Denise Williams, THE FASTEST WAY TO FALL
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[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Denise Williams is the author of the fastest way to fall.
[0:44]Denise wrote her first book in the second grade.
[0:46]I hate you, and it's equal, I still hate you, featured at Tough Funny Heroin,
[0:50]a Quirk Hero, Woody Bander, and a Dragon.
[0:52]Minus the Dragons, these are still the books she likes to write.
[0:55]After penning those early works, she finished second grade and eventually earned a PhD.
[0:59]After growing up a military brat around the world and across the country, Denise now lives in Iowa
[1:04]with her husband, son, and two ornery shitsoos who think they own the house.
[1:08]How to fail at flirting was her debut novel.
[1:10]And she can usually be found reading, writing, or thinking about love stories.
[1:14]Welcome, Denise.
[1:15]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss the fastest way to fall.
[1:20]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:22]Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure.
[1:24]This was great and fun and interesting, and I loved all the different parts, the texts, the emails,
[1:32]you know, how you included so many different ways of telling the story.
[1:37]I love the characters, the alternating viewpoints.
[1:39]It was really, and also the thought-provoking-ness of it, especially kicked off by your authors notes.
[1:45]Thank you so much.
[1:47]You're welcome.
[1:48]So why don't you start by telling listeners a little about what the fastest way to fall is about and what inspired you to write it.
[1:56]Sharers, that's just going to fall.
[1:58]It's about Britta who is an aspiring journalist.
[2:00]She's a fat woman, and she is tasked with reviewing a body positive fitness app.
[2:04]She doesn't particularly care about fitness, or definitely doesn't want to lose weight or change herself.
[2:08]This is really something for work, but she's excited to dive in and in addition to reviewing the app, she decides to talk about her journey using the product.
[2:16]And so as she embarks on this journey, she's surprised about how much she actually enjoys some of the different things she's doing, but she is especially enjoys getting to meet her personal trainer Wes through the app.
[2:27]He is somebody who is very supportive, but also funny, and their chemistry just sparks right away.
[2:33]And the beginning of the book is really kind of epistolary because they're chatting through the app.
[2:38]Meanwhile, Wes actually owns the app and his background is in personal training, and he really misses that.
[2:44]One of those characters is at a professional and personal crossroads where he opens the book just really unhappy and throughout the book figures out how to find and get what he needs.
[2:53]So at its core, the book that I think really about strength, being strong and finding the person who makes you feel stronger.
[3:00]Well, physically, but also emotionally, and the strength to be vulnerable, particularly the hero, I think goes on that journey.
[3:07]And actually, I was inspired to write that while I was at work. I work in higher education, and I have a PhD in education, and I was with college students and we were making them reflect.
[3:17]And we do that a lot in education, and I actually hope we hate doing it.
[3:23]We were doing it, so I was playing along. And the question we asked is, what was the time that you felt strong, and your students think about that.
[3:30]And at the time, I thought about me and the gym and being on the elliptical and just like crushing like that awesome workout and defeating the person next to me, they're in their 70s and they did not know we were racing.
[3:43]And it was just that moment when you step off the machine, it's like, I can do anything. Like, I am in charge of this right now.
[3:50]And I don't want to go this morning, and I did not feel like that at all, by the way. I was like, I finished and I was like, did I even do that? I don't know. I was on my phone the whole time. So anyway, hats off to you for your great elliptical workouts.
[4:02]You know, maybe you've needed the 70 year old next to you to like, compete.
[4:06]Yeah.
[4:07]Maybe I needed you there. Like, yeah. Anyway, okay.
[4:10]Yeah, maybe. I mean, I, I had Starbucks and drove to work with me on this morning. So.
[4:14]But I was like, you know, I thought about like, what would you like to write a love story that took like in that moment, like that moment when you felt so strong and like you could do anything.
[4:24]And you know, what if you met your person in that head space. And so that's where the inspiration for the book came from.
