Dana Canedy, A JOURNAL FOR JORDAN: A Story of Love and Honor
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[0:41]Dana Kennedy is the author of a journal for Jordan, a story of love and honor.
[0:45]Dana is the senior vice president and publisher of Simon and Schuster.
[0:49]Previously, she was the administrator of the Pulitzer Prizes and a senior editor at the New York Times
[0:54]where she was a journalist for over 20 years.
[0:56]In 2001, she was part of a team that won a Pulitzer Prize for national reporting for how race is lived in America.
[1:02]Raised near Fort Knox, Kentucky, she lives in New York City with her son, Jordan, and wait for the movie about this book.
[1:09]Welcome, Dana.
[1:10]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to read books to discuss a journal for Jordan, a story of love and honor.
[1:17]Thank you so much.
[1:18]By the way, so I was reading this book around my kids as I do all my books.
[1:23]And my daughter picked it up, who's eight and was like, oh, how cool.
[1:27]Have you seen this movie?
[1:28]And I was like, no, honey, it's not a movie.
[1:29]This is a book.
[1:30]This is just a book.
[1:31]And she's like, no, no, no.
[1:32]And actually, you know what, it might even my son.
[1:34]Anyway, and they turned it over and like showed me.
[1:36]And I was like, I think I need, you know, I've just started wearing reading glasses.
[1:39]I mean, I did not even notice this.
[1:41]So it was like a movie that there's a huge thing here.
[1:43]I'm like, anyway.
[1:44]So now then I, this is before I started it.
[1:46]So I realized obviously it came out in 2008 and now a movie is imminent.
[1:51]Okay.
[1:52]So you didn't know about the movie.
[1:54]Wow.
[1:55]I didn't even know about the movie.
[1:56]And then I was thinking to myself, I wonder why I'm reading this book from 2008.
[1:59]But I don't care.
[2:00]I'm excited.
[2:01]And it looks great.
[2:02]You know, I picked it, you know.
[2:03]Like, I was just like, why are they doing publicity for the book?
[2:06]But anyway.
[2:07]So the book, the movie, the whole thing.
[2:09]First, let's start with your story of sort of loss and love and all of that.
[2:15]Would you mind telling listeners about what happened and why you wrote this?
[2:20]So I was a journalist at the New York Times for 23 years.
[2:24]And during that time, I was dating a wonderful man named Charles.
[2:28]And he was a really highly, highly decorated soldier.
[2:33]He got orders to go to Iraq.
[2:35]And before that, we dated for, as I say, eight and a half years.
[2:39]I never wanted to get married.
[2:40]I never wanted kids.
[2:42]I was traveling around the country and, you know, sometimes other countries, you know,
[2:47]and having a great time in New York and had this awesome hot boyfriend.
[2:52]And he, mean time was training men and women to be cut to be soldiers.
[2:56]And then later training them for war.
[2:58]But then he did get orders for Iraq.
[3:00]And before that, we had decided to get engaged.
[3:03]And when he got the orders, I was turning 40.
[3:05]And suddenly, it's one of those last flashes before your eyes moment.
[3:09]And I called him. He was in training and said, I think I want to have a baby.
[3:13]I just blurted it out.
[3:14]And he said, OK.
[3:16]And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[3:18]I'm not asking you for a puppy. Are you sure?
[3:20]And he said, yes.
[3:21]And I said, well, how can you make a decision like that so quickly?
[3:24]And he said, I made it a long time ago.
[3:26]I've just been waiting for you to be ready.
[3:28]And so the entire time he was in Iraq, I was pregnant with our son, Jordan.
[3:32]We knew we were going to have a boy.
[3:34]And it gave him a journal, a blank journal.
[3:37]And he became obsessed with this journal.
[3:40]And he filled it up with 200 pages of life lessons for our son.
[3:44]He got to come home and meet him once.
[3:46]He had six weeks left to go and he was killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq.
[3:50]My whole world collapsed. I literally collapsed on the hardwood floor screaming.
[3:54]And I had only been back from eternity leave for two weeks.
[3:58]I had a six-month-old baby.
[3:59]And my life had just fallen apart.
[4:01]And I had to do something because my baby needed me.
