Ariana Neumann, WHEN TIME STOPPED: A Memoir of My Father's War and What Remains
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[2:04]Ariana Dubid is the author of, When Time Stopped, A Bed War of My Father's War and What Remades.
[2:09]Ariana was born and grew up in Venezuela.
[2:12]She has a BA in History and French Literature from Tufts University, and Emmy in Spanish and Latin American Literature from New York University, and a PG-DIP in Psychology of Religion from University of London.
[2:24]She previously was involved in publishing, worked as a foreign correspondent for Venezuela as the Daily Journal, and her writing has appeared in a variety of publications, including the European, the Jewish Book Council, and the New York Times.
[2:36]She currently lives in London with her husband, three children, a Bassett Fove to Pretend, a Border Terrier, and a Rescue Mutt, when Time Stopped is her first book.
[2:45]Welcome, Ariana. Thank you so much for coming on Moms. Don't have time to read books to discuss When Time Stopped, a memoir of My Father's War and What Remains.
[2:53]Thank you, Ruby. It's great to be here with you.
[2:56]I have to tell you, I have never had a book recommended more times to me. Everyone's like, have you read this?
[3:01]Have you read this? Have you read this? Have you read this?
[3:03]That's because my mom lives in the Upper East Side, and she's been telling everybody about the book.
[3:09]So, just to cheerily, you must know some people in common. I think that's what it is. It's just my mom.
[3:14]I had a book story that my mom always orders books like my anthologies, or never just got like bestseller, you know, it was one of the top, and I was like, that was totally my mom.
[3:25]I was like, my mom is not doing any books for that book story. Anyway, I mean, I'm kidding, but kind of not. Anyway, When Time Stopped, this is like the wrong tone for this like deeply, you know, emotional, Holocaust, survival, mystery, detective work story.
[3:41]Can you tell listeners a little about what this book is about if this is the first that they're hearing about it?
[3:46]The book really, I mean, it's nonfiction, but it's really a detective story. I guess it's my detective story. When I was a little girl, I wanted to be a detective, and I wanted to solve mysteries.
[3:55]And I grew up in Venezuela in the 70s and 80s, and I guess little did I know then that the mystery I was going to solve was that of my dad.
[4:03]And it did take me quite a long time, so I didn't solve it when I was a little girl detective, but I still feel like that little girl detective.
[4:10]And the book really is about my journey trying to, I guess, fill my father's silences or just to solve the mystery of the things that he didn't tell me about.
[4:21]So it's, I guess it really is just a book about a daughter trying to figure out who her father really was and what it is that he didn't tell that little girl about his past.
[4:33]And what I uncover is quite incredible, right? So I think when we, when we come along and we look at her father's parents actually not very father's father's and mother's adults, we often realize often when it's too late that they were these whole incredible people are not just these sort of, you know, not just our mom and dad.
[4:53]And, you know, often we do so after they're gone and we just miss out on so much anyways, it turns out that I barely knew my father and my father just simply could not talk about his past and that past included a family of 34 people.
[5:09]He was, he came from a Jewish family, he was born in Prague, and when they were all deported to concentration camps around the third Reich.
[5:18]My father, I'm scolded and decided to hide and he decided to hide in plain sight when he did a really completely insane thing for 22 year old Jew wanted by the Gestapo, which is he decided he was going to go to Berlin.
[5:33]And, you know, hide or not hide at all to pretend to be someone else and work in a Nazi factory for two years.
[5:39]So that's what I uncovered. So I guess the book is about, it's really about my father and his family, but it's also a little bit about my journey discovering all this and traveling through time to recover my lost family and get to know my dad.
[5:53]My gosh. Well, your story is so powerful and the way you write is so amazing. You know, you're immediately drawn in and you talk in the book about the first time when you discover it and you tell your mom that you discovered like his identity card, which of course you put in the book, which is great.
[6:09]I love all the visuals by the way so many books don't have these and like the introduction of all the elements and the objects and the cards and photos.
[6:16]It's amazing because this type of history is like, you know, you have to share all these.
[6:21]I don't mean and publishers often as you're doing your own, you know, you're starting from publishing house publishers don't like pictures right because it increases the cost and I just think sometimes when you're doing this kind of stuff, it's so important to have to have the visuals.
