Emily Itami, FAULT LINES: A Novel
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[0:41]Emily Atami is the author of Fault Lines, a novel.
[0:44]Emily grew up in Tokyo and returned there to live when her children were young.
[0:47]She now lives in London.
[0:49]She has been published widely as freelance journalist and travel writer.
[0:53]This is her first novel.
[0:55]But by the way, I'm sure this will not be her last.
[0:57]And if I were picking stocks on authors, I would pick Emily's as one to watch.
[1:02]Welcome, Emily.
[1:03]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Bex to discuss Fault Lines.
[1:07]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:09]I'm very happy to be here.
[1:11]I loved your novel.
[1:13]It was so great.
[1:14]There are so many things I liked about it.
[1:16]In fact, so many of the things that I sort of in the back of my head say are like,
[1:20]the things you should do to make a novel really good.
[1:22]You know, like, every opening sentence of a pair of a chapter, like,
[1:27]because completely attention-grabbing, the chapters weren't too long.
[1:30]You get totally invested in the characters.
[1:32]It has a strong sense of place.
[1:34]Like, check, check, check, check.
[1:35]You know, it had like all, it checked all the boxes.
[1:37]So anyway, it was great.
[1:38]Just want to do another.
[1:40]Thank you very much.
[1:41]That's really kind of you.
[1:42]It makes me really happy.
[1:43]So why don't you tell listeners a bit about what Fault Lines is about?
[1:47]And then what inspired you to write it?
[1:49]So Fault Lines is the story of Mizuki, who is a Japanese housewife living in Tokyo.
[1:54]And she appears to have like a really lovely, perfect life.
[1:57]She's got a nice, you know, like a good-looking husband who works really hard and
[2:00]two beautiful kids and everything.
[2:01]And she is strangely dissatisfied despite this wonderful setup.
[2:06]And she finds herself falling into a friendship with a restaurant that she meets.
[2:11]And it's kind of the unfolding of that relationship and how she kind of finds us
[2:16]out thinking about her identity and her life through the series of events that occur
[2:19]because she meets this map.
[2:21]And the reason that I decided to write it was, I mean, I suppose, obviously, there was
[2:26]not not, maybe not necessarily obviously.
[2:28]There wasn't actually a moment when I thought, I know what I must do.
[2:30]I must write this book.
[2:31]It kind of came in increments.
[2:33]And I was brought up in Tokyo.
[2:35]But I went back to live in Tokyo when my kids were really little.
[2:38]And I found that my life had, you know, changed obviously,
[2:42]and obviously in the moment that you have children.
[2:44]And of course, what I found that my identity was totally different.
[2:47]And I found it totally weird the way that the world saw me as a fundamentally different person,
[2:51]even though I kind of felt the same.
[2:53]You know, I'm me, but I have a baby.
[2:55]But into the outside world, I mean, I kind of feel like it kind of starts in hospital
[2:58]when people start referring to you as mom instead of calling you by your name.
[3:02]So that was kind of the beginning of finding that very strange.
[3:05]And to move to Tokyo, Japan is a really traditional society in lots of ways.
[3:09]So there, the difference between people between a woman without children and a mother was really pronounced.
[3:16]So finding myself living in that environment was really fascinating.
[3:19]And maybe ask a lot of questions about, you know, identity in general,
[3:22]unless both female identity and how to be a mother, but still keep your sense of being yourself.
[3:28]And I also was really loving looking back in Tokyo again,
[3:31]because that's where I grew up and then I came back to London.
[3:34]So going back there, you know, in a way it really felt like coming home.
[3:37]And in another way, I was discovering the city in the country in a completely different way,
[3:41]because because of my position of being an adult and being a mother.
[3:44]So it just felt like a really, you know, I really wanted to write about Japan.
[3:47]And I really wanted to write about motherhood.
[3:49]And it kind of seemed like a really good opportunity to be able to marry those things
[3:52]and talk about all these things I really want to talk about.
[3:54]So giving the timeline again.
[3:56]So you were born in Tokyo.
[3:58]No, I was actually, I was born in England, but I moved to Tokyo when we were like eight weeks.
[4:02]Oh, and I was like eight weeks old.
[4:04]Okay, do you have a twin? Do you have a twin or are you just referred to yourself as we?
[4:08]Yeah, that was like a weird moment where I thought I was in between.
[4:11]I was like, you know, I was supposed to be.
[4:13]That's okay.
[4:14]I met my family.