[4:04]And I, writing has always been the way I process anything good or bad or indifferent.
[4:10]Writing is my way of making it through the world.
[4:13]It's just, it's like painting to me or pottery.
[4:16]It just suits me and heals me.
[4:17]And so I started writing for very selfish reasons.
[4:20]I wanted people to know about this honorable man.
[4:22]I wanted my son to really know his father.
[4:25]And it became a journal for Jordan.
[4:27]The way you write about Charles, I feel like I knew him.
[4:32]His, like, hot body that you noticed right away.
[4:35]That was like the best description of a man ever.
[4:38]Like his rippling muscles.
[4:40]And like the ratio of the shoulders to waist.
[4:43]And like the arm bulging.
[4:45]And I was like, oh, this guy, you know.
[4:47]And how you like lead him to like on this date.
[4:49]And like you're dipping your toes in the water.
[4:51]I'm like, this is so fun.
[4:52]I'm like, so funny.
[4:54]You mentioned that because he was,
[4:56]he was very bold professionally,
[4:58]but it was incredibly shy personally.
[5:00]He would have been so embarrassed.
[5:02]I'm sorry.
[5:03]About these descriptions.
[5:04]No, it's great.
[5:05]They're saying them.
[5:06]Also, women everywhere have told me they've fallen in love with him.
[5:10]And I'm happy to share him with so many wonderful women.
[5:13]But he was an extraordinary man.
[5:16]He really was.
[5:17]You do.
[5:18]You did capture though that, you know,
[5:20]how he was like often looking down and quiet and thoughtful
[5:24]and, you know, such an artist.
[5:26]Oh my gosh.
[5:27]Like amazing.
[5:28]So I could see that he would be embarrassed.
[5:30]So I'm sorry.
[5:31]I'm sorry for that.
[5:32]Don't be.
[5:33]I liked embarrassing when he was here.
[5:34]And I'm still enjoying it.
[5:35]My family.
[5:36]I also love, you know, falling in love,
[5:38]watching someone's love story is great.
[5:40]And how you were so open to about how you were together
[5:43]for this long period of time.
[5:44]And yet you were only all in for a part of it.
[5:47]Right.
[5:48]You had like a foot emotionally at the door for all your reasons.
[5:51]And then finally, you let yourself in.
[5:53]And then he passes away.
[5:55]I just like, oh my gosh.
[5:56]I wanted to like leap in the book
[5:58]and be the person on the floor to catch you.
[6:00]Like, because you could just see it all happening.
[6:02]You know, it was like in slow motion.
[6:05]I kept flipping thinking, well, maybe it won't happen.
[6:08]Maybe it'll be okay.
[6:10]Especially the way you led us into your family life
[6:13]and your own relationship with your dad
[6:15]and your siblings.
[6:16]I mean, oh my gosh.
[6:18]I'm so sorry this happened.
[6:19]I'm just so sorry.
[6:20]So much.
[6:21]I am so grateful to you for caring about this
[6:24]and sharing it with your listeners.
[6:26]That has been so healing for me.
[6:28]Over time.
[6:29]It's been a long time,
[6:30]but I still miss them every day.
[6:31]Of course.
[6:32]The reason I talked about my family life is because you had to understand
[6:35]that to understand why I was so reticent.
[6:38]And so, you know, not all in, as you say, which is accurate.
[6:42]And he helped heal me.
[6:43]I did a lot of work on myself,
[6:45]but he just said I'm not going away
[6:48]and I'm going to love you.
[6:49]And I think I didn't believe it.
[6:51]So I challenged him over and over.
[6:53]And then the end.
[6:54]Oh my gosh.
[6:55]I really did believe it.
[6:56]And then verification of that even after he died
[7:00]was this journal where he talks to our son
[7:04]and says, if you want to know what I love in a woman,
[7:06]just look at your mother.
[7:08]I couldn't believe it.
[7:09]I fell in love with him all over again.
[7:11]And even that he like had the sense to send it to you two weeks
[7:15]before a month before, right?
[7:17]That like someone on his platoon had died.
[7:20]And he was like, I have to get this journal out of here.
[7:22]And you got it.