[6:38]Picture what people look like and what documents look like and what, you know, the little scrap of paper that can look so simple can have, you know, so much meaning in someone's life.
[6:47]Anyway, sorry.
[6:48]No, don't say sorry. I love your, you're right. I want to talk about all this stuff.
[6:52]No, I have this memoir coming out actually and I've been asking my publisher, but now you're inspiring me to ask her again. So sorry Carmen, but you know, in my memory, I talk about all these people who have passed away who I loved.
[7:02]And I really want their pictures in there because you can, it's one thing to describe them, but it's, I don't know. It's like a, that then it becomes like a memorial of sorts.
[7:11]Anyway, whatever.
[7:12]Anyway, I just wanted to read this one paragraph, not that just as a show of your writing and everything when you told your mom and you said, you know,
[7:19]I'm happy you're saying to your mom, he is pretending I have proof he's not Hans his real name is.
[7:24]Yeah, and maybe mommy he wasn't born on February 9th he's lying he's an imposter.
[7:28]I don't remember anything else from that day, the identity card with the stamp of Hitler and its photograph of my father jolted me to a sharp and unexpected focus.
[7:36]It brought to the fore every other tiny fissure in my understanding.
[7:40]The school silences and unanswered questions that had been invisible before.
[7:44]It was then that I first sense and hidden beneath my father's strengths and triumphs were shadows cast by nameless horrors.
[7:50]They were terrible. They had to remain unuttered. The averted eyes, the pause is a second too long, issuing a reminiscence had until then passed mostly unnoticed finding the photograph in the box was the pivot.
[8:01]It marks here one more sense and mark the exact moment when the until spaces that cracks in the narrative emerged.
[8:08]Oh my gosh, so good.
[8:10]Anyways, it's that was really the moment for me right that was I think that was the moment where you know when you grow up as a kid you just presume whatever is around you is normal right and then all of a sudden you realize that actually that wasn't normal not everybody had a dad who had to pretend to be someone else.
[8:27]Okay, so you found your father's card you realize everything was not as it seemed you decided to go on this hunt later for all the truth.
[8:39]And you use all your detective skills and find out these incredible stories one of which the essay wrote for the Jewish Council about the ring with the Z on it. Oh my gosh.
[8:51]And you actually have it on. Wow. That story was amazing. I didn't know that anybody had ever been able to sneak in and then get out again.
[9:00]It's like unthinkable to me that you could get into a camp like deliver goods. I also didn't even realize that there could be effective enough communication that they knew what the people needed even with the hair dye to make your who was at your grandfot.
[9:16]And all of that I mean that story is amazing.
[9:20]Well, I think we know very little I mean we know very little we I thought I knew about the Holocaust and then as I started researching you realize that there were all these things that actually were possible you didn't know and it did require enormous amounts of courage right so this woman who was married to my uncle.
[9:37]When she discovers that my grandmother is in to resinshot and to resinshot was a particular type of camp. So it was a ghetto it wasn't like Auschwitz Auschwitz which was a murder camp so maybe it was a little bit easier to again get in and out of there it was also originally a fortress so it didn't have the sort of barbed wire.
[9:54]It had just guards and you know I mean and obviously these camps.
[10:00]were all run by elders, by Jewish elders. And they had contacts in the outside. So they could,
[10:07]I mean, you, you couldn't really communicate with the prisoners, but you could have some ideas to
[10:11]what it was that people needed. And if you had white hair, the Nazis would consider you old.
[10:17]And if they considered you old, they thought you were useless. And if you were useless,
[10:21]then you might as well be dead. So my grandfather knew that he had to use hair dye because
[10:27]actually every single man in my family has, by the time they're 30, they have white hair.
[10:31]Actually, that includes my husband, who's obviously, maybe it's just a sort of, anyways,
[10:37]we're maybe we're genetically attracted to him. Maybe you need some DNA tests on your husband
[10:42]or say, I don't know. That's all I need. So anyway, so my grandfather in 1943 in
[10:51]to Residence Garden knew that he needed hair dye because he had white hair. He was in his early 50s.
[10:57]And he was a really strong man. But he, you know, he looked old and he was more nourished.
