Stacey Abrams, STACEY'S EXTRAORDINARY WORDS
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:36]Hi! Hi! Hello!
[0:38]Enjoy the show!
[0:40]Stacey Abrams is the author of the children's picture book Stacey's Extraordinary Words.
[0:45]She is the three-time New York Times best-selling author of While Justice Sleeps.
[0:50]Our time is now and lead from the outside.
[0:52]She's an entrepreneur and most perhaps well known as a political leader.
[0:56]A tax attorney by training, she served 11 years in the Georgia House of Representatives,
[1:01]7 as Minority Leader, and became the 2008 Democratic nominee for Governor of Georgia.
[1:06]At the time, she won more votes than any Democrat in the state's history.
[1:11]She's launched multiple organizations devoted to voting rights, training, and hiring young people
[1:15]of color, and tackling social issues at the state, national, and international levels.
[1:20]She's the founder of Fair Fight, Fair Count, and the Southern Economic Advancement Project.
[1:25]Stacey is a lifetime member of the Council on Foreign Relations,
[1:28]and sits on the boards of Climate Power 2020, the Women's National Basketball Players Association,
[1:33]the Center for American Progress, and the Marguerite Casey Foundation.
[1:37]She is running for Governor of Georgia.
[1:39]She has received degrees from Spelman College, the LBJ School of Public Affairs,
[1:44]the University of Texas, and Yale Law School.
[1:47]And as you will soon hear, she is a big fan of ice cream.
[1:51]Welcome, Stacey. Thank you so much for coming on Momstone. Have time to read books,
[1:55]to discuss Stacey's extraordinary words.
[1:58]Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
[2:00]So I read this to my kids who did not know what a spelling bee was until this book,
[2:05]because I guess, you know, we don't even do them anymore, really. And they loved it.
[2:09]They asked me to read it again. I was really excited. They're really excited. I've been
[2:13]reviewing you. So anyway, when it hits home with kids, you know, you have something good. So,
[2:17]from them. What are their names? I try not to say their names in public, but they're
[2:20]eight and seven. Well, please, Stille, and I said, thank you. I will. I have older kids,
[2:24]but they're past the picture books age. Although, are we ever really past the picture books age?
[2:28]I'm still not. Yeah, I'm stuck there too. I love picture books.
[2:32]Why did you write this book? Why now? I love children's books. My mom was a
[2:38]librarian when I was growing up, and she had a subspecialty in children's literature,
[2:43]plus I literally would take naps in the stacks around the books. So I've always loved books.
[2:48]I loved reading and I love words. And when the opportunity came to write a children's book,
[2:54]a picture book, I wanted to do it because I think it's tough. I think it's a hard thing to do
[3:00]to take these concepts and to not only reduce the words, but not the impact, but also do it
[3:08]in a way that is exciting and compelling, and holds the attention of a four or five or six year
[3:14]old, having nieces and nephews. I know how difficult that is. And so it would be the pinnacle
[3:18]of my achievement as a writer to get them to pay attention to something I had to say.
[3:23]That is the pinnacle of like any grown-up achievement when it comes to kids.
[3:27]Just pay attention for a little bit. That's all we need. That's it. That's it.
[3:32]In the book, which is based on you, it's about a young girl who has this amazing ability to
[3:39]spell and is great with words and also deals with people who don't necessarily accept her
[3:45]for what she's like, which I found to be a really compelling part of the story. Talk a little bit
[3:50]about your experience with that emotion as a child and how you think that's impact to do going
[3:54]forward. In the author's note, I talk about the fact that I was skipped a grade, which sounds great
[4:00]when you're an adult. But when it happens, it actually occurred in the middle of the beginning
[4:06]of my school term. So I was the first grader for a little bit of time. And then second, suddenly I'm
[4:11]taken out of my classroom, put in a new space. I have to learn new people. And I was a quiet kid.
[4:17]I was a little awkward. And it was overwhelming to me. And luckily my second great teacher saw that.
