Melanie Gideon, DID I SAY YOU COULD GO: A Novel
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[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Melanie Gideon is the author of, Did I Say You Could Go?
[0:44]She is the best-selling author of the novels Valley of the Moon and Wife 22,
[0:48]as well as the memoir The Slippery Year, a meditation unhappily ever after.
[0:53]As I say to Melanie in the podcast, I loved that book.
[0:56]I still have my copy from Write When It Came Out and was just over the moon excited to talk to her
[1:01]because I had followed along with her life back when her memoir came out.
[1:05]Her books have been translated into 31 languages.
[1:07]Wife 22 is currently in development.
[1:09]She has written for The New York Times, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Times London, The Daily Mail London, and other publications.
[1:15]She was born and raised in Rhode Island and now lives in the Bay Area.
[1:18]Welcome, Melanie.
[1:19]Thanks so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to read books to discuss.
[1:22]Did I say you could go?
[1:24]Thank you so much, Zibi.
[1:26]I'm very happy to be here and talk to you this morning.
[1:28]I have to say this book was fabulous, but I was so excited when I saw the pitch come in because this, The Slippery Year, was one of my favorite books.
[1:39]I've had it on my bookshelf since, I guess, 2009.
[1:42]This is my original copy and meditation unhappily ever after.
[1:45]And I was like, wait, I feel like I know Melanie Gideon from her book.
[1:48]Way back when.
[1:50]Well, that's so awesome.
[1:52]Yeah, so then I was thinking, I should really read this because in 2009, I had, like, where my kids even born.
[1:58]Yeah, my kids were like two.
[2:00]And now I have like high school.
[2:01]Anyway, I think I'm going to reread it.
[2:03]So I just started this morning.
[2:04]Wow.
[2:04]Shaking back into it.
[2:06]I wrote that so long ago.
[2:08]And when my kid was just nine and now he's an adult living in New York and, you know, it's just really sort of a time capsule.
[2:16]When I was in my mid 40s, you know, just realizing that there was less time ahead of me probably than behind me, you know, that mid life sort of.
[2:25]Epiphany.
[2:26]So I love that book.
[2:28]It's very sweet and dear to me because, yeah, it really captures that time in life.
[2:32]Well, isn't it so neat too.
[2:34]I mean, here I am.
[2:35]I'm in my mid 40s and I have, you know, eight year old, almost nine year old and in addition to three other kids.
[2:41]And yet, you know, I can relate to it as if you and I are having this conversation today.
[2:46]It's just a cool thing with books.
[2:47]Oh, thank you so much.
[2:49]Yeah, thank you.
[2:50]So anyway, I'm going to go back into it and your funny husband.
[2:53]Are you guys still married by the way?
[2:54]Oh, yes.
[2:55]Okay.
[2:56]And he still has that van.
[2:58]I think you think he must have a year or whatever.
[3:00]That was the last day.
[3:01]200 or 50,000 miles on it.
[3:03]Yeah.
[3:04]Oh my gosh.
[3:05]You have to return the van.
[3:06]Like you can.
[3:07]And he's like, I'll die in the van.
[3:09]Anyway, so funny.
[3:10]Oh my gosh.
[3:11]Well, anyway, it's like such a joy to meet you after all this time.
[3:14]Thanks really, really cool.
[3:16]Okay.
[3:17]So did I say you could go is your latest book.
[3:20]So tell listeners a little about what this book is about.
[3:23]Okay.
[3:24]So I would say sort of psychological suspense slash thriller.
[3:29]And it's about two single moms.
[3:32]Ruth who is wealthy and divorced and Gemma who is, she's widowed and she runs a small SAT prep company.
[3:40]And they meet at the Hillside Academy's kindergarten party.
[3:44]They immediately gravitate towards each other.
[3:46]They only single moms in the class.
[3:48]And then over the course of about five years, they become very, very close.
[3:53]And during that time, Ruth, because she's so wealthy, sort of showers,
[3:58]Gemma and gifts and lavish vacations and things Gemma couldn't afford on her own.