[11:03]He would be sent to Auschwitz. And he didn't want that. So there's this remarkable woman who's
[11:09]a Gentile. So she's not Jewish. And she decides that she's going to sneak into the camp. And
[11:16]actually, at that, the first time she sneaks in, she goes in to see my grandmother. So it's 1943,
[11:22]my grandmother had, it's August. They've just realized that my grandmother hasn't been sent to a
[11:27]camp called Sobibor, which is where they, they thought she had been sent. And it was a good thing
[11:32]that she wasn't sent because that transport was all short on arrival. But my grandmother fainted
[11:38]in the transport. And I, ironically, that sort of saved her life for a little bit because she fainted,
[11:43]they carried her off the train. And they left her into residence, don't. So a few months later,
[11:47]my family get news that she is in there. And this remarkable woman, she's called Stenka. And she's
[11:55]beautiful and strong and bold. And she's a lawyer. And she drives her on car. And she's,
[12:01]she's just this fabulous soul. And I have never met her, but I met her daughter who's equally
[12:05]wonderful. Anyway, Stenka sneaks into to residence. She sows at the yellow star on her coat. And
[12:13]figures out a way to do it. She joins the people that we're working in the fields
[12:19]in the morning. And then when they come in for their sort of measly soup at lunchtime, she walks
[12:24]into the camp with them finds my grandmother and spends a few, you know, minutes with her,
[12:30]brings her some, a shawl and brings her some supplies and brings her actually what you really,
[12:34]really needed, which was hope. And I'm super lucky that she then Stenka sets up a system of
[12:41]contraband. So I have letters from my grandmother from the camp describing this moment when Stenka
[12:45]sneaks in when she just looks up. And after three months of just being just incredibly depressed
[12:51]because she finds herself in these absurd horrendous circumstances, she sees her beautiful daughter
[12:57]and all who's come over to, you know, just to show her how much she loves her really. And that
[13:01]gives her this hope that then is sort of you I find throughout all the letters, this sort of
[13:07]hope that it's all going to be okay, that she's going to be reunited with those that she loves.
[13:11]And then Stenka again sneaks into the camp in 1944 to bring by then they can find hair dye
[13:18]because it was the war and it was difficult to find things. But she brings shoe polish for my
[13:23]grandfather because the system of contraband was failing as you know, not not not everything
[13:29]works perfectly all the time, especially in wars. And Stenka figures that if she doesn't take it
[13:34]in herself, my grandfather's not going to get his hair darkened. So she sneaks in again.
[13:40]So she's this incredible character to me. She's actually the hero of the book because you know,
[13:44]my father and all my family, they didn't have a choice. They either went or they chose to, you know,
[13:51]stay outside and be brave maybe, but it was to say their own skin. But it's this incredible woman
[13:58]who had a choice, right? And she could have turned away. She could have said, she would have chosen
[14:02]a much easier life. I mean, she was beautiful. She was wealthy. She was, you know, she had
[14:08]the whole prog at her feet and she chose to marry my uncle who was a shy, lovely Jewish boy,
[14:15]you know, and she chose to marry him in 1939. Not that many people were doing that, right?
[14:20]Right.
[14:20]Wow. So you, I mean, and you're literally wearing for people listening, you're wearing the ring
[14:28]that your grandfather went ends up hammering out himself and doing as a, as a thank you note,
[14:33]essentially the most beautiful thank you note in the history of the world, perhaps.
