's interesting.
[20:31]It's not something I've really worked out in my own head yet.
[20:35]So first of all, I enjoy talking.
[20:37]I enjoy talking to you, because you're lovely.
[20:39]Thank you.
[20:40]So this is perfectly lovely.
[20:41]It's afterwards that I'll then go through self-loathing
[20:45]and think of some, I don't know.
[20:47]I'll just loathe myself for something I said,
[20:50]which I need to get over that sort of agony
[20:54]of self-consciousness about it or once it's done.
[20:58]And so I could never go, I couldn't talk to you
[21:00]and then sit down and write,
[21:03]because I've talked too much about myself
[21:05]and the whole point of writing is to lose your sense of self.
[21:09]And so right now I feel I'm performing as a writer
[21:13]rather than actually writing.
[21:16]Though I do, it is part of the job.
[21:18]I love doing events.
[21:20]I love meeting readers.
[21:21]That's a really special part of the job for me.
[21:24]And I'm really sad that this time around,
[21:28]there won't be any face-to-face events with readers.
[21:30]So I'm really upset about that.
[21:33]I'm looking forward to when I can meet readers again.
[21:36]Yeah, but the publicity side of it,
[21:38]I'm grateful too, because also I have a background
[21:41]in advertising and marketing.
[21:44]So I can't pretend I'm the sort of person who is,
[21:48]I understand the way the world works.
[21:50]And I want people to know about my books.
[21:53]I just wish I wasn't the product.
[21:55]That's where the agony of self-consciousness.
[21:57]So I feel like maybe when I'm 60,
[21:59]I'll work it all out and be really cool
[22:01]and all of lost all the strangeness about this part of it.
[22:06]I feel like I always used to think that it was just age
[22:09]that would fix things, that I had like,
[22:12]it don't.
[22:13]Like, something has to happen.
[22:14]I did all these interviews with my grandmother
[22:17]before she passed away.
[22:18]And actually both my grandmothers about eating,
[22:20]because they were always like,
[22:22]oh, I shouldn't have eaten that.
[22:23]And I'm like, you guys are in your 90s.
[22:24]Like does this never end, right?
[22:26]So, and I did this whole survey of all these women
[22:28]in the nursing home.
[22:29]And for most of them, it never ended.
[22:31]So I was like, at the time I was,
[22:33]I think in my 30s or something.
[22:34]And I was like, all right,
[22:35]well, I'm gonna have to get over
[22:36]like feeling guilty about dessert now
[22:38]because if nothing happens with me now
[22:40]and then like, it's just not gonna resolve
[22:42]because I got one.
[22:43]That's such a good point.
[22:44]So I shouldn't wait till I should sort it out myself.
[22:47]Yeah, you better get on there, like, you know.
[22:49]But I know I thought there's a certain type
[22:50]of woman who comes to my events.
[22:53]And I first I thought she was in her 50s,
[22:55]but I think they're actually in their 60s.
[22:57]And there's this wonderful age
[22:59]where they're really cool
[23:01]and they've seemed to have just got themselves together
[23:04]before, you know, you have limitations of old age.
[23:09]And with that, and I had this theory
[23:11]that you lose all their anxieties
[23:13]that there's some age where they just don't seem to,
[23:18]they just look great.
[23:19]They don't seem to care anymore.
[23:20]They're just having a good time.
[23:22]So I'm looking forward to that.
[23:24]Like, you know, you made a good point
[23:25]that I've got to actually make that happen myself.
[23:29]Maybe not, maybe, I mean, maybe it's just eating
[23:31]that never gets resolved to who knows.
[23:32]Maybe, I don't know.
[23:34]Maybe one day we'll both wake up
[23:35]and anxiety will be gone.
[23:36]But it's so deeply entrenched.
[23:39]I don't know how to like pull it out.
[23:40]It's like the aging things that's ridiculous
[23:43]that they're in their 90s still thinking about,
[23:47]well, to sort of have you deserve that.
[23:50]Right? Like who's looking?
[23:51]What's the matter?
[23:53]Right?
[23:54]She was, my grandmother went to curves
[23:56]until like the week that she found her way.
[23:58]I know.
[23:59]I'm like, goggy, like, what, it's okay, anyway.
[24:03]So I'm like throwing in the towel now.