[7:23]I mean, it's like meant to be, right?
[7:25]Yeah, but I'll tell you the other thing
[7:27]that I don't think this is in the book.
[7:29]It's just to tell you about the depth of his love and compassion
[7:33]and his caring and protective nature for Jordan and me.
[7:37]After he died, you know, you got a horrible thing
[7:39]happens where the military comes to your house.
[7:42]Oh, it's the most horrible thing.
[7:44]And I actually wrote about this first on the front page
[7:46]of the New York Times before it was a book.
[7:48]Because honestly, I wasn't necessarily thinking of a book
[7:51]then.
[7:52]I just realized I was the only national journalist
[7:54]in the country that had that experience.
[7:56]I wanted people to understand what that was like.
[7:58]I also wanted to share the journal.
[7:59]I was proud of Charles.
[8:00]But the military came.
[8:02]And then they came back the next day or a couple days later.
[8:05]And I was in a fog by then.
[8:07]I just, the thing I learned is how physically painful grief is.
[8:10]It's really hard to breathe.
[8:12]And they came and they picked us up and suddenly my baby felt
[8:15]really heavier.
[8:16]But I was having a hard time holding him.
[8:18]And they took us to this military base in Brooklyn.
[8:21]I felt like I was in the back of like a police car or something.
[8:24]We had to fill out all these documents.
[8:26]And it was important needed a new military ID card.
[8:28]I couldn't understand why because he just had one.
[8:30]And I saw that it said they changed the active duty to deceased.
[8:35]I thought I was going to throw up.
[8:37]We get back home that day.
[8:39]And I'm shaking.
[8:40]I hadn't eaten.
[8:41]We haven't even buried Charles yet.
[8:43]And this was back in the days when people still had land lines
[8:45]with answering machines.
[8:46]And I come in the house.
[8:48]I set Jordan down and I said, Oh Charles, my God.
[8:51]How did this happen?
[8:52]I said, I can't do this.
[8:54]Please.
[8:55]I just give me a sign that you're still with me.
[8:57]And as God as my witness, I turn on the answering machine.
[9:00]And there's a man in Sergeant Wesley, I think calling from Iraq.
[9:05]He sounded far away and sad and had a scratching voice.
[9:08]And he said, Hi, my name is Sergeant Morris.
[9:11]You don't know me.
[9:12]But I was a friend of for Sergeant Kings.
[9:15]And he gave me your phone number.
[9:17]And he made me promise that if anything ever happened to him,
[9:20]I would call you and tell you that he loves you.
[9:23]And you're going to be all right.
[9:24]I couldn't believe it.
[9:25]Even after he died, he was taking care of us and saying to me,
[9:29]you'll be okay.
[9:30]So beautiful.
[9:33]Sorry.
[9:34]I'm sorry.
[9:35]That's so no.
[9:36]It's so meaningful.
[9:37]It's like it's amazing.
[9:39]Yeah.
[9:40]Yeah.
[9:41]I've learned so much about love and relationships since he died.
[9:46]And since I wrote the book, you know,
[9:48]most people don't interview their loved ones, their spouses,
[9:52]their partners, teacher and girlfriends and bosses and parents.
[9:57]And I did.
[9:58]And I learned a lot more.
[10:00]and the one I don't live with many regrets,
[10:03]but one that I have is that I didn't know earlier
[10:05]how much he really loved us.
[10:07]During all this research on him,
[10:09]getting the journal, but also even that voicemail,
[10:13]that message on my machine.
[10:14]But this man thought about what would I need to say
[10:16]to this woman to help her if I die
[10:19]and got that message to me even after he died.
[10:22]That's how much he loved us.
[10:24]You know, someone can tell you as many times,
[10:26]right, sometimes it takes like this super power
[10:30]to believe it, right?
[10:32]That's it, yeah.
[10:33]I'm sure he told you a bazillion times.
[10:35]Yeah, and it showed me a bazillion times,
[10:37]but you know, as, you know, I'm very secure professionally,
[10:41]but I was always insecure, you know, personally.
[10:44]It was hard for me to believe that somebody would love me
[10:46]like that.
[10:47]I'd never seen an example of it as you know
[10:48]from reading the book.