[4:15]I get it.
[4:16]I get it.
[4:17]I get it.
[4:18]You're family.
[4:19]Okay.
[4:20]So you were a baby.
[4:21]And then you lived in Tokyo until you were held.
[4:22]I lived in Tokyo.
[4:23]I was 11 and then I moved back to England.
[4:24]And then I kind of was back and forth, you know, Tokyo in England.
[4:27]As in just going after summers or like for a year when I was 18 and things like that.
[4:32]But fundamentally based in London.
[4:34]And then it was only when my kids were born by a family back to Tokyo again.
[4:37]Got here.
[4:38]I don't know.
[4:39]I'm like fascinated with this.
[4:40]Like why families go certain places and so your whole background.
[4:43]Yeah.
[4:44]All right.
[4:45]And then were either of your parents originally from Tokyo or.
[4:47]Yeah.
[4:48]My mom is Japanese.
[4:49]She's not from Tokyo.
[4:50]She's from a small town in Japan.
[4:52]But my parents might Tokyo and we grew up in Tokyo and stuff.
[4:55]Got it.
[4:56]Okay.
[4:57]Amazing.
[4:58]And when and where did you decide or know that you love to write?
[5:04]Oh, I think that it was really when I was pretty small.
[5:08]I was really bossy as a kid.
[5:10]I was always making up like players and stuff and making other poor children like being them.
[5:15]So I guess that was probably when it first started,
[5:18]torturing everyone with my like amazing creativity.
[5:21]And then I kept diaries all the time when I was teenager,
[5:24]which is really terrible because I just found them recently.
[5:27]And that was a horrific experience.
[5:29]But fascinating.
[5:31]So I feel like it's always always been a thing.
[5:34]And a lot of my work when I was when I first left university was to do with writing and stuff.
[5:38]It was either in journalism or working and publishing and things like that.
[5:42]So I guess it's always been part of what what I do.
[5:45]Excellent.
[5:46]And so what do you do in those in those jobs?
[5:49]We are going to talk about your book.
[5:50]I don't know.
[5:51]I'm like giving you a job interview.
[5:52]I'm sorry.
[5:53]No, no, no.
[5:54]As in the jobs that I had after university.
[5:56]Yeah.
[5:57]Like what did you do in English?
[5:58]No, I actually did field of G, which I really loved and was like fascinating.
[6:03]I had such a good time doing it.
[6:05]And then I worked for the rough guide for a little while.
[6:07]So I got to travel and write, which is just the best thing.
[6:10]I had a job working in the foreign rights department of a literary agency.
[6:14]But I was just kind of at the very, very beginning of that.
[6:16]And then got offered this job to go traveling.
[6:19]I was kind of, I think I was sorry.
[6:20]I was still in the kind of whichever, you know, the period where you, you, you, you can leave or not leave.
[6:25]You know, but you know, I feel like I have to say that because, you know, in the job interview kind of feeling of it.
[6:29]I felt like I had to justify my decision.
[6:31]That's okay.
[6:32]It's okay.
[6:33]You're still in the running.
[6:35]So then I got offered.
[6:38]Yeah.
[6:39]To go, you know, right.
[6:40]That was the first job that I got offered for the rough guide.
[6:42]So I was like, wow.
[6:43]So this somewhere I could be sitting in, you know, like, specifically writing about that instead of being in an office.
[6:48]So I'm just going to do that.
[6:49]Yeah.
[6:50]It was amazing.
[6:51]Yeah.
[6:52]It was really good.
[6:53]And I also worked quite a lot for magazines doing, you know, like lifestyle interviews and stuff and interviewing people.
[6:57]Which is one of my favorite things.
[6:58]Maybe this is not how you see it.
[7:00]But I was like, I just get to ask questions and be nosy.
[7:02]And then that's my job.
[7:03]This is amazing.
[7:04]Yeah.
[7:05]Don't tell anyone.
[7:06]Yeah.
[7:07]That's exactly what I do.
[7:08]Yeah.
[7:09]Yeah.
[7:10]Yeah.
[7:11]Yeah.
[7:12]It's really fun.
[7:13]Okay.
[7:14]And then when did you start writing this, this novel or.
[7:17]Is this the first attempt at a novel?
[7:20]Do you have like three in a drawer?
[7:22]Like, tell me.
[7:23]Yeah.
[7:24]I have some, I have like a fails novel or two in a drawer.
[7:27]I mean, I wouldn't even say they were failed.
