Nathan Harris, THE SWEETNESS OF WATER: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Momstone Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:29]And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram, adzibioins, and my website is zibioins.com.
[0:35]Okay, now back to this amazing podcast.
[0:38]Nathan Harris is the author of The Sweetness of Water, which was Oprah's book pick in July.
[0:45]Nathan holds an MFA from the Michner Center at the University of Texas.
[0:50]He is the recipient of the University of Oregon's kid prize, and was a finalist for the Tennessee Williams fiction prize.
[0:57]He lives in Austin, Texas, and The Sweetness of Water is his first and best-selling novel.
[1:03]Welcome, Nathan. Thank you so much for coming on Momstone Have Time to read books to discuss The Sweetness of Water.
[1:09]Why did it be here at good shop?
[1:11]So, would you mind telling everybody what your book is about just to give them sort of the elevator pitch,
[1:17]which I know is like terrible that I ask authors to do this.
[1:19]But, you know, just in case you haven't said it lately, you can practice it out now.
[1:24]Sure, absolutely.
[1:25]Yeah, the book follows two free men immediately after the Civil War during Reconstruction.
[1:31]And they're trying to decide what to do with their lives effectively.
[1:35]And they find themselves on the land bordering the plantation where they grew up.
[1:40]And they become very close with the farmer, George Walker, and his wife is a bell.
[1:46]And the walkers are grieving the loss of their son, Caleb and the Civil War.
[1:50]And the brothers are almost like a surrogate children who are not for a time.
[1:54]And they are working, George's land, to save up, to move north, and he's paying them a fair way.
[1:59]She's from the north originally.
[2:01]And little do they know as soldiers return from the Civil War and Bulldogs, the community continues to grieve, the Confederacy loss.
[2:09]That relationship will have catastrophic consequences for everybody in old dogs.
[2:14]In a ways that your ears will just have to find out when they pick up the book.
[2:18]But it goes in a lot of different directions and it's a lot of fun.
[2:23]So, you're writing.
[2:25]And I know I said this when we first got on.
[2:27]But I mean, it literally felt like I was reading a classic that I would read in school, like your language.
[2:33]I couldn't believe, well, first of all, I just couldn't believe you're so young in general, not that young people can't write.
[2:38]But that was just even more astounding to me.
[2:41]And just the, like, seriously, the maturity of your language and the way you put the reader right in the setting and the dialogue and the feelings, even of the mom.
[2:51]I'm like, this is really good, right?
[2:53]Like, hanging the laundry and like the secret fantasies about the man.
[2:59]I mean, this is good stuff.
[3:00]This is like, so how did you do this?
[3:03]How did you tell me about your writing career?
[3:06]How you started when you knew you were a writer?
[3:08]Like, and how you so effectively kind of get into other people's shoes and set this to.
[3:13]I don't know.
[3:14]I have a million questions.
[3:15]That wasn't very concise, but whatever.
[3:17]No.
[3:18]That's all good.
[3:19]Yeah.
[3:20]I mean, that's what writing to me is all about.
[3:21]I mean, you said it.
[3:22]I mean, that idea meant the theme putting yourself in other people's shoes.
[3:25]I mean, that's my goal of every day I sit at my laptop and start typing.
[3:30]You know, I was wanting to do that as best as possible.
[3:33]And, you know, I just, I just look at the people around me and sort of her inspiration.
[3:37]I don't know.
[3:38]It's, it's not that I'm writing about the people around me, but it's like,
[3:41]it is a bad thing about my mom to in the laundry.
[3:45]You know, if it's, we've all breathed the loss of someone,
[3:49]we've all sort of been in that position of deciding,
[3:52]what are we going to do next with our lives?
[3:54]Like, what the brothers are going through in this book on a much larger level, of course,
[3:58]but, yeah.
[3:59]So I mean, I, you know, I'll stand up and I'll be pacing for an hour just thinking,
[4:03]what would this feel like, you know, and then if things start to slowly click over time,
[4:09]sort of a, a English period there.
[4:12]And I, I just try to channel it, you know, and I've been,
[4:15]I've been writing for years to answer that question since I was a kid.
[4:19]I was always bad at science.
[4:21]I was bad at math.
[4:22]I was always trying to find that one thing I was good at.
[4:25]And I still don't think I'm a great writer,
[4:28]but it's one of those things you can work at every day.
