Bryan Collier, WE SHALL OVERCOME
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[2:04]An honor of Martin Luther cake, Jude your day.
[2:07]I am releasing this episode with Brian Collier.
[2:11]He is a Caldecot honor winner and his one, a Bazillion Awards.
[2:15]His latest book is called We Shall Overcome.
[2:18]And includes powerful, powerful words to which he illustrated just absolutely breathtaking, beautiful drawings, which you'll hear features his daughter.
[2:28]And here's a little bit more about Brian.
[2:31]Brian has loves to paint and has successfully channeled his creative energy and love of art into an illustrious career as a children's book illustrator and writer.
[2:40]Brian will be on painting at the age of 15 and eventually landed a scholarship to attend Pratt Institute of New York.
[2:46]He has won four Caldecot honors for Rosa by Nikki Giovanni, Martin's Big Words by Dorian Rappaport,
[2:53]Trombone Shorty by Troy Andrews and Dave the Potter by Lebond Carrot Kill.
[2:58]His first book, Uptown won the credit Scott King award and at the Ezra Jack Keats award.
[3:03]He has won five more credit Scott King awards and three credit Scott King honors.
[3:09]He also illustrated all because you matter by Tammy Charles.
[3:13]And I have interviewed Tammy on this podcast so you might want to go back and listen to that.
[3:17]Anyway, I thought this was a beautiful tribute and belonged to Martin Luther King Day.
[3:22]Enjoy.
[3:23]Welcome, Brian.
[3:24]Thanks so much for coming.
[3:25]I'm almost done.
[3:26]I have time to read books to discuss.
[3:27]We shall overcome.
[3:28]It's a pleasure to be here.
[3:30]Thank you for having me.
[3:31]This book is unbelievably beautiful.
[3:34]The illustrations are just breathtaking.
[3:37]Tell us how did you decide to do this book?
[3:41]Tell me the whole backstory of it.
[3:43]I'm just so unbelievably impressed with this as it's all your work really.
[3:47]Well, thank you.
[3:48]I was super, super excited to try to tell this well familiar anthem and song in a way that sort of creates a bridge
[3:58]from its inception and the way it was used through history to civil rights movement.
[4:04]And as it pertains to today, so I start with the idea of taking two approaches,
[4:10]paint images in black and white and that will indicate the past.
[4:14]And then in full color, I would think a little kid walking through history
[4:19]like a timeline as if it's some sort of time machine that's making all these connections.
[4:25]So the imagery that you see is in both color and black and white.
[4:29]It's beautiful.
[4:30]And I know I was reading about your, you know, your, what's the word, predilection for collage.
[4:37]And, you know, it does seem like so many of these images look as though they had been sort of cut out and pasted on in a collage-like illustration.
[4:45]Is that is that the way you went about this?
[4:47]Like what was the, how did you do this visually?
[4:50]Well, I just, I paint in the watercolor.
[4:53]So when you see that the cut out, everything is painted, you know, basically.
[4:59]And I paint in watercolor, I paint on heavy watercolor paper, like 300 pound watercolor paper.
[5:04]It's not really 300 pounds, but it's heavy.
[5:06]I know.
[5:07]And I use it and I mold it and I do all kinds of things because I have an affinity for different textures of paper.
[5:16]And I try to use a combination of all those things to sort of build the imagery up.
[5:22]And there's no, I don't have a formula at all.
[5:25]I just go by intuition and sort of try to tell the story what I want to sort of fall to the background.
[5:31]What I wanted to zoom forward with a visual eye to see because all of that is important in the storytelling.
[5:38]And the emphasis and my intentions when I'm, when I'm creating.
[5:43]So all those things sort of come in the play when creating and the imagery itself is our major landmarks and, and historical places and history as a civil rights movement.
[5:56]Move through it and then as it pertains to today as well.
[5:59]Well, absolutely gorgeous.
[6:01]And by the way, I had Tammy Charles on my podcast for all because you matter.
[6:05]And now I see now I get to talk to the first.
[6:08]You made her books.
[6:09]Beautiful too.
[6:10]So that's amazing.
[6:11]Oh, yeah.
[6:12]Tammy, it's so awesome.
[6:14]Yeah.
[6:15]Yeah, she really is.