[7:28]Right.
[7:29]They were just.
[7:30]Right.
[7:31]Which is the early attempt.
[7:32]Yeah.
[7:33]Exactly.
[7:34]And then this one I started, I actually started off.
[7:35]We got back to the UK from nothing in Japan.
[7:38]For me, anyway, I feel like I have a clear or maybe it's not entirely accurate, but easier to write about picture of a place when I'm not in it.
[7:46]So, you know, like always being between Tokyo and London.
[7:49]I have strong feelings about the place that I'm not in.
[7:52]Yeah.
[7:53]You know, the one that I'm living in at the time.
[7:55]Yeah.
[7:56]So when I got back that I wanted to write about Tokyo.
[7:58]So I started it then.
[7:59]And how are your kids?
[8:00]And then I promise we will talk about this book.
[8:02]And then I promise we will talk about this book.
[8:04]No, this is good.
[8:05]My kids are nine and seven right now.
[8:07]Excellent.
[8:08]I have, I have almost nine and almost seven with my little.
[8:12]Okay.
[8:13]And then I have two.
[8:14]Yeah.
[8:15]Almost 15.
[8:16]Anyway.
[8:17]Well, not almost 14 and a half.
[8:19]Okay.
[8:20]So let's talk about your characters and the sort of motherhood.
[8:23]Meles that play.
[8:25]How do you pronounce her name again?
[8:27]Me for now.
[8:28]Suzuki.
[8:29]So a few lines that jumped right out at me.
[8:32]You said maybe this was when it began on the Tuesday night when I was thinking of jumping off the balcony.
[8:37]Well, Tatsuya checked work emails on his phone.
[8:39]I mean, what a great line.
[8:41]I'm sorry for the.
[8:44]The tears were another sign that things in my marriage were somewhat awry.
[8:48]Always a good sign.
[8:49]Is it normal to fluctuate so quickly between feeling tender toward your husband and fervently wishing him a violent death?
[8:55]Another great one.
[8:57]And then just like to sum up sort of the crux of many of her feelings.
[9:02]You said, you know, after you're describing her, you know, why should she be upset?
[9:06]She's got this beautiful apartment and everything's going well.
[9:08]She said, I know it and I know how lucky I am.
[9:10]I know that any kind of whining is one major first world soak.
[9:14]From now on, I'm going to be happy.
[9:16]Shut up about all my demons and make everyone around me smile.
[9:19]I'm going to devote my whole life, all my energy to it because it's the only acceptable thing under the circumstances.
[9:26]But of course, it's easier said than done.
[9:29]So this whole notion of on the outside things looking fine, but on the inside having a lot of unhappiness or dissatisfaction or whatever is.
[9:39]So common and it always like, I feel like people beat themselves up so much about it when they think like, well, I have no right to feel this way.
[9:48]Like how could I in whatever and that doesn't stop it.
[9:51]So just take me into that frame of mind and how she's really thinking and feeling about it.
[9:56]Well, I think that again, I think that's Japan thing.
[10:00]was a catalyst for what her character was like, because in Japan, I mean Tokyo in particular,
[10:05]it looks so perfect. It looks so perfect. Everyone is so unlikely that they dress and everything
[10:11]functions so beautifully and everywhere that you go, so gorgeous to look at and it kind of,
[10:15]I feel like it's a really heightened version of, I mean I wouldn't quite say I was like living
[10:19]in social media a whole time, but you know that kind of thing that it looks insanely gorgeous.
[10:24]And I suppose that in that instance, I was looking at those women who looked so amazing
[10:31]and so well put together and whose children appeared never to scream and everything and
[10:35]playing sort of really neatly in the sandbox and my children would be doing,
[10:38]you know, like average kid things like throwing themselves around and like being covered in food
[10:41]and something like that. And I can't really believe that people can be having that the insides
[10:46]of their heads can be so different from the insides of what we know of people, you know, just from
[10:51]all my friends to talk to them and stuff. So I guess I kind of started thinking about that
[10:55]and so I was imagining what music you might be like as I was looking all these very perfect people
[11:00]around me. And I think that music, herself, she had a particular disconnect because she had gone,
[11:05]she's gone off to the States for a little while. So she's kind of aware that there is another way
[11:10]of doing things. And I think that that's always a difficulty to some degree that if you accept that
[11:14]this is, you know, because it's certainly not, I wouldn't want to give the impression that I'm saying
[11:19]that Japanese society is so closed and it's much better to do it in a different way and people
[11:24]women are unhappy there. I mean, that's not the case at all. It's just that it's such a different
[11:27]way of doing things, you know? So once she sees it in the West, there's another way. I think that
[11:31]whatever way it is that you're doing, if you're aware that there's another option, it kind of
[11:36]bubbles your mind more. Not that it's a bad thing necessarily, but it can make you massively
[11:40]question all the things that it go in one of your life that before you might have taken for granted,
[11:44]because I mean, there is without a doubt, a value in people who people having their place,
[11:50]that's kind of the way that the whole Japanese society functions are perfectly, you know?