[4:24]And she realized that I loved reading. She allowed me to read all of the books in the class
[4:30]instead of having to try to acclimate too quickly. And that was one of the pieces. But the other
[4:35]was that as a quiet kid, being invited to be in front of a whole audience was overwhelming. But to
[4:42]get to spell that part, I understood. And so it was this introduction to public speaking and to
[4:49]competition. But in a way that was very comfortable as a kid who liked reading. But I think the
[4:55]biggest piece for me as I was writing it was also just remembering how hard second grade was, how
[5:01]you're starting to understand clicks and community. But also the importance of friendship and
[5:08]standing up for one another. And this book was an opportunity for me to explore all of those things
[5:13]using the spelling B as the starting point. My kids are in first and second grade. And when I read
[5:19]them the part about you're skipping a grade, they looked at each other in horror. And they're like,
[5:23]we'll be in the same class. And I was like, you guys are not skipping a grade. It's all good.
[5:29]Wouldn't it be nice when I was listening to what you said? It's so nice that you were in an
[5:34]environment where your awkwardness was addressed. Your shyness could be sort of mitigated by the
[5:40]presence of books. And wouldn't it be nice if we had that option at like crowded parties or
[5:44]something? How was it? Exactly. There was like a little sign that said introverts to the library.
[5:51]Yes. And we could all sit in the room together and ignore each other. It would be great.
[5:56]You could read a little bit. Chat about the book. I guess that's book club. I guess book club in a
[6:00]nutshell. impromptu book clubs. impromptu book clubs, exactly. But of course, so this book is,
[6:06]you know, amazing. And I'm bet it was so much fun to write. Did you have so much fun writing it?
[6:10]I did. It is a very, it's a great departure from other books I've had to write. Although the
[6:16]plotting was more complicated than I thought it would be. Because in my mind, I knew I wanted
[6:22]to write the story and I knew the themes I wanted to include, but reducing it down to that number
[6:28]of words, but giving all of the pieces and then picking the words to use. It was both, it was a
[6:34]little, you know, terrifying, but it was also exhilarating. I actually have a children's book coming out
[6:39]with fingernails in the spring in April. And I tried doing it as well. And my editor was like,
[6:45]okay, this is written for like far older kids. And I was like, no, it's not. My kids totally got this,
[6:50]but anyway, yes, the challenge of reducing, that's always the hardest part. I'm sure with your
[6:54]other books too. I feel like editing some people love it, but I think it's hard. It always makes it
[6:59]better. But I think it's hard to slash and burn those words, you know, especially when you have so
[7:05]few to start with and you fall in love with every word or every line that you come up with.
[7:10]And then you realize you're the only one who loves it, let it go.
[7:14]Wow. So obviously, in addition to writing and writing this and then you have level up coming out
[7:20]and I'll just to sleep and all the things that you've done, you're also, you also have your whole
[7:25]political career. Or I should say you have your political career and then all of this. When do you
[7:30]make time? When do you find time to write? When's your favorite time to write? How do you integrate
[7:35]your writerly life with your political life? I love writing and once it became a vocation as opposed
[7:42]to a hobby, I treat it the same way that I treat anything else I do. I understand my deadlines,
[7:50]I know my writing patterns. I don't have certain times of day I carve out. I write to the project.
[7:56]So when this was due, I knew what I wanted to do. I had some deadlines I had to hit because working
[8:02]with the illustrator, Kit Thomas meant that I had to have the book written in time to be able to
[8:08]illustrate it. But when I'm writing, for example, I've got a book due next year and I've got a
[8:14]schedule laid out. So I set my schedule. I give myself a certain number of days when I'm supposed
[8:20]to write and I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to blow it off. So I built in my writer's block.
[8:25]But I really try to practice plotting it out knowing what I'm trying to do. I give myself
[8:31]benchmarks along the way. But I treat it like any other obligation. It's both something I love
[8:38]to do, but it is something I am obliged to do and I need to treat it with the importance that it holds.
