Mary Adkins, PALM BEACH: A Novel
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[0:41]Mary Adkins is the author of Palm Beach, a novel.
[0:44]Mary's also the author of novels When You Read This, which was an indie next pick,
[0:48]a best book of 2019 by Goodhouse Keeping and Real Simple.
[0:52]Privilege, which was a today.com best summary,
[0:54]a New York Post best book of the week, and most recently Palm Beach.
[0:59]Quote, like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable,
[1:02]according to the Associated Press.
[1:04]Her books have been published in 13 countries.
[1:06]And her essays and reporting have appeared in the New York Times,
[1:09]the Atlantic, Slate, and more.
[1:10]A graduate of Yale Law School and Duke University,
[1:13]she teaches creative writing to aspiring authors
[1:15]through her 12-month coaching program, The Book and Cubator.
[1:18]Welcome, Mary.
[1:19]Thanks so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss Palm Beach.
[1:23]Thanks.
[1:23]I'm so happy to be here.
[1:25]I am so interested in this book because
[1:28]I have been to Palm Beach many times and have been
[1:30]in setting similar to the ones you're just going to be.
[1:34]And this has been really funny to read.
[1:36]So I am loving it.
[1:38]I just love the book.
[1:39]I am loving it, loving it.
[1:40]And it's so well written, by the way.
[1:42]I wish I had read it when it first came out and that this podcast
[1:44]wasn't now because I would have forced myself to start it earlier.
[1:47]But it's awesome.
[1:48]And I'm sure you know that.
[1:49]But I want you to know that I know it too.
[1:51]So thanks.
[1:53]And it's still pretty recent.
[1:54]I mean, it's only been out a couple months.
[1:55]So we're not too late here.
[1:56]Not too late.
[1:57]OK, good.
[1:58]OK, so what are you telling everybody what it's about?
[2:02]And then I'll go into Palm Beach's story.
[2:05]I have a couple that moves from New York to Florida to Palm Beach.
[2:09]After Mickey, who is the husband, Rebecca,
[2:12]is the wife.
[2:13]Mickey gets offered a job running the household of a man
[2:16]who has a home in Palm Beach.
[2:17]And Mickey is an actor.
[2:19]And he's kind of, they've just had a baby.
[2:20]He's tired of the kind of living paycheck to paycheck
[2:23]and gig to gig lifestyle.
[2:25]So they relocate for this sweet, you know,
[2:29]sweet position where he's going to make a good sat,
[2:31]like best salaries ever made in his life running this household.
[2:35]And the novel is the story of what happens to them
[2:37]once they get there so that their lives
[2:39]get kind of enmeshed in the lives of this billionaire family
[2:42]down there and just some crazy stuff happens.
[2:46]Including descending crazy parents that like come out of nowhere.
[2:50]Is that a real thing, by the way?
[2:51]Yes, that really happened to me down there.
[2:54]Oh my gosh.
[2:55]Like all of the parents came out of,
[2:57]I mean, that, you know, of course, some of this seems down there
[2:59]like or especially the setting, you know,
[3:01]things that happen kind of atmosphereically are drawn
[3:04]from real life.
[3:05]My husband and I moved down there for eight months
[3:07]when I was researching for the book.
[3:08]So we could like get to know the area
[3:11]and while I was researching for it and writing the book.
[3:14]And one night, just all of these parents came out of nowhere.
[3:17]And we thought like, certainly these are circus parents
[3:21]or something.
[3:22]I mean, they looked like, you know,
[3:23]parents you would see like get a zoo.
[3:25]And then I googled it.
[3:27]And they're, no, that said that they're native to South Florida
[3:30]and they just show up sometimes.
[3:32]Wow.
[3:33]So yeah.
[3:33]Queen, so you decided to make it like a lot of,
[3:37]like a reported novel almost, right?
[3:38]Because there's so much facts and figures and all of that.
[3:41]So like, did you go to that luncheon?
[3:43]Like were you the?
[3:44]No, I did not go to the luncheon.
[3:46]So in the story, Rebecca is a, she's a writer
[3:50]and she's a reporter and she goes to this like fundraiser
[3:53]luncheon and know that and that was fictional.
[3:57]That's not a real, that's not a real luncheon.
[3:59]I mean, there's something very similar to it
[4:01]that inspired it.
[4:02]But yeah, well, well, we moved on there
[4:04]because we, we were also in New York.