[11:53]I mean, and now as women who work, I think that we're probably aware, I constantly think I really
[11:58]need a really good wife, you know, someone who really takes care of stuff and cooks everything
[12:03]comfortably and they show over, there's a reason why it was a good idea to have a wife, right?
[12:08]It just doesn't work out so well if the only thing that you can do, maybe is be the wife,
[12:12]but that's not what you want to do. My mother calls my stepfather her wife, which
[12:20]I don't think very well. He's so chill, he's just always like, yeah, whatever, you know.
[12:25]But yes, maybe the wifely responsibilities, you know, it shouldn't have anything really to do with
[12:30]marriage, these roles, right? It's actually a job. I mean, when you think about it and say,
[12:34]oh, such a job, right? And if you were an enemy or a housekeeper, you'd be getting paid for it,
[12:41]yeah, assistant or whatever, you know, it's like 10 jobs in one, to be honest.
[12:45]It really is. It's just because your marriage doesn't mean you're well suited to those jobs at
[12:51]all. I always think about like a Victorian household where you had like 25 people doing them and
[12:56]something made you went to like split between two of you, like it's insane. That's true. I don't
[13:02]ever think about it like that, but now I will. The sweeping long skirts and the pair sells and
[13:08]you know, it's a nice way to look at life as opposed to, you know, the chaos in my kitchen with
[13:14]my dishes and the sink this morning and, you know, trying to get everything done. Anyway, yes,
[13:19]that does sound lovely. And Mizuki says in the book, you know, this whole role of housewife,
[13:24]which has its own like characters, which you show, like it's a thing. It's like a, you know,
[13:28]does she want it or does she not want it? And what do you do when you just somehow inherit it
[13:32]against perhaps your will? What then? What happens then?
[13:36]No. And if you can't get out of it, that's the thing I suppose there's more difficult
[13:39]unless society that is generally more traditional. Because I believe probably that if in the states
[13:44]or in the UK, you just didn't want to do that anymore, you could do something probably you could,
[13:49]you know, you could, whatever, you could retrain, you could get a job, you could, you could change
[13:53]your social status. I mean, not necessarily easily, but and I feel I just feel that it would be a lot
[13:58]more difficult and more traditional society. And not to mention that Mizuki says like,
[14:03]she should be judged harshly by other moms. Like she feels like a bad mom all the time. And it's
[14:07]like showing up with her kid naked and doing all these crazy things. Like he's like, you know,
[14:12]if anybody's going to rationally evaluate her, she feels not so great about it anyway. So,
[14:17]you know, even more fodder for perhaps not. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And also, I mean, the way you
[14:25]depict her husband is like, it's with a sense of humor at the same time. Right. I mean, you're
[14:31]poking so much fun at this man who's sort of like the, the prototype of a busy working dad,
[14:37]blah, blah, blah, but it's like, you know, it's like you've taken your camera focus and made
[14:41]it extra sharp on him right now. So tell me a little bit about developing his character.
[14:46]Yeah, I feel like it's important. I would need to point out that, you know, I didn't intend to paint
[14:50]him as the villain. I wanted to, I wanted to write a book where everything happens is not
[14:56]anyone's fault. It's just the situation. And it's, I suppose, it's the society that's
[15:00]contributed to it, but it just is the situation. You know, he is certainly not a bad father or a
[15:05]bad, he's not a bad husband. He's a very, he's an neglect for an husband, but not because he
[15:11]intends to be just because, you know, the situation that he's in is made in that way. He works
[15:14]completely crazy hours. And he just doesn't have any time left for his wife or I think he has a little
[15:20]bit more for his kid because he's making such an effort, but it's really unsurprising that
[15:24]their relationship is a thing to fall by the way side, right? I mean, it's totally unsurprising.