[14:37]It's incredible, right? It's because it's a piece of copper and it's the only thing you could get
[14:40]his hands on. And my grandfather, I mean, people listening won't be able to see it. It's, it's
[14:46]not necessarily the most beautiful thing in the world when you look at it. But I think when you
[14:50]hear the story behind it and you hear that it's, it's really a way of saying thank you to
[14:56]this woman who was so brave that she kept them alive for this long. It, it requires a whole new
[15:02]beauty to it, right? That's it. So it was fashioned by hand. It was a copper pipe. It was probably
[15:07]a pipe that was meant destined for plumbing. So it's really not a fine thing. It's not made of silver
[15:12]or gold, but he made it with his own hands. And it's the only thing I have of his, the only
[15:17]thing that I have that he, you know, aside from the letter, it's really, but it's the only object
[15:22]that I have that I can hold and that I can wear around my neck that my grandfather who I never met
[15:27]actually not only touched but made. So I, you know, sometimes like, but obviously because I'm
[15:33]chatting to you, but also it's, you know, it's a tricky day today because we have to let go of
[15:37]dog and make me sound. So whenever I need a little bit of extra strength and a little bit of
[15:42]grounding and I'm, you know, don't want to feel sorry for myself or I feel like I need a,
[15:46]a little bit of an extra boost that comes from the people that came before you. I wear the ring
[15:52]and it, you know, it's a bit like those rings that give you superpowers that you read up about
[15:58]in comic books, right? My, my son's obsessed with marble and all these superheroes. And, you know,
[16:04]it's, it's a little bit like that. It's, it's a ring that gives me superpowers. So when I'm wearing it,
[16:09]I feel like I can, I can fly. Oh, that's so beautiful. Because it's just, it's almost unbelievable
[16:17]that you can have that object in your possession that it's just the likelihood of it happening is so
[16:25]slim. It's like a total miracle, right? It's a miracle. I know, but there were so many
[16:31]miracles in the story. You know, and it started, it didn't start off as a book. It started
[16:35]as a book. So it started off, I mean, it just all started as a very personal journey of this,
[16:42]of discovery. I wanted to solve the mystery of my dad. And I also finally, when he died,
[16:46]because he never spoke about this, but when he died and left me this box with the same ID card
[16:51]that I found as a child, I figured it was his way of saying, okay, you have permission.
[16:57]He never really, I think, wanted to overwhelm me with the stories or, I mean, overwhelm me as,
[17:01]but you know, I think he felt there were maybe a little dark, but he left them there so that I could
[17:07]piece it all together. So how does this affect? Like, when you spent all this time, like, well,
[17:13]first of all, how long did this journey take you to discover everything? And so, you know, I,
[17:19]obviously I found the ID program as nine. I then, you know, there were little moments throughout my
[17:24]life in my 20s where I got little snippets of the story, but very, very few. And it wasn't until
[17:30]my father died in 2001, that I finally felt I had permission and I had a bunch of documents.
[17:36]And I was just having kids, right? So my father died three weeks before my eldest son was born.
[17:42]And I came here by the way, you cremated your father on 9-11, the day of the tax.
[17:46]Oh my gosh. And I had my stepdad in New York, and he worked at Merrill Lynch right in front
[17:53]of the, it was, it was a horrific day for so many people. And I'm lucky that my stepdad is
[18:00]actually still with us. So, but it was, it's just incredible. But I felt in 2001 that I finally had
[18:06]permission, but it was completely the wrong time, right? So I was, I was having kids. I thought
[18:10]I had to be positive. You know, you can't really sort of, I don't know, research the Holocaust,
[18:15]and then go upstairs and read sort of the guffalo to your kids, right? I mean, maybe some people
[18:22]can't, but I felt, I felt I couldn't. I felt that burst into tears. And then slowly at the same time
[18:27]because I was having children, I wanted to know where I came from and what it was that I needed
[18:30]to pass on to them, right? And if I don't know where I come from, how do I know? Well, I don't
[18:38]know where I want to go. And how do I know what it is that I need to, you know, just tell my children,
[18:43]right? So slowly slowly, I started becoming a little bolder and asking more questions. And it
[18:49]wasn't really until about 2010, 2009, 10 that I really start asking more questions that I get
[18:57]letters translated that I get documents translated. So the whole thing probably takes me about
[19:03]10 years, but it doesn't become a book until 2017. And actually it becomes a book because I
[19:09]start telling these stories as a way of coping with all the, I guess all the sadness,
[19:14]but also as a way of keeping these people, these beautiful people that help my family,
[19:18]and these beautiful people that were my family that I couldn't meet as a way of keeping them alive.
[19:24]So I start telling everyone I meet, right, that this whole sort of process. And I end up telling
[19:31]this man, it was January, the second it was 2017. And they, it was someone that had met my father
[19:36]and he was 89 at the time. And we were at a restaurant in the Upper East Side called Antonucci's,
[19:42]which is this lovely Italian restaurant. And I, you know, this 89 year old man said it has to be a book
[19:48]and I said, yeah, whatever, you know, my husband always says it has to be a movie. And he said,
[19:53]no, it really has to be a book. And actually that started a whole process where I ended up
[19:57]speaking to a scout who lives in Connecticut.