[4:07]It was very cold in the winter.
[4:09]My husband could work remotely.
[4:11]I needed to write this book.
[4:13]So it was more like researching for the book
[4:16]was a very good excuse for like relocating to Florida
[4:20]for eight months, you know, like no one had to twist our arms
[4:23]to do that.
[4:24]It was like, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, you know,
[4:26]we'll go live in South Florida during the winter
[4:28]so that I can quote unquote research for my book.
[4:30]And this was pre pandemic when this was going on.
[4:32]This was, yes, this was 2019 pre pandemic.
[4:37]Yeah.
[4:38]So there's a lot in the book about income inequality,
[4:41]disparity that like the gaps between the wealthy
[4:44]and the not so wealthy and the class differences
[4:47]and all of that kind of woven in and Rebecca, your character,
[4:51]is to run one into the spectrum about it.
[4:53]More so than her husband, right?
[4:55]Who's more like easygoing and it's a job and you know,
[4:57]whatever.
[4:58]And she's a little more self-righteous about everything.
[5:00]In fact, I loved when she kind of tempered herself at times
[5:04]and said, you know what, I've mellowed out,
[5:06]I've thought about this and even though I wouldn't take
[5:09]such and such a job for my own political beliefs
[5:12]or, you know, it's okay if you do it.
[5:14]And I was like, well, that's immature.
[5:16]Like, I don't like, do I ever come back around to fights
[5:19]and say like, okay, I don't know.
[5:21]I just like loved her self-awareness and ability
[5:24]to express herself that way.
[5:26]It was pretty great.
[5:27]Yeah, I'm so glad to hear you say that.
[5:29]I think people, it's been so interesting talking to people
[5:33]about this book because I find reactions to Rebecca
[5:36]got really fallen to camps.
[5:37]Like people find her, like my friends were texting me
[5:42]right when the book came out.
[5:43]Like she is so annoying.
[5:45]So some people find her level of being principled
[5:50]to be like, to be a little bit off-putting and extreme.
[5:54]And then other people were like,
[5:56]I really relate to her and I feel like she's the character
[5:59]that I've related to most in the book.
[6:01]So yeah, it's interesting to hear your perspective
[6:05]because you're kind of in the middle.
[6:09]That's true.
[6:10]I mean, I don't know that Rebecca and I would be good friends
[6:13]but I'd be happy to go to dinner with her.
[6:15]Yeah, I think we'd be really fun couple
[6:18]to go to Bradley's and hang out instead of crazy chef
[6:22]and whatever else.
[6:23]So yeah.
[6:25]And some of the things that you talk about
[6:27]in the household even with this craziness
[6:30]of what's his name, Mr. starts with an S.
[6:32]What's Stone?
[6:33]Mr. Stone.
[6:34]Mr. Stone is thought.
[6:35]Mr. Stone and how he like sits naked
[6:39]in front of his employees and like soaks his feet.
[6:41]And I mean, do people do not do that?
[6:44]I mean, do they, where did you get that?
[6:45]Did you make, tell me you made that up?
[6:48]I did make that part up.
[6:49]Let's see.
[6:50]Can you hear me?
[6:51]It says my connection is unstable.
[6:52]I'm good.
[6:53]Yeah.
[6:54]No, that part is fictionalized.
[6:55]I mean, so to research for this book,
[6:58]I, so I was living in New York for a long time
[7:01]for 15 years or so.
[7:03]That's where I met my husband
[7:04]and I was a lawyer and a writer
[7:07]and he was an actor and therefore a caterer,
[7:10]much like Mickey.
[7:12]And so I got to know all of his friends.
[7:14]I mean, really his friends became my best friends too
[7:17]and they were pretty much all actors,
[7:20]which also means they were caterers in between jobs.
[7:22]And so for years, I was hearing these stories about,
[7:26]like because we were, it was New York City.
[7:28]So like the catering, you know, they would cater
[7:30]all kinds of events,
[7:31]but a lot of them would be for like, you know,
[7:33]for the wealthiest people in the world really.
[7:35]And so I would, they would come home
[7:37]and have these stories.
[7:39]And so I was just like,
[7:41]absorbing all of these stories over the years.
[7:44]And it's part of what inspired me to write a novel like this
[7:48]like in this setting is because it was just,
[7:50]it was so rich.
[7:51]Like I love, you know, it's fun that sort of like
[7:55]this sort of key pull into like how the other,
[7:57]you know, how the other half lives type thing.