[24:05]I'm going to forget it.
[24:08]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[24:10]So what first of all, if a very young aspiring authors
[24:14]I always say, lead an interesting life.
[24:17]So, you know, do multiple jobs travel
[24:20]when you're allowed to travel.
[24:22]Take a, if you're offered to take a journey,
[24:25]the cost-dangerous terrain.
[24:27]Take that journey.
[24:28]And I wouldn't say that to my own children.
[24:30]So now I'm not letting my kids listen to this one.
[24:34]That's true.
[24:35]So, no, other people, other people's kids
[24:39]can go across really dangerous terrain,
[24:41]but don't blame us.
[24:43]That's right.
[24:45]So my point really is just to,
[24:47]you need lots of material to call upon.
[24:50]When you sit down to write and read lots
[24:53]and write for the pleasure of writing,
[24:55]I think a lot of aspiring authors get caught up
[24:58]in the industry, in industry questions
[25:01]and should it be double-spaced?
[25:03]And how do I make sure nobody steals my ideas?
[25:07]There's always people, people love that.
[25:09]They love that concrete bit of advice about,
[25:11]you know, that strange thing of posting it,
[25:13]your manuscript to yourself and not opening.
[25:16]I don't even know if that works, but people think
[25:19]that's something real, yes, okay, I'll do that.
[25:22]Really, you've got to sit down and write.
[25:24]That's the main thing.
[25:25]And so of course, it's hard to sit down and write,
[25:28]especially for your first novel to keep going.
[25:30]It's not hard to perhaps write and first chapter,
[25:33]but to finish something is difficult.
[25:35]And so my first book I wrote as part of a master's degree.
[25:40]So it just meant that that was like homework.
[25:43]And so I had people each week, so I had to do it.
[25:48]But the same could be achieved from joining a writers group
[25:50]or having even just a friend just saying something
[25:54]that makes you accountable.
[25:55]So in a way, I hate to bring that to food,
[25:58]but in a way, it is a bit like being on a diet
[26:01]that, you know, these group programs work
[26:04]if you're telling people how you're going
[26:07]rather than just quietly sitting there.
[26:09]Of course that will work for some people.
[26:11]But if you're finding yourself frustrated,
[26:14]then I think it helps to have a friend
[26:16]or join a writing group or whatever words for you
[26:18]just to make you finish it.
[26:20]Accountability is always key.
[26:23]Can you give us just a sneak peek at what the next book is
[26:26]or do you not know yet?
[26:27]No, I have nothing.
[26:28]Nothing at all.
[26:30]No, so I don't know.
[26:32]I don't know.
[26:33]But I just read that this will be developed into what TV
[26:36]or movie or something attached with heyday as a test.
[26:39]So David Haimen, he produced the Harry Potter films
[26:42]and once upon a time in Hollywood.
[26:44]And to favorite movie of my marriage story
[26:47]has auctioned it.
[26:48]I think I've become the TV lady.
[26:52]So I think it's most likely to be TV.
[26:56]I don't mind either way.
[26:57]It's very exciting.
[26:59]Wow.
[26:59]And as I was driving here, I'm in LA right now, by the way.
[27:02]There was like a huge billboard for nine perfect strangers.
[27:04]And I was like, oh, it'd be so funny if I could grab
[27:07]my phone and take a picture of it.
[27:08]Then I was like, that I'm going to crash
[27:09]and not get to be this podcast, no, no, you get it.
[27:12]I'll just get it.
[27:14]That's exciting too.
[27:15]So much on the horizon.
[27:16]It's literally today that it starts on the area.
[27:20]Oh, thank you.
[27:21]Thank you, Ellen.
[27:23]Congratulations.
[27:24]Thank you.
[27:25]That's good.
[27:26]Well, thank you for all this time of years.
[27:29]It's so generous of you.
[27:30]And best of luck, I'm excited to watch this launch
[27:34]and all the excitement around that.
[27:35]And yeah, it's my pleasure.
[27:37]Thank you.
[27:38]OK.
[27:38]All right, see you here.
[27:40]Bye.
[27:41]OK, bye bye.
[27:42]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[27:45]Don't have time to read books.
[27:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[27:50]and at Moms Don't have time to read books.
[27:52]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[27:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:56]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:58]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[28:00]in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[28:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[28:04]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.