[4:05]And Gemma becomes aware that she's becoming more and more indebted to Ruth.
[4:10]And Ruth is sort of wielding her wealth like a weapon.
[4:14]And basically at one point, Ruth does something has sort of a public shaming.
[4:21]And Gemma uses it as her excuse to end the relationship.
[4:26]So now we are maybe two or three years later.
[4:29]And the kids are in high school becoming freshmen.
[4:32]And now Gemma is the one who is enduring that public shaming somebody at her SAT.
[4:38]SAT prep company has been taking tests for the kids.
[4:43]So now Gemma is in trouble.
[4:45]Ruth reaches out to her.
[4:46]And Gemma has really no choice.
[4:49]So she lets Ruth back into her life.
[4:51]And then the end and ends up having devastating consequences for the moms and for the teenage girls.
[4:57]Wow.
[4:58]And I love how you have Ruth like the two of them in the supermarket.
[5:01]And Ruth is kind of spying and ends up texting like right there.
[5:05]And watches Gemma like get the text while she's.
[5:08]What do I get?
[5:10]Yeah.
[5:11]I mean, that's like the ideal thing.
[5:13]Like, ooh, let's send this very controversial text message.
[5:16]Right.
[5:17]Exactly.
[5:18]And she's like, you know, has this is very titillating for Ruth.
[5:21]Oh my God.
[5:22]No, Gemma is the one who is, you know, a pariah at the school and realizing that she's got the power.
[5:29]Yeah.
[5:30]So she's right back in.
[5:32]So it reminds me sometimes like my husband will text me and I'll like, it'll come in and I'll just like flip it up.
[5:37]And he's like, you know, it's not the best feeling like texture.
[5:40]And I see you.
[5:41]Like ignore it.
[5:42]You know, it sounds familiar.
[5:44]I'm like, I was getting to it.
[5:46]I was in the middle of something.
[5:48]That's funny.
[5:49]So you, you also have them meet in this very like lavish affair that Ruth is putting on at the time.
[5:56]And so, you know, you say something like she's showing her privilege right away and like isn't it interesting that they're having ballet parking and lobster and, you know, all this decadence at like the meat and greed for kindergarten.
[6:08]And what does that say?
[6:10]So tell me a little bit about that and this sort of not culture clash.
[6:15]But, you know, how they met and what that was supposed to be saying and why she was doing that and just tell me about that moment.
[6:22]Yeah.
[6:23]So it's so Ruth decides to host the kindergarten meet and greet and in preschool, Ruth and her daughter Marley had a very tough time.
[6:31]They were both sort of on the outside, shunned.
[6:34]I mean, Ruth is sort of awkward.
[6:35]And also I think her wealth makes her, you know, her uber wealth, makes her an outsider.
[6:40]So she's determined that she's going to start off on the right foot at Hillside Academy and make friends and hopefully Marley will have a tribe and all of that.
[6:49]So she goes in with great intentions really wanting to provide this incredible experience for the parents.
[6:56]But it backfires.
[6:57]Everybody is of course like really turned off.
[7:00]It's an ostentatious display of wealth.
[7:03]And immediately the mothers, you know, are talking about her and she overhears them.
[7:10]And then incomes Gemma and she's this breath of fresh air.
[7:14]She is, you know, very down to earth.
[7:17]She and her daughter are not dressed up.
[7:19]They thought, oh, this is just a kindergarten meet and greets.
[7:21]It's like a picnic.
[7:22]And then when Gemma gets there, she realizes, oh, I've read this all wrong.
[7:26]But two of them see each other across the room and especially Ruth, you know, laser eyed on Gemma and she realizes, this is her, this is going to be my friend.
[7:35]I'm going to make her my best friend.
[7:37]So it's this very intense thing.
[7:38]Gemma doesn't feel the same way.
[7:40]Yeah.
[7:41]So that's how they meet.
[7:42]And Ruth immediately determines that Gemma is going to be a big part of her life.
[7:48]Unbeknownst to Gemma.