[20:00]put me in touch with my agent who was in London
[20:04]and who said, this is an incredible story.
[20:07]Have you ever written anything?
[20:08]And I said, yeah, I know when I was in my 20s,
[20:10]I wanted to be a writer and I've written a few essays,
[20:12]but they're not really good enough that, you know,
[20:15]and she said, well, to show them to me.
[20:16]And that's how it became a book.
[20:18]And, you know, so pretty quickly after I was a proposal
[20:22]and then I had written about 70 pages
[20:24]and then Scribner above it.
[20:25]So it's completely surreal for the book, right?
[20:28]I mean, to me, it's completely surreal
[20:30]that it's the book.
[20:31]I still pinch myself because it didn't start off
[20:33]it's life like that.
[20:34]But it's allowed me to do what I always wanted to do,
[20:38]which was being detective and a writer.
[20:39]So there you go.
[20:42]Do you ever feel like you want to help other families?
[20:45]Like has this started in interest?
[20:47]Yes, I mean, it's interesting.
[20:49]I think one of the things I've been,
[20:52]as I've volunteered, I still have to go
[20:54]and interview people at the Association of Jewish Refugees
[20:57]in England.
[20:58]And a lot of them actually don't tell their stories
[21:02]when they're in their 50s and 60s and 70s.
[21:05]And it's only when they're older
[21:06]and they find a little bit perhaps a little bit more,
[21:10]I don't know what is, whether it's time or whether it,
[21:12]they just think, okay, faced with death,
[21:15]what am I leaving behind,
[21:16]that they start telling these stories.
[21:20]So the Association of Jewish Refugees
[21:23]provide a way, it's actually called my story
[21:25]and these people, these political survivors
[21:28]or at least Jewish refugees can actually tell their stories.
[21:31]So I'm really looking forward to doing that.
[21:34]I've got, I get a lot of letters of people saying,
[21:37]can you help me, how did you structure it?
[21:39]How did you do it?
[21:40]And I love doing that.
[21:41]And I love solving mysteries.
[21:43]So it's, yeah, I'm not sure I'm gonna become a genealogist,
[21:47]really.
[21:48]I'd like to become a sort of storyteller
[21:50]and a detective or keep on being a detective.
[21:53]But yes, no, absolutely.
[21:54]It's helped me realize that, you know, that I love writing
[21:58]and I love writing not so much.
[22:00]Well, I love writing,
[22:01]but I love writing, but I never thought it was good enough.
[22:04]And all of a sudden, I realized that it's not so much
[22:06]about whether the writing is good enough.
[22:08]It's about the stories that you tell.
[22:10]And it's about the importance of the stories
[22:13]or the connection that, you know,
[22:15]the reader feels with the stories.
[22:18]Well, your writing is also really amazing.
[22:20]But the combination of a great stories to tell
[22:24]and telling it well.
[22:25]I mean, that's why it's like hard to put down, you know,
[22:28]it's engrossing and amazing.
[22:30]And oh my gosh, the thing that keeps hitting me over and over
[22:34]is just like how many stories like this there are.
[22:39]Right.
[22:40]Sometimes when you just, when I try to wrap my head
[22:41]and I've read a lot of Holocaust stuff over the years
[22:44]and many, many, many books about it.
[22:46]And I, it never ceases to inspire me.
[22:50]Like what the links people will go to for the people
[22:52]that they love and the strength that they have inside them.
[22:55]Like what you said about like the magic part of the ring.
[22:57]It's like really, I'm like, it was hard for me
[23:00]to have a birthday party for my son last night
[23:01]or you kidding me, you know, seriously.
[23:03]Like, you know, when we get all the things that go on,
[23:07]all the things, you know, I don't know.
[23:09]It just put it helps but things in perspective.
[23:11]Let me just say it that way.
[23:13]Well, and there are some incredible stories out there.
[23:15]And the other thing that I've realized now
[23:17]because I've been doing research on a second book
[23:18]is how little we know of those stories
[23:21]and how the stories that we're told have so much to do
[23:25]with, you know, with awake country still histories, for example.
[23:28]And when you have stories that span different countries,
[23:31]often they get untold because it's not,
[23:33]if it's not an American story, it doesn't get tall
[23:35]in American history.