[8:00]So I did more formal interviews and researching
[8:03]for this book, like I actually sat down my friends
[8:04]and said, okay, like let's remind me of the stories.
[8:07]Tell me, you're like, what have you seen?
[8:09]What have you experienced?
[8:11]And so a lot of what's in the book is like,
[8:14]not, you know, it's not a couple of things
[8:17]are pretty close to things that I heard from friends,
[8:19]but a lot of it is just similar.
[8:21]Like it's just inspired by the kinds of things
[8:23]I heard from friends.
[8:24]So for example, there's a dinner in the book
[8:26]where they're talking about cryogenic,
[8:28]they're talking about freezing their bodies
[8:30]after they die, which did not happen.
[8:33]But what I did hear about was a dinner
[8:35]where they were talking about like getting
[8:37]stem cell injections so they could prolong their lives.
[8:41]So it was like a similar idea, but not exactly the same.
[8:44]Wow.
[8:45]I actually loved, I shouldn't say actually.
[8:47]I really loved that how much knowledge
[8:50]because you put into, now I'm not surprised to hear
[8:53]that your husband was actually one of the actors
[8:55]slash caters because it was so real.
[8:57]And, you know, I didn't realize what you had to do
[8:59]sort of as an aging actor and what that meant
[9:02]and exactly what the life looked like
[9:04]and the catering and the late nights and, you know,
[9:07]all of the stuff, it just became very clear
[9:10]that whole existence became super, super clear in a way
[9:13]that I love, right?
[9:15]You get to know another person's life.
[9:16]And like I'm used to being in the audience watching a play,
[9:19]right? And you wonder, I always wonder like,
[9:21]what are these people's lives like after?
[9:23]Does anyone recognize them on the subway when they leave?
[9:25]Like, you know, because they're here,
[9:27]everyone is staring in raft attention at these people
[9:31]and then like they open the back door.
[9:32]And sometimes you don't know, you don't reckon.
[9:34]Anyway, it's a very unique depiction of actors
[9:38]and how even if you're a successful actor,
[9:42]what life is like, particularly if they happens to you.
[9:45]So, right.
[9:46]Like you're only as successful as your current job,
[9:49]basically.
[9:50]And you're only as successful as your,
[9:52]yeah, your present healthy state.
[9:54]Like if you have a vocal hemorrhage,
[9:56]if you have an accident and you can't,
[9:59]hurtful.
[10:00]form than, you know, you don't get paid, you don't get paid.
[10:03]So like, and you can't book more work.
[10:06]So that was really, I definitely had a misconception
[10:10]before I was more familiar with that world,
[10:13]like the sort of stage Broadway acting world,
[10:16]which was like a six, you know,
[10:18]kind of quote unquote successful artist
[10:20]who's made it doesn't, like they make all of their money
[10:24]off of art, like only art.
[10:26]They never have to do anything except for seeing
[10:28]their dance or whatever, play music again.
[10:31]And so that was a really interesting thing for me to learn.
[10:35]Once I got to know professionals in that world,
[10:37]that like it's really, it's a lot more complicated
[10:40]than that.
[10:41]His year has been still acting.
[10:42]No, he's, he now is in genetics.
[10:45]So he completely changed careers and pivoted.
[10:48]You know, not like he loved singing
[10:50]and he's a wonderful singer, but he, you know,
[10:54]the lifestyle's really hard.
[10:55]And he'd always been interested in science.
[10:56]So it was a, it was a totally 180 degree career,
[11:01]career shift, interesting.
[11:03]There was also a line I found interesting in the book.
[11:06]I think it was, when Rebecca was interviewing
[11:09]for the ghostwriter position,
[11:11]or debating whether or not to go that day
[11:14]and Mickey said something like, you know,
[11:17]he was worried that she would be in the orbit
[11:20]of the wealthy because they act and breathe
[11:23]and everything is a little bit different, right?
[11:24]Like they need to be handheld and, you know,
[11:27]I don't, I can't remember the exact line,
[11:28]but it was something like that.
[11:29]It said, tell me a little more about that.
[11:31]And if that played out in your research,
[11:34]do you know what I'm talking about?