[7:50]It has a pretty little liars sort of vibe to it.
[7:53]I'm thinking about, do you watch the adaptation of that or not?
[7:57]No, I didn't.
[7:58]Isn't that called pretty little?
[8:00]The one with them.
[8:01]Oh, you need big little lies.
[8:02]I'm sorry.
[8:03]I'm sorry.
[8:04]Big little lies.
[8:05]Yes.
[8:06]I'm always saying those names drawing.
[8:07]This is what happens.
[8:08]I say, oh, my word's wrong when I don't sleep enough.
[8:10]But yes, big little lies when Laura Dern has the birthday party for her daughter.
[8:14]And it's like, no, over the top and blah, blah, blah.
[8:17]Yeah.
[8:18]Yeah.
[8:19]Yeah.
[8:20]Yes.
[8:21]It has that.
[8:22]Yeah.
[8:23]Yes.
[8:24]I can explore that.
[8:25]You know, my son did go to a private school.
[8:27]And it was not like this at all.
[8:30]Until maybe I should say until the kids got into high school.
[8:33]And then it started to get pretty competitive.
[8:35]This is not based on that.
[8:36]But you know, the environment.
[8:38]I mean, I know that setting.
[8:39]I know what it's like.
[8:40]The parents party is the mothers.
[8:42]The gossip.
[8:43]All of that.
[8:44]So I really drew on those experiences.
[8:47]I wrote an article recently about, you know, finding your people.
[8:51]Because I feel like in the writing community, even like around the world, right?
[8:55]Like, you don't realize necessarily when you're in a class with certain moms.
[8:59]And not that I don't like the moms in my classes.
[9:01]I have like so many kids in all these different classes.
[9:03]They're lovely.
[9:04]But, you know, your people might not be in your class.
[9:06]And like, that's okay.
[9:07]Right.
[9:08]But when you're in this mom, tight knit mom community, you feel like sort of forced that,
[9:13]well, if I don't respond to any of these moms, like, what does that say about me?
[9:17]Or is there something wrong with me?
[9:18]Or, you know, is there anything out there?
[9:20]Like, this is it.
[9:21]It's almost like you go back to kindergarten yourself when you become a mom.
[9:25]Yeah.
[9:26]I mean, that's, that's basically how you meet friends.
[9:28]If you have kids and, you know, their school age is, you know, you had these,
[9:32]it's not that you dump your friends that you had before you had kids.
[9:35]But this becomes your whole world.
[9:37]You know, the moms.
[9:38]I have four best friends who we've known each other since our kids were in kindergarten.
[9:43]And it's incredible history.
[9:46]But yes, I was lucky that I had these great moms in my class,
[9:51]but I have heard, especially if you have more than one kid,
[9:54]you're not going to relate to all the moms.
[9:57]And you might be closer to the moms in one.
[10:00]It's class, right?
[10:01]And then you just can't put in that effort, you know,
[10:04]with everybody.
[10:04]So I am though going to make it.
[10:07]I just decided I'm going to my second grade mom's night
[10:11]for half an hour.
[10:12]I'm going to pop in tonight to this drinks thing
[10:15]because I have to put in some effort with you for kids.
[10:17]I know you're so easy with the older kids.
[10:19]Like I got to know them so well.
[10:21]And now like by my fourth kid, I'm, you know, anyway,
[10:24]but I'm doing it.
[10:25]So yes, anyway, your books have raised all these issues
[10:28]of, you know, friendship and friendship groups
[10:30]and all that.
[10:31]And of course, with the admissions piece thrown in.
[10:34]And the fact that Julie, the tutor,
[10:37]really had fabricated her entire life
[10:40]and that she wasn't this foster child
[10:42]and that she was from a nice, you know,
[10:45]well-trained-ish family from Connecticut.
[10:47]And, you know, did she know,
[10:49]did she not know what liability do you have
[10:52]if you run a company for the behavior of the people who,
[10:55]so that I found to be another really interesting element.
[10:57]Like, are you responsible?