[4:30]Yeah. Wow. And they do say, I feel like I learned this in college, how when you are working out and all those endorphins are sort of floating about you're more likely to make connections like you're more likely to fall in love and all these things after
[4:44]you're at when you're at the gym. Do you know what I'm talking about? Did I? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay.
[4:48]Because you're in that like, yeah.
[4:50]Yeah.
[4:51]Yeah. I know. So I'm always like, Oh, because it's you. No, okay.
[4:55]Yeah, my house on.
[4:57]I know exactly.
[4:58]I get him to come work out with me.
[5:00]That's great. Well, of course, Britta goes.
[5:03]She is also doing this sort of competing side by side with her colleague at work and really wants this new promotion and was trying to get this assignment to
[5:13]alter up and end up collaborating with somebody who she had been competing against. And that's almost it's the same as what you're saying. Right.
[5:22]Using something to fuel you that maybe you were working against to begin with.
[5:29]Yeah. And I love writing their relationship.
[5:32]Claire is another aspiring journalist and ends up reviewing a competing app. So it's kind of a couple levels of competition.
[5:39]And I think so often, and these are the only two women of color kind of on this level and the writing staff.
[5:46]And they feel like they're against each other. Like, this is the person I have to do better than and they come to this realization that we don't.
[5:53]And we are competing, but we don't actually have to be competitors.
[5:56]We could support each other. And I think that's so amazing. And you come to that realization with like a colleague that you can actually support each other and still have healthy competition.
[6:06]And I actually really love writing the player character because she's pretty tough and she's tougher than the heroine. And I have a love story in mind for her.
[6:13]Oh, good. That's fun. That's awesome.
[6:16]Honestly, I mean, I did not realize that they were characters that the characters were women of color until fairly deep into the book.
[6:25]I feel like that wasn't in the initial like it came out. I feel like in like page 100 or something when I realized or maybe not that far, but not that it matters anyway at all.
[6:35]I just, I hadn't even realized. I mean, I guess I should have from the cover, I guess. But anyway, whatever, it doesn't matter.
[6:41]But did you do that on purpose or did you even think about it or did I miss something or.
[6:47]Oh, gosh, I did really, I guess most of the characters I write share identities with me like physical identity and so usually, but my hair ones are women of color.
[6:56]And for this story, race isn't really part of it. So no, it's not talked about much. I think there's a scene early on that I actually love writing where Britta is about to get on the internet and talk about being a fat woman and realizes you know,
[7:09]it's a very stock of myself before the internet does for me and so she gets down to her underwear and stands in front of a mirror, but actually point out things about herself, she loves, but she also talks about, you know, my grandma used to tell me I look like a horn and.
[7:22]And you know, this is my skin tone and the side love about it into my shoulders and the side love my boobs and you know, those sorts of things and
[7:29]like her skin tone and her race and her parents and things like that, but it's also just pointing out all of these things about herself that she really loves or has come to love.
[7:38]And when I first wrote that scene, it was much more critical like how many of us probably are if you're standing somewhere here in our underwear.
[7:45]And then I rewrote that and realized, you know, what the script doesn't have to be negative it doesn't have to be that way like we can look in the mirror and.
[7:53]find these things that we love about ourselves just for ourselves and that's kind of how that scene ended up being that way, but yeah, like her hair and her eyes skin tone and things like that are definitely part of that, but otherwise.
[8:04]Race is it a big part of the book and it's not a big part of the narrative in a in an active way.
[8:10]Like I think our experiences are always racialized and how we live in a world is always impacted by that, but it's just not really a certain story.
[8:17]So go back to the author's note and talk about your own feelings your own sort of.
[8:25]I hate to use the word struggle your own journey with weight and your own body and how that sort of has you seeing the world in a certain way.
[8:34]Yeah, you know what I put in the author so and I love the authors are pretty early on actually in the publishing process in a book.
[8:41]Was that I've been a fat woman my whole life, but that's always in part of my experience and I love stories about that people, because that women who are just like owning their bodies like they're in it they love.