[4:31]Unfortunately, it's subjective, unlike math and science.
[4:34]And that's a good thing.
[4:35]My mom is getting better.
[4:37]You can't just get an F on the right and go like the thing.
[4:40]So, yeah, I just took her braiding along with it.
[4:43]I think I should like go to schools and just recruit the bottom of the science class
[4:49]and be like, you're going to be a writer.
[4:51]I agree.
[4:53]Science is my, it's the only see I ever got in high school.
[4:57]I have to say this biology test freshman year and I'm still upset about it.
[5:01]I mean, it was, it was brought everything down.
[5:04]I couldn't believe it.
[5:05]Once it's there, you can't get it off.
[5:07]Anyway, whatever.
[5:08]Yes, not to say writers can't also be good at science,
[5:11]but maybe there's some inverse correlation going on.
[5:14]That's so interesting that you walk around and like take the time.
[5:19]It's almost like you're an actor, right?
[5:21]You put it, there's like a saying that actors use when they like set the scene.
[5:25]I just learned about this from my husband.
[5:26]That's what I call it.
[5:27]It's like I'm going to, now I can't remember, but anyway,
[5:29]it's like you have to, you draw on all your own emotions and then all of a sudden
[5:33]you like roll right into the dialogue that's in the script.
[5:36]Right?
[5:37]But first you're like talking about getting rejected at a school dance.
[5:40]And then the next second you're saying the line about, you know, that you're supposed to say.
[5:44]And it sounds like it's like a similar process, this like immersion,
[5:47]as opposed to just sitting and typing and having it be like,
[5:50]okay, well, this is what I think they might feel like.
[5:52]Right.
[5:53]Yeah, a combination got being an actor of this character.
[5:56]I could never do that.
[5:57]But you know, I, but there's elements of that.
[6:00]I mean, I guess I think a bit of almost Mars as perhaps that meeting,
[6:04]like a meditation of sorts, you know, and it's like,
[6:07]you talk about flow and it's sort of like a fiction writing flow.
[6:11]And it takes some time.
[6:12]Have you said there would be nuts and bolts?
[6:14]I mean, that's in bolts are super important.
[6:16]I mean, that's what we learned in writing classes.
[6:18]And that's why I tell writers that, yeah, take a writing course.
[6:21]It will absolutely help you.
[6:23]You know, you need to have that.
[6:24]But at some point, if you're going to really dig into these people
[6:27]or you need to reach that level or try to retell them where you are almost one
[6:32]with them.
[6:33]And that does involve some level of suppressing yourself for,
[6:37]I mean, all right, even a few minutes, you know, 30 minutes an hour
[6:42]and just trying to find those characters.
[6:44]Somebody says it doesn't work.
[6:45]And some days it does.
[6:46]There's the days you have to show up at your laptop every day
[6:49]to see if the characters are show up.
[6:51]And when they do, magic can happen.
[6:53]I love that.
[6:54]Yeah.
[6:55]I'm very happy to suppress myself.
[6:57]I find that a welcome relief from my own head.
[7:02]That's why I think I like books.
[7:03]I like writing and reading.
[7:05]And I'm just like, give me out of here.
[7:07]That's it.
[7:08]That's why we do it.
[7:09]That is a brilliant, you know, feeling of, you know,
[7:13]entering that other world.
[7:15]That's what it's all about.
[7:16]Yeah.
[7:17]Oh my gosh.
[7:18]Amazing.
[7:19]Also, the way that you,
[7:20]so this is right historical fiction, really, right?
[7:23]You have a specific point of time and a specific event,
[7:26]which launches it all, right?
[7:27]That man's patient.
[7:28]And what is that like that day?
[7:30]Right?
[7:31]Was that like, did you start off by saying like, I wonder what
[7:33]it would be like, like when you were all your life working,
[7:36]not working.
[7:37]I can't even call it working, but being enslaved on this farm.
[7:41]And then the next thing you know, it's like, okay, you're free to go.
[7:44]And that they'd imagine like would there be balloon,
[7:47]not balloons, but would there be fireworks,
[7:49]would it be like a whole thing and that like random,
[7:51]it's like some schlub who shows up being like, okay,
[7:54]about you can go, right?
[7:55]It's like, what is that like, what is that moment?
[7:57]What are they thinking?
[7:58]Are they afraid to go and then like, what happens next?
[8:02]It's really, it's amazing.