[10:49]My parents did not have a good marriage at all.
[10:52]I hadn't seen an example of a good solid relationship
[10:56]where people weren't, you know, having affairs
[10:59]and hitting each other and yelling at each other.
[11:02]And so this was different for me.
[11:04]And believe when your dad was like trying to take your car
[11:06]that night to see his mischief.
[11:08]I mean, oh my gosh, stuff that went on.
[11:10]You know, this is like, excuse me,
[11:12]as I'm like, snoting all over the house.
[11:14]I'm sorry, I don't usually cry, but I am so sorry.
[11:18]No, it's just, you can just like, your pain is so contagious,
[11:22]right, because you can just feel especially,
[11:26]I feel like it's so cruel because it did take you a while
[11:29]to believe it and then it was snatched away.
[11:31]You know, but maybe like, I don't know,
[11:33]thank God you didn't, thank God you let it in.
[11:35]Yes, and you know what?
[11:36]I have that for the rest of my life.
[11:38]I still own that, you know.
[11:40]And in a strange way, the relationship is frozen in time.
[11:43]He still looks the same, you know, our love is still the same.
[11:47]Look at that, you're dating a younger man.
[11:49]It's awesome.
[11:52]I don't mean I've had all, I've gone on to have a life
[11:55]without him, but he's always there.
[11:57]He's always at the center of it.
[11:59]You know, our son now is 15 and I've had to teach him
[12:02]about his dad over time.
[12:05]So Charles is still a part of us.
[12:06]He really is, but I have a very full happy life now.
[12:09]And as you know, there are funny moments in the book.
[12:12]There are, there are lessons about resilience.
[12:13]It's not all sad.
[12:15]No, no.
[12:15]And of course, you know, he's pretty full and happy and awesome.
[12:19]But I literally think about him every day
[12:20]and I'll miss him for the rest of my life.
[12:23]Well, I feel like it's such an honor that you wrote about him
[12:27]and let the rest of us in on this,
[12:29]because you easily could have not.
[12:31]I mean, it would have been so easy to keep this private.
[12:33]Like so many people do who are out there just like really sad
[12:37]and holding that grief and holding that loss
[12:40]and not able to share it with everybody.
[12:42]So I'm glad it's brought you comfort.
[12:44]Because thank you.
[12:45]There's actually on the part that you're saying that was so funny.
[12:49]There was one line that honestly helped me so much
[12:51]as I always yo-yoing with my weight and everything.
[12:55]And I've been in a particular like down on myself.
[12:58]Like, oh my gosh, I've got to like that of the kitchen mood.
[13:01]Anyway, you had this one line, which I can't find now.
[13:03]But when you were describing yourself in contrast to Charles,
[13:07]you said it's a matter of fact.
[13:08]Like I am this, I am that I gain weight when I'm stressed.
[13:12]Blah, blah, blah, blah.
[13:13]And I was like, oh, just like that.
[13:14]She just like puts it in.
[13:15]It's like, you know, there was no judgment.
[13:18]It was just like this is what I do when I'm stressed.
[13:20]And I don't know for some reason.
[13:21]I'm like, oh great, yeah, this is just what I do.
[13:23]Like this is hard to meet.
[13:24]And I'm just going to move on and like there it is.
[13:27]Why like be upset about it?
[13:29]Yeah, yeah, you know, for a lot of reasons,
[13:31]I used to think that you had to be a certain physical image
[13:36]to be accepted by a man to be accepted really in life.
[13:39]And the way that I gained actually ended up being gift.
[13:44]Because I realized I didn't have to be flirty and sexy
[13:47]and all that to be loved or to be accepted.
[13:51]You know, in any aspect of my life,
[13:53]that the people who love you are going to love you
[13:57]and are going to embrace who you are and see all of you.
[14:01]And that was a gift and something I needed to know
[14:04]and needed to understand.
[14:06]And now I realize that and I tell my son this all the time,
[14:11]the only things that matters in life is your village.
[14:14]It's my village that got me through the death is death.
[14:18]It has helped me professionally.
[14:19]It's helped me personally your village.
[14:21]It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks of you
[14:26]or whether you're completely anonymous
[14:28]when you walk out the front door to most people.