[11:00]Does do you know, do you not know?
[11:02]What if you do, what if you don't, does it matter?
[11:04]I, yeah, I think it matters.
[11:06]I mean, that when I wrote the book,
[11:07]that was very much varsity blues is very much in the headlines.
[11:10]And I found it fascinating because, you know,
[11:13]the SAT prep here is so intense.
[11:17]And then of course, there are inequities where, you know,
[11:21]if you're wealthy, you can afford to get your kid,
[11:23]maybe private tutoring or whatever.
[11:25]And, you know, that is certainly not the same for everybody.
[11:28]And I was just fascinated by the whole thing.
[11:31]And also, you know, the public shaming aspect of it,
[11:35]not just with like varsity blues,
[11:38]but just in general, you know,
[11:40]I still find it so fascinating.
[11:41]Any story I read on, read about that,
[11:44]I just, I don't know, it just is always, always interesting
[11:49]and scary, very scary.
[11:50]I mean, I guess that's part of it is it's terrifying.
[11:54]Because you feel like, oh my God,
[11:56]if I make one wrong move, this could happen to me, you know.
[11:59]So, but you survived.
[12:00]You sent your, you're sent to college.
[12:02]Everything you wanted to college, I survived, yes.
[12:05]And that intense time and he's fine, he's good.
[12:08]So, so there's that.
[12:10]Tell me a little about like your whole writing trajectory
[12:14]because I know you had some other books
[12:16]even before the slippery year and then wife 22
[12:19]and another one I forget so.
[12:22]Yes, I wrote, I've written a lot of different genres.
[12:25]The first three books were fantasy.
[12:28]I would say fantasy genre for young adults.
[12:32]I loved fantasy when I was growing up.
[12:35]I mean, the Chronicles of Narnia, Lloyd Alexander,
[12:38]Tolkien, all of those books,
[12:40]when I was growing up were just out and, you know,
[12:43]I think the books when you read when maybe you're
[12:46]between the ages of seven and 12 are really formative for you,
[12:50]right? They really make you a reader
[12:52]and a particular kind of reader.
[12:54]So, I explored that, I did that.
[12:56]And then I decided, well, what happened?
[12:59]A friend of mine asked me to write an essay
[13:01]about something about parenting.
[13:04]So I wrote this essay and discovered I had this voice.
[13:07]It's sort of a slippery year voice that was funny.
[13:10]And I've been writing on these very dark fantasy books
[13:13]and suddenly it's just like, oh my gosh,
[13:16]I could write something light and funny
[13:18]and moving at the same time.
[13:20]This voice was in me all along,
[13:22]but it just had been sort of dormant.
[13:24]So then I moved in that direction.
[13:25]I wrote the slippery year,
[13:27]which is very much in that tone.
[13:30]It's 12 autobiographical essays,
[13:32]sort of Nora Efronisk.
[13:34]Just about midlife, like I said, and after that,
[13:37]I wrote a novel, Wife 22,
[13:40]which also was in the same sort of genre.
[13:43]And then I get tired of writing that.
[13:44]So I thought I'd write a time travel novel.
[13:48]And that book, that book was so hard to write,
[13:51]so challenging, took me four years.
[13:53]And I wrote it and then I chucked it
[13:56]and then I completely had to write it again
[13:58]to get it right.
[13:59]So it was very arduous.
[14:01]And I think a lot of authors have that experience
[14:04]where they write the book and then realize
[14:06]it's sort of stillborn and have to write it again.
[14:09]It hadn't happened to me.
[14:10]I think it's a rite of passage.
[14:11]So after that, I thought I wanna write something
[14:14]entertaining and fun and dark.
[14:16]I really wanted to explore this like darker side
[14:18]of motherhood.
[14:19]And so I wrote, did I say you could go?
[14:21]Which was extremely fun to write,
[14:24]really fun to let loose that voice.
[14:27]You know, that none of us as moms,
[14:30]you know, we're not usually willing to admit it,
[14:33]maybe to our closest friends.