[15:28]And I think that that period of time as well when children are very small, no one's slept. Everyone
[15:33]is, you know, dealing with sort of domestic admin and like toilet training the whole time. It's not
[15:38]very conducive to having like a beautiful romantic relationship with the best times anyway. And then
[15:44]those are always the times as well that period of your life when people are trying to, that's
[15:48]when your career has to take off. I mean, it's crazy. Only we could figure out how to either put our
[15:52]careers off until we were 50 or have children at age or at least we could just stagger them in
[15:56]some way instead. We've got these couple of decades where everything has to happen at once.
[16:00]Everyone's just so insanely squeezed. So I think Tatsu is just a product of that situation.
[16:05]A music he is well away, you know, that he's not a bad person and that they had a really
[16:09]good relationship. I think she just, she misses him so much. I feel like maybe she wouldn't even
[16:14]it wouldn't be so bad if she hadn't actually really quite liked him to stop with. And she just
[16:18]wishes that he was there again and that they could have the relationship that they had before.
[16:22]that someone would see her so that she wasn't just an invisible, you know, take care of all of
[16:28]the things that need to be looked after in the house and nothing else. And are you married?
[16:32]Still to the, has been to the father of your kids? I am still married because someone who is not
[16:38]like Tatsu. She's wondering like how your husband feels and you're writing novels about like,
[16:43]you know, throwing your jumping off of a building and wanting to like murder your husband,
[16:48]you know, how he's like, oh, this is good honey. Well, every social situation we go to now,
[16:53]he's like, so let's start off by you telling everyone that the book wasn't about us. Okay.
[16:59]Yeah. Cool. I'm maybe putting him through it. I hope.
[17:06]And now that, you know, obviously you finish this book a little bit ago because now it's
[17:10]come out and blah, blah, blah. So have you written anything in the interim? Are you
[17:14]you have another book coming out? Like what's your, what are you up to now? What have you been
[17:18]up to since? Yes, I'm doing some more writing. I'm working on another book, which I'm really
[17:23]happy to be doing because you know, that's always a really super fun thing. I think the beginning
[17:29]stage is it always tricky because you're kind of, for me, it feels like you're feeling around in
[17:33]the dark a little bit, a little bit still, you know, until it kind of becomes clear and it's all
[17:37]different phases of it. So I'm doing that. I mean, I'm a teacher as well. So I'm also teaching and doing
[17:41]all that jazz and yeah, you know, just like all the women as you've had, not just the women or
[17:46]all people who are very busy here. Yes. Have you ever written a memoir? Have you thought about
[17:52]writing a memoir? No. I feel like I feel not not yet. Let's hope that enough more and more
[17:58]exciting things. Maybe when I'm like 85. I think I'll let it.
[18:02]And do what do you like to read when you're not writing? Oh, everything. Like so many good things.
[18:08]It's been a really good year actually, hasn't it? There are loads of American authors who
[18:11]are really love actually. And recently, I've been reading a lot of them. They see whatever. I've
[18:16]read like some Catherine Heiney early morning writing. I have to read that book. I've had so many
[18:20]people recommended to me. I have to read it. I have to read it. I have to read it. I have to, okay,
[18:24]I have to write this. Yeah, write it down. It's just like, yeah, it's just such a warm, generous book.
[18:30]I think that's my absolute favorite thing about books when it depicts things, you know, it's just so
[18:35]so much empathy for characters. I love that. And also, like Lily King, I feel like she has the
[18:40]same kind of empathetic touch. So I've really enjoyed reading for us as lovers. I read recently.
[18:46]That's one of my chidola. One of my favorite exciting times. Yes, I read that too.
[18:51]Isn't that right? I'm saying writers and lovers is one of my favorite books.
[18:54]I read it many times. I interviewed her. She's great. Actually, my brother
[18:58]has a production company in his called Black Bear Pictures and they're making that into
[19:02]movie. Really? How awesome. That is really cool. Yeah. And her interview. I've got to
[19:08]listen to that. I'll be really good. Do I say her name right? Is it Nisha? Is it not? I don't know.
[19:12]I try not to say it. Yeah, I know. That's much better. Okay. So that book will just talk about
[19:17]the title. It's like, yes. Yeah, it was great. Right? It was amazing. It really made me laugh so much.
[19:22]So it was really good. Yeah. And you was just saying that you really like writers and lovers as well.