[8:54]Everything about themselves are confident all the time, at least that's what they put forward. Like I think those stories are wonderful to read, but for me that's never been my journey.
[9:03]I was the kid who was self-conscious and the teenager who was you know awkward unsure and the college student who was trying to hide my body or over and not really ever really over exercise.
[9:15]Like I don't think I've reviewed into some of those kind of unhealthy ways, but emotionally and mentally like I question myself I had issues with my body I had to navigate like what it meant for me to be a fat woman in a world that didn't seem to want that people at different points in that way.
[9:33]Really, I think largely got beyond that I still like for to have my days where I'm like oh I mean nice to be a source or but you know largely that's not my and anymore.
[9:43]And so that's how I wanted to start the book and just saying that I think we can have we can have days where we are confident and we look at our stomach or our but you're like wow I am crushing it with this body today and there are days where we can realize.
[10:00]is that it's hard to navigate the world in a body
[10:03]that the world doesn't always seem to appreciate.
[10:05]And that we can have that simultaneity in our experiences.
[10:09]And I don't think that's just for that people or fat women
[10:12]is that that's what I was writing from.
[10:14]But I think that's all of us in thinking
[10:16]about how we have agency in our bodies and in the world.
[10:19]And the point that I make in others
[10:20]note that the character direction it's in the book, too,
[10:23]is that in this story and in a lot of our stories,
[10:27]you can be a fat person and also be excited about exercise.
[10:30]And it does it mean that you need to change.
[10:33]And it doesn't mean that you have to change.
[10:34]It doesn't mean that you want to change, although you can, if you do.
[10:37]But it can just be something that you appreciate
[10:39]and enjoy for this sheer act of it.
[10:42]And when I proposed this book, I was telling people about it.
[10:46]And I'm like, oh, no, you can't write a fat hair on words
[10:48]about exercise.
[10:49]And I was like, but why not?
[10:50]Like that's just another constraint
[10:52]that we're putting on bodies.
[10:53]And so I like to touch third rails with my books.
[10:56]And I love it.
[10:58]And I love it.
[10:59]And I think that's really spoken to some people
[11:01]that I can be fat.
[11:02]And I can be excited about going to the gym and exercising.
[11:05]And still be fat when I leave the gym
[11:06]and be happy with all of those sides of myself.
[11:09]And that's what I think comes through in the character,
[11:11]Brita.
[11:12]And that's what I think the hero encourages.
[11:15]Like the app that they're reviewing says on the front end,
[11:19]you do not do weight loss.
[11:21]Like that's not our thing.
[11:22]We're not going to work with you on weight loss, particularly.
[11:25]And I don't own a fitness app.
[11:27]I don't know if they would ever say that,
[11:27]but this particular app does.
[11:29]And so that's not part of the book at all.
[11:32]I think at one point, the heroine says,
[11:33]I lost two pounds.
[11:34]And the hero says, great, how do you feel?
[11:37]And then they move on.
[11:37]Like it's, that's never really discussed.
[11:40]Interesting.
[11:42]I love that.
[11:43]So in the beginning, you're nice or not in the beginning.
[11:46]I just wanted to read a couple passages
[11:48]that like really struck me.
[11:49]You had this one email from BMoney34 to fit me coach West
[11:55]one on February 13th, 646 AM.
[11:58]And they were talking about finding alternatives to chocolate
[12:02]from Valentine's Day.
[12:03]And there it goes.
[12:04]And it says alternatives to chocolate sound like cruel
[12:07]and unusual punishment.
[12:08]I'll do a lot for US, but I drop a line there.
[12:11]But I remember all things in moderation.
[12:13]It's a moot point anyway.
[12:14]No Valentine is speak of.
[12:15]Please give real chocolate to the person you're seeing
[12:17]unless there's some kind of fitness week
[12:19]in which case flowers, no roses though, they're boring.
[12:23]And of course then they're banter continues,
[12:25]but I love the idea of like no chocolate is cruel
[12:27]and unusual punishment.