[8:04]Cause then we're right there too, right?
[8:06]We're in there.
[8:07]It's just, anyway.
[8:08]No, I mean, that was the, you hit the knee on the head.
[8:11]That was the, that was the compelling moment for me
[8:14]in the launch point of so much of it.
[8:16]Cause yeah, I love fiction sector in this time period.
[8:20]You know, I always have.
[8:21]It's just so much of what they were done through then.
[8:23]Honestly, we're going through now in a lot of ways.
[8:26]I mean, there's these tumultuous times that they're going to do then.
[8:29]And now, but that specific moment of the brothers being free
[8:34]and stepping off the plantation property.
[8:37]And just the world being open to them all the sudden.
[8:41]And I remember really what we were talking about being in their bodies
[8:46]in a way.
[8:47]And just kind of looking out there and being like,
[8:50]what would I do?
[8:51]What would anyone do?
[8:52]How do you know what to do?
[8:53]How do you choose what to do?
[8:55]And it was just strange to think, gee, I've really never read
[9:00]a novel that covered that specific moment.
[9:03]And I mean, immediately I was like, well, I can't do it.
[9:07]You know, that's I think a lot of writers deal with that.
[9:09]But you know, it's that classic laundry.
[9:12]It's not written.
[9:13]You have to write it.
[9:14]And I just decided I was going to give it my all, you know,
[9:17]age be damned and lack of experience to be damned.
[9:20]So, you know, I just I just went for it.
[9:22]And the sweetness of water is what came from.
[9:25]Well, I mean, Oprah seems to think you did a good job.
[9:28]So.
[9:29]And she does.
[9:30]Yes.
[9:31]It's also a compliment.
[9:34]So what was that like getting to be?
[9:36]And now I'm annoyed.
[9:37]I didn't go back and watch your interview with her,
[9:40]which I wish I had.
[9:41]Now I can do it after this.
[9:42]I didn't have time before.
[9:43]But what was that like, you know, being picked
[9:45]and then getting to do the book club with her.
[9:47]And I have to be like, what is that like for you?
[9:49]I mean, obviously life changing.
[9:51]But I mean, I shouldn't say that.
[9:52]What was that like for me?
[9:54]Well, I think it happens to be life changing.
[9:57]You know what?
[9:58]It's life changing.
[10:00]and it's indescribable because you write fiction in your own world. I say it's a universe populated
[10:08]by one and then all of a sudden your book is out there and every reader kind of has their own
[10:14]little planet in your universe. And you have these galaxies and all these people interacting with the
[10:19]book and to have Oprah acknowledging it and to make it a book club peg just blows it up even
[10:27]bigger. And you know you're slept up in an all I mean I was alone every day you know writing
[10:34]all the sudden you know she if they want your baby photos they want your entire life story
[10:39]you know you're flying out to California and then you're in front of Oprah and you're just having
[10:44]the conversation with this person who I mean she is the nicest person in the world and like the
[10:49]lovelyest person she just felt like my aunt or something immediately and you're just having this
[10:53]lovely talk about this this baby that is your book that you've been holding close to you know
[10:59]the chest for so long and it was it was a it was a magical thing you know I couldn't have been
[11:05]more honored her her end of all of both incredibly crazy. Sorry I forgot Obama you know
[11:12]it's like cheese. Oh you read a lot of books to be fair. No but it's true I remember
[11:19]that yeah you were on his whole list right that was amazing I mean wow so here is my real question
[11:25]is how do you keep up with your emails when all this stuff is happening like you must get like so
[11:31]many emails how do you manage the emails. Well I mean I'm lucky I have you know my my publicist little
[11:38]brown she she'll filter through all this the engagement and stuff like that but I mean I think to me
[11:46]it's a it's a framing question for me it's how do you keep time to yourself and to write
[11:51]and to do your work and so that's putting aside every morning you know for me and that's my time
[11:59]to make sure I continue on this path of getting the word on a page and you know whatever you
[12:05]short story on fiction my next book whatever it is and then as the day progresses you kind of lose
[12:11]that that sense of constant stress of I you know I haven't worked I haven't gotten this done
[12:17]and that and it's like okay you did the priority which is you which is your work and now it's like
[12:22]I'm happy I'll check my Gmail you know I got I got a few dollars like all day you know so yeah I just
[12:29]I just tried to prioritize me my best I can some things you know you just got to get to
[12:35]and then I you know enter into my inbox once that's over with so what are you working on now
[12:42]right now I mean I'm I'm back before watching a few projects and you know Tobias will