[14:30]They never see you.
[14:31]I don't really care about that anymore.
[14:33]Before his death, I cared about my village,
[14:34]but I really understood afterwards the importance of that.
[14:38]And that's what I embrace.
[14:41]Wow.
[14:41]And yet somehow still with all of this that you had going on,
[14:45]your career, like continue, I shouldn't say despite.
[14:48]I mean, why wouldn't it?
[14:49]But it's just another, you know, hindrance, right?
[14:52]If you're like carrying around all this grief,
[14:54]it's a heavy load.
[14:55]And yet you've like completely ascended
[14:57]to like the heights of the publishing world.
[15:00]So what does that like?
[15:01]And you had this huge promotion last year
[15:03]year before or whatever.
[15:04]Anyway, tell me about all that and how that's all tracked
[15:08]and you know, how you feel about all that.
[15:11]So I have a, I live by faith.
[15:12]I very much believe in God.
[15:14]And I used to, I will tell you,
[15:16]I didn't grow up in the church,
[15:17]but I used to say that if somebody close to me died,
[15:19]I would probably be angry at God
[15:21]and the opposite happens what got me through.
[15:23]I was surprised by that.
[15:24]So I give, I give thanks to God for an extraordinary career.
[15:27]And I started writing when I was 12.
[15:30]And I realized it was all leading to this,
[15:31]to this movie, to this book.
[15:33]There are life lessons in there that I could tell you about.
[15:35]I hear from readers all over the world.
[15:36]I heard from a 16 year old Muslim girl
[15:39]who snuck the book in Saudi Arabia and read it.
[15:42]And like I said, you know, saying,
[15:42]I now know how to choose a husband.
[15:44]I was once at a university signing books.
[15:46]There were 1500 kids in line
[15:48]and this petite little beautiful blonde girl came up
[15:51]in a very meat voice and whisk her to me.
[15:54]Thank you so much for your book.
[15:55]It's helping get me get through my own tragedy.
[15:58]And I said, what's going on?
[15:59]And she said, I was raped last semester.
[16:01]And I was the first person she was telling.
[16:03]I stopped the line, got her help.
[16:05]I mean, I could give you a million stories like that
[16:07]from traveling across the country,
[16:09]speaking about this book.
[16:10]I think the movie's gonna touch people in another way
[16:13]because there are lessons in our story about resilience.
[16:15]There are lessons about patriotism.
[16:17]There are lessons about standing for something
[16:19]more than yourself.
[16:20]For a while, men who live prison in New Jersey
[16:23]were given a copy of the book
[16:24]to tell them how to be a man and not your fault.
[16:27]And so that's what I mean about.
[16:29]I feel as though my faith led me to this work
[16:32]and the through line,
[16:33]whether I was running the full surprises,
[16:34]which I did, you know,
[16:36]or now as the publisher of Simon and Schuster
[16:37]and before our storytelling at the New York Times
[16:40]and with this book,
[16:41]the constant in my career has been the power
[16:44]of information, communication, and storytelling
[16:47]to unite people, to help people understand
[16:49]and bring us together, to heal us.
[16:51]And so that's what I have tried to do
[16:53]my whole professional career, professional life.
[16:56]And I'm trying to do that at Simon and Schuster
[16:58]with many of the books that we acquire.
[17:00]Wow, that's amazing.
[17:01]So I recently started my own publishing company.
[17:03]I don't know if you know this.
[17:04]Congratulations, no, my gosh.
[17:07]After the podcast, we've got a ton of talking about my gosh.
[17:09]I would love to honestly.
[17:11]That is super.
[17:13]Yeah, it's called Zibi books.
[17:14]And it came from a place of, you know,
[17:16]I really have just such reverence for authors
[17:18]and I've done like 900 podcasts or whatever else.
[17:20]And I just wanted to like be a part of it
[17:23]and make a difference and like put the author
[17:24]in the middle and the center of everything.
[17:26]Oh my gosh.
[17:27]And also to be able to say to people
[17:28]instead of like, you should write an essay
[17:30]because I had this like anthology.