[12:29]And then later I agree, right?
[12:31]I mean, oh my gosh, I'll leave without chocolate.
[12:34]You said, are you wrote rather from British perspective?
[12:37]And this is supposed to be a funny repost,
[12:40]guilty pleasure foods.
[12:41]My coach would tell me that linking food with guilt
[12:44]isn't healthy and he's right.
[12:45]Still, I know certain foods provide me with more nutrition
[12:48]and energy than others.
[12:49]And it's those others I want when I'm down.
[12:51]So listen to my coach, I'll start calling them comfort foods.
[12:54]And you go on and you say, I have many,
[12:55]but at the top of the list is pizza.
[12:57]By that, I do not mean the iconic deep dish Chicago
[13:00]is known for.
[13:01]I like my pizza, then cut into squares and heavy.
[13:03]Mounds of cheese and sausage.
[13:05]Basically, the exact opposite of the foods I've learned
[13:07]make me feel physically good.
[13:09]There's a lot to unpack there about finding comfort
[13:11]or guilt in food.
[13:12]But right now, I'm going to open the box
[13:14]that just arrived from my favorite local place.
[13:16]Stick with comfort and try to ignore the idea of guilt.
[13:18]That's your favorite comfort food.
[13:20]Is this from you?
[13:22]Are you a big pizza person, by the way?
[13:24]Are you, is this like a vice of yours or I shouldn't say vice?
[13:27]But you know, I love pizza.
[13:29]I think who doesn't?
[13:31]Besides my five year old, who is the idiot, but true.
[13:34]It is, I don't know if it's my favorite comfort food,
[13:36]but I, since she's in Chicago, I thought about,
[13:39]oh, you know, what something it speaks to the place,
[13:41]but maybe challenges a little bit of what kind of,
[13:43]I think one of the only things people sometimes know
[13:45]that Chicago is the fish pizza.
[13:46]Which is great, amazing, love it.
[13:48]But like showing kind of that little different angle
[13:51]of the culture of the city too.
[13:53]But yeah, I mean, who doesn't love pizza?
[13:56]I guess as long as you can eat cheese and the bread,
[13:58]or the crust and everything, I love it.
[14:00]I love this, or I don't love,
[14:02]but I relate to this feeling of guilt and comfort foods
[14:07]and what you are supposed to eat
[14:08]and what you are not supposed to eat.
[14:10]And I know that we're supposed to be over this
[14:13]and I'm 45 years old and I shouldn't still be like,
[14:15]in these same traps from when I was a kid.
[14:17]But I still see a piece of food
[14:20]and it's hard for me to be like,
[14:22]oh yeah, I have no, you know, I still eat it, right?
[14:25]But I still, in the back of my head,
[14:27]have this little, you know, chirping bird of like,
[14:31]you shouldn't have really done that.
[14:32]I know you did it, but whatever.
[14:33]I mean, I don't know if that ever goes away
[14:35]or if it's just my own issues, but you don't.
[14:37]I don't think it's just your own.
[14:39]Where you know we're so conditioned, right?
[14:41]Like from an early age, and it's like,
[14:43]okay, well you can have that,
[14:45]but you've got to do this with these steps
[14:46]and work off that Oreo and it's like,
[14:48]eh, you know, and there's a line in the book
[14:51]where the hero was talking to his business partners.
[14:53]Like, you know, so much of what we do in fitness
[14:55]is undoing what people learned when they were kids,
[14:57]what they were conditioned to when they were kids.
[14:59]Because so many of us were with these,
[15:01]not even always unhealthy, but just unproductive connections
[15:06]between bodies and food and exercise and size.
[15:08]And, you know, in ways that I think most of us
[15:11]just leave us, you know, as adults in our 40s,
[15:13]going like, oh, I feel bad about enjoying this piece
[15:16]okay, when it's just fake.
[15:19]Yeah, true.
[15:21]Although it's so good.
[15:23]Sometimes I think, right?