[23:36]And if it's not a German story, it doesn't get torn.
[23:38]So often you lose these stories
[23:41]because they're not in the sort of,
[23:42]in the country's narrative or in the family's narrative
[23:45]or, you know, anyways, so there's so much out there.
[23:48]I think we all have incredible stories to tell, right?
[23:50]I think, I think we all, if you look back at our family,
[23:53]especially the generation, right?
[23:55]The people that grew up and lived through the 20th century
[23:58]is there was so much, so, so, such tumult,
[24:01]it's such, such opportunity to be brave and to be heroes,
[24:04]right, to be heroic, that I think we really need to remember
[24:08]to ask our parents and our grandparents
[24:11]and our great grandparents that are still around
[24:13]to share a little bit of that with us
[24:15]because if we don't, you know,
[24:17]often they don't, it's sort of tough
[24:19]to bring up a holocaust in the middle of, you know,
[24:21]Sunday lunch, right, with your grandchildren.
[24:24]So I think we just need to give older people permission
[24:27]to share those incredible stories
[24:29]which are so inspiring.
[24:30]It's too good.
[24:32]Wait, what is your next, what is your next book?
[24:34]Oh, I don't know, I'm sort of torn actually.
[24:37]I've been doing a lot of research on this incredible story
[24:40]of refugees that gets put in a boat,
[24:43]but I'm not, I need to figure out how to handle it.
[24:45]So that might be book three,
[24:46]but I've been researching a lot on it
[24:48]and it's sort of, it's tied in,
[24:50]it's about how we treat the other
[24:53]or who we perceive as the other
[24:55]when in reality actually that, you know,
[24:56]everyone is the same, right, there is no other.
[24:59]That's beautiful.
[25:00]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[25:03]It seems like such a simplistic question
[25:04]after all of this like meaning of life,
[25:08]discussion and like survival and whatever you know,
[25:10]talking about like craft and like, you know,
[25:13]quick tips for writers, but I don't know.
[25:15]Believing yourself.
[25:16]I think you write, you have to write,
[25:18]the first thing I would say is just believe in yourself
[25:21]and don't get, you know, I have all these degrees
[25:24]in literature and I would read, you know,
[25:26]but I did a lot of 19th century and I read buzzes,
[25:29]I can, you know, then I read lots of sort of 20th century
[25:31]French writers, I read duress and Magu no,
[25:33]and I just think, no way, am I ever gonna write like that?
[25:36]And I'm right, I'm never gonna write like that,
[25:38]but it doesn't matter, I still have to write.
[25:40]So just believe in yourself and do it.
[25:43]I mean, I didn't write my first book until I was in my mid 40s
[25:46]and I wanted to write a lot more on my middle child
[25:49]who is studying English is a writer.
[25:53]Actually, she's, she's, and she's,
[25:54]ever since she was a little girl, she wanted to write.
[25:56]So I tell her, listen, is really tough to make a living
[25:59]from writing, but it doesn't matter, just write.
[26:01]And you know, do what you love, believe in yourself.
[26:04]It doesn't matter if you get nose and nose and nose,
[26:07]keep on doing it.
[26:08]And just write from the heart.
[26:10]I think if you write from the heart and you're honest
[26:12]in your writing, then, you know, you connect to readers
[26:16]and good things happen at some stage, right?
[26:19]You just have to be patient and keep on writing.
[26:21]And again, you know, keep on believing in yourself
[26:24]when even when other people don't.
[26:27]Thank you, Ariana.
[26:28]I know you have so much going on today.
[26:30]So many different emotional stressors
[26:32]and every part of your life.
[26:33]So thank you for taking the time to go back in history
[26:36]and discuss this book and your family and everything
[26:40]because once again, now it's inspired,
[26:42]it's inspiring more people.
[26:43]It's amazing just to keep it going.
[26:45]And I don't know, it's really, really special.
[26:48]So thank you.
[26:49]Thank you so much to be, it's been a huge joy.
[26:52]Okay, thanks, take care.
[26:53]Thanks, bye-bye.
[26:55]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[26:58]to Read Books.
[26:59]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens
[27:02]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:04]Also sign up for my newsletter
[27:05]at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club
[27:08]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[27:11]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[27:14]for the Sound Editing.
[27:15]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[27:17]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.