[12:47]probably said you know if you talk about a work too early it hardens it in a way you know you
[12:52]have this unmolded flowing thing it's like the wind off us and you know I mean my metaphor is
[12:58]breaking but it'll it'll hold into ice snap and you need to sort of water out there but yeah no
[13:05]so I'm not gonna speak to the next projects but they're there I'm feeling I'm feeling good about
[13:11]them by the way is off you know so do you feel like all this pressure do you feel like oh my gosh
[13:18]what if I don't what if the next one's terrible or what if I can't do it again or you know it's
[13:23]funny I was well the third the third thing we haven't talked about is the book or prize longlist
[13:29]and I I only bring it up not to brag I'm bringing it up because I was looking at issue
[13:34]you know who's not made as well this is one of my favorite authors and I was just looking at
[13:40]all the books you published and I've read some of them having read some of them I hadn't heard
[13:43]of some of them some of them are my favorite books I love we're into the day just the big book
[13:48]for me and just looking at his work and seeing how it progressed over time you know you just you
[13:54]just have to keep going you know um and I know I'm not saying he has any duds in his catalog I
[14:00]haven't read some of those books but I haven't heard of them something who haven't heard of some
[14:04]of them some some of them are fantastic someone might be okay I don't know but it's like you just
[14:09]have to keep going that's what you know being an artist is I think and I have these sort of you know
[14:14]iconic writers like him and Colson Whitehead and some of the others who I can just see that they
[14:19]just pushed forward no matter how much success they might have had you know and I already know
[14:24]like I've done I just hope to follow that path and just stay true to myself and stay away from their
[14:29]views and you know or that that feeling of pressure and just go my own way and make it what it
[14:34]is. Have you had a lot of support within the author community? Yeah I mean you know I go back to
[14:43]coming to the listeners I'm in Austin if you didn't know and I go back to entering the Missioner
[14:48]Center here that's the program my writing program when I was in a few years back and I mean the
[14:54]community that sprung from that and the authors who were working there in my cohort I mean it's
[15:00]an invaluable resource you know and to have them before all this happened and then to be able to
[15:06]rely on them after me so much and you hear other writing programs whether you know you go through
[15:13]what it's like you never existed to the instructors and it's just not the case here you know I was
[15:18]just getting tacos with one of my previous instructors and talking about my new work so it's you
[15:24]know you just have to find that you get to hear about your new work but I do not it's okay
[15:30]I'll give you oh no that's you know you got to help out those one are two people okay
[15:38]so much for your big quote it's completely not
[15:46]in hard in the work hard in the teensy bit I was okay fine
[15:50]so you just got to keep that small now yeah awesome okay well you've already given a lot of
[15:57]advice but a little more do you have any more advice for aspiring authors as you you know
[16:02]coming off the success of this book and all that yeah I mean I always quote Jonathan
[16:07]Leitha and I say I always make contact with your work every day I'm a really big believer in
[16:13]you know not having a work time for yourself or anything like that just sit with the work every day
[16:18]I don't care if it's five minutes it's an hour today I don't care if it's revising already
[16:24]new work you know and just don't have any pressure on yourself I always I always think that to
[16:30]myself in a tard and I always tell other people that because this is hard stuff you know and
[16:36]there's absolutely no reason for you to cause more anxiety for yourself just sit with it you know
[16:40]give it the time it deserves and you know interested no pressure and trust of
[16:44]the most important things and over time it'll write itself you know but it's gonna be patient
[16:50]be patient with yourself yeah that's what I'd say and how does your mom feel that now her you know
[16:55]midday fantasies or in your book for all to see oh my god I mean she's my biggest fan that too
[17:02]but yeah I mean when I I still remember calling my mom with the Oprah news you're not supposed to
[17:06]tell me body but Oprah didn't tell me that so I called her immediately it's my mom of course
[17:11]we did Oprah herself call you oh yeah Oprah calls you yeah yeah I mean I can tell you the whole
[17:18]story I was tell me the whole story please I mean I would so I have a lot of I view like health
[17:25]anxiety so it's like I'm always worried I'm dying from this and that's just how I am and my