[14:35]Yeah, so that was, did I say you could go
[14:37]and have a blast writing it.
[14:39]So how long did this one take to write?
[14:40]It took about a year.
[14:41]Okay.
[14:42]Yeah, which is pretty quick.
[14:44]And when did you first, like two questions,
[14:49]like when did you know you were gonna be a writer?
[14:51]And then I wanna ask about all these different genres
[14:54]because they're all these, you know, warnings,
[14:57]like don't cross genres and be careful and blah, blah, blah.
[15:02]Like so I'm curious about your thoughts on that.
[15:04]Okay.
[15:05]So first, I mean, I read voraciously when I was a kid,
[15:08]I think my mom for that because she religiously
[15:11]brought us to the library every week.
[15:12]And I started writing when I was about eight.
[15:16]And my first attempts were like clearly plagiarizing
[15:21]the little house in the prairie book.
[15:23]I drew my favorites, maybe writing fan fiction,
[15:26]little house in the prairie fan.
[15:28]It was at that point.
[15:30]I just had these, always had these dreams of being a writer.
[15:33]It was, you know, from the time I was really young.
[15:36]And so I just kept writing and I wasn't very good.
[15:40]and I just kept at it because it was my passion.
[15:43]And I had this urgency to write
[15:44]and basically sort of learned along the way.
[15:47]And as far as switching genres, what can I say?
[15:51]It's probably not the wisest idea
[15:53]if you're trying to build a brand.
[15:56]But I just didn't wanna write the same book over and over again.
[15:59]And I, you know, that would have been boring for me.
[16:02]So yeah, so I had to do it.
[16:05]I just had to keep switching and switching it up.
[16:08]And I mean, I think it's been seven books
[16:10]and I think that it's worked out pretty well for me.
[16:13]You know, I think in a way,
[16:15]mail authors are given more freedom
[16:17]and celebrated more when they write in different genres.
[16:21]Perhaps in women are, there's certainly exceptions.
[16:24]But I think if you're writing woman's fiction,
[16:26]which I do not like that term commercial fiction,
[16:29]if you stay in your lane and stay on brand,
[16:32]like you might have a lot more success.
[16:35]But that wasn't for me.
[16:38]So what do you do when you're not writing?
[16:40]Like what's your life like?
[16:41]How many days a week are you, do you write every day?
[16:44]Like what's your, I do when I'm actively working on a book
[16:48]and I'm under a deadline.
[16:50]So for me, I'm not very romantic about it.
[16:53]It's a job.
[16:54]I, you know, it's, so Monday through Friday,
[16:57]I write probably for three to four hours
[17:01]and I have some idea of a word count.
[17:03]You know, like I wanna have 20,000 words written in a month
[17:07]so I can have a first draft usually within six months
[17:10]and then another six months to revise.
[17:12]I like having that sort of structure.
[17:15]So I tweet it, it's my job.
[17:17]And then in between books, I mean, in between books now,
[17:19]you know, I spend a while thinking about the next book,
[17:24]perhaps really outlining an idea,
[17:27]seeing if it works or not, tossing that aside.
[17:30]So that's where I am right now.
[17:32]And, you know, for me, it's a really fun, fun period of time
[17:36]because I'm just in my head.
[17:38]I can imagine everything.
[17:39]Everything has potential, right?
[17:41]So yeah, that's where I am now, exciting.
[17:44]Are you ever going back to memoir
[17:46]or you think you're one and done in that?
[17:49]I think I am.
[17:50]I think that time has passed.
[17:52]Yeah.
[17:53]And honestly, I don't think my life is.
[17:55]When I wrote that book, you know, books like that
[17:59]that were just kind of sweet and whatever,
[18:01]you know, they were doing really well.
[18:02]But now I think, you know,
[18:05]the only thing I'd have to write about is, you know,
[18:07]my experience being an author,
[18:09]which actually is, you know, really, I think occasionally,
[18:13]I think, oh, I should write a book about this publishing
[18:15]experience because, you know, there's a lot of dishe stuff
[18:19]in that experience.