[15:24]I'm like, I think sometimes I get even more enjoyment
[15:28]from food or something.
[15:30]Like, I love, like, sweets.
[15:32]I just love them.
[15:33]I get so excited and I'm like, this is amazing.
[15:36]And I'm like, maybe other people just don't love food
[15:38]as much.
[15:39]I mean, I think that's really great.
[15:41]They should love it more.
[15:42]I am working on a book right now
[15:44]with the difference in a candy store.
[15:46]And I have never like fought the urge so hard
[15:50]to like just live inside a candy store
[15:52]and just eat truffles all right,
[15:54]as being in the middle of this book.
[15:55]One of my sort of secret fantasies at one point in my life
[15:59]is to be in a bathtub full of eminence.
[16:01]I, at some point in my life before I die,
[16:03]I'm gonna try to make that happen.
[16:05]I say, do it.
[16:06]Maybe freeze them first so that they don't melt immediately.
[16:09]Oh my gosh, that is such a good idea.
[16:13]Wow, I know I was thinking they'd get all over me.
[16:15]Freeze them first, but we need such a big freezer.
[16:19]Right, think about how many eminence you're gonna have
[16:21]to work through some of the, you've got connections though.
[16:24]Like find somebody in a room with a restaurant
[16:26]and ask if you can store a couple of rubbermaid
[16:29]tubs full of eminence.
[16:31]Oh my gosh.
[16:32]Well, this is getting really embarrassing.
[16:33]Okay, oh, maybe I'll do it at like a hotel or something.
[16:37]So I don't have to clean up my own bathroom.
[16:39]You do imagine though, the next person came in.
[16:42]I'm kidding.
[16:42]I wouldn't actually.
[16:43]Oh my gosh, like the cleaning staff,
[16:45]that would have to be an amazing tip.
[16:47]No, I didn't.
[16:48]I wouldn't actually do that.
[16:49]I'm probably never gonna do this anywhere, but anyway.
[16:51]Wait, tell me a little bit more.
[16:52]It's a good fantasy.
[16:53]It's just a fantasy.
[16:54]I'll just keep it right there.
[16:55]What is your next book about aside from the can't be stirred?
[16:59]I actually have four books out in 2022.
[17:01]So a little busy right now.
[17:02]I have three novellas throughout the spring,
[17:04]but I'll be placed in and around in airport.
[17:06]So one is an airport dog groomer.
[17:09]And her, when I call her diet for free,
[17:11]if we could fly her, she's been stupid out.
[17:13]And it turns out he's a romance author who needs a muse
[17:16]so that all of their dates are in the airport
[17:18]during his layovers.
[17:19]And that was called the love connection.
[17:21]The misconnection is two people have kind of a clandestine,
[17:25]serendipitous New Year's Eve kiss when they're stranded.
[17:28]And then several months later,
[17:29]it turns out they're academic rivals
[17:30]and they have to travel from five cities together
[17:33]to learn about these different universities.
[17:35]And then in the third one,
[17:36]the is the candy shop one.
[17:38]It's two best friends who will work in the airport.
[17:40]And they have five days to solve the mystery
[17:42]of a missing love letter found in the candy shop
[17:45]before one of them leaves the country.
[17:46]And so that's a big fun to write and light
[17:49]and like lots of banter and just a little bit of steam.
[17:53]And then my third novel will be out in September.
[17:56]And it's called, Do You Take This Man?
[17:58]It centers RJ who is the heroine's best friend
[18:01]in the facilitator fall.
[18:03]And RJ, it's kind of a badass divorce attorney
[18:06]who doesn't actually really believe in romantic love.
[18:09]and she gets ordained to perform
[18:11]Brita and Western sweating,
[18:12]who's spoiler, they get together.
[18:14]And she's in the park, runs into a couple.
[18:16]She gets kind of swept away in the moment
[18:18]and the couple just got engaged
[18:19]and they wanna get married right away.