[8:44]I actually just interviewed someone who said she actually puts the scenes that she's going to
[8:50]write into her calendar. Have you heard of that for? That's like one level up.
[8:55]That's impressive. I do a storyboard. So I will list out each chapter and I'll know which scenes
[9:01]are in each chapter. But I write chapter by I do a chapter a day because I know how long it
[9:05]takes me to write a certain number of words. And so my job is to get on the day I have that chapter
[9:10]due. I've got to get it done. It can take me half the time. It can take me twice the time.
[9:15]But that's the day I have to finish the chapter. Wow. And do you worry at all being a public figure
[9:22]like how your words are going to be received? Do you ever like get into your head about that?
[9:26]Alex. Oh, absolutely. But that happens when I have to seek out loud on the campaign trail,
[9:34]they're going to be commercials that take my impromptu,
[9:37]synchronous language out of context. And that's when I haven't had a chance to think about it so
[9:43]much. When you know you've had time to practice and it can still go horribly wrong,
[9:47]that is always a bit of a nail bider. But I trust the words and I trust editors.
[9:53]Well, so running for office and leading and all of that and putting your
[10:00]words on the page. All of these are really brave acts. How do you drum up the courage on like
[10:05]really bad days? Like, do you have bad days? You just don't want to get out of bed or maybe it's
[10:09]just, you know, just days where you're like, nothing's ever going to get done. Like, how do you
[10:13]how do you regroup and and go back to this position you've created for yourself if this serve
[10:18]trailblazer? Well, I appreciate the characterization and not to to, you know, quote myself,
[10:25]but part of the story comes from when I did this spelling bee and this idea that
[10:31]instead of thinking about each day as these sort of cinematic moments where something is going to
[10:36]succeed or fail, where the world will crash down around me or I will rise into the, you know,
[10:42]stratosphere. It's every day, like every day you're supposed to do, every day you're supposed to be.
[10:48]And that means some days you're going to be great at it and some days you are going to be terrible at
[10:54]but there's always another day and that next day is a day to either fix what you broke or
[11:01]built something new and you got to give, you have to give yourself permission to have
[11:04]some days where you don't do anything accomplish anything or think anything important.
[11:09]I, I look for those days. I treasure those days. I hoard those days when they come,
[11:15]but that's how you create, I think the resilience to get through the days that are harder,
[11:19]the days when someone says something inappropriate about you or miss characterizes who you are
[11:25]or the day when you did it to yourself and you really should have slept in.
[11:31]Sleep as sleep is always nice. So what is your coping? Like what's your go-to
[11:36]vice on a day where you're trying to make yourself feel better? I go to chocolate FYI. Where do you go?
[11:41]Chocolate is important. I, I watch in an ordinary amount of television. Television makes me extraordinarily
[11:47]happy. I let myself read anything I want and I believe in ice cream. Favorite flavor?
[11:54]Hug and Doss's white chocolate raspberry truffle. It is so delicious. It is amazing.
[12:00]I've literally never had that. It is awesome. I'm into the McConnell's caramel brownie swirl stuff.
[12:08]Yeah. That sounds delicious. Yeah. I mean, this is so bad. Now I'm like,
[12:13]I think it would have to be so much. I'm now like talking to you about ice cream. This is
[12:16]terrible. Anyway, this is I think is a sign of a good conversation. Oh, good. Absolutely.
[12:23]I would still, however, take a chocolate chip cookie over ice cream any day. I have to say
[12:27]I love chocolate chip cookies, but it has to be the right consistency. It's gotta have that
[12:32]right crisp and the right shoe to it. True. So can't be the perfect chocolate chip cookie. Yes,
[12:38]could could surpass ice cream, but yes, but maybe ice cream is more reliable.
[12:42]Exactly. Good to have these in our back pocket for exactly the inevitable.