[11:35]Or should I go get the,
[11:36]Dan, no, no, no, no, no, can you just say a little more
[11:38]being in the orbit of like you said,
[11:41]something like the ultra wealthy are used to having
[11:45]everything taken care of for them
[11:48]and not being responsible for any of their things
[11:50]and it's up to the people who are sort of serving them
[11:54]to figure all of that out
[11:55]and would Rebecca be able to sort of temper
[11:57]her own personality enough in that situation,
[12:00]the way that Mickey could kind of, you know,
[12:03]subjugate his own sort of emotions at times.
[12:06]Yeah, yeah, that was something that came up a lot
[12:09]when I was researching and by that I mean,
[12:11]like talking to friends who,
[12:14]who really work for like the point 0, 0, 0, 1%,
[12:17]you know, like the billionaire class,
[12:19]something that came up a lot was the,
[12:21]like when people have this much wealth,
[12:25]I guess many of them from point 1 is hearing,
[12:28]well, like, you know, spend it,
[12:30]like spend their resources just eliminating friction
[12:33]in their lives, like eliminating as much friction as possible.
[12:36]Like they don't, right?
[12:36]They like don't want to have to do anything that they don't
[12:39]want to do, they don't want anything to be out of reach.
[12:42]They don't, like it's like that's what the resources
[12:45]allow you to do, right?
[12:46]Never have any friction.
[12:48]And one really fast, like I loved having these
[12:51]conversations with friends and one fascinating thing
[12:55]I felt like I picked up on in these conversations was,
[12:59]was not in, like not envy.
[13:02]Like the, you know, my friends who we were all making,
[13:05]you know, $50, $60,000 a year,
[13:08]living in New York City and scraping by and like,
[13:11]they were working for people who,
[13:15]whose networks was like $14 billion.
[13:17]But they, when they talked about it,
[13:20]it wasn't in this way that was like, wow,
[13:21]I would give anything to have that.
[13:23]It was more like, man,
[13:25]their lives feel really constrained and scheduled
[13:28]and sort of outlandish, but in a,
[13:31]maybe grotesque as the wrong word,
[13:32]just like in sort of an interesting way,
[13:35]but not a way that they were like, wow,
[13:37]I'd love to have that, you know?
[13:40]I don't know if that makes sense.
[13:41]Yeah.
[13:41]What do they think the main problems were?
[13:44]I think it just seemed so orchestra.
[13:46]Like I think there's a line in the book actually,
[13:48]like he talks a little bit about this,
[13:50]about how like there's no,
[13:51]the nothing is predict, like nothing is unpredictable.
[13:54]Like if they, if they want to read a book,
[13:56]they like have someone procure it.
[14:00]So it shows up on their counter.
[14:01]So that like there is no wandering into a bookstore,
[14:04]hoping someone has the book and then by chance encountering
[14:07]a different book you want to see, right?
[14:08]Or like the kind of surprises that we have
[14:11]when we actually have to put ourselves out there
[14:14]and do things we don't want to do
[14:16]like encounter like the grittiness of the world.
[14:20]Like when that's missing, something else is missing too.
[14:24]I think was the idea.
[14:25]And just wondering when you did your research,
[14:27]did you mostly talk to your friends
[14:30]who were serving the wealthy people
[14:32]or did you actually interview wealthy people themselves?
[14:36]I interviewed no wealthy people themselves.
[14:39]I interviewed, I mean, by wealthy we mean,
[14:42]like I know quite wealthy people.
[14:44]I am not personally friends with any billionaires.
[14:47]So I didn't have an access to any billionaires
[14:50]to interview for this book.
[14:52]So yeah, for this, and you know,
[14:53]since my main characters here are not the,
[14:56]are not the billionaire.
[14:56]I mean, the billionaire couple in the book
[14:59]are like they're pretty serious secondary characters.
[15:02]And so for researching them, I, it was online.
[15:06]You know, just like a whole bunch of online,
[15:07]like Mrs. Stone, I wanted to be like a self-made,
[15:10]she wasn't a self-made billionaire,
[15:12]but she was a self-made multi-millionaire.
[15:14]And to figure out, you know,
[15:16]what was realistic for a woman, her age, she's in her 70s.
[15:19]So like in her, a woman in her 70s,
[15:21]she was basically a self-made multi-millionaire.
[15:23]Like what would that person's life have looked like?
[15:25]And so looking into that, they're like,
[15:27]they're not that many in the real world.
[15:30]They're not that many women
[15:31]who have done what Mrs. Stone did.