[6:16]You have such a gift.
[6:18]You have such an eye and such a talent.
[6:20]When did you realize this was your calling?
[6:24]I think I was at age 15 actually, I started making art at 15 and I was, I was totally in.
[6:30]I was just hooked.
[6:32]And even though I played sports, I was in the football and basketball played all throughout high school, but it was nothing like making art.
[6:40]And I knew that's what I wanted to do.
[6:43]I didn't have a plan B all I had was one plan is to be an artist and create and find my way.
[6:49]And I didn't know what that would look like.
[6:51]I just knew that was it.
[6:53]Wow.
[6:54]What position did you play in football?
[6:56]My son plays football now.
[6:58]Oh, I was a pullback on the offense and on defense, I was a defensive then.
[7:05]Nice.
[7:06]He's playing center.
[7:07]He's playing center right now, but he hates playing center.
[7:10]Oh, yeah.
[7:12]Anyway, but we'll see what happens.
[7:14]He'd like to be running back, but I don't know.
[7:16]Maybe he's not fast enough.
[7:17]We'll see.
[7:18]Anyway.
[7:19]I can get back there.
[7:20]Yeah.
[7:21]So you discovered this talent.
[7:24]Then I know you had this long career working in Harlem in a nonprofit capacity and really making a difference there.
[7:31]Tell me about that.
[7:32]Well, it was during my started during my senior year at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn.
[7:37]And I was told to go up to Harlem and check out this art program that had just started.
[7:44]And then a lot of when I went up there, I met the kids.
[7:48]And we were situated in the Harlem Hospital, but it's for kids for the community as well.
[7:53]And I just did in the hospital.
[7:56]So what I did was I knew as soon as I walked in how a lot of answers as an artist for me were there.
[8:04]You know, I have an affinity for making art.
[8:06]I love young people and I was raised by my grandmother primarily.
[8:10]And so I have a for older folks as well.
[8:13]So I was reaching those sort of ideas about why I was an artist and and what it did all for.
[8:20]You know, and what it did all about.
[8:22]So a lot of watching those kids create.
[8:24]And then I was creating myself.
[8:26]A lot of answers for and affirmations were awarded in those moments.
[8:32]Wow.
[8:33]And I did it for 12 years.
[8:34]Yeah.
[8:35]And you're still involved.
[8:36]Right.
[8:37]So the program I think is no longer in existence, but I was for a lot of years after I left as a consultant to the program.
[8:46]Got it.
[8:47]Wait.
[8:48]So Brian, tell me about the cover for we shall overcome.
[8:50]And tell me about how in the letters, it's hard to describe this.
[8:53]This is a podcast, but I'm going to give it a shot.
[8:55]So there's this beautiful picture, partially black and white, partially with this new beautiful little girl with yellow dress holding a flower with a peace sign on it, a little leaf.
[9:04]And then big bold orange letters, it says, we shall overcome.
[9:07]But even the letters look a bit, you can feel them.
[9:10]They're like raised and they're like, I don't even know how to.
[9:14]Dead dead.
[9:15]Yeah.
[9:16]Really touching.
[9:17]Yeah.
[9:18]So tell me about this.
[9:19]I'm assuming you designed the cover as well.
[9:21]Well, I was in on it.
[9:23]There's an art designer at the publisher that pulls it all together.
[9:26]But in my artistic contribution to it was the black and white imagery in the background is the painting of the 16.
[9:33]Street Baptist Church in Birmingham.
[9:35]And there's a statue of Dr. King in the park across the street.
[9:39]Yeah.
[9:40]Signally across the street from that sanctuary.
[9:43]And that's a key location because in the door to civil rights movement.
[9:47]That is where the children went to the forefront of the movement as a strategy.
[9:54]And it was a dark day there when four little girls...
[10:00]when the birth church was bombed and the full of the girls killed that day and that sanctuary.
[10:05]So that was a key imagery as we talked about we still overcome. And the little girl,
[10:11]that's my daughter, her name is Haley up my youngest daughter who posed for the book,
[10:15]be standing in a yellow dress with a peace sign. But when you open the book and the first
[10:20]images of her sitting on her bed getting ready for school, there's a peace sign on her bed spread.