[12:50]So you've also been working on changing all of voting rights and this whole fair fight and
[12:56]all of this stuff. How do you drum up the energy for all of this? When are you doing that? Like,
[13:01]how do you how do you have the vision and then when do you implement and do you have this like
[13:06]amazing team or like how are you getting everything done? When I didn't become governor
[13:11]part of my responsibility was to think about what I would have done had I got in the job
[13:16]and what things did I not like about the process, what things were broken in the system.
[13:21]So I gave myself 10 days off and then I started creating these organizations,
[13:26]but I think the most important part of the question is I have this extraordinary team. I've been
[13:30]privileged that I can think of things and I'm good at setting up structures, but I am exceptional at
[13:35]picking people who are smarter than me to do it. And so with each of these organizations or with
[13:40]the businesses, I start I have partners and I work with people and I do my best to be a good
[13:47]partner to them to invest and to be a thought partner, but also to get out of the way because if
[13:52]you do your job well and you pick people who are better at it than you are, you become eventually
[13:58]superfluous and that is my mission to be completely unnecessary in the things I create.
[14:03]Yes, I will be the invisible governor. You guys just get it.
[14:09]That is not quite that invisible. But to be so good at leading that other people get to shine and
[14:15]they get to think and they get the credit and I get the job. Yeah.
[14:21]I was literally just interviewing someone before we got on the Zoom and I was like,
[14:26]I just need somebody who's better than me at everything. Like, I need you to be a better version
[14:30]of me. That's really all I need. There are those who get afraid of that. I embrace it. Push me
[14:36]towards mediocrity. Make me work for it. I love that. So what is your next project you're working on?
[14:44]You said you were working on another book. The sequel to Wall Justice Sleeps. I'm working on that
[14:48]one. So that's due next year. I've also got this campaign thing. I'm going to be working on it.
[14:53]I'd like to get this job face. Yes, I understand you're running for re-election governor or
[14:58]election governor. So yeah, so I've been working on that book and I've got a couple of other
[15:03]projects and the works. And then in the back of my mind, I have two, I have a YA book that I
[15:09]started working on years ago and a children's book for slightly older kids that I'd love to get
[15:14]back to eventually. Those are my writing projects. Amazing. We'll say you won't be too bored.
[15:20]Not too much time for TV. What words do you struggle to spell? Like, I feel like success is always
[15:26]I'm always like stumbling. Does it have two Cs? I don't know. That's one of my pitfall words.
[15:32]What are, do you have any words aside from the ones here? Any now or are you a spell check?
[15:39]I'm pretty good with words. I recently did a conversation with the young woman who won the spelling
[15:45]bee and misspelled a word. It was a Gaelic word. So now I'm reading Gaelic just because I
[15:53]I knew the word when she actually spelled it. Like, I've seen this word spelled so many times.
[15:57]I've just never heard it pronounced. So it's usually a word that has a phonetic spelling
[16:02]that is different than the way we hear it. But my issue is that I'm always going to go and find
[16:08]the origin of the word. And if I misspell it, I'm not going to misspell it once. I will always
[16:13]know how to spell chocolate because I did not know it had a second O in it. I've never misspelled
[16:18]chocolate again in my life. And that is that is probably my nemesis misspelling words. I will go
[16:24]and find the way to spell it. And I will make it part of who I am for all eternity. Well, I mean,
[16:29]watch out words. There you go. Nothing misspelled again. Don't get too close. Oh my goodness.
[16:37]That's amazing. Learning like reading Gaelic too. I mean, preparation is the key to everything,
[16:43]and mild obsession. Just my little bit, not quite not full blown. Just a little bit. Wow.
[16:49]That's really, that's amazing. And how was it working with your illustrator?
[16:56]Kid is amazing. The way they conceptualized the words that I had on paper and brought them to life.
[17:03]And there were a couple of moments where when I saw the images, I went back and said, well, this was
[17:08]what I was thinking. And just this instant response, there was never a debate about it. It was
[17:15]things I didn't even know I wanted, but the minute I saw it, there's an image you'll see in the
[17:19]book of the when the cat is batting down on the monopea. That's just such a lovely way to conceptualize
[17:26]it wasn't in my head. But now that it's there, of course, I've always thought about it that way.