[17:30]publisher told me there was news I thought it was terrible news I thought I was like they're not
[17:35]gonna publish my book for some reason you know and I had high I've got an eyes and I had read
[17:40]you can enter you can get in a eclectic shock where you have hives so I decided I'm gonna go to
[17:45]urgent care just in case so I'm out of panicking I'm driving to urgent care and I get this phone call
[17:50]from the Chicago number and lo and behold it's Oprah Winfrey so we have this phone call
[17:58]did you pull over did you pull over I got to urgent care I parked by then and then I'm pacing at
[18:05]urgent care and talking to Oprah and she's got oh Nathan I just I love the book and she's gone
[18:10]through different lines she loved and parent reading paragraphs to me talking about like ask me
[18:16]questions about the characters and I had already reached peak of my you know panic for the day so
[18:21]I was just kind of at peace with it all and we just had this wonderful talk and that's what I call
[18:26]my mom and that was so rare and unless you just nearly drove off the road and started to cry
[18:35]that's that's what it's all about you know you know growing up she read to me every morning and
[18:40]she's following every stuff the way and I can I can assure you that moms do fine time to read
[18:45]and he's done fine mom did and one of my greatest experiences is the Oprah thing and you know
[18:52]having her read my book you know it's it's beautiful I love that I just love that oh my gosh
[18:59]I'm now putting myself in your mom she's imagining if I can't think of which child of mine might
[19:05]ever be able to do that but it may you know maybe you won't be Oprah but I can I can't be sure
[19:14]but I'm sure you'll have this moment told me just as no I'm kidding I do I have those moments I'm
[19:19]very proud but yes you know I haven't driven off the road quite yet but they're still young you
[19:24]know I've you know there's still time for driving off the road good news yeah driving off the road
[19:29]good news yeah gosh the irony I also feel you know in addition to recruiting authors from the
[19:35]bottom of the science class heap I could also do like a you know if you are on anti anxiety
[19:42]medication come here and write about could you like I also feel like anyone with anxiety I think
[19:48]this is why when I talk to authors I feel like I like find my people in a way right because like
[19:52]I thought that anxiety and all that was so unique to me until I realized that like everybody I
[19:56]talked to you now feels the same way you know I'm
[20:00]thoughts and, you know, the bad news and the stress and the panic and all that, it's,
[20:04]it's so common.
[20:05]It's so common.
[20:06]You just have to own it and, you know, it's, you have to, you know, it's important to deal
[20:11]with it and to meditate or whatever you do, but also it's, it's, you know, it's okay.
[20:16]You're part of this world.
[20:17]You're thinking things through.
[20:18]You're dealing with it and, you know, for my writing, I try to lean into what are you
[20:23]thinking about today?
[20:24]Why are you thinking about it?
[20:25]You know, try to get it down in some way, you know, it would have been already fiction
[20:28]having a diary and whatever, you know?
[20:30]So I don't know.
[20:31]It's all, all of my fellow anxiety sufferers out there.
[20:34]I'm good.
[20:35]Yeah.
[20:36]You know, we're going to deal with the best we can in whatever way we can.
[20:38]So I love that.
[20:39]Amazing.
[20:40]All right.
[20:41]Well, this has been so much fun.
[20:43]Oh, my gosh.
[20:44]Thank you for coming on.
[20:45]Thank you for this absolutely beautiful book.
[20:48]I can't wait to follow your career.
[20:50]I'm really excited rising, you know, not even rising star.
[20:53]What do you say when someone's already a star, but it's just very cool.
[20:56]You know, there's sometimes like a book, it's all this attention and I'm like, oh, can
[21:00]it really be that good?
[21:01]You know, like I, I don't even want to read it.
[21:03]It must not be that good.
[21:04]I don't want to be disappointed.
[21:05]But this was so good and it was so beautiful and it was so easy to get like right into
[21:10]it, you know, like it was so immersive and you're just right in the scene and I just, it
[21:15]was fantastic.
[21:17]Bravo.
[21:18]It means the world to hear that, I'm so glad you enjoyed it and I'm so glad we got the
[21:22]chat up.
[21:23]Yeah, me too.
[21:24]All right.
[21:26]Okay.
[21:27]All right.
[21:28]Bye.
[21:29]Bye now.
[21:30]Okay.
[21:31]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[21:34]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibbowens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[21:38]Books.
[21:39]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and
[21:44]meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[21:46]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[21:50]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.