[10:26]So she starts in peace and she ends in peace in this book and that's significant as well
[10:32]as her journey. Because she's the connection, she's the bridge from yesterday to today.
[10:38]Oh wow. And when you read the book, you'll see what she does as she walks through the book
[10:44]through history and sees all the black and white imagery of the past, but she brings to the future.
[10:52]She represents the future. That is beautiful. I didn't even notice the bed spread.
[10:56]That's how observant I am. Well, oh well.
[10:59]Well picked the books make you slow down and pay attention to the details. That's the glory
[11:03]and the wonder of picked the book. That's so true. I think my kids are probably better at this than I am.
[11:09]So does your daughter like thrilled? Is she thrilled to have been featured or was that
[11:13]did that cause dissension in the ranks? She's been in several books as my other daughters have too.
[11:20]I don't think they do it. It's so familiar to them that it's just another thing.
[11:26]But she gets awakened and when her classmates and her library at the school
[11:31]bring it to her attention, that this is a big deal. For to her, it's just like this is what dad does.
[11:37]I mean, they are my studio every day and they watch me make the art. They pose with the books and
[11:44]they do their thing. So I think when she gets a little bit older, she'll realize what a great
[11:49]opportunity this was for all of us. Yeah. Well, what a unique way. I mean, how it's just so
[11:58]amazing that they get to think that this is how all kids grow up, right? Having this award winning
[12:03]dad is painting in the back, the house type of thing. That's amazing. So what are your hopes and dreams
[12:10]for this book? Oh, I dreamed that we all get together and really analyze what our day and our world
[12:16]looks like today and how we got here and how we go forward. And what do we need in our spirit and
[12:23]in our heart as we tackle all the issues that we all are grappling with. We say we're in the same
[12:31]boat. The planet is in the same boat. You know, and we all need to walk and come together on it.
[12:38]And this is a wonderful way to understand where we came from as a species as the human race
[12:46]and how we get to the next stop in our next position and how we get that together in a peaceful
[12:53]way. And we have all the testimony in all the examples that were laid before us on how to create
[12:59]a blueprint to get there. And so this book is a catalyst for our young folks to talk about the history,
[13:05]talk about these images that you see and where they came from and really create a wonderful
[13:12]conversation about history and our own history. Not just black folks, not just white folks,
[13:18]but all of us. This is a universal right here. And I'm so, so happy and pleased to be a part of
[13:26]a project like this. Oh, that's amazing. Well, you're so talented and your illustrations just
[13:33]completely made this book. I mean, what it is, it's just amazing. So really, really powerful and
[13:39]what a contribution. What is your next project? What do you have coming down the pike?
[13:45]Oh, and me Charles and I, and we're going to do the follow up to all because you matter. It's
[13:51]called we are and oh my goodness. I can't wait. I can't do it fast enough because I'm fighting at
[13:59]the bit. And also, I have a book that comes out in June that I both wrote and illustrated.
[14:06]And it's called a music is a rainbow. And I'm in that I'm sort of channeling the childhood of
[14:12]Quincy Jones and Maya Angelou. And I was inspired by a poem by Robert Frost. So all these
[14:21]this is the most difficult project. I piled on the biggest problem that I could ever do to try to
[14:28]make this happen. And I think I made it through it. So I'm so excited about that.
[14:35]Oh, I can't wait to see that. That sounds amazing. Wow. So what advice would you have for aspiring
[14:41]children's book authors or illustrators? The advice is to start right where you are at this very
[14:48]moment and figure out how to tell stories. Look, if you're an artist and creator, hone your crap,
[14:54]work on your crap every single day and start jiding down your ideas and storytelling and develop
[15:01]a story, develop your stories. You know, don't think about trends that are happening out there.
[15:08]Tell your story. Tell your truth. And it'll be unique. And it will be your voice. And nobody
[15:16]has a voice like you. So trust that. Love it. Wonderful. Well, Brian, thank you so much. Thanks for
[15:23]this amazing book. Thanks for chatting about it. And yeah, I can't wait to see what's next. Amazing.
[15:29]Oh, I appreciate you having me. Thank you for everything. We should overcome.
[15:33]Okay. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to
[15:39]Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[15:44]Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and
[15:50]meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures
[15:54]Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[15:59]fantastic intro and outro music.