[17:31]I, you know, I like to commission essays,
[17:33]but there are all these people
[17:34]and I'm like, you have such a great story.
[17:35]Like you have to write this book.
[17:36]And now I get to say that.
[17:37]It's the coolest thing ever.
[17:39]That's fantastic.
[17:40]We have to talk a lot more about that.
[17:42]So yeah, that would be great.
[17:44]Tell me two things about the movie.
[17:45]So you have Michael B. Jordan, right?
[17:47]Oh my gosh.
[17:48]I literally, I am such a moron.
[17:49]I thought this was like the author
[17:51]and the author's husband until I was like,
[17:53]oh my gosh, but now of course I realize
[17:55]and I was Googling the stars and everything.
[17:57]And how do you feel about this casting
[18:00]and the fact that your life is a movie?
[18:01]And I mean, that's kind of a feel-
[18:03]Let me say one thing, which is,
[18:05]whether it's the book or movie of my career
[18:06]and I mean this sincerely,
[18:08]I take these blessings very seriously,
[18:10]but I don't take myself seriously at all.
[18:13]My mom said, how's it feel to be famous?
[18:15]I said, mom, if you gotta tell people
[18:16]your famous, you're not famous.
[18:18]And I can't have done those in the air
[18:20]because I'm too clumsy.
[18:21]I would follow on my face.
[18:22]I swear.
[18:23]So I'm grateful, but I don't, I'm not caught up in,
[18:26]you know, the interesting thing is
[18:28]so Denzel Washington's the director
[18:29]and he's one of my dearest, dearest friends.
[18:31]We're very close.
[18:33]All people think about and say to me
[18:35]when they learn about this is Michael B.
[18:37]And oh my God, Denzel and the red carpet.
[18:39]What are you gonna wear the red carpet?
[18:40]What they don't see is when I was crying
[18:42]for six hours in Arlington Cemetery
[18:44]when we were shooting a scene there.
[18:46]Or when I had nightmares because they were showing me
[18:49]the clips of the Humvee blowing up
[18:50]and then I had a nightmare.
[18:52]You know, I don't care about the red carpet.
[18:55]And someone asked me, what are you wearing to the premiere?
[18:57]I found a dress for $200 at Macy's.
[18:59]That's what I'm wearing.
[19:01]I don't care about that stuff.
[19:02]But we have all become so close, Chante,
[19:05]who plays me is my little sister for life now.
[19:08]She's been in our house.
[19:08]She'll be with us on Christmas.
[19:10]I love her dearly.
[19:11]I'm very protective of her.
[19:12]She's gonna be the next big breakout star.
[19:15]Count me on my word on that.
[19:17]Michael B is a sweetie pride.
[19:18]Denzel and I are very close.
[19:19]The executive producer, we, you know,
[19:21]we all got to be friends and now we're like family
[19:25]and you're gonna see that in the movie
[19:27]because they poured everything they had into this movie.
[19:31]And it's beautiful.
[19:33]You know, there are parts that are hard,
[19:36]but it's thought laugh out loud, funny in some places.
[19:38]I tried to, we tried to make sure it ended on a hopeful note
[19:42]not artificially, but I'm a hopeful person.
[19:46]You know, I'm an optimistic person
[19:48]and this brought me literally to my knees,
[19:50]but I was in time able to get back up.
[19:52]And I want to say one thing if I can digress for a second
[19:55]because whenever I speak about this,
[19:56]it's just important for me to get this message out
[19:59]to anybody.
[20:00]who might need it, might be going through their own struggles,
[20:02]life is cyclical, and I never thought I would get over this.
[20:05]And what I want to say is that success in your life
[20:09]looks different on different days.
[20:11]They, I got the call to be the first woman
[20:15]and the first person of color in a century
[20:17]and 100 years around the pool of surprises
[20:18]was a successful day.
[20:20]The day Charles died, I swear,
[20:22]it was just a successful day that I got off the floor.
[20:26]A month later, success for me was getting out of bed,
[20:29]taking a shower and brushing my teeth.
[20:31]That was a successful day.
[20:33]And so you have to meet yourself where you are.
[20:35]And in terms of this movie,
[20:37]it's a long time coming,
[20:38]I'm a producer on the film, deeply involved,
[20:42]but it really is, it's my life.