[18:20]But no, I don't think I would,
[18:22]no, not at this point.
[18:24]What types of books do you read now?
[18:26]Do you still read lots of fantasy?
[18:28]No.
[18:29]No.
[18:30]No.
[18:31]It's really changed.
[18:33]I think when I was younger,
[18:35]I really read a lot of very, very literary books.
[18:39]And as I've gotten older,
[18:41]plot has become more important to me.
[18:44]I want a really well-written book,
[18:46]but I also want it to move.
[18:48]You know, I want a page-turner.
[18:49]But, you know, one of my reading now, Jonathan Franzen's
[18:52]new book, which I can't remember the name of it,
[18:55]I just read a book called Paper Palace,
[18:57]which was fun, unbelievable.
[18:58]Did you read that?
[18:59]I loved it.
[19:00]Yes, gosh.
[19:01]And what else?
[19:02]I forget all the books that I read.
[19:05]To say, I read so many,
[19:06]which probably is an issue for you, right?
[19:08]Yeah.
[19:10]Palace.
[19:11]I read, I love Stephen King.
[19:12]I mean, I read everything basically,
[19:15]everything New Yorker people,
[19:18]it's all material to mine.
[19:20]Excellent.
[19:21]Is there anything just on the writing tissue side
[19:24]that you learn from sort of your success in the past?
[19:27]Or is there any, do you feel like there are hurdles
[19:31]starting new books to like live up to the last books
[19:33]or have any of that stuff?
[19:36]For sure, yes.
[19:37]I mean, I've had all sorts of different experiences
[19:40]with the books.
[19:42]With the young adult books,
[19:43]you know, I really didn't get a lot of traction.
[19:46]Harry Potter had come out and it just,
[19:48]it just really wasn't working for me.
[19:50]So then when I switched to,
[19:52]and did the slippery on wife 22 suddenly,
[19:55]suddenly I broke out with my fourth book.
[19:59]So that's, you know,
[20:00]That says something about not giving up to all the writers out there.
[20:04]You know, sometimes it happens right away, but most of the time it doesn't.
[20:08]You have to find your voice.
[20:09]You have to find your material.
[20:11]So with slippery year and wife 22, it was just unbelievable experiences of sort
[20:16]of what you would dream, you know, being an author is like, and that was really fun.
[20:21]And then with the time travel novel, that was sort of a more subdued publishing experience.
[20:27]That was sort of harder.
[20:28]And then with did I say you could go, it was that was exciting again.
[20:33]So what can I say about having a very long career as a writer is that there are ups and downs, you know, sometimes it's great.
[20:40]And sometimes it's not.
[20:42]And writers tend to be thin skinned.
[20:44]I'm thin skinned.
[20:45]So I have learned over the years and not to Google myself very much, you know, not to go and read the reviews, whether they're good or bad,
[20:55]and sort of protect myself during the publishing part of the experience.
[20:59]I love the creative part.
[21:01]That's when I'm the happiest, the publishing business side of it a little less.
[21:05]Do you ever do any essays or anything like that?
[21:08]No, not lately, although we are moving.
[21:11]We've been in California for almost 22 years and we are moving back to these posts, which is where I'm from.
[21:17]So in January, so exciting kind of scary, but I do want to write an essay about leaving
[21:24]California and coming home because there's just so much to say about, you know, about California, about I live, I am moving back to Rhode Island,
[21:34]which is where my parents live where I grew up, all my sisters are.
[21:38]So that it's bittersweet, leaving here and all these incredible mom friends I've made and, you know, 20 years some places a long time.
[21:47]So I think I'm going to write that I'm taking notes for that.
[21:50]Okay, I have this publication moms don't have time to write.
[21:53]So if you ever want to if you want to send it to us, oh, yeah, yes, that would be great.
[21:58]I wasn't aware you were publishing.
[22:01]Yeah, I also have a publishing company.
[22:02]I published books called Zibi books.
[22:04]Yeah, oh my gosh, how exciting.