[17:31]And what you're obviously a natural storyteller, do you ingest, do you inhale stories as well
[17:37]from other people? And if so, what do you love to read? Oh, I read voraciously.
[17:42]So I have a book club with my siblings. So we all, there's six of us. So we circulate through books.
[17:48]I usually am reading two or three books at a time. And I read almost everything. I do not
[17:55]read horror because I remember what I read and I don't want to be afraid of myself.
[18:00]And so horror is not quite my wheelhouse, but science fiction, traditional literature,
[18:07]you name it. I'll read it. I love nonfiction as well. And so I'll read just about anything,
[18:12]as long as it's a good story. Excellent. Well, do you have anything that's been amazing lately,
[18:18]like you couldn't put down? So I just finished reading The Need by Helen Phillips, which you
[18:24]you may like. I don't know if you've read it, but it's the sort of sci-fi, not quite,
[18:30]but it's about a scientist and her two kids and sort of the travails of motherhood. There's
[18:35]a little bit of horror in it, but not the sort of overarching theme, which is a lot of fun.
[18:40]And my sister, one of my sisters gave me a book, My Best Friends Exorcism, which was one of the
[18:45]most fun books I've read in a while. Okay. Adding it to my mentalist here. Excellent.
[18:53]Why do you want to be governor? Are you scared of it at all? It's a big, I mean, are you at all
[18:57]scared or does it intimidate you? Like, no, being governor is about leveraging the power
[19:04]of our collective investment in each other to make sure that everyone gets what they need.
[19:09]You can't fix people's lives. That that's not the role of government and should never be the
[19:14]ambition, but you can create access. I want to be governor because too many people are denied access
[19:21]because of their zip code, their background, because of their access to power. And I grew up in a
[19:27]family that didn't have access that had to claw at every opportunity. And most often didn't get
[19:36]what they'd earned. And so my calling is to do what I can to make sure people have health care,
[19:42]just the basics. And if you do the basics right, the world becomes such a different place.
[19:48]And I'm a beneficiary of that that my parents, despite not growing up in places that
[19:53]treated them with the respect they would do, they were able to carve out access,
[19:57]but not everyone grows up with Robert and Carolyn Abrams.
[20:00]and my calling is to do what I can for others so that doesn't matter who your parents are
[20:04]or who they're not, that we all get the same start. We can't guarantee a finish, but we can
[20:09]guarantee that everyone gets the chance to try. I'm sorry for making you give the whole speech
[20:15]again. No, it's okay. No, I wanted a personal recitation of it. So that would be a thank you.
[20:21]Advice advice. What advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[20:27]Number one, start. So often, and you've probably experienced this, we get caught up in what we
[20:34]want the story to be. We forget to start writing it. It is never going to be what you thought it
[20:39]was in your head until you get it on paper. And once it's on paper, you realize it may be better
[20:44]than what you were conceptualizing. Two, writers block is real, except it, but don't let it defeat you.
[20:52]And three, know that it has to come to an end, but it should be the end you want, not the end that
[20:58]you just stumble into because you're tired of writing. Yeah, I have somewhere to be,
[21:03]time for more TV. Exactly. Exactly. I'm going to end it right here. This is good enough.
[21:09]That's some problem with books. You can just keep making them better and better and better.
[21:13]Problem in it. Blessing and a curse. Exactly. Well, Stacy, thank you so much for chatting.
[21:19]I will think of you. I'm going to go try this ice cream now, and I will think of you as I enjoy,
[21:23]and it was lovely to meet you and best of luck. Zippy, this has been a delight, and I look
[21:28]forward to finding the perfect chocolate chip cookie that can supplant my ice cream addiction.
[21:33]Good. Send me the link if you find it. Absolutely. I'm on it. Okay. All right. Bye. Take care.
[21:40]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[21:44]forget to follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[21:49]Also, sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[21:54]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact, texture sound
[21:58]for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[22:03]intro and out trim music.