[20:43]To everybody else, we're characters and it's a movie,
[20:46]but, you know, the Jordan and the Journal for Jordan
[20:49]is really my son and this is really me on the screen.
[20:51]The funny part is, there's this one scene,
[20:54]I don't think it made it to the final movie,
[20:56]but we were shooting at the Met
[20:57]and Sean Today was sushing up,
[21:00]you know, to Michael B walking with these heels
[21:02]and the music's going,
[21:03]and I wanna say, cut, I'm never on my best day,
[21:07]walk like that, a day in my life.
[21:09]The thing that has me slightly modified
[21:10]is she's playing me 15 years younger.
[21:12]This girl is gorgeous and thin and all of this.
[21:15]I told her, and Michael,
[21:16]I said, if Charles came back here today,
[21:18]he'd say, I want that day off!
[21:24]But it's beautiful, you know,
[21:24]I'm touched by everything everyone put into it.
[21:27]Oh, is it going to be on Netflix or coming out in theaters?
[21:30]No!
[21:31]It's one of Sony pictures and Columbia Pictures's biggest
[21:34]movies of the year.
[21:36]It's coming out nationwide on Christmas Day.
[21:38]Oh, my gosh.
[21:39]I'm sorry.
[21:40]I should have known that.
[21:40]I apologize.
[21:41]I don't know.
[21:42]I knew it was Sony, because I did see that.
[21:44]Who is that?
[21:45]That is amazing.
[21:47]That is so, so good.
[21:48]I'm super excited, Denzel.
[21:50]Fluted New York to show it privately to my son in me two weeks ago.
[21:54]We're going to have a premiere on December 9th,
[21:57]but you know what?
[21:58]Every year, I didn't do it last year because of COVID.
[22:00]I have a huge Christmas party in my house or cook.
[22:03]My mom's coming.
[22:03]We cook a ton and ton of food.
[22:05]And we have like 25 people.
[22:07]They've been coming for a decade for this party.
[22:09]And many of these friends of mine only see each other at the party.
[22:12]So we are going to have that party this year.
[22:14]And then we are all going to go to the movies and watch
[22:17]and not let anybody know who we are.
[22:19]Oh, my gosh.
[22:20]I love that.
[22:21]That's so fun.
[22:24]Well, I know what you mean about feelings successful on some days
[22:27]and like a totally a mess on other days.
[22:29]And like you, I've been through so much loss in my life.
[22:32]I'm sorry.
[22:33]No, it's OK.
[22:34]I mean, most people, right?
[22:35]Maybe not to the extent of like your husband.
[22:37]I mean, you know, anyone who's gone through loss and grief
[22:40]knows that it's hard sometimes just to like get up
[22:43]and face the world.
[22:44]And yet, whenever people ask, it's like, well,
[22:46]there was no other choice.
[22:48]That's exactly, I say that all the time.
[22:49]And by the way, I just see your resilience.
[22:52]you've started your own company.
[22:53]You're smiling and make up on.
[22:55]You look great.
[22:57]You get it.
[22:58]You're as resilient as I am.
[23:01]Yeah, but it's not like I woke up and said,
[23:04]I'm going to be resilient.
[23:05]It was like, well, this is like the worst thing
[23:07]I could imagine.
[23:08]But what am I going to do?
[23:10]Am I going to drop out of school?
[23:11]Am I going to, you know, all these things.
[23:12]Like you just have to.
[23:13]Anyway, but somebody said to me something
[23:15]that you might find useful, which is you
[23:17]don't have to feel strong to be strong.
[23:20]That's another good.
[23:20]So frustrated and people, oh, you're so strong.
[23:23]And I was like, stop saying that I'm falling apart.
[23:26]And somebody says to me, no, you're not, you know,
[23:28]you don't have to feel strong to be strong.
[23:31]And sometimes the best thing you can do is just stand still
[23:34]and let that wave of panic or pain or grief wash over you
[23:38]and live with it and go through it and then get up the next day.
[23:41]Yeah.
[23:42]Another saying that somebody who came on the podcast
[23:44]once said that really stuck with me is,
[23:46]God never wastes a pain.