[18:21]She says, hey, I'm more dating, I can perform weddings
[18:23]and then they do it right there in the park
[18:25]kind of on the fly and it goes viral.
[18:27]And when it goes viral,
[18:28]she finds herself in the position of being
[18:30]a top-as-nails divorce attorney
[18:32]who doesn't believe in love
[18:33]who's also a hotly sought after wedding officiant.
[18:37]Very shocked to see that she actually loves to do it.
[18:39]I'm actually ordained to perform weddings.
[18:41]I do that for friends kind of on the side
[18:43]and for fun as well.
[18:44]And she loves it, even though it completes
[18:47]with her profession,
[18:48]the only challenge that she has to look at this wedding planner
[18:51]who just arrived from LA
[18:52]where he used to event plans for the NFL
[18:55]for a variety of reasons.
[18:56]He has dropped his nice type persona
[18:58]and has up kind of a dude-bro facade.
[19:01]And he is now planning weddings
[19:03]and they hate each other.
[19:04]In their first meeting, they run into each other.
[19:07]She calls him every expert in the book
[19:09]and he tells her she should smile more.
[19:11]I promise you were dating himself,
[19:12]but it means the benefits,
[19:14]enemies, the lovers' tail
[19:16]and it's just like a lot of fun
[19:18]and that I think that the dedication
[19:20]will be the ones who think they're hard to love
[19:23]and that idea of those brushes we paint ourselves with
[19:26]in terms of who we think we are in a relationship
[19:28]and how the right person can kind of challenge that.
[19:31]Today's, when are you writing all of this stuff?
[19:34]Oh my gosh, oh.
[19:35]You have assigned you a full-time job.
[19:37]You're like marketing your books.
[19:39]You win on earth.
[19:40]What are you doing it?
[19:43]Well lunch breaks are really helpful
[19:45]and I have a little table in my office
[19:48]where I can kind of leave my desk
[19:49]and go right for an hour at my lunch break
[19:50]and then I am very lucky to have a five-year-old
[19:53]who still goes to bed pretty early
[19:54]and so once he goes down
[19:56]then kind of just the rest of the night is writing
[19:58]but you know, it's that.
[20:00]somebody asked me other day like how do you balance it and I was like I don't balance anything.
[20:03]I think it's just you know then you know that you're doing a million things
[20:07]incredibly and it's like you're juggling and it's just always figuring out which balls are
[20:11]plastic and which are glass. Sometimes your book is glass and sometimes your kid is not.
[20:18]It's not like you know what's most critical of this moment and then juggling.
[20:23]Yes that is really cool. I'd love that analogy. Thank you. I'm going to try to
[20:27]use that today to get me to do plastic. Which ones are plastic? Amazing. And some evidence.
[20:34]And some evidence. It helps everything. I mean chocolate helps everything.
[20:38]By the way what are you reading now? Like what do you like to read? What are you reading?
[20:42]Oh my gosh I'm reading so many things right now. I have a ton of books that are going to be
[20:45]out soon. West Side Love Story by Crystal O'Varettis is on the top of my list right now. And then I just
[20:53]finished rereading Kennedy Ryan's All the Kings men do at which is contemporary romance that
[21:00]oh my gosh it's epic. It's like a 20 or 30 year story and it touches on indigenous rights,
[21:05]land rights, missing murder, indigenous women, climate change, politics. And it's just this
[21:11]incredible like epic love story too. And so I just reread that maybe for the third time
[21:16]because it's just the story that always draws you in. And then I love lists and fancy ships.
[21:22]They're grandeur. We've actually come up today and it's just touching and glorious and I
[21:27]ugly cried. And that was a really beautiful story romance but also kind of a finding yourself.