[19:26]Has that been out for a while in the States? It has. Yeah. And I just had this anthology I put
[19:30]together called mom said, I'm time to have kids and Lily King wrote an essay in the book about
[19:35]her own daughter. And it was really pretty. Yeah. Anyway, I will be picking that up then.
[19:40]I'm reading. I'm not surprised by the author's you like because I feel like your book
[19:45]falls in that same sort of category of like, you know, the way that Lily King and writes,
[19:51]it's it's literary, but it's not off-putting. It's not too heavy handed. Right? It's
[19:56]the writing is fantastic as is yours, but it's not.
[20:00]I'd, you know, get distracted by the sentences.
[20:03]They're not too like, and the end result
[20:06]in that being this great, like intimate story
[20:09]and look it into relationships and a person
[20:11]with a slight sense of humor.
[20:13]And anyway, I see a lot of parallels.
[20:14]So, oh, that's like the best compliment of us, I think.
[20:18]So, you're so welcome.
[20:21]So what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[20:23]Oh, my goodness.
[20:24]I feel like I'm too green to give advice.
[20:27]But if I were to give it, I would say, keep going.
[20:30]Just keep going.
[20:31]I think that is the thing that I found the most,
[20:33]probably the most difficult and definitely the most useful.
[20:36]I mean, I feel like you just get kicked back
[20:38]and you feel like it's not gonna work
[20:40]and that happens over and over and over again.
[20:43]And for me, everything that I can do is just decide
[20:47]that if it's what you wanna do, you just keep going.
[20:49]Regardless of what you think the outcome might be
[20:51]or whatever, if you love it, you just do it, right?
[20:54]I think that's what you can do and not worry about anything else.
[20:58]Very true.
[20:59]And how is your experience from the publishing side?
[21:02]Were you, was it what you expected?
[21:04]Like, what do you think worked really well
[21:06]when you were sort of doing the marketing,
[21:08]like getting the word out about your book?
[21:10]Like, what was that all like?
[21:12]Well, I've been really lucky
[21:13]because the people I worked with are just amazing.
[21:16]So it's been really, really amazing.
[21:19]And it was also pretty crazy
[21:20]because it all happened during the pandemic.
[21:23]And I actually got my agent just before the pandemic
[21:26]and then she was kind of sending out to publishers
[21:28]at the very beginning of the pandemic
[21:29]when it was kind of unclear
[21:31]what was gonna happen with publishing.
[21:32]And there was quite a lot of talk
[21:34]that maybe publishing was gonna have,
[21:35]you know, they won't have to halt debuts and stuff
[21:37]because they were kind of waiting
[21:38]until maybe things could open up again.
[21:40]So we're kind of didn't look very good.
[21:42]And to be honest, there was a period of time
[21:43]where we were both like a coronavirus
[21:45]probably just killed this book.
[21:46]It's probably not gonna happen.
[21:48]So it was the most amazing thing when it did.
[21:49]And it was quite weird
[21:51]because I mean, I've only met my publisher
[21:52]in person a few times
[21:54]because the whole thing's just been such a Zoom relationship.
[21:57]But it's been amazing.
[21:58]And being able to have a few events now, you know,
[22:01]in person here has just been the best thing.
[22:04]When you can talk to people,
[22:05]go to like a literary festival or something.
[22:07]There's like nothing mellow.
[22:09]I literally was on the high of my life
[22:11]when you can go over to do that.
[22:12]So it's amazing, right?
[22:14]Yeah.
[22:15]Well, that's great.
[22:16]That's so awesome.
[22:17]Great.
[22:18]Well, Emily, it was so nice to meet you.
[22:19]Thanks for surviving this job in a view.
[22:21]and interrogations.
[22:22]I'm sorry.
[22:23]This is normally the form of my podcast take.
[22:25]I don't know what's up with me this morning,
[22:26]but I really enjoyed getting to know you.
[22:29]And I'm very impressed
[22:30]and can't wait to see what's coming next for you.
[22:32]And I hope you so much for having me.
[22:34]It was such a pleasure to talk to you.
[22:36]Okay.
[22:37]Thank you.
[22:38]Thanks a lot.
[22:39]Thank you very much.
[22:39]Bye.
[22:40]Bye.
[22:41]Bye.
[22:43]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[22:45]Don't have time to read books.
[22:46]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[22:48]at Zibi Owens and at Moms.
[22:50]Don't have time to read books.
[22:51]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com
[22:54]and sign up for my virtual book club
[22:56]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[22:58]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[23:00]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[23:02]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[23:04]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.