[23:48]I just love that.
[23:50]Because it's like, what am I supposed to do with this?
[23:52]Like, I have this.
[23:53]I have to use it.
[23:54]I have to find my way through.
[23:56]And how can I, I don't know, there must be over it.
[23:59]And you don't have to figure that out right away.
[24:00]Sometimes it takes time to figure out
[24:02]what you're supposed to do with it.
[24:03]And that's okay.
[24:04]Yeah.
[24:05]Oh, well, I'm really excited for you.
[24:07]And I'm excited you're going to have a big red carpet moment
[24:10]even though, you know, that's not the BLM doll.
[24:13]And, you know, all of that.
[24:14]How does Jordan feel about all of this?
[24:17]He's so proud of his parents.
[24:18]But the funny thing is, when we were watching the screen
[24:21]and he turned to me and he says,
[24:23]Mom, can you please just tap me on the shoulder
[24:26]before the sex scenes?
[24:27]Like, close my eyes and ears.
[24:29]He's a 15 year old boy.
[24:31]So he's mortified at the idea of seeing his parents
[24:34]on the big screen, watching their romance on fold.
[24:37]But he's very proud of both of us.
[24:39]And he's terribly proud of his father, obviously.
[24:42]And he said he ended up looking a lot like Charles is one of them.
[24:46]Oh my gosh, yes, yes, like her twin.
[24:48]But there's so much of his father's spirit in him.
[24:51]We're very, very, very close.
[24:53]He is just, he's my everything.
[24:57]Oh, it's a smarter than I am.
[24:59]He's kinder than I am.
[25:00]He's funnier than I am.
[25:01]That's what you want for your child.
[25:03]Are you going to write any more?
[25:05]Like, do you have another book in you or?
[25:07]It's funny.
[25:08]Everybody asks me that.
[25:09]I'm sorry.
[25:10]I'm sorry to ask you all the questions
[25:11]that I hate when I do that, but I'm sorry.
[25:13]I had to know much for asking.
[25:14]I appreciate it, actually.
[25:16]And tons and tons of people keep asking me
[25:19]to write a book on resilience.
[25:22]I have to think about that a little bit more
[25:23]and whether I have enough to say.
[25:25]So I will write something.
[25:26]I've got kind of a busy life now with my job
[25:29]and with the movie and being a mom.
[25:30]But yes, I definitely have more books in me.
[25:32]I just don't know.
[25:33]Yeah.
[25:34]I'm leaning toward doing that book on resilience,
[25:36]but I have me to think about it a little bit more.
[25:38]It's okay.
[25:39]All in due time, I don't know much.
[25:42]Well, from your perch as both publisher and author,
[25:46]what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[25:49]The first thing is just write.
[25:51]Write authentically, write from your heart, rewrite.
[25:55]You'll find your own process for how to write.
[25:57]People ask me what advice would you give
[26:00]about the writing process?
[26:02]And I say, don't listen to anybody else's process.
[26:04]You'll find your own.
[26:06]And don't give up.
[26:07]I wanna, I swear, this is the truth.
[26:09]When I sat down to write this book,
[26:10]I really, I was looking at a blank computer screen.
[26:13]I didn't know if only my mother was gonna read it or not.
[26:16]And I could not have envisioned all of this.
[26:18]So you never know where it's gonna take you,
[26:19]but I didn't write for a movie or any of this.
[26:23]I wrote because I had something to say
[26:25]and I needed to get it out.
[26:26]And if that drives you,
[26:27]then your authenticity will come out on the page.
[26:30]Wow, I love that.
[26:31]Amazing.
[26:33]Dana, thank you.
[26:34]Thanks so much.
[26:34]Thank you.
[26:35]Thank you so much.
[26:36]Have a great day.
[26:37]All right, you too.
[26:38]Sorry for crying.
[26:39]Thank you.
[26:40]No, no, thank you.
[26:41]Bye.
[26:43]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[26:45]Don't have time to read books.
[26:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[26:48]at Zebioans and at Moms.
[26:50]Don't have time to read books.
[26:51]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[26:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:56]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:58]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[27:00]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[27:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:04]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.