[21:33]Do we still use the term women's fiction? I don't know. But this is a story about this woman
[21:37]kind of finding her own journey and agreed to. Wow thank you this all sound good. Okay what advice
[21:43]would you have for aspiring authors? The best advice I have is I guess there's a couple pieces but
[21:50]the main thing is that just reminding yourself that the only thing a first draft has to do is
[21:54]exist. No matter if this is your first book or your 50th you will hit that moment where you feel
[21:59]like that the book isn't perfect yet. And especially if you just came off a finished book which you
[22:04]tend to do before you have new draft but reminding yourself that the only thing a first draft has
[22:08]to do is exist. You can always edit what's on the page. You can change things. You can shape it. You
[22:13]can mold it. You can delete things later. But just keeping you know keep writing so you can get
[22:18]that draft on the page because so many people stop because it's not perfect. And personally
[22:23]no book I have ever submitted to my editor has been perfect that's why we have editors. And to do
[22:28]that. And the other thing I think is in publishing is to remind yourself in gender Luca who wrote
[22:33]the Renaissance Fair romance series the well-matched well met series said this to me and it's always
[22:39]stuck with me is that 99% of the time it is not your turn. You know I'm publishing for most of
[22:44]the year your book is not in center. And it can feel like you've been forgotten. It can feel
[22:50]like what you're doing doesn't matter. And then for that 1% of time when you are in the spotlight
[22:54]it's amazing. The sun is shining on you like M&Ms and skittles are just being pressed in your
[23:00]general direction. It's gorgeous. But then it's not your turn again. And so to just kind of
[23:05]hold on to that sunshine moment and know that publishing is cyclical and your turn will come around
[23:11]again. But that can be I think really hard especially for new authors when you're in the spotlight
[23:16]and then you're not. And then it's figuring out what does that mean for me as a writer.
[23:20]Interesting. I started a publishing company recently called Zippy Books and I'm trying
[23:24]which is amazing. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. But I'm trying to find ways to solve
[23:30]all those problems. Like why should you only that you did the writer should not be in the spotlight
[23:35]1%? The writer should be in the spotlight. The author should be in the spotlight like 100% of the
[23:40]time. Like how do you make that transition and all of that. So anyway all that's true.
[23:46]And you know it's also finding like where do you want to be in the spotlight? Like you know
[23:51]it where do I find joy and acknowledgement as an author? And I think what I thought I would find
[23:56]the most excitement about was you know like on the list and in the media outlets and
[24:00]the interview which you know happens a lot more right as your book comes out. But then along the way
[24:05]for me actually the most meaningful thing with my first book which was about a
[24:08]domestic violence survivor and in my second book now which is Frida and Wes has been hearing from
[24:14]readers who DM me and just say I saw myself in this book and here's what it meant to me.
[24:20]And I saved every single one of those messages and that happens all the time because new people
[24:25]are always finding your book. And so I also think as an author it's looking at you know the
[24:30]sunshine of media attention is amazing. So I'm a Leo like we're here for the win. But you know like
[24:37]one of those other pieces that for you are validating and for me it's those messages
[24:42]hands down like it's the most incredible thing about having to look out and putting books out.
[24:46]But also knowing that that is a kind of being centered and recognized and acknowledged validated
[24:51]whenever as well. Excellent. Love it. Okay. Well, when is your birthday by the way? July 26th.
[24:59]Yeah, okay. And August 22nd. Anyway, anyway. Okay. All right. Well Denise thank you so much.
[25:07]This was really fun and I'm excited for all of the things you have coming next year.
[25:12]Like hold on to your hat. That's going to be a wild ride. I mean, now busy but exciting and
[25:18]it's really inspiring how you do so much and you know I feel like fiction is such a gift that
[25:24]I do not have. So I don't know. I'm so impressed. So keep at it. It's awesome.
[25:28]Well, thank you so much and thank you for having me on and I am in awe of your like meticulously
[25:34]playing background. I do this for Zoom. I do this day background. This is also where my kids
[25:43]watch TV at night and it's like a zoo with like you know milk and you know so. But right now.
[25:49]Oh, we're all good. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Have a great day. Thank you for
[25:54]coming. Thank you. You're so nice. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[26:00]Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[26:05]Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[26:10]lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[26:15]for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[26:20]intro and outro music.