[15:33]So like really it was just a handful of people
[15:35]who I got to kind of stalk online to figure out,
[15:40]like who are these ladies?
[15:42]Like what's their background?
[15:45]What seems to be driving them?
[15:46]Like how does their personality come across
[15:48]and interviews?
[15:49]It was more that kind of secondhand research.
[15:52]Interesting.
[15:53]I can't believe when you said that the oil painting
[15:55]and the dining room that they just kept repainted
[15:57]a wife's face whenever he would get divorced.
[15:59]Oh my gosh.
[16:00]That's a real detail.
[16:01]No, it stopped.
[16:05]Oh, for until the old friend told me about that.
[16:08]But that was one of those that was like so good that
[16:10]that is second.
[16:11]That's right.
[16:12]I'm not gonna talk about that.
[16:13]Yeah.
[16:15]So after your whole sort of experiment in Palm Beach life
[16:18]where you happy to come back, did you go back to New York?
[16:21]Are you here now?
[16:22]No, then we moved to Nashville.
[16:24]So my husband could start graduate school
[16:26]because he had pivoted.
[16:28]So no, I was actually sad to leave.
[16:29]I really loved living in Palm Beach.
[16:32]I love Palm Beach.
[16:33]I think it's like a really interesting place
[16:35]and a beautiful place and everyone's so nice.
[16:38]I mean, there are a lot of people who retire there.
[16:41]So and I had a young kid while we were there.
[16:44]So it was fun.
[16:45]It was fun cause like all of the people in our building
[16:50]where it was like 90% of the building were retirees
[16:52]and they would just like love to play with myself.
[16:55]It was just like a very happy, friendly place.
[16:58]So it's kind of sad to leave.
[17:00]Did you, how was the book received in Palm Beach?
[17:03]I have no idea.
[17:04]I haven't been down there since it came out.
[17:05]I mean, I have,
[17:06]but I thought you would do like tons of marketing events there.
[17:10]No, like I would have thought so too,
[17:12]but you know, everything's still virtual mostly.
[17:15]So no, so I've been doing virtual events
[17:18]with like bookstores and other places where I have,
[17:21]cause I don't really have many.
[17:22]I have one friend in Palm Beach,
[17:24]run really good friend in Palm Beach,
[17:25]but I didn't have any personal connections down there
[17:27]before I wrote the book.
[17:28]Like it was like, I found it like a fascinating place
[17:32]and was excited to set a story there
[17:34]and then to live there for a little bit.
[17:35]but like, I don't, I've no roots there, you know?
[17:39]You've been there a lot.
[17:40]Do you have roots there?
[17:41]What's your connection?
[17:42]Well, my grandmother lived in Palm Beach Gardens.
[17:45]So I've been going down there since I was a baby,
[17:49]basically.
[17:50]In fact, my parents used to like put me on a plane,
[17:52]be like, see later.
[17:53]Oh, well, my little brother, we would get like little.
[17:55]I like, I asked her at the other side.
[17:56]Oh, yeah, I just do that.
[17:57]Why, why did you know?
[17:59]I can't believe it.
[18:00]Just like flying to Florida.
[18:01]Like, anyway, there's a different time.
[18:03]But yeah, and my dad and stepmom were down there
[18:06]and, you know, in the winter and blah, blah, blah.
[18:08]And I have some friends who have moved there,
[18:10]by the way, relocated, living such a nice life.
[18:13]In fact, we went down once towards the end of the pandemic
[18:15]and I was like, I should move here.
[18:17]And we started like looking online for houses
[18:19]and like, it's like we're not doing this.
[18:21]But anyway, it's always like what your life would be like
[18:24]in another place.
[18:25]So I'm sort of jealous that you actually just did it.
[18:27]For all the time, I talk about trying new places
[18:29]and never do.
[18:30]And here I am still in New York
[18:32]and I'm like 45 years old.
[18:33]So anyway, well, yeah, it was pretty dreamy.
[18:37]For like eight months, it was pretty.
[18:38]It was pretty great.
[18:39]So what are you working on now?
[18:41]You working on another book?
[18:42]No, I'm kind of at the beginning stage
[18:44]of figuring out what the next book will be.
[18:46]So just the stage of, and by that,
[18:49]I mean, emailing my agent with ideas
[18:51]and that she shoots down.
[18:53]No, she doesn't shoot the dub.
[18:57]It's like she always has good thoughts.