[22:06]Yeah, okay, I will definitely do that.
[22:09]Okay, okay, I can't wait to read that.
[22:12]I'm I would be very excited.
[22:13]Thank you.
[22:14]Okay, well, that was already a lot of advice.
[22:17]My last question is usually what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[22:20]Is there anything else aside from the longevity and the writing career or?
[22:24]Yes, I have one piece of advice.
[22:26]Okay, you're not everybody's not going to love you.
[22:31]I think what's realistic, what you can expect is that, you know, a third of people will love your books.
[22:38]A third will be indifferent and a third will hate them.
[22:44]And you know, that took me a while to realize and basically you're writing for the third,
[22:49]which is your audience who who love what you're doing and you need to sort of forget the rest.
[22:54]It's rare that it's, you know, nobody likes.
[22:58]Nobody is in this situation no matter who you are, how famous you are that everybody adored your book.
[23:03]Yeah, so that's my best advice to expect that and that's good enough.
[23:07]That's good.
[23:08]Wow, I've never heard that before.
[23:10]That's great.
[23:11]Thank you.
[23:12]Are you a writer, Zimmy?
[23:13]I am a writer.
[23:14]Yes, you are.
[23:15]Yeah, I just had two anthologies come out, but they're from authors from the podcast and
[23:20]I have two children's book.
[23:22]It's coming out and then my memoir is coming out in July.
[23:25]No kidding.
[23:26]That's called this.
[23:27]Can I just ask what it's about?
[23:29]Yeah, it's called bookends, a memoir of love, loss, and literature.
[23:33]And it's about a series of losses that I've had in my life and how books have always
[23:40]been through line of getting me through everything and how it sort of culminated in this
[23:44]sort of publishing business and what I'm doing now and along the way.
[23:47]I fell in love with my husband and it's about motherhood and love and sort of
[23:52]Oh my gosh, it's hurting over in many ways.
[23:55]Sounds great.
[23:56]Congratulations.
[23:58]Yeah.
[23:58]I think that's, I have a need of better pitch, but I haven't worked on it yet.
[24:01]Oh, that's pretty good.
[24:02]That's pretty good.
[24:05]I know the pitches are so hard to do the elevator pitches, but yeah,
[24:09]no, that sounds great.
[24:10]I can't wait for them like writing and rewriting it so many times in different forms,
[24:14]different sections for so many years and finally it's coming out.
[24:18]So I'm very coming together.
[24:19]Yeah.
[24:20]Yeah.
[24:20]I just like cut 20,000 words, which is still sort of like hurting me.
[24:24]Very much.
[24:26]I know.
[24:26]So, but it's still, I literally keep calling my letters.
[24:30]Are you sure it's good?
[24:31]Are you sure?
[24:31]I didn't just like totally ruin it.
[24:33]Tell me it's still good.
[24:34]Anyway, so we'll see.
[24:35]Wonderful.
[24:36]I can't wait to read it.
[24:37]Thank you.
[24:38]Well, I'll send you a copy if I remember.
[24:39]Oh, yeah.
[24:40]Anyways, great.
[24:40]I'll make a mental note, which in this, I don't know.
[24:44]I'll write an actual note because my mind is like a sieve these days.
[24:47]I understand.
[24:48]So it's mine.
[24:48]And I don't know.
[24:52]Well, it was so nice connecting with you.
[24:54]And I mean, I can't tell you how many times I like pass by and look at this fine in this book.
[24:58]And it's just, I don't know.
[25:00]It's personally just so exciting to me to meet you.
[25:03]And anyway, now I'm going to go read it.
[25:06]Oh, okay.
[25:07]Thank you so much.
[25:08]All right.
[25:08]We'll take care.
[25:09]Thanks a lot and good luck with your move.
[25:11]And I'll look for your essay.
[25:12]OK.
[25:12]All right.
[25:13]All right.
[25:13]Take bye.
[25:14]Bye.
[25:16]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:19]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zebioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:24]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebioans.com
[25:27]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:31]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[25:35]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and