[18:58]I'm like, have you thought about this?
[18:59]Have you thought about this?
[19:00]And then I'm like, well, I've had this different idea.
[19:02]So we're in that phase of tossing around,
[19:05]tossing around book ideas.
[19:06]Interesting.
[19:07]Well, I think you should just keep profiling communities
[19:09]that you'd want to live in.
[19:10]And that could be like a whole thing.
[19:12]Yeah, exactly.
[19:13]It's been around.
[19:14]Your next book could be Nashville,
[19:15]although I think it's a TV show, but whatever.
[19:17]So anyway, I'm actually going to be in Nashville
[19:20]in February at some point for a book event down there.
[19:23]So maybe we can hang out for a TV thing or whatever.
[19:26]I would love that.
[19:27]Yeah, or let me know about, yeah, you're event.
[19:29]I would love to come.
[19:31]Yeah, I think it's at some JCC or something, or I don't know.
[19:34]Oh, the books are going to be from Parnassus,
[19:36]but it's not at Parnassus.
[19:38]Yes.
[19:39]Yeah, there are lots of those here.
[19:41]Parnassus is like on the side.
[19:42]Yeah, and Parnassus is on the side.
[19:44]Yeah, Parnassus is adjacent event.
[19:48]What advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[19:51]Oh, don't get bogged down in rules.
[19:53]Like for a long time, I just was so bogged down
[19:56]in writing rules and not inspire, you know.
[20:00]I kind of didn't allow myself to follow inspiration.
[20:04]And I see a lot of people doing that.
[20:06]I mean, I work with writers now on writing novels.
[20:09]And so I see a lot of people come to working with me
[20:13]from a place of like, I've memorized 200 things
[20:17]that they need to be doing.
[20:18]And they feel wonder why they're like, oh, this isn't fun.
[20:22]And I'm exhausted.
[20:23]And it's, you know, what do I do?
[20:25]So that's what I would say.
[20:27]Just try to forget all the rules and like, you know,
[20:30]what makes, what you enjoy?
[20:32]Because when do we, like, I feel like I enjoy writing
[20:36]so much these days.
[20:37]And I think that started when I finally started writing
[20:40]what I enjoy reading.
[20:41]Like if I, because I love reading,
[20:43]like a huge reader.
[20:44]And I, so I just try to write what I would like to read.
[20:47]And I think when I just think about it really simply
[20:50]like that, it takes the pressure off.
[20:52]What are some things you've read lately that you've loved?
[20:55]Or just ever.
[20:56]I just read a novel last week called Surrogate by Tony Helene,
[21:01]the Surrogate.
[21:01]I just read this last week.
[21:03]I kind of put it down.
[21:03]It was at the real page charter.
[21:05]Wow.
[21:06]And what else am I reading right now?
[21:08]Oh, I just read Sora and Bliss by Meg Mason.
[21:11]I'm reading Harlem Shuffle, Colson Whitehead.
[21:14]And what else am I in today?
[21:17]Yeah, I think Ryan had like this stack of books
[21:20]that, you know, it's like, I'm kind of shifting
[21:23]between them all the time.
[21:24]Yeah.
[21:25]Yeah.
[21:26]I know how that goes.
[21:27]Yeah.
[21:28]Yes, I'm sure you do.
[21:30]Excellent.
[21:31]Well, Mary, thank you.
[21:32]Thanks so much for this fun chat and the hours
[21:36]that I've spent reading your book that I've loved.
[21:38]So anyway, it's been sort of delightful and indulgent
[21:41]to escape to Palm Beach while I'm here in the cold New York.
[21:44]So thank you for that.
[21:46]Yeah, my pleasure.
[21:47]My quickest trip there, yet.
[21:50]Well, it was, yeah, it was such a pleasure.
[21:52]Thanks for inviting me on the podcast.
[21:53]I love listening to your podcast.
[21:55]So it's fun to get to be a guest.
[21:56]Oh, thank you.
[21:57]That means a lot.
[21:57]Thank you.
[21:58]All right, we'll have a great day and take care.
[22:01]You too.
[22:01]Thank you.
[22:02]Bye, Mary.
[22:03]Bye.
[22:05]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[22:07]to Read Books.
[22:08]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibboens
[22:11]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[22:13]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibboens.com
[22:16]and sign up for my virtual book club
[22:18]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[22:20]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[22:22]Like, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[22:24